Where To Cut The Challah Before Baking - Mishna Berura Daf Hashavua Siman 167 Seif 1

Okay, good morning everyone. We're continuing in Mishna Simmon. We began that last week. Let's we're going to continue inf let's just get some of the background. The began by saying that you break the bread where it's baked. Well, the Rama says, "What does that mean? Our bread, you should break it on the side of the bread and you cut a little bit from the top and the bottom." Then the Mabra says you should cut. Now, we never saw anything in the about cutting. The Ramo was the one who chimed in that you should break it on the side of the bread and cut a little bit from the top and the bottom. So, so far all the said was your bit is different than being is where you literally break the bread is where you make a little either simmon or a little slice from which you could break the bread. So the way the makabra began the began that you break it where it's baked well the ra says it should be on the side cutting on the top and the bottom then the ch says you should cut the piece that you're going to break and then says you should actually cut it a little bit. Now let's go back to gimmo for a moment. The mishabur brought two gers uh in the gumar. One ga is you break it where the bread crusts and cooks. Some say that's the top which is a tanner. Some say it's the bottom which is uh and therefore you cut from the side the top and the bottom. And this way you would say both. Some say no, you cut on the side which is opposite the place that cracks. So in other words, let's say you would cut it on top and then crack it open from the bottom because this is where it begins to break. That's one ga in the garra. There's another. In other words, there according to one ga it's shamasim. According to another ga it's the ga that the brought out and um the way the explained that is according to that. It really bakes equally on both sides. And therefore you you you could uh bake from the top or the bottom whichever one you want. Then there's another possible ga rashi has a gaim bishle where it where it crusts. Okay. So there are two possible ways of learning uh what the gamarra means. where it bakes first or where it crusts first. And it sounds like these two locations are not necessarily the same. It may crust differently than where it it bakes. The crusting is only the exterior. The baking is more of an interior fully cooking. Th those were the two opinions that we saw in the bear. Today we continue where the says [snorts] the says and then says this is an explanation for the first. Here's the explanation. You make the and then you crack it open so that the whole should be on full bread. So there won't be a big delay between the eating and it will seem like an interruption. The po right is good to cut a little bit. How much should you cut? Very little. You should cut very little. Then you separate the from the past. So basically the point of cutting is to minimize the heik between making the and being able to split the and eat the bread. Why from the it sounds like and I don't think people do this. Let's say you're just having a slice of bread. So the is you're supposed to cut it first. You're supposed to cut it first and um and then make and then break it where you cut it. So the mish says even when you're cutting a pussa, don't cut it completely cuz this way the pra seems bigger than it really is. Now, I have not seen people cut if they make a on a slice of bread, cut the slice of bread first. But it sounds like the way the mish is learning the you should cut the pussa before you break the bread. Why? >> Maybe the prera is talking about is a large piece that's going to be cut from to eat from >> whatever it is, but it's not a shame. >> Yeah. But it needs to be cut before you eat it. You don't necessarily have a ray. If a slice of bread, you have to break it before you bite it. >> The ray is that's what he's saying because the purpose of being is in order to minimize the shy. So why would it matter if it's a shale or if it's a >> bite into this piece of bread as it is? I'm biting into sh anyway. Don't need to cut it. The piece which is so big I need to cut. So I need to cut first to minimize the length length of time it takes to cut. There is no cut. >> So you're saying the den of cutting is only on a non is only on a big paras. Okay. That's still a kadesh. People don't do that either. People don't typically cut uh first let's say you're having a roll. Uh people don't typically cut the roll before they before they uh before they break it. They just break it if it's not let's say you have a half a roll. People don't usually cut it. Here the the simple reading of the seems to be saying okay otherwise now why should it be just a little bit if you cut it so much to the if you would hold that piece, the rest of the loaf would not come up with it. >> It would break in half. It would be considered like it's broken. So in other words, what's the how much should you cut? You should cut it so much that if you hold the sliced part, the rest of the loaf will come up with it. Otherwise, it's considered kapusa. What does that mean? If by holding the pralof would not come up with it and it would break in, it's already considered separate from the kar. even if he would hold the bigger half the small half would come along with it. This would not be called that it's shal. So it would be a lack of if you would cut it completely. That's why we just make a little simmon. You leave what you cut attached to the bread and you begin to make a bra says the um this is going back on what he said earlier that you cut the piece that you're going to crack off and you leave it and you make the braha. The says after you finish the you should separate so that the should be on the pass being whole and based on what the bro said that even in a you should not cut the same sorrow would apply. You should leave it attached to the pussa this way. >> Shouldn't it say should it should it should be larger than near what does that mean? It should appear larger. >> So it means you have a half a roll. >> If you have two pieces, you're supposed to make a broth on a larger piece. If you have a half a roll and you're only going to eat part of it, you should first slice it but only a little bit because if you're going to slice it completely, the braha is going to be going on a smaller of bread as opposed to if you slice it to begin with. Then it's only >> you want you want the braha to be going on a you want the braha to be going on a bigger piece as opposed to if you slice it first, it's going to be going on a smaller piece. >> I don't know. I just found it should look it should look larger. >> Yeah. Because as opposed to No, his point is it should look larger as opposed to when you have a kar shalim. It's not only so that it should look larger. It should be that it's going on a shale. So here you don't have a sh you're not dealing with a shalom because it was already a half a loaf to begin with. So it's it was never a shalom to begin with. >> Yeah. But I thought the Indian are making on the larger is the same same Indian as shalim. It's more I guess nearer. That's what it means. Means more. >> So it looks bigger. Yeah. It's it's not really more. It's a half a roll is a half a row. Whether there's no difference between a quarter of a roll and a half row. There's a difference between a shalim and a piece. But looking bigger is a kashivas. >> Did we clarify the difference between and what exactly the definition of? And then you have a proof. So what? Yeah. >> What's the order about? Did >> you're cutting here's the kala. You see the kala? >> Yeah. >> Basically like this ba does not mean to cut it. Ba means where you break it. There's an in of sapas. So where you where do you break it? You break it where it's baked the be the the best or where it's crusted first. Those are and therefore the what the what the rama says uh that's the top and the bottom. You want to break it from the top and the bottom. The way the mish explained that is um the says the purpose of cutting cutting is just to make a simmon where to break it. So am I supposed to do I don't listen or do we do bit nowadays or we go straight to is is beta is beta just the first cutting just the first slice that means >> no >> we do with a knife we don't do you break >> so that's so technically speaking the first cut is the and the then we we use a knife because it's not going to cut evenly you know and it's going to be a little it's going to be somewhat ill-mannered to start cracking off like that. But technically speaking, speaking, you make a little cut. That's and then the full cut that we make is is but it would seem like >> and then the next cut after that is the first cut to cut it in half is the is no >> talking about the marking before. >> No, no, no, no, no, no. When the says that's cracking it before you do that you cut it. He explains this is how the explains the the you first make a sim by cutting it and let me explain to you what that is that that's not going on the that's going on the original. So >> I read the after you did the there's now there's now there's pieces. >> No. >> So you cut those pieces. >> No. Nope. No. That's how the mish explained it. No. The mish first case is is you crack it. Okay. That's the that's the you're breaking it. Where do you break it? Where it's baked the best. happens to be we get very caught up in the cutting because we make this little simmon and then we take it further. But our taking it further is the our original cutting is what the refers to as the now. Okay. Now back to you want the when the when the bread is complete. Don't break off a little tiny piece. You look like a stingy person. Not a tremendous piece cuz you look like you're gluttonous. So the mish says lesson is not proper. That's if you're breaking it to eat it immediately. This is not breaking a big piece from the kar and then cutting from that for if you're going to if you're going to break a large piece from which you're going to cut, that's okay. It would almost seem like that this whole simmon is a pretty strong crit critique on how on what we do on Shabas. Namely, it doesn't seem like we're really doing it correctly. It seems like first of all in most houses they make a little cut on the top and then they make and then they cut it down. That doesn't seem to be correct. The m the the Ramos says furthermore who does that's not typically what you see except for maybe one guy claims he saw a guy in Pic. But you know we'll have to we'll have to cross >> this past Shabas I made you to do that. >> Okay. Someone says, "So you're telling me what you said on Thursday was that it's referring to what you were going to do." Okay. But um and then who's baya? Nobody's really baya. It sounds like you should be bitya by actually cracking it. Now an ata would be to make a little simmon to actually crack it and then after you crack it, you could cut for at least your mia. Okay, we have to examine this for a little bit more. Let's just end off with this. Um, the Rama says you should not cut the until after the so that it should be If you forgotten, you cut like during the week. Okay, we'll have to see what what's over here. Nobody ever said you're cutting it in a way that makes it not a shing. The himself said that that you should cut it. So it's still a shalim. So what's the Rama? Why is Rama jumping on the maba? The makaba never said you should cut it more than that during the week. The agreed it should be shal. Okay, we'll hold it. We'll hold we'll hold it here. >> Recording stopped.