Daf Hashavua - Nedarim 35a

This Torah class is brought to you by tora anytime.com. Okay, good evening everyone. Continuing in asked if somebody says my kar is user to you and then you gave it to the guy as a mat what is the what is the emphasis is the emphasis on my kikar so it's only user to you when it's my kikar when I give it to you it's not my kikar it's your kar so you're lagget Where's the emphasis on on you? So whether it's mine or whether it's in your domain, I'm assuring it to you. Rava responded logically it should be assur. It's obvious it's asser because if it's not assur when he gave it to him, why in the world did he need to make it asser? He needed to make it assur while before he gave it to him. Before he gave it to him, of course it's assur because it belong to to me. It belonged to the owner. He didn't have to asser it to somebody else. He doesn't have to. What? He made it user so the guy doesn't steal it. The guy wasn't allowed to steal it anyway. So the Gumar said back, well that's not necessarily compelling. Maybe he asserted it for a case where you invited him to his to your house. That's why he asserted it. So now we're going to discuss this shila of asked Rava. Okay. Rava again held that it's logical that it would be user as we're gonna ask a question on what Rava said if he said to another guy Hashilani Parasa he said lend me your cow lend me your cow and the owner of the cow said no I'm not going to lend you the cowi I asked her the cow that I own and I asser it to you or my property is to you and if I have another cow besides this in other words he's saying like this what do you mean I shall lend you my cow I only have one cow and I need a cow for myself and if you don't believe me that this is my only cow I'm telling you right now I uh this cow is user to you or all my possessions are user to you if I have another cow. The only thing is right after he said that about 500 cows in his backyard said moo. And uh so obviously he was proven wrong because he said you know he promises this is his only cow. The only thing is right after he said that like he got knocked over by about 500 cows barging out of his front door. Or let's say the guy says lend me your shovel. Oh, I the I have or the one I just bought or my possession should be to you. So either he says, "I ask her this shovel that I have that I bought or I asked for all my possessions." And he says, "I have another shovel." Turns out he has other cows. He has other shovels. So is like this. So basically he's assering his possessions or his cow or his shovel to the other guy. while the while the person who made the ne is alive. So then the uh the the shovel or the cow is going to be user to the mud m but if the guy died or he gave him a gift har it's mut to him this is a direct contradiction to raba rabba said that once you give it to the guy if you ask the guy in my If you say if if I say my thing is to you ra said it's even when you give it to the guy even though it's not yours anymore but here we see explicitly that if you took a toer your cow or your shovel to the guy and then you give it to the guy so it's it's permitted. So it's a ona look in the regarding the cow placed in front of them. I the cow that I bought to you. I ask her on you this cowi if all I if I have more than this cow or he asks all his possession if he doesn't have if he has another cow. So if it turns out he has another cow. because when the guy dies, it's not his possession right now. The mad gave it to the mud and it's still permitted. So it's aasha who answers So the Rabikar here has a bomba of aasha says what's the kasha on rabba? The only reason raba said that it's for sure asser is cuz why else do you need to asser the the food to the guy? You don't need to asser it so he doesn't steal it. But here says here maybe Rava's logic would not apply. Maybe in this case maybe in this case it's mut. Why? Because you only meant to asser it to the guy if you when you say it's assur to you. You meant if I lend it to you it's assurer to you but if I give it to you as matana maybe then it's mut to you in other words asker the only reason raba said that it's for sure user to the guy is because the only reason says that it's user to the guy is because why else are you assering it to him? You're not assering it to him in case he steals it from you. But here there's another option. Maybe you answer the cow or the cardom in case you lend it to him. Lending was not possible by food. You could only lend a cow or a shovel. You can't lend a kar. In any event, that's he leaves off as a to which the Gar answers um really if you give it to the guy straight, it's going to be you know what it means that it means if he gave it to him through a third party. It was given to him by someone else. So since he got it through someone else, so he's allowed to be na from it. Just like we saw in the run last in last week that if you answer somebody on your kar for sure if you give it to someone else and there's a guy in between it would not be user to the third guy. saysami. Another proof that it's talking about where a third person gave it to him. It says, no, it doesn't actually say because the says but it means we have a tradition that the are it was given to him. Not that gave it to but it was given to a third party says the gave it to a guy off the street and then this guy gave it that guy gave it to the mudami. They had such a tradition to read it given with even though it's not spelled any different. In other words, not that they had a tradition that there was a y in the word, they had a tradition to read it. Okay. Duran adds we hold like rava that even though he gave it to as matana it's asser because rava held mis that way and we have a dayami that in fact we have a tradition that it's only mut because it was given the raja adds that just like if you gave it as matana it's user if the mudar bought it from him it would also be user. Okay. Now we have a very interesting Shilah. Is there an by? What is a co? A kum is a kind of nether. But the kind of nether it is is it's like saying carbon. So is that like being is it like being so that you're we know if you make a nether you say that something's as a nether there's no there's no but what if you use the lion of soam is a type of so to speak carbon is there says the Do we say that he made it like a carbon or not? So Ra asked this question from said we learned it in the Mishna. We learned in the Mishna that if somebody is bahana and somebody returns an aveda to him and it's a place where normally the person who returns a gets paid then you can't just keep the without paying him but you have to give the money to the money has to go to he why does the money have to go to heish all the guy did is he made a nether you can't get hana yehuda enjoys this right um all the guy made a nether all the guy did is he made a nether that he can't get hana so okay so I won't get hana so I'll take the money and I'll give it to um the you know the the Iranian regime or something or I'll give it to the yama I'll put in the dead sea why do I have to give it to hectish the guy only made a nether a kum what's he giving it to hectish for why can't he put it in the dead sea You know there's the shil the scientists are could an amoeba live in the dead sea right but normally we say that if something is thrown into the dead sea so why is it says falls into heish that means that even though you made an isam the isam which says you can't get h because it goes to hectic That's why it says you give the money to it means to say just like there is so there is look in the people if there's no commonality between a should have said let the go into the Dead Sea like it says always since there are I'm sorry since we're we're dealing with so let the fall to heish So this was a sha as from said the mash are like really it seems like whether has a hectish is let's say I say [Music] This loaf of bread is hectish to everyone. I said this is hectish. What does that mean like that? I want my to be likeish. So then if it's eaten whether the guy eats it or someone else there's since it has a full of hectish it could be redeemed butish this should be hectish to me so it's not hectish to everyone so it's limited in its hectishness if he ate it who mal he's mal if his friend eats it his friend is not mal Therefore, there's no this is the opinion of the continued even if he said it's for everyone he's not there's no holds obviously and Let's see the he answered it with a to everyone. granted it's only to him. So it's interesting even though it's only user to him and the fact that it's only to him makes it there's no but he would still be violating since this friend is not. It is not strong like that. The should be whether it's a general that is user to everyone whether it's it's a specific nevertheless there's no so it's between who says says and say how do we pass in look in the ran the ran says we hold like raor interesting I you may know the rule is we don't pass like rare you may have heard such a thing in your life so the ran says nakman proved from the Mishna and and was a bas also in where so therefore we hold the very interesting gagan the garra says so now we just okay look at this layer of the son of said to if I say my is user to you and I give it to you as a gift who is let's say like this I say my isser to you now truth is we just said there's only if it's user to everyone. Nobody says there's if I just say oh meaning the the ram holds that if there is if I just answer it to myself if I say so here I'm saying my asser to you and then okay so in this case the kikar to you by the way I would say this is another riya that is because this whole Shilah is going to be dependent on this whole Shil is assuming and now the Shil is who's if I say my to you and I give it to you am I or are you now you might remember we learned we had a mus earlier that a very interesting mahikus that if let's say I answer you with a nether and then I give it to you to eat and you eat it who is malus so pus if I remember correctly the rush holds you're the one who's the is on you but the raam holds no the is the one who served it you're not just that's See you soon. So let's see how that plays a role over here says I say that my loaf is to you and then he gave it to the guy as a gift. If the giver is user the the the loaf is not user to the giver which the ran asked what do you mean the ram holds that the isur of is on the on the one who serves it the recipient is why can't he the say he could he could Say I only wanted something I didn't want something. What exactly does that mean? Look in the who is in this giving just like we say by if you take a stone or a beam of hectish even though you didn't take it out of the of hectish here also So since I was it leaves the rus of the one who's answering it the it's entering the what the is saying is I asserted to you the rule is that when somebody takes something of hectish there is mah because it leaves the rishus of the and it enters the rishus of the mabel and the next round the says that this is a raam the raam says in that and then you feed him the mad is Because like we saw earlier, where was that? Remember that the rush and the who is when you feed somebody something that's to them. So do we say the no is not it's not user to the no maybe it's user to the mabel because normally we say by hectish that by the person who takes it in other words let's say you you you lift it up you're so maybe the mabel is by being mabot to which the gar says no maybe he could say I only wanted something I didn't want something let's see if he would have known that it's but he would not want to be he was it erroneously But we know that when you're thinking that if you pick something up ofish thinking that it's you're even though you take something out of it's possible even erroneously it's different he's not the one who took it out his friend took it So in other words, if you erroneously take something out of hectic but here I'm not the one who took it out. You who gave it to me took it out. I just received it. In other words, the sh is if somebody erroneously thinks something is and he takes it out of hectic but was the one who took it out of or since the guy gave it to him the is the one who took it out to which this was the shah that said and said when he takes it out Meaning meaning when he uses it anyone who uses the money of hectish for who thinking that it's we just said if somebody takes something out of hectish is just erroneously thinking it's he'sel. So this guy is also even though as we said he's not the one who took it out. Let's look in the says right now neither is for the reasons we mentioned namely the is not it's not to him theel for receiving it he's not he said uh I only wanted I I acquired it uh Um, I acquired it. I only wanted it. But when he uses it, when he uses it, he's true regarding when he picked it up. We say he the picking up is not because he was when he uses it. Meaning the gar and the wanted to say why should the be on he was in it erroneously to which is saying granted he was in it erroneously so the moment he picked it up he's not over but when he uses it then when he uses it we don't say it's like anyone who spends the money of thinking that once he uses it, he's definitely so maybe when he picks it up to be, but when he uses it, he's definitely going to be on. Tomorrow we start a new Mishna regarding if someone's could he be and we're going to be doing the of whether or Have a great night. When he says he uses what I mean what recording stop. Sorry. What does it mean to be using the bread? Who uses look for bread? What's the purpose of using lo? I mean tell me eat the bread. Why why using? What does use mean? Yeah. I mean I what do I use a loaf of bread for? step on to to reach something to get you know for a decoration. What's the whole purpose of using a loaf of bread? Using means really eating. Yeah. Using and unless unless whatever he it's warm and he he gets benefit whatever when he gets something out of the bread. You've just experienced another Torah class brought to you by tora anytime.com.