Shadchanim Say the Darndest Things (Shidduch Series #8) (Ep. 122)

hi this is debbie rolofsky and welcome to the rabbi yolovsky show and whether you're listening with our good friends over at tyranny time or wherever you watch or listen to your podcasts it's wonderful to have you along as we continue discussing the topic of shidduchim and listen when i talked about seminaries that obviously doesn't apply to everybody when i talk about shidduchim it doesn't apply to everybody but you'd be surprised i've gotten quite a number of uh letters from young ladies who are in high school and they said we're not in the parsha yet but we appreciate hearing about it i've gotten a number of uh of uh let us marry people who say i wish i had heard this before oh well anyway but uh like i say uh every topic is important everything everything yeah is torah and uh everything is tied in together and needs to be understood and as i mentioned in an earlier podcast ultimately the concept of shidduchim has to do with our relationship with the kurdish borough so everything that goes into that is obviously relevant or as we say here in israel relevante all right and speaking of shidduchim we have back one of our favorite sponsors a wonderful wonderful program that i encourage everybody to consider listen closely to this this episode is sponsored by the chicago cressid fund in honor of the fourth annual shas for shidduchim campaign we all know singles who are caught up in the parsha it's in quotes that's why i'm doing that it is our responsibility to help you hear this it's our responsibility to help clientsville is responsible for each other claudius eliza if there's a single out there who doesn't have a it is our problem not their problem [Music] a national initiative of the chicago husset fund give singles their friends or family members a meaningful way to bring about chidochem now it says friends family uh members uh i say everybody this is like i say this is a crisis that every one of us has to feel a sense of obligation i know for my own children 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sponsor adaf in org or call 847-679-7799 extension 170 that's 847 679 7799 extension 170. now it doesn't say it here but i'm guessing that if you say i heard this on the raviolovsky show you'll get that extra benefit of adding in another name six names in this course wonderful okay so what are we talking about so last week i talked about what's uh what are real issues and what are side issues and uh like i say there's nothing that's right there's nothing that's wrong when it comes to this uh a fellow came to us once and uh he had a list of uh what he wanted and a girl involves me doesn't somebody smart somebody who's from somebody had a whole long list so my wife said oh i have a friend who i think beats you bill so he said is she blonde so he says no he says i forget it my wife was so upset this guy could be so shallow you know i said you have this whole list i want this girl who's this that but she's not a blonde so let's just forget it and i said look his mother's blonde his sister's blonde he grew up with that you know the reason so many irish people have red hair is because there it's considered a sign of beauty and so people look for redheads so they tend to get married more this guy comes from an atmosphere where he thinks that uh blind is important that's important to him i can't tell him it's not important it's important to him so a person you know i got a a letter who from a fellow who married a girl of uh you know hispanic background you know well yeah ashkenazi came from hispanic country you know and uh yeah you know they uh it works quite well you know but uh yeah so a person puts one on their list it's got to be american from flatbush you know what i mean is that something that's inherent it's not inherent right that's what we talked about last time so uh how do we uh how do we go about this what do we do now okay we sat down and we did the hard work we figured out who we are what we want which is not easy i read a letter from a young lady who said i had very clear what i'm looking for uh ben terry is hiroshima but someone who's going to support his family and shakhtar had no idea what i was talking about right they said oh you want a boy in learning he says no i don't want to boil something you're not going to find another boy like that yeah so uh so we have to do our work where do we find the boy or the girl of our dreams if not of our dreams then of our of our thoughts of our reality yeah so um uh there is a very old tradition in the jewish people called the shotgun matchmaker matchmaker make me a match find me a fine catch me a catch yeah he's handsome he's young all right he's 62 but he's a good man a good catch right right yeah so uh this has been parodied many times the council the idea of shotgun goes back a very long time the maharao used to use the money that he got for shahanas to buy his dollar medium because it had to belong to you and he wanted to make sure that he had money that really belonged to him and he felt the money you get for sure that really belongs to you and uh it's very important yeah there are all kinds of horror stories if you don't pay your shadows i'm not going to go into that um it doesn't have to be an official shotgun with a plaque there is no shotgun certification service there's no there's no uh there's no license there's no testing yeah anybody can call themselves a shotgun and therefore the best shotgen is somebody that you know a friend of the family a friend of yours uh somebody who who knows you and knows the person yeah that that's the best how often does that come up sometimes but after we have exhausted the traditional ones then we go to a shop now i mentioned already there is no certification there is no licensing that goes on in this even if there was it doesn't mean anything because there are people who don't know what they're doing so i want to tell you about a character by the name of dr joseph bell most of you i'm sure has never heard of dr joseph bell he was a doctor in victorian england and he had a particular skill at diagnosis he um he would meet a person and after the physical examination he would tell him where he lived what he did for a living uh all kinds of details about himself and he did this through his power of observation of seeing which muscles were developed and this and all kinds of different things absolutely amazing absolutely amazing uh skill um but uh that's a hush uh one of his patients was arthur conan doyle and he used him as the inspiration for his character in a series of books called sherlock holmes he was so impressed by his diagnostic ability to be able to do it that he created a literary character whose job it was specifically um uh to figure out just from observation and clues right um a little bit of pop culture i apologize what can i do you know i'm immersed in the the world out there but there was a tv show about a character called dr house who was in fact based on sherlock holmes the the writers had said and that's why his name house and holmes and uh uh he uh he was a diagnostician and he would look for little clues little things and based upon this he would be able to diagnose what was wrong with the person when no one else could figure it out so it came full circle it started with the doctor became sherlock holmes and from sherlock holmes became a doctor this is a gift now there are people who are doctors who are not gifted in diagnosis it's a fact yeah so um when we lived in america we had an older doctor who was very experienced and he sold his practice to a younger doctor who was not so experienced yeah and um uh he uh he did some of the most bizarre things i know now now that i uh had children and grandchildren children in their 30s you know i have a little more experience yeah but one of my kids and her shabbos you know got their hands on some chewable vitamins etc that had iron in it we didn't know exactly how many they had we brought them to the emergency room we went to the doctor to bring to the emergency room we checked it into the hospital and he said i'm keeping them here for iron binding therapy i spent shabbos sleeping on the floor um and a hospital room with my with my little child my toddler and and in the morning they just told us okay go home so i said what about the iron binding therapy they said what's that i never heard of no i didn't find things happening my next kid uh my wife got pregnant when she was nursing and so she went to switch to a bottle and it took a while for her to take to the bottle because she was a stubborn young lady and uh and so um uh during that time she lost some weight so the doctor decided that she might have a serious illness and put her in the hospital for failure to thrive now anyone who's seen me knows that it's unlikely that any of my children have a problem when it comes to failure to thrive we thrive perhaps more than the average person but put in the hospital so it took a couple of days to work it out we came to the hospital during that time she had gained weight so we said so the what are we doing here and he said if you don't have confidence in me then i can't be your doctor anymore you might as well go to a different doctor so i said hey works for me my wife felt bad for him so we stayed and they did all kinds of unnecessary tests and while she was in the hospital there were those you know few hours she gained a half a pound it was ridiculous so my third kid who was two months old on tinus esther and i just came back from eric's shell um so uh she uh she had a fever so he brings a my wife brings my daughter in to be examined and he says uh well i can't find the sign of infection i don't see any ear infection you know it um it might be meningitis take us straight to the hospital don't even go home straight to the hospital now after he hospitalized two of my kids we were a little hesitant yeah so she called me up and i said tell me what a second opinion and he says no you'll go through a second opinion you'll never have me back again then the whole thing anyway we went to an unusually gifted physician who as it happens is still practicing um my daughter brings my uh grandson to him and uh he had tremendous experience and he had a hush and he says i understand what the other doctor said he's going by the book and by the book if you have a kid who's under two months and there's a fever and you can't find the sign of infection you have to worry it's meningitis but i've seen children with meningitis this kid doesn't have meningitis in the room we'll look for an infection we'll look for an infection you know and eventually he sent her home he says listen tina's esther it's perm tomorrow you have a big suitor you know i'm sure you're intelligent enough that if you see a problem you'll take them to the hospital and it was the last time we went to that other doctor who by the way wouldn't give us our medical records but uh he was he was doing the best he can and uh he just didn't have a crush this other fellow has hush when you have a hush when you have an ability for this yeah um psychotherapists whether they're a social worker whether they're a psychologist whether they're a psychiatrist or a psychotherapist you don't need anything to be a psychotherapist just hang up a little sign i'd be a psychotherapist yeah um you could be a life coach whatever the case happens to be yeah same thing there's certain people who have a hush and they understand people and they can figure people out there are other people who are just following through on whatever the books say they don't have a gift for it not their fault they're just not gifted in this area yeah and i can tell you horror stories of people who have gone for uh help from professionals and uh what can i tell you you know sometimes if they don't make things worse they're already worth their money you know i've seen people do terrible things terrible things but okay yeah the same thing is true about let me tell you about a truly gifted i don't have their name [Laughter] but they exist in my theoretical realm of existence i will share with you the shotgun that i'm looking for and this is not to cast aspersions on anybody i don't know shokunam i've heard stories of who do not meet these criteria but uh you know i don't know too many uh who i don't know any who do so i can't recommend otherwise i'd recommend them i'm not shy you know that nobody's ever said you know what the promise of the real housekeeping he doesn't tell us what he's really thinking yeah quite the opposite someone said to me i see you poised sometimes when you're talking and i feel like you think is this appropriate to say or not and regardless of the answer you keep talking so you know that's not my problem but here's this truly gifted childhood they meet with the boy in person they meet with the girl in person they are insightful they do research to see whether or not the things that the people are tying them is accurate they look up the references they speak to people and they actually know the people and then when they meet somebody they try to think who do i have who is appropriate for this person and then as they're going out they have the ability to listen to both sides and see whether the problems that they're encountering are of such magnitude that there's no real room for the sheriff or if they're not so serious and they can be worked through or discussed perhaps the problem of communication etc i don't know this shanklin if you know them and you've had experience with them let me know you know i have plenty of people to recommend um you must be wondering what terrible stories could you possibly have heard from here's one a boy comes on the market now okay in the firm world and i stress in the from um yeshiva world as opposed to the hassidusha world where things work differently yeah um uh a girl is uh has a more difficult time finding a shirt little boy so you wait for a boy to come on the market sometimes you encourage the boy to go on the market sometimes and i know stories like this people who have money and are interested in the particular boy will pressure the rebbe to get him to decide that he wants to start shibohem so that they can push their daughter to the top of the line whatever it is the boy comes out so now he gets a list of girls so someone told me there's one shotgun who as soon as he hears as a boy basically um copies all of the names out of the basiaco high school yearbook and sends it to the family and says if you're interested in any of these girls contact me this way they have a claim of shahonis in case the boy goes out with any of these girls he doesn't know the girls there's another boy yeah does that seem uh immoral yep yeah do such things happen well a neighbor of mine was looking around for an apartment and uh and uh went to a uh real estate agent and um uh you know signed a contract and uh he showed him another number of apartments and none of them were really appropriate for them and eventually they found one that a building that was being built and they bought it directly from the building so uh he called up the realtor and said thank you for your service but uh we found a different apartment the guy says where so he tells him the address and fine he gets a bill in the mail for the for the real estate fee for buying the apartment so he says close up the guy he says you didn't tell me about this apartment he says i have a contract he says factor the contract so he had signed the contract and this person added to the list of properties that he showed him the new address so he took the basting i think the base did and uh he showed the base then have you got it from the builder that the builder doesn't even know this guy and it had nothing to do with anything so they said to the guy you obviously forged this contract and the guy shrugs worth a try so he says one thing i'm saying doesn't this guy have to pay me any damages or things for freudians no he tried to take money from you he wasn't successful does he yeah so are there such people out there sure there are i'm sure there are so that's the worst case scenario the the more common one that you hear about is somebody like yan shidduchim i might know somebody for you how tall are you they don't know the people or it could be somebody who knows you and they hear about a girl look into it look into it maybe maybe i can't tell you no i can't i don't know do you know anything about the girl anything about me there was a guy who had learned to hire berlin and eventually he moved to lakewood but for ello and the um the ryan he used to go back to hamburg so one of the masjid came over to him and says how come you're not here right he says i go back to heinberlin you know to be with my yeshiva to be with my rebate he says whatever we have to pay him here he says yeah but i go for the schmoozing i go for the physic he says we have schmooze in here too he says you're right what's my wife's name how many children do i have what are they going through right now and of course he couldn't answer the question he said that's why i got a hamburglar because i don't need a generic schmooze i need somebody who knows me and understands me so the ideal shotgun is someone who knows you and understands you and if a person can't look into that okay so i gave you considerations that i considered to be honest considerations in the last podcast of things that you have to consider whether they bother you or not some guys do not want to grow who's older than them or taller than them uh some girls uh do not want a guy who comes from a different country um you know uh you know things that uh comes from a balchuba family there's all kinds of considerations and i'm not here to discuss whether those things are real or not but let me tell you what's not what's not yeah um pesach crone tells the story that uh he was working on a shirak and the family wanted to know does the boy wear thai shoes or loafers and he was trying to learn shot what is it they want to know so he discussed it with a few friends so someone says well maybe loafers means he's too cool they want to see if he's too madonisha and someone else said no maybe they want to see if he's a zorus so that he can put on his shoes faster if they're loafers and someone else said no they want to see if he wants to be mikayam the mitzvah of tying your left shoe before your right shoe so hidafka wants lace shoes um one of the questions that girls have told me that they get asked is does your family use real dishes or disposable dishes on shops do they put down a plastic on top of the tablecloth so i said why do they want to know this it says because if so it takes away from your coverage of shabbos okay i have either a lot of little kids or a lot of grandchildren they're always spilling things pouring things all over if i use a real tablecloth i'll be a wreck if i use real dishes and i'll break them so instead you know we have a tablecloth then we have a heavy plastic then we put a disposable plastic on top of that then we use plastic dishes at the end we roll everything up and throw it all away and i find it adds immensely to our own shabbos [Laughter] so don't even look into my family don't even look yeah but uh that's what's important that determines someone just wrote me they just wrote me today yesterday yeah um somebody asked my father-in-law friday night do they eat chicken soup or vegetable soup he wrote back whatever tomakisha sends this one i thought was a really special one i heard this from more than one girl they ask him when she gets into the car does she wear a seat belt i said that seems reasonable smart you want to make sure that if the internet actually doesn't get killed says no no if she wears a seat belt then it's not sanua i said what you know it's like a coach bag it's not said no you know i said i don't know when when the guy stops short and she goes crashing through the windshield and is lying all bloody and cut up on the road and as the ambulance has to come and deal with her i imagine that'll be much more of a breach of sneers and that made me uh comment not for the first time that clearly the inmates are in charge of the asylum yeah now there's two different philosophies when it comes to this some people say go out go out you'll see that's when i was growing up yeah um people used to tell me you know about certain boys i said listen i said uh i don't have a yeshiva to leave them if they know how to tell some funny stories i'll get them a couple of gigs you know what i mean but uh you know my daughter has to like him yeah so uh like i told one boy you know one of my son-in-laws you know so after they were married he says he was disappointed that he didn't fair him enough i said what am i fairing you for i don't know i don't know you should give you i don't have any yeah i checked into your nice boy you didn't have a police record you know i mean so sure enough one of my other kids went out with a kid and he was trying to explain to me his police record that it wasn't really he didn't really do anything wrong it was all a mistake or like i have such a low standards and i used to say let me go out let them see if they like each other you know because because you could go you could check and you could check and you could ask more kinds of questions and uh you know at the end of the day you know the hard ones with the heart wants somebody just told me that uh he's been dating this girl says everything's there everything's there on paper everything's there i'm prisoner of us i don't i don't feel anything i don't i don't i don't i don't dislike her but i don't particularly like her i said the hard hard ones for the hard ones so what am i going to tell you i'm not going to i'm not going to tell you that you should marry the person because everything looks okay you have to you know uh so there is one school of thought that uh listen yeah you basically check to make sure that they're decent people and decent family and uh you know and then um uh you know let them go out see if they like each other and for sure i mean when i was growing up that was that was our philosophy yeah you go out you know so there are people who uh are willing to do this and sometimes these people complain about burnout it's just too much i've gone out so many times so many people and i just as one of my former students said to me if i have to get dressed up and put on makeup for one more loser and i'm gonna kill myself instead there's only so many you know miserable dates you can have so there's got to be something they used to say about raviol that would make a suggestion and even if didn't come through he would give shahanas so because he felt you know okay it was a habamina and you know each one brings you a little closer to the real one says one set of sets them up with this girl you know right doesn't go so the guy says because i i thought they'd ever give a shout honest to everybody because that wasn't even a harmony did you ever hear this expression opposites attract yeah so burger in his own inimitable way used to say that's for sure not true otherwise you'd set up a beziarco girl with a nazi you know because opposites don't attract things that are alike attract yeah uh ava is like crave things that are more similar that's where it comes from for sure so um uh i'm not talking about external things so there are people who take the philosophy of i'll go i'll go with anybody and there are people who will set you up with anybody yeah oh she's got a skirt he's got a pair of trousers so shut up yeah i'm going maybe who knows maybe i when i was going out i used to be that way and i used to say listen i'm so easygoing i can marry almost anybody you know and i almost never got a second date with anybody including my wife and one of the reasons is because i'm too intense i know that'll come as a surprise to you a friend of mine tried to give me advice and said you don't look at holes on the first date now that's of course an exaggeration but i'm terrible at small talk i'm a very intense individual i have very deep conversations and thoughts and this scares off people yeah but you know so i would take the philosophy go out see what happens and i used to say like i'm okay whatever whatever yeah i went out with this one girl and i came back and someone said so they say you learn from every date what did you learn from this day i said i do have standards [Laughter] i mean this was forget about it it was just so out of the ballpark on every single level and i had people who yelled at me on dates and bought with me and even that i would have considered you know but this one was just claimable i mean it was just nothing you know i was like so this guy so there's something about that philosophy other people take the opposite philosophy which is you check and you check and you check and you check and as one mother once said to me when she called me up about a call about a particular boy said i know the dirt is there i just have to find it and uh okay listen uh caution question is uh is respectable i understand it yeah i'm not gonna tell you that those people are wrong has my philosophy changed yes after two divorces after i have two daughters were divorced and one of the people who gave us false information about the second boy and told us you don't have to check into it because we know them perfectly and everything they told us wasn't true yeah so afterwards he says to me um well there must be something wrong with your family if you have two kids with divorced and i said yes there is i brought my children up with poor values i told them everybody's good and they're not there's some really terrible people out there and uh my philosophy led to problems i saw problems i saw difficulties we should have been more proactive but my attitude was like my father taught me listen you old enough to get married you'll know to make your own decisions etc and uh that was a bad idea definitely a bad idea so now my kids are much more wary when it comes to dating so my last daughter who got married you know she was going with this guy very nice guy and she kept saying to him so what's wrong with you what am i missing i know you're crazy i just can't find it and it turned out that he was really a very nice boy and he was exactly you know but we were set up by somebody who knows us knows the boy and cares about us and wanted to see us be successful and they're happily married with a little baby but uh you know um yeah my kids are much more wary now as you can imagine so like all things the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle uh there is definitely a philosophy of um you have to have me talking i know one family where they did a lot of checking and the other side was very good at hiding it turns out that the mother was crazy and there was all kinds of family problems and then they hit everything they hit everything says they never go to the in-laws uh they're crazy we didn't know we did all the checking with that they were outside everything was perfect they hit everything beautifully so at the end of the day you have to have uh you have to be talking so what's called a reasonable amount of checking i don't know but i will tell you the following and that's what i started with you're looking for a shadrach who knows you and knows the other side and like i say is honest i know shahnam who just want to close the deal and no matter what problems either side tells them they see it as their job to minimize it and to say uh and my father was uh sick with yet he went to speak to this queer rabbit to ask michelle he wanted to stop uh the chemotherapy and do a different treatment but uh we saw this these parents a son speaking to him and there was evidently some problem and they wanted the rebbe to guarantee them that everything would be all right and he says i can't do that i can't tell you i don't have any magic powers i can't tell you for sure this is going to go i can't tell you that you're going to have to make this decision but i'm not uh you know so roller told a story about a couple that were engaged and there were real serious issues and they went to a goddamned israel who gave them a bracha and they got married and then they got divorced and said areolarwick because that's not the way it works you need somebody who understands this you notice that david meller had a rebbe that was the head of the sanhedrin and then he had somebody called the yo aids and the yoast was there to give advice not everybody has a a gift to give advice or to understand this was one of the things that solante did with the muslim movement when he put in amash is because not everybody who gives a great gamora shear and is a great rebbe understands the quickness of a person what makes them tick and how they work and how to understand them that's a hush so like i say you have to do checking if you want to parcel it up very easy to pass it up very easy about this you know i had a nephew got engaged first girl and uh his mother said did you notice this did you notice that did you notice this and he said there's always going to be problems you're just going to pick whatever set of problems but a perfect person you're never going to find everyone has shortcomings that's why in the gemara there's this expression servo mcconnell uh you marry somebody where there's a certain problem and uh yeah as long as you can live with it right there are no guarantees life life doesn't come with a guarantee and uh was real talbot used to say when you have a couple who's having a problem so you'd say uh who's your shotgun they say so and so and we're so upset at him and then that he says no you shall come as a college borough yeah so unless there's false pretenses right you know you marry somebody and then you find out that the you were sold to build goods yeah one of my daughters she was married for a very short time but when she saw there was problems so she wanted to go for therapy he didn't want to go to therapy so she says i'll go for therapy yeah and the therapist kept telling him when he hits you leave just hit me he never hit me he's quiet listen to me again hits you leave and every time she went she would repeat this thing so sure enough when he beat her up she she left and then he took all her stuff in the apartment that i was paying for threw it out of the you know we obviously made a mistake [Laughter] you have to you have to look into it we'll do it but there are no guarantees could we have seen that coming we didn't see that evidently this therapist who she's pumped to did you know so uh so these are some of your considerations to find the person once you find the person then you have to go out on a date that's what we're going to talk about next time we're going to have a date yeah and so you always remember the the difference between tamar and to aina is a fig and tamar is a date because nobody ever dated to inna they they might have gone out with the data tomorrow so remember that so we'll talk about that the next time if you want to find out more about this podcast you can go to my website ruby alaska.com make comments send me an email uh you can uh sponsor an episode uh don't forget to check at the bottom of the page for the contact information uh for sas for shidduchim.org or just re-listen to this again if you didn't have a pencil or pen to jot it down yeah one of the four courses that i took in college uh two semesters in the hope of making my parents happy until i realized i would never make my parents happy uh one of them was journalism and he told that was the most helpful course i ever took so it was by real journalist the guy who had been an editor and a reporter you know and he said the most important thing is keep lots of pets lots of pens because if your pen runs out you're finished but if you have to write there's always places to write you know you can write on your on your shirt cuff you can write on your shirt there's always some place to write you can always write down something but if you don't have a pen parenthetically i'll share with you one other piece of advice he said the most effective way to fold the piece of paper when you're taking notes is in two thirds because then you have six columns and that's the most effective way to get the most onto a paper of course when you're taking notes in shear and then you're left with all these little papers that are folded into sixth it's really hard to find things afterwards but uh it is interesting so don't say i haven't given you any you know life uh experience from this so uh that's the story so until next time i am deborah rolowski and this is the robin golovky show it's the rabbi orlowski [Music] knowledge and wisdom will help you grow lots of fun in every episode and we don't have to ride [Music] till next time till we meet again throughout my orolowski show it's the rabbi orlowski show it's the rabbi yorlovsky show