Daf Hashavua - Nazir 13a

Okay, good evening everyone. Actually, today was a good makeup day. This is our sixth dash. Today we did and yud andaf andafud andess and okayir means we did a uh briskarov we did a we did we did a karan and other gishmaka and yanim okay but now we're continuing in dafia gimmel there's the wedding tomorrow night. We're in the middle of the Mishna. The Mishna said Mishna began by talking about a guy who said, "I'll be in when I have a Ben." And he had a Ben. He's a Nazar is going to ask, "Okay, no kidding. You know what's a kadesh? If he had a daughter, a tum and androgynist, he's not an if he says when I have a child, then he's a nuzer. Even if he's a tum, a daughter, um, a tum or an androgynist, he's a nuzzer. Fine. Kipila is if let's say um if let's say his wife miscarried so then ain't another he's not another why so on the one hand you say well the child was not viable okay but you don't know that just because the child died, maybe the child was born and it was healthy and then it just happened to die. So really if the child of the wife miscarried, it's a suffic. So the tanama may hold that you're you're not you're not into so the first opinion holds says no there's a simple way simple way out you should say as follows if the child was viable hari Um, he should say if the child was viable. So then I'm a I'm an obligatory noser. I already am a noser. I already am a noser because when the child was born it triggered the fulfillment of my vim. If the child was not viable right now I'm accepting upon myself ani fine. So the tanakama holds me suffic you're not a nazer says you're a suffic nazer and this is a simple way out of it what if after the woman miscarried she had another viable child so the first the tanakama holds okay harer now you're a ner the first time you weren't now you are shim says no you were a suffic the first time so now that you say like this and if the first kid was viable then I was obligatory originally and now my acceptance is the if the child was not viable the first time then my first acceptance was voluntary vis And this is obligatory. Now let's just think about that for a moment. According to Rab Shim, you were a sufferer the first time cuz we don't know if the child was a Ben Cayama or not. So Rim says you should say if the first one was a Ben Cayama the re the first guy the first time I was a Nazer and this one is um a a generous offering. So then what we have to see are you a nuzer twice are you accepting upon yourself an additional nazerus and if the first one was not viable then I already made a nazerus nadava the first time and now it's a why isn't now it's a because I said if my if my wife has a baby then I'm a nazer so now I'm a nazer the first time didn't really count let's see twice another conception a viable childhud um what's the ga what is this going on take out the word vald instead put it from this um the first miscarriage it's not even a suffer it's like that child never even came into existence says you should say as follows holds from the time that the woman miscarried have a sufficer. You should stipulate in this second uh birth the if the first one was viable. So I was the ne of nazeros through the first nazeros and the second nazeros is just a generous offering. But then maybe the first one was now through this birth it is resting on me in obligatory cuz I made another that when the child is born I'll accept you have to make this tonight. Why do I have to make the tonight? I already accepted Nazirus the first time. No, the the first Nazirus was only an adava. But I accepted upon myself an obligation that when my wife has a baby, I'm going to be another. Maybe it was a fine. Uh says says the garra. Hi myra. Hi myra. What's the what's the first case that said if a guy says if my wife has a baby if my wife has a boy I'll be a nazer and she has a boy and he's a what's the says there's no it's because of the what is the that if it's a daughter we're not you're not says gar of course not it's obvious that you're not a nazer you said a ben No question is what does the word Ben mean? Does Ben mean a boy or does it mean some type of being? I would have thought he meant when I am built up and I have progeny kamash that no a ben means a boy says not an actual male progyny like fine If he says that I'll be when I have a a child. So then even a says they're all children. No, we're talking about a child that people consider And people considered malev a child is a child says um a daughter is not considered as significant. No, he said a child a child is a child. If the woman miscarried then he's not a nazer and we don't know basically we don't know if the child was a Benama. So the tanama holds you're not says it's of the case of the pile who if somebody says I'm a nuzer if there are 100 measurements in this pile and you come back and somebody took away from the pile. So there's no way to know whether it had the requisite measurement. Rabuda says you're not a nazer at all. Not that you're a suffic nazer. You're not you're not nicknive nazer. you won't accept it upon yourself. says in the par that we learned earlier in the first par it's taught if it's stolen if the pile is stolen decree we said earlier the case of the pile this is Not Rabbi Huda who says that there's a lack of articulation. Why? Because that rabihuda who says that when you make a nether it can't be dependent on an outcome which is uncertain. Then even if the child was viable, you wouldn't be a nazer because at the time you made it, the outcome was uncertain. It has to be the rabbi Huda who holds that when you don't know when it's not definitive that you're a nazer, you're not a nazer. But it's not rabihuda that there's no such thing as nazerus dependent on something that the outcome is not known at the time. Cuz then even if the child would be a ben kayama, it would not be neros because we wouldn't know at the time what the outcome would be. Fine. Now we said you should say as follows. If the first child was viable I was aer for a otherwise now the child was not viable. I'll be as ana. What about the following case? asked Rauna the following I'll be and have a son and the wife had a miscarriage the Hifish carbon and he said he separated a carbon for the Nazeros the wife the guy committed himself that when his wife has a son, he'll be another. The wife miscarried. He separated a carbon. At the time, the carbon was a saf and then she had another baby mahu. What's a halaka? That's a shila. That's a shall as from he said his wife had a miscarriage. He separated a carbon and he had and she had another baby. Let's see. He separated Vladama. From the same conception, he had another child. What in the world does that mean? From the same conception, he had another child. They were twins. Now, the second one is a barama. So, does that reflect that the first one must have been viable? I mean, if the second one is viable, the first one must have been viable. Why did it die? Time came. That's the amount of time God allotted that baby. It's not that it wasn't a barayama. It's not that it wasn't viable. It was viable and it died. People die. They could be whatever age they they go. That's the amount of time they had. This child had an hour. Now there's a great proof. Then fell out of then the child that died was also and it was born after full term. The reason why it would not be a baram is maybe it was born after seven months but this it was clearly born after nine months because its brother it's uh you know before mitosis they were the they were one entity so obviously it was nine months because the other kid survived >> but the kid other the second kid did not survive 30 days yet so there's what's the proof that the second one is of Ben Cayama Ah maybe it means after 30 days you waited after 30 days. It's the drop that divides into two. Soadish [clears throat] on the carbon that was separated when she miscarried. What is this? He she can't be again that even according to that a person doesn't enter a suffic that the first child was a Ben the carbon is holy to beer in shearing and invoid Or maybe let's see what the Ga is maybe even in such a scenario where there's a proof of since a person doesn't enter a sufficim Oh, he fel maybe like this. Even though it was the same conception, maybe one droplet of zera was fertilized immediately and that one was viable. However, the other droplet maybe was not viable. It's possible for twins, one to have been viable and one not. I they were conceived at the same time. No, not not necessarily. One of them, the zera penetrated and fertilized and the other one it happened later and now it's not uh that the the child that died maybe was did not have its full term. So the shil is in the world of where you don't enter a suffic. So the gar just spells this out. If you're going to ask what do you mean is where so what would the be over here? Um, we say you're a nazer misophad. I guess you have to you couldn't benefit from it and you're not with it. Basically, we'll will be on both ends. But according to is it holy or not? Do we say well if the other one was viable this one must be viable or do we say no you're not entering the suffake and there's no proof based on the viability of the other one. What would the beam the sharing or to work it? Sigar says tu the shila remains. By the way we uh pointed out that in the dorm it didn't say the lion of tu but in obviously noer it does. Yeah. So Elahu is back for the Nazer even though we you know we were trying to say Nazer's also the shon but no is back in action here >> on B it has >> on Budg which >> yeah yeah >> you're not supposed to know we learning that Okay. Is like, you know, he's in and out. He's back and forth. He's on this page. Okay. Oh, this is I will be another one. I have a son and his friend heard and on me. What does he mean? And on me is going on your words. Meaning I'll also be a ner when you have a son. [laughter] I'm talking about your words. I'll also be another when you have a son. Or it means I'll also be another when I have a son. Is it going on the words or on the personis? [snorts] One second. What's this ga here? What's this be? I can't even see. It's so small. Ben I I don't I don't I don't know what the gear here is. I that B is what what is that B going on? Oh, that's from the Ms. Hash the very tiny letters at my says says okay I'm not I'm not sure what the mash is doing. Let's see back in the for a moment. Oh, the msaras hashas has a possible ga in the gammor and in tyus that switching the which we have for the word va. >> Does he mean when he has the ben or when his friend has the ben? >> Right. That's the shila. Is it bur? I'm going on your words. So your words are you're having the sun. So also I say when you have the sun or is it going on the body? It's going on me. Right now I'm just pointing out our gera in the garra is the the first shila is the misur hash has a gera that the first shila is when you say vani. It's not so common that you'll see a gera change in the msa hashas and not in the bach. Actually I don't know usually when the bach changes the ga usually go with it. I don't know what the rules are when the ms changes the gersa. I don't think that I don't think that you're uh uh you know you have to go with the msar sashas's gersa. Let's go with argamar's gersa. There's a shil when you say vai. Do I do I mean on your words or on me if you mean I'm going on me? Meaning when I have a son, what about if you say instead of is he saying me when I have a son? I love you like you love you. And then it's going on. So the is and if you're going to take the isu when I have the son. What does the mean? Does mean when I have the son or does it mean no when you have the son? Maybe even when you say it's going on me. I love you like you love you when you have a viable son. Okay, that is the end of so Tuesday night. Tuesday night. >> Okay. Cult of everyone good night. >> Good night. >> That concludes the dafa shabua for today. [laughter]