Journey To Spain: Visiting Spain - The Mystery of the Cherem Part 1

this Tower class is brought to you by torahanytime.com everyone welcome to the Kalel Agra de Perka Monday afternoon National share we have an amazing topic today shortly after shabbatamos I have the privilege to lead a trip to Western Europe to Spain and to Portugal the Shabbos we're going to be in Amsterdam and I want to speak about the topic of going to Spain in the year 2016 the Spanish government which began to have somewhat of a turnaround in their attitude toward the Jewish community they announced the development that Spain was considering issuing passports to descendants of Jews that were exiled in 1492 as a way of a sort of reparation like the what the German government did to to pay War reparations you know try to make things good again and one of the rabbis uh Rabbi avinar who is the religious Zionist rabbi and he came out with a proclamation that he forbids it's forbidden for Israelis to obtain a passport as uh and that this gesture is just a political ruse to make up for the expulsion of Jews what they're going to kick out 200 000 Jews they're gonna burn people at the stake they're going to burn people in the Inquisition led by Thomas D turkamada and any Jew Who had who was suspected of secretly observing the religion would be burnt the the smell of burning flesh wafted throughout the country and then they're gonna give some hidden passports and everything is good and then everything in Khan you know no more hakapadas all we need to do is stamp your passport and we could barbecue you and then we could give you a passport no nobody is allowed to accept such a passport and we know that uh in recent times the Spanish government offered citizenship to uh to Jews of Spanish descent Legend has it and more than Legend sociologists right that something like 80 percent of Spaniards have today in Spain have Jewish blood and part of the part of the resistance of accepting these passports and citizenship is the question is are Jews even allowed to go back to Spain today and this was first Revisited in 1968 1968 the Franco government uh granted permission for the repair of an ancient synagogue in Madrid and it brought to the Forefront the question whether Jews are allowed to permanently settle in Spain today and in uh the pro and the contrast and then the conscious hadarum many articles were written whether it was permitted for Jews to go back to Spain in the aftermath of what happened in uh not in 1492. so let us begin with a scathing literally a scathing article written in hamar hamar was founded in 1950 it was an old rabbinic American Journal founded by I believe mayor amsel I know my grandfather subscribed to it for uh many years and uh I believe I still subscribe to it actually interesting story let me put it up here is uh when I first subscribed to it about 20 years ago the editor of hamar who's the son of Mayor amso he uh he said that's very interesting that you're subscribing today because your grandfather just called to cancel subscription uh actually you know at a certain point of time my grandfather didn't have any room in his house anymore for sparram and Men mailings and you know my grandmother said okay you know before we bring new things into the house we got to figure out what we're doing with what we have so I I had just subscribed um actually I was close with one of the uh one of the frequent writers in hamara was Rabbi warmin who we're going to quote from in this series of shurim and he actually encouraged me to send in uh articles for the hamar and I have to say that the first article I wrote he personally edited it for me so this article was written about the uh rededication of the synagogue in Madrid in 1968 um and the article in hamar was written shortly after 1969 and it's basically a scathing article about the rabbi who presided over the ceremonies and how inappropriate it was and criticizing the the clothing that he wore he uh here he writes because the 24th day of kislave which was the day that this synagogue was rededicated will remain a day of Shame embarrassment in the life of the kihila basiakov in Madrid the capital of Spain and especially the family of that rabbi if you want you could see the name of the rabbi over here I'm not going to say his name I don't like to uh not my direct to criticize especially in light of the fact that other postgim did allow this so I'll let you look for yourself with the name of this Rabbi was harav harashi the chief Rabbi of this far de kahila in London um on that day this rabbi blasphemed the community of of Spain and with this Rabbi at the lead for 476 years Jews looked toward the past of Spanish history and the future with shame mockery disparagingly on this cursed blood soaked in Jewish blood this disgusting and abominable Empire who were the first to act treacherously to the Jewish people they banished us they burnt us 476 years ago it was decreed by Ferdinand and Isabel together with the chief uh Inquisitor turkamada yamak Shimon the zikram that they decreed that until the end of July every last you man-woman child needs to be banished from the land of Spain otherwise it would be forcibly baptized any Jew who would remain there would be burnt alive a hundred and fifty thousand out of six hundred thousand Jews gave up all their possessions their homes their belongings and they went into Exile and hunger and thirst with their families the rest converted on the outside many tens of thousands of them were caught practicing Judaism secretly and then they were burnt alive then this article says although there's no Source or even hint in any safer that there was a harem that was ever proclaimed not to return to Spain it is traditional in the mouth of all Jews throughout all the generations that the godoilum of that generation made a decree with a shamta and an auror that no Jew could ever return to Spain for 400 years so this already now you're beginning to see there was some kind of Legend we'll call it that the Torah sages of that generation decreed that for 400 years from 1492 I guess that would take us to 1892 Jews would not return to Spain but the Jews of all generations were more macrame on themselves and they accepted upon themselves and their descendants never ever to return to Spain so sort of like the under avinu Gershwin where he made the Harem for let's say a thousand years but it was uh continued on forever so this Hiram also spread to all lands to all generations and until this day no Jew would ever have the audacity no loyal Jew would have the audacity to return to this despicable land so the this article in the hamara says that in the past generation the the new spread that by the unlearned Jews that the harem was over and there was a small movement to return to Spain but only a few what this article calls lowly despicable individuals had the audacity to return no Kosher Jew went back there and then during the Holocaust a few hundred Jews went back to Spain to save their skin and they established the kahila but this article says this was not a very prominent or prestigious kahila it didn't really have relative hashivas in the eyes of the Jewish community and at large and no honorable Jew had the uh had the gumption to try to establish this as respectable kahila and recently the Spanish government allowed Jews to to live there legally this is again 1968 but they never allowed the building of houses of worship can you imagine because with their dictator Franco they still did not forget about their Rich history of anti-Semitism they didn't denounce the Inquisition it was still not permitted for Jews to officially legally open up and then there's been some more reform in Spain and it's become more of a Democratic Society so Franco gave permission to open up a new show um and this was one of the balticines that was still extant from the time of the Inquisition and it was uh it was sort of converted into a church and now even though this article says that Franco is allowing is making a declaration um he says like this even though even if Franco would declare that and denounce that the Inquisition was wrong and he's embarrassed by it still would we go and celebrate the opening of a shul on this land soaked in our blood and violate the kherem that was widespread for hundreds of years certainly where the Spanish government is not denouncing the Inquisition and they're not expressing any remorse so now you're going to Rejoice opening up a shul how could this so-called Rabbi not be embarrassed not be afraid to come from London dressed like a priest to to this trample publicly on Jewish blood to to uh make it seem that the Jewish people have long forgotten about their travails and the tragedies of the Inquisition and now we're happy to return now this rabbi's last name was gain and this article says he ain't no gun okay so I'm not telling you his full name I'm just you know telling you what this article in the hammar writes again I'm not telling you my own opinion I'm I'm sharing with you what's written in this conscious hamar but he this article says this Rabbi is showing that he's willing to sell the honor of the Jewish people so that he could get on the front page of the newspaper and stand there with other priests um this Rabbi is not a place he didn't ask the god of whether he should do and how would anybody ever told him that he could flagrantly violate and this sir that is widespread for many hundreds of years says this article that there's no doubt that that day that they stood in the shul of the basiakov shul and Madrid together with thousands of and unlearned Jews together to and for all intents and purposes to publicly mock what happened in the Inquisition they were Sadiq and hasidim children women were murdered were burnt at the stake in the auto defeat by the command of the government and now the government's not expressing remorse they just want to take pictures in front of a shul no can't do it again the reason why I'm bringing out this story is I would like to uh discuss the subject and in theory and and in practice as well because this article alludes to the fact that there was some kind of official hey RAM for 400 years and not to return to Spain and was voluntarily accepted by later generations permanently and the this uh article says it was been it was accepted by all of Israel and therefore no besden could annul it later on so I want to talk about whether in fact it is permitted to visit Spain today is it permitted to live in Spain today and what was the practice of various godola Israel so the first thing I want to bring to your attention is a harem is that does it have the status of a Dinda irisa or a dinder abana because this is something where it's sort of speculated there was a Hiram so it's not a definitive it's something like a safek so it's a suffix a suffix or a suffix now it would be a suffixer we would have to it would be a Savage you could be lenient but you could still say okay you could be lenient that's if you need to go to Spain there the world is big enough that you could go to New Jersey on vacation whether you have to go to a place where you're getting involved in uh possible prohibitions so the rajva writes aleph there's a question regarding drinking a certain wine whether the wine was prohibited does that have the status of a suffixa or a suffix durabanan to which the rajva responds da kizus it is prohibited so basically the rajva says that if it has a status of a suffix so just to say well you know we don't have any definitive uh record of such a Hiram so let's be lenient and not so simple this might have the status of a suffix ES which is a biographical information written by rabiakovidano this is biographical information of the Jews of Morocco so I'm sure you've heard the name tolidano do you know where the name tolidano comes from toledano is a classic Jewish spartic name toledano is a compound word it means Toledo no idano Toledo no meaning we ain't ever going back to Toledo we ain't ever going back to Toledo by the way there's um there's a maholicus why is Toledo called holy Toledo you ever hear the accession holy talita you know where does that come from so some say because there are more churches per capita in Toledo than anywhere else in the world um and others say Toledo in Toledo Iowa there are more bars per capita than anywhere else in the world so in other words holy Toledo meaning yeah that place is anything but holy that's probably the real meaning of holy toledo anyway and now you know what it means when they say holy father and all that stuff okay so umarav um no climate that's the source of the name Toledo so the question was brought to the tsitsa liyazar is it permitted to live in spart is it permitted to live in Spain so this is this question was 1951 is I got your letter and I was very happy to hear about your welfare and now I'm going to address your question regarding you wanted to know whether a Jew is allowed to travel to Spain on business or to live there could he go after the that those were exiled swore when they were exiled by the Spanish sovereignty now which you write so definitively about this Haram it is assured that this is just hearsay but it's hearsay from reports that have never stopped it's been basically a legend that has been passed on for Generation to generation because you could say on the other hand even though it's uh pretty well established in the Jewish people you know we don't go back to Spain on the other end do we find in any safer that there was such a Hiram and the sages have investigated and searched what is the source of this Harem and they have not been able to discover anything even the great Jewish historians who write every single detail of what transpired they don't write anything he talks about his travails he talks about leaving his homeland you would have ex and he tells us every detail about what happened you would have expected him to record and when we left we left in such anger and disappointment that we took a we would never return no he doesn't mention anything like that in all the famous Jewish historical Works safe don't skip one detail I asked Jewish historians they weren't able to answer me what the source is so therefore the sizzling says that at first glance to be mavara from the police game what would the din be on such a case if you don't know about akhiram was there ever a harem meaning was this just like a consensus Jews don't go back there in other words like this Jews used to live in Harlem right but now Jews don't go back to Harlem now is it is there a hey Ram to live in Harlem there's no Hiram we don't need you know there's certainly East New York do we need a harem you know your your kid who came back from the mirror Yeshiva he just got married he came out of the freezer he got engaged he got married now he's thinking should I go to Lakewood should I go to your shalayim or should I go to East New York no you can't go to East New York there's a harem you don't need a harem to tell me you shouldn't start his new family in East New York um no there's a harem not to live in Bed Stuy come on you know so was it just the thing you don't go back to Spain you know let's say a Jew escaped Auschwitz so he's in the forest and his friend says you know you shouldn't go back to Auschwitz we made akhiram not to go back there you know you know they didn't need to make a harem to say not to sneak back until the Concentration Camp so do you need to maybe it was just something Jews didn't do or maybe there was in fact some kind of halachic process that took place and was this decreed on their children did they say it should be incumbent upon us and Asher a nanupai and does that mean if they said that it should be on even those who are not there maybe only those who are alive at the time but not in other Generations so the child is um discuss this meaning about a similar scenario and another question is when they made this if they did did they say nobody could be materit or did they make it until a certain time and do we know why they made the harem did they make the Harem because there's an inquisition and if the Inquisition ever stopped they then it's bottled so maybe the reason for the kheram is no longer applicable and maybe you know the government in Spain today is not the is not the same government as Ferdinand and turkamada and if you're gonna say that there was there have been many countries that have been just as bad or even worse than Spain what about Germany who what they did to us was worse than what they did in Spain so then what then is there a harem to not to go to Germany so there are many many fake guys the specs fake guys regarding this question to the point that says it says that if somebody wanted to move to Spain they could say you know peace unto me I don't know anything about any haskam and who says they ever made a term and if they did who says they made it on their children and if they did maybe only on the children who are alive and maybe only uh for a certain number of years it may be only under certain conditions so at first glance at Cecily azer says this is a non-issue you're gonna there are too many possibilities that it's not really applicable anymore to say that this is something we have to reckon with however it says it says upon further analysis I'm actually very concerned for what we call minha Israel Taira a custom of the Jewish people has the status of law and that which the people say is like what we call Kyle Hamline and it's very widespread this legend that the gole S farad made a huskama and generation after generation they were concerned about so we should say about this scenario the following principlesh and it cannot you can matter easily to someone who asks can they move to Spain permanently especially so it sounds like to visit there is more room to be lenient but to move there especially if the petitioner is asphardi who's a descendant of the goyles farad now at this point I'm going to add that there are many many ashkenazim who are descendants of the goyles farad even um the the town in Poland that my grandfather comes from the town of lynchets which was the ear of Ambi Israel the town of lynchets the malbim a spent time in Lynch That's the cleoco was a robin Lynch It's the original settlers of the city of lynchets perhaps in the 17th century were from Spain whose last name is Epstein and he's a levy his son and writes in the macarbara that they have a tradition that originally their family name was beneveste from Spain and ultimately they came to Lithuania so it's not only those of who are sephardim who are of Spanish descent but many many many many ashkenazim whether you come from Poland or you come from Russia or Lithuania you also may have Spanish descent but the the um significance of the sriram would be more incumbent of those of Spanish descent because from the ceiling of the talmud best in um of one Medina cannot be going through on another Medina or cannot undo it so it says it's when I asked the richest if he knows of any source of the huskama of the Hiram not to return to Spain said no there is no source however he did say it is way back when to be careful not to violate the haskama and he said that even though there are some Jewish svard them that live in Spain um however whenever these Jews make a request please send us rabbanim send us clergy Malayalam no Rabbi ever wants to go there they're never their requests are never acceded to and Revolution said that um that sort of fortified the notion that there is some kind of significant stance not to return furthermore says that since the other he was reading the historical work Nair hamara of the Jews of Morocco of ravtolidano the uh who writes that the source of his family name tolidano is Toledo no again that also seems to indicate that there was some kind of unspoken consensus not to return to the land of Spain so while at first glance the tsets are thought you know who says there was ever a formal Hess game and even if there was maybe it was not on their children and even if it was maybe it was only on children who were born and even if it was on future children maybe it was only for a certain number of years and maybe only for certain conditions nevertheless upon further analysis that Cecilia says if there is a a attitude in the Jewish people not to return there that has a certain standing and especially um when he asked the chief Rabbi who said yes there is definitely some kind of uh it is frowned upon to return to Spain and to live there and from the fact that the name toledano is sourced in the commitment not to return that says there is hesitant to give a blanket Heather just to go back and live in Spain good um there's a letter we have from in the safer Icarus who writes regarding living in Spain I have not found anything explicit if there was a harem or a schwa and they probably were not more than in living in Egypt which in Egypt it's only user to live there permanently but you're allowed to do business in Egypt so the same way you're allowed to do business in Egypt you'd be allowed to go temporarily to uh live in you'd be allowed to go to Spain to do business now it's interesting Rabbi Sai there uh uh one of the lenient opinions and we'll see but I think we'll see this next week was the minha Salazar the monkacharaba was lenient to go back and to return to Spain I want to share with you the the letter of uh reviews uh the first Chief Rabbi of Israel he writes in the safe up sakum of uh he brings it was dated 6th of July 1954. he says I did not express anything formally in writing regarding I did say orally there is no reliable source that there was made by the Torah Giants meaning in the herzog's opinion this was something of a folklore this was something people said but this was not this was not there's no basis that any great condylum made uh and therefore in his basically don't pay attention to the rumors and I've heard says something very interesting even if there was a Hera episode it would be possible for us to nullify it ladati why because the variables and the circumstances are are too different today it's not the same Spain today as in the time of the Inquisition today in your land there's democracy there's equality um we know that by the way the king of Spain was actually after Franco was King Juan Carlos Who is the very wise and educated and sagacious King in fact very much valued the wisdom of King Juan Carlos and King Juan Carlos invited Yosef to his Palace went to his Palace and rabavadya as recorded in shirei Rishon lucion held that two blessings have to be made on Juan Carlos blessing number one is was not sure if you should make two blessings or one and he posted that he would include both blessings in one he said um and uh next week I'll tell you more about what transpired and that historic meeting between King Juan Carlos and Robert Yosef but Riverside says today in your community there's equality and um everyone is given the freedom to practice their religion and regarding Spain today we don't have in our hearts only covered the Hada says there's no basis that there ever was a harem and even if there is a harem it is that we are allowed to be matar um um let's see um I want to show you and we'll end with it this week um that there was some basis That official basis that Jews did not return to Spain rev um in his contemporary problems volume one he BR he brings from rabbitovio in an article which appeared in Israeli newspaper in hamodya in in 1954 he says in the archives of the spotted community of Hamburg contains a document indicating that in 1658 the community adopted a regulation which provided that whoever visits Plano Portugal may not be called to the title or honored with any mitzvah for two years so it's not that there was a harem it's just you couldn't get an Aliyah for two years which is in most shoes not really longer than how long it takes between the Alias that they that they could give out so but anyway they did forbid somebody to go and if if somebody won you couldn't get Aliyah for two years Professor sue saroth the Jewish life 5717 cites religious sanctions imposed upon visitors to Spain and Portugal these sanctions were Incorporated in the regulations of the society for douring the brides promulgating legroom 1727 you know you wanted to get a for you know Spain was not a good place to travel to in 1785 similar sanctions were including the haskamas of one of the shows in London and Ross says such sanctions were based upon earlier regulations of Amsterdam and Venice which by the way it could have been for safety reasons they forbid people going back to Spain and people thought yeah they would go back and for short while they would practice religion secretly they were really endangering their life um in 1978 rabbavati Yosef was invited from the heads of the killer in Spain to visit and to inaugurate the um the base of the first Jewish school in Madrid and rabavadya then had to look into the question whether uh in fact there are there's any basis to the report that when the Jews were exiled in 1492 they took some kind of and here I'm not to return s you know you we could there's a lot to be my Suffolk about even if there was a harem maybe they'd maybe they were only Geiser on themselves not on their children maybe their only guys are on living there permanently not on returning there maybe they're you know you're allowed a tour there and the value of Cook he says that there's no explicit source that there was more than living in matraim which was only also Keva um foreign says that the etymology of his name was Toledo no nevertheless we see that after him many many great kilos were established in Spain and Madrid Barcelona and they lived there permanently and nobody says anything was asked if he knows of any source and he responded no there's no Source but he knows that it's been not to go there next week where I'm going to show you uh a few places that are malmir and um the opinion of the milha Salazar and the conclusion of rabavady Yosef but until then we see that whether in fact there was the land of Spain was considered the you know the uh accursed treacherous land of Jewish blood I have a feeling that part of what cured the Jewish people's attitude to Spain was the Holocaust uh had a a very uh compelling way to make us forget about what happened in 40 1492 and to focus on more recent and more acute uh disaster that happened to the Jewish people so the the Holocaust may have had an effect on how we uh look back and view uh Spain historically okay we're going to hold it over here pick it up next week have a wonderful day thank you thank you you've just experienced another Torah class brought to you by torahanytime.com