Dina D'Malchusa Dina - The 3 approaches In the Rishonim {Daf Hashavua Iyun Sugya Nedarim 28}

This Torah class is brought to you by Torah anytime.com. Okay. Good evening, dear friends. We're going to do the uh inadim. We're going to speak about the shas topic of the so the Mishna said that there's a type of where the way it works is if you're afraid of a murderer, a marauder, a looter, you're allowed to say no, don't touch that. Uh if this is not Truma, I ask her all the fruits in the world. Or if you're afraid of a tax collector, you're allowed to lie, make another if this is not true, I ask her all the fruits in the world. And the Gmorra says, we're talking about what you're thinking. You're only ask today. So how you evade taxes, but didn't say and the said, no, we're talking about an unauthorized tax collection. Either he's collecting too much, meaning more than authorized, or nobody appointed him. He's, you know, he's a uh freelancing tax collector. Nobody appointed him. So this den of first of all is it aa is it a and what is the source of dinina we always hear about it we always talk about it especially in the realm of taxes when people wonder you know is there a imperative and we we're always hear that it's invoked you know you go to a uh you go to central avenue and do you have to put the quarter in the meter or are you allowed to take a chance you know probably won't get a ticket are you allowed to do that or do you say right that's the topic what is the imperative of following the law of the land so the first is he brings the opinion of the he says that that maybe you're something but you have to return it. That's the opinion of the that you're not bound by says it would seem that the principle is not. So the opinion of the is that it's a what is the source of let's begin withan on our page we didn't do it on the it wasn't necessarily the quotes the rule of is by a gentile king why he owns owns the land. He could say, "If you don't do what I say, I will chase you out of the land." So since the government owns the land, they could say, "Follow our rules." Because if you don't follow our rules, then we're going to send you out of our land. Now what's interesting is I I remember I once heard from David regarding you know does apply to stop signs or does it apply to uh speed limits? Does it apply to um paying the meter? And Rabbi from what I heard many years ago and said that of all the above it applies most to meters. Why? Cuz they own the space. So you have no right to use the space if you don't pay. In other words, the lumbus of I own the land. You want the land, you want the spot, you got to follow the rules. But there's a rule. you have to drive at a certain speed, you know, that might be different. Again, this is I'm not saying obviously you have to be a loyal citizen. We're talking uh you know the the technical here but according to the applies only on but what about a Jewish king? Why is the government doesn't own the land in Israel? The Jewish people own the land of Israel. The government owns the land in the they don't own the land in Israel. By the way, the the says that this of the means that technically if you had a non-Jewish prime minister would not apply in Israel. It doesn't matter whether it's a Jewish king or a non-Jewish king. And if you had a Jewish king insar would apply. It's not um it only applies by a gentile ruler and it doesn't apply by a Jewish ruler. It only applies insar. It doesn't apply in. Okay. Now, if somebody bought from the government the right to collect taxes, you're obligated to give him the taxes. Let's say he didn't buy it. He's appointed to collect the taxes. Even if he's not he didn't buy it but he's appointed then you would not be able to swear that it's chuma to avoid taxes. So again the learns that the source of is the tax collector owns the land and if you don't follow the laws they have the right to throw you out of the land. So you'll say, "Okay, I won't pay the taxes. And if you want to throw me out of the land, throw me out of the land." Yeah, but until then, I'm not paying the taxes. It would seem like that's stealing. It's stealing. They own the land and they say we can we stipulate that if you don't pay, if you don't follow the laws, then you're trespassing on our land. That's how the rat learns. You know, I think that does fit into it would be a biblical law, right? Because you can the the prohibition of stealing applies to a Jew and to um a gentile. Okay, that's the ran. Let me just show you the there's another per the rash in okay check out the bam all taxes and fines and all the regulations of kings. that they practice in their domain. Why merit? Because all the subjects of the king accept the laws willingly. If I'm holding your money cuz the king said I could take your money. I'm the tax collector and the king said I could collect the taxes. It's not gaza. Because if you're living here, then there's a consensus. There's a willingness of all subjects of the government to accept the laws of the government. right now. That perhaps would apply to all statutes of the government to speeding to tolls to um stop signs to red lights. It's not specific we own the land so you got to pay for it. It's there is a consensus of of man that we accept upon oursel the the laws of the government. What now what how is that binding? I just give you a m I don't know if you remember last year we had a series on the ethics of war. So if you remember there is an opinion of raisi that there are no ethics of war. does not have what to say about how to fight a war. There is a universal consensus and whatever the consensus of humanity is, that is what's considered ethical. And somehow that's binding. Somehow that's binding. In other words, if the world says that um revenge has to be what's the word I'm looking for? It has to be oh proportional. Then if it's not proportional that's a violation of the universal system of ethics. Now but why exactly is universal consens consensus binding. But you see a similar in the rashbam that the the binding nature of is if you're living in a country that means we all willingly accept the law of the land. How exactly that's binding? Let's check out the chumas. The true masses which is found. If you want to know where inf says governments regularly demand certain payments. With that mindset, we establish residence under their domain and we accept upon ourselves their yoke and burden. The lion of the sad implies we agreed to establish residence based upon this. So does that also mean that you mean in other words in the quoting tyus it's because they own the land therefore they make the rules and we have no right to be in the land if we don't follow the rules. That's how the ran learned meaning they have the right to say if you don't do what we say get out of here. So that's stealing maybe the sadesh and the is saying close to that it's not that they have the right because according to by the it didn't apply in Israel because since they don't own the land they can't say to us if you don't keep the law get out of here but the way the learns it's not that they could say we own the land so if you don't keep the law get off my land it's that anyone who lives somewhere under the domain even Maybe if they don't technically own it, but living somewhere is a implicit acceptance of the law. It's some kind of treaty. What's binding on that? What you know, in other words, what element of that binds you? It's we accepted it upon oursel. Interesting. We accepted it upon oursel. Okay. There is seemingly another way to understand dinina and that is the opinion of the raino and the way dina works according to is heer bzan hear rao is found in alien the gumar baba basra says it's not going to be anything to someone else, but it will release property from the hands of an owner. The property is from the owner according to the laws of the king. And therefore, if you go down to that property when you're commanded by the king, you acquire it. It's not that the king has the ability to transfer it to you. The king has the ability to render it ownerless. If nobody is in it, so what would you say according to would you have to pay a quarter for a parking spot? According to the Ran, they own the spa, they own the land. They could say, "If you don't follow the law, get off the land." According to the Rajbam, if you're if you agree to live in the United States of America, you've accepted upon yourself the law of the land otherwise move to Cyprus. According to Raa, all they have the right to do is render something Hefkar. But that would not obligate you to follow specific dictates, you know, traffic laws or meters. But according to the you would have to they own the land. Um fine these are three perm again we're just you know I'm just sharing with you the basic principles of the of the rishinim if I can there's one more approach in the suga and this is the dvaram and if I would have gone on this trip one day earlier with the rest of the group. I would have gone to Kavna to the Dvara of Ram but abyssal learning we have to do also you know anyway so I'm going to ram simka the next night the dar of has a different understanding here he says yes indeed it works out it's hekar bezen hear but how does bezdon have the right of hefer bezen hekar who gave bez than the right. We we say this hear. Yeah. Where they get that power from. So the du says that the den of hefkarz and hear emanates from the power of bezden. Let me let me let's see some the king the people wanted a king. So tells the people okay you want a king here are the rules of the king this is the law of the king who will rule who rule over you he'll take your kids put them in the chariot and his cavalry your kids are going to have to run before his chariot he's going to make them officers of thousands They're going to have to plow for him and harvest and make his weapons. He's going to take your daughters. They're going to be pure perfumery makers and butchers and bakers. And you know what else? He's whatever good fields and vineyards or orchards you have, he's going to take. He's going to give it to his servants. He's going to take from your crops. He's going to give it to his attendants. He's going to take your slaves and your maid servants. He's going to take your donkeys. Basically, say you, you know, you got to be careful what you ask for. You want a king? H this is what a king's going to do. From these, we see that they're denim of a king. A king could do what he wants. So the curious safer on the Rambam says the D of Dino Dina is learned out from D and say for in of the he brings in that case perhaps is only if you have an actual king, not a and the says but most say that this is not the source of most say like the own so they could tell you keep the conditions but the curifer learns it's d mel and if it's d melik it would be only for a melik proper That's not stealing to collect taxes. From anyway, the three main approaches we learned from the is they own the land. So if you don't keep the law, they could tell you to get off. You have the of the rashbam and baba basra that if you live somewhere there's some kind of acceptance to take upon yourself willingly the law of the land and there's the power that talks about that the melik hasn't he and these various perushim we have to work out is it a dindisa is it a dindan is it only a real king but or any power meaning the perushim of the rishim would not require an actual king. Okay, Rabbi say so tomorrow night is going to be the par and at 950 approximately uh we're going to have which is a relatively short very short blot. Okay, thank you very much everyone. Have a beautiful night. You've just experienced another Torah class brought to you by tora anytime.com.