Daf Hashavua - Nazir 8a

Recording in progress. >> Okay, I get to walk I get into walk. The might say menucha. The truma sadashan uh taught as recorded in the safer like a yosha that the reason we start slichos motzei shabbos is because on shabbos we learn torah and slichos requires simcha so we need the simcha shell torah to usher us into the may have slichos as one of slichos. So, may this uh give us the right hakdama to lishmaya l'arina v'al hatfila. Says the mishna, much of this mishna we already learned before was quoted before. Harini nazir k'sa'ar roshi, behold I'm a nazir like the hair on my head. U'k'afar ha'aretz, or like the dust of the earth. U'k'chol hayam, harizei nazir olam. You're a nazir olam. We had what that means, the gemara explained on daf zayin as you're the there you are the a perpetual nazir. You're a perpetual nazir. Meaning, you're constantly having one series after another of 30 days of nazirus. Per the number of hairs on your head, you have to accept an a series of nazirus per the number of hairs on your head. So, whether you say like the hair on my head, u'k'afar ha'aretz, or like the dust of the earth. U'k'chol hayam, or like the sea or like the sand. Harizei nazir olam. You're a nazir perpetually. U'megale'ach echad l'shloshim yamim, you cut your hair once every 30 days. Rebbi Oimer, ein zeh megale'ach echad l'shloshim yamim. This scenario, you do not cut your hair every 30 days. V'eizehu megale'ach echad l'shloshim? What is uh someone who cuts his hair every 30 days? Ho'imer, harei alai nazirus. Not I am a nazir. If you say I am a nazir, like the hair on your head, you're not a nazir every 30 days. If only you have to articulate that you're accepting a period of nazirus. Harei alai nazirus. Kisaru is you kafar al atzmi k'chol hayam. I accept a period of nazirus like the hair on my head, like the dust of the earth, and like the sand on the sea. Next case. Hareini nazir malei habayis. I am a nazir full of the house, or maleiha kupa, or full of the basket. Now, we have no idea what this guy means. What What kind of, you know, unusual statement is that? I'm a nazir full of the house. I'm a nazir full of a What are you going to put in the house? You You could put one elephant, or you could put a billion, uh, you know, a million, uh, grains of rice. You could put a billion grains of sand. What does the guy mean? A basket full. A basket full of what? One basket full and a thousand grains of rice. What What does he mean? Boidkin I say. So, we ask him. Imma Mar if he says, "I'll tell you what I mean. Achas gedolah nazarti. I meant one big nazirus. I meant because nazirus is a pain in the neck, like it's endless for me." So, then nazir lamed yom. Imma Mar if he says, "Stop nazarti. What do you mean? What did I mean? You think I thought about it? I never thought about it. I just said it. I meant stam. I don't know. Tell He says, "You tell me what I meant." Objectively, what does that statement mean? Then ro'in es hakupa kilu maleiha chardal. We view the basket as if it's full of mustard seeds. Then nazir kol yamav. He's a nazir forever, meaning he's a nazir 30 days for each grain of mustard. >> [snorts] >> Says Tosafos, "Hareini nazir maleiha bayis, maleiha kupa perush bayis re'konis. We about an empty house, a Kupa reconus lufnen or an empty ba basket. It doesn't mean he meant an empty one. A an empty full ba meaning I want a Nazir I accept upon myself Nazirus a empty basket full of stuff. We just don't know what the stuff is. Boid can I say we check him in Mama Achas Gedola Nadarti Nazir If he says I I took upon myself one big one, he's a Nazir 30 days. Pirush Nazirus Achas Nadarti. I made one Nazirus. The Had the K'amar Malaya Bayis. The reason why he referenced the house full the Arich Milisa. It's very long for him. Right? We had that on Zayin Amud Aleph. The Ino Nazir Ela Shloshim Yom. He's only a Nazir for 30 days. The Imam Achas Tam Nadarti Royan Hakupa Kilam L'Achad the Nazir Kayam The Rabanan Del El Nazirus Achas Nazirus Ul Rabbi Nazirus Aroch. According to the Tana Kamma, he means a Nazirus after a Nazirus cuz the Tana Kamma holds K'Sa'arei Shi is perpetually 30 days of Nazirus and Rabbi has Rabbi holds no. One long Nazirus because he didn't say He said Harini Nazir. He didn't say Hareini Nazirus. So therefore Tosefos is pointing out Rabbi would say that he's not a Nazir for each um mustard seed. He's one long he's a Nazir for 30 days. Later in the Mishna, we had all these cases today actually when we were reviewing on of Zion. I really know kind of mocking plenty. I am a Nazir from here until such and such place. Who remembers from today's Hazara what was the place that we used? >> Detroit. >> Not Detroit. >> Louisiana. >> Not Louisiana, Wyoming. Okay, that was the official Wyoming. Actually, when we learned it during the week we picked San Diego cuz the majority of our sheer were San Diego, but they for them they're like the most shall shoot us now. Um but they're going to listen to it and when they do they'll just smile. Okay, but so I'm a Nazir from here until such and such place. I am deem coming on and we kind of mocking plenty. We determine how long is it until this place. If it's less than 30 days, Nazir you're Nazir for 30 days. Then love otherwise Nazir coming in the Yemen you're a Nazir for the number of days it takes to get to this and this place. I really know there coming [clears throat] in you might say comma. I'm a Nazir commensurate with the days of the solar year. I'm a Nazir in accordance with the days of the solar year. My name is yours coming in you might say comma. He has to count the periods of Nazir us commensurate with the number of days in the solar year. Meaning he doesn't observe a 365 day Nazir us, he observes 365 different series of Nazir us. Why do we say that? Cuz let's see Tyson. We can be at mocking plenty pockets me love me down. Nazir from here until such and such place, less than 30 days, you're Nazir for 30 days. Why me did I have a I married Nazir I married it's the same thing as a guy who said I'll be a Nazir for one day. To have a Nazir Lam at Yime that he's a Nazir for 30 days because the minimum Nazirus is 30 days. Ve'im lav Nazir Kaminion Hayamim. Who get the precious L like we explained earlier the Myri Kisha Hasik Badar. We're talking about where you already took the road. Remember on the Zion and the Gamara explained that once you start traveling then >> That's our good luck. >> Then you want the the host of the Nazirus commence with the number of days it takes. So we say it's commence with the number of days that you take that it Moina Nazirus Kaminion Yime Shana. Now you can ask on this case. I thought only by independent entities do we say that you accept upon yourself 30 days commensurate with each entity. But days the Gamara said on the Zion is not a separate entity. But here it's a little bit different. Why? The Hainu Shin Sama Hadashim. Yia Nazir Nazir Nazirus this is you'll be a Nazir of 365 days. One Nazirus after another. When we got the time you're going to shave in between. You can take a haircut in between. We may be carving. Ah. So you'll say didn't we have on the Zion that days are not independent entities? No, but he said Kaminion. Kaminion implies per each day that is counted. Since the days are counted as separate entities, so now it's going to be Uh, 30 day Nazirus for each day. Kima de kama communion mashima nazirus It's mashima nazirus the long nazirus araq. Not one long nazirus. The Mishnah concludes Amora vihuda massa haya kivan she hishlam mase. There's a story about a guy who accepted upon himself different nazirus. He said, "I'm going to accept upon myself nazirus communion shinais ama, which takes about 30 years. And after he finished his 365 different nazirus, he uh uh he he died just at the right time. Amora vihuda massa haya vikivan she hishlam mase. Vihuda lasiua latana kama kasi. He's supporting the tanakama. Vikama massa haya. He's saying there's a story vikivu nazirus harbe. The rabbis obligated him to observe many series of nazirus. Vikivan she hishlam kulai mase. Since he completed the whole nazirus he died. Fine. Says the Gamara, wait a second. It says that if a guy says a house full of nazirus or a basket full of nazirus, and he says, "I don't know what I meant. You tell me what I meant." We look at the basket like it's full of mustard seeds. I mean, why do we view it like it's full of mustard seeds? Why don't we view the basket like it's full of watermelons? By the way, watermelons are bigger than mustard seeds. Yeah? So, why why is why we viewing the basket as if it's Why we being so machmir on him? We don't know what he meant, so let's assume it's uh you know, full of mustard seeds. Why not watermelons? Royan es ha kupa ki male hardol. We view the basket like it's full of mustard when a Nazir called Yuma of an easy Nazir. Endlessly why don't we make believe that it's full of gourds and melons so the guy should have some remedy why why we busting his chops, you know? Why don't we view it like there are amoeba in his basket so that he's going to be even after the guy is still going to be a Nazir. I mean why don't we view it like there you know um you know ostriches inside of his basket. Dinosaurs says the Gamara. Actually this is this matter will be a subject of debate. Enters himself into a matter that it's uncertainty is more strict than it's certainty. Let's see for a moment. That we view as if it's full of mustard and in my tacona and the guy has no remedy. Why don't we view it full that it's full of dough but in this guy being zealous in a zero the guy's coming was only for one Nazir as and we'll be lenient with him. As so the Gamara wants to answer that there's a general in Chas when a guy says something we don't know what he means so what does he want us to do if we don't know what he means? Does he want us to negate what he said since we have no clarity what he means or does he say or does he want since we don't know we're just going to put on him all the most strict possible interpretations of his words and that's what he had in mind that since his words are unclear we're going to take every possible strictness and hurl it on him that or that's one opinion another opinion is we don't know what he means so we have to negate what he said we have to render what he said null and void. So the mission is saying that that's a kiss in general when a guy says something we don't know what he means do we interpret it strictly do we interpret it leniently and our mission is going like Shimon who says that the guy is he has the guts that when he says something with that we have uncertainty what he means that will interpret it strictly. The Tanya we learned in the irony Nazir I'm a Nazir on condition the basket has this the pile has a hundred core of measurement. The guy made his Nazir is contingent on that in this pile there's X amount of measurement. The whole school must say she got enough. And he came back and he was going to count is there a hundred core and I'm a Nazir or is there is it or perhaps there's not a hundred core I'm not a Nazir and he came back and lo and behold it was stolen. So there's absolutely no way to determine whether there was a hundred core and therefore there's no way to determine is he a Nazir or not. Or it shall be or is lost. Shimon I say Shimon I say is why she has something Nazir to have mayor cuz when you're in doubt whether Nazir is effective or not mayor and we say we'll treat it like you are a Nazir. Reb matter Reb allows it she has something Nazir L'chatchila. Sefek Nazirus is lenient, says Tosefos. So if Shimon I said the Sefek Nazirus is Achrayus, we should not be worried how you buy Meah Kor. We'll come on and explain Takanah Later on we're going to explain a Takanah of Rebbi Shimon. Because We'll see the Maharav Rensburg Reb Betzalel Rensburg, which by the way he's buried next to the Noda B'Yehuda in Prague. I think he was a Talmid of the Noda B'Yehuda. He says that later on Dof Yud Gimmel the Gemara will be explained what exactly is this rectification according to Rebbi Shimon. So later on the Gemara will explain the Takanah in Rebbi Shimon the Omer Kodshim She'askil L'man Shemayim Nazirusai Basically before he starts to count the Nazirus Im Hoyu B'Meah Kor. If there were 100 Kor of Harayni Nazer and I'm a Nazer Me'dibur Rishon Hinei Ashlim Nidaray, I'm going to fulfill my Neder U'mayvi Korbanosav and I'm going to bring my Korbanos. V'im Lo Hoyu B'Meah Kor, if I there isn't V'im Kein B'dibur Lo Hoyu B'Mamesh, and then what I said has no effectiveness, Harayni Nozer B'Nazer Achshav. I'm going to be a Nazer now, V'yehi Nazer Shloshim Yom, V'yovi Korbanosav V'ein Kan Chulin B'Azara K'yu Nazer Shloshim. Either way and meaning What does Rebbe Shimon mean you're a Nazir Rebbe Shimon says Rebbe Shimon says Okay, but What's the guy going to do? He's going to He's going to bring carbonos to the Azara but he might not be a Nazir and then he's bringing into the Azara. So the takana is what the guy says that if my first Nazir is effective good. I'm observing it now and I'm going to bring my carbonos and if the first Nazir was not effective then I'm taking upon myself a Nazir now and I'll observe that Nazir. But skip Rebbe Yehuda matters Nazir so how can He never accepted anything unless he finds a hundred meaning Our Mishnah that says that if somebody says I'm a basket full of Nazir he's a He's a Nazir forever 30 days and 30 days 30 going like Rebbe Shimon cuz you have to take the more shita. But what would Rebbe Yehuda say? Rebbe Yehuda say will be and will say what he meant was a basket full of basketball. So I'm only accepting one Nazir upon myself. So the Gemara is a initial understanding of this Mishnah is to align the time of the Mishnah with Rebbe Shimon who says when a person says something that we're not sure what he means will be on him. And the Gemara says no no no no no. Rebbe Yochanan Our Mishnah you don't have to lock in only only to Rebbe Shimon. You You don't have to say that our Mishnah doesn't fit in according to Rebbe Yehuda. Rebbe Yochanan Our Mishnah you can even say it's Rebbe Yehuda is only lenient in that case case, don't even know if the guy meant to be a Nazir in the first place. So, then we'll say if we don't know if he meant to be a Nazir, we'll say we'll negate what he says. We can't treat him as a Nazir misafeq. But in our Mishnah, we know the guy for sure is a Nazir. We just don't know how long. So, once the guy was nochis to be a Nazir, and now we don't know does he mean a basket full of basketballs or basket full of mustard seeds, then what? Once we know he's a Nazir, he's like bechas cast a Nazir, we'll tack him on we'll say we'll be machmir. You're a Nazir endlessly. When we don't know if he's a Nazir in the first place, that's when Rebi Yehuda says we'll we'll be lenient. But one once he's for sure is a Nazir, and we don't know if uh how how long, then even Rebi Yehuda would say we'll be machmir. Says the Gemara, Rebi Yochanan Amar, "Afilu tamei Rebi Yehuda." You can even say our Mishnah is consistent with Rebi Yehuda. Hasam lei nochis leilei Nazirus. There, he never consented to be a Nazir. Definitely, we're not sure if he consented for Nazirus. Hacha, but here, nochis lei lei Nazirus. He did consent to be a Nazir. Tosefos, "Afilu tamei Rebi Yehuda, hasam lei nochis lei Nazirus klal." There, he never he never descended to the status of Nazirus. Kal vachomer, meaning to say, in laha'atala of Nazirus, we're not going to place Nazirus on him. Dishamalei hoyu ba'ei me'ikar. Maybe there wasn't a hundred court. But hacha, nochis lei Nazirus, bema'ei uh leslukei minei. What does that mean? Here, [snorts] let let me read the words one more time in the Gemara. Hacha, nochis lei lei Nazirus. Here, he did Therefore, bema'ei how can you remove it from him? Says the In the Mishnah, he's definitely one Nazirite. But even if he meant a basket full of dough, but since he did descend into the status of Nazirite, any status like you can't remove him. You can't remove him. You can't remove him. Says the Gemara, what are you talking about? In the Mishnah, he definitely descended to Nazirite. Yes, he descended to Nazirite. But he only descended to one Nazirite. But once that one Nazirite is over, now we have a question. Did he Is he done and he could go home and play pickleball or or whatever he wants to do? Or does he need to continue? So once that initial Nazirite is over, it's the same question. Is he done? Was he Did he descend to Nazirite or or not? In other words, it's true initially in our Mishnah, he was Nazirite Nazirite and he definitely is a Nazirite, but once that Nazirite is over, then we have no idea at all whether he should be a Nazirite again or not. So now all all all bets are off. Says the Gemara, why? I might lay. Why can't you Why can't you shake him off? Why can't you remove him? Let's say the cooper view the basket kimale kishon of the wood. The havaleta kanta so he could have a remedy. Let's see Tysis and we'll end with this. Let it be full of melons or male about but the havaleta [clears throat] kanta. Meaning to say Okay, now this is interesting. What do you want this guy to do? You don't know whether the guy should be a nazir for 30 days, 30 days, 30 days, 30 days or one nazirites. Here. Let him take a haircut at the end of 30 days. The Yovi carbon. He's shaving correctly. Even if he accepted nazirites commensurate with the number of mustard seeds. He could take a haircut after 30 days because I got a day to because the gamara thinks he amar chado. If he said mustard seeds for nazirites, claimer have a nazirites for nazirites or he accepted upon himself many periods of nazirites, not one long one. The kiva galak once he shaves after once he takes a haircut at the end of 30 days. Shuv letatle aleha nazirites. Where be Huda? We should not put any more nazirites on him. Who's to say he accepted mustard? The mabatsik maybe dough. The hishom nidri the hash to dummy lahi decree. Once he serves one period Now we have a question. Was he not again to the zeros? It's not a good to say well in the mission he definitely is another and now the question is how many and then so then everyone is when are they make all whether we're not sure if he became another to begin with but once he observes one to zeros then it's back to the beginning and we don't know is he at this point in time not to the zeros or not. Now it's the now it's exactly parallel to the case of the basket the matter Why can't you shake him? Okay and we will hold it here that is and sometime before the High Holiday we need to learn some of these. Okay, thank you for joining the menucha guy out.