Shidduch Series #5: The Learning/Working Question (Ep. 119)

hi everybody this is devin orlowski and welcome to the robert yolovski show and whether you're watching with our friends over at tourney time wherever you watch or listen to your podcast it's wonderful to have you along and how appropriate that we are in the middle of our series because we have a sponsor this week it's a sponsor that we had last year and a lot of people participated and i think that's a wonderful thing i think it's a great project i will read a few this episode is sponsored by the chicago hessen fund in honor of their fourth annual shas for shidduchim campaign we all know singles who are caught up in the parasha it is our responsibility to help shasta shidduchim a national initiative of the chicago hazard fund gives singles their friends or family members a meaningful way to bring about chidorchen antubesvat which will be coming up on january 28th hundreds of loomdim will complete shas and the actors created by this incredible event together combined to generate real 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information will be um uh in the little window explaining the videos so you can you know if i if i talk a little too fast there for you we should be able to have this it's a wonderful idea what a beautiful thing first of all i know that the organization does good work i've spoken for them and uh the fact that they uh that they're doing a project like this listen everybody's looking to help singles and i imagine if you're watching this podcast on this subject you understand uh either for yourself or for other people that this is something that's very necessary so we're going to continue with our series now and that is we started speaking last week i started introducing it and that is self ma tequila you have to sit down and get clear at the beginning what it is that you expect from a marriage so tell your story i heard this from a rebbe in an american issue um you know one of the one of the uh you know one of the fine american yeshua's designed for american buckland here tonight charlotte's been around for many years anyway he said he says he had a bacha who was dating and uh the boy said to him i don't know what to do says i went out on a date last night and the girl said to me why do you want to get married i didn't know what to tell her so the rebbe says tell her that you want to give that's where this guy in my story from last week must have gotten tell him that you want to give your whole life you've been taking you took from your parents you took from your rebellion you took from your friends now you want to get married so you can give so the boy thinks about it and he says i can't say it so he says why he says because it's not true i want to get married because i want to leave yeshiva and everyone knows that if you're not in yeshiva you won't get a good girl so i have to stay here until i get married and then i can leave and go to my father's business now there's a lot of things we have to unpack that there's there's a lot of things inside of that story and it represents what's interesting is two different thought patterns um [Music] one is uh a um a thing i hear from girls i hear from girls i just want to marry a guy like my father she's one man guy like my father you know he gets up early in the morning and he he learns then he goes to davening and then he works supports his family and finds style comes home at night spends time with the kids then he has a night saver you know shabbos he learns the whole day well we used to call it from a bella bus that's all i want yeah i hear some girls and i hear from guys that i don't know that i want to sit in the basement full time and learn right i'm not opposed to learning but uh you know i also want to go out and support my family but you can't do it today that's what i'm told because you won't find a good girl right because girl doesn't want to marry a guy who's not not sitting in yeshua and so therefore we've created a situation all right let me tell you uh i i was speaking in yeshiva once i i was giving a series and uh one of the things i talked about was the fact that there are musa schmoozin left over from the last generation that don't do anything for us today they just don't because they were talking to a different generation right i'll give you an example guyva the fact that people talk about guyver today reporting already in the 1960s they didn't have a fancy word like self-esteem but he says in europe he had a problem with gaipa but in america you have a problem of self-worth people don't feel like they're worth anything so to beat them up on guyva where's that guy it's interesting i was speaking once uh to a group about me dos and i said well what meatless you want to talk about so the first one they said was savla newt patience i said well you'll have to wait till we get to that anything else someone said guyva i said there's not government today i said and i don't know if my definitions are the best definitions but the way i define it is there's a difference between an egotist and an ego-ist an egotist is about i'm better than everybody else an ego is somebody who is so focused on themselves because they need to be they they it's like a small child who says to his mommy mommy look mommy i'm jumping in the pool mommy you're not watching mommy mommy look at me mommy that's not a bad guy it's a little kid who little children only understand their own existence that's why a little kid can go like this uh i don't see you so you don't exist because all of existence revolves around me and if i don't see you then you don't exist that's a that's an egoist yeah so um uh so schwarzenegger i said with the other the other schmoozin rather he says who was amok amma like threw themselves into a bati reserves they jumped into a boiling uh bathtub they knew they would get burnt but they went in just to cool it off you know who's in my like you're a malik and you're a malik every time you come late to shul everything you know late to the basement every time you you go for a cup of coffee and you cool down the base imagine as you cool down to learning you're a molly and they came up afterwards and said um sometimes my my wife is sick and she asks me to help a little bit um am i malik sometimes i have to take my kid to the doctor and i get to the basement just like am i in my leg you know you gotta you gotta know who you're talking to you gotta you gotta understand where things are where things belong i teach missiles hashem i have online two different shirum that i that i do kabura's people can join and um and uh i've been teaching it for 30 years i had a girl in my house she uh she was in a particular seminar and she says oh we're doing missousharm and in our seminary so that was april may i figured wow where are you up to we're still in the introduction well i thought i go slow and in depth that's amazing i said what have you learned from the words of the ramakhal from the introduction of myself you have to marry a boy learning in color so i tell you the truth i don't remember that line it could be it's there but you know i don't remember it could be it's there let me let me skip to the end of the book since uh luckily this is all the way at the end so it's pretty safe but at the very end there i thought karina in dear readers your dante da you know like i do actually see this i haven't listed all the details because the details are very many and they change with the situation each person according to his profession or what he does so you have to straighten out your ways which is the highest levels heroic misha teresa umanasai for a person who sits and learns all day anno derek it's not the same as somebody who has to hire himself out to work below zev misha isaac wrestling that's not going to be the same way that you reach casinos if you're in business doesn't matter what you do yeah you can achieve the highest levels this is what he's the whole mississippi was talking about to reach the highest levels not because hasidis changes but depending on your situation if you're a businessman if you're a professional look for yoga leos crossing gomorrah you could be the highest spiritual level ish who has to do simple lowly work whatever the lowly work is come on me i shall you've sucked me people leave hood just like someone who does not stop learning all of the time the martin titus tells the story of abachilla they needed rain so there's a famous story with honey a mogul where he drew a circle and he stood in a circle and he said to god i'm not leaving here until i until you answer me and you send right so he wasn't around so uh his descendant yeah he's working out in the field and come and they say hello he doesn't answer them and he walks home and there's a lot of strange things that go on and uh he says to his wife want us to dive in for rain that must be where they're here and the two of them go into two sides they start dabbing and eventually starts raining there's a lot of details to the story anyway after starts raining he goes down and he says he says the sages well what can i do for you he says okay you figured it out so they asked a whole series of questions and one of them was why didn't you say hello he says i'm a day laborer i work from sunrise to sundown i'm not i'm not allowed to waste my time saying hello to people i'm working for the boss this is a guy who works a full day and that's what they went to darling for when they needed rain now there's all kinds of different approaches to it you know i remember he left i heard him say once never have left the love of mushaf mata [Music] he said today you can find boys who are willing to be mice and fish to learn tiger my significance give up their soul yeah mice and average if you buy them an apartment and you get them a car and you support them you know and it comes with a vacation and that comes with it you know so he said so what's the message they're going to get up every morning and go to yeshiva that's called mysteriousness i sent this over to a group of kola guys once they said to me well not every morning but certainly many mornings [Laughter] we left said i had fever who used to learn by candlelight because they couldn't afford to turn on the electricity i had friends who had noodles for dinner every single night that's all they could afford was was was noodles he says i'm not talking about new shalom i'm talking about when i was in tells in cleveland ohio today we want we want everything i want everything and the father said to me once why do these people have a right to demand this i said i don't blame them i blame you why don't you find the young man and say to him like my father-in-law said to me how do you intend on supporting my daughter well everyone knows that the best boys are learning okay so go pay the money what do you want from me that's what you want but a person has to be honest with themselves don't get me wrong a person who is really mice and efficient tyra unbelievable i know a young man who was in yeshiva it wasn't an aleph yoshimo it's called the basisheet and the guys were not terribly motivated and one of the rebellion said listen let's talk straight you know just learn stock for a few years and you know you'll you'll get an apartment somebody will buy an apartment to marry their daughter just sit and learn from a financial point of view it's worthwhile i don't know i don't know if bulma's that sound once said to me how do you think you're gonna have torah when you have these people killing their father-in-laws to get the money killing them so they can't afford it someone went to rebel yoshi and asked if it was okay to sell body parts to get the money to marry off their children he said no by the way sorry but uh i have a no a fellow he told me now a wealthy fellow came to monastery if he could borrow money so he said sure but what do you need money for he says all my money's tied up in deals he says uh okay he says i i don't have any i'm not liquid he says what's the problem he says my daughter got married to a boy and part of the deal is that i'd buy them an apartment so i told them listen i'm not liquid right now so instead i'll rent you an apartment a wrenching apartment anyway last week i got a hazmat at the bastion he's taking me to court because i agreed to give him an apartment where's my apartment so i'm going to borrow money buy him an apartment right next to his parents and goodbye good luck to you in general i've seen this i'm sure you've seen it too there are people who are not looking for the best husband looking for the best father they're looking for the best you know which family that is oh such a wonderful family can i tell you you know my wife had a student and she was dating a guy who was the son of an adam goddell i won't mention his name out of respect he's no longer with us everybody knows him and uh she's really surprised going out with me i'm a balchuba you know a kid and as i'm dating him i see why because he's uh he's a person he's it's not a simple thing you know and his father said to me don't worry i'll be there with you i'll help you etc sure enough i get married this guy is the biggest bum you ever met and the father is nowhere to be seen i call him he won't take my calls he won't see me he wants nothing you know but it was a because your family i had a girl uh came from a more modern background and she from doubt you know became very they have this great word the hebrew mitzka raid yeah she became uh more more to the uh more to the ready side and she married a boy came from a famous family with a famous last name and he went to brisk and uh wonderful sitting and learning she was coming to my missiles of sharmasha and at the end of the year they're going back to america and she says to me i don't know what to do my husband is spiritually dead so what do you mean he says look i chose this lifestyle i got into it i got very excited these things move me i used to come back from yourself and i try to tell them wasn't interesting wasn't interested i said but you sit and learn all day he says it's an intellectual exercise now i'm gonna learn for a few years and then i'm gonna go to law school and uh that's what i really wanna do but this this is just you know she says he complains about the way i dress i said you dressed quite appropriately since that's what he doesn't like so why can't you dress like the other wives shorter tighter why should i be the only husband who was embarrassed and i told him if you are in the house or dress whatever you want he says no i i want people to appreciate that i also got a good wife like a prize bass [Laughter] so she went for it she went for the echoes she went for the learning she went for the brisk she went in my point is only what is it that you're looking for masiras nevesh that means that i'm really prepared to live a simple lifestyle and i used to tell this to girls i said is that really what you want got to be honest is that what you really want so they said yeah yeah yeah i'm i'm always sacrificed i said okay you're hearing them you're here in israel now for the year i said your parents send you money you go out to eat restaurants you go out to get a facial yeah or are you saving that money to like pay the electric bill for your husband who's sitting and learning [Laughter] be honest what is it that you really want uh you understand this is what causes so many problems in marriage because people get married and they don't know why they're getting married i told you that last time what's the purpose of marriage what's my goal where am i going [Music] i used to teach sometimes i would mess up girls it's too bad they go out on a date i said well boy what do you want to do he said i want to learn he says why it's because you know that's what everybody does but but is that is that because you enjoy learning do you want to go and talk about the satire do you want to be yours i'm loving you because everybody loves you i don't know what you want from me so be honest what is it that you want you gotta be real okay so i'm not talking about the one to two year israel honeymoon that some couples have which i think is very nice they come to israel for a year or two [Music] and he learns where ever he's supposed to be learning and she you know is looking for a job you know meantime parents are supporting them and uh you know they managed to take time to go out to eat go on vacation i didn't hear this from roy berkowitz himself but i heard from somebody who was close to him that he was you know working to make sure there were restaurants with good hashkakas because it's mama's shalom bias issues he said which couples come and they have to go out to eat they've got the dinner they've got the restaurants so uh okay so you found yourself an apartment in [Music] one of the little neighborhoods for young couples in a in jerusalem and you're more or less learning in yeshiva and everybody's happy yeah but that's not i don't confuse that with learning issue that's a honeymoon it's very nice and the first year sometimes two years in eritsel going out to eat going on vacations you learn a little bit she has a uh she has a uh iced coffee you know walking up and down perron okay whatever that's fine because that's your goal is obviously not to sit and learn in yeshiva that's just a fun way to start your wedding yeah and uh i i can appreciate that that's what we're talking about we're talking about lifestyle goals and that's what you have to really ask yourself so we tell the story to our children of rochelle who marries will be akiva he's 40 years old and then i'm aaron and he goes off to learn for 12 years and she doesn't see him for 12 years at the end of 12 years he comes back and he overhears her saying if he was here right now i tell him to go back for another 12 years and he goes back for another 12 years at the end of 24 years he finally comes home he's 64. she's had a little bit of a rough time her parents cut them her parents cut them off and uh i don't think he saved up that much from shepherding surprisingly shepherding doesn't pay as much as you might think but [Music] is that an ideal is that should we tell our children they should get married and send your husband off for 24 years see him afterwards [Music] um there's a story where rebel yoshi was sitting on his front stoop and his father-in-law levin comes by and says my eye what are you doing out here he says my wife's not letting him in the house he was outraged he goes into the house and he says my shockholm is sitting on the stoop she says the baby is sick and i don't want to bother him i won't bother him so i want to make sure that uh because i'm afraid he'll miss you know nightsaber and i'll want to stay home and help with the baby so i want to get the get the baby quiet you know i'm trying to get the fever down a little bit before he comes in so that it won't upset his learning uh great story is is that is that what and i know my girls all heard the story when they went to went to yoshira when i went to seminary okay that's it's great there you will be at zardakis i have nothing against sitcom years i think as a profession it's an unbelievable thing it's got to be real don't pretend to be noble if you are not don't be you know oluwik used to say don't be my nephesh for torah don't sacrifice do it because you want to do it because you enjoy it because it's meaningful to you you got to be real couple times wife used to give a penny every day to the baker so she could sweep up the crumbs from where he would cut the bread and that's what they would eat and one day she didn't have the penny and the baker wouldn't give her the crumbs she came home and she said when i have crumbs and i come in time looks up the shema and says you think then i'm gonna i'm gonna you know stop learning just because uh you won't give me some crumbs forget about it do these expensive wine stores here in eric's show someone told me they also have them in lakewood people going out spending an enormous amount of money on bottles of wine guys who are sitting here learning i mean obviously it's not their money but uh you know got to be real what is it that i really want what are my real expectations now if you want to sit and learn long term and you're prepared for it so i used to have girls who were over at the ushala and they would bring by their cousin [Music] i got bushy tails and i'd say to them i'd say how are you going to support this young lady i'd be talking i said great did you work that out with the kurdish borough does he know to send the my colleagues would send the bill directly to oh that's what my revenue told me okay i want to know at the end of the month how are you going to pay your bills and all the years that i was doing this one time a guy said this is how much i get from the yeshiva this is how much i get from this i i took over the dry cleaning thing over there i tutor a buck over here you know and my wife is going to work that's how we're going to pay the bills and i was so impressed together you got to have a you got to have a plan have a plan if you want to sit and learn long term and yeah you're prepared for that and it works for you there's a lot of people who are have been learning for many years and they kind of burned out they can't really go anywhere so that's all they know it's not that they're getting such a seatbook from it now they're enjoying it but you know it's what you do [Music] it's going to be a choice and when you go into a marriage it's got to be the two of you have to be clear at the beginning is this what i want they tell a joke here in israel they say when a girl is going out she wants kind brisket when she gets married she wants kayem oiza okay the joke is kind brisker of course was uh you know kind of brisk who was the unbelievable london etc was the god of door and his generation is unbelievable but the play on words are hayam oyzer oysza means to help when she's uh when she's dating she wants my brisket earns 18 hours a day when she gets married she's remember somebody's actually gonna be there not just uh not just uh you know so if you want that that's great yeah burn bound from the mirror and and new york his wife never knew where he was it was always in the basement she just forgot to come home she'd go and she'd find him she'd bring him food shake this down a b he'd stay there all night saturday morning but that's gotta work for you that's gonna you get you gotta be honest not just be noble be real and i and i say the same thing to the boys so this girl married a boy learning you know and she says listen i just i can't afford to buy diapers disposable diapers i can't i can't live like this he has to go out and work i just can't i don't have a problem with that but why don't you marry a boy who was gonna do it in the first place now father more said than be once he says look everyone knows the best boys are in learning i said so he says so i want my daughter to marry one and then have him leave and go to work i said so you want a guy who's one of the best boys because he sits and learns and then you want to have him marry your daughter and not learn so don't worry she was right i said why don't you just leave that boy alone let him find somebody who wants to support him and he can sit large for the next 20 years and find a boy who wants to go to work they have a cool word you know it's still in vogue but at one point they had this phrase a learner earner yeah but just be real i'm i'm just what can i tell you i'm i'm such a believer in being real i think that's so important yeah and uh listen if if you want to live your life with someone who's going to learn for the next 20 years and you're going to carry that burden that's that's beautiful if you want a guy who's going to be a firm guy and be covey and go to work and support a family it's also beautiful something says so i'm not going to tell you which is the right one and the answer is which is right for you i have to take away all the stigmas oh it's a problem [Music] now they were starting a hater bernay brock the sort of uh stamen it's only taking the boys from the best families the ones with their fathers are only learning that yeah i just didn't learn that so simply said i don't know when i was young we went to haiti with everybody and it worked out well heresy heresy on three counts burn them which anyway it goes back to what i was saying last time and that is you have to be real let's be real and we'll talk more about the process and you know and how you find the right question but there's no question yeah the god of them say that and so as we mentioned at the beginning [Music] might be a good option if you're looking for somebody you're looking for somebody for somebody so that uh the squish of tefila and stucca and uh torah all coming together uh hopefully we'll help you find the right person for you but be honest be honest all right that's it for this week if you want to find out more about the show go to raviolovsky.com you can leave a comment you can sponsor an episode you can uh contact me and that's it until next time i'm david rolofsky and this is the ravriolovsky show it's the rabbi orlowski show torah and simple ready to go the rabbi orlovsky show knowledge and wisdom will help you grow lots of fun in every episode and we don't have to rhyme though it's the rabbi orlovsky show on rabbi orlovsky.com torah anytime you two and more it's rabbi orlovsky show torah and simply ready to go it's the rabbi orlovsky show [Music] till next time till we meet again my orlowski show it's the rabbi orlowski show it's the rabbi orlowski show