43: Bored in Shul

Hi, this is Dovid Orlofsky and welcome back to the Rabbi Orlofsky Show Episode 43. And whether you're watching on Torah Anytime or wherever you listen or watch the podcast it is so exciting to welcome you all back. I will give you a little a little secret. The last two episodes were pre-recorded because I was in America. I just got back and I have the worst jetlag I have ever had in my life. I couldn't sleep at all last night. I couldn't close my eyes. I went to daven vaskin. My wife says, "Are you being religious?" I said, "No. I can't sleep so I might as well daven vasikin, it's easy." It's easy to be be religious when you can't sleep. So I saw some guy there who I was surprised to see me at vasikin and I said, "Okay, I'm jet lagged, what's your excuse?" He's really religious. That's a shout out to my brother Bruce in West Hempstead he davens vasikin every morning It was funny to say, but he does it religiously. guess Billy waited that was it. But anyway, this is Episode 43. We have a sponsor. This episode is sponsored zchus for a shidduch for Hadassah bas Bat Sheva. Wherever you are out there, I give you a bracha that in this zchus you should find your zivug bikarov and be zoche to build a bayis ne'eman b'yisroel and to be able to have a zera shel kayama and do great things in the world, all those good things that that we look forward to. I went in for my niece's wedding and it was so beautiful and I said over this idea from Rabbi Shapiro where he says finding a zivug is like kriyas yam suf. So what is that one thing got to do with the other? The splitting of the Red Sea? I'm translating because I got a an email from another non-Jewish listener to the podcast who likes to listen in It's unfortunate that this is where some people get their entire picture of Judaism from. Reminds me of a Star Trek episode where somehow the only thing they knew about the 1920s Chicago and they they all set themselves up like mafia groups and stuff because that's all they do. So I encourage you to listen to other people. I know they're not as interesting as I am. There's nothing you can do about that. That's just an occupational hazard. What can I do? Parenthetically, I'm gonna be in the States for Shabbos Nachamu. I'm gonna be up in the Catskill Mountains in Vacation Village a bungalow colony. I don't think they call them that today and I don't know if it's open to the public. So I'm not giving out the details. I have to check and find out if I'm allowed to mention it. Because otherwise hordes of people through the Catskills will be coming on Shabbos. Maybe shaylas of techumin, I don't want to get into it, anyway, but I'll be around, you know that week so hopefully everybody will be well showered and bathed and groomed by that point so I don't have to deal with the unwashed masses. However having said that, I am available for a Tisha B'av program. Anyway, I don't really care, just mentioning that. Anyway, so I was just in America. It's amazing how many places I went to that people listen to the podcast and I had kids in elementary school, high school, college, adults of all ages, sizes, ethnicities... Which I mean, Hungarian, Polish, Sfardim, Chassidim. All walks of life. That was so inspiring to know that we're doing something and everybody who listened they said more or less the same thing. "There's nothing like this. There's nothing like this." It's true. I have to mention although that in my last podcast I mentioned about the Daf Yomi show that I give here in Eretz Yisrael and I received a number of emails of people saying why don't you put the Daf Yomi shiur online and I have been asked to do this on a number of occasions by a number of people. Let me explain through why I not doing this. This educational consultant came to a school and The teachers all came in for this seminar and he says please say your name and what you teach. This one said, "I teach algebra." This one said, "I teach chemistry." This one said, "I teach chumash." And when they were all finished he said to them, "''Not one of you gave the right answer. You teach students. That's what you teach and the subject is secondary to the student." Everyone knows the gemara with Rav Preida. The student took 400 times for him to get pshat. Go over it, go over it until the person understood it completely. That's a particular student. So when I give my daf yomi shiur, I'm teaching the people who are there and I'm trying to make it meaningful and relevant to them. Whereas somebody from the outside listening in might not get what we're doing. Maybe. Because I've always had a tshuka to do this. There's this program you can get where you have like twelve little windows or sixteen little windows or something like that and you can interact with all the people at the same time. So I'm thinking maybe I'll start doing some shiurim like that, that you have to sign up for a private kind of thing and you know, and we could have a private kind of shiur where we're talking about We do a like a daf yomi every week. But the idea that there has to be an interaction. The gemara says and I remember hearing this from my rebbe in high school, Rabbi Yaakov Weil. He says you're supposed to watch your rebbe's lips. Did you ever see one of those shiurim more than once, or you're listening to a tape? And the person makes a bracha and your answer 'Amen'? Well it's not really happening, right? It's recorded. It's not real. You can't just put it in a tape of Megillas Esther, and hear laining on Purim night. There's something that comes from a yachas. I'm not going to translate this. Those who appreciate it, appreciate it, and if not, you know, it's just one of those many things that you miss out on. When I used to have tape cassettes that I made my shiurim from. So whenever I turned over the cassette, (This was like real high-tech, I had to actually turn over the cassette and put it back in) I used to make some kind of joke. So when the tape comes back on you hear everybody laughing and the people at home were like, "I missed that joke." And I said, "Yes, some things you have to be there. There are some things you have to be there, and some things that only only make sense in that particular context." So this past Shabbos in America, there were they lained in the morning Shlach. And so of course, Shabbos Mincha, they lained Parshas Korach. So he knew I was a Kohen, the gabbai, he called me up, he gave me the Kohen aliya. There was a Levi, he called up the Levi, and then he wanted to give out the Yisroel. They had just lained Rishon and Sheni of Parshas Korach, you know, of the of the Monday-Thursday. So he goes to a guy, he says "Yaamod!" He says, "I'm a Kohen." Goes to another guy. "I'm a Kohen." Goes another guy, "I'm a Levi." He says, "Are there no Yisraelim here? Rav Lachem Bnei Levi!" That's only funny in the context. This I'll explain. The possuk says that when Moshe Rabbeinu says when people from Shevet Levi were demanding the kehuna, he says, "Rav Lachem Bnei Levi. You have enough already. Be Leviim. It's enough." So he says, "Rav Lachem. You took the whole shul!" It was only funny in that context. You know, in that moment. I said, "That was one of the funniest lines that I had ever seen ." But it's only in context. So anyway, somebody came to Reb Moshe Shapiro, and he said, "I'm a talmid from the tapes." He never met Reb Moshe. He used to listen to the cassette tapes. And he said, "A person who's a talmid from the tapes ze kimo mi shenisabra b'ambatya." This is a famous gemara sugya that I will not go into more details than that. But basically what he's saying is that in order to be a talmid, there has to be a relationship. But you're not a talmid. You cannot be a a Virtual talmid. You have to have a personal relationship. Parenthetically, my good friend, Rabbi Albin, who's the head of Torah Hub in Chicago wrote me and said, "You know I've been listening to the podcast and when you have an audience, it's always more enjoyable." Yes, it is. Yes, it is . Especially because no one ever knows when I'm joking. That's why I can get away with so many things because people could always say, "Well, maybe he's joking." But he says, "It's better with an audience." I will reiterate, I have given a call out there that we are available we usually, usually, although there are exceptions, we usually tape the show like around 6:00-6:30 on Mondays and I had people who said to me, "Oh, I so wanna come" when I annnounced this the last time. People live in Israel "We want to come." People who live in America, "We're gonna fly in. We're gonna come." No one ever came. Gornisht. Or 'gornit' for the Litvaks. Nothing. Nobody ever came. So sometimes I pull together some of my family members, you know... "Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Thank you very much. Thank you. That's..." They tell a story about his guy who was at a convention and it was speech after speech after speech and this guy was like, you know one of the last people to go on, And he gets up and there's one person in the audience. And he thought, "Okay one person." And he gives this whole drasha, he gives this whole fiery drasha, It's two o'clock in the mornings, there's nobody there. He said... And when he's all done, you know... So he goes up, he walks down the stage in this enormous auditorium and he says, "Listen, thank you so much for staying." He says, "I wasn't staying for you. I'm the next speaker!" So, once again, we're making an open appeal to the audience. You could be a member of the audience. You can enter a drawing. If you want. I can draw whatever you want. I'll give you some paper, some pens and we can have a drawing. But anyway, these are just bits of business that I need to get through. I'm recovering from my American trip. I've so much that I really want to talk about and and that brings me to the subject of today. All of this was by way of introduction. What I want to talk about, and This was fascinating. I was in a shul, I don't want to mention where and what circumstances. I was sitting towards the back because baruch Hashem it was a very crowded shul and you sit towards the back so there were four people behind me and they were talking through most of the davening. Now, my days as a mashgiach are well behind me. I have never found that asking people to be quiet has ever been effective. Never. My good friend, Rabbi Benyamin Hammer who works in rabbincal training in the Young Israel movement, National Council of Young Israel. So he said to me, he says, "You know the talking in shul is a big problem. Everyone discusses, what do you do?" I said, "I would not have a problem. He said, "What would you do?" "I would announce" 'I'm not shushing you. I'm not telling you to be quiet. You want to talk, talk. Talk as much as you want. There's gonna be a hashkama minyan at eight o'clock. Anybody who wants to daven will go to the hashkama minyan. We'll daven, we'll listen to laining, there'll be no talking. We'll daven. Then I'll come upstairs to the main minyan and I'll sit by my podium, my shtender, and I'll give the drasha and I'll shake hands with everybody. But I can't daven 'cuz everybody's talking. But I'm not gonna shush you because if that's what you want to do, kol hakavod. Talk! Talk as much as you want." I was in one shul where people were talking so much and I said, "Why don't we take out the bima because nobody's listening to kriyas hatorah, and put in a big long buffet table and they put coffee cake. Why are we even pretending to make a show?" Now by the way, there's been this big movement to you know, stop the talking and sure, there are all these videos that all of the other famous rabbis and speakers were asked to make. I wasn't asked. They may have asked me and I might have been talking to somebody at that point, you know, during davening, so that's why I didn't get the gig. But it's always.. Just if... Forgetting about anything else. I'm not talking from a halachic point of view. From a sociological point of view. My rebbe, Rabbi Weil, he told the story over in class once. He says, "These two guys behind me are talking the whole time. So I said, 'You have to come to shul to daven?' He says, 'Yeah. I got nobody to talk to at home. I could daven at home, I got nobody to talk to.' " Anyways, I was in this shul and the talking was geferlach, which means, quite a bit and rather intense. So I was at his Shabbos table, and I said, "This great idea. Let's take out the bima, let's put in a table, you know, coffee and cake. Let everyone just you know, shmooze..." Anyway, one person at the table is like sinking into the ground. Evidently, I hit a sore spot and everyone's looking at him, you know, So I said, "What so...?" He says, "I'm one of those talkers." So I said, "It's a good idea, no? Just put in a table, coffee, cake." He says. "No, you don't understand. By the time I get to shul, the hashkama minyan is already having their kiddush. I could just go downstairs and have a kiddush. I want to come to shul." I said, "But you don't daven." "Right. "You don't listen to laining." "Right". "You don't listen to the haftorah.""Correct." This is something I've been grappling with. So at the end of davening, I say to these guys, "Listen, I'm not saying this to give you mussar. I just wanna understand, why come to shul? What's the point? If you come to shul and you talk? So one guy who obviously was defensive, and he's like, "So you're saying it's a myla, you're saying it as a shevach?" So I said, "Yeah because me, I'm an amazingly honest and consistent individual. I don't like to do things that I don't like to do." I was talking once the people years ago about why they're frum, and why there's that. So they use the typical yeshiva guy technique. "Who are you? What do you do?" I said, "You can't bring a raaya from me. I'm a baal teshuva. I decided to do this. But why are you doing it?" So I said to the them, "Why do you come to shul?" And they said, "It's a shevach?" I said, "No, of course it's a shevach. I wouldn't do it. So why don't you have you know, you have a chevra here, take turns every week going over to someone else's house and make a kiddush. Everybody can go in the corner and do a quick shmoneh esrei or whatever it is you guys do. And then sit down make a kiddush and enjoy yourself? Why sit here in a shul that's over two hours of davening with laining, with this, with that... Wouldn't it be more comfortable?" So one person gave an answer that was poignant. He said, "What if nobody comes?" "Oy yoy yoy. That's the chevrashaft? You know, you can't trust your own guys who come every week and sit at this backtable and talk and drink, you know, that they won't go over your house?" I thought that was sad. One guy said, "My wife will be upset if I don't go to shul." Well, that's interesting. I knew a fellow who was somewhat traumatized from his youth. His father used to make him go to shul from the time he was a little boy and sit there quietly and if he talked, he smacked him. So when he would go into a shul, he'd get a panic attack. And he started to say, "I have a problem, because what am I gonna do with my kids my kids? They're gonna want to go to shul with Totty and Totty is is gonna break out in a sweat and hyperventilate, you know, and pass out if he has to go in the shul." Which is a real, real challenge. No problem. So it reminds me of the story I heard. It's a famous story. There was a Sfardishe rav, he used to give her a shiur and this fellow used to come in you know, it was after maariv, he would sit down, and say, 'Kvod Harav, etc.", you know and as soon as the rav started the shiur, he fell asleep. And he slept for the whole shiur. At the end, when everyone got up, he got up. [said his] "Kvod Harav..." Day after day, week after week, and month after month. So finally the rav said to him, "Listen, you'd be more comfortable if you just go home and go to sleep." He says, "Kvod Harav. I want nothing more than to go to sleep. I get up at dawn. I'm a laborer. I work hard, physical labor a whole day. When I come home all I want to do is take a shower. have supper. and go to sleep. But I want my children to see that I go to a shiur." Want them to see that Totty goes to a shiur. So okay. So his wife wants his children to see that that Totty goes to shul. He said, "Okay." The third fellow said, "I was brought up this way." And I've said this more than once: 'Everybody does what everyone does 'cuz that's what everybody does.' Why does everybody go to shul? Because everybody goes to shul. Is it meaningful? Do you enjoy it? Do I want to do it? All of that is irrelevant. Everyone goes to shul because everybody goes to shul. So I'm coming back to my original question. When I said to this fellow in this other community where everybody was talking I said, "You know, why don't we just put out coffee and cake?" He says "No, I want there to be davening and I want there to be laining, but I don't want to participate." Now obviosuly it's not true because you're coming. These are the people who during the dancing at the chasuna, stand on the outside of the circle waiting for someone to pull them in. When this guy said to me, "It's a shevach." I said, "Yes, zicher it's a shevach." Schar halicha b'yado. You went. 'Holaich v'lo assa...' Okay. 'Schar halicha b'yado.' There is a zchus that a person gets for going to shul, even if I don't daven. No question about it. I don't know if talking covers that. But I understand why people were talking. Because since the davening has no meaning, to sit quietly for two hours was a very difficult thing for Jews. Jackie Mason once said at a show, "We're gonna have here an intermission because Jews can't sit and listen to a show this much. They have to talk. To go outside. 'What do you think of him?' 'I never liked him, he's a loudmouth.' 'You're gonna go back in?' 'I paid already, I might as well.' " But everyone wants to talk about it everyone wants to give their opinion, 'What is your opinion?' And people can't sit quietly, I I don't mean this in a bad way, I'm the worst, I am the absolute worst. I don't know how to sit quietly and play well with others. I was gonna be on a panel at a particular shabbaton, it's not important where, with some very chashuva rabbanim. And I said to my wife, I said, "I gotta get out of this. I don't know how to do panels." So she said, "Why?" I said. "I don't know how to play well with others. I don't know how to sit quietly." She says, "What do you mean?" and I suggest to do the same. Project inspire Convention, I remember two years ago [or] three years ago, I was there. And they had a panel, a discussion on kiruv. And I was on the panel and I just don't know how to behave nicely, 'cuz I have a big mouth. That's why. 'Cuz I'm gonna give my opinion on everything. 'What is your opinion?' The only time I was on a panel but I felt like I didn't have to talk was at the Encounter Conference in Manchester run by my good friend, YY Rubinstein. I don't know if he watches this podcast or not, but I meant to call you. I'm sorry. I had my wife with me, w were running around. We had a lot of family obligations. I apologize. 'Cuz he always gets angry at me and when Scottsmen get angry they do it right. Understand? Anyway, there's this great story about where he fought with the non-jews in Gateshead who was starting up with the Jews there. He was like, "You want me to put this ehh up your nose?" When he was telling this story over, my kids were like, "What?!" 'This ehh up your nose?' The best way I get him annoyed is when he speaks in a Scottish accent and I switch into Shrek. But anyway, He says, "That's rubbish!" So he was running this Encounter, and I remember it was me, it was Yonason Rosenbloom, it was Rabbi Sinclair, and it was Rebbitzen Heller. They would ask a question and every single person on the panel would answer the question. Even though it was addressed to one person. So for example, Yonason Rosenbloom is very involved in politics and things like that, you know and so somebody asked him, "Do you feel the chareidim in Israel are doing enough to reach out to the secular?" and he gave his answer and then everybody else gave their answer. It was Jonathan Rosenbloom's question! And then they came to me, and they were long answers, people have a lot to say, they came to me and they said, Rabbi Orlofsky, do you feel that the charedim are doing enough to reach out to the secular in Israel?" And I said, "No." To tremendous applause. But that wasn't my favorite. My favorite is what they said to Rabbi Sinclair, "Do you miss your time in Hollywood?" (He was in Hollywood.) "Do you miss your time in Hollywood?" And he gave an answer and then everybody including the moderator gave an answer to the question and then they came to me and I said, "How can I possibly answer the question if for Rabbi Sinclair misses being in Hollywood? How could everybody have an opinion?" Okay, so part of it is people don't know how to keep their mouth shut, it's part of Jews. There is is a deep reason to this. Reb Moshe Shapiro said once, he says, the person sits down in the morning, he reads the newspaper and then he turns and he yells at his wife. "What are these people doing... (unintelligible)?" "That's it. I solved all the world's problems." For some people that's not enough. They have to call up a talk show. And they call up and they say, "I'm very upset, etc...." and hangs up the phone. Baruch Hashem, solved all the world's problems. Why? Because we understand that the Jew affects the world through speech, Because God created the world with speech. 'B'asara Maamaros nivra haolam.' With ten expressions. 'Baruch She'amar v'haya haolam.' Blessed is He who spoke and brought the world into existence. So we understand that dibur is a very powerful thing in, and you know, 'Hakol kol Yaakov.' That's the power of the Jew, it's the power of speech. So you tell a Jew to be quiet, it 's such an unnatural thing. And that's why there were people who've always opposed when they have Remembrance days here in Israel, they say have a moment of silence, a minute of silence, or two minutes of silence. That's not what Jews do. Jews don't sit quietly. And if you don't believe me, go to shul. That's just not the strength of a Jew. A Jew talks. A jews davens. 'Hakol kol Yaakov.' So that's part of it. Part of it is they feel a need to be able to comment, to make observations, or you know... I was in a shul once where this guy is talking, and talking, and talking. Finally, the rav goes, "Shah!" And this guy turns around goes, "Shah!" Because we understand that we are in a house of the Lord and there's supposed to be a certain level of decorum. But people want to speak. But this fellow was describing something existential. "I want to come to shul. No, I don't want to daven." I had a fellow in yeshiva when I was mashgiach, and this fellow was clearly not cut out for this yeshiva. He was not able to maintain the standards and I said "Listen, this yeshiva is not for you. You should go to yeshiva X." He says, "I don't want to go to yeshiva X. That's for bums." I said, "I know. You're a bum so you belong in a bum yeshiva. That's just the metzius. You don't get up in the morning, you don't come to davening, you don't learn, you havg out in town at night. So that is the definition in Yeshiva language of a bum, right? You know, I don't mean that in a bad way, 'vedibarta bum', you know, I mean.. That's where you belong, where somebody can deal with your things." He says, "But I want to be in a good yeshiva." i said, "You want to be in a good yeshiva and not maintain the standards?" He says, "Yeah." So there are people who want to go to shul. They want to go to shul with davening, and with laining and they don't want to listen to the laining and they don't want to the listen to the davening. Because something inside of them, as that fella says to me, "So it's a shevach. It's a shevach." They want to go to shul. But you realize how heartbreaking this is? This is the fellow who desperately wants to be able to daven, to be able to learn, to be able to enjoy it, to get a geshmack and he can't. This is what we talked about last week when we talked about the learning. But the davening is the same thing. People don't know how to... People want to come to shul and they're lost. They don't know how to appreciate it. And this is one of the challenges of the life of a Jew. 'Va'avadtem...b'chal levavchem. Aizehu avoada she'bleiv? Havey omer zu tefila.' Serve God with all your heart. What is the service of the heart? Tefilla. And I point out 'avodah' is work. We have this image that we're gonna open up a siddur and suddenly the words are gonna have meaning to me and tears are gonna come to my eyes. It doesn't work that way. You need to prepare. You need to invest. I talked about this during our Pesach Program. Newsflash! Somebody called me up and they said they're actually interested in making a Pesach program in Israel, with... "You'll ask your family doing the programming." So we'll give you further news that in fact develops, but you know, it'll be in a relatively small hotel. So, you know, you're gonna have to book early because we're gonna have to beat the crowd with sticks. That'll be one of our activities. But anyway, so you've got to feel the 'shibud'. Feel the Egyptian slavery. Yeah, anyway, so we're gonna have a few people with sticks. Most of the people will be Jews. So anyway, People want to connect, they don't know how. It's not gonna happen automatically, you have to work at it. So start by looking at the siddur. Pick a tefillah. Take the first bracha of shemoneh esrei. The sefer Cheshbon Hanefesh says, these two people wanted to down with kavannah. So one guy says, "I'm not moving on until I daven the whole shemoneh esrei with kavanna." And he sitting there and daveniing... And the other guy says, "Listen that guy is too intense for me. I'm gonna start with the first bracha. When I get that down, I'll get the second bracha. Then I'll get the third bracha. Eventually the first guy gave up davening 'cuz he had a nervous breakdown. The second guy, it took him a long time, but he davened in the hole shemone esrei with kevanna. Okay, geometry. Yeah, that's by the way what an acorn says when he grows up. But anyway, anyway, I work all age groups, by the way. But geometry, what is a point? A point is 'a point in space with no dimensions'. It's obviously a theoretical because something can't exist with no dimensions, that's the point. What is a line? A series of points. The minimum amount that you need to have a line is two points. But as you add more points, you develop a line. That's how you get a line. So if you want to have a linear tefilla experience, you have to start putting in points. You have to find words there that are going to be meaningful to you and when you see them they should speak to you in a way. Why did the Neviim have to write the tefillos? Why? Why don't we just get it a poet?And by the way, when you see people try to write tefillos they're very difficult to do. Somebody once asked, I was on a question and answer panel, they asked one of the other rabbis, "What do I need tefilla for? What do I need a set form? You know, I'll just daven." So he says to him, "Try talking to God for 10 minutes straight without repeating yourself. You'll find it's very difficult." But the reason the Neviim, the prophets had to write the prayers was because it had to relate to every person in every circumstance throughout all the millennia that we have been around. So inside of those words are meanings for everybody. Find a line, one phrase, and when you daven, let that be your phrase. Think about that and then mumble through the rest of it. Get a good translation of the chumash. If the ivra is not exciting to you, the Hebrew doesn't do it for you, follow along, read the story. I'd rather have somebody sitting in shul during the laining and read the story, than just talk because that has no meaning to them. Read the story! Okay, so Parshas Mishpatim? A little slow. Vayikra, eh, okay. So there are art forms to understanding these things as well, obviously, to be able to find the relevance the meaning in it. But there's so many stories, especially Bamidbar, it's filled with stories. Beraishis, Shmos, they're filled with stories. Alright you hit the mishkan, it slows down a little bit. But you know, for the most part there's so much there that is so 'maanyen'. So, this is our challenge. Our challenge is to go to shul and if we can't enjoy it... On Simchas Torah, there was this Am Haaretz who was dancing with a tremendous bren and the Vilna Gaon says, "What are you dancing with so much excitement for? You don't learn." He says, "I'm dancing because there's a Vilna Gaon who learns." So, if we do nothing else. Let's find somebody who can be a symbol for us of what tefilla should be and just watch that guy. Try to make it meaningful to us in that way. But that's it. This is the struggle. This is the avoda of tefilla. So that's it for this week. We have revised closing comments. Somebody complained that we we were giving TMI in our closing, too much information. So this is the new streamlined ending. So work with me here, see how this works. That's it for this week. If you want to find more about the show, go to RabbiOrlofsky.com where you can add comments, see my upcoming events schedule, and contact me directly. For sponsorships, (this line we're not taking out) visit RabbiOrlofsky.com/podcast and click on the 'Sponsor an episode' button. It's great to be back. My name is David Orlofsky. This is the Rabbi Orlofsky Show.