Daf Hashavua Iyun Sugya Yevamos 80 - Parameters of Hasroas Safeik & the Viability of an 8 Month Old

this Torah class is brought to you by Torah anytime.com okay good morning everyone sh we're continuing uh today is our um we're continuing in sh on today's share is dedicated by wer per who isas this past week she's in for family okay so I want to speak about the first one is t t we have if somebody ate between 12 and 18 and basically they did not grow hairs and then they had simis so in the simis um come do we say that okay retroactively this person was a SS already from the time of 12 because usually when some when a girl turns turns 12 or a boy turns 13 they are considered uh no longer a minor they're a godal the only thing is typically they have the two pubic hairs that show their a this person never had pubic hairs so we're not sure maybe they'll grow hairs late and then there'll be a late bloomer they mature late or maybe they'll turn out to be AIS so when they turn out to be a sis do we say they were AIS from the beginning or do we say no um until they actually display sign of being a they remain a so R says you become a says you're a at that time what the is the gar says if the kid if the person ate whether you get malus or not or whether um whether you get malus or not so Tois is bothered by the following question to is bothered okay if you become a does that mean you get malus so says yeah you'll get malus for the that you ate say question is why would you get malus what do we tell the guy don't eat the because you're going to be malus what do you mean you'll be malus you don't even know if I'm if I'm God or not so that's what it's called that we know you can't nobody uh you cannot uh incur a penalty a punishment unless you're warranted and you cannot be warned sa so therefore the question is um how could we give malus to this person but what did you warn him exactly you warned him don't eat from it because maybe you'll get malus that's by the I'll give you an example you know there's a Shila abortion is it murder is it not murder so the says abortion is murder so then why don't we give capital punishment cuz he can't warn someone don't don't perform an abortion maybe the child will not be a Ben kayama so it's not uh so even though it's and there's but we can't warn the person so here also what do you mean you become but it's say even though before at the time of the it's a suff maybe the kid will grow hairs and then he'll turn out to be hisis he'll turn out to be a late blooming say now when he grows it's retroactively it demonstrates that he was a god at the time of the okay so that's the uh that's T's question and the answer is after the fact that he become that he develops sis retroactively it's been determined that he was a god at the time of now it's impossible to understand what is talking about what do you mean the bottom line you can't warn someone definitively don't do this because you're going to get punished when he might not get punished when it turns out uh If he if he grows hairs then it'll turn out that he's not AIS oh but now he didn't grow hairs and he turned out to okay very nice but how does this make it not what do you mean but is anytime you can't War somebody definitively tus is mothered why if if you um let's say we have two people we don't know who the father is and we tell the kid don't hit both of them don't hit this one it might be your father don't hit this one it might be your father even though at the end of the day if he hits both of them he'll have hit his father so we say he's not why not that he HD his father so he says because even after he hit both of them he still doesn't know which one is the father you're right at the end of the day he ended up hitting both of them but but still he still doesn't know which one is the father but in this situation at the end of the day we know that he was a sis so if we know he was a sis we warned him don't eat this because a Jew cannot eat but still it's very unclear since he might end up being a Catan it's true he wasn't but he could have been so how could we be what exactly does mean so I want to share with you this appears in and something called at the end of the P has like a madur Basra sort of okay so look at this from it appears this is a in K even though at the time he violated we didn't know he was a we still give it's still called because the information that determines that he is the God is just so the that we say retroactively we've determined that he was a the only thing is in the Miss he says that from it's that's the question by the way if you want to go to the all you have to do is come with us to Turkey in a few weeks anyway or you could just eat turkey but that's the M's question the's question is there's a that seems to say that does not get you out of the issue of so listen to how Thea learns this here's the line they very [Music] important here you have he's explaining our that which there's no in the entity of the is in other words is iter for for a Jew to eat yes is it also for this person to eat so I would have said maybe not because it might be a coton so this is uh I think what he means what he means is no Jews allowed to eat a even a cannot eat it's just if a c eats we're not going to punish him but a has an iser of eating so there's no the is whether we could give the penalty but not regarding the prohibition it's a v warning we could say don't do this what do you mean don't do this but I might be a cut on okay you still can't do it we can't say definiely you'll be in other words in the case that I gave of the mrai by abortion we could tell the person we cannot tell the person don't do this say why not maybe the child won't be viable and if child's not viable there's no iser of killing a nonviable child I mean there's an iser but it's not that's not but here either way you look at it there's a of eating the suff is only on the application of the penalty we warned them for sure even though we don't know if he's capable of being punished that's not relevant to the warning we never found in any place in it's not necessary that the a have to testify that the one who they warned is liable for punishment will investigate this retroactively it turns out that the guy was AIS but the warning was a v warning so that's how the learns the reason why it's not is because either way there's an is the suffix only on the barim I think this is very difficult um I saw this question in the uh in this but they ask it as so what's to bother by then oh but why in the case if we say don't hit PL don't hit PL so why don't we say G over there what do you mean over there of course it's because we cannot warn him and say don't we cannot Warn and say this is definitely user cuz it might not be your father like what's to bothered by if the in to is that the reason why it's not is because either way it's the sh though is if you're and that's something will investigate later that's not applicable in the case of there it might not be so say well for sure you were doing an iser we could warn you don't hit this one and don't hit that one no we can't when before you hit the first one we can't say don't hit this one if you hit this one you're going to be doing an maybe not and then after the you hit the first one we can't warn you don't hit the second one so to's question seems to be a little difficult and though learns to the exact same way that the of to by the way it's not so P that a cuton is not not allowed to do the a it's just he's not a that's a major that's a big Shila whether is auton not a or he's just not the series it's like she number n or 11 something like that where there's a shil about the G of the prohibition of a Katan okay now I want to um I want to take you to one more inion on the da um we discussed this on chabas yesterday a see you were asking about this the gar says on three lines from the B that the S ofis an Isis or an eight-month old you can't act upon them until they're 20 years old soar says can an 8-month-old live and thear says well he could live if he if we have Simon that his hair is developed and his nails are developed but even so rabo is saying even with the Simon that he's a you still cannot um do Ana until he's 20 so rashi's father what exactly are we talking about what is it that we cannot determine until the kid is 20 so Rashi says the bottom if you have we cannot treat the kid as a viable kid just because he hasing even though his hair and nails are developed don't until he's 20 years old um so this is very uh interesting uh here you have a kid he was born after eight months with fully developed hair fully developed nails at 13 years old he he led his he didn't even come up with air for air at 14 years old he blew 101 at 15 he did hgba on a 500 lb sa for Tyra but we don't know he's a Ben Kay until he's turned 20 I mean that's that's how Rashi learns and the Rish have a major issue with Rashi um the Rish basically ask wait a second the kid's fighting in war he's on the front lines of the battle he's he's driving a tank he's jumping out of a um a jet but we don't know he's a Ben kayama until he's 20 look Rashi says this is the Raja P Rashi the kid's 19 and he's still let's say y she has a kid but the kid was born after eight months and the kid is 17 years old she can't marry luk you know why it not might not be a Kay so that means every Yama who gives birth to an after eight months has to wait 20 years until she's until she's free she married off her kid listen to this the kid has grandchildren the kid has children but the the woman is not free to marry why because the kid might not be a Ben kayama I guess if he if they're grandchildren then she could marry but let's say the kid uh I don't know the kid he wrestled he he did all kinds of activities you cannot determine he's he's 20 so the disagree with Rashi and they say this whole Su of doing AA is not to determine he's aay he's aay it's to determine he's a godal listen to this because he was born after eight he's weaker and therefore we say he's like a sis we cannot determine he's a god until 20 that's how the other R and learn the based an eight month a kid who is born after eight months of pregnancy until he is 20 820 for a kid who was born after eight months is like 13 for everybody else you hear this that means a kid born after 8 months is not a g until he's 20 ah he brought hairs he brought the two pubic hairs no it's a it's like a birth mark says wait a second this doesn't answer up all of our problems listen to this case a guy got married within 20 years or a woman who was born after8 months got married within 18 years and then she received kadushin from someone else she received kadush from someone else we should be maybe the first kadush wasn't good because it's kadana so I would say huh then the second K is not good either I don't really understand what he's asking anyone understand the question he's asking that comes out according to the Raj that if our is saying that if somebody was born after eight months not that he's not aay he a Ben kayama the guy's fighting in the the Army he's a Ben kayama it's that we can't establish him as a godal until he turns 20 like a Swiss so he says so then it comes out if he accepts kadan from someone else after he's already married no no no like this sorry I got the case the an 18-year-old guy marries a woman he was born after eight months and then she decides to get married to somebody else we should be for the second kadan I but she's married to the first guy we don't know maybe the first guy's a Kut and his kadan is not a kadan that's the question of the Raja meaning if this sugya is saying that if someone is born after eight months we cannot determine that they're a god until they turn age then if she got married to a guy like that and then she accepted kadan from someone else who should be for the second kadush also he asked a 19yearold even if he brings s he should not be able to do KH cuz he's a Katan so the Raj says only meant this if you know that he's eight months but in other words this will only apply someone who you know for certain was born after eight months but regular in other words because technically you could ask that this is this is going to throw a major curve ball into K cuz anytime a man marries a woman potentially we should be maybe it's not a good kushan because maybe he's a n i don't know why the Raj was even bringing in the because the here is not being AEL I thought we're dismissing Rashi that you're possibly a Nal the question is maybe you're a k oh that's what he's saying he's saying he disagrees with Rashi there's no we're not someone is a like we say later on and we assume that they're healthy and we assume they're Godless when they're 13 but says the Raj when the kid is born at8 months old that's where there's that the r hold that even though they there's a Nel they are an Nel for sure an Nel and rebi holds that no maybe they just hung out in the womb and will wait until 20 years old so that's Theus between Rashi and the Raja Rashi learns the that if someone is born after eight months maybe they're a Nell says no that that's not the the is maybe they a someone who's born after eight months we we have to be maybe they're cut on until they are of 20 years old okay that's the whole thing so we have a tus T says that according toas it's not a violation of why says because there's an that sh is only the suffix only on the and then regarding the sis that you have to be 20 Rashi says you have to be 20 to be extricated from the category of Nel and the Raja says to be extricated from the category of Katan okay okay everyone have a great day oh we um I think tonight I have to do p Al about 9:15 we'll send out a message okay have a good night have a good day exctly you've just experienced another Torah class brought to you by tor anytime.com