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Rabbi Benzion Scheinfeld on Bondi Beach and the Sydney Jewish Community
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Nachum Segal hosted "The Ski Rabbi," Rabbi Benzion Sheinfeld, Director of Camp Kanfei Nesharim, live at JM in the AM to discuss Bondi Beach and the Sydney Jewish community in the aftermath of the terror attack on Sunday evening, Chanukah.
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Auto-generated transcript. Not time-synced to the video.
So our good friend I have been Sion
Shinfeld who of course has been on this
show a million times on different topics
uh most often about camp that he's been
running for the last 30 plus years and
KE each and every summer brings him to a
variety of places including Australia
and yesterday when we spoke we said it
would be a good idea to get his
perspective because obviously we've
never been there but he's been there
many many times and uh can certainly
relate to the area geographically and to
the community in terms of what they're
going through and here he is. Ryan
Seinfeld, a pleasure to welcome you back
to JM in the AM.
>> Good morning. Always a pleasure to be
here, but uh under these circumstances.
>> So, you were first introduced to the
Jewish community in Australia back in
1994. That was the first trip you took
there.
>> No, actually the first trip I took to
Australia was because of Yeshua
University Yeshiva University's
Counterpoint program.
>> Wow. We have Rab Michael Friedman in the
office who actually was I was on his
team the first year that was in 1987 I
think.
>> Was that Sydney or Melbourne?
>> So that was Melbourne and um that really
opened my eyes to a a whole new world
and we'll talk about the contrast but
when when I got there
>> you think of Australia when when you're
just living in America Australia is like
the most far right a different planet
and in those days there was no internet
and there was no texting. Uh so when you
got there you actually felt like wow
this is like the through the twilight
zone to a different Jewish community on
a different planet
>> isolated. Right.
>> Right. Different Rabanam different
challenges different pisa. I mean
>> even even being in 90° weather.
>> Exactly. That was I was just going to
mention
>> ending early you know.
>> Right. Exactly. Which is one of the
reasons why K still goes to Australia to
end tishabove at 507.
We always talk about that this religion
was not geared toward the western toward
the southern hemisphere, right? You have
to admit and certainly not to that part
of the world. But anyway, yeah, go
ahead. I'm sorry.
>> So I So just when when you get when we
got to Australia and what struck me was
uh this Jews who made a life such a
beautiful life so far away in the you
know what we consider at least in the
middle of nowhere. And um just a few
things that that struck me then.
>> Well, just to note that you then
consistently grew to know it even more
during the 80s, the '9s, obviously the
last 25 years, etc., etc.
>> Right. I went twice with Counterpoint.
Once Rab Fred was my group leader and
once I was a group leader and
counterpoint was a very formative
program for so many people the careers
even
>> even I you know the first Shira which uh
comes up in a few weeks
some of the motivation to start that was
the what I shared with kids in
Australia. So we worked with a school
there called Mount Scopus. Mount Scopus
at the time was the largest Jewish
school in the world
>> in what city?
>> In Melbourne,
>> right? And I was introduced to a new
term. You know, I grew up in far away. I
was like, you know, just a regular. We
didn't think so much about thinking
about our Jewism. We just did our
Judaism. But we I got there and suddenly
there was a new term called Jewish
identity.
>> Right.
>> I never heard that.
>> People were culturally Jewish. The
school they didn't go to was observant.
That type of thing.
>> Right. Exactly. Right. And what I
learned about the Melbourne Jewish
community, it was such a powerful Jewish
identity. Like in America, we had, you
know, 60 70% intermarriage. in in
Australia it's very small.
>> And when did you get to Sydney? At what
time do you start getting getting
familiar with the Sydney Jewish
community?
>> Right. So
>> I went there during my count point years
once or twice with Hillbecker but then
um through Ken Nisharam we spend time
both in Melbourne. First one shop is in
Melbourne one shops in Sydney. We're in
New Zealand where there's no Jews and
suddenly I always tell the kids after
two weeks of no Jews suddenly we're
going to you're not going to believe how
special it's going to be just to see a
Jew walking in the street and we go to
Melbourne and we go to Sydney and I went
to them share a little bit.
>> Yeah, sure.
>> Um just over the couple of last couple
of days people don't really even get
understand Bond Beach. What's Bond
Beach? Is it a beach? Is it people
>> Well, not just that. We also are curious
like how does it relate to the central
Jewish community? Like is it right
there? Is it an important part of it? Is
it, you know, Burough Park to Flatbush?
Like we're trying to figure out exactly,
you know, what it is in relation to what
we're familiar with,
>> right? So Melbourne is like the
strongest Jewish community, I would say,
if I could measure it in terms of
restaurants, which of course is always
good barometer for,
>> of course, it's the only barometer.
>> Uh, so Melbourne has multiple
restaurants, you know, maybe five to 10,
you know, eating establishments, and
Sydney really has only one or two.
>> Um, but there's a strong community in
Melbourne, very strong. Then there's
also another strong community in Sydney,
but not I would say as strong. Um what
you what you get to learn very soon is
when you get to Australia is that where
here you might go to a town and there's
a Kabad house,
>> right?
>> Um I guess the Reb the sent Rabbi Groner
over there and basically the default of
Jews in Australia is connected to Kabad
knows it might be 25 kabads and might be
one MRI house you know in the community.
So Melbourne is very powerful unified.
>> So even those who are not quote unquote
part of the Kabad community are very
familiar with the Kabad leadership.
Rabbi Schlanganger must have been a
leader for all. I mean we're hearing
about it, but you're describing it that
everyone knew him. Everyone, you know,
had a perspective about how important he
was to the community,
>> right? You know, the Kabad, it wasn't
like there was a Kabad house in Sydney.
Everybody in Australia is Kabad just
about. And uh so Melbourne is the
strongest Jewish community, but Sydney
the the Jews there are centered in
Bondai Beach. And I just want to tell
you like Bondi Beach, what a
unbelievably beautiful place it is. It's
not like a beach town. It's a Jewish
community that's
>> residential area.
>> Residential. It's a culde-sac beach. I
always tell my campers, you're about to
see the most beautiful inner city beach
in the world. And
there must be 20 shooles there. Like 18
of them Kabad in the in the that area.
Oh, yeah. At least at least 20 shooles.
Yeah.
>> And that would be where the kosher
restaurant is. I mean,
>> yeah, that's where the kosher restaurant
is. It's Some are close to the beach.
Some are maybe like a 10-minute walk
from the beach. But
>> so when you
>> and if I'm Jewish and live there, I'm
within walking distance of all of this.
That's
>> You're right. You're in walking I mean
Yes. You're walking distance of the
beach. And like I said, from the beach
you would, there used to be a cafe
called Katsy's um Glicks, I'm sorry,
Glicks Cafe. Glicks is like this kosher
bakery chain in Australia makes some
amazing kalas. They And
>> where's the trip?
>> Yes. And you know, just like maybe a
three-minute walk from the beach to
Glicks. But again, it's not a beach that
people come to for vacation. It's where
But it's funny you say that, right? But
Sion Shinfeld is here. He's been to
Australia a million times and I'm almost
accurate with that number. Uh because
the world as it's telling this story
about what happened there on Sunday
night is painting a picture as if it's a
big tourist attraction and everyone
knows about it and it's a place where
celebrities at times go to relax and you
know be isolated as you indicated. So it
did seem to me like that as much of it
of it as it's a community as you
describe that there is a that it's well
known around the world in certain
circles. Well, somehow the Jews decide
to settle in the most amazing piece of
real estate on earth, you know, which is
>> and it does attract people. People do
vacation there.
>> People I mean, people go there maybe to
use the beach, but it's not,
>> you know, it's I wouldn't say it's like
a vacation area. There's a couple hotels
on the beach front, but overall it's
really just
>> the locals are predominantly the ones
using it.
>> Yeah. Right. And our camp goes there and
of Shabasite. We take this walk. It's
called the Bondai Beach Walk, which is
this beautiful walk around the rocks and
the around that beach. And I I just tell
the kids, you know, how beautiful and
lucky we are.
>> Does that include the infamous bridge
that we keep seeing?
>> Yeah. So, the bridge is about a
20-minute uh car ride down into the
central business district. So, the
Bondai is a suburb of the main city of
Sydney.
>> And and if you were told before Sunday
that there's a Kabad celebration on the
beach, would you have realized what the
location was of that party? Like would
you have been able to envision exactly
where it would be?
>> Yeah. The only thing I can compare it to
in New York is like Central Park.
>> Okay. But Central Park
>> if someone says it and they're familiar
with it, they know exactly what
>> but imagine but imagine Central Park is
really just one beautiful green area.
>> Or if someone would say the reservoir
area of Central Park, the whole world
knows what that means.
>> Right. Exactly. Right. And if it's a
Kabad celebration, it's
>> so when you first heard the news, your
first reaction is, you know, I I've just
been there. I just like
>> Right. Yeah. Even though just to define
that a little bit more, walking in
Sydney, I always tell also my campers
that Sydney is the most beautiful modern
city in the world. It's just amazing.
It's an amazing city. Really,
>> nothing around here compares to it.
>> No, nothing compares. Really, really
nothing compares. We have beautiful
skylines every once in a while, but
walking around Sydney, it's there's a
there's like an uplifting almost like La
Havil. You go to Yusha, you feel like
this on a beautiful day in you, you feel
Sydney almost every day, you just feel
this uplifting, shining beauty. It's um
you know, the human structures that they
built on the Sydney harbor, including
the bridge and the opera house, really
uplift you in some way. And the Jewish
community then is located in the most
beautiful inner city beach. So of course
the tragedy is felt what happened in the
city is felt by everybody. But I would
say for our confing
on Sydney beach until on Bondi Beach
until
>> until a few days ago was just the most
relaxing openhearted. I always said, you
know, if I had the funds, I would buy a
condo overlooking the beach in Davin
Cabala Shabas overlooking that beach.
And that's I told my campers, you guys,
you know, I have some wealthy campers
that come every once in a while. I say,
if you have guys want to buy me just a
present, that condo would be fine, you
know, overlooking that beach. And to
think now of going back to that
beautiful beach that people every
morning just walk on and have a coffee
and to think of it almost like uh you
know like a holocaust like
>> a terror scene.
>> A terror scene where we're going to have
a memorial. I'm sure the is going to
build a memorial there. It's just
life-changing. And I know that this is
nothing in in terms of the big picture,
but as we watch all of this, we're
curious how far is that bridge where
these terrorists were shooting to the
area that we're talking about.
>> Right. So our our camp stays in a hostel
right across the street. Literally
across from that bridge. Yeah. From that
>> of the bridge.
>> From the bridge. That bridge is simply
>> You could have been the one taking that
video. God forbid.
>> Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely.
>> And that's how far from where the
thousand people were.
>> So that it's
>> two-minute walk, a five-minute walk. No,
like a 30-yard work. Yeah, that bridge
is simply the way to get from the
>> literally perched a top there
overlooking a massive crowd that's right
underneath them.
>> Yes. In fact, I still ask myself the
miracle or just somehow
>> not more people
>> not more people were killed. It's hard
to imagine because they're sitting right
there on that bridge. In fact, I wrote a
um a message uh to my campers the
following message. Um,
um, just
so the rest of his dear cameras, I am
sure you all know that we walked over
the bridge the shooters were on as we
walked on the beautiful Bandai beach in
Bandai. We all have a special
responsibility to internalize all that
went on today forever. As we are some of
just a small number of USA Jews who
truly know the Bondi community and that
special area, I hope we are able to
cherish the victim's memories and make
sure that it somehow makes us better and
more concerned Jews so that we grow from
their sacrifice.
>> Wow. Right. Ben Shinfeld's here through
his work with Kab Confe and other
avenues. He's been very familiar and
continues to be very familiar with the
Australian Jewish community and
specifically Sydney Sydney and Bondi
Beach as we're discussing this morning
and um of all of this and there's so
much to obviously unpack with this whole
terrible attack. But but you just you
just revealed something to us that I
think is so impactful and that is how
close these monsters were to a thousand
Jews or whatever the number was. and
they went ahead and just started
randomly shooting at them and and
unfortunately obviously that's why we
have so many victims and people in the
hospital but just to comprehend that
especially for an area you're familiar
with is just unfathomable
>> right yeah I didn't realize that that it
wasn't clear that yeah that bridge is
just a few
>> a few yards
>> I kept thinking like it's you know far
off but the the weapons gave them an
opportunity to reach these people etc.
No, no, just just a few feet away. Ah.
>> Um. All right. So, the um I assume
you've been in contact with actual
residents. I have to assume because you
are dealing with them every summer,
right? I mean,
>> yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just
>> I mean, is it all just about, you know,
texting about shock and and mourning and
funerals and and not sleeping and trying
to get through all of this?
>> Yeah. It's um I mean I spoke to someone
who lives right across the street from
the beach and they they said they were
walking there just a few minutes before
>> you know even Rab Rabbi Olman Rabbi
Schlanganger is Rabbi Omen's son-in-law
Rab Schlanger I happen to teach teach
now in Tanif Kabad Academy and Rabbi
Schlonger's cousin Rabbi Lewis is the
first cousin to Rabbi Lewis but Rabbi
Omen is the head of the Sydney Bezdon
and we ate by his shel a number of times
with him Friday night so yeah everyone's
very connected there it It's everybody.
We know Rabbi Schlonger's brother very
well who's now in Jerusalem sitting
Shiva with his mother,
>> right?
>> So crazy the whole thing.
>> On the way here I was thinking there was
there's a almost the irony. There's a
very special Jew who was Nifter. His
name was Norman Rosenbal. I don't know
if you ever
>> Sure. The Crown Heights attack.
>> Right. Right. So So
>> Norman was the uncle's brother.
>> Right. Norman's uncle's brother. And I
remember you know he would come to
America.
>> Yeah. I don't know how he did it. He was
back and forth a million times
>> 25 times. He he probably changed the
mayoral election his ad advocacy. Right.
>> So, I was just thinking that Australia
always felt for us like the safest
place. When I went to Australia, it was
like this idealic Jewish community. The
Jews were connected. Even the Jews that
weren't connected were connected
>> and it was just a safe place to be. And,
you know, Norman's brother, Yank,
was killed here in America, but
Australia was safe, you know. But now,
>> just just the opposite, you know.
>> Well, sort of. Yes. There was a stabbing
in Crown Heights last night. So, you
know,
>> crazy. Um, what about the general
community? Does the Jewish community of
Sydney Fondai Beach get along with their
neighbors and, you know, regular people
who are not Jewish there? Like, is it is
it a is it a cohesive group over there?
Because we keep getting this picture
from the media that, you know,
everyone's so friendly and nice and, you
know, live well together. Is that the
impression you had?
>> It certainly was the impression. I look
I've been going to Australia for 33
years.
>> It's the overwhelming impression I've
had
>> and dealing with vendors who are Jewish
and not Jewish.
>> Just wonder wonderful people.
Australians in general are very
openhearted and uh I loved it. I mean
New Zealand one of the reasons why I
went back to New Zealand and New Zealand
Australia share a type of culture is
because of how openhearted and nice the
people were. And you know I'm a big
humanist. I like seeing
>> the you know the nicer. But I I will
tell you one incident. This summer I was
standing on right by that bridge if I
tell you right by that bus was parked.
There's a bus but right by that bridge
I'm outside my bus. Of course I'm
wearing my yamaga and a Middle Eastern
>> gentleman
>> gentleman walks by and says are you
Jewish? I said yes. I can't say
everything he said on air but he said I
hate
bleeping Jews.
>> Fill in the blank. Right.
>> Yeah. Yeah. That's what he said to me
straight. And that was the first time in
my life that I, you know, felt like this
visceral hatred for Jews.
>> Did he just move on after that?
>> Yeah, he just I mean I'm a big guy. I'm
a big guy. He moved on.
>> He saw you weren't backing down.
>> Um but no, it was it was scary actually
to be honest. And
>> what a commentary.
A place that you regard as one of the
safest and one of the most serene place
on and it's all infiltrated there as
well. Right.
>> Every the whole world is now you know.
>> Right. Right. I'm sure there are a lot
of like the the hero kungu
>> there are a lot of good people a lot of
good of all religions and of all
>> 100%
>> but uh it is the fact that Australia
this idealic place both in my heart and
for many people that Bondai beach which
is probably the most idealic place in
Australia in terms of
>> do you know that flower salesman they he
operates right near the bridge you know
>> have you ever run across him or not
>> he was a
>> they said he was a flower salesman near
the bridge I did not
>> that's what I read
>> okay
>> and he saw what was going on. And
instead of, you know, looking for safety
somewhere, the guy used every ounce of
energy in his body to take down this
terrorist, which was unbelievable. I
mean, you saw it, so you know what I'm
talking about.
>> Um, does this at all, I forget about,
you know, your business operation. We
could discuss, you know, KE and getting
people to come another time, but does
this affect what's going to be happening
in June and July for you? Like, is this
or that hasn't even entered your mind?
Um, you know, it's hard to make
decisions,
you know, like unfortunately, you know,
>> but do you think about it?
>> Um, I do think about it that even the
last couple years we've been a little
more cautious in terms of where we've
gone and when we've gone to different
places overall, it's still, you know,
the Jewish community in Australia is
still very established and still
beautiful place to visit. So,
>> um, and again, the contrast from New
Zealand where there are kimat no Jews
and coming to Australia and seeing Jews
is always so special to us. And the I is
Sydney your base when you go skiing and
stuff or that's a different area of
Australia.
>> Actually the the ski mountains are
between Melbourne and Sydney. So we
spend one Shabas in Melbourne.
>> Um and then we then Right. A few days
skiing and
>> that's the general mitzio itinerary.
Right. Shabas. A week skiing and then
another Shabas.
>> Yes. Exactly. And the best is if you
could ski Arab Shabas and then bring
that.
>> Right. You've talked to us about that.
>> I love that. I still love that. Even
this Friday I may be going to Hunter
Mountain. If you ski Araf Shabas or by
Shinfeld, how much time does one need to
leave in order to properly prepare for
Shabas and have your candle lighting at
the appropriate time? How how much what
type of what type of uh schedule would
you make for yourself in that situation?
>> Again, you have to have the chunk
cooking from Thursday night, of course,
and the flunking. But, uh, overall, you
know, if you go to Hunter Mountain,
let's say this Friday, if you go to
Hunter Mountain,
>> is there still a presence there? Is
there a minion or not? I mean on Kaneka
every day in Hunter mound there's
usually minions. Seriously? Yeah. And of
course you have the Malora Hotel. I
didn't realize that. I for some reason I
thought maybe because you stopped going
there you have NA. I thought the
community had disbanded. I don't know.
>> Yeah. No but now you have that kosher
hotel there. Wow. Very nice. And there's
Yeah. A couple minan.
>> So this weekend you'll be up there.
>> Um could be. Yeah it should be. There's
a lot of Jews that go up to Hunter
Kaneka. So if you want to let's say if
you want to go skiing
>> and let's say candle lighting is 410.
Okay. Well you and you also have to
light Kaneka candles before Shabas
candles. Right. So let's say you want to
light let's say you would do the single
approach and light kanak candles at
3:50. Okay. Let's say you would do that.
Then how what time would you have to get
off the slopes in your opinion? And if
you say 3:45 I'm going to slap you.
>> Now you could you could leave Hunter at
12:30. You know as you get to 8:30 12:30
and Arab Shabas and there's usually no
lines, no lift lines.
>> So you could really have a great day of
you know.
>> So even at noon Friday you could get
that Arab Shabas feeling.
>> Yeah. There's nothing like it. The
skiing, you know, skiing is a gift uh
Hashem gave to the world. You feel
nature, you feel the beauty of of of the
world.
>> Were there any other gifts that he gave
to the world or would that be the
exclusive one? I've been hearing about
this Shabas thing being a big gift that
God gave to the world. Where does that
rank?
>> That's what we should do one day. Rabbi
Mod Seinfeld's top 10 gifts that God
gave to the world. Exactly. That'd be an
amazing segment,
>> right? The red onion might be in there.
>> Correct. How how would it not? How did
that Would that be the only vegetable in
there? That be the only vegetable make
the list.
>> Pomelo a vegetable. I forget if you know
I'm not sure exactly what the category
is.
>> But I've stumbled. By the way, this
could be a book. I am telling you if we
did a segment and those who've heard our
conversations before understand why this
is such a good idea. You know how deep
you are and how you think and how you
experience life. I mean we got the idea
I think from this conversation as well.
But a top 10 right Seinfeld's top 10
gifts that Hakadesh Baraku gave to the
world. I I'd have to start thinking if
Shabas will make the list. I got to
start thinking about Shabas.
>> It makes the list automatically no
matter what. Shabas
>> if we did a bracket if we did a like an
NCAA bracket would would Shabas be one
of the number one seeds. It would always
think like right before the you know
this the last day six right before ski
threw in the pomelo and the red onion. I
always think
>> and not the skiing that was a separate
thing.
>> No, skiing was a whole that was thought
out that was thought out
>> a part in and of itself. Right.
>> Do we have any biblical figures that
like the red onion? Have you ever come
across? Is there anybody in Tanakh that
felt like you do?
>> I think there's one she did that theadas
was the red onion.
>> There you go.
>> No, but honestly, pomelos are very
special. And
>> and and there's nothing in the fruit
world that comes close to it. You're
saying? In other words, if you were on a
desert island and you were had a choice
of one fruit, it's under a question that
would be the one.
>> It would be a pomelo from Thailand, to
be honest.
>> Has to be that.
>> Yeah.
>> How many times you been to Thailand?
>> No, just once. But uh
>> was that good?
>> Yeah. So like that Araf Shabas feeling
of skiing that that opening up a pomelo
where you see just feel the beauty of
brias ol in that fruit like so so
compact. Yeah. Those are
>> Do you agree because you've been to
Israel known for its fruits and
vegetables and obviously other parts of
the world. Do you agree that in New York
and New Jersey we just don't have high
quality fruits and vegetables or?
>> Yeah. Israel fruits do taste
>> they completely out.
>> Yeah they sparkle.
>> Yeah
>> they do. But just to come back to B. So
one of those moments besides the fruits
and all that walking on Bondai Beach
would have been one of those moments of
glory, you know, in the in the world and
that's changed forever. Yeah.
>> Unbelievable. Have you ever been there
this time of year?
>> No, I've never I've only
>> It's funny, you know, everyone's in
shorts at the Kanuka celebration. I'm
like I'm like, "Wow, this is so strange
that the lighting kic
>> but in Sydney even in the winter it's
it's could be 70 80 degrees." Like
that's why I tell the kids we're in New
Zealand. We're freezing. We're going to
Melbourne. It's going to be fall. People
ask me, "What's how do I pack for camp?"
I say, "Well, here goes this." New
Zealand is winter, Melbourne is fall,
Sydney is spring, and Hawaii is summer.
So, that's how you pack.
>> So, if you see anybody in the airport
with four different types of uh of
outerw wear, they're probably on the
Confe trip, right?
>> That's crazy. Anyway, Hashem, um those
of you out there who um What is the
website for Confe?
>> Uh yeah, confe.com. confe.com for
information about the camp
>> and uh we appreciate you coming by or
Shinfeld can only imagine what the
Sydney community is going through. Yeah,
you wanted to add
>> Yeah, just just in just we also have a
girls camp boss conf that goes to
>> Peru, Costa Rica.
>> What's the weather there in July?
>> Um Peru is actually you know it's sort
of near the equator but it's a little
winintry. We got to Machu Picchu and uh
just you know even there driving you see
on the walls of of this town
you know 11 hours out of Lima you see
Palestinian graffiti and all that. So
wherever you go in the world you have to
be I mean wherever you go to
>> they they did in fact globalize the
inifatada didn't they
>> they did and and yet there are still
such special people there and you know
the kabads and kusco and you know amisol
spreads light but there is a lot of
light that needs to be spread.
>> Oh 100%.
I'm glad we put this together at the
last minute.
>> Yes, thank you.
>> Rabbon Shinfeld, everybody, the skiing
rabbi and in this context, somebody
who's been to Australia many, many, many
times and is very familiar with the
community that's suffering right now. We
have our brothers and sisters in
Australia in mind, of course, during
this very, very challenging week. More
coming up. You're listening to a Kanuka
edition Wednesday at JM in the A.M.