Parshas Chukas: The Case of the Poisoned Sandwich and the $25,000,000 Funeral - Part 1

this Torah class is brought to you by Torah anytime.com okay good morning uh this morning's topic will take us at least two if not more sessions it's a major topic the name of the topic is the case of the poison sandwich and the $25 million funeral that's the case the case of the poison sandwich and the $25 million funeral this this uh was a case that uh became very controversial um inel and it began with a story that happened over here in our country in a uh medical class um and we have uh theak of ha zilberstein which created a great commotion and a great controversy it was challenged by many Rim kki weigh in and uh we from here we learn many many principles in uh TS in bakama in Damages and it's a really a very fascinating unusual situation okay so the case was first reported in a Torah Journal called T Yakov in K in the yearin S it's volume 44 um and basically the is the Shila began like this let's say uh you have a vault you have a place where you store money are you allowed to put candy outside the Vault laced with poison in case an intruder comes and wants to steal he'll pop a candy and drop dead so uh that's the beginning of the sh and but basically what happened was like this the three letters we have in front of us from the following number one mayor Fran number two Zin and number three we're going to talk about something that never happened it never happened among Jews but it did happen among the question is if such a thing were to happen how would a judge judge the following case okay basically uh here's the story is what no a scientist a scientist in a laboratory somewhere in this country of ours he was not successful now we have to understand what that means he wasn't successful there are two spheres in life there's academic and then there's social academically he was very successful socially the guy was an abysmal failure in his studies he was a great chemist but socially he basically was a fool and he became the class clown okay basically he was the target of everybody's practical joke right so anytime somebody wanted to make fun of somebody he was the scapegoat so he was a brilliant kid but he he didn't have it together socially it reached the point one of some Wise Guy made it his regular practice to basically hide this guy's sandwich the guy had a he used to bring every day a tuna fish sandwich a peanut butter and jelly sandwich Salam sandwich for lunch one guy figured this guy is uh basically and he took his sandwich every day and he ate it at his friend's expense nobody came to the aid of this of this Afflicted to stand up against the GH basically he was left without any he another every day he was starving he came 12 o' everyone pulled out the sandwich and every last day the guy opened up his napsack and the guy maybe just left the silver foil behind but the salami sandwich was gone every single day I don't know why he didn't bring two put one in the front pocket one in his pocket I don't know but gu that that was part of the guy's uh yeah he he wasn't Savvy enough to figure that out so what did he do basically what happened was one day in the middle of class A guy in the back he croaks he kills over they call the guy in the back is about to die oh and this from the man get oh now I know who stole my sandwich one day in middle of the lecture after lunch different fancy modern Hebrew words he began to vomit it was a great rockus basically the fool gets up I have it under control now as dumb as he was socially that's how smart he was with chemistry he whips out of his napsack the antidote to the poison he gives it to hatah hat administers the antidote and the GH of recovers at that moment he figured out who the ghav was it's good he was smart enough to figure it out I'm the one who concocted the poison I hit it in my sandwich that's why this person is reacting so harshly he immediately pulls out another chemical that had the ability to neutralize the poison the GH of's life H now this guy Rose from being the class clown to being you know the hero of the class all of a sudden he became Mr Macho and he gained new confidence and now he's he's uh the most popular guy in the class he's the new star of the class okay there happened to be a nice sitting in the back of the class who who uh was taking in the The Happenings one of the people happened to be therei was a young Jewish kid he today serves one of the divisions of the he he heads one of the the divisions of a hospital he presented the sh toin the author of the author of The the author ofi the author of and a host of other very interesting and the real author of the new art Scroll series what if right I don't know if you've seen that but that's also translation fromit zilberstein and R Zin gives a regular series to doctors and heos the let's say we're talking about Jews could a could one Jew cause the death of another Jew who is attempting to steal his sandwich and what did respond not only is it permitted it's a what's [Music] theah Gorge the Wicked Man and let him die now what is that he it's in quotation marks where does it say that you know when when when one sees that he thinks oh it must be a PK somewhere must be in Mich or something or in k no it's not in the tanak well this Pak created great controversy because here we have one of theu not only recommend not only giving permission for poisoning somebody actually he has advised that this is a great Mitzvah he didn't say it's a great Mitzvah but you know we take our Mitzvah where we could get them so here we have a new Mitzvah the Mitzvah is poisoning and he responded it's aah okay so obviously this created somewhat of a controversy um we know how what we know that usually we value human life and here we have giving us aah of well we start off with a letter this letter was written by RI mayor Franco RI mayor Franco writes to R Zin that he says I was at a bar mitzvah at a grandson inaria and a b from Yesa comes over to me and he attended Yesa or Yehuda and he told me that in the Yesa they say over that your lad said a Bo trap for aov in other words the the broader question here is and this is a question of American legal law let's say a person has reason to assume that uh somebody not may break into their home you're not are you allowed to booby trap your home to inflict harm on a possible Intruder I got God dogs that's the same thing all you have to do is say that you have God now don't be so quick to say you're not how to do that because it's a very nuanced uh situation there was a case a burglar fell and broke his back and he Sue and he won can you imtion that he was a well um okay I I I have cases but I'm not necessarily authorized to disclose but um every case is different every case is different so the the question over here is that um so this Rabbi May Franco um asked the B said you allow to set a trap for the GH it seemed to me very far in and I asked the to go back to you and clarify your opinion and then he writes over here in fact did go back to you he came back to me and he said the uh you you authorized you certified this you add it not only is it permitted and not only that but you added that this story this Pak was in the wake of the story of the student with his sandwich and um who decided to put the poison in the sandwich and you pasin that the student did well and he fulfilled the mitzah so therefore says Fran after I heard the this that not only did you issue this pack but you confirmed it and you authenticated it so I have basically three questions for you let's take a look the first question is what is based on it's based on this concept of gorge the wicked and let him die where does it say such a thing where does it come from it's a gar in Bak let's take a look it's really a in in the fifth and it's quoted in look at number three T we learned in a mishna right everybody has an obligation to um take off various tithings of their field um as part of his uh Duty so for example you have to give my well first you give truma to the you give to the Ley you have to give um in year one and year two year three you get um you have to take or La is prohibited and the fourth year is something called what okay so a person could technically have in their field and various fruit and the question is do they need to mark it off um to protect people from eating it so the says The Grapes of the fourth year out there's no to eat you're allow to eat you just have to bring it up to or redeem it with money so the says The Grapes of the fourth year they would mark it off with clouds of Earth why why Earth the Simon was just like Earth just like Earth you're allowed to get benefit from from it when you redeem it you're allow to get benefit from it and the ground it was still attached to the ground it was still on thee it was on the tree it was the fourth year so it had to be taken up to sh to be eaten the fruit of the first three years they would mark it off with shards of clay s Just Like A Shard of clay there's no benefit you could get from it there's no benefit that you could get from Mara how would they mark off Graves they would mark off with lime the Sim white like bones they would dissolve it would pour it so it would be even wider says when do you have to mark off that's that's in the seventh year the he in it was he anyone could come and take it the first six years where this is not anybody's business whether it's cuz it's mine so what are you doing checking out my field you can't eat it anyway there's a sign even the sign says Lile but there's no sign yeah but there's something called The Ten Commandments and in the Ten Commandments Hashem said don't steal that's warning enough don't touch my fruit and therefore I don't have to mark off I don't have to mark off you want to come and eat the Wicked Man let him die I don't have to warn you don't eat it it's our law God already warned you don't be a robber that's the G that's the quote in means that what that I don't have to protect you from [Music] from so good saying it's not such a Clear Proof because here in this case you're allowing somebody to die who says I could take your life or do we make the case is worse in other words it's worse to sin than to uh eat poison what's uh in other words what it's worse for a person to to be than to lose his life so if I'm even to have you do maybe can make a I could even kill you that seems to be the the first basis of's so comes comes back uh May Frankl and he says uh this is not such a Clear Proof why take a look number one he has three questions question number one the concept of gorge the Wicked Man let him die appears in sh to which he uh says Frank Fran he says it's not a proof why because the says he says like all you see from the G is that if you're doing an a I don't have to save you from the of eating F but to physically inflict harm on you or to kill you maybe it's so you'll say no it's worse to cause someone to sin than to kill them so if I could cause you to sin by not marking off the by not marking off the P certainly I could kill you but says Fran no this concept of is in the eyes of it's worse to cause somebody to sin than to kill them but down here in this world in our in our reality it's worse to kill somebody than to cause them to sin and therefore say Franco we have no means you could kill a Russ all it says is you could allow the Russia to stumble in sin that's arance number two why are you killing the guy you're killing him what did he do cuz he stole your sandwich since when is somebody who steals a sandwich cuz it's annoying to you cuz you're hungry so then charge him K charge him money but that's extreme there is no punishment of death there's no death sentence toov him doesn't mean you could give him doesn't mean you should show him coved but to to kill him to poison him with rat poison there's not nowhere in the Torah that it saysat poison doesn't say that so so you'll say ah but I'm not killing him I'm just innocently placing cyanide in the salami sandwich I'm not killing anybody this is called the salami itself is cyanide right but the so you'll see it's only grma it's only grma but say may Frankle everybody knows the rambam is well known to speak out very strongly against somebody who's go the death of somebody else the ramam says that if you hire a hitman the ramam says or you send your slaves to kill somebody or you tie up your friend and a lie and kills them so don't get away with like oh I'm just putting cyanide in my in my sandwich no we know the ram feels this is very uh very severe and therefore May Fran writes to please clarify to me do you indeed maintain that not only are you allowed to poison the sandwich it's a Mitzvah to poison the sandwich well writes back Rin very quickly and he writes this during the uh the season of the Y and he he writes in very glowing ter terms to Franco the of he writes he writes very poetically your letter is adorned with sapphire I got it and uh regarding the student who poisoned the sandwich and he writes about May Franco that he's um Mish and he says apparently you like to and he says first of all like this you want to know where does a where do we see that aov gets M he say it's a grma i the r holds that grma is says what is the rambam's grma got to do with this grma saysin please forgive me the of the ra that you're referring to if you hire a hit man you send your your attendant to kill or you tie up your friend murderer of course you're a murderer if you tie someone up and a lion comes or if you hire a hit man that's because you're doing it through an agent but why can't I poison my sandwich how am I a murderer I'm not to put poison in my sandwich where where does it say in the T I can't put poison in my sandwich I'm putting for my sandwich oh because you are taking my sandwich I wasn't you were G in other words you committed suicide but maybe we'll go to your L you know why cuz you did it be grma yeah it's Grandma but I didn't do the grma you did the grma I put poison in my sandwich what's that got to do with your death who who are you doing eating my sandwich it's my sandwich it's let's say I I um I have idial sequencing I have a m that I put poison in my sandwich is na Vera doesn't say anywhere until you can't poison your sand H now you're coming into my house who invited you I I didn't realize I sent out invitations I maybe you know you must have got it in error who what are you doing e my sandwich what what does this guy do with the round he says he says um you're the murderer you shouldn't have eaten it we're going to see we're going to see um says did you forget the RAB said take a look at number five another gar babak thear says like this if you bring fruits into your friend's Courtyard and his animal is damaged by your fruits you hear let's say you go um Ruan goes into Barrel's farm and Ruan puts plums in Barrel's farm and Barrel's cows get hurt on ruan's plums says that's if barrels cows slipped on them but if Barrel's cows ate the plums and you know what plums could do PL too many plums too many Floy men are not a good idea yeah poter the C the ru is poter why who told Elsie to have such a big suda of plums it's Elsie's fault it's not ruan's fault who told the Cy eat it tripping okay you know you can't you can't really expect cows not to get a little clumsy and and trip on a plum but to eat who told the cow not to eat who told the cow to eat natural tendency one Plum two plums but to get a stomach ache from plums who told him to eat 50 plums said no I maintain R must have been dozing off on he gave this year RAV must have been dozing off to say that that Ruan is putter for putting Ruan is poter for putting plums and damaging Elsie cuz Elsie shouldn't have eaten it rfh could not have said such a thing while he was up he must have been sleeping when he said that well did if you put poison in front of the animal of your friend you're exempt downstairs and you're obligated upstairs if you go and you put rat poison in front of your friend's cow bezden down here will not do anything upstairs they'll get you so let's make a you're only putter if you put poison because a cow should not eat poison when the cow smells the poison the cow it's poison what's it doing eating poison that's why but fruits like said they're gonna eat it now you're so the gar is now saying how could R say that if you put a lot of fruits in front of a cow you're Potter no only when you put poison in front of a cow you're poter but when you put when you put food in front of a cow you're going to be should have eaten it we don't say should have eaten it cannot be correct that he shouldn't have eaten it says no really he shouldn't have eaten it who had not only if you put poison are you poter but even if you put a lot of fruits you should also you're also poter cuz he shouldn't have eaten it so why didn't he say a bigger that even if you put fruits your Potter no poison is a the of poison is that even though you should have eaten it you're even poison also the whole thing is important because he if he would have had the poison in his field and the cow would have walked into his field it would be similar to our question oh okay good good point but first let's say what he's trying to bring out from here what do you see from this case that if you go and you poison your friend's animal you're not liable downstairs right that's if you go into your friend's um you go into your friend's yard I go into your yard and you have a dog and I poison your dog and you spent $1,000 on the dog I don't got to pay you that's Al with no arguments that's I go into your I go into your property and I poison your animal I do not pay for your animal you know why your animal should not have eaten it excuse me you heard me your animal should not have eaten it that's the I'm not saying I'm not going to do it rela I'm not going to do it I'm not coming into your property I'm not going to I'm not poisoning your an but if I were to go into your proper and poison your animal I'm off the hook your dog shouldn't have eaten it know better is what you saying doesn't make any sense now understand the person has a the answer is because it's a grma grandma and his causing is for if I go over to your dog and I you know bash it on the head then you're this is a I put it who has no look if I lace a food that it's going to eat maybe that's more than a cause here a CH of so it does I'm a grma so says if so we see from this gar that I could poison your if I poison your animal putter why you shouldn't have eaten it so to if I poison a sandwich and you eat it you shouldn't have eaten it and I'm putter even if you know there's no poison in the S what you think there's no poison in the s swi but you stole it you shouldn't have eaten it it's not your salami sandwich it's my salami sandwich it's my he says you should have eaten one second he says um like we see in now you'll say well wait a second but that's a big question so how could you tell how could say now only you allow to poison the sandwich it's a MIT to poison the sandwich but in bama the gar says yes if you poison the animal sandwich you're poter but so we're going to see he's going to address that next R the next R what if the poisoner pays for the animal no and he does chuva he's good he's off the hook well that but you can't if you kill somebody who are you going to pay exactly okay another a here's another a here's another case look at number six look at number six a story about somebody woke up early basically somebody came to his house fed him gave him to drink and he gave him lodging SC to sleep there but rabish shua was a smart man he knew that this guy in the course of the night could steal all of Rua's uh possessions so what he did was he removed the ladder from on top of the room on top of the loft where the guy was staying what the guy do sure enough got up midnight he took his lamp gave him a kosher lamp if he held of it and he gave he gave he had some nice uh in the room and the guy took his towel and he gave him some chocolates and he the guy took the uh the bed spread he wrapped up everything in the room and he was about to jump down the chimney and remembering there was a ladder there without checking he fell off the roof and he broke his back he cracked open his spine reua wakes up in the morning he washes n he says and he sees a guy half dead in the living room you empty guy this is what people like you do said I didn't know you took the ladder right I didn't realize well what do we blame blaming me you think we're dumb we knew what you were up to we took away the ladder when you look at somebody in their in your eyes they should be a robber and give them respect right basically you show respect but you got to be suspicious you're not a robber but I got to watch out for my possession I'm not stupid either there in other words says what do you see from here Rua was that this guy should get killed basically cuz inul thear says that if you break your back you're a Traer you're as good as dead now Rua moved the ladder cuz he knew the guy might try to come down that means he was he was uh he was aware of the fact the guy might break his back open and yet he did it why Rua say I didn't kill you you killed yourself who told you to be become a g of in the middle of the night that's the guy wanted to drink from the food but he had his own fridge upstairs he he was packed he had a fridge with a six-pack inside he was he was ready and prepared for the night there's no reason for him to come down midd the night the only eventuality was he's coming down to steal after somebody's perception of what somebody might be doing a f him to do something that would kill him cause him to break his back his perception of the type of person that he oh right so if he's a good guy he'll Taco stay in bed tucked in for the whole night and in the morning when the light when the lights are on he'll see there's no there's no ladder there maybe not we don't know so say what we see from here is that once you want to come into my property come at your own risk take ch right once you want basically enter at your own risk I have the right to protect myself regardless of what the repercussions are ah now even though the G in in which uses a of only allows you not all that Kamar is saying is I don't have to stop you from sinning where does it say that I could actively poison you the answer is why does the gamar use a of the of implies I could not just not warn you from an impending disaster I could actively kill you if you don't if you're not careful so say but the simple translation of the words are that I could inflict harm says from the in from which says that I could poison your animal from theu took away the latter from all these three sources in Shas what do we see that basically if you're going to violate the precept of L Sigel I can do whatever I like and whatever happens I'm not doing to you you're doing to yourself well this letter made its way all the way to R kki and R kki in the edition of pame gives what is doesn't seem to be like a ringing endorsement to but it offers a degree of support he says like this look at number seven I am not worthy of G we know Z is's brother-in-law they both married the daughter of and kki I don't know in a way it sounds like just to keep the peace in the family I don't know exactly what the meaning of this is it would seem that there is place for my brother-in-law's very insult yeah he says to say that so I wouldn't be surprised if he knew about this before okay very possibly as we're going to see Ki actually takes this even further than where ultimately limits and qualifies and takes it to the nth degree but um this was all in the 44th edition of in the 45th Edition apparently received dozens and dozens of letters very angry letters look at number eight he says I received tens of letters many oral complaints and many great are very upset about it even some write let the matter be silenced and not be said I know that the truth is is there's no point in continuing the argument the RA in his to the Raman says like this ran says many people may erroneously think that when I offer a Rah to my idea they say like this well uh I'll I'll schug up the Ria or I'll find the weakness of the Rya and then I could throw away theak the ran writes as follows learning gamar is not mathematics mathematics is a black and white science 1 + 1 = 2 5 * 5 = 25 it's not that our most reasonable guess is 5 * 5 is 25 it's measurable it's it's a my borrower it's it's absolute it's black and white when you're dealing with and you bring a r no Rya is Ironclad you could always say maybe it's a little different than the case at hand You could argue this way you could argue that way and therefore says Zin because you're going to challenge AIA that I bring and say it's not exactly parallel and therefore you're going to throw away my pack it doesn't work that way is is reasonable guesstimation in other words the most reasonable and logical conclusion it's not black and white it's not measurable and therefore just because you think you you're going to challenge my Rya that doesn't mean I'm going to back off of my P I still feel that this is correct and we're going to see really what the basis of his argument is so he quotes over here as an introduction he quotes the words of the says in a letter in letter 28 says it's not my D to argue with people he says because if I have a position and you have a position my position is based on so many so many assumptions and so many many preconceived notions that in order for me to lay out everything that my my argument is based on it would be impossible and you disagree with me because you learned so many different suas differently so it's often fruitless to to involve oneself in baseless argument or he brings another R he brings another letter from the says I I got your letter I know I'm right but I'm not it's not it's pointless to argue with you because whatever you said is not really addressing the core of my position but says Let me give it a shot okay so take a look we're on page two we're number eight um Al and this is really the Crux of's argument even aside from the of and aside from the other that if you put poison in front of your friend's animal your Potter and aside from the the Bry was approached by says Rabbi what proof do you have that you could poison a sandwich that somebody wants to steal so looks him in the eye and he says what proof do you have that you're allowed to turn on the faucet in your house you have a proof where does it say in sh that you're allowed to turn on your foret so the guy looks at like at our space what do you mean what proof do I have I can turn my faucet why do I need a proof it's my faucet I could turn I could do whatever I want with my faucet I could turn it on I could turn it off says you got it exactly why do I need a proof that I could poison my sandwich H do I need a proof I could put pickles do I need a proof I could relish if I want I could put Sauer crra I could put fls I could put milk and I could my poison what the it's legislated in the Tor what kind of sandwich I want to make I want to make with lettuce without l Hold the hold the Tomato put in the Tomato hold the poison don't hold the poison it's my sandwich the Torah can't is not going to tell me what to do with my food it's mine I could do whatever I want with my possessions the same way you don't need a raia to turn on your foret I don't need Aria to put poison in my sandwich I'm guarding my soul say e I'm not eating it I'm gu I am going to be very careful not to eat it it's in my sandwich my napsack sandwi I could do whatever I want you cannot put parameters over what I put in my [Applause] sandwich let's say I'm storing chlorine in my whiskey bottle let's say I don't have a I don't have a container for my chlorine and I'm storing my whiskey or I'm storing alcohol you some kind of poisonous you know rubbing alcohol and I happen to overhear that there's a guy who's after my whiskey you heard have a great whiskey collection he wants to drink some now I have to go home and pour out that whiskey bottle because I heard a GH of might want to drink it you kidding me if he were going to trespass and Barge into my house let him suffer it's impossible says that I would have to remove that whiskey bottle from my collection umnum you could say like this of course that's where I put the chlorine in the whiskey bottle and now a kind of wants to come ahead and drink it but for me to put poison in the whiskey bottle because I know that a God is going to come drink it is that going to be us right he says here it's different because I'm hiding the poison kavana but he says like this is there an is in the T to put poison and whiskey botles there's no such so what are you getting me on oh you're getting me on my since when is there an in the on there's an is let me tell you the following case of Le now you have what that's that's but in in or even I'll give you an example no no for example I'll give you a case I'll give you a case let's say you didn't hear a baby's grounding in the ocean but you didn't know about it and you're going fishing and you're trying to catch a fish and you spr out a net to catch a fish and lo and behold you caught two tuna and a crying baby now let's say you knew the baby was drowning you'd be allowed to fish him out right but you're not how to go fishing on CH but you didn't know there was a baby so in the mea that you did was the mea good the mea was good the was not good says you're you saved the life because your intention was to say we like we don't care about says what's the lumus lumus is there's no because the was catching a human being it was the only is we're not a person for sayin is there an putting poison in a sandwich it's one of the 613 it's one of 365v mar what Mar you're supposed to remove dangerous substances from your house from my house from my house I I I shouldn't isn't there an Isa to have unprotected dangerous substances having a a loaded gun you not have you not have a k or unprotected poison this is not unprotected it's in my nap it's in my napsack so he says like this we pasin we follow Thea in this situation there's no is on the is that you should eat it n so he says this is no worse than putting poison before your friend's what's who remembers what if you put poison in front of your friend's now here's a million dollar question last paragraph number eight he says there are two reasons number one because I'm doing it in your possession I'm going into your field and poisoning your animal in your house like you suggested before but if I were to put poison in my field and your cow would come into my field then you would be poter even so when you come into my napsack not only am I not I'm and it's a Mitzvah and number two you know why am because he's a cow and a cow has no D but an Adam has D and an Adam knows better than to eat someone else's sandwich and therefore number one if you put in your house and number two a person who is a what are you doing I understand why Elsie is going into the house what are you doing going to this guy's napsack eating his sandwich and therefore in such a case you are okay this s this Shila I was about to say this sandwich this Shila also appears in he brings down the whole story he brings down the of and he says well maybe it's not such a clear proof is maybe only where you're getting a person to do an but but to kill somebody he says in other words even though normally we're we we have to be ar for somebody not to do a here we don't in other words all you see is we don't have to worry about you doing an a normally we're but not if you're negligent but how do we say so he quotes then the story of um Rua in and he brings down the idea from that if somebody breaks their neck open it has the status of a tra right the same the idea that we mentioned earlier says you're in availa somebody breaks their neck open however he does say that Al or in AA deals with this gar and let's see whatman deres from here he says like this well take a look at number 10 this is he brings down the whole story from the story on the Fifth Line it's logical like you're saying from this story we see you need to guard your money and you need to watch out even from kosher people just like robbers in other words yes don't be a fool that you you see a guy he looks honest don't be vulnerable don't be naive the guy could steal all your money that's what we see from here and we see but but he says like this we don't see you could actively hurt the person say sh you have to think very carefully about that case you know why Rua is allowed to take away the ladder because a normal person before he climbs off a loft you know what he does che to see he checks to see if the ladder is still there it's reasonable to assume that if a guy is climbing down the staircase which he knew knew was a ladder he would make sure the ladder was firm I the guy didn't check the ladder oh so I didn't inflict damage on you he inflicted damage on himself he was POA but reasonably would you apply that to a case of poisoning the sandwich a guy who steals a sandwich would he be reasonably expected to do a chemical analysis on the sandwich or eats it he does it every day he eats salami sandwich every day and he feels quite good so say if he would not have been so Hasty he never would have hurt himself he would have seen the lad not there he would have asked he would have knocka um you know I need to stretch a little bit your mind bringing back the ladder but he didn't do that he was Hasty andu was he should have he should have been down was that he took it away for a certain reason and he would have gotten insulted I he broke his neck that's because that's his own fault that's his own uh irresponsibility so Zin however take a look look look back at number nine he says you could you could uh be that Rua was only so it comes out like this what was Rua's real kavana wasu's kavana wasn't trying to hurt the guy just the opposite rabu assumed the guy would check and he would realize the ladder is not there and he would stay there for the rest of the night Rua's intention was to stop the guy from stealing not to kill the guy so the only thing you see is that if you want to put something in your sandwich then when a guy takes a bite into it it would scream out don't eat don't eat this is not yours it's poisonous poison that you could do but to cause somebody to eat the poisonous sandwich and get killed saysin we do not see from here however however the says like this see if we can find it [Applause] R she maintains that you have to know who this guy was this guy was no regular student student what was he this guy was a chemistry student this guy was not just a regular chemistry student academically he's the best in the class and therefore says the same way we see from that was allowed to remove the ladder because he realized that under normal conditions the guy would check to see if the ladder was there before he comes down well this this person says was permitted to poison the sandwich you know why the an because he anyone who's stealing the sandwich he had the right to presume since he knew he was stealing a sandwich from a chemistry student he should have realized that it's very likely that it was it was laced with poison that's a stretch that is a stretch says look at number 12 in the middle paragraph and we'll come back to this this student even though he was a um socially inept nevertheless he was very strong [Applause] academically basically is being abused every day he had nothing he had he had no shouldn't the ghav suspected that this poor Class Clown who reached he was about to go insane he he hadn't eaten in two months didn't he realize he could have poisoned the sandwich so in a new volume of contemporary problems in volume six Rabbi um J David BL does not agree with this um comparison he says RAB zuin rather implausibly equates chemical analysis for the presence of a deadly poison with ascertaining that a ladder is in place before stepping off a roof a prudent person does not step off a roof without determining that it's safe to do so unless the person has specific cause to feel threatened testing food for the ad mixture of a poison substance is probably on the other hand a manifestation of paranoia so he feels that I understand what is saying that it was permitted for Rua to remove the ladder because it's reasonable for a person to check the ladder there but to expect the repeated ghav to to do a chemical analysis on the sandwich is um he feels a little bit farfetched but this is what argues and we will pick up with the case of the poison sandwich on $25 million funeral Mr sham next week yes you've just experienced another Torah class 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