A Podcast For Baalei Teshuvah With Rabbi Zecharya Greenwald PART 1 (Ep. 250)

hi this is D olowski and welcome to the r olowski show whether you're watching with our friends over Ator any time whoever you watch or listen to your podcast as always we're happy to have you along and don't forget to sh like share subscribe and comment you know the list keeps growing each time of what we're asking you to do so uh you know this is a participatory uh uh um program and we have a sponsor and uh you know I've I've been making an appeal uh for sponsorships because uh we really needed to go on and we got a few and we could use some more but thank you a special thank you to all of you who responded so uh so uh quickly to be able to keep the show going this is sponsored by bamin a not a bamin bamin a yeah thank you rowski for your inspiring meaningful and humorous podcast it's one of the only Torah Jewish podcasts I can listen to from beginning to end me too I have no patience I'm a huge fan and also agree that The Show Must Go On thank you benam a and uh we're waiting for Benin b c and d to send in their sponsorships um we have a special treat for you today and that is from time to time on the rabbi olski show we have Theus to be able to have some guests now I have to tell you up front uh I have received criticism in the past that I talk too much when we have a guest and uh I don't know if that's true um I I obviously have things to say otherwise you could just have watch their podcast and you don't have to listen to me but I do tend to make observations I am the voice of the people that's what I do here I'm just sharing it so we have with us this week uh re Zakaria Greenwald a pillar of K for many many years and uh he's written new book called The Life After chuva which is available wherever fine books are sold and frankly also where not such fine books are sold they they they're in the same place I I went down to check out some of the farm stores and there are some not such great books there but this is one of those jams so Rabbi Greenwald welcome to the rabbi olowski show thank you Rabbi olowski it's a pleasure oh it's a pleasure hours and and of most people who no very Greenwell will know him from a couple of places they'll either know that he has been running the maor Seminary for 25 years 25 years good Lord he started when he was 16 isn't that amazing and uh and of course from his column in uh the Mish and before that hamodia and the hamodia as I remember that's where we I was actually I was coming in and going out that that the record sh opened my or when I was 40 yeah Y no way really we're the same age yes oh good lord I'm so sor sorry well one of us held up better than the other I'll tell that one I just came back from the dentist and uh you know and uh basically you know we said at our age and wake up in the morning and nothing hurts it means you're dead but anyway so uh uh yeah I only have one cavity it'll be a lot of good I think we'll maybe we'll just film that and put that on just listen to me scream in pain half an hour who wouldn't want to watch that but anyway but your uh your credentials go back much further than that so you now and the reason I say this is because your background is in bakov bakov and uh and theum in the Mish and the ham was of course aimed at a audience but this book is about how Bali chuva should be able to progress so that doesn't sound like you have a resume to speak about balich Chua so there must be more going on in the re zakara greenw World background that needs to be brought out to the four to explain what brought this to uh to fruition okay um I'll start with the very very beginning um my mother is a balos Chua so I grew up as the son of a of a woman who in in college discovered jish K and has been in an inspiring and inspired uh woman ever since so they had the famous Ronald green wol was definitely not definitely not right um the he know he came from a Hungarian American family we have to come back one time and just talk about your dad right that would be a you know I had the of knowing him but right now we're talking about the book okay so um the um so that's I was I grew up in a home that had that presence and definitely that affected me and and and I've let's say I've lived with that for since I'm born that's you're 65 so that means your mom had to get from in the 60s no my mom was already married in the late 50s so how did she become a b chuva she there was no chuva movement yet I know that yeah that's where SM said they started in the late 60s yeah yeah yeah yeah she she was one of those extraordinary individuals that found her way on her own through well no one does it on their own but with the help of of of people but if she wasn't looking the 1950s if she wasn't looking for it she wouldn't have found it in the 1950s she did yeah late 19 what was her background where did she come from um she came from New York he's Flatbush uh went to T sh went to Tien High my grandparents were not shmer shabas um I grew up with my grandparents beautiful relationship which is a story in itself it's in the it appears in the book um and yeah she were they traditional on some level yeah they they went to a conservative they went to a conservative they belong to a conservative SCH right um they never I don't they were never shabas um when we used to go for meals they would buy meal Mart and and and paper plates and uh they didn't keep a kach home even they never no and they and they didn't and they never came even to a sh they came to us often we've had them over but they never never spent the shabas together wow so your mom was Mish before before it was in V before it wow it's amazing yeah yes yes and and she's an extraordinary woman and well read and and knowledgeable and a very very special person in her own right but but I grew up in the house of Abalos chuba with grandparents that were not from so it's not like um right the world was not foreign it was not it's not a foreign World um You Wear It Well I know my family was never shavis and I meet people who say well you can't understand balich Chua because you know having grown up you know from home you don't know what it's all about and I'm like wow am I doing a good job so you might grew up okay so that's a changes a whole perspective that's that's number one number two where'd you go to school I went to uh tar me she was Spring Valley she went to all the mainstream places she was Staten Island she wasach sh I I was not too many other people there had parents who were Bal Chua no it was not it was not common my in my day they were not it was not so common the B Chua movement is considered to have started after The Six Day War right yes so your mother really beat the rush absolutely and not only not only that but in my class they were almost was it was rare um in my in the in in my school today I'll get to that let me let's let's go I'll go in the order of my introduction to the concept as a as a teenager I went through a lot of very very deep thinking and and questioning periods I would say that um intellectually I'm AA meaning even though I never really went off the D hasem I was too scared hasem helped me that I was a scared to cat so I didn't do things that that were dangerous and I felt going off would might be dangerous because what if I'm wrong so I kept on but intellectually I went through a very very serious introspection and learning process I would say that if not for H I probably would not have stayed from Wow in spite of a very good education and good schools but intellectually I had so many questions I was thinking about so many things and and the Yeshiva movement in those days didn't really have and there was no there was no material there was no reading material H saved my life right so intellectually I definitely went through a process where in my head I was not part of anything and I had to find my way and discover and find myself at the risk of being controversial I would go so far as to say the yeshivas discourage that kind of thinking um I I don't believe they discouraged it I believe they had no tools to deal with it I don't think that I don't think that that would that would be a um a very damning statement and and it could be that there were people and maybe today there are people like that some but um I don't think that that was the case I think that they they just had no tools to to to deal with it that was not they were they were building they were building schools and in those days there were a lot of people that kids that came from families that were traditional not so from they were being taken into the Yesa system but they were creating a system they were not necessarily bringing an intellectual process into the into it so they're taking kids and kids were becoming from and kids grew up in a religious institution so they they were they were from they weren't B Chua in the sense of of of an adult or even a teenager making decisions and and and and moving in any case that was number two number three was my re RBA my re was a was a b Chua really I never heard that yes um his father was a um was a professor of uh Linguistics and of and uh and Lit Literature in two German Universities at different times wow um he grew up his mother was from he said if I ever if anything ever became of me it's cuz my mother's F by by Hadas nerys but his father was not he went to University he only came to yes when he was 22 years old wow I understand that he started he started keeping MIT said already at the age of 12 that's what I understand from the um from different different pieces of his of his biog of biologic biographic uh um pieces but he only he came to Yeshiva to learn at the age of 22 he came to came to the mirror um so first of all he had a very very Broad perspective now this changes my whole understanding of the effect that RBA had on society that he he was coming from it from an outside perspective looking in which changes the whole way you look at everything right even though he definitely became a part of it and integrated to that level of listen so but because AKs came from the outside he's able to write fundamental books on hash for people that other people can't that's right absolutely so RBA spoke to me he he knew was the only thing I was ever interested in and he said to me at one point the next biggest challenge that Kell is going to face is the children of balich Chua was he involved in the Chua movement absolutely and in what capacity he would go he would speak all over the all over all over um mostly in NR right but uh even when he went I was once with him in America he went to AR and they to speak so he spoke eight languages um English he spoke phonetically so you know once uh he once said A boy came late to aad he said sit sit here sit here she says you you be couple it you be couple it he said we didn't understand couple it he says I P it you couple it I'll be the pilot you the co-pilot so he spoke English he understood everything I showed him my poems I showed him my writings um he reviewed his own works when they were um translated which I had something to do with some of those um he understood English almost perfectly but he his speaking was a little bit hard right so he gets to AR and he starts speaking in Yiddish and and Rabbi rowski says they don't understand yish so he went to Hebrew so said no no not not Hebrew she said English we understand that he said okay so he spoke he started speaking he started giving the shear after two minutes he looks up and he says in Yiddish he says every always Al says usually when I speak people think they understand what I'm saying but they don't now they can't even think they understand what I'm saying so but he was involved and he had talim all over the world in positions of ronus and kir um I would probably say that be Yakov produced per capita panovich maybe had the most ra Rabon or reain that came from there where shivas but they had 400 500 thousand 2,000 students weak never went over 100 T and per capita the amount of people that are in cir and rabanus and and and and rash and RAM and teachers is is Beyond in any Cas also very involved in kir yes Ra shapir was very involved in kir and you as you know we we met at his sh many many times ra Shapiro at a at a later time in my life became a very very large big influence on that interesting how many there were certain people who just were drawn to this chuva movement you know yes who both I understand people who understood the the volume and the and the opportunity and the amount of of thirst and hunger that the Nai speaks about the the not no thirst for water and no hunger for food to hear hashem's word is it's mindboggling and it's still mindboggling the the the way things are happening now the dynamic has changed but the The Thirst is is is still considerable in any case he said to me that's going to be the next biggest problem because we don't we are mve people but then we let them go and there's very little followup and there's not enough when a person is five 10 and 20 years later the subtitle of the book which is called life after Chua is 5 10 and 20 years later and basically when I was in ncsy this was a this was a um ongoing problem is that a kid would become from and then that's it now we're done now swim yeah now you're on your own you know but you're CLE cing on in fact there's a major force in kirv today without having to say anything bad about anybody where they give a lot of money to kirv but but there are a lot of strings attached and part of the strings are you have to they have to get fir according to a preet time but if you want to keep getting funding from us so you have to give them a number are they sh shabas are they putting on are they you know that and once they become from you don't get any money for them anymore that's it you're done now move on get somebody else but people need their whole lives absolutely and especially once said to me the biggest problem to day is people need if you can do anything that gives people then you to do it absolutely and especially these people who you know who they're they're they've grown they grew up in one world and now they're living in another world right they were raised in one world they're raising children in another world they were part of one educational system they're part of an educational system that has nothing uh no no frame of reference no frame of reference right a societ different Society questions worries concerns even doubts once like self-doubt these are all part and parcel of anyone that went through such I don't know if I using the word properly Quantum changes changes that are so it's a good that are that that are absolutely in contradiction simultaneously in contrast to what they who they are and now what they're doing of course of course it's going to be questions and of course there a need support um there are two chapters to speak about building a support system because that is what's part of what's necessary it's a um it's it's the the the that is where the book was born at that conversation one big problem and I don't know if there's a solution to this uh but uh there a lot of the from World Works in what's known as protexia that's about it at length in the book that's a nice word for corruption but corruption sounds bad protexia has such a nice sound to it you know these people come in they don't have anything they don't have a grandfather they don't have a this they don't have a famous name they have nothing so they come in and you know I remember I told somebody uh you know aarty was telling me he said I'm trying to get my kid into high school and you know they have a quota I said don't complain to me I'm an American they don't have quotas they can just tell us no with no problem so I once no protect you I I once met with for my father shom for a business deal I met with Moshe mandam mosha mandam was the treasurer of Israel um when I met him he was no longer the treasurer he was a special um special reference to uh to Ukraine and Russia for for Robin for so I met with him about some kind of deal that my father was interested in doing and um I asked him how he how we would get past certain things he says to me you know what I like about Israel I said what is that Professor random says if you know the right people you don't need protea yeah and these people come in they they have nothing so I I speak about that unless they get somebody who's willing to what they call in the police department of Gamel you know what I mean someone who's going to run block for them advocate so so we we speak about that and we speak about protea as not being something that's relegated to the Jewish world that that is the way the world works if you go to Washington everything's protects you if you go to any kind of government any municipal government if you go to a big business protecta makes differ you want to get an appointment you call someone who knows somebody who knows somebody protea is the way the world works it may be it may be a Corruption of in a sense of how things should be CU in in a utopian world everybody would just have equal opportunity but it's not the way the world works and unfortunately the firm world is not in in in certain areas it's not so different because the fact of the matter is if I don't know you why should I why should I trust why should I trust your business Acumen why should I trust your your knowledge why should I I it would be nice if we could meet every single person do a deep interview with them and spend three four hours get to know them and then say okay now you can come for an interview but in America if there was a government uh medical system and uh and there is you have an appointment and I come in and I get to move uh to the top of the list because my mother's friendly with the secretary you go to jail for that that's against the law but that that doesn't mean it doesn't happen okay I'm just saying that like that's called corruption here it's called yeah of course it's prote yeah but when I don't know when go to to to jail but when my father was sick and we needed to get into a hospital special unit and whatever knowing the right people making a difference it's not there is no difference in in in this is human nature this is part of human nature protects you in in the in the uh in the most basic structure of what it is is because I know someone that knows you it makes me feel that I know you as well and therefore have easier access so so I'm skipping a step now so Rola said to you the next big challenge is going to be balich Chua have you worked in any official capacity with Bal Chua so from the my from the youngest age I've spoken to balich Chua I've had um I gave classes to balich Chua um even before I was even before I was a rebi just as a young man we had hundreds of of vich Chua come through our home um we had many that moved from there on rist would bring them Friday afternoon to our house or shabas morning depending and M shabas he come to take them and often to Yesa right and there are numerous um Bala some living in Isel some in America that their first introduction to to yudish kite was in was in our home um this is something that has gone on for the 45 years we're married but you weren't in an official capacity so I was never I never wor you worked with yes I worked with kids that were having a hard time difficult time um and again many of those kids were kids of bichua and this is really my fourth and most powerful introduction to B cha world and that is that in the 38 years that I'm in um when I had a Yesa for kids that were having a hard time and the 25 years that I'm in in girls K I would say the 30% of my students are children of alicha so I've gotten to see the the the wonderful and beautiful integration of many and the very difficult and confusing and challenging of others I'll tell you something interesting Albin who was running or in Chicago at one point and he had another fellow who was much younger than him in who had been in as well and they came to a very yesion and they said between the two of us we could tell you that about 60% of the minion started in nor and not one of them will admit it yes he they won't give us any money because Thea from Lakewood will come and come to my house and give my children a I'll give him money why should I give it to I want to forget that I ever came from that world and that's really a part of the problem because when a person feels first when a person feels that they have to hide and and and and run away from that past yeah that is an indication that our society has not yet fully appreciated understood and accepted the belua world and and that might be because of some some who have a hard time integrating right but um when I when I went to raron Feldman who who gave me an approbation for the for the safer has for the safer um and I I knew I know him for many many years and um I know that he's one of the few englishspeaking ranim that could read the book and actually have a day on it so the first time I I gave it to him I had had a publisher that was looking to publish it but he wrote 180 on the book 180 things that he thought were wrong with the book that I would have to fix I gave it toar Feldman with his all of his Corrections and I asked him if he would do me the be kind to to read it and tell me you know should I just put the book away and just he read it from cover to cover and he said there are three points that you have to deal with one is the H anything H has to be has to be reviewed by by so I spoke to I sent him everything that was alic and he gave me he responded with an okay on everything a little bit more make a little bit more lenient on one or two things and then he said but you have to write in the book whenever there's a book you should speak to your Rabbi because is very complex um two other things that were was some that were were minor but he three out of the 180 the rest he said ignore I did not publish the book with that publisher but he was a he a wonderful man he spent many many hours on the book and I appreciated it in in my uh in my uh acknowledgements and in any case um when I G came back a second time to ask him for a has for an approvation he said he doesn't he doesn't really have the time and um but he read it already I he had read it a couple of years ago and he didn't remember all the pro him and he wasn't in any case I gave it I brought it to him again and I asked him please it's very important that there be somebody of stature of stature that that just uh goes through it and so he said to me how how important it is look how I some people are so so many are so integrated I said yes there are and some aren't he said I was King last week I went to a bris of somebody who was a of M in and that's why I went to the bris he's the he's the gab he's the president he's like the whole he's the whole Mar in his when I walked in he didn't even come over to me because he didn't want anyone to know that he went to I said Riva doesn't that tell us that that this that we need to understand a little bit better the world of B Chua and that if a person feels that he's so he did so well and he's so successful he has to hide why can't he be proud of the of a of of an unbelievable process of something so extraordinary that he did and where he came from and look where he is now that's something that he should be that's that's not something that's uh um you know there is a concept in in in the mishna of you don't tell a person right you know that you used to do this AA but to say to say that if a person would be proud of the fact that he came from somewhere and he learned a lot and he and he grew R Lish you know yeah R Lish is held up as that's you know the guy was a murderer robber and he became one of the biggest you know for sure for sure RAB AA we know he an a downright Highway man he was 100% right he was he wasn't about Chua but in a sense he he he was nams that would have bitten he was he he came from his M hostility yeah pain explains that he thought that that didn't respect him because of the in any case the the the point being that there's a my introduction to that world was was very very deep from when I was born through the way I grew up through my own education my own processing and through the um the uh the the education of RBA and then the 30 years that I'm being o in and dealing with the the girls the boys their parents and the extensive interaction with parents over all these years and the 45 years of having people in our home so I I would say that I've deeply entrenched and involved in the in in the world of bichua Weber called me up once 30 years ago we spoke we we had a Casher he was was a very extraordinary I don't have to tell reberg was a giant he asked me if I would join him he says I need a lieutenant I need someone that I can that that I can trust and that that could work do my vision and they we do and and I'm getting older that's why he used to fire everybody every eight years right he says I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to need somebody I said your your job is to bring people to the firm world my job is to make sure that there a place for them to come to right there that there should be education for kids that don't that don't fit and that don't need and so he said oh whatever he whatever it is at that point we parted i i as as friends and we stayed close for for all the years but he understood that I that I understood this world he he was he he knew we had conversations after over conversations or years that he recognized and and felt that I I was able to be a part of that work 1983 he said to me he was asking everybody who he knew I was running NC SW Long Island at the time he says if I gave you unlimited money what would you do to save kille I said I would double the salaries of every rebi and every MOA and every day school in America and he says I'm talking about kir I'm talking about saving clel you know he says I've got a proposal here in Brazil I a proposal you know what are you talking about I said let's say I take you seriously because nobody does but let's say I take you seriously you're going to make of a million people you're going to drop them into a broken system you're putting them into a into a barrel with without a bottom and they were going to fall out again when I was in ncsy the The Last 5 Years if a kid became from I didn't send him to a day school because I knew he'd get turned off the Judaism I kept him in public school and then sent him toel because the system is broken I said you if you don't have an infrastructure if you don't have a successful from World then how in the world are you going to integrate these balich Chua into it you need the and that's why the most effective Gus we had was B that people didn't want to leave why because first all the and went there and they built all the institutions and they had the infrastructure so when clel came there was a system and like this you drop people in and this is what your book is about these people come in without any guidance without any support you know and they have to find their own way now you've delineated this into 510 and 20 so how did you come up with that where you go from 5 to 10 to 20 what or is that just random could it have been six and5 yeah it definitely could have been 5 10 and 20 are numbers that are easier to right to to spell um I because you're saying between in the first five years there's a certain set of challenges right then after 10 years there's a different set of challenges then after 20 years a different right and and and we go through all of them and there's we we deal I try to I I think when I asked you what you you thought about the book you said comprehensive oh yeah that was the word you Ed right because this is a big when I when I was I'm I've been writing a book on on uh marriage and K I've been writing it now for the past 20 years but uh the beginning um I I talk about 50 years ago what did people look for when they got married 30 years ago 20 years ago and today what do people look like and the list is completely different when my parents got married they wanted to marry a Jewish person to bring up Jewish kids that was their main goal and everything else was secondary yeah you want to fight someone attractive and you wanted to make sure you make a living Etc but that was that was your main goal today I'm looking for someone who's going to fulfill me entertain me take care of me so if you don't look at the progression so when you look at someone who becomes from you say what's the challenge of someone becomes from obviously somebody who's a balua grandfather has a completely different set of challenges as a guy who just you know got married and moved into a community and said H which I always thought was very funny you know ASA Torah they realized that their name was too hard for balich because they would say a Torah so they just called it a they took away that or has no mercy or and then they made a Col called like let's just have some fun at the Bala expense they can't possibly pronounce I'm in meak anyway but I tell you there's there was also a little bit of difference in the culture of ishor and and ar ar was very interested in the integration meaning they took guys with again everyone could have their DEA what's right what's wrong I'm not but integrated guys to go to Yesa and to learn become so the integration and yeah learn how to say m because that's where you're going to col guy you know that and and H was more of a basic introduction and then that was very interesting I taught in then I went to and I came up with a definition of the difference and both places agreed with me not only both places agree with me they we would say but that they wouldn't um or yes that's it they didn't have any other uh agenda it's a Yesa for beginners but that's our goal our goal is to teach how to learn gar and therefore a guy who's been learning here a number of years and goes to the Mir is a big success aor is air movement to save Kel as much as we need a yes to train people we do but if a guy stays in the Yeshiva or or goes to the miror and doesn't go out he's a failure he has to go out and save CL so I don't know about today but I'm saying when I was there you know 20 years ago that was the definition each Place said yeah of course but they wouldn't say that you know of course of movement and says no we're not we're Yesa you know so so each one has their own agenda so uh yeah so okay so let's start off the first five years this guy is fragile what's the I don't know if you you have the statistic what what percentage of people become from um give it up in the first five years I don't have I don't have percentages I don't know if anyone does really but it's enough to look at some of the blogs that are out there and of of frustrated people who went through different institutions even good ones even very special institutions it's there's there's definitely a voice out there of people who who didn't find it there also a very silent voice of people who just disappeared and they they came they became religious they became a little bit more religious a little bit less they didn't find shid they did find shid right and then they just disappeared um that's a very that's a silent number that's a that's a big number um I I've I've I've had wonderful girls from the best schools whose um who one of their parents are not really from even though they're living from lives they're they're living they're part of the community but the girl says I don't I don't know what to do my my mother puts the stuff on the stove after shabas I'm I'm not allowed to eat that like what once she learns what am I supposed to do so there's there's there's there's a silent um I don't know numbers and I don't know if anyone does but there are a lot of people that don't that don't make it don't make it in the first five first five years are critical yes and that's why the most important thing I think you said is they have to have aort system system it was interesting I was at the project Inspire convention and two different people mentioned this they said you know we got from through project Inspire and we didn't know how to keep it going there's a community in B park that is designed to be M Bal Chua balich Chua come in they're in the heart of B Park deepest Bar Park and they take care of these these these young B jua you know it was uh it's amazing not you know but uh the where where if you had to advise somebody where would you tell them to go I I think of a few places I wouldn't tell him to go but where would you tell him to go they can have a support Community um first of all mo more in the out of town communities in in for some because that's again it depends how integrated the person already already is Right does he have a rebi does he have a Yeshiva that he still belongs to there the book is not necessarily for a boy who has a rashash Shiva he doesn't need me right I it could be that he'll appreciate a lot of the things that are being written because uh he'll feel validated and and understood and maybe have some good points to think about good thinking points but he doesn't need that book right um the the sa was written for somebody who is not who who doesn't have that very strong anchor right and that's unfortunately most mosta um because even if he has a rub in the Shool he can talk about certain things there are a lot of things that he would think are taboo he doesn't even know that he can speak about um I've had this you hear from people I went someplace for chabas and I'm finding all these laws you know and I didn't know um if I'm allowed to flush the toilet and jais whenever I hear the story I say yes absolutely so so my mother tells the story that she that there was one professor in in uh in college who was very upset with her that she was coming from this ridiculous Orthodoxy you can't tear toilet paper on chabas and this and my mother says what what so she went back to whoever she was working is that true that you're not not allow that that's the very beginning process that's the very beginning process but as I start becoming from around 12 okay and once you become from now you're open game now people say me why was there a holocaust I was like I don't know I'm trying to figure out toilet paper to T for shabas and I know I didn't do it okay that's all it wasn't me like how much demands can you put on a person so the first five years people were fragile so you would tell them to move to I would tell them to move to a place where there's a community where there's a where there is Poss said Milwaukee when when Rabbi when tski was yeah yeah well there's still a r tski there you know right okay you know so uh yeah so could Milwaukee there are many many families in pic has a very very large community which automatically makes it a little bit supportive I'm not sure that the schools are supportive in understanding but the the killas are supportive in understanding um there's a um again M every Community today has a large population but you have to know how to find them MH you have to know to look for the people that you need I I for a family that's becoming from at a later a age I think it's better to be in an out of town community where there's no judgment and they can find their way slowly say l judgment say no judgment depends where Phoenix Phoenix is pretty easy going yeah Phoenix and Houston and and Dallas and uh and Atlanta there are there are definitely there are cities that that really are are welcoming and understanding to to people that are who was a Reby for many years in America and then and then in t um I saw him in America and I said what are you doing he says I'm starting a program in Houston he says not even for B Chua for my my kind of boys who come back from americaas and and places like this they don't have a place to go so I'm building them a community in Houston yeah which I found amazing you know so you have to find these things yeah you have to find them and again I resources I'm in the book I in I gave some books as resources I don't I can't give people as resources without uh getting their permission and I didn't get permission from the few people who I yes because they're already they're overwhelmed I think we're better off today with each person finding families and I speak about building a support system a finding a family near you somebody that you went to for chabas somebody that you know in the community and that you can attach yourself to um it's also about not having family one of the when when when I ask very often I've asked the girls in their interviews um tell me something special about your parents being balua and tell me something that's challenging right so there are those who say nothing everything's wonderful most most girls will say well it's inspiring and it's good to know that my parents made a decision and helps me understand that there's something to it and some of them say my parents are still growing and they're still interested um one of the hard things the two hard things that come up more than anything else is one we have no family no extended family and two is that they don't know what to tell me to they don't they can't help me in school they don't know what to tell me they don't I don't have I don't have the direction that I need I had that experience when I moved to a because my father his father came from Poland never learned English English so my father had to make it completely on his own I grew up as an entitled American I moved here and my kids are like my father because I can't help them I don't understand the Israeli system I don't have any connections they have to make it on their own you know and so uh it was interesting the Jewish Observer they had an issue dealing with this and this one this one family wrote in and said you don't understand the things that you take for granted that don't come to us for example you have a Bobby and Zi who are going to buy your kids a shabas coat well not everybody's going to buy us a shop is cat we all those little perks that you get from having a fir family we don't have those that's right absolutely you know absolutely and and and and building a support system and learning to deal with understanding your own position being validated and there's a lot of validation in the book just of a person understanding okay this is this is actually what I'm experiencing right and these are some of the ways that I can re reframe it or rethink about it um you know there's a there's an interesting story of two neighbors that were that had babies more or less at the same time one nine brothers and sisters uncles cousins BRS grandparents and one sister didn't speak to her for five years no no no grandpar nothing and they're they're both uh in the same Hospital one next to the other and you know and and she's feeling so lonely and then the rabbitson from the Sho comes the box of chocolates and says to her you know uh whatever the name is uh you know take advantage of the rest I don't know how KH is going to get through this because she hasn't she hasn't had a moment of quiet since since she had the baby and and you have time to take take this precious time to rest because when you go home it's going to be beautiful you know so it's it's just yeah it's it's sometimes it's just a reframing another way of thinking about something another way of appreciating and understanding your your situation obviously that's not going to make her right take away all of those feelings of I wish I had nine brothers and sisters um but again it's understanding and validating on one hand and also learning to reframe and and understand our position and where we are so two points one is my friend YY Rubenstein has a website that allows Bal Chua who've been from for a while to give get them resources and hook them up so uh we'll we'll we'll give that out to you but uh but my wife uh always points out says when you make alah and you leave most of your family in America your friends and neighbors become your family that's right so for balich Chua the friends and neighbors are Mish their family it's not just absolutely absolutely but people have to know how to take advantage of that there are people who are shy yeah there are people who have a hard time reaching out but if you don't reach out you're alone and and learning that's another thing we speak about is recognizing the the importance for your family of you learning to reach out and get the support that you need I had a guy who came from he was an older single and he told me after X number of years of still being older single he says I have to give up being from and I said why goes I can't take it the the fir world is not made for single people he says you know I sit with the other you know older singles at shalas fighting over the tuna salad and I said I can't live this way anymore that's definitely a challenge it's another one of the challenges that's spoken about for sure it's a very it's a very it's serious challenge for a fir for a fir grow is that something that sometimes abouta doesn't understand right that this is where family sometimes becomes even a bigger burden because when Mom and Dad are on your case every day why you're not married because in The Firm World why are you not married and they worried about you and they're concerned about you and they're always thinking and and everywhere you go it's the pressure is even worse on a single on an older from single than on than on a balua single B Chua single things I'm single because I'm a BAL Chua in the in the and and that's not the case you're single because in the in the secular world the nuclear family mommy daddy and children is now the minimum it's it's the minority of amilies in America yes you know and uh a lot of it's being run by to quote Senator Vance uh childless cat ladies yeah it's just to throw a little controversy out there if be Cent you know all right so the first five years is really now 10 years we're assuming at that point you're married you got kids and the challenges change because because you're you're dealing with building a family again in a society that is very very different you can't you know you're you're the grandparents want sometimes want to help in some ways as sometimes they don't want to help it depends and we speak about both healthy grandparents and unhealthy grandparents um and they they want to buy your kids the things that all the other kids have in their what they see on on television as being all kids have and you don't necessarily want your daughter to have biologically uh [Laughter] you know correct dolls and you may not be interested in in in in certain kinds of electronics and and so it's it's it's it's starting off transgender baby life right it's just it's just raising your children or beginning to raise your children or finding your way with a lot of hardship because like you said you don't have the same support right as as someone who has a mother grandmother and and sisters-in-laws emotionally and financially emotionally financially and physically just somebody to come in babysit somebody to come and and take the kids for a day I'm watching little kids more now that I'm a grandparent than I did when I was a parent I remember when my when my youngest son um one day said to me they're winning I said who's winning he said there are more if one more baby's born they're going to be more grandchildren than children oh we're way past that so are we a number of times over but but the the point is you have more you have more grandchildren to watch than you had children to watch that's right that's right but in any case I watch in my generation you know my parents had six boys 37 grandchildren and over a 100 great grandchildren Kina hor so uh you know we're we're I'm just trying to figure out that if all my kids get married and have children you know in even reasonable amounts how am I supposed to make a SATA for 100 people I'm trying to work that out I'm going to need a bigger house so now we at 20 years right yeah no 10 years 10 years right so so at 10 years already we're dealing with a more complex family situation usually again this all depends on how people are building the family where are they living now now they're already parasa is is a is a very is a very very big issue there's so many people struggling in in all over the world just financially and struggling with with three or four kids is not struggling as a couple or with one child right right so there are there are new struggles there are new questions what am I doing what I what I wanted to do am I doing what I what I what I should be doing uh is there other things that we should be looking at or re-evaluating and that's something that everyone has to do in life but again because somebody's coming from a different world when you look at the at at at the form world you know it's not perfect because you've seen the imperfections and how and that's another thing that people are dealing with and 10 years later you're feeling it more because children getting into schools and so on in different in some cities and some of the bigger Metropolitan um from areas um at the same time looks like they' it all worked out the firm world is the worst world except for everything else someone would say that about democracy democracy is the worst form of government except for every other one so from world is you know with all the problems or Usos there there are many many challenges we're in gullos for 2,000 years we have we have lost leadership we have we we limited limited leadership the the community is growing by Leaps and Bounds and there are there are not enough person when when the when the when the call it a d yeah an orphaned an orphan generation there from people have a hard time like you said when you mentioned R gisler and what he's opening up in in in Houston girls have the same questions the same problems whether they go back to school boys leave yiva and then and then what so if you had a Kesha with a rebi you're okay but if you don't you're also somewhat lost the only difference is is that you have a family and you have a frame of reference right B doesn't even have a frame of reference for these new situations so it's a very the challenges are often similar but they're magnified to the B Chua and then very often he or she will think they've got it all worked out I'm in this situation because I'm from mhm and then I start questioning one second what did I do what did I do and and and I go through in the book different at different places things that come sometimes come up as to why I question myself now and whether or not those are really they're valid because I'm asking them but are they but let's try to replay it okay let's let's go back to where it started and let's go back to to what you really have and what you don't have and what you'd be going back to if you let go of it so it's a it's at 10 years there's sometimes a lot of rethinking at 20 years we're dealing with teenagers and marriage and and and these are very very big very very big for f people for for everyone right but for bichu even more there are at least 300 girls over the years that have asked me if I could help them figure out like or help their parents they never they never had anyone in sh before how do you do this sh thing how do you do it they they went to college they met people and and here that's not the way it works so you have to call you should do research you shouldn't do research some parents say no I don't believe in research you'll meet them just meet anyone that's willing to meet you and then that's very very disturbing and challenging for some kids and and some parents overdo it my father could not figure out the sh system right why you why go out and have a good time yeah that's what we used to do go out you know or or even within the fir world you know and they would have a young Israel dance you know what I mean go down to the boardwalk and meet somebody and said what is this you know got check out everybody and this and this and all this the negotiations and stuff just go out see if you have a good time you know that's right and I could not explain it to him no no you can't you can't and that's why many of these many of these people many of these uh young kids they they're coming and they need the support of their of their former mentors to help them navigate the system now it's a trism I don't know if it's true but it's a truism that um a lot of the of the kids are coming from families that are balich Chua it's true yeah it is unfortunately [Music] true it's the rabbi orlovski show to and S ready to 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