Tisha B'Av and the War In Israel - Talkline With Zev Brenner

thanks for joining us buckline Network radio America's longest running Jewish broadcast network the voice of the Jewish Community welcome to the podcast you are now tuned in to this episode of our podcast today we are going to interview some of the greatest and most influential Minds in our field and now please welcome your host you're listening to talk line with Zev brener America's Premier Jewish broadcast on the air since 1981 and we're back it's always great to have Rabbi Daniel J gladon with us he is a Rob and founder of M M heran cedur New York pfic writer popular speaker respected maget cheer and even though his book came out last year it's called the darkness and the dawn V Mur Tish the forfest and Holocaust Memorial the anguish of the gas and the glory of Jewish eternity by Art scroll good to have you back again hi so the question that's people are raising this year in advance of Tish in light of October 7th what happened at Sim Torah should there be a k should be a eulogy that said in sh on Tish to commemorate the tragedy of October 7th yeah so you know as they say even though this is a a new issue uh there's nothing new Under the Sun a very similar type of issue was raised uh in the years post Holocaust whether whether a k should be said to commemorate the tragedies of the Holocaust so in in the standard art scr kenas you have the K written by RIM Schwab you have the K written by the B ofba it was very interesting to me that the question was brought to Rak and Rak did not endorse the custom of citing uh saying any kinos for the Holocaust and his reason was that in our generation he says we're not capable of adding new liturgy in order to compose Jewish liturgy you have to be of uh Divine Spirit you have to be someone who could have rues somebody who knows how to compose words that can draw on the uh drawrings of the heavens so to speak and know how the heavens operate and know how to utilize certain phrases and and wording and we're no longer capable of doing that so for us in our pedestrian language to compose a in a way is insulting of the caliber of of the rest of the did not uh did not endorse it Rebel yashiv did endorse it and one of the rationals being that when it comes to kenos as opposed to let's say the Sid we have some precedent that we're we're authorized to compose a lamentation in our own expression there's AER the was written by ra ra was a student of the AR he's actually many you don't know he wrote the that every Jew says when they wake up in the morning that was written by the author and he writes that every Jew should compose uh akina in their language so that the the destruction of the temple is not just something of past history but it's something that is personal to them something that resonates with them so based on this precedent of the S Rabel Yash did endorse the uh recitation of AK kinna for the Holocaust and Rak still said that only allows each individual Community to decide on their own how to commemorate it but to have a uniform recitation where all the congregations say the same K we're not authorized to do something like that and sort of rebelos said he agrees you know he's not legislating that every single Kila should should say the same K so the same thing with October 7th there wouldn't be anything wrong if a particular kahila wanted to at the end of the kinas express uh some type of Ken for what happened on October 7th but we don't have the power to legislate uniformally every single SCH has to say this particular um formula or this legislation you know in other words every Kila should decide on their own how best to commemorate it but it's certainly is appropriate to uh to mourn for for that tragedy as well because tab is a day we mourn for all tragedies that beell the Jewish people since who were exiled from the land yeah and even that is also a very interesting topic because there are some tragedies that are conspicuously absent from the Ken for example the kitki Pam of 1648 1649 where Ric in his commentary K he wonders he says he doesn't know why we don't commemorate that Kenna and I uh in in the book The Darkness and the dawn I believe um in a chapter intitled is the Corbin the source of all suffering um I bring a very interesting approach to answer this question of RAB of of why we don't commemorate the onsh based on a chuva fromstein where RHA Wonders that why is there no fast day for the Holocaust why don't we have a fast day for the Holocaust and ra says well we do Tish so ra says so why isn't there um why don't we mention theki pams so he says something very interesting there's actually a day on our calendar that we commemorate the now it's not widely observed you're not going to meet you know and when you go to sh on a regular Monday or Thursday you're not going to meet a guy he looks very hungry hey why are you fasting well you know today's we're Comm but it is brought in the commentaries on the so it's interesting the Holocaust is commemorated on Tish and the has its own day and yet the we don't mention on T and the Holocaust we do so said as follows any tragedy that is direct result of the destruction of the temple we commemorate on Tish because Tish was inflicted by the Babylonian Empire the Roman Empire and anytime the prevailing reigning government afflicts the Jewish people that should be commemorated on the was not inflicted by the uh reigning government it was inflicted by rebels against the government therefore ra says it's not directly connected to Tish because it wasn't theis BRS was an uprising it was a rebellion against the government in the UK ukine therefore it's not connected to Tish so this this guideline seems to say that the tragedy has to be inflicted by the reigning power which you could make the case that October 7th which was uh inflicted by what we call goosal the Exile of isma which is a power in the world today that would be uh re to Tish and and perhaps according TOA should be then uh specifically commemorated what about the burning of the books of the of the goras of the talmud don't we commemorate that on Tish as well we do commemorate that so the the pal was born was burnt in the year 1240 and they have there was a separate fast day the Friday shus that was a Friday was designated for many years think people face that today so so according to that you would have to say that uh that tragedy was also was also direct a direct result of the destruction of the temple and inflicted by the reigning government in other words the powers that controlled the the countries we lived in they were the ones who perpetrated that crime that wasn't committed by Rebellion against the government but that was committed by the government itself you see we make exceptions but here here's the interesting thing is that we always try to tie in even the Hol we try to tie it into tisue we say well the cause of the Holocaust was World War I which fell out on Tish so therefore the Holocaust also connected to Tish so we try to find a connection to Tish for a lot of the tragedies we talk about October 7th maybe we can tie it into Tisha but I think it's more tied into tmin ataras simplest so you wouldn't believe it but there's actually a chapter in this book and again this book was written well before October 7th the mystical connection between and wow and I want to share with you just briefly we have two nine day periods of the year we have the nine days cominging with TSH and we have the nine days of Happiness culminating with they're sort of parallel on the one hand if you were to ask you know we have on sukus we have special guests associated with each day of sukus who's the guest associated with there's an idea that we read the about it's because the first guests are Abraham yob MOS Ys and David so the Eighth Day and the ninth day is schi Tish of course is um yavi Yia was born on Tish y cursed the day of his birth so we have SCH and we have y but cabalistic Yia was The Reincarnation of SCH it's a well known that yvi was the gilgal of SCH so schlomo represents the day in its happiness and Y the day in its sadness so they're like Polar Opposites but this is really uncanny for those listening you know we have a tune we use for a a haunting tune a many may remember there's one other time a year we use this tune and it's on the happiest day of the year I'm per you're gonna [Music] say right right the H it's the Pinnacle of joy and if you listen carefully to the melody it's The Melody of what's going on there's only one slight difference ends on a sad note um so it is it starts with that tune but because it ends on a crescendo it ends on a high note it's completely transformed so you know there's an idea when mhia comes M will still be one of the 24 books but how are we going to Lan it so we we're going to borrow the uh upward end and it's g i like the and even though perm also we we read the Milla we do read a we do throw in a few yeah absolutely yeah we're speaking of Rabbi Daniel J gladin he's a prolific writer he is Rabbi the RV of of the congregation M mag heran cedur New York and his book came out a while ago it's called The Darkness the dawn dealing with Tish and the fast days fascinating what you said about the fact that there's a connection between Tor and of course uh the nine days and and Tish just a fascinating combination in your book you write about the Holocaust and you write about General Dwight eisenh how and the closenberg rby why don't you share that with her I think that's a fantastic story yeah that's um you know an account that you know we're very proud of that our grandfather who is a survivor of all the Dark Places D radam and and aitz by the way in aitz he saw the Muti from Jerusalem my grandfather sawman invite the Muti from Jerusalem to aitz he saw akman and the Muti holding each other arm in arm they would March Jews in front of them and they would beat them in a way that the Jew would never be able to procreate and that was their entertainment so you know people question did the Arabs have any role in the Holocaust of course they did so this is an eyewitness to come my grandfather in any event after the war my grandfather's liberated he had studied English um before the war so he was made the head of the religious Department Of The Joint distribution committee and in that capacity he was given an army uniform um a Jeep and he served as Eisenhower's translator to the kenberg Reba and the kenberg Reba's translator to Eisenhower so on that faithful day that Eisenhower came to the camps on uh yum Kipper and Eisenhower uh the Clen MBA got up to speak and he strengthened the people he encouraged the people he said that if God saved us we have a mission in this world to resuscitate to resurrect those who had survived and Eisenhower was visibly and moved and shaken to the core and Eisenhower turns to the kenberg rabba and he says Rabbi how could I help you what could I do for you and kenberg RAB said you know it's yam Kipper sukus is coming up we need the the four species we need the dollar minim and Eisenhower shipped dollar minim to the camps for the survivors that arrived at my grandfather's desk and I have uh pictures of my grandfather Distributing these DAL minim to the survivors after the Holocaust so amazing story and the Clos M reg certainly I think was a great figure in helping to rebuild yish kite and dynamic individual and you know he shared The Angst of what people went through the Hol and still you have to have faith in God and and also the life of the kba is very revealing and very telling because before the war he had a different attitude toward AR Israel but because of his experiences he changed his mindset toward AR Israel and not only did he become very open to settling the land and rebuilding yish K in is but um he engaged some of the the early founders of the state and he was willing to work together with them with them to try to help bring traditional Judaism back back to the land in fact um you know this is one of the most um important insights to me on the Kennis you know we we say about 45 kenis on Tish and if you you study the last 10 kenis they're really not kenis at all they're not kinis is something that laments tragedy and destruction the last 10 kenas that all begin with the word c are not lamenting tragedy they're extoling the virtues and the grandor of the land of Israel so what are these doing here why are these kinis how are these kinnis how how are what are the last 10 kenos doing and I believe that these are very important because one of the most fatal errors that the Jewish people made that caused tiab is our apathy toward when the maragam came back with their bad report we cried and we showed that we we have a disconnect between the people and the land and the way to rectify that is to stir within ourselves a longing and a yearning and appreciation for is so the last 10 kenos are the objective of the first 35 kenis we first mourn our error and then the last 10 is rectifying that how do we Rectify our mistake by changing our attitude toward by extolling its virtu by praising it by by ex singing about the Beauty and the grandor of and what's very beautiful to me is that when the kenberg Reba came to for the first time after the war he was on the plane he was reciting these 10 kenas that kenas extolling the virtues of is and that wasn't his attitude before the war and this was a change of heart that he had and rather who also was anti and during the the Holocaust he wrote where he went from being anti- Zionist to becoming Pro wonderful wonderful safer yeah if I if I can I want to share I once had the privilege to uh travel to ER Isel with my grandfather on the plane and he was on the plane saying to hm like he always did and then he pointed to um a PK to me and the PK was you saved my soul from Death my eyes from tears my feet from being Cast Away I walk before God in the land of living a reference to walking in is and he said Dan this is my life referring to the fact that Hashem saved him from the death camps and now he has the privilege to go and walk in the land of Israel that's a big privilege but let me ask you this question the reason why we have a Tish above why we're exiled from the land is because we had sin we hated each other we fought with each other unlike the first Bas of mes we were brought back we didn't keep shita we hate each other shouldn't be incorporated into Tish means or maybe some kers or something as far as extolling a haves or loving one another why don't we incorporate that we don't even greet people on TI above yeah so that's a good question so uh if I'll give you an analogy you know in the world of technology if you have a problem with your computer you know you turn it on and just everything's Haywire what do you do when you don't know what to do with a computer you turn it off and you restart it so when you have problems with interpersonal relationships we don't know what to do so on Tish we just turn it off we don't look at each other we don't say anything we like restart you know we turn it off and we uh we basically looking for a reset of our whole relationship you know in the of of I believe shabas we talk about how in the times of theban people it's not that they didn't greet each other they gave each other fake greetings they say good morning how you doing but we don't really mean how you're doing we don't really care how the next guy is doing so the Novi criticized Jewish people that you greet your friend without any thought so worse than not greeting someone is giving an empty greeting so Tish you know we like stop everything we put everything on uh hold we don't even look at each other and uh we try to give it a repeat try to give it a new a new start when Tish is over you know I like that answer because we we go we would think Tisha we should be more friendly but we we have to reset button and we have to reflect as to why we're in this position I believe it was the satar rebbi who said and I want you to comment about that this has to do with the N Ro people don't realize that even though he was known to be an anti-zionist he was asked by his nephew the seov who became the satma rebbi is what does he think about the fact that there will be establishment of a Jewish day will it happened this is before the establishment the state of Israel in 48 after the Holocaust and he said that depends who's in control of the land he said if it's the Arabs that according to the Zohar according to the Zohar the Arabs is Will as long as there's AUM don't hold out in other words because they have a Brisk meal they have circumcision even though it's flawed it's not the way we do it they have certain merits until their merits run out and then we can't take it over but he says since the British are in control therefore there will be a state of Israel but if be the Arabs it would depend if their merits right I'd like you to reflect on that Zohar regarding ismo and also Israel and the land of Israel okay so it's well known that Zar says that what is the Merit of yal in the land of Israel it's the bris so in a way it's frightening because they do have that Merit and they continue to perform the bris but rakov ketki had a different take on this rakov kamet comments in par V when Abu made a treaty with a to allow a to stay in the land keski says what's this doing in the T why is why do we need to know AB allowed AB to stay in the land so the Rak says you know the was the king of the Philistines the Philistines throughout Nim are the Quint Central arim through out the whenever we talk about Philistines they're always called AR dozens and dozens of times so what the t is saying is that even though maybe cabalistic you may come and you may see references in the Z that the the strength of yesma because of BR it's not such a big deal and the proof is even Philistines could be in the land of Israel and they don't have any mil at all so rakov so to speak he downplays the whole Merit quote unquote of the that they have the Mila because you see even Philistines are there and they have no Mila at all look um whatever was predicted beforehand was prognostication because the reality is it's here there is there is a uh a state right and it is whatever we make out of it you know because the more the more yes and the more observant Jews and the more people keep Tyra mitzah and is the more we will be able to lead the country in the direction that we want so it's it's a gift like everything from Hashem but a gift is only as valuable as what you do with it just getting back to the pelishtim a made a treaty with the poish they wouldn't harm their descendants and that's why that ping the T the a were in the land and the Torah says the Korum came from kaor and they got rid of them yeah the reason being is because since Jews couldn't take it over directly but once the Korum came in and got rid of them then Jews can have the L go this week's para exactly no I'm say it came to mind when when you were speaking so that's another way of looking at with the Polish is that there was a Convent between aam and the pisham yeah very good but certainly we live in the truth is we have an ER is RO and we certainly believe that a KES bar who wanted this state of Israel to come into being came after the ash of the haloca similarly after Egypt we had millions of Jews died in Egypt millions of Jews died in the Holocaust we have the state of Israel we've seen lots of Miracles and hopefully this tissue of we'll see lots of miracle in fact there's a story that you and I spoke off the air by Rabbi shaiek that talks about Ral Sheek to M University regarding studying about Tish and share with our audience what he said yeah from from what I understand uh RAR has a difficult time studying the laws of Tish because of his deep belief that mhia will come and these laws will be obsolete so I mean I've had this to meet R Shar I once even hosted him in my Suka because I live in Rabbi shar's neighborhood and uh I will say that after he spoke in my Suka I have never seen anyone say with with as much kabana as I saw with my own eyes so he's someone who is uh very full of great yay and we should all aspire to that type of awaiting the coming of mhia as my grandfather did you know my grandfather even in the death camps he believed that msia was was going to come that day and his whole life he never diverted his attention from awaiting the coming of mashiah you know he waited for mashiach like if you would order something on Amazon and it says it's going to come Monday or Tuesday and the doorbell rings not as he didn't await it like as a concept or an idea he waited it as a reality so we hope to see that reality uh very soon amen and I think it's written right that the shivas bamas which Begins the three-week period will be beginning of Y Tish will be the end of yff and the rest of the nine days will be Hal mode right so we're looking for a very big holiday coming up we're looking forward we're looking forward we're we're all ready for it anyway Rabbi Daniel J glassy thank you for joining us as usual the book is called the darkness and the dawn that deals with the four fast days the Holocaust Memorial Tish abov it's a fascinating read I recommend it what's your next book going to be about uh the ne the next book in in Hebrew is about about child raising children and in English for art scroll it's actually yesu about the's work about awaiting the coming of mhia which always carried a suit with him when he went traveling right getting ready for M yeah glassing thank you for joining us okay thank you for having me easy fast thank you for tuning in to talk line with Zev brener America's Premier Jewish broadcast the pulse speed of the Jewish Community for continuous Jewish programs talkline network.com or our 24hour a day listen line at 641 741 0389 for past shows you can find us on iTunes Spotify Amazon YouTube Instagram and all major podcast platforms or Jewish podcast. org thanks for listening to the chine network.com follow us on Facebook Twitter and Instagram terrific very good I enjoyed our session thank you very much I just said that V today about kaor oh very good because