Pesach: What To Talk About at the Seder? - The Incredible Machlokes Brisker Rav and Chasam Sofer

this Tower class is brought to you by torahanytime.com okay good morning everyone thank you everybody for coming we thank those the generous sponsors for uh Distributing this forum and this morning's breakfast is sponsored by Robert yagarev in honor of the birth and birth of his new son Alima Israel so um before we start the subject I want to tell you a story amazing it happened last night and I'm not sure if I should say it I shouldn't say it maybe I'm going to get in trouble but it never stopped me before so here we go guy knocks on my door came to my house and uh someone who davins here and he he wanted to tell me something he said that since he started becoming dominating in the show regularly shot this morning his life changed the amount of bracha that he's seen in his life since he started diving in the shul is Le Mala he wanted me to know that and it's push it Ruth Miller if anybody came to a Victor Miller the question he would ask is do you Daven in a shul where they talk or not so the person would say I don't talk remote says I don't care what you do are there people in the show that talk if they're people who talk then don't come to me you have this problem you have that problem if you want Brach on your life you need to go to a makoim where there is no talking about it happening foreign so why am I telling you the story you know I am telling you the story it's those who are to be a part of this it's a it's a Jew Chef to understand it's a it's a tremendous bracha you're going to see Barack Obama and um this has just happened to me last night somebody came to my house unsolicited unprecipitated he wanted me to know this and um today I want to talk about um a very important Indian about the midst of supreme so your kids are going to come home with booklets and gamachios and the Very Tyra and all the different tire that your children say at the table is very beautiful it has nothing to do with the Mitzvah of higarette the Mitzvah of course is for the father to say over to the child and the Mitzvah is not to say over vertlach the Mitzvahs to say over the story The Narrative so let's begin with the shita of the safer if you look on your sheet the Manukau kadusha is the talmud of and he writes the number 23 his name was he says he who created us and our yet Sahara um at the time that the Mad salamara are placed before you us that basically the only time you could ingrain a Muna in your child is when the matzah and the Maru is on the table notes not sukis not Tish above basically you have one shot a year to teach your child that there's a God and that he runs the world there's it's one idea the whole night this number of words this number of segments gamatrias ramazims you only fulfill the Mitzvah if you explain the depth of the miracle hashem's ability so if you say topulen steroys debrator that has nothing to do with the midst of supreme you have to talk about the mighty hand of Hashem tell the story The Narrative by the way for likewise writes that in the Russians some civil rights to number 24 Indian hasipur the midst of super excuse me time is not to speak um in in-depth he says kabbalistically pimple is beer hack clippers but the Mitzvah is Hashem the Mitzvah is just say the Miracles it's brought in the various Farms that record them so far that the Samsung was in his uh in his say there until after katsues he was not marketed on eating the Africa men before qataris and what did the Sam Cipher do the night of the say there is some service busy with the little children the terror game called he translated every word did not say any different Terror than I'd ever say them so your kid's gonna come with this big booklet you know in plastic he's been working on it she's been working on it that's very nice there's nothing to do with the midst of super Triumph how you're going to explain this to them I leave that to you to figure that out what the there's no one who has more different how many zero what did he do he translated the words for who for little kids over five or six years old so that's what some server did this is the bread of Affliction that our forefathers do you understand what Dever is do you understand what's Raya netuya is do you understand what your hazaka is do you know who love one was who did Love and try to destroy Jacob what does it mean I know the Gamache there's a card that's very nice there's nothing to say there you have seven long days of pesach how how many to return do you say the recipe everyone's talking about matzo prices save all your debater for the rest of the say there to say there is meant just to elaborate on the Miracles of Hashem also he brings zucchini zatza my grandfather meaning explained very well every statement fine that's it that's the shita that is the of rabistrel is that your only Makai in the Mitzvah by speaking about Denise however let's let's analyze a few segments of the Haggadah foreign so according to the gears of AD you tell them all of her up until the end even so as the briskarov what do you mean you're supposed to tell them the night of the cedar neither you have to talk about the Nissan why are you giving that doesn't seem to be relevant to the midst of cypruses then we go uh to another place in the Haggadah right did anybody know there's like this Jewish phenomenon people like to say ah I feel so old I feel so old the guy's 15 years old he feels so why why does he feel so old you know let him get up and get off the chair and move a little bit why does he feel so no he's following in the dark who is 18 years old he said and we all know this is speaking about the subject of do you need to remember yet every day of the year yeah there's a mix of the riser to remember you'd see some time every day of the year when do we remember it at the end of the third Parish of Shema when you say Ani Hashem by the way it's not only at that juncture it's also in we are there's a mitza to remember and to talk about Marcus and there's also a Mitzvah to talk about uh Korea's yamsov and all of that is part of the daily Mitzvah of in fact has a famous question who knows brisco's question famous question the Kasha is if there's a Mitzvah every single day of the year to remember it's this then what exactly is so special the night of the say there and gives many answers gives three answers and there are another three new answers in the new Haggadah there are another three new answers in the haggadan so the question is as follows why would the Haggadah include a discussion about the daily Mitzvah to remember yet by the way now there's a question do you have to remember it every night of the year or does it mean we're going to remember it during the day when mashiach comes this has nothing to do with the midst of Subaru system then I rather say that why would the hagada include oh I have a question do we need to remember YouTube some time on a random Tuesday okay it's a very nice discussion but what does that have to do with the night what does that do that what's it doing in the hagada what's it doing in the hagada by the way the rambam has a different gear solah you know the rambam gives you his gersa of the Haggadah and the the rambam learns that at that historic Savior benebra My Sabra belazer produce so by the way you see that benebrock was already a city of Torah back in the times of the tanon you know it's it's a very interesting thing by the way the whole idea that the Torah a lot of the Torah in the world comes from Bene BRAC like what's it what's it doing in benebra it's not one of the four holy cities in arts Israel you have your favorite what in the world has been abroc and we know in recent Generations and it's not only then it goes back to back it goes back to the time of uh the nasty realism but obviously it has something to do with the fact that actually and the beneath but wherever Tuma is whenever you're in his gather over something evil it produces kadusha even on a higher level so it's amazing you see even in our our own time the fact that we overcame the Tuma of Haman in it has transformed this anyway the rambam's gearsa is at that historic Sedar Revelation says the ramam's gears is said to them at that cedar by the way you need to talk about your system time every night of the year why is he talking about that at the say there why is he speaking about this I have to say that another question the these five tanam were talking about him now the first thing is a very important question of the aquarium is that Elizabeth so why in the world was talking about after this man so one approach the stipler says is because who's the Roth in the neighbor Kiva so the knesses writes that the makoim of the Marda asra you follow the ruling of the mardasra that's why it says because in the neighbor Kiva that this man's trium is but as the briskarov I got I get it this man sibutions the whole night but they continued into the morning right anybody know when does my chrisma start who knows rubber soil your ear Sesame that's correct when is Michigan they're like eight different Cheetos on michoacarees but basically 30 minutes let's say after Allah so I have a question when does Supreme end for sure so why would they continue to talk about yet after this man you're not makayama Mitzvah what would you call a guy who's taking a Lula of an esri foreign you'd come out of his mind right why is he taking all over here actually there's a question are you ever about Joseph are you even allowed to what would you call someone who eats matzah anchovus or on Arab era of Tish above I mean what's he doing you know imagine a guy who's eating um in the sukkah he's eating in the sukkah on Tish above so the guy has multiple issues right so why why why are these tunnel I'm talking about this time after Allah they should have stopped a half hour earlier what were they doing what were they doing that's super scrubs Kasha and all of these questions let's review question number one why are we telling the night of the cedar number two why does the Haggadah include about the entire year according to the rambam why the night of the say there was a number four why were the speaking about about so the briskarov has a landmark you know this is look at number six you're obligated to learn the laws of his even just you and your kid they were learning the whole night by the way the tour wants to know everybody knows I remember when I was a kid I was I was having to stay there but my grandparents house on Avenue L on East 9th Street and I finished I was terrified of the Africa I'm in I was terrified laughing because you can't eat after laughing and when you're like six years old the thought of it's not thought of not being able to eat was traumatizing I still remember I was very afraid to eat that become and then I asked my grandmother can I have apple juice no and this was a very difficult night I remember I was only allowed to have water but you know who who drinks water you're kidding no kids don't drink water but anyway why are you now to eat after lafikoi men says the tour you know why you're not even after after coming because you're obligated to learn the whole night and if you eat you're gonna fall asleep Tor says that by the way you know people stay up the whole night where does it say that you should stay up all night the answer is nowhere nowhere right that's basically sums up everything right oh you have to stay up all night pesach night nobody would ever dream of staying up all night nothing even when I say Caleb what are the noise that Caleb say no yeah to stay up all night but anyway it's not exactly like that because it says until sleep grabs a hold of you so the answer is we all do that as soon as I say there's over basically you know the Sleep grabs holder but really the night of the state there you don't go to sleep you don't like you know okay let me put on my pajamas let me make sure I'm wearing my comfortable my fuzzy slippers and I go to sleep now after the stay there you basically you learn you say Sarah shiram you speak right to you sometime until sleep takes you over in any event look in the toy sofa the tricester doesn't say you have to be oise the whole night look at the lotion says the briskarov that from all of these sources we see that if somebody spends the night learning Hillcrest pesach he learns let's say a guy what does he do all night he learned how to make the karusas to put in to put in to put in kinamine to put in yayin and that's all he does the whole night he does it the whole night they say pal where did you get your car race of me I got in the mail from the telsi Shiva they sent something in the mail furthermore we see this from the fact that the hagada includes the mishna that talks about the remembering itself every night of the year why is meant for the midst of supreme now we see by discussing the Mitzvah and that's why on the night of the Seder turned to his fellow tanoam and he said that there's a Mitzvah is this time every night of the year and that's why they continued to talk about exceeds with Ryan after Alloys what do you mean the midst of separ is over yeah the midst of supers is over but since part and parts of the midst of sipor is learning and that's talmatara so they continue to engage in Tamil Torah even after Allah when the technical midst of super was over now it's very hard to believe that the brisker up holds that if you just learned to the mitzvah I mean you have to you have to do it question and answer right you have to have a management you have to be masculine the time of the mits so I don't think he means that by learning it supplants it's the plants it it replaces the basic of these three important components of time presumably what he means is that if in addition to telling the story you also learn halacha that is an additional kium every word of Allah you learn is also Akiem in other words we know does that only mean the narrative or does that even include halacha so the the briskarov would hold that it's expanded I would believe he holds that once you do the Baseline narrative we expand that everything in halacha that you discuss is also considered Akim of the Mitzvah of sibrautius so we have to discuss two things number one what is the source of this what would the source be that by discussing the Mitzvah of severeign [Music] to make it or already made what what's the logic of doing that right you would think Charlotte but you know what's the what's the logic that learning by the way when the balagada says okay we know it goes even until the last but when does it start are you Mikaya in the midst of Stephen by learning imagine that the whole night he's learning not relevant until for another 364 days you know we know it ends by the end of does it start at the very beginning of sakam That's the hakira of the briskarav La Mesa I would say yeah because Republic is telling them about random Tuesdays by the way every night of the year there's a mix of two memories that has no relevance to this night at all I mean it is relevant because you also have to remember it's just the time this night but it's not it's not really so when I was living in Queens I was close with uh from Rabbi galanter show Rabbi savitsky show do you remember Robbie Warman ah but I used to sit I used to when I dab in there during the week I used to sit next to Rabbi Warman Robbie Warman was the rashiva and Hebrew Academy of Nassau County he was you know who he was Gordon knows he was first one give a big gash of clack for Gordon for picking up two dozen bagels this morning and the cream cheese and schlepping in the boxes Gordon remembers of a woman he was the talmud of her blazer silver he was from the city of Leipzig in Germany and he wrote um many Valiums called and he always would tell me I mean when he was in his 90s rabbusner would call him up you have to continue to write you have to continue to write you have to continue to write so he I was inspired to write from this Rabbi Warman in fact the first the first article I ever wrote I went to him and he edited it for me the Mormon edited article and he helped me submit it to hamar that was probably goes back 15 years he wrote many volumes he wants to find them a car for the for the briskarov what would what would the source be that you need to learn that your makaiim the Mitzvah of by learning so if you look at number nine the Safra brings and the passage remember Shabbos so the Safra says I would think to do it in your heart no that already says Shamar what do I do with remember Shabbos with your mouth it says remember don't forget that you got Hashem angry in the mid bar I would think in your heart no it says what do I do with zachar listen carefully but there are many things in the Torah it says it says it says so I would have learned the sifra that zahar means I need to make kiddish I have to articulate Shabbos or I need to articulate the story of Nerium or I need to articulate I have to lay in the pastor of Malik look in the Riven on the Safra derive it says no that's not what it means it doesn't mean you need to make kiddish it doesn't mean you need to articulate the story The wrif it says what does it mean s in other words what does it mean remember the story of Miriam learn what does it mean um remember by the way the rush on the sifra learns zakar learned what does it mean remember the egal learn what does it mean remember Miriam learned what does it means by the way if you remember the gemara had a havamina then whenever you said means to learn comes rabbi warmin I one time had this close to tie the shoes of a woman the end of his life he couldn't bend down and tie his shoes okay laughs he writes that the same way the sephra says the culture likewise aside from the midst of higarette it says look at number 16 the rambam says foreign maybe it means you're required to Remember by learning so specifically remember that Hashem took us out of its rhyme how by learning space by learning how to say the same way how to remember Amma Lake does it doesn't say learn how to kill amalek what kind of valver should you use should use a pistol should use a rifle that's not what it means it learns Magilla so we see that the hawakis expand the Corpus of material to anything relevant to the subject matter so too if it says by foreign by learning it's a very amazing this would be a basis for the briskarav that we see from the lahsak we see from the inclusion of um we see from the fact that tanam continued to speak about the the UTI even after Allah that is part of the Kiam of the Mitzvah of what would the logic be so I remember Rabbi Warman said the logic is we are there's a famous comment of the safer says that what's the reason for the Mitzvah of timer writes that the entire reason why Hashem made the Jewish people and why Hashem created heaven and earth and why Hashem took us out of mitzrayim the purpose of yutias mitzrayim is so what better way can you demonstrate that Hashem was for a noble purpose and for a worthy purpose than by speaking about the pesach if the whole reason Hashem took us out of matrim was for kabala Satora then more than it's actually perhaps a better fulfillment of supreme better than saying the story you know okay so you can go to the store you're gonna get like nine different types of you know um what is it called wind up frogs right it's a very important part to say that they have different kinds of frogs you press it on the bottom it jumps you twist it you there there are at least many different even better than dramatizing the narrative is learning the halacha because why did Hashem take us out of its rhyme so we should go to the store and patronize Jewish people who sell different kinds of frogs before pesach it's a very nice thing it's a big Mitzvah to support Jewish business but the purpose of its mitzrayim was for Kabal Satora so what greater demonstration that you see as much time was for a noble purpose then by learning the pesach and if we may there's a famous Gematria of the hafla it's not in this new hagada by the way it's not in this what's the Camacho pesach I think it's 144. excuse me 168. one right 148 74 plus 74. 74 is hey tough 613.613. why because the whole so what demonstrates that hashem's objective has been fulfilled just by telling all the blood curdling details of Marcus yeah obviously you have to say the story but if you learn the halacha especially with the with the focus that it should be an avoida that we're learning the halacha because Mitzvahs like the Posse says the purpose of itself is that we should do the mitzvahs so we could understand that it definitely enhances the midst of supreme by learning the so the bottom line is if you look at number 28 in the hagoda paradise he brings down that there are many uh sources for this teaching of the Grizz that one is Makai in the midst of super excuse me by learning but certainly what he meant was it's only of the Mitzvah if you just learned and you don't tell the story at all obviously this is a lacking and fulfillment of Isis but if the Icarus discussion of the narrative and by the sudo or sprinkled in you also talk about halacha especially after it's worthwhile to be aware of the night of the cedar you don't put on your you know your flannel pajamas your fuzzy slippers take your teddy bear your schleff couple with the big Pom-Pom it's not the night uh to get ready for my good night's sleep you let the Sleep take over you don't worry you're not gonna this will take about 30 seconds extra you know just at the end of the stay there you prepare yourself you put a pack of this forum you're gonna say the whole the fact that you only get through one pasta you're still makayaim the halacha of now by the way the gersa of the gra in the tricester the girl takes out the whole thing the girl takes out the words according to the gra it seems like the whole basis of the Grizz at least from the toy SEPTA Falls away but our gearsa is they're they're just translating the words you know they're focused totally on the narrative but it does seem like there's some basis that in addition to that if you speak about the discussion is also fulfillment of the Mitzvah of super existence time okay thank you everybody for coming if you didn't get a safer please uh help yourselves you've just experienced another Torah class brought to you by torahanytime.com