Israeli Independence Part 2 - The Shocking Revelation of Rabbi Chaim Vital

this Tower class is brought to you by torahanytime.com okay welcome everyone to part two and versus Hashem this will be for now the final part of this topic the topic of what we're calling Aliyah bakraima and the topic of the three shvoice now like we did last week I want to begin with the following disclaimer that is not to argue on any gudola Israel a cabana is only to elevate and magnify the covet of all the godlam from no matter what their opinion is and I want to give another disclaimer and that is when it comes to this issue of forcibly taking back Arizon there are many issues that come into play and uh one prominent issue is the issue of the politics of it and that is um what we're staying out of that's what we're not we're not discussing I'm not here tonight to discuss the the deficiencies or merits of those who did found the state what their intention was that's not what I'm discussing tonight I am discussing tonight The Limited issue of whether creating some type of statehood in the land of Arts Israel whether that's violating the three schweis or is it not violating I am not here to comment about the respective Merit or demerit of those who did so one limited issue and it's not limited it's a very broad issue and that is is the establishment in Earth's Israel of a government and if it helps you uh deal with this objectively let's just imagine for a moment 10 of the greatest Israel came along and decided they wanted to establish a government in arist Israel and let's say that government was run would that be a violation of the three schmois or not don't get caught up in who in fact was we're the ones who established the state that will leave for others but what we want to discuss is the establishment is taking Arts assault back by force with military with an army is that a violation of the three schweiss so let me refresh your memory there's the gemara sandals and just very briefly the gemara said repzara try to slip away from his Rabbi Ravi Huda because his Rabbi Ravi who the hell that no individual may go back to arist Israel under any circumstances and repzaro disagreed revzera held an individual may go back but even Rob Zara agreed that the Jewish people took three Oaths and what what are they Cloud you throw a swore yalu bakrima the Jewish people swore they were not forcibly take back Arizon it doesn't matter that it's ours we swore to God we would never take back Arizon we would not rebel against the goyam and the goyam swore to God they would not subjugate us too much anything Martin said others voice we also swore we're not going to force mashiach to come we're not going to dive in too much we'll let Hashem so to speak decide for the right time but bottom line the gemara's conclusion was that even though maybe an individual may go back to Arts Israel not like rabihuda but in mass as a community as a seabor Jewish people may not take Earth to sell back by force Jewish people may not rebel against the Gentiles and the Gentiles may not subjugate us too much and rabbosai last week we offered four justifications for the position that Independence and statehood is possible in Earth Israel and don't get caught up in well I don't like the government that established the state that's not what I'm talking about tonight I'm not talking about that particular movement you want to read about the ideology of that movement you could read about it in the writings that's not what I'm talking about tonight I'm talking about the limited issue of imagine if it were a good oil and who established the state is establishing a state by force violation and we offered four possibilities why maybe it's not and that in fact we said is the position of most of the Israel number one we spoke Out The Avenue said we don't know exactly what these are what these old Tsar our bodies didn't swear it was an oath on our souls and how incumbent that is upon us very uh nebulous is not so clear and therefore it was suggested that maybe it's not binding and we weren't really so happy with that suggestion because bottom line is we swore and maybe it's not halachically binding but our soul swore they wouldn't do it so we weren't so satisfied with that we mentioned the reason of the morale the moral said these are not Oaths these are the kuris these are God the Creed it wouldn't happen but if it did then you gotta do it just like God decreed it will hurt for a woman to give birth but she's permitted to take anesthesia she's permitted to take an epidural God the Creed you're gonna sweat to make a living but if you win the lottery you get around it well God the queen we're not going to take ourselves back by force but if we do then great and then a third explanation that we gave rev mayor of wrote explicitly that once the San Remo conference took place where the enlightened nations of the world agreed to allow the Jewish people to form a state then it's not considered taking Arizona back by force we're doing it with the consent of the nations of the world and then finally finally we offered an explanation that since the guardian violated their end of the deal and they broke their treaty not to subjugate us too much we could break our end of the deal and what we would like to do tonight is discuss the validity of some of these arguments as well as present a number of additional reasons why the majority of godalia Israel are of the opinion that it is possible to establish a government in ours Israel now again I'm not commenting on the one that established it or on the one that exists I'm talking about in general can there be a statehood in Arizona before mashiach comes and we're going to offer many other suggestions why it would be permitted okay we begin with number one the McGillis Esther not to be confused with mcgilla sister not to be confused with wrong sister is a commentary on the rambam and the safe from its list written by rebusak De Leon IBN of 16th century Italy so reviews of De Leon is commenting on the fact that we know the rambam list of 613 Mitzvahs and conspicuously absent from the rambam 613 the rambam nowhere says there's a Mitzvah live in the Holy Land it's not on the list nowhere does maimonidi say there's a Mitzvah to live in our in the ramban writes that the Rumba made a mistake the Roman forgot to live is the very important Mitzvah a midsole which is equal to all 613 Midwest they're on band criticizes the rambam and says rambam you forgot to count the Mitzvah of living in Earth's Israel so the Miguel ancestor comes to defend the Ramadan why did the rambam not write that one of the 613 Mythos is to live in Earth Israel says reviews it is my opinion that the reason why the rambam did not list the midst of Living Earth Israel is because there is no Mitzvah to live in Earth is thrown wrong huh there's no missile yeah you got it says Miguel assessor you know why there's no Mr living as Israel there's only a midst of the Living Arts Israel in the Titans in the times of Yeshua benon in the times of David so long as we weren't kicked out but once we were kicked out there is no more Mitzvah to live in Arizona so it was a limited misfun duration I'll prove it to you not only is there no Minnesota it's prohibited to live in Earth Islam why is it prohibited Israel so because the gamarang suboi says that claw Israel took three Oaths and one of them is they're not going back there and they're from the ghost Esther says how could claudiuswell take an oath to violate him it's from the Torah must be you know how car you saw took an oath because there is no myths on the target list the Mitch was only to live there when the base I make there stood but once we got kicked out there's no mitsu to live there and that's why nowadays says the Miguel ancestor you can't go there in Mass because the midst of living Earth's Israel ended I but if you look throughout shots it talks about how important living in arts Israel is that someone who lives in arts as well it's like they have a God someone who lives in it's like they have no God that's only talking about in the olden days but once we were kicked out of Earth's Israel there's no more myths to The Living Earth Israel because I'll tell us that when the uh got up to the Passat in uh Mata isma say that says you should live in Arizona they cried doesn't that mean they cried because there's a Mitzvah to live in arts Israel says no that's not why they cried because if there was a midst of living on itself they wouldn't cry they would go there you know why they cried they cried because there's no longer a midst of the living arith Israel and they felt bad that today's was destroyed and it's not possible to fulfill that myth anymore why is it not possible to fulfill them it's anymore because Claudius throw took three Oaths one of them is we ain't going back okay so the opinion of reviews of De Leon is that nowadays be very comfortable in the country you're living in don't have any thoughts about going to the Holy Land in fact don't definitely don't convince your friends to go there you don't want to violate and incur the Wrath of the three Oaths that is the opinion of the megala sister but we said last Wednesday night that Ramirez simchov devinsk said yeah very nice but once the gave us permission whether it was the Balfour Declaration whether it was the San Remo conference once they gave us permission to go back then we're not going back with Force we're going back with consent so maybe if the goyam allow us to go back why can't we follow the opinion Ramirez simcha that it's permitted so now I want to show you number two number two is the yeah number two is the mara Malcolm the source which is the most anti-establishment of government inert Israel that you will find and that is to be honest and abishads in the other side is commentary and they have Taurus to be honest and I wish it says I'll take a look in your sheet parishes page 193 about the seventh line eighth line Israel Cried Out Israeli claudiusro protest any Jewish gathering in Earth Israel and even if you would get the consent of the United States of America and England and Russia and Iran and you get the consents of the Muslim Brotherhood and all the Isis and now and all those al-kabab organizations that they have nevertheless heaven forbid to go there why Kate's awesome no one knows that Michelle is coming and maybe you're going too early and maybe if you go there you may sin and you'll have to be kicked out again and every time you get kicked out of the Holy Land it's always worse than the time before and therefore the Jewish people have accepted upon themselves not to go back despite the fact that the government gives permission if the world Community gives permission the United Nation gives permission revenus and I was just rights clear as they black and white you cannot go back no matter what and I'll show you even more rabbi there's an incredible Madras the matters tells us in rabba and if you're wondering about the origin of this avram freed song here it is says the matters the number three reviews what does this mean you ready for this you can't believe it meshiach comes to Cloud Israel they say get out of this land no I'm busy I'm busy I have to make a phone call text email my teams are mashiach is here so what does cloudy thrall say sorry we can't leave Michelle says what why not sorry so says we can't go we swore to God we're not going back to Earth as well even we should get us to come back to earth to throw because of the three old s that one meshiach comes the Oaths are no longer in effect but you see very clearly from The Madras that these Oaths are not something to dismiss easily that even mashiach will have a hard time convincing us to go back and we somehow have to believe him and accept the fact that when mashiach comes the Oaths are over so that leaves us with a little bit extra work to do how do we overcome first of all the opinion of the McGillis Esther that nowadays there's no longer a Mitzvah living at Israel and in fact we can't go there in Mass because of the Three Oaks and we're behind us and ambitious writes explicitly even if the government gives permission you still can't go back how do we deal with that okay the answer is when it comes to any issue of you can't get caught up in touchy-feely feelings you have to see what the place are saying and maybe perhaps the greatest place sake who discusses this issue head on is the Avenue last week we quoted a difference we weren't So Satisfied because out of the nizra was saying well the oath is not really binding on the body it's binding on the soul that's not where the athletes are is really touching on this issue head on foreign he writes the following ibra calls alloys all of these all suddenly apply if we don't have permission to go Avil and his sigrisous but when you have permission to live there then not only are you allowed to go you are obligated to go why what does it means with a strong hand what does it mean with a strong hand look at Rashi number four we swore we're not going to go together with a strong hand but if the government allows us to go we're not going and we're not taking it by force we're just doing what they allow us to do therefore the abnenezer says it is it is his strong opinion based on the language of rashi rashi doesn't say doesn't if Rashi would say means you can't go marching then you can't go you can't go right she says it means he can't go with Force but if you're not forcing your way in if you're just a lot you're acting upon the consent of the government abnenezer rights just like we saw last week from a REV um mayor simchovinsk that it's permitted to go if the government gives permission and then the Anthony says another reason you ready for this what do you want us to do so Michelle's gonna say you know everyone in Kew Garden Hills pick yourselves up and go to eres Israel are we going to the same Chef we can't go there are three Oaths now obviously the Oaths end when mashiach comes we we swore We're not gonna go until God tells us well if mashiach comes God is telling us to go says the of the nature doesn't say only when mashiach comes God is telling us to go and this he doesn't say definitively but he says maybe if the governments of the world say you can go that in effect is God telling you you could go and the Oaths are over what do you mean you're telling me that the United States of America is reflective of the will of God yet if the nations of the world tell you to go then God's remembering you and God's telling you you have permission to go now that the nature doesn't say this definitively but he says maybe and this is another justification you could take it to the bank and I once saw you know it says F sure you could be Michael in a certain case everybody pass comes that way it means something so okay now the Avenue is there look at number six two chubas later says Dad yes I stand by what I said in Simon Thompson on dalid that if the governments of the world give us permission to go it's mutter to go and then Anthony Nazar says but what about reviewing didn't rebionists and Irish that's right black on white that even if the governments of the world say to go you still can't go the Jewish people swore to abide by the oath and even if USA China Japan they all say Jews go back to Israel we still won't go we don't pay attention to what reviews and I Bishop said he didn't say it he said it as a drasha he said it as a shot that fits nicely into the circum says Ibrahim even if you had a thousand review you can't argue on Rashi even if a hundred godola Israel he says a thousand good Islands would come and say you're now to go back even if the government gives permission but Rashi is greater than all of them and Rashi says very clearly with Force but if you're not doing it with Force says she says you can I review says you can't he only meant it as a drug it doesn't matter you could have a thousand review wouldn't follow him over Ashi and finally says the abnenezer would walk in the room today he would never argue on rash and therefore it says yeah if the governments of the world tell you to go what do we do with awareness bottom line is the man Rose even if the governments of the world tell you to go you can't go so either we don't pass and like him or you should know something very interesting about the safer in the Sun was not written by Regina how do I know I wasn't there when he did or didn't write it 200 years ago who records all this Farm written before him writes on the shame again that reviews and ibischitz's student recorded what he said so now you're dealing with not the exact words of this God though you're dealing with this student now it's a safer that's nescado and Claw Israel but they have the nasar fuels that compared to a strong dick in the words of Rashi it doesn't hold the candle so so you'll say did the samareva know the abnenezer absolutely and what do the summer rabbit hold you go look at number 12 and the safer value moisha on uh page 35 he brings down and he says that he doesn't feel the language of Rashi is as compelling as the avneaser feels he the samurai feels means even if you persuade other governments to allow you to go that's also I that's not the simple meaning black and white but you should know that the samurai was taking on the Avenue was already at the end of the 19th century a long time before and certainly the adenines one of the all-time great police game and uh this sack as well was nescabel that if the government gives you permission to go then not only is it are you allowed to but the NASA feels to go okay but I want to discuss this comment of ravianas and I was just a little bit further and bolster the argument that when the government gives permission to go it's permitted and I'm gonna offer another reason why another thing another justification because this shua that we're not going to take our soil by force nowhere does the gemara say that the shua was we're not going to take aretz Israel it says we will not go up to the wall says you know what that means we swore we're not going to go up to eres Israel and rebuild the walls of yushalayim but if you go back and reclaim Earth Israel and you reclaim your shalim and you do not rebuild the walls it would seem from the language of the martial that you're not violating the oath the martial says so that's one another justification in other words if you would want to establish a government and say look the wolves are in Ruins we'll leave it that way until mashiach comes according to martial you're not violating the oath and then the martial continues so how how is build the walls of you shall I am because the king kairish led him ah what do you mean King cars let him says that even when the government lets you still can't violate the oath you see from the martial he doesn't agree with herbianism he holds very strongly that when the government gives permission it is permitted to be Allah great man right especially in our sheer I don't think we've we've given anybody as much uh featured shurin as to be honest and ibishes right the Purim story The Return of which is definitely I think he got more good coverage than any so you should know there's another of Jonas and ivishits in the next Parsha in Paris says and in Paris is rights the following look at number nine cesarianism to lost it in the future is when the time comes for Hashem to show his love for Claude Israel Israel Hashem how's Hashem going to bring mashiach he's going to make the governments of the world turn on the Jewish people make life difficult for us Israel and we're going to be um we're going to be inspired to return to the Holy Land and it's going to be a very difficult time and then Hashem is going to send mashiach so look we'll be honest it's a saying that before mashiach comes the Jews are going to go back but wait a second we just quoted him says even when the goyam give permission you still can't go back and here he's saying very clearly before mashiach comes the Jews will be inspired to return and in fact this is the contradiction of foreign work ER has a review and he also wrote a safer which is controversial and that is about in his opinion the Mitzvah returning to Arts Israel which by the way has a haskama from Revelation who came much after him and the Shaving our lady who allowed their husband to appear on a safer and he asked this contradiction between navianes and ivishits who says that even if the government gives permission you still can't return and I'll be honest which says that before Masha comes the Jews will return and based on this contradiction the mishna sahir um gives the following interesting approach and he says like this he says yes when cloudy Israel is living in golos we swore we're not going back and we're not allowed to go back and that sort of honest and ivishits wrote that even if the goyam give permission you cannot go back but that's under normal conditions though when life becomes unbearable and in and intolerable in the golus and you cannot exist in the golus anymore you can't work and they put you in ghettos and they start slaughtering your children so now what we're still Bound by these olds what are we supposed to do stay stay there and get killed says when the Sorrows of the gaulas become unbearable it is his opinion all bets are off when he says you know how to return even with the permission of the government he's talking about one life is tolerable in the gullusk then even if the government allows you cannot return but when life becomes intolerable then not only then we have to go says maybe suckers on the textile it is my opinion that if we're doing this was here today looking at what's going on in Europe looking at the tsaris that Kalisa has to endure review will be the first to tell everybody get out of here and go to Heritage throng but he was the one who wrote you an hour to go even if the government gives permission that's on the under normal circumstances it is my humble opinion that there is no contradiction whatsoever in the words of the honest and I be shits and there's no need to come up with this explanation which is not necessarily um sound because certainly to save your life you're allowed to violate unless it's Zara I don't believe there's a contradiction where be honest and Irish it's at all let me tell you what I think my humble opinion rabbianism at least the way his student recorded his words perhaps holds that not like not like the happenings are that even when the government gives permission you can't go what is mean in his commentary precious that before mashiach comes the governments will turn on the Jews it doesn't say the government will turn on the Jews and the Jews will go to arith Israel he doesn't say the government will turn on the Jews and the Jews are allowed to go to arist Israel it says the government will turn on the Jews and the Jews will want to go to eres Israel I don't want to but they won't be allowed to and they'll have to wait for mashiach to come so I don't believe there's a contradiction in the words of honest and ibischitz but this is the approach of the aim abundance you can't give a sure on this topic without quoting from that safer so again the probably the greatest Authority that speaks very clearly on this issue are the Avenue and they both write based on Rashi and xubis that when the government gives permission it's permitted okay we move on to the next issue last week we discussed the following rationale and that is that if the guardian broke their end of the deal that they subjugated us Beyond The Pale we could break our end of the deal and the question is okay that's you know nice idea but you can't just make that up on your own you need a basis for that especially because let me tell you something it's certainly true that if I swear to you and you swear to me that if I break my oath you could break yours there's no question you have it on your sheets number 14. two people that swear to each other once one breaks the Dale the other one can break the deal but there is nothing to do with this Camara because we didn't swear to the that we're not going to take ourselves by force and the Guardians didn't swear to us that they're not going to subjugate us too much we both swore to a third party we swore to God and they swore to God so just because we they broke their end of the deal to God our end of the deal to God is maybe still binding you can make the case that when two people swear to each other then the Oaths are dependent on each other but if you're both swearing to a third party who says they're dependent on each other so here we have an unbelievable maramako I'm number 13. the haggados over no we're back to the Haggadah right back to nagada and russoma cougar asks the following question one of the six Oaths mentioned we're not going to push mashiach to come Rashi learns by diving too hard when things became unbearable right we cried out to God well I asked if Sean mcclurger how were we allowed to cry out so powerfully just like we can cry out in the gulless too much and bring the shiaq how are the Jews and met sriimel had to cry out too much to bring Gola so you say where the Jews in the trium were they Bound by the Oaths oh yes they were because we learned last week that the binay Ephraim who left maths trium early were killed because they violated the Oaths so how could the Jews of Italian cry out so hard they're violating the Oaths says of slay mcclurger you know God should have rejected God should have said now you have to stay in the time longer you know why because you're davening too much now not only do you deserve to be here you should get more punishment because you're dabbing too hard now and yet God listened to their tequila why says if someone clicker because the mitzrim violated their end of the deal they subjugated us too much and they embitter Our Lives oh the mitzvum embittered Our Lives we we could dive in too hard once they break their end of the deal we could break our end of the deal beautiful Raya this is exactly what we're saying maybe once the Holocaust happened once he had pogroms the end of the 19th century beginning of the 20th century the guy and broke their end of the deal all bets are off well moisha says not so fast why he says where did okay he pulls a good trick he said wait remember the Avenue how did the abnenees are rejected to be honest and abusive is it uh it was only a drusha he's a rabbi and he's saying a shot in the past look he didn't mean are you just sing it Russia we both could play the same game right yeah wants to say that uh Rihanna Sandwiches Plus we're in the hummus does it say that the Jews prayed too hard maybe they prayed just the right amount do you find anywhere where it says the Jews prayed too much why didn't Hashem answer them maybe because it was an ace threat sign or maybe because they prayed nicely where do we see anywhere that they prayed too much well again he's arguing under Roshana was one of the all-time great London and Claudia Israel but then he says further says the samarama wait a second if every time the guy and break their end of the deal we're not bound by our end of the deal then why were the binaya fry impunished for leaving Earth to swell early after all the midsummer already embittered our lives so all bets are off let them leave early must be then when the guardian break their end of the deal some things are binding and some things are not binding what's not binding you could dive in too hard but you want to take it back with your own hands with Force that's still binding otherwise how do you explain how the banana frame were punished and therefore in the valley he dismisses this logic however I want to tell you something there is a great God of Israel maybe you're not familiar with him his name was revhillel luchtenstein or in other words The Villa Calamine was the talmud of some sofa one of the biggest canoem in history nobody was a kanoi like with hello calamaya ifilla Calamine came to learn by the Sansa Rob and he gave muster to the Sansa Roth he was the sanzarov to the point where his khasidin wanted to get this who's this guy he's giving to the rabbi it's very interesting once came to a city and he came in man this is wrong that's wrong this is wrong this is what you want from our lives the signs are up with her last job because he didn't say a word to us he said you have to know there are two kinds of Rob Bonham it's like shifra and Pua shifra was she was my Shoppers have vladim right she made everything right she fixed everything and then Pua said poo poo poo poo Sansa Rob was like shifter I'm like Pua he said and they he was very accepted either they allowed him but he's one of the great all-time Kanan and yet it's brought down in a safer that probably nobody ever sold before and the safer rap Shalom but one of them who was a nephew of Avila kalamaya that he heard from his uncle broke their end of the deal and therefore the shpuice are off we're not bound by the choice okay and we're talking about a town middle so I'm sorry for 19th century some super writes about him unbelievable things so he does accept this argument of riversoma cooker okay I want to tell you so far Rabbi said tonight we learned from the Avenue this far we mentioned last week that with permission you could go we mentioned from the Marsha Marsha says the shmua is only to rebuild the walls of you shalim if you don't read there's no I want to share with you a number of other justifications that are brought down again we're not coming here to take sides the bottom line Israel are of this opinion again not in support of any particular movement not support of any ideology it's just one simple issue is it possible to establish a government in Arizona no comments on the one that was okay he learns that the entire of not going up to eritus Royal is only you cannot go up from bovill from Babylonia where the shrina was but you want to go up from Iran you want to go up from Syria you want to go up from North Africa you want to go up from Poland you want to go from any other country in the world there's no problem nobody ever said anything about that the gemara is only talking about that is the opinion of the hafla the samarebo said he argues on the huffler but the flaw was 200 years earlier flow is a review of some Cipher the Vilma going now this is only going it's impossible to find this is the Villa Goins third excuse me second commentary on and if you go into certain editions of the going on all the way in the back there's something called the going rights on the Posse that's why the oath is we will not return to rebuild the basement but you want to go back no problem you want to establish a government Glen has no problem as long as you don't build the base summation another reason the play Yoshua looks like an angel of God Yeshua by the way remember we learned last week from the ramban the ramban said why didn't the Jews go back in the times of Courage well he said they were Bound by the Oaths tonight Yeshua says yeah I like that not as a real reason but as like a um uh but the gamara says in Yuma there is Locker says that a Fall of Christ that would have gone up in the times of the bayashini it would have been unbelievable it wouldn't have been destroyed but what do you mean what about the three Oaths Sesame so I don't know I guess the gemara and Yuma argues on the gamark so Quentin Yeshua yeah there's a good morning service that says you can't go but there's a gemara in Yuma that says you could go and it's immaculaikus and Shas between two sugarys and the ramam doesn't bring down doesn't bring down and none of the police can bring it down why according to Peninsula very possibly because he says it's not clear in chess whether this the the gemaric subas is Lamesa and this is really Earth shattering okay this is revolutionary we know we have a tradition that when the second base was destroyed we needed to be angolos minimum minimum 1 000 years Hashem said you're gonna be and golos all day miserable and we know the day of God comes along rights if the golus was going to last 1000 years then all of these Oaths were only about binding for 1 000 years and when one thousand years are over that's the end of the oath they're no longer binding foreign and we're well past that we're 800 years after the thousand years were up you say this say this I'm going to read it to you so you believe me says it was a great oath to God that we're not going to arouse the Gula until Hashem awakens his love for us says the oath only stands for 1 000 years so you know how long ago the oath stopped more than 800 years ago so it's been all best off for a very long time and then rabbosai finally I want to share with you an amazing marriage the matter says the following rep Zara the one who taught Claudius thrall about the Three Oaks he once went to the marketplace in Babylonia to buy something look at number 22. so he told the guy that was weighing the merchandise make sure you don't cheat me the guy said I don't see you you yourself who's talking you're a Babylonian you destroyed the second you destroyed the second base on mcdosh he said I destroyed the second base I make this what are you talking about I'm not good I'm not a guy I'm a Jew I served in my grandparents served in the basement how did I destroy you didn't know what the man was talking about then he went into the basement and in the basement matters you heard the following Shear that if the Babylonians would have returned by bayashani the second base Amigos never would have been destroyed oh so obsero said I am responsible for the second base I mean there's destruction because since I'm a Babylonian descent and my great-grandparents you know why the second message was destroyed because they didn't return it's my fault to be something is destroyed what did Rob zero say you fellum Danny I'm Horace this ignoramus taught me very well that in fact we should have returned so this is very interesting State Fair by Frank who by the way was a father-in-law ever maltzer and he has asked his friend rashiva of sabata he writes based on this madrish wait a second RAB zero said you can't go back there it's a swollen mass and here he's telling the Amores he taught me good you see from this message that everything Rob Zara taught in tsubish he retracted from so all this kogamara that we're dealing with again this is a big siddish and it's maybe different I don't know if it's but it's an interesting approach you can look in the safe hotel de zav where he brings that based on this mattress rub zero himself was hezer from the forest of The gemosh Voice and then I'll tell you finally in number we only find one admirer in history that davins that he should forget everything he learned before he got to Arts Israel and that's what Zara made his way to Arts Israel Hashem that he should forget all his learning from Pavel why would he who would ever do such a thing nobody ever did such a thing why is Rob zero Dominic Nation forget and it suggested he was diving that he should forget that he taught again this is bottom line is they both wrote in the letter that wrote that he could have a thousand nobody could stand up to the sack of Rashi which he feels is that when the government gives permission you're allowed to go back probably say I am not here to change anyone's opinion I'm not here you should follow your good Island follow your monhegan I'm merely presenting the facts to you I'm only here to elevate coverator on all sides and I'm espallo shaloy Yates only but based on what we learned we understand that in the majority of yeshivas today they follow the approaches but we're almost parallel and one thing we know for sure is that the Raman paskins that before mashiach comes claw Israel has to do chuva and I don't think that happened yet still needs to do chuva suleima so we're misspella should send us the Murat saidek and we should all be necess to go up to ours israelam you've just experienced another Torah class brought to you by torahanytime.com