Daf Hashavua Iyun Sugya Yevamos 65 - Lying To Keep the Peace

this Torah class is brought to you by Torah anytime.com okay good morning everyone we're continuing in um today's subject is says person is allowed to deviate when it comes to peace like the says that the brother sent word to that dad before he died he uh he asked that you should forgive usov never said such a thing but for the sake of Peace you can make up a story said to how can I point David sh will kill me so God said tell him you're going to bring carban in the house in the Academy of R they peace is great even deviated because first we find that SAR laughed that her husband was too old and then when God confronted Abraham he said why did Sarah laugh and say she's too old so even God deviated for the sake of peace so the gar comes out you're allow to lie for sh so I want to share with you the following question how do you dance before the kala Rashi says what do you say before the kala B says Kal you basically you say it as it is what an ugly kala what a well may I guess you try to find something good to say she was beautiful when she was born uh and before she learned to speak she was wonderful but you can't exaggerate you have to say it as as it is that's the opinion of B and excuse me that's the opinion says you say a beautiful righteous kala even if it's not true here's the problem the maim on that explain that the only reason you're allowed to do it is because it's not outright but we can interpret your words as if uh what is called something that could have two meanings so for example the and the and they say you could explain that what he means is sheo she's ugly she's objectively hideous but she has good action that's what you mean says it means she's ugly but for some reason this this he thinks she's beautiful so me so it's not an outright lie the bottom line is all the explain that the reason for the het is because it's not an outright lie so in the of who rash of um in Florida he has the following question says a because says that's you're allow to lie for peace straight out so why do all the explain that the only reason you could you're allowed to say is because it could be interpreted to mean but which which implies you can't lie straight out but to imply that you could lie straight out and the gives the following answer saying is not really if they're getting married presumably they're getting along so what you're not doing anything to avoid over here you're just trying to be that you're not allowed to do with an overt lie in AR all the situations were to avoid to avoid Strife So to avoid Strife you could lie straight out that's how the want to answer the Ste again the Ste is for peace straight out and the seem to imply you could only say because it could be interpreted to have another meaning however I'd like to suggest that according to the AR here in the there's no ST to begin with cuz asks number one what het is there to lie the says what do you mean you could lie could you not put on could you wear sh could you eat no so why Li question number one question number two why does the these are the two questions of the and the and the answers that the really didn't lie why first of all they didn't do it themselves they sent a so maybe you could say you know it's like they didn't lie they sent somebody else to lie number two says if you look carefully in the words of the they're extra words because in says once they said why do they say so this is what they meant the intention of the was to say a language that could be understood in two ways their intention was lar dad commanded before his death saying saying what uh whatever we'll let you know a different time what he said and then they said so should be said to but that wasn't coming from their father so if you put the Comm in the right place they didn't lie overtly so therefore theat never lied straight out so according to the AR there's no stero between andus you're right in you're only allowed to say because it could be interpreted likewise in you're not to be you're allowed to be you can't say An Li you could say something that could have two meanings so there's no s in the first place now how will the AR understand how hasem told tell you're bringing carb that seems to be an outright lie will say like the mar the mar asks that wait a second what sh what said wasn't a lie because he did bring carbon and the mar says yeah but that was like a side thing that wasn't the main thing the main thing he was doing was appointing so therefore in fact and by the way the here on the page says the same idea that in fact sha Sho excuse me uh did bring carbon um did bring carban so that's the case so both in the example by the sh and by we do not see more than you're allowed to say something that could have two interpretations what will the say regarding it seems like said because SAR laughed and she said my husband is too old and God said why did SAR say that she's too old so again there uh two and BR and the that really s did say she's too old she said and she also said so God said why did Sarah laugh and say she's too old she did say that she happened also to say he's too old and God left that part out but the AR will not be going like the other that God lied so to speak in other words the other way to learn would be S said after I'm worn out Tak I'm smooth again but um but my master is um my master in other words the other way to read it was SAR never said she's too old she says you're right after I was worn out I became smooth again so I could have a child but my master is too old so basically according to the AR he would the garas that all these three scenarios are not outright lies they're white lies they're only saying a half a truth benam gold how are you sh welcome welcome very happy to see you I want to ask you something when the sh is over okay okay okay so next gar says rabbis are allow to lie about the following three things somebody says do you know this you're low to say no somebody asks um according to tus did you sleep in this bed you're allow to say no because maybe they'll find krye in the bed somebody said how did the host treat you you allow to say not great why because uh we're afraid we're afraid uh that maybe if you say the host was really gracious and generous he'll have a lot of people staying in his house the bottom line is we see in that Kamar this is another instance where you're all a lie you're allow a lie for humility you're all a lie foros somebody asked did you have you're allowed to lie and say no that's how Rashi learns and you're allow a lie to protect the potential host now theam is that if the says that you're allow lie that implies you're only allowed to lie for peace furthermore if the gar says God that implies peace is great that you're allowed to lie for the sake of Peace which implies you cannot lie for any other cause so if that's true if you're only allowed to lie for Shalom why you add a lie for these three cases in B so one answer would be says that why does gar say that you're all alive for three things what about dark sh so T says all of these three things are dark SH now it's not so clear what the shal is in Theos or in the humility by the way the Riff disagrees the Riff says that the reason why the did not say sh is because by shom it's a and by these three cases it's only but here's the here's the question question is this even if you want to say that the het in the is but wait a second the way we learned in the AR you're not allowed to lie overtly you could only say a half a truth and yeah in this it seems you're all to lie straight out someone said says do you know yamus you're allowed to say no even if you happen to know it what do you mean I thought you only allowed to say half the truth somebody said did you sleep in this bed you say no well I meant I didn't really sleep because I woke up five times I mean thear says you li a lie and according to the now according to theun who said you're L A Lie straight out to avoid fighting it's just you could only say a half a truth to be to add then it's still not so good because it would not seem that in these three cases where you're lying about to avoid fighting but even according to the way we learned again we learned the based on the AR the that you're not a lie overtly for the sake of Peace only a half a lie why in B you add a lie straight out you hear the question everyone hear the question I don't know I appreciate everybody putting their name up maybe you I don't know if any yeah you understand my question are you there no again there's a stero between yam and the way we learned the you can only lie if it's a half a lie and yet Inus it seems allow in in B you're allowed to lie straight out someone says do you know the M you could say no so how do we reconcile yamus where you can only say a quasi lie and B where you could lie straight out I want to tell you an amazing answer there's another here on the the says the forgot about another source that you're allowed to lie for the sake of peace and that is Abraham came to Sarah Sarah why' you laugh what did Sarah say I didn't Sarah said I didn't laugh so what do we see from there the AR says we see from there youat a li for peace here Abraham said straight out why do you laugh and Sarah said back I didn't so we see that you are allowed to lie for the sake of Peace that's the question AR comes AR and the AR answers that's not AR because arar is trying to say you're l a lie and take the initiative and say a lie even when not being confronted but from Sarah all you see is that when being confronted and you need to wiggle out of the situation you could lie for the sake of Peace but from the shtim we learn you're allow to initiate a lie for the sake of Peace So we cannot learn out from SAR that you are allowed to lie for the sake of Peace because we need a marar you're allowed to initiate a lie not wiggle out in a a situation that already was uh existed you hear that answer AR in other words s is not a s is merely wiggling out of a tough situation so of course you allow to lie in that case while according to this AR we have an answer to the between Y and why in yamus you're only allowed to say half a Li and in B you're allowed to say a whole ey Cuz AR just said we cannot learn out from SAR that you're allowed to lie for the sake of Peace cuz Sarah was wiggling out of a situation now when Sarah wiggled out of that situation she was lying straight out and we see then that if you're in a tough spot and someone puts you on the spot you could lie straight out so maybe that's why in B if somebody says did you learn the M now you're on the spot you're allowed to say no somebody says did you sleep in the bed you're on the spot you're under the gun you're allow to say no somebody says is this host good you're allowed to say no because when you're being mnel you're allowed to wiggle out of the situation furthermore when you're being mnel you're allowed to say an overt lie an obvious lie a clear lie so in B when you're being put on the spot you could lie straight out nobody would ever say you could go around saying I don't know this m or this host is not gracious or I didn't sleep on the bed only when somebody asks you and you're being mnel then you could say a complete lie that's how we would answer the between B and yam in you're being misel in yamus you're taking the initiative now just to explain what would the difference be between being under pressure or taking the initiative why would why would it be more lenient to be able to lie when you're under the gun I believe as follows the the is of sh is different than other it doesn't say not to do it it says stay away from it so therefore you definitely can't take the initiative because you're now you're not staying away from it you're running after it but if it came if sheer came running after you where someone put you on the spot and now you're between a rock and a hard place then maybe it's more lenient I think also that when um when you're when you're put on the spot it's harder to think of something which might be like a white line so if you're have if you're coming up with something on your own it's easier to come up with something which is maybe a little bit of the truth not completely the truth but if somebody justs you don't have enough time to think way um so that okay I hear I hear what he's saying but then let's say somebody asks you in a text so you have a few minutes to think about it so then it would be different right that then it would come out it depends on the situation in other words we're giving a blanket a blanket uh difference between initiation and being mnel okay let me tell you another interesting thing there's a who brings that let's say you're walking down the street and a guy pulls up and he says you need a ride and you're going to the right and he says I need a ride but are you going in my direction now you're not but you want to do a but you know he's not going to let you take um he's not going to let you take him unless you say you're going in that direction are you allowed to lie and say yeah I'm going in that direction or let's say somebody says did you hear what the M says on this and you know it but you want to make the guy feel good and say no I don't know you're allow a lie so the safer be him asks according to him that you're only allowed to lie overtly to avoid but not to be why you li to lie but we could ask the same question on ourselves because the way we've set up the sugya we have three garas we have yamus we have we have from yamus we said you can only say a white lie and the reason is because that's all the the Torah allows you to do and to and you can only say a white lie I you lie straight out the way we set it up is you're under the gun somebody asked you so why is the like why does that you allow to say a straight up lie so it seems like would set up the three garas as follows thear we said has two ways to learn you could learn like the that s in fact said she's also too old and God left out and she said I'm too old and ab's too old and God just left out that she said Abram's too old or you could learn Hashem lied straight out SAR never said she's too old she said I was too old but now I'm young again so for me it's not a problem the problem is with him so according to to that you're allow a lie straight out for the sake of peace and then according to that in B it's very good you're allowed to lie straight out for the sake of Peace so why inis are you not allowed to lie for the sake of Peace straight out why do the say is only permitted because it's you could interpreted as so I want to say the following I think this is uh Ms more correctly it's Ms you ready for this has the following question B says you li and praise the the kala why does B say you're not allow a Li and praise the kala would say you're not a lie would argue on the would B argue on the that there are three things that rabbis lie about mean we know there's a principle in why does say you're not allowed to say you have to say right at the they would say how do you say ugly in Hebrew right according to B that would have been some my goodness but according to B you know how to say why not aren you all alive for the sake of Peace listen to says you all alive for the sake of peace and if somebody asks you do you know you allow to say no and to avoid fight you could lie but now the Shila is the are looking to be an official to say at every a part of like it's like a the rabbis would never formulate a that's that's the agrees to agrees to three things the could lie about but would say the would never be a shine that is so I would say as follows B also agrees to that but to an extent really in general maybe B you a lie straight out for the sake of Peace but the would never enact by every to say a straight out lie and therefore they only enacted to say like a white lie that could be interpreted or or I thought of another one possibility and that is the opposite of the AR the AR says that when a person is being confronted there's more of a head to say something which is sh so we could say on the flip side the more one is initiating in a situation where there's no necessity to say anything that is much more severe namely in again you're just wiggling out of the pressure under in there's a difficult situation you're in the brothers are worried about yep's animosity is worried about sha killing him so under those circumstances you could lie straight out but when you go to a if the kala is ugly no you don't have to say anything who asks you to say anything did anybody solicit your opinion as to how the kala looks so say it's a it's I don't know you're you know you're so lucky to get married such a wonderful M what a wonderful nobody ask you to comment on how the looks so that's the opposite of wiggling out a tough situation don't comment nobody asks you oh you're going out of your way to initiate a a comment you better make sure according to sh you can't say anything which is and according to B you cannot say over okay these are some of the here in the based on two pieces in the Aran and had to reconcile it with the gamar in cuis and the gamar in B okay wishing everyone an amazing day andem tomorrow night we begin the new perak and you're welcome to uh please join us tomorrow night 9:15 wishing everyone have a great day