Journey To Spain: Visiting Spain - The Mystery of the Cherem Part 2

this Tower class is brought to you by torahanytime.com welcome everyone to malayham Alabama Shira today's learning should be a Eloy nishmas whose yard side is tomorrow we're continuing in the subject of visiting Spain living in Spain a week from tomorrow I have the opportunity to speak on a trip to aspamia to Spain to Amsterdam to Portugal and we began discussing this topic so next Monday the next two Mondays there will not be sheer so um in 1968 we discussed last week permission was given by the Franco government for a repair of a ancient shul in Madrid and the question was therefore raised about whether settlement and visiting Spain is authorized we quoted an article in the kislave Taves edition of hamar 1969 and the author says that following the Spanish explosion rabbinic authorities of that generation placed a ban for any Jew to establish residents there and it is alleged that that ban was promulgated for 400 years but then was later accepted by uh later generations as a decree and because this prohibition has been accepted by all of Claud Israel so invested we cited the letter of in cook that he says that there is no source not to live in Spain there is no Shiva probably he says it's reasonable they were not machmer more than living in mitzrayim and they never perhaps even if there was an Issa was only answered to settle there permanently and not for the sake of business for business it was permitted um that was uh what we learned last week uh the titsoleezza also began uh search for what is the basis of this uh ban and because there's no authoritative source at first glance the resigner that sits aliazza writes it would seem that it cannot be prohibited especially because there were many godolam who recorded their personal history a Spanish good Island nothing of this sort is uh recorded however that says that after further consideration he says he's very concerned for something called coil de la pasak which is Kakao shakai says the traditional attitude of the Jewish people has always been that we're not allowed to go back and therefore we should apply the rule is a certain attitude among the Jewish people there's basis for that and it's therefore said uh one cannot easily permit uh an establishing settlement in Spain and when he asked the richel nation uziel if he knows of any Source he says there's no Makar but it's uh a tradition Ishmael from time immemorial not to violate the haskama that is accepted and he knows that although there are a few sardines that live in Spain every every time they make a petition to that we should send them a REV um no clergy wants to go to Spain so that strengthens the uh attitude says that says um that La Mesa we can't be Mater this furthermore we know that the historic name toledano as reported in the safer nerima aravi the toledano was 45 generations of him and in 1492 for Yosef in the sun ravidania left Toledo Castilla and we mentioned toledano is a compound word for Toledo no we ain't ever going back there um furthermore let's progress that sitsaries brings a chuva of the maharat where um very interestingly where the mahrid says let's see if we can find it here basically that UA and this is quoted back in again he says look where my uh cursor is we're on the seventh page of the marmakomas he says Italian Italian no Jew lives in Aragon for 70 years not only that we are confidential no Jew will ever again live in Aragon kihokelius Barak because the almighty um if we have faith that God will deem the Jewish people to land of Israel very shortly so this seems to indicate that marit lived in the aftermath of the Inquisition and he says no Jew lives in Aragon house for 70 years and we're we're sure that no Jew will ever again go back to Aragon so says it says why do you think noju lived in Aragon for 70 years and why are we so confident that they'll never return obviously it's because there is a consensus there's a agreement that we should never return to Spain there must be some kind of Hiram or takana that we're now to go back there and therefore based on that that Cecilia is very hesitant to give any official recommendation that you could return there but as we're going to see today the overwhelming majority of play skin say that it is permitted and to begin with this comment of uh the tits are that for 70 years no Jew lived in Aragon and we're confident that no Jew again will live in Aragon so the value yourself says if you look carefully you'll see that not only does that not prove that there is no not only does that not prove that there is that proves that there is no no because no Jew lived there in Aragon for for seven years and we're confident no Jew will return Why because God will redeem us what do you mean and even if God doesn't redeem us no Jew will live in Aragon because there's a harem they are now to live in Spain so why is the my bit saying that we're confident that no Jew will ever return there because the Gola will come that's not why we're confident there's a more basic reason and that reason is we're not allowed to go there isn't there so if anything the fact that the ma bit says that we're confident that will never return because of the imminent Gula that implies without the imminent Gula we can't we could go back there so if anything says that proves there is no Hiram furthermore last week we uh mentioned from Herzog um who says that you don't have to pay attention to this coil it's interesting what this says that if the Jews are buzzing about something there must be basis to this says no it's just gibberish it's just uh chatter why first of all the circumstances changed it's not the same Spain there's democracy today there's Freedom so let's let's uh begin with this point that even if there was again we mentioned that if there's a suffice it's not so simple we could say Suffolk die right so cool suffix because in achuva that being violating him is the direiser and we should say suffix but the question is if there was a harem and it was made by early authorities is it something that we have the authority to contravene and uh and uproot so this is very interesting chuva from the true he was the son-in-law of the Russia Siva of slab Stein and this chuva was uh brought to the Forefront by rup shlima Warman in his uh letter to the author of hamar and This was um this was he's the son-in-law of Ramos Epstein of and he says it follows he says regarding the question is it permitted for Jews to settle in Spain um in light of the harem um he says if you look in there's a are permitted and even if we make a Hiram not to be matarat in other words and even if they made there will never be mutter you could be mad to it and then they made not to permit it so says rep Joseph uh he says even if there was a harem let's say we could not do it we know um there was something called and rabinu Tam came along and he upheld the garshan and that you could only matter with a hundred rabbanam why did Rabino Tam have to make this stipulation to the camera why did Rabino Tam have to say not to matter so so who would be materade apparently if you needed Rabino Tam to say not to be mataram of the immigration that means unless you have 100 ah now now you know people mistakenly think the reason why we don't have two wives is because it's not true it's not binding the reason we don't have two wives is Because unless you have 100 so now it's a takana and when it comes to a takana you can be movanto takana unless your goddal the minion than those who made the takana and who's greater than Robin by the way you know last year we were talking a lot about the greatest of all the reshanyam that's very important to know you know people ask oh what difference does it make who the greatest is it makes a big difference because since robino Tama is the greatest there's no way to remove the takuna that he made to uphold of now that means when it comes to not living in Spain there's no takana not to live in Spain it was just a Hiram so now we commune so now there's no Shiloh are you allowed to go back to Spain but there's the Harem greater furthermore only those who were exiled accepted upon themselves those who Jews in other parts of world never accept upon themselves so the majority of Jews never accepted upon themselves so even if it was a takana but it wasn't a takanam on all of kalistram and therefore a takana that's not an old clown Israel you could matter the takana even if you're not godomi Menon furthermore says even if there was a Hiram maybe they only swore they're not gonna live in the domain of King Emmanuel and Queen Isabella but they never said they're not returning to the country it's they're not returning to the place governed by those rashem it's like Sonu says I make that I'm not going to enter your house so if the owner dies or he sells it you're allowed to enter the house so basically the truest Melech finds a number of openings of why it should be permitted in this situation number one of the tsibor yolad bimatir it's only you know if there's a takan upholding it and even if there is a takana upholding it this Israel and furthermore maybe it was only on the land governed by Ferdinand and Isabella but not in the whole country interestingly there was a notable personality who mattered this add right none other than the monkacha rabba Salazar says regarding whether there could be Jewish establishment in Spain and he says the reality is there are many Jewish communities developing because it's not easy to make a livelihood and they found uh Commerce and other sources of income in Spain and minha Salazar says that he would say because that this coil this rumor that there's not to live in Spain it's not more than a Suffolk in other words it's not more than Suffolk user because if anything there are many conclusive proofs that there was no Hiram proof number one every single Hiram in our history is recorded they're all recorded if you look in there's a record of the bands of Rabino Gershon there's a record of the bands of there's a record of the bands of marami Rutenberg they're recorded the noise Calum discussed them furthermore you know the base yoi safe he died in the year 1575. he died at the age of 87. so if he died in and he died at the age of 87. that would have made him that means he was born in 1488. so he makes a question that he must have been 10 years old at the time of the Inquisition um that doesn't make sense the dates don't work out because the Inquisition was no um some of the dates here are off but the bottom line is the monkacharaba says that the base associative was something like 10 years old at the time of the Inquisition he may have been a little bit younger but Peter he was a little boy at the time of the Inquisition and why would he not have included information about the Spanish Inquisition and and include information that there's a halacha that you can't go back to this accursed blood-soaked country why would the basically say if who was banished from Spain have made such a uh have omitted any mention of this and if you're going to say well maybe it's because they were afraid of uh Christian rule he says very hard to say that in svas the base Joseph was afraid to record this because of the power of the Christian world so it's not more than a suffix so you'll say well it's a suffixer so we should say suffix foreign is only if there is and we're not sure if the language of the Harem includes it however if we're not sure if there is a harem to begin with we don't say suffix not only that that we only say something directly if there's a Suffolk in the lushan of the takana but if it's not mentioned in takana that's not a suffix and certainly if there is no takana at all where masopik was there a takana then we don't say suffix so furthermore says there's a question whether we ashkenazim or even because it is well known that the svard world now I am not 100 sure I agree with this but it's well known that the uh the spartic world they were exiled to Turkey to Italy and to other countries and therefore they're called svardim as opposed to the ashkenazim who settled in uh ashkenaz in in um after the Crusades in the year tatnu as they were not from Spain so therefore maybe they're not subject to this Hiram to begin with now that's somewhat uh questionable I know that the city that my grandfather was born in in um in lipna for and excuse me in lynchets um the fat the city of his family were originally settled by uh Spaniards very early on I know that even Lithuanian people of Lithuanian descent for example himself his son writes in the tartamima that even though their name is Epstein their original name was benaviste and they were running out of Spain and they stopped off in the German city of Epstein and therefore he says that anyone whose name is Epstein is a levy and is Spanish okay but probably the majority of ashkenazim were not in Spain and therefore it's a highly unlikely they were ever subject to this the bottom line is the the minha Salazar says it is permitted for um there to be established um communities in Spain today um okay I want to share with you uh something else so it seems like it's Highly Questionable whether there ever was such a harem and on the other hand there is no question that even though in all likelihood there was never a halachic ban placed by Godly Israel it was definitely something throughout history that people uh was uh was denigrated and looked down upon Rabbi black in his work contemporary problems he brings that Mr tovia prashell wrote an article Israeli newspaper and in a book hador then the archives of the strata community of Hamburg so by the way you see this The Archives of the svard community of Hamburg Hamburg hamburgers in Germany so you see already in the 17th century there's a spartic community in Germany that's why I said I don't think it's uh so clear that ashkenazim are all of uh are not of Spanish descent many ashkenazim are of uh of spartic descent I mentioned I know the city my grandfather comes from it's a polar City um Rabbi Barrow wine once said that he has a tradition that his family comes from from Spain but anyway they have a document the community adopted a regulation that whoever visits Spain or Portugal here not whoever lives there anyone who visits Spain or Portugal may not be called to the Torah or honored with any other mitzvah for two years if you if you take a trip to Spain you ain't getting an Aliyah for two years Professor Cecil Roth uh he cites religious sanctions imposed upon visitors to Spain and Portugal and they were in the regulations of the uh kevra of uh in 1727 in Leghorn 1785 in the ascamas in London there were bands placed on visiting Spain so on the one hand we don't have any traditional source that there was a harem not to go to Spain but we do have clear evidence that it was discounted discount countenanced and it was looked down upon and you you would have a hard time being honored publicly if you if you made the visit and very likely here's the explanation um and I think this is really uh fascinating um does anybody know we know the Inquisition went into effect in 1492. does anybody know what year the Inquisition was disbanded in Spain it lasted for almost 400 years 350 years it was disbanded in 1834. okay which means until 1834 the law was that if a Jew would go back to Spain they would either be according to the law it doesn't mean it was observed they would either have be rightfully killed or forcibly converted okay for almost 350 years so it's suggested um by a in an article in talpio is this was written by Professor Abraham shalom yahuda that in fact there was never a theorem there's no official theorem however if you study the text of the Spanish explosion issued by Fernand Isabella we'll read it it states that any Jew found in Spain after the stipulated date of explosion would be obliged to convert to Christianity or suffer death by hanging so any Jew who wanted to visit the country would either have to give up his life forcibly convert or pretend to be a Christian now is it permitted for a Jew to pretend to be a Christian no it's all sir so there was never a hey Ram you're not allowed to go to Spain it was just the law was that a Jew cannot return to Spain if he did he would either have to be forcibly converted or suffer death by hanging so the only way to make the visit is to pretend to be a Christian says you're not going to pretend to be a Christian so there is no Hiram you know to go back to Spain precluded a Jew from returning to Spain because the only way to do so was to pretend to be a Christian but in when the Inquisition was disbanded and now a Jew could return without pretending to be a Christian so then of course it's permitted to return to Spain so it comes out the Spanish Inquisition is a halachic document it's a document that prohibits Jews from going to Spain but when it was disband in 1834 so now it becomes permitted again so that explains why we have no record of not to return to Spain we don't need a Hera it's a simple halacha Isabel and Ferdinand issued a decree that a Jew cannot return unless they convert or they're hung or they're hanged so the only way to go back is to pretend to be a Christian so that you're now to do and that precludes us from going back let's read that this is number 18. it brought to the Forefront an Innovative question that um occupied the rabbis the Frat in Poland and in Hungary when these um what happened was in 1934 the Jewish Community was honored in memory of the rambam's 800th birthday and and then he brings that he was invited to Spain in 1913 to hear lectures about the Spanish godoilum about their poetry and their achievements um so the question was raised about whether it was permitted to go back some some rabbis rebuked me he said that I accepted the position um he said even though they conceded that as a big kid Hashem to uh to to support the new Spanish government that they're trying to repent repent nevertheless how could you go back to Spain when there was a um he brings that regarding the big movatel the isser the Israel was because the government themselves invited Jews back to Spain and to settle the land and they allowed me to open up the Bata Canisius and Madrid and Barcelona in 1917 but what about um says if you look in the writings of all the godlam who live then whether the abarbanel the Bala akeda Ramos was lived in Spain I asked the rabbis in Morocco who have a tradition about the Spanish Inquisition and they couldn't tell me anything clear I asked the rabbi of tattoo on raviona who was a 1914 over 90 years old and he was a Bucky in the shelter he says remembers when he was a kid that the rabbis were not pleased with people who went to Spain for business however he says um when they needed when they needed butchers in Spain he didn't hear any protests if people wanted to go in Spain so therefore he says like this he looked carefully at the language of the Spanish Inquisition that Fernandez wrote and he says and he saw there was written who's called the Israel should be banished from all of these places whoever Rebels against us not to leave in the at the on the attendant uh intended date August 2nd 1492. to be hanged on a tree or to be forcibly converted so that is clear to me there is no hey Ram not to go to Spain the is Sir because the only way to go there is to pretend to be a Christian so that you would not be caught and killed or forcibly converted so their abundance for you need when you're they're gonna kill you that's much more calmer than so as long as the Inquisition was in effect it was a for any Jew to go back however when we were freed from the chains of Inquisition 1837 According to some 1834 so then it was permitted to return so the bottom line is that most poly skim and most authorities say that there was never but the actual prohibition of devolved upon anyone who wanted to go there because there's no way to go there unless somebody pretended to be a Christian I want to analyze one more halachic Point here and that is can the impose a ban on the community today after the Seal of the gemara is it within their power is it within the power of the to impose a ban on the community he says let's say we can't go back to Germany he says look the truth is from a political perspective from a moral perspective it makes a lot of sense after the terrible atrocities that they perpetrated there even without the rapunan proposing anything why would a Jew want to go back and step on that accursed land but says the komavasara he says I I feel obligated to bring to people's attention that for the rabbis to Proclaim akhiram is not correct mitsahadin it's against for two reasons number one in our generation we don't have the capacity to make a new isser on all the Jews in the world the Russians over here the rabbis don't have the capacity to make xera Rivage um the kilos of surface and the reverse said don't pay attention only the Nazi of the sanhedric the Sanhedrin most all of them are more or most of them could make xeron all of claw Israel or for whatever reason um but individual to gather together they have no capacity to do that Lord how you guys I'll call you strong maybe for their city for their community but nobody else has to abide by their their decreases don't have the power to do that number two we find and number two not only do they not have the power to do that they're not allowed to do that because the rule is you need the majority of the people to be able to abide by you the rambam says then who wants to make xero make a takana they have to think very carefully could most of the sibra abide by it or not I what about the fact that the Magus is there's no evidence of that there's no basis for that there's no use for that the fact that the my bit says that there are no Jews in Aragon for 70 years if anything that implies that they are allowed to go back um and all that shows is the binay muguration on their Medina but they can't because and the truth is today you have communities in Spain um so whether they were allowed to go there or not that shows that uh there is no halachic Authority for the in our generation to make a universal ban that is no longer a that's not no longer within their power and number two they should not do that they should not do that okay the mascara let's read the conclusion of yourself foreign it is permitted to visit Spain why because it's not clear that there ever was a harem so we could rely on the possum that say that if there's a suffix whether there was a and even according to the shita suffix it's a sex Sega maybe there was no khairam and even if there was maybe they only made the xeron themselves and not on all Jews and even if they made it on all Jews maybe only on those who settle there permanently not who settle their temporarily when I was invited by King Juan Carlos to visit the community in Madrid and I inaugurated a Yeshiva there I accepted his invitation and the King accorded us great honor and he gave me a very great gift and it was a big simha because it elevated the status of the Jewish Community now I want to share with you writes in the safe air on Israel something really astounding something really amazing we'll provide you writes that the king asked him a wondrous question the king asked him Rabbi you know one thing I don't understand what I don't understand is you call yourself svar them means Spain it means Iberian but why would a Jew from Morocco call himself asvari why would you from Yemen who is never in Spain call himself as faradi a Jew from Iran from Iraq from Syria why do Jews around the world call themselves Spaniards they're not Spaniards what kind of appellation is this what kind of name is this this is what the king of Spain King Juan Carlos Asia considered Juan Carlos A very wise and sagacious individual he in fact felt that two brothers should be made on him Incorporated both of these into one and he said um and River value was astounded by the Brilliance of this question and he gave an even more incredible answer says that we Jews are only a nation not based on a common land but rather based on the Torah like rabbit says and therefore a person's identity is based upon which he is connected to the greatest Sage who ever lived in Spain was the rambam maimonides was born in 11 35. and therefore the rambam who was a noilad Cordova who was a who was born in Spain all those Jews who follow him and accept his authority whether it's the Jews of Spain or even the Jews of Morocco or Syria or Yemen even though they were they were never in Spain and their ancestors were never in Spain but because they accept the halachik and Torah authority of the greatest Sage who ever lived in Spain therefore they are forever identified as svardem because they accept the authority of the greatest Sage who ever lived namely they accept the authority of the Rama so this is a some of the ideas about visiting Spain today in all likelihood there wasn't really a harem of course was highly discouraged but in all probability it was because of the law which was still in effect until 1834 or 1837. okay I wish everyone a wonderful day the next two Mondays there will not be sheer you're welcome to join us uh Wednesday morning at 10 45 and also this Wednesday night we have a a subject of outstanding proportions 8 30 Wednesday night don't miss was able to know that shop tits V was a fraud coming up this Wednesday night have a wonderful day everyone you've just experienced another Torah class brought to you by torahanytime.com