#104: Behind the Bima - Rabbi Yitzchak Berkovits

From Boca Raton Florida, Rabbis Ephraim Goldberg, Philip Moskowitz, and Josh Brody are taking you behind the Bema. The BRS Rabbis schmooze about contemporary issues and talk to special guests who give a behind-the-scenes look at how they got to where they are and what keeps them going. Welcome to Behind the Bema. Good evening. It is Wednesday evening. I'm Rabbi Ephraim Goldberg with a special edition of Behind the Bema. I had the incredible privilege of being in Israel recently and sitting down with Rabbi Yitzchok Berkowitz. Rabbi Berkowitz is an extraordinary individual and you know, it's very much on our minds right now, this spike, this rise of anti-Semitism not only around the world and not only even in the United States of America, which for a long time we were lulled into the false belief that we were protected and immune. We've seen people be beaten in the streets. We've seen famous people and most recently Kyrie Irving, NBA stars, rappers who are unabashedly and with no shame promoting, tweeting, defending, doubling down on anti-Semitic statements and rhetoric. And it's against that backdrop that we have to continue to write raise our voice and confront and battle it. But also how refreshing it is to have conversations like the one I was privileged to have with Rabbi Berkowitz, a a beacon of light and a call and a charge to improve the world with a message of hope, a message of light, a message of blessing, the Jewish responsibility to transform the world for the good. And as much as we have to focus on what's going wrong in the sense of the anti-Semitism, we have to focus on what could be going right, caring about our brothers and sisters around the world and feeling that responsibility for outreach. And in many ways that is our response to be that bright light and to become a people and live such a lifestyle that others are just attracted and drawn who will dismiss and who will stand up and confront those voices of of anti-semitism. Reb Berkowitz is a American-born enormous talmid chacham, he's a huge posek, he's a big halachic decider for the Anglo-Jewish community in Israel and around the world. He spent 16 years as the mashgiach of Aish HaTorah before he left to start his own kollel in 2001. He founded the Jerusalem Kollel, which is a intense kollel experience but with an eye towards preparing the graduates who will go out and be involved in kiruv and outreach around the world. In 2019, he was appointed as the Rosh Yeshiva of Yeshivas Aish HaTorah in Yerushalayim. He's also the Rosh Kollel of an international network of evening kollel kollelim and an expert in bein adam l'chavero, the relationship, the laws that govern and that regulate our interpersonal relationships between one and the other. He'll He'll see his simchas hachaim, his joy for life, what a special person he is, and I was really excited and privileged to be able to have the opportunity for this conversation in this special edition of Behind the Bima. So, without any further, please enjoy the great Harav Yitzchak Berkowitz, shlita. It's a tremendous chassidus of the Rosh Yeshiva to have the opportunity to have this conversation and share it with the world and to be able to drink from the fountain and learn from the wisdom of the Rosh Yeshiva. I have tremendous affection and gratitude to Aish HaTorah. When I was in Yeshiva, there was a kiruv training program that came to Academy of the Jewish Year Yeshiva. I spent the summer as a madrich on Discovery, and even today, Aish very graciously continues to print my articles on the website. So, I have tremendous uh connection and and uh closeness, and very, very grateful to the Rosh Yeshiva for his time. It's great having you here. And yeah, and it's also great having you on aish.com. Thank you. Thanks. So, I have to ask with this backdrop, we're sitting overlooking Har HaBayit, so we're looking at the Kotel in this incredibly sacred spot. What an incredible time that we live in, what a bracha it is to be under the Rosh Yeshiva's parents were Holocaust survivors. And does the Rosh Yeshiva ever We're in this office looking over this view thinking about where the Rosh Yeshiva lives and and the Yeshiva, just to pinch ourselves in the context of Jewish history with what the Rosh Yeshiva's parents endured, lived through, and survived. And now in contrast to be sitting in Yerushalayim, overlooking our bias, sitting and learning Torah, spreading the message around the world, it must be overwhelming. It is overwhelming. I never take it for granted. I come in every morning first I look to see if the mosque is still there. No, but I come in every morning and just the feeling of where I am. Um I ask myself, would I believe that I'd be here someday? And the truth is my answer is yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. We grew up dreaming. We grew up dreaming. Um but it's also the place of the Korban. It's the place of the Korban and that that also that also has to be and we understand that the Korban although it is more pronounced here than anywhere else, but what the Korban is really all about is our brethren everywhere. And yes, every morning I walk in I feel my home. I feel my home. Feel where it is on this hill. Where is home on this hill? You know, although it's beautiful here, the office is beautiful, the building is beautiful, the old building is beautiful. You know, the Kotel Plaza is beautiful. Um although it's beautiful, it's really impressive. You know, it's always to be here. You know, our home is on this hill. This hill. And that's on the other side of the coin, that maybe we don't feel often enough. We see the beauty and and coming in today we heard the music, maybe there's a simcha being celebrated in the restaurants and there's such a feeling of vibrancy and life, but but the main thing is missing. And the main thing that's not there, which which leads me to the next question. So, the summer I spent here and it with with Reb Aaron with the Rosh Yeshiva at the time and he imposed on me and like all others, the spiritual holocaust happening at a rate faster than Hitler and our enemies ever could have dreamed. I was uh I was uh young Yeshiva bocher. I didn't want to go to the places they were sending to go to recruiting for for Discovery program at the time and he called me in and he asked me would if a woman were extending her hand to save her from the train to Auschwitz, would you not pull her off? Call Yeshiva needs you to go out. And and the intermarriage rate I don't have to tell the Yeshiva. Where we live in Boca Raton, Florida, there's 140,000 Jews. Palm Beach County has a quarter of a million Jews. 92% of them are unaffiliated. The chlav, not connected, not involved. The demographic study you were affiliated if you work out at a JCC. And the chlav still with that, 92% are unaffiliated. That's the level of assimilation, of intermarriage. That's what's going on around us. So, I I don't believe this. I'm asking a question that I I don't believe, but I want to understand Yeshiva's formulation because it's important for us. Why not double down on the shomer Torah um that says the Orthodox, the observant Torah community, and write off write off the ear of Rav. Why not say that this is our generation's This is a tragedy. It's a loss. It's overwhelming. But we're not making headway. We're not moving the needle. We're not stemming the tide. So, instead, let's put our resources, let's put our money, our manpower, our wisdom, our time, and dedicate it all to ensuring the observant community we keep everybody in. Why care about outreach? Why be involved in kiruv? Why be connected or feel responsible for the fate of the rest of the Jewish people which feels in many ways like a sinking ship? Whom brothers are you going to give up on? And these are These are brothers or sisters. You were giving up on them. They were going to be lost because of our inaction. Cuz we haven't figured it out yet. Cuz we haven't learned how to reach How come? I'll tell you. I've seen I've seen some work. There was some Russian Shiva that would tell me just sit and learn and that'll be my sphere in the world. In a way that it's going to it's going to change everybody and of course I mean if you don't believe that you're not the cause. Of course that's true. Nevertheless Nevertheless, when it comes to Sholom there's someone in their family a kid that's struggling or a kid that's past struggling we get the phone call, you got to take him in. But he's not suitable for our program. But you have to take him in. You have to save him. Ah. So he's your family and everybody else is not. But that I don't understand. Then we'll call you slow. It's our brothers. And then we give up. What, it's their fault? They did something wrong. We were we were fortunate. We're fortunate. So because of that we just forget that guy? We we got to try. You know, if not if not for the not for the never been in the never been thousands of families that became full there. So now it's more difficult, it's different. It was no different then. Just there was someone who thought creatively. And now what he taught us doesn't work in in those ways. We got to find new ways of reaching people. But what do we do? It's not like nothing's working. It's just the numbers are colossal. But we have to find ways of reaching so many more people. But we're not going to give up. I give up with brothers. So how do we allocate our resources and our time? How much should we invest in in that because it's not up to professionals alone. And I know that's a big H program, project inspire. But if we rely only on our rabbonim, machonchim, like kodesh, and kiruv professionals, we'll never move that needle. So, for the average person out there who is focused on getting to the end of the day, paying the yeshiva tuition, the cost of kosher food, trying to be a ben aliya or ben Torah in a world where there's a lot of forces against them, and is just trying to get to the end of the day with a work dinner and a living, learned a little Torah, made it to minyan, were a good mother, father, husband, wife, how much time should they be giving? How far should they be? How do they divide their life to care about what's happening outside them? Is it terrible to have Shabbos guests? Is it terrible to invite a business associate who isn't from here for Shabbos? Is it so terrible to to be a sacrifice? So, I know people say, "Who am I? I'm not a common my Shabbos table isn't going to do it." Any Shabbos table can. We take so much of what we do for granted. But, I just the Shabbos You don't have to give big sermons. A Shabbos table, a family sitting together, singing zmiros, the family sitting together, having at least part of the part of the conversation is intelligent. Certainly not what the conversation at their home sounds like. Where little kids are allowed The kid comes up with the parsha sheet. You know what that You know what I mean by that? What that does? The things we take for granted. Our Shabbos table is is a world they've never seen. Befriend them. Befriend these people. What is like, you don't know anybody not from here? It doesn't It doesn't mean investing so much of your time. And by the way, the best way to get people to do it is to get them to do it. One good experience, and they're going to want more and more. We find that every time. You can You can darshen to people from morning to night about the importance of kiruv. Just get them one pair and another. Get them to try it once. They see how they can affect another person's life. They see how I didn't even do anything. It was so exciting. And someone gets pushed back and says, you know, I'm trying to raise my children a certain way. I'm trying to maintain a certain insulin at home. There are a lot of forces out there, secular culture and and aggressiveness and I don't want that my kids exposed. So, what would the Rosh Yeshiva say to such a person who says, we're trying to create something insular. We don't need to penetrate it by outside forces. Those days are over. The world has gotten too small. It infiltrates everywhere. The kids are exposed to everything. Let's not kid ourselves. In the old days they used to say, why is it the holiness of holiness goes through all the different stages you can have in the world, all the different opportunities he presents us with? Why does he have to tell us that? So, they used to say better that you hear it from the holiness of holiness than somewhere else. And it's the same thing here. If it's within the context of home of people who are trying to understand things about Yiddishkeit, it's in your home on your turf and you're explaining things to them. It's going to do so much better for your kids than when they're getting it elsewhere. And the Rosh Yeshiva's all night as Rosh Yeshiva had to sacrifice in that sense. Rosh Yeshiva today is a preeminent posek in in Eretz Yisrael and around the world. A Rosh Yeshiva, a rav, a talmid katan and and yet and and to achieve that level to be such a world-class posek talmid chacham, a person must certainly retreat and immerse themselves in Torah. And yet the Rosh Yeshiva has obviously been able to invest in and has given time to kiruv. Other sacrifices the Rosh Yeshiva had to make in his own learning in order to also care about klal Yisrael. Of course, if I were learning day and night it would be different. I would I would be a different person. There's no question. Um I'm not so unhappy with the person I've become um only because I I really feel a sense of responsibility. Um in terms of my own family, we had when my kids were growing up, we had all kinds of guests. Um all kinds of guests. And I don't think it did any damage. If anything, uh uh I think it was very good for them. I think it was very very healthy for them. It was very very healthy for them. I would see, you know, I would see in the different encounters that we had at the table, the kids were always listening so carefully. When do you get to discuss and know what your kids are doing? I don't know about you, but your kids come back and you're talking What age are you talking with them? See, you have somebody that's in your home asking questions, you're giving them intelligent answers, and your kids are listening. They're getting a feel of the community otherwise. They're also seeing that non-frum people are uh uh A kid growing up really feels like the street has so much to offer. But what kind of good are they I don't know what they're doing out there, you know, I'm a miner. I work the mines. I don't want to burn diamonds. I can't do all the good things that the world has to offer. You see someone sitting at the table that comes from that world that has a lot to offer. For some reason, he takes interest in what we are doing. That means there must be something special about us. And especially as people are becoming more and more frum, it does so much for the kids. They they get to appreciate what we have. So So to pivot from the hurban of what's going on, as much as there's positive in the world that we focus on that, and Rosh Yeshiva is a tremendous achayan, and he really is a person who focuses on positivity. But that hurban that is the the world is is very um disturbing away from our Christ. Within our own Torah community, I I can't speak show, but in America, there's a struggle. You know, on the one hand, we have the issue of outreach. On the other hand, we have a challenge of retention. We have issue the world is so much smaller and it's so much more available and it's so much more open and people are exploring and they're curious or they're turned off or they've been traumatized and and they're they're taking they're making other choices. The What would the Rosh Yeshiva say to parents who have a child who's choosing a different derech, who's off the derech, off their derech, off our derech? What what kind of approach should those parents take in terms of the other siblings in the family and in terms of giving that child space, nevertheless taking pride, showing love or particularly if it's a young age when you get a sense that it could be heading there, do you double down, do you become stricter, do you become more careful? How do we deal with that challenge? This is not a theological question, it's a strategic one. Um I haven't seen that coming down on the kids does anything other than make them run. Um I remember there was a time in our neighborhood so many of our community it was a whole of kids who were from these families that were on their way out. Some were already Mekhalei Shabbos and were smoking on Shabbos. They they hung out together but they were not highly dropped out of Yeshiva, doubted them. Uh it was pretty bad and everybody went to get advice from whoever it is they turned to. This one went um to the kosher people, this one went to our shop and and this one went to a child psychologist and this one went to a family psychologist. Everybody went and they all got the same exact answer. The shop put it Ahava without unconditional love, period. Mm. Everybody did it. Every one of those kids is from. Wow. Every one of those kids is from. They all came back. Mm. So unconditional love for that child. Unconditional love. But how does a parent know, particularly when they're young, if the child's made that choice already? So recently somebody just asked me in America it was a little girl holding Halloween and and they have a child who's struggling or challenged a group of friends and wanted to dress up and go around. The parent is devastated. On the other hand, for that child of the internal, be no to that, then this child will continue to slippery slope down. So, there are practical strategic questions with each child. Experience has shown that you work with them, not against them. I'm afraid so many of the things that parents do not want to allow the kids to get away with. It's not so much a matter of they feel that this is harmful to the kid, but they find it embarrassing. In other words, I find that parents will allow kids to get away with a lot more as long as it's not outward. As long as no one else is going to know. You know, you can do what you want in the house, but don't go and dress out to outdoors in a way that people realize you're straight. If if what you're dealing with is the parents' own pride, shame, or whatever, there's no excuse for that. If your image in the community is more important to you than your kids, there's something wrong with you. And I don't blame your kids for rebelling. Um but if if what you're talking about is really a feeling that the kid doesn't have, you know, he's just not connecting to He's not connecting to his neshama. Yeah, there's something you can do to get him connected. Work with him. Just You can't just say no, no, no everything, but you've got to make things You've got to make things exciting. And the word encouragement is is unconditional love. Unconditional is love, and then on top of that Yeah, unconditional love. The whole chinuch starts before you before the kids start having verbal problems. Kids that have been brought up in a happy home, kids that have been brought up in a home where where you love doing mitzvahs, where everyone loves doing mitzvahs. You grow up in a home where there was always kvetching and complaining about how difficult things are. So, what do you expect him to get? That's the message he's hearing all the time. Right. And and zooming out the lens of chinuch in general, not just a child who's who's challenged or struggling with the davening, but every child who davening is a challenge for everybody. So, how much do you force open the siddur to daven? Did you daven with them and show them next to you and keep pointing the siddur? Or no, the child's going to daven eventually if they see you are a model of davening. So, give them space, and if they don't daven, that's their loss, that's their mistake, that's their growing pain. There's this famous uh this famous is all about the hashemish. When they have when you have a davening issue your kid is next to you and they're daydreaming. Should you keep reminding him to look into the siddur? And the hashemish used to say, he said that if you daven, that's one thing. Your kid will see you davening. If you stand and daven and point at them, so he the way he put it was, "Don't shimu show your shimu in the davening." Shimu is what they see in there. If they see you davening, they're going to daven. If they see you mumuling during davening, then they're going to learn to mumul during davening. Mhm. The fact that you're teaching them they're supposed to daven, that's mumul. The don't shimu show, what they're going to get from the example is not shimu. Stand your davening davening. And then but your kids learn to daven from you. So, even if even at home, they're not getting out of bed, they're not opening that siddur. The daughter is, let's say, they don't open that siddur. Time goes on, the time goes on. exciting for them. First thing you do is that they should know what they're doing. Get them used to I I I I always say the first thing you got to do is to give them the rishus. Teach your kids to talk to Hashem. Get them used to talking to Hashem. Let them have their own conversation with him. You also have to teach them that there are no rules. Don't have screen. Don't have screen in shul. Where did I get that from? Every kid has a phone. Don't have an iPhone in shul. Stuff like that. We never had a phone in shul in the old days. Who told us not to see shul? Yeah, yeah. kids have to know you tell the truth with our children. Share your feelings about him with him. Share your frustrations about life with him. Know that there's an address. Then we can talk about God with him. But if you you don't know that there's someone to talk to if you never had the experience of talking about Hashem. So, what's Hashem anyway? Original? Why should anyone feel alone then? And then there are shidduch comes from our Yeshiva background. So, shidduch feel that in the more Litvish Yeshiva than the traditional Yeshiva. We don't talk enough about Hashem. So focused on the Gemara, Rashi, Tosafot, and Rambam, and and Halakha. You one can make it in America, particularly in a more day school system. One can make it through an entire entire Jewish education, hundreds of thousands of dollars, and in the end know a lot of information, but never have a relationship. They not even know that he's there. Know not feel that he loves you or you're supposed to love him. You never made it to the party. He's not there. I I I don't afraid of teaching that. I don't know. I don't get it. I went to the Litvish system. My mother talked to me she rebelled against the family. She wanted me to have a Litvish education. She said she wanted me to me to be a talmid chacham and not a tish go. That that was the way she put it. And I had one zaidy who survived the Holocaust and he was there with sincerity and you I remember. And and he was screaming, "Okay, so be a talmid chacham. Who's going to teach him to make an actually good What about those other words he used? Who's going to teach him to make an actually good So, my answer was that I didn't know at the time. My mother did. I definitely I definitely got my relationship with Hashem I got it at home. I got it in the shul before we got married. No question. Of course. Once you got it then do you know whose Torah you're learning? So, they have to go hand in hand. There There to be a return to an emphasis. Yes. What people are embarrassed to talk about Hashem. I think many of the and and I include myself among them, they're struggling and comfortable in their in their own right. So, it's hard to teach something that you don't necessarily fully experience. So, when you've been raised that way, it's a vocabulary you're unfamiliar with. Aish is willing to educate any rabbonim that are interested. We are willing to share our emunah with rabbonim, whether it's going to be a seminar, a retreat, whatever it is, we are open to give rabbonim the tools, first of all, to build their own relationship with Hashem, but the tools to give it to others. It's definitely very needed. Very needed. I know it was told to me by one of the talmidim in the yeshiva Yeshiva says that uh if the yeshiva could add a 14th ikkar to the Rambam, it would be that Hashem loves us. That Hashem loves us. I once wrote an article about Hashem loves us, other religions took that from us. God loves you, we got to bring that back. And I got a series of young people that were criticizing me. It's other religions, what do you talk about? What does it say? How could you say such a thing? It's not true, Hashem doesn't feel us, love us. What would the yeshiva say to to that? Because there's a whole group of people, not just young people, there are adults who grew up not feeling it and who continue to feel it, especially now they're feeling punched by Hashem, whether it's financially, whether it's in relationships, whether it's failed dreams, whether it's struggles that they're having, they they feel that Hashem doesn't love me. They say, "Hashem loves me? Look at my life, look at my struggles, look at my challenges. And maybe I feel maybe I'm unlovable. I'm so far from him, I failed him so badly. How could he possibly love me?" So, what would the yeshiva say? How how do we make people know or believe? Why should we feel that he loves us? Perhaps the last one on our list. The last Navi. Hey, Malachi starts off with that. That's the last Navi. I mean, the last Navi. The Klal Yisrael had I guess in the later days, we have that, we have to know that one. We have to Hashem loves everybody. Hashem created our struggles. Hashem created our weaknesses. He understands them better than we do. He's there rooting for us. He feels bad for us when we fail, and he's hoping we will get our act together. Hashem is there with everybody. It's all over the place. It's all over the place. How do you reconcile that he loves us, but he holds us accountable? Is there a father's love and is there punishment? The greatest The greatest Remember, Hashem created the world to give. Right? He was with someone. He's far above it. That was the purpose. And it was over the marsha to create only with me this idea. What that means is that there's no greater giving than taking than accountability. There's no greater giving. The way you build a person is like giving him responsibility. Hashem is not holding us accountable cuz he's he's this this terror. He holds us accountable because there's nothing like earning your eternity. There's nothing like earning your stay. Anything else he gives us, but he says it's free. So, the greatest hesed is holding us accountable. He's doing it only out of love and nothing else. Nothing nothing else. And for a person who doesn't feel that love, a person who's struggling, a person who's going through a hard time, should they feel he's punishing them? Like a dear father going through a very hard time, a sick child. I pray Hashem is punishing him. Hashem is punishing him. It's not over yet. It's not over yet. What he does to you, Hashem is not giving you the chance. In this world, the way we look at it in this world, is that's not about punishment. You know, ultimately there's dinner at his place. But until that point, it's Hashem giving us a message. It's Hashem giving us opportunities. He's giving us challenges. To bring out the best in us. And we have to get the message. We have to take the pain. We have to feel Hashem growing me. This is Hashem giving me to be greater. So, what should our advice How to How to practice that is his hypothesis? To To talk to Hashem. Hashem said to teach your children before you get to the seder to talk to them after the seder. Are there exercises in Emunah? What are the things that can help build a person to be stronger so that they intuitively react this way when challenges come? It begins with talking to Hashem, but it includes a lot of talking to oneself. We we're we have to work through actually one second. What is Hashem doing this to me? He loves me so much. What does he want me to get out of The question is always, "Listen, Hashem is doing this for me. What does he want me to think about Why am I going to be a greater person once I'm done?" That's an internal conversation. It's an internal conversation. By the way, when someone else is suffering, this is not okay. And that there is a dichotomy the dichotomy that we have when it comes to giving to other people and what we do for other people, we play Hashem. You know, when we give to other people, we don't have the right to start giving people mussar when they're suffering. The first thing we've got to do is be there for people, which is not just sympathy, but whatever we can. Empathy and and at least and and support, whatever we can do to help. If one is in a position where people are looking to you for guidance as well, after you do whatever you can, that's when you have to start talking to them about how they should have approached it. So, most of it is talking to Hashem, talking to ourselves. Yeah. Putting ourselves in that position to feel His presence, to feel His love. Yeah. Is is Is it possible to do the discovery for the summer seder the Bible codes in the whole discovery seminar many, many times? So, people's crisis of faith today. We're losing the opportunity to point to Holocaust survivors, which I myself lived off of and encouraged other people to in our community and elsewhere. Anyone who went through that and maintained their Emunah in Hashem right there quote tells just just just join on and and and take from there. Lubavitcher Rebbe used to say, "Write them a letter." So, so we have that we're losing that opportunity today and today you know somebody doesn't believe in God cuz their Wi-Fi was slow. Someone doesn't believe in God for the most seemingly small petty inconsequential is like where is he I don't believe in him anymore when people who lost everything maintain their faith. So when someone's struggling with them what do we come at them we come at them with Bible codes we come at them with wonders of Jewish history we come at them with evidence proof proofs or proofs only reach a certain a certain a very a very specific segment of the population. I think the proof would change a lot. It's a very cold world out there. And what gets people more than anything else is our trust on what? Nobody does hesed like from Jews and face it there's nothing like it anywhere else though. The way we just give of ourselves to others the way we treat seemingly care it doesn't exist anywhere else. The very first thing when you educate here about they met someone who really cares. That that does the difference. There's also a lot of the warmth in the Jewish guy as he sold as he as he shared with them a lot of emotional stuff although Jewish guy essentially is not emotional Jewish guy is something so beautiful I'm not even going to get into it. Today if you don't directly impress the Jewish someone then you're ignoring the message of a higher being of the place. The psyche of most people today is really corrupt. You see they're numb or they're They have to reach that first. And then you can start reasoning with them. Only then can you start reasoning with them. You know that's why Shabbat tone are so effective cuz the most effective speakers are the ones that get people crying. And and you know if where people are at but we got to know got to live with it. You know, we got to we got to we got to make use of that. The experiential today is much more accessible. So, basically, be like God before you talk about God. Let the personal experience settle within you, and then you can come and talk about it. Yeah. If you could choose between being like God or even talking to God, you can bring him into this world by being like him. Yeah. So, we need more of that. Yeah, being like him. I I I notice even throughout this conversation, I hope it's okay. It's not close to the big word. No matter what you do, the Rosh Yeshiva has a smile, always, whatever we're talking about, even korban and even the challenges of chinuch and the challenges the simplest kind, the smile, this positivity. Is that something the Rosh Yeshiva feels naturally, worked on? Is this an ongoing effort? Does it Does it come easily? Does it feel happy and smile? Life is beautiful. Challenges Challenges are exciting. I'm a good person. I'm a good They're exciting. People are fascinating. I'm also in a in a in a in a place where people are just thirsty for the Torah and which is which is so so beautiful. But, I grew up in a happy home. Holocaust survivors. Grew up in a happy home. And there were lots of things that had to be worked on. Um yes, I was the child of survivors, and there was lots of There was lots of anxiety, and they were afraid always afraid for me, and of course, we picked that up at home. There were a lot of things that had to be worked through, but the basic simchas chaim we definitely got at home. Definitely got at home. I share this one story that I share with people all the time. It's the most profound The most profound thing I've ever heard from my father is the coming of Moshiach. Um My parents were survivors. Yeah. My mother was in Auschwitz. Her father survived by going to to the states just before the war trying to get the family out. He wasn't able to. She lost two brothers, a sister, her mother. She survived Auschwitz. And my my father ran. His whole family went to Auschwitz and it seems like they went past Auschwitz too. His sister too. And my father was just a runner. He ran and found himself an unoccupied part of Lithuania. He survived the war, came back, and there was no one. He was the youngest of seven children. Five of them were married, had children. He had nieces, nephews, had parents, he had his grandfather who who who was an Orthodox Jew. It was a it was a Hasidic family, a warm family, a big family. And nobody came. Nobody came to the lonely war. So he found himself after the war in the home of the closest relative, which was the father of his uh the father of his sister's husband. Father of his brother. Uh and his sister did not come back either. Um well, that person happened to have been my mother's uncle. So then they had a two Hasidic children. My father was just a lonely war lost. So my mother approached him and said, "Let's get married. I'll take care of you." And that's what happened. And uh they had a beautiful marriage. They were a very interesting couple. They were so different. They had a beautiful marriage. And my mother was everything to him. She passed away when they were older. At the end of the Shiva, he turns to me and he says, "You know, if I really want to, I can be miserable." It was so powerful. "If I really want to, I can be miserable." Well, he didn't want to. He lived another 8 years. He didn't complain about being ill. He had a lot of trouble. His lungs weren't working so well. His digestion wasn't working. Ultimately, he couldn't walk. His kidneys weren't doing so well. He lost his hearing. He barely saw. He was so happy. He was just so happy. People loved coming to him because he was so happy. He would just elevate everybody. If you really want to, you can be miserable. Is that what you want, to be miserable? No, for real? His default was to be happy. He could have He could have forced himself to be miserable. You want to you I I don't know if it's Do you understand happiness is a choice? You can you can experiment with it. You know, you know, I don't like this There is no There is no such thing Everything is free will. Everything is a matter of a matter of how you choose to determine your highest to be happy. The Torah requires to love Hashem. The Torah requires you to smile. These are all emotions. How can I How can we be happy anymore? Yes. You choose how to feel. It's up to you. So, if you want to be miserable, good for you. Enjoy being miserable. That's what you want. If you choose to be happy, be happy. Be happy. And that's And that's really the secret. You could choose to be happy. So, did you ever get down, unhappy, and have to turn it around to to to remember happiness is a choice? more It's much more There are times that I'm just so overly tired. It's difficult not to be depressed, and you got to work on it. You know, when you when when you got to push yourself to be able to You know, doing a meeting. You know, there are tiny little artificial There's a lot There's a lot of things, but they they can get you down. were trying to get something and it knocked me off my statistics. There were times that the oneness is so much after that. You mentioned you get stories. You deal with people. You deal with people in all kinds of situations. There were times that it gets you down and you have to work. You really have to work. It's just natural. There was a play that I saw in my mind. You don't have to work for things and push yourself. It's not easy but again it's choice. Do you want to be miserable? Do you want to be depressed? It's part of the conversation we have with ourselves. I I spoke at Chabad Shul this past year. The crowd everybody else talked about the Marah we focus there on the Marah and the Marah D'Asarah and neglect the Marah D'Asarah. But if you don't have a healthy Marah D'Asarah, if you don't have a healthy relationship with yourself, how could you have a healthy relationship with others? And and I found a study we say according to most 4 million words a day to ourselves. The conversations in our own head is close to 4 million words a day we're saying with those conversations. But we're not aware, we're not controlling or regulating them or we're not Machine has not said several times about the importance of what we tell ourselves, what we say to ourselves, the stories we tell ourselves, how we get ourselves right. How how do we nurture that relationship in the Marah D'Asarah? First of all, we can't get credit for ourselves. People are afraid of accepting themselves, of respecting themselves cuz I'm getting all kinds of One second. Hashem made us. Whatever skills we have are God given. We didn't We didn't make them. Even if we have to work on developing them, Hashem gave us the energy to do that. There's very little we can really take credit for. Very very little. But the fact that Hashem gives us credit for all of our midst this is all us. It's a force of Hashem. It's all us. Hashem has Hashem has given us good people. Can I say So we accept that Hashem gives something really wonderful. Hashem gave you you. Appreciate you. Appreciate your strength. If if you're afraid of accepting your strength, how are you ever going to gain it? You can deny your weaknesses, but you got to accept your strengths and use them. And be appreciative and be proud. Be confident. Rosh Yeshiva mentioned Rosh Yeshiva's mother said, "Rosh Yeshiva's father, let's get married and I'll take care of you." And really maybe on paper they wouldn't have matched. And if they were born in a different time and a different place and they had to submit resumes with a picture without a picture and show up for an interview and all that, they may never have they never could have matched. They would maybe have never met. So so the challenges with the shidduch system today. Again, I can speak for America, not the situation here in Israel. It seems like we've compounded problems instead of taking them away. We're adding layers and layers and obstacles and obstacles with these inquiries and inquisitions and and the level of questions that are asked and and pictures that are demanded and we're not simplifying it, we're making it more complicated and the evidence is that we're not having more success, we're having more struggles. What can be done to improve the shidduch system? It has nothing to do with the shidduch system, it has to do with the shidduch with the people in the system. We have I love the shidduch system. That I I grew up there, that's my life. There's no place on earth I feel more comfortable than on the hard benches of a beit midrash. But face it, it's a nice cozy place where you never have to grow up. We don't have responsibility. We don't have responsibility for ourselves, we don't have responsibility for others. We don't we don't understand relationships. It's very easy to develop relationships with people that are like-minded. It's so good that you can all get together, it's like camp forever. We all have a great time mocking everybody else. You know, we should be guys who are critical and cynical. We're we're we're we can be melodramatic everything. Cuz we're all we all think the same. We all we all subscribe to the same stuff. Really learning learning to build a relationship with another human being is part of growing up. And yet we're not given such opportunities. But most yeshiva guys who are busy learning with years of just so impressive transformation. Which is they're not even enjoying their own circle. They don't even see what a home is supposed to be. So it is unfortunate in marriage. I don't know what the expectations are in marriage. You know, people don't really know what is marriage. Should a bocher when he's about to start dating a girl back in seminary, should we be doing more to prepare them, expose them, train them on those qualities and skills so they're more ready to go into the marriage? You should definitely you should definitely train them. There's nothing We should we should look at these these are tools we can give them for life. Responsibility. The perspective of things that people can use to develop bochurim. You want to take responsibility for your yeshiva. You don't have to say it out loud. There are plenty of things that one can take responsibility among other things they're learning. You know, I give tests in yeshiva. Once you're in a serious yeshiva, tests are automatic. Why not make them take responsibility for their learning? The idea that they have to take responsibility for everything they have to know, not just the issue of learning. Making their own stuff. Many of yeshiva doesn't have a serious halacha seder. Maybe they don't have their own halacha. Hopefully they marry someone who had a good halacha already and they learn together. I just just as examples. You know, you don't have to know all of Navi. You don't have to know all of Shas. So what do we do? We don't have to know all that. Taking responsibility for oneself. And the other ones in terms of relationships. They don't know how to build a home. I you know, I had the great fortune I I I was in the mirror the last years of the tradition that was a wonderful life. And he drew the big other Maharam into us. Anyone who was in the Yeshiva in the years of the time Anyone understands what it means to care for another human being. And understands that what a marriage is about is caring. And learning to develop a shared life with beautiful one another. Everyone needs And it was it was just so deeply ingrained in us. She knew that the Shem knew that the Shem knew that the Shem knew that And Yeshivas have to after they have to instill a real kind of children. And children learn it. Not a stupid one. Not an artificial one. Dealing with ducky ducky on the basic ideas of everything. I'm not giving a course. And that's what they don't like. They got their work cut out for them. There's really a lot to do. What happened in the old days? I don't know. I don't know. It seems like most people did all right without being treated that way. It could be the life is just so tough. And besides, most kids went to work when they were in their teens anyway. You know what I'm saying about that? You know, it could be Had to find a place to sleep in a hotel, had to eat. And there was a surprise building to the It was a surprise building, yeah. And the other thing is that you know, Baruch Baruch Hashem is still Latin. And that's why it's so delicate. You know, today the worst thing you can do is hit a kid. Hit a kid, ah, you can be sure he's going to be off the wall. I I'll speak for myself. Who did you grow up in here? Where everybody hit parents, hit teachers, hit everybody. here. Our favorite teachers here. Everybody here. So, there's room today still for a patch? Nah. Not really. Are you kidding? If you kid, this doesn't doesn't doesn't get you in prison. Right. But in the old days, it was it was a more effective way. But no, all this Everyone's spoiled. Everyone's spoiled. You know, there's this this this feeling of entitlement. And then there's no question why things don't work. Cuz you know why? Really, you know why they get Kids do that. So, it's much more fundamental than you said. Much more fundamental. Yeah. It's cuz of the I don't you know, I I know every system is everyone's punching bag. I am not going to add my my name to I I I just I don't want to be issue the world. I mean, that's that's our life. That's our life. There are things that we have to we have to improve on. In a big way, there are things we have to improve on. And and I and I think we have to take it seriously and not be afraid not be afraid of doing these little differently. On the soul of what a Yeshiva looks like, you can't tell me that it's from Europe because our Yeshivas don't look like what they do in Europe anymore. How many how many generations is it older than that? And we have to adapt to the new to the new situation. Is that part of a more innovative Yeshiva Jerusalem Kollel, which has a different focus on Kiruv? Someone described to me as a graduate school for outreach that's really preparing people to be on just the learning here and now of tonight to a future and to have a vision and to feel an increase in training. It's an unusual understanding of that Kollel different than most Kollels is that the wives are involved, their children are involved because they'll be part of that team that go out and do Kiruv together. But but by the way, it's not a Kiruv training program. It's preparing people for for service to Klal Yisrael. Mostly by people who are preparing preparing by by building themselves and who they are, their relationship with Hashem, their relationship with learning, their becoming responsible. They're they're they're better in their learning. We invest very much in all of those things. There's some Kiruv training, too. Hey, which is hands-on experience. But but for the most part, it's it's getting them ready for for for being out there in the world and out which of sharing of sharing the duty of talking with you. And that's why the wives wives are important. Of course. They're a critical part, too. Not two. Not two. I mean, in in in many cases, they make the difference. I I know the Yeshiva has been so generous with his time. I have maybe one or two more questions. And the Yeshiva has emerged to be a really a preeminent posek for and now it's a strong community as well all over the world. Yes, I I deal I deal with a lot of stuff, but I think a lot of it is because I've I dealt with and gotten into and invested in areas that no one else really has. There there are a lot of really good people around me. I'm not there. In terms of areas like in terms of the shailos that come up, the contemporary shailos and queries as such, you know, I get this the people we get. I know I I love learning. But, a lot of it has been way inflated. And on my plate is We appreciate the Yeshiva's modesty, but I know that I know that people ask shailos from all over about everything. Okay, yes. So, I wanted to know where the Yeshiva got shimus from, who the Yeshiva's mentor so to say in in answering shailos, and what are some of the most maybe that people don't appreciate from a posek side of the desk perspective, what are some of the most important principles and rules or what the Yeshiva's thinking about in approaching shailos. Yeah. So, as far as far as shailos and halacha, I Baruch Hashem, I was in Yerushalayim and had exposure to and exposure to some very very good people. First of all, the first was a family connection. He was the head of the the the head of the the rabbinic shul in Yerushalayim and he had a greatest and definitely world-renowned posek. Because of family, there was the Kupaieit of Rav Zalman Auerbach and got a lot even though he was there in the school with me. but in terms of in terms of understanding what you're allowed to do in stock and what you're not allowed to do in stock. He taught me many things and he was very strong in that. I remember one time he was present with a family simcha and I I I gave a drasha on a certain sugia and came up with a whole a whole nice and he smiled and said "Lo al avicha alav But you know, he let me know that I was that was going a little a little too far. So that you know, that definitely like I spent I spent a lot of time running to Rav Hershel. In my days he was much more accessible. There were many areas of halacha that that I I managed to discuss with him. There was a proof I was giving a halacha shiur in the mirror and I generally discussed the sugia with him the day I gave the shiur. So the first thing was it was always a bit of a I just spent two weeks preparing a sugia. I was really in it like really actually had it. I was getting really curious. If I had any you know, if I thought I discovered something new I thought I had discovered it it was always been there and of course there and then I didn't but I got I got a lot from that. I also used to speak to him about the sugia of shishim. It was also a big one. Um once they came to ask so we had a lot of sensitive shailos. There were some shailos that I went to Rav Hershel with but he was already more difficult to get into. But the culture of shailos had changed and he was not so available anymore. I I developed a relationship then with Rav Zalman Auerbach. Rav Zalman understood not only people but cultures. Uh well, I I learned from some of them. I would say that the Sanhedrin needs somebody there that can understand shipping washing. They have to understand the language because you couldn't have an interpreter in the Sanhedrin. I understood it. It's not just a matter of language. I assume it's all the different dialects, too. And it's the subtleties cuz when you have a difficult somebody you got to really hear what they say. Which means you really have to understand every culture. What kind of human being is sitting there? But some of them he had an understanding of people and cultures and their backgrounds. And he could be casual with you. Um Rav Elyashiv it's interesting but people make Rav Elyashiv totally You know, he was totally outside of but he We just knew he was saved and he was outside of of real life. So, first of all, you have to remember, he sat on the Beis Din Hagadol for like 50 years. He had all the all the crazy the crazy family shyness that that that that happened in secular Israel that came there also. Uh he He knew the world. He knew the world. His thing was not to show the world he knew this. You have to supply him with all the background information. But once you did, he got it. And you know, giving him all of Rav Elyashiv's big mouth, he also knew the coolest that nobody else knew. If you needed a daf siach, he had to rely on the Shas Ad Halacha. He knew the daf siach that nobody else knew. This is before you also have Halacha. Um but what I got out of that is the cold rush that every shaila he got was serious. Nothing was casual. Everything was a cold rush. Everything was a serious shaila. It didn't make a difference if if it was a way we were dealing with a shadow assist. Whether or not someone may marry, a question of a medical shadow line, or shadow on his conscience. Everything everything everything There was a particular stop we got from someone that it it sits with me. We had a we had a medicine medicine issue marrying his wife and his family Jewish people and so forth. The son of the conscious were not not especially great. Um but then she became the real issue. Cuz they were just helping a few across the board. Which initially you're taught not to do. The Yasha said that there is a supreme court ruling that that the sale of the land is not serious as a religious formality. The Yasha said you could not rely on it under any circumstances. So basically we were not eating any of those twice. So this Yasha was making trouble to consider if someone was not serious as he says. Someone this is the reason he's listening. She did this not as a problem. My hope is in the family involves so many issues in the rights. He can hear it just don't make a hole. Wow. Now don't go past this point. Every case is very very but understand my hope is this deadly. He is also in the rights of that question. We there's not an easy answer to things that are not comfortable you know with don't live up to your your your your level of reason. Wow. So that's the husband of the person. It's not just it's every one of the cycle of life. it's the people in front of you, it's the bigger picture and the implications of it and all that goes into a particular soccer. So that I mean it was fairly enlightening or it was the same time just spending time with with you know really really big people and understanding understanding how they process the show. It's not just technical knowledge that she doesn't like but then you get an answer. So it's an intangible one word for that. Uh what's the challenge of our generation too? The people that think you can Google everything. I'm sure they are Google. That's the poseka for now. Poseka from So so the last question again so grateful for the show the first time. We're sitting here in the Aish building, Aish Yeshiva, Aish complex, world headquarters, all that's going on. It's extraordinary. I'm I'm blown away. I'm honored to to be able to participate in such a small way with it. What's what's the vision? How can Aish make that difference and that impact? I know with technology, with the website, there is a vision and dream to hit certain number of millions of people. Are there boundaries um for the purpose of cure? Is there concern we're using technology or using even pop culture references in articles to be able to reach people otherwise would have no connection? Where are those boundaries of It's actually difficult. It is so difficult. We have regular meetings dealing with that alone. I have a regular meeting I have a regular meeting with with the the the senior management um dealing with where we draw the line, where we don't draw the line. What is acceptable, what is not acceptable. You know Aish.com we've announced very clearly is no longer targeting from people. Um from people made you uncomfortable with some of the articles on it. There's lots of Torah you can read the article on Aish.com. Um and we're trying to target people that that really not affiliated and because of that we're doing things we didn't do before. But it's so delicate. Not everything's meant to be cured, but not everything is also meant to be cured. And you got to understand that there's no way of being safe. Like just be mindful and you'll be okay. Just be mindful. There's no way. You can't You've got to reach Jews in the most effective way possible. We're trying to reach the unreachable. We've said a number of million. We believe that that's a critical mass of Jews that's going to know that there's a creator and that he left us his instructions for for the most meaningful and enjoyable way to live. And that being a Jew means studying divine wisdom. That's what we want to do. The only way we're going to get there is if we we we have some very provocative and outrageous stuff out there that's going to get those people interested. Now, not everything is monitored. Not everything is monitored. Articles are are reviewed over I'll tell you, you know, often I'm asked to review an article that's about to be posted and my filter will not allow me to see it. And I don't just mean the graphics. I mean the content as well. So, you know, everything everything is reviewed carefully. Our staff itself is very sensitive by now. They know when to ask the They know when something really has to be discussed. Um a lot of a lot of sensitivities they develop with the issue and you you see the people here that that that are truly way shalom. And and and understand. Um and then a lot we learn by experience. You know, as well. We do have the issue always of even if Hashem holds his right, will we from Jew be forgiven? And and and there, you know, there are times that we we we have to do some damage control. In order to reach Jews, we're going to have to do things that we get a lot a lot of slack for but it's got to be within reason. We are in society so we are not in isolation. We are Yeshiva light. We're doing things that are creative and different because we have to we have to reach the people out there but we are Yeshiva light. We're not rebels. Um we're not uh we're not a new brand of Orthodoxy. We're Yeshiva light all the way. Um we just have to be very creative in the way we reach people. Ash is doing amazing work. I I know many people who have a firm background and still find for the reasons we spoke of earlier because they go to other resources and it doesn't address the most basic things that they want to feel and know and believe and derive inspiration from. So we're so grateful to the Yeshiva to Ash and most of all to the Rosh Yeshiva for the time, the wisdom, for all the Rosh Yeshiva does. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. It's so nice spending some time together. It was a wonderful thank you. Okay, this was tremendous. This was I went a little bit over time. I I apologize. I took a lot of the Rosh Yeshiva's time. But I I I think the message is now for the world to hear we're unbelievable. Unbelievable in everything. The Kiruv and Halacha were tremendous and I'm so grateful. So so grateful. And and we have to work together. I mean you have a lot you have a lot to offer. You have a lot to offer and you you have a lot of responsibilities too. I'm here to tell you I was speaking with an old friend of mine. I told him I love the idea of convening a cabinet will come to Yeshiva and follow up there in the field. He's offering his services. I haven't seen it happen enough yet. Listen, you know, we're we're we're trying to reach people. We have we have the content. The lost content is the greatest. The presentation is outdated. The presentation is outdated, right? Um we haven't yet really cracked the code on how we present authentic Judaism in a way that people in this day and age are really going to listen and say, "Yeah, I know that. That's me." We haven't done it yet. You have a lot of experience. You're articulate. We we need you in the program. I'm in. I'm in. I'm in. Whatever I can do. Whatever I can do. The opportunity to partner would be a great success. I I I'm trying to put together an entire people who are real successful in reaching people. And I I know I see you as a prime candidate for for for bigger opportunities. I appreciate that. I hope it's true, but I'm I'm in here and eager eager to succeed. Okay. I hope we can continue the conversation from here. All right. It's really great to spend time. Thank you so much. That was really an incredible interview, great incredible conversation. There's so much to unpack, so much to think about, so much to implement in our own lives. The call, the responsibility for all of us to be involved in outreach. Every one of us can open our Shabbos tables. And what's refreshing about Rabbi Berkowitz is as as brilliant as he is, as much as he knows, as level-headed, as moderate he is, his understanding of the world around us. And that goal of reaching 3 million Jews is just really a mind-boggling goal. And and if we all partner and collaborate, we can achieve it. And the importance of avoiding machlokes, biblical prohibition of tension within a family superseding others, the mind of a of a posek who's able to to balance those. And chinuch, unconditional love even when our children are not continuing exactly at that moment on our path. So much to think about, so much to take away. I hope you'll continue the conversation on your own. Until next time, stay