Rabbi Aaron Rakeffet on YU and Chasidus: Is it a good thing? Interviewed by Rabbi Chaim Dalfin

okay shom I'm interviewing here who was talid mik a proy student of harav Sal and today is at the in we've had the several occasions to uh to speak together so today I'd like to focus on the idea of Yesa University Yu and the whole idea ofus at Yu um the its importance um is there any um reluctance on behalf of some of the administration if there is why um since rabbi weim Burger left when Co started he um it has not resumed as far as I know so I wanted to talk to you a little bit about that and I recall when you told me must have been you know probably about 10 years ago that you you you it was uh I don't know if it was your original idea but you were very much behind it I don't know if you were s satisfied the way it was done so I wanted to hear about this from you so please okay first of all I just want to put a disclaimer in that you have to understand I've lived in y 54 years now and although I'm play a very big role in having brought muu to Israel I think you know I published my seventh book the whole story how I got this I was the mock of the psh in getting this campus from Mr Gis for Yu it was practically lost it was practically in the hands of David jelen's Teachers College and uh you can read uh in washing my volume called Washington published by the OU the words I said to Mr Gris and in the lobby of the King David Hotel a poor kid from the Bronx yours truly and a multi-billionaire from Poland America Mr grus fell we fell on each other's shoulders and cried and the rest of history so I'm not totally up to date with what goes on in Washington Heights but I can tell you the following when I grew up in Wu it was definitely an anti Hasidic feeling the Riva were outside of one exception Rabbi gerstenfeld who was Hungarian from theam part of Hungary all the Riva with its Vin and I remember I U kabad was first getting Stu started in getting a lot of publicity and it must be about 54 I would say 53 54 I uh wanted to spend the Shabbat and see what it's all about and kabat arranged I spent the Shabbat in kabad which influences me until today in my thinking I write about this in Washington too but let me repeat it that I asked my host and I don't recall his name I don't even know if I knew his name I asked my host uh you're all black here you look to me like uh a good is what's the difference between you and a good and he said to me I'll tell you the difference if mrai built 50 mik a would pel them if a built 50 mik m would them if and each the re would send the to both of them and uh that story left a tremendous impact on my thinking my teaching I've I think I've conveyed it over the years to at least more than 100,000 students all over the world um give you an example what I mean anti in h High School in MTA Manhattan Medical Academy there was a BTA and an MTA Brooklyn and Manhattan I of course was in Manhattan and though we wanted a sheer in Tanya number of us got together and someone I think his name was Rabbi shimo came from 770 and gave us a weekly Shear well Rabbi tendler found out r d and he abolished the shear wouldn't have it he was then had a lot of power beyond the class from he was assistant Dean and uh he abolished it now that that was the atmosphere those were the feelings um time has moved on and I can tell you another story uh you see the messianics have done harm to the image ofat and this is part of life uh I can tell you I've heard t quote the r and speak about the r you might think he was a faculty member of Torah the love was so distant from Tor like the North Pole is from the South Pole Etc uh messianism you know people criticize I don't want to go into detail and you all familiar with Professor David Berger's book and elements of Christianity at times it's frightening so uh about 20 years ago in the Bas medish downstairs right here in chis there were two visiting rash Yesa very prominent rash Yesa from Yu and they were arguing with me about kabad and one of them said to me I quote every L katnik is a messian and these are responsible people uh the other person said to me how can you have a noble attitude towards and I told him well the fought that battle 200 years ago I think we've lost the battle although many cidic sex are now M man and we had a battle and students knew about it and they they were going back to America and going to make the battle public uh about a month later I got a message that all is quiet so my students complimented me and said Reby you uh influen them I said I found out the real story The OU said to these rabbis if you're going to start questioning kabad we got to close the OU down and the meaning of this comment is very simple that a good deal Kat can go when no one else will go and has we need people in China in Thailand I don't have to tell you what's going on and I said if you're going to cause issues like this we'll have to close the OU down so the fight receded but I think what's happened and I think the Rev said it all I was very fortunate to grow up and to be close to my rebi Moria rebi I the many years I sat in front of him and next day I'm actually if you know the picture of the class of 1960 you see where I sat and um over and then afterwards we were in correspondence and whenever I was in America I would go to see my rebi we had a very warm and I would say a fruitful relationship with a lot of pollenization and the r grew up in Kasich those were his formative years I trust you familiar with my two volumes on the and um there was Kad there was the influence and yeah we had a if I can quote the with a famous story of the but the basic line is when began there were great fears the go was right they were going to certain extremes you're familiar with and because the going oppos them it kept them in line and 200 years later you look at the Holocaust the blood makes s all our differences mellow the same thing has happened in Israel um this country has been built block by Block rock by Rock Brick by Brick uh I mean it's an amazing story Jews came in refugees from all the Arab countries uh displaced persons survivors broken in spirit broken in health and a miracle happened here that uh we put together a beautiful beautiful country a democracy a Jewish democracy that's the Declaration of Independence and you know that the state reflects its citizenship I have dreams that all of 770 would come in Aliah and all of why you would come in Aliah and all of Lakewood would come in alah and why would this be a ptic environment what a country it's a democracy your ballot is your bullet so in Israel too there has been tension I need to go into detail with the 1980s and Rabbi Shak and kabad and then G gets involved on the side of kabad and there has been tension but over the years it has been amiliar and everyone sees right now what's going on we're fighting a war for survival I I I'll even say not just the state of Israel it's Jewish survival I mean I don't want to repeat what you know about America and the IV colleges and and a Jewish lady who's the president of MIT and now you can guess the Jews and killed the Jews and the whole world will stand by and applaud L ALU so there's been a a merging a synthesis you see the pictures on the battlefield KS all over the place some of them are soldiers I just got a picture of a tank down in aai my one of my Grands I have many grandsons at the front lines many in aam many in Lebanon and uh she's got a picture of a tank with a messiah flag on it I said all right I would generally be bothered by the Messiah flag but if it's a tank shooting and the Messiah flag helps RAB theab so here too there's been a bit of a synthesis particularly in the religious sist world see that's fascinating that the religion the Yesa there's now for instance this morning here it's Friday morning it's almost sh since I quit FR FR today so on the way I picked up there one of the big rewards of living in Israel is you get a lot of freebies today it wasn't like that 54 years ago but we're a wealthy society today so you get all kinds of par sheets and um I picked up this morning uh the sheets one of them is it's called in Hebrew on alone I I don't know I translate a I don't know how to give a better translation a little booklet is all but in the context of the religious sinus world that has and it's Rabin one of the great people I knew in life so they have him and and my who arranged everything with you for this interview descends from so he he goes occasionally to the col St the re here originally from Brooklyn I think he's a third generation brooklynite but he has he he lives in G in in gatv actually have a grandson living right up the hill from him and he has a big following y tells me you see HDA boys there Yesa boys there there's a I don't have to tell you the so so why so why is it that they didn't uh rehire uh me so I just want to tell you both here in America and in Israel there's no reason to have enity today today we can merge very nicely on that which unites us which is T hasem and everyone has their own approach I'm a litak but I recognize the way I was raised I cannot raise my students I cannot raise my grandchildren my great-grandchildren they need something broader something that works in the year 2025 let me go ahead of I always don't want to say 2024 which is next week because uh you don't open your mouth without thinking what's going to be a year from now atum has to be careful so we merg now what you're talking about with Yu is I pleaded with them years ago open up another morning program that they have I think it's four or five different morning programs Yesa proper the the what became teach teachers Institute which became the brya school today uh you you have a a beginners program you have a santic program you have a a a minimal Yesa program open up AIC program what does AIC program mean exactly like that began in in laich in 18 in let me get the date right I believe it's 1897 you can correct me if I'm wrong and the six and the F and they be the first that first of all you went to mik in the morning after that the first hour we learn the rest of the day we like any in the world issued from so why you the only expense involved for them would be to build a mikah I'm talking our neighbor half half a minute away from here if you go to the doitor it's a state of thee art mikah because they have it probably a few thousand students they go to m every morning now the difference between me and some of my R not the R I had that would laugh a little if you said and they would laugh I don't laugh admire people who will the I understand it's not like a woman going to it's not the same inferences but there's this is is beautiful what's wrong so has a beautiful mikah it's a showcase Mikvah for men in their dormatory one of their dormatory buildings why you would invest in mikah uh the teachers they have number of teachers today who have cic overtone they have what to give and who to teach and you would attract you would have Kim you would have bre I got news for you you'll have an a few enlightened satma I had a t in the a few years ago who wore a stal and from with Al and a person with love and openness and and Broad bright broadness from Satur as well now did my program get me where not entirely uh although the president today is my U talmid Rabbi Weinberger The KES is my talid uh he studied with me in BMT B Med Torah the president studied with me in Chris K I Can't Tell You Why Rabbi Weinberger left what I was told from far was that he was interested in going out on his own and building a number of Institutions that would reflect his thinking that's what I was told from afar but while you retains him his name remains he occasionally comes he gives a she gives a talk gives a has a I can tell you here in Gru that uh they try once a year when he's in Israel to have him speak and we get a tremendous crowd of the students that are here in the post high school year uh the Gap year they call it and uh I understand that on a postgraduate level there is some connection with KDAY formerly where they're getting a master's degree uh I this is what I've read from Wu publicity so there is at least the start of relationship uh this relationship should be enhanced and uh in my humble opinion I can tell you in my Sho where I've been ding since 69 old Rift famous Sho in Jerusalem in it's in but no one El what is I'll say because these were originally two different areas RAV was established after World War I by the professors of hebu and the Germans who were coming and they wanted to be a totally secular neighborhood a Jew by the name of ET who I knew very well he came in 29 and uh said I'm settling here was a Milkman Bucky and Shas Bucky and Shas I never heard anyone who could give a better sheer than than than Rabbi eter and he was a Milkman made a living going around around with a a Dunkey with milk on on the side of on the part of on the sides of the Dunkey in cans and giving you milk every morning and he said I'm settling here the Arabs came and shot he shot back they never shot again and that was the start of named after which tells you what he wanted the neighborhood to be until the sixth day war there was a definite division between ravia and K today it has merged Mor into one neighborhood the majority of the people living in this area are shabas today both RAV and both now Rifka was the first shoe built the Cornerstone was laid in 1932 there's a famous picture of cook came and spoke and it's a big building at at when I came in was the third largest sh in yesin and then in K mosha the big sh and then and was Bish friend and his youth withit in by and the she totally Lish today I always tell people if the people I knew back in 69 came back to life and saw the Sho oh boy would they be shocked we have a side room it's called the so the main Sho has to many them 6:30 8:15 the side room I think it's 10 or 10:30 kabad you should see the crowd they get into that side room and then it overflows when the uh F when the second minion ends which is shortly after they begin and they got so big in our neighborhood that generally they walk half a block to oin which has a separate big kidish room because they're too many people for old R and say and I I see men women children I also hear a a world of English uh and and among them you see no what's wrong I think it's beautiful and and our whole neighborhood today has a synthesis I've used the word kabar has fenced Us in in all sides I remember when they began the right near the Great synagogue Rabbi Goldberg actually his brothers listened to me uh on Wu Torah and I said to M I said to my wife Mala what's who needs here I mean in Israel either you're or you're a Jew because you speak Hebrew and pay taxes to the government and you serve in the Army who you don't know what Hab has done H 9:00 in the morning 10:00 11:00 until p.m. in the afternoon the Milla is read on various locations in all of Rabia the raav part the K part you can't believe what happens or people who are not yet from let me use a more elegant language who have not yet discovered the blood in their veins walk by they stop the H Milla it's an experience chaua you don't know what goes on with the sh for blowing 4:00 5:00 in the afternoon anyone who didn't hear Chau then I saw my own eyes and was maybe coming back from I don't remember I see aik stopping people did you hear Chau for today and he's willing to blow 30 30 col I don't know where he gets the energy so to me the beauty is we all have to I I put it this way I wrote this in Washington and people have quoted it life is like a painting each one paints his own painting your colors your Ambitions your abilities but the frame is very solid that's and this is the way I view it that's the frame but each one is entitled to paint his own picture will why you eventually reach the decision and open up a fidic division in the morning I think so I think it's inevitable because you all know the statistics in America intermarriage and assimilation are rampant your president's entire family is intermarried with Jews you're your secretary of state Jewish your former ambassador to Israel Jewish everyone into marriage they don't know whatab is they don't know what Kash is they don't know what T Mish is who's remaining strong and firm all the satic so why you I hope with foresight Vision will open up and welcome with open arms and I've told people in whyu you build the mikah let it be on the front page of the New York Times that mik cost you let's say state-ofthe-art $50,000 that Mikvah will ultimately bring in 5 billion in donations that's the way I view it uh in my own classes over the years here I've had and on Zoom today and I I have a was the Philadelphia T all right he chose to make a living as a scientist a world class scientist he's now living in Israel many years I don't he doesn't miss a sh he's on the screen it's Zoom on the screen all the time and I kibit with him I don't call him I don't I call him the Tona what's your question any questions so when I open it the questions and uh I've had listening I have correspondence from G from satma from Square uh bells and and and and and Colin stolin and these are all people listening to the sh I have question I have a question if I may for a moment why didn't the overrule mha tendler stopping the she in when you 54 or whatever it was it's it's a good question I can only tell you the r may have not known anything because uh this was these were high school kids and uh it was like within the family was then teaching a high school sheer in addition to being assistant dean of the college and we were only a handful and I imagine it went quietly you got to remember Wu is a big place it's you got the high school the college and I mean I'm talking going back to the 50s you had The Graduate School Bernard Revel uh they were talking about Einstein Einstein begines a year I think it actually begins in 54 if I'm not mistaken if not a year later and uh this was a small issue but but this was the atmosphere this was the attitude right right now all all of the all of the all or many of the most of the rabim um were were lit foxs right they were L one exception there was only only only Rabbi gerstenfeld was I me God and I will not right right right so so okay so you you University follows the way so you know how do you reconcile his approach and that of the you know how much has been spilled on that it's very simple the you're aware of that and pretty vocal there's a whole two volume set published by a professor who I yet Mo from Hebrew valinski on the tell me find one that signed never signed the all theum that deal with it both Academia uh and both those that are more like on the Arro type they only can reach one conclusion that he was opposed to some of theic practice absolutely but he never was opposed to never rebuked anyone never told a tal take off your G and these are absolute facts so do you do you do you envision do you believe one day uh the B medes at at Yesa will have um like there is a mirr today three four 500 with and all that do you think y University will the B medes will have one day here of the b medes no I don't think it's a problem I'm I'm the minority I teach I I don't see a beard in my face rabstein I didn't see a beard in his face we were raised in we're in a Time War we were raised in a different era but sometimes I'm looking around at my class I'm looking at the screen on the zoom uh I would say 60% have beards I look at my grandchildren I have to think hard who doesn't have a beard you follow so uh Time Marches On I have a tnik we Rabbi mosha WEA you may know him from Crown from Coney Island he's done a very great great achievements and not only for Jews but for the general community he's been after his rebi was his Reby when he was a Youngster I put him on I helped him immensely and he he wrote his sa is now a thousand pages and I debated with him in I gave my point of VI with my sources he put it on coab online Co with his picture with a beard down to his belt and with my picture and back and forth what we said so I I only have to tell you it brings joy to life if the if our debate is within the framework of Tor hasem anday it's joy to life but to me there's something much more basic every individual has to express his own proliv his own abilities his own thinking that's the picture you paint but theem is the framework and all my life if you see I have students I I I I write about this in the Washington too I've had a lot of wonderful experiences in life but one little story it was and I'm walking in the Mayar area coming back with Strauss and I meet a another W no longer alive I'll call him Jerry I don't give his full names and he meets me and he and while we're talking you know he's Jerry Amani and we're talking and and along comes a young man with a long beard and he comes running to me Reby how are you and it's my tet from BMT and when he walks away my my colleague says to me Anie how did you fail like that that you have who look like that I said you dummy you should say how did you succeed like that that people who did can embrace you and hug you and say sh and that that's that's my point of view I hope they'll be listening in whyu the trouble is today they're busy with the you know with the the Iva league universities whyu has real problems because they're overwhelmed by applications today and not everyone trying to apply is a shame shabas you follow me and what do you do with G who love Jews and don't want to be exposed to this attitude Val we didn't put you in the crematorium along with the Six Million so why you has right but I so what is what is what is we have another four minutes left uh what about what is RAB sh's the today's riva's attitude on this have you ever discussed it with him I discussed it and dialogued with him I'll use that word uh his attitude has I hope changed over the years he met coming to Israel a few years ago they were at the kabad stand in JFK and they spoke with him and uh he he signed up for the Torah that was being written the names of the children so that showed me he's starting to appreciate and understand kabad uh the messianism is a problem uh I thought as time would pass the problem with amarate itself it has not uh it's there you know 770 the Bas Med and the signs that are up I was there before Corona I saw with my own eyes uh but we have to accept it and I I don't want to be naive but I trust that these people find that the Garin from among the Dead all right just relax yourself and let's let's wait and see I don't believe it I have a different problem if you look at the r it's more than anything else he has to be a warrior I would say the bash re in gilo who reached the rank of Brigadier General in the Israeli Army tatal I would say he may be more of a candidate to the Messiah than than anyone else so let's wait and see all right give it time and be we we we have much more tangible problems right now and Hal we I don't have to tell you you don't realize the tension we live with here because we all have I have I'm not not going to give you a number but between my brother and myself we come close to at the front lines right now M the front lines I I have a grandson who's the sets up the every he's a doctor every field hospital all the way down and us he explain to me how it works after the fighting stops the Army the the soldiers show them a building that they've cleared out sets up a field Hospital in the first floor of the building then when they move further all the equipment has to be moved they wait for the sign this building is cleared go in it's safe set up the next field Hospital have another grandson who's a tank commander these are old sikim I mean he teaches from shav and he told me already a month ago that he was all the way down at the Mediterranean and he saw the pipes for the water that the Army's going to put in to the underground tunnels so I knew long before it was in the news I knew what was going on the a help and have a great shab thank you very much thank you for your time you should be and you should see with your own am am amen amen take take care