R' Yoshe Ber: A Talmid's Perspective - Part 1 [R' Moshe Meiselman] (Ep. 341)

Hi, this is Rabbi Elasky, and welcome to the Rabbi Elasky show. And whether you're watching with our friends and producers over at 24/7, wherever you watch or listen to your podcast, as always, we're thrilled to have you along for the experience. And a few reminders over here. And that is we have a new phone hotline, 605-313-4799, where you can uh not only listen to the different uh programming that we do, but you also have the option of leaving a phone voicemail. Uh to remind you about our merch store, you can find it at my website, realelasky.com /merch, all the different exciting things we have there. And of course, if you want to help to support the show, you're not in a position to actually sponsor an episode, you can go to buymeacoffee.com / realelasky, where you can uh buy me a cup of coffee. I usually take it uh with Sweet'N Low and a little milk. And uh we have a sponsor this week. Uh our good friend Yehuda Zimmerman, dedicated in honor of my wonderful wife, and his wonderful wife, uh Aviva, and in memory of my parents, Shraga Feivel ben Michoel Halevi and Feiga bas Moshe Cohen. May their souls be bound up in the source of life. And uh Yehuda calls from time to time, and I know he listens to everything that we do, and so uh so I appreciate uh the time that you spend together with me and for the friendship. So, the topic that we want to discuss uh is something that has been a mystery to me my entire life. Now, to be perfectly clear, and knows my background, uh I went to a co-ed Modern Orthodox day school. And the gold standard of Yiddishkeit was Yeshiva University. And of course, the only godol that existed was Rav Soloveitchik. And then I went off after after school and I went into more Yeshivish Yeshivas, not that Yeshivish. I went to Chofetz Chaim. It was also not quite Yeshivish, but I went on from there to other Yeshivas, etc. And I found suddenly there was a different perspective of Rav Soloveitchik. And so I discussed this with different people over the years. And people said, "What do you mean? You know, Rav Soloveitchik he he studied he studied in the University of Berlin. He studied Kant. You know, he he studied philosophy." So he says, "What do you mean? Rav Soloveitchik he gave these five speeches to Mizrachi, you know, where he embraced the Mizrachi philosophy and was attacking the Haredim. You know, he uh this you know, basically painting him as a Modern Orthodox rabbi. And I'm I'm thinking particularly if you read the writings of Rabbi Riskin and Rabbi Avi Weiss and people like this, you get a particular perspective of the Rav. On the other hand, if you speak to other people, you get a completely different picture of the Rav. And I the mystery that I have been wrestling with my whole life is there's only one Rav Moshe Feinstein. Nobody has two versions. There's one Rav Aaron Kotler. There's one Rav Yaakov Kamenetsky. And yet so many different people seem to have a different perspective of Rav Soloveitchik. So I felt it is a public service to the entire frum world to be able to get perspective into a person who um uh was was it then it said son said you know to to have gifted when he was when he was a rub in Waterbury and he would try to get him to be the head of the Mizrachi. So Reb Mendel Berlin came in and try try to convince him. He says, "Look, I really belong in the Agudah and not Mizrachi, but tell me about Reb Chaim. You knew Reb Chaim." He says, "If you want to see Reb Chaim, go see Reb Yoshe Ber Soloveitchik. He has the mind of a Reb Chaim." So, it it's it's it's a tele. Which one is it? So, I have this list to have a casher with one of the most kosher people in our generation. He wants to say maybe he'll say but I'll definitely say Reb Moshe Meiselman, Rosh Yeshiva of Torah Moshe. I knew him back in 1978 when he was the Rosh Yeshiva of Yeshiva University of Los Angeles. And um uh we all wondered why he was there. >> [laughter] >> Eventually made his way to Ardsley and has built a mokem Torah that everyone knows is one of the most serious mokemus Torah, but also happens to be the nephew of Reb Soloveitchik, learned brusa with him for many years and has an understanding of the Reb of close and personal. And so, without any further ado, uh Reb Moshe Meiselman, shlita, Rosh Yeshiva, welcome to the Rabbi Laski Show. >> Thank you very much, Rabbi Laski. >> So, you hear my cut. I'm sure this is not the first time you heard it. >> See, the Reb Soloveitchik was a very unique individual in million different ways. And a very complex individual in many ways. >> Right. >> And he had a very specific view of where he fit into Jewish history and where he was as a person. And it was very clear in his mind. And many of his decisions were not his own decisions. They were the decisions of my grandfather, his father, Rav Moshe Soloveitchik. And also of both his two grandfathers, Rav Chaim and Rav Velvel Feinstein. And you have to understand the perspective of the time he was in, what he wanted to achieve, and what in perspective of history he did achieve. And therefore, to view him in a very monochromatic manner, single color, would not be that he was not that sort of a person. He's a complex person, but a specific view of what his goal was, and he felt that he did have it. >> The other gedolim held from him, right? That's fair to say? >> At that point in history, during the '40s and the '50s, he was undisputed undisputed three gedolei hador in America who were leading American Jewry. Rav Aharon Kotler, Rav Moshe Feinstein, and Rav Yosef Dov Soloveitchik. And there was no question the three were in a different league than everyone else, the rabbonim. And each of them recognized that those are the three of them. And when he came to the first Chinuch HaBayis dinner, and he walked into the room, Rav Aharon Kotler said, "I will be leading kiddush." And for the seating arrangement, the four standing everyone should sit up. Big deal, the gadol hador. just walk there. That was the words. It's still available. They were archived if they want to part with it. Um but that was wrong color. >> Yes. I would argue that most people in Lakewood today don't really know that. >> Most people in Lakewood don't know a lot of things. >> Yeah. >> The last 6 months of R' Aron Kotler's life, when he was very ill, and R' Shneur was busy taking care of him. Who took the financial fires of Beth Medrash Govoha? R' Shneur Kotler. Last time I spoke to R' Shneur Kotler, it's after R' Shneur was nifter. I was talking to her, and she told me the following. That when he came to Nachman Olman, for when R' Shneur was nifter, he sat down, and he thought for a minute. He said, "If he was my friend, my good friend, maybe my best friend." And she turned to me and says, "My husband felt the same way." That was his closest friend. >> Right. And him and R' Moshe, certainly. I mean, it was R' Moshe Lovin. >> Him and R' Moshe. R' Moshe It was a fight between the two of them. At a chasnah, each one would have the other would sit like this. Each one would sit the other one. The one sitting there. Our chasnahs were So what That was the fight between the two of them. >> Right. >> And they considered it was an under scooter at that time. He was way ahead, way beyond. And just in dollars in terror, was R' Zalman Rosovsky was the main market share in Eretz Yisrael with Shmuel Parnes. When he was sick, was in Boston for treatment for a half year, turned out he was living in the house next door to Rav Hershel Berelovich. And Reb Feivel Cohen took upon himself to introduce the two to each other. Up. When he came back to Eretz Yisrael, he was singing his praises. Obviously, Rav Shach had a lot of criticism of Rav Hershel Ber. And he tried to Rav Shach and says, "It won't help. He can learn better than both of us. He's a high-level learner than both of us. So, there's nothing to discuss." >> Right. >> A close friend, Rav Elibar Finkel, before he when he got married, before he came to the United States, because he was married so he left America, he went to ask Rav Shach whether he could live in front of Rav Hershel Ber's shul. So, Rav Shach says, "Yes, but don't go into Yeshiva University." So, he went to the Telshe night shul. And when he came back, he met Rav Rozovsky. Rav Rozovsky said, "You You're a market receiver of Rav Hershel Ber?" And he says, "Yes." So, to which Rav Rozovsky says, "I don't understand why everyone is running to learn by him." And so, Rav Elibar Finkel but you know when he says shiyur. So, Rav Rozovsky says, "It's Torah and avodah together." Once Rav Yerucham Galicia was talking with Reb Leib Male. from Bnei Brak who certainly was not same ideological dimension of uh leadership there. And he said he needed money and he exhausted all his sources of money for Bnei Brak. So I'll take you to Reb Zalman Auerbach. And went in. They went to Reb Zalman Auerbach who was Reb Zalman Auerbach. And they spoke for an hour or two in private. The girl from Galicia told me that when they left the night Reb Leib Male said what he needed was Reb Zalman to find a help him raise some money. We helped him raise a significant amount of money. When Reb Leib Male walked out, he turned to the girl from Galicia and said, "In my life I never met such a lot." You can go on and on. The head of Kollel was the head of Chinuch Atzmai. When he when he talked with us. Reb Elchanan had been in Boston raising money for Baranovich. And he stayed two weeks in Boston. Stayed in Reb Zalman Auerbach's house. And he turned to him uh he turned and came to talk with us afterwards. And he [snorts] called all the Boston room to talk with us. I don't understand why people times Reb Zalman Auerbach is in South a single Reb Zalman Auerbach who lived there who learned who was so involved in learning as Reb Zalman Auerbach sitting by himself in Boston. I don't understand why people aren't going running to it. So we're trying to follow him. They thought of moves. He was a Shiva in Boston then. He drove a family car. He left sort of that Sunday called going to Hawaii. The head of Kollel is Reb Elchanan Dovid. Talked with Reb Elchanan, talked with Reb Leib Male, and talked with Reb Auerbach, talked with Reb Zalman Auerbach. He was also he was talking to me about him. >> There's no There's no biography of Reseda that tells these stories. >> Well, I happen to know it. >> I know, that's what I'm saying, when you when you read the official >> There are a bunch of little stupid children running around like politics, okay? That There's nothing I can do about that. >> Right. >> And Rebbe Chaim was known as a big kind of guy. Rebbe Mile was known as a big kind of guy. >> Right. >> So, let's just first discuss on the level of luminator. >> Right. >> Well, I run through skin. I don't know where the You know where I run through skin was. Where you should find since Rebbe and when he was a buffer was a Pesach was He had a son of Rebbe Run Through Skin. Who was of Yana who became a Rebbe in the United States. He called the following story. That once he was a Rebbe in a city in Lita and before Pesach they ran out of shmur matzah shmur wheat to make shmur matzah. He was asking people where they can get needed first thing in Yuma. And he went to ask people who who has extra flour. Sender Chaim in Brisk has extra flour. She came to Brisk and said to my little Chaim and said I would like to uh my community ran out of flour. I have extra flour. I'm saying yes. Before I give it to you, I want you to talk to my grandson. He's also Leo's Adar. And and he went he talked to him and he came back and said I'm giving him the flour. So, in terms of guidance talk from the time he's very young. >> Right. >> He was out question. He was essence of Leo's Adar and Leo. He's a man who's a master of closet from the gifts of And in the words of R' Zalman Auerbach, what he told the Rosh Yeshiva, you can talk to him everywhere. Talk to him about all of Shas, you can talk to him from Berachot to Uktzin. You can talk to him in in the Orach Chayim section of Shulchan Aruch, you can talk to him in Machshavah, Chochmah, Binah, you can talk to him in Chassidus. He covers everything. He's a very broad person who Siddi Eitz HaTorah enveloped the entire Torah. The Masmerotsam from the Gevuras Ari is piled up. That was in terms of level of inner Torah. >> Right. >> And that's not my statement, it's a statement of Gedolei Torah of the generation, the Iluy. >> Right. >> And that's fair. And that was And that was very fair. >> So, where does all the controversy come from? We have to understand Well, certain context. >> Right. >> When he It was not his decision to go to Volozhin. It was a dual issue at the time. Uh the decision was made by my grandfather, R' Moshe Soloveitchik, to give the live his father, R' Yitzchak Zev Soloveitchik. We have to understand the relationship between my R' by grandfather, R' Moshe Soloveitchik, and his and his father, R' Yitzchak Zev. Here's the story that R' Yitzchak Zev once told me. R' Yitzchak Zev was a town in my grandfather, R' Moshe Soloveitchik. Then he went from there to Telz. Telz is not that far from the city of Raseiniai, which was my grandfather's first town. He was there from about 5 6 years. Um, he left in 1912 to take the rabbinical position of Slonim. Just eat the nourish. So, Reb Chaim was He was around >> He lived with him in Europe? >> What? >> He lived with him in Europe? >> No, Reb Chaim was the common age of my grandfather Reb Isser Zalman Meltzer. >> In Europe? >> Yeah, in Reb Isser Zalman Meltzer. And then after a while, he says he's going to go to Europe. And he, um, went and went to Montreux. >> In In Europe? Yeah, in Europe during 1912 in Europe? No, 1912 in Europe. >> No. So, um, he, uh, so he decided just he wanted to go to the same to speak to people who would have memories of his rebbe, Reb Isser Zalman Meltzer. And he went the way he repeated to me was all in Yiddish, but I'll say it in Yiddish and Reb Chaim says words and I'll translate them into English. Reb Chaim didn't listen to Reb Isser Zalman Meltzer but never listened to Reb Isser Zalman Meltzer. I Reb Chaim coughed in Reb Isser Zalman Meltzer's ear. Meltzer coughed in Reb Isser Zalman Meltzer's Reb Isser Zalman Meltzer would not do anything that he heard what he thought his father Reb Isser Zalman Meltzer was. Number one. So, all these very smart people have to understand my grandfather who was the senior Talmudist of Reb Chaim and the senior son of Reb Chaim. >> You do >> I'm mentioning >> So, I guess not. >> So, I would say Reb Chaim didn't listen to Reb Isser Zalman >> Right. >> So, he made a decision >> For background, I I read your mother's book, so I have I have a little background. >> So, my grandfather not to be here anything from what he thought his father Reb Isser Zalman >> Right. >> So, this that decision was made together with another issue. >> So, you you think Reb Chaim would have him things that >> no idea what Reb Chaim would have said. I know what my grandfather thought. He thought That's all I can repeat. And if he not He did not do work without the consent and the encouragement of his father, Reb Aryeh Leib Frisch. >> What was the khashav? >> I don't know. He has to come to the first minute of the seder. >> [laughter] >> I'm not so much a dairyman. >> What? >> I'm not so much a dairyman. I didn't learn by you, by your >> Okay. >> He has to come to the first minute. >> You're talking about a world of 100 years ago. >> Right. >> You have to understand where my grandfather was, where his thoughts were on the topic. And what did what did he talk? Who else do you know who my great grandfather, Reb Aryeh Leib Frisch, was? The highest referred to as the pair hador. Went to shul a lot. Was old. The Rav of Yerushalayim. He was the Rav of Yerushalayim. And the king was getting blind. And they called with the godol that they could bring Reb Aryeh Leib Frisch to take over the ruling population of Yerushalayim. They offered it to Reb Aryeh Leib Frisch. And he turned it down the offer again. And he was considered besides the pair hador as had considered be kakh the kakh hador. And Reb Michel Feinstein told me and Reb Baruch Kahane that that other rabbonim said had Reb Aryeh Leib taken the rabbonus, Yerushalayim would not have split into two. He would have held the whole tzibbur together. >> Yeah. >> He's considered megdole hador. And but they together made out the shidduch. So, you have to understand a basic philosophy that guided my grandfather, that guided Reb Aryeh Leib Frisch, And that set the tone for his life. My grandfather was the rov in Skhidnytsia. Which was a Chabad town. Around 25,000 Jews. And every one was Shomer Shabbos. Immediately after the Communist Revolution, 1/3 of the 1/3 of the city just walked off. The workmen. And for the next four years he was there, everything entered the fall apart. And he found that he was unable to communicate with the people. Especially the youth. Who had been in infiltrated by also the Communist ideology. And it he realized things were going very bad. 1921, and he escaped Russia. And came and came out. But then he had to make he was supposed to come to the Shiva Volozhin at that time. Volozhin was going to be reopened for me to bow over by our friend Joseph. The friend Reiser. For various technical family reasons, he decided against it. And then an opportunity came up. You have to understand the period between the wars. Yiddishkeit in Europe was falling apart. >> Right. >> It's going to not. And that's why in the end my grandfather came to the United States. He figured you have the two places to rebuild. Either the United States or Israel. Europe is Europe is spiritually finished. >> Really? Oh, even at that point? >> Even at that point. That's why he left in in 1929. The same way >> These are the kind of things that Victor Miller used to talk about. They got to >> Victor Miller writes it very has a very people didn't like a book cuz it's full of true facts. >> That's right. >> It's falling apart in the disaster sphere. It as a big dilemma points out this book the numbers of unit of all these shivers and all of your opposed by mix of Asia and have a thousand Tamid while you have tens and tens of thousands of Jews in all of the universities and holds. >> Yeah. >> You're falling apart totally. The one who reached these same conclusion was the Shimon Shkop. In fact, my grandfather was offered the Stella key leftist. He but when he saw where English guy was in Holland the Katowice was falling apart. He made a decision, a very fundamental decision. At that time they took a Stella class got Tus Kamogin which the people running it were aligned with Mizrahi. My grandfather loved the people of Mizrahi. My grandfather wouldn't have been to Vilna. But his idea was >> So he's doing the good >> What? >> When he came to in America, is he part of the >> We'll get there. >> Okay. >> We'll get there. You want a full picture of the year full >> I wanted a full picture. >> A full picture. We're not part of the good order in Russia because for time it was against the law. Right. >> Right. >> I attended the founding of good order in Katowice. And only because his friend Gershon Shagan asked him to come and he brought the Hamburg. What did he do make back in the Shiva evaluation? And they were bathroom. And he they did not fulfill his conditions. You can read about it. And frozen hands yours frozen hands by biography should be German with how to translate it to English. >> He gave the muscle the electric company. >> That was a money that was against all those things what to do after it. It was against all things. >> All right. >> When in Russia when communist was taken over it was a group of a group of wanted to establish a group of rabbonim in Russia. To figure out what to do. And they asked my grandfather to join and be at the head. And finally said have nothing to do with it. But the plan of Yummy told my grandfather after the cough it was fine. He had gotten many aspects of it. So my grandfather at that point did not try to do it. So my grandfather's feeling was where is the door today? I have to be my husband to door where they are today and teach them Torah where they are today. And the bets with the door in Poland was have to understand Ralph Tommy D and Ralph Klein in Lithuania between the wars are identified with the straw. Okay. I don't know if you realize that. Okay. Who was the head of Misrahi in in Europe was the cardinal Ralph and Ralph Klein called Tommy D. But my grandfather had nothing to do with that. My grandfather had a different attitude. That the door is falling apart. I have to teach the Torah Torah to them where they are to them and hold them from falling completely apart. >> So he it was his experience watching how the Haskalah and the communists destroyed the >> And seeing what was happening in Poland this thing was. The war was over 1918. By the time he got to Poland he was 21. >> Right. >> It was after Shavuot, he was 21. So, he um he had seen We saw very clearly what was happening. Everyone place is falling apart. In fact, it was safer I saw. Yeah, but I was joking showed it to me once. And by the Mashgiach of Baranovich, he says, "If things keep going like they are, there will be no one to turn out the lights because everything is going enough." Reb Shimon Shkop, my grandfather left his shtetl in 19 28. In in Warsaw. And at that time, Reb Boruch Ber was in America. My grandfather's club two closest friends were Reb Boruch Ber and Reb Hersh Levinson. Reb Chaim Chaim's um son-in-law. So, it's Sadiq Sayada. And Reb Boruch Ber was in New York at the time. And the Rosh Yeshiva at the time was still kind of the time was the Mashgiach Eliyahu was nifter. They told take my grandfather. After my grandfather my from grandfather jumped at the opportunity, they thought you're his experience of Poland was nothing to do with it. You know, American got to begin from the bottom up. And wherever it is, we have to begin building from the bottom up. But there were no other you know them who had this philosophy. Shimon Shkop was what I know he thinks with Reb Shimon. Reb Shimon had that and we'll get to Well, a lot of people had that idea. So, the truth So, at that point, it took a year. My grandfather had a lot of problems getting a visa to the United States with the the anti-Semitic um American consul in in Warsaw. In the meantime, Reb Shimon was in the United States. Reb Shimon told the shtetl of "I'm going to give Shimon this book now." Shimon Shkop Reb Shimon Shkop At that time boy, I thought grandfather finally got the visa, sent a telegram to New York, they got the visa, he's coming. Reb Shimon Shkop wanted out of Europe, there was no future. And he said "I'll stay in America." My grandfather wanted out of Europe and wanted to come. And he pulled the eight set "Tell Reb Shimon it's my shtetl, I'm coming." The day after my grandfather got on the boat in Gdansk, Reb Shimon left New York and he came back uh to Europe. But when he came back to Europe, try to get a shtetl in Eretz Yisrael. And Reb Kook offered him the position of being a Reb as a Rav. >> Mhm. >> Supposed to become Reb Shimon Reb Kook as a Rav. And at that point >> That would have changed history a little bit. >> You don't know what the world was or how things have developed or where they've gone. They think of 100 years gone in terms of today. Reb Kook very Reb Kook have been very close to Reb Shimon Shkop in back of the rush. There are certain political forces in America as a Rav that didn't want Reb Shimon coming. And they torpedoed it. Reb Shimon turned to his friend Reb Isser Zalman who was then in Eitz Chaim. See, it was either going to Eitz Chaim or going to America as a Rav. Today you can't understand that. Frankly, if you don't If you don't know what the world was like. And the suggestion was there room for him also for Reb Shimon in together with Reb Isser Zalman in America. And they told Reb Shimon stay in Europe. Reb Shimon understood understood that Reb Isser Zalman said "Reb Shimon might have even left it and go to Germany." So Lithuania was finished. Germany hit the His marshal was when something's falling to something that when it hits bottom he could bring it up. Germany hit bottom. >> Mhm. >> That That's why he went to Germany. He was not successful in Germany, he didn't didn't understand the German mentality. It was a It was a different mentality. So, that is a background of where people were and when they saw Yisrael Yisrael. When they saw Yisrael Yisrael. And the ideal was A they need a person who was the manager of the door who would be the manager of the door would be able to speak the language of the people where people were at. That was a deep concern. That was A B There's another factor. That's uh people don't like to that's true. And my My mother Rebbetzin first cousin is Dr. Prekowsky wrote in her biography that at that point Rebbetzin was drafted into to the Polish army. So, a doctor gave an advice what to do. No, don't sleep before the medical, don't sleep for 3 nights, keep drinking coffee, your heart will go crazy, and uh So, he did that before the test. But, they were suspicious and they began training him. He realized he had to leave Poland. Which is what to do with a left foot. That coalesced >> [clears throat] >> with the idea you need someone who would speak the language, who could understand the door. And that's when he left Poland went to Germany. >> Right. >> It was the two things coming together. And each one by itself would not be sufficient. >> Right. >> That was that. And that's why he ended up in Berlin. If you I don't know if you ever read the trial. The Chabad has big victory they had in court when Donetsa when the Lubavitcher rebbe's nephew took him to court about only the library. Yeah, yeah. So they published a a book which had the transcript of the trial. And transcript of the trial was that the obviously Lubavitcher rebbe wasn't going. His wife went to testify. So among the questions they asked her was what was the relationship between your husband and Zalman Yitzchak Rubashkin? And this is it's the this is the proceedings of the trial where she had to say. Where her father came to Berlin to visit them. The um the he saw his son-in-law Zalman Yitzchak Rubashkin. Zalman Yitzchak Rubashkin was sitting learning on the ladder. And going to the university where he was on the side. While and he had a tie at his son-in-law while he is saying his university studies so serious. So says so says Lubavitcher rebbe that her father had big ties. >> Okay. >> He saw him on the young way talking about his So and it was there >> Did they have a relationship? And then they really had a relationship? I mean he went to a tish that was famously why he went to the tish. Uh herring? >> [laughter] >> Here you go. Story goes like this. They knew each other. Zalman Yitzchak Rubashkin had a lot of respect for him. And they had a there was a lot of mutual respect. Mutual respect was based on the lot of people ended up in Berlin at the time. The law in Berlin was that The law in Berlin was that the third day. But, um, we won't go into that. But, a lot of people were. Um, they like to cover it all. The Rebbe showed up versus Scheringer. What they took The Rebbe took him out of Scheringer's place. Okay. Yeah, I'm going to listen. All right. Okay. So, the mutual respect. He saw that the previous Rebbe kept all of the leadership in Berlin didn't change. Went to mikveh every day in the morning in Berlin. Which was like unheard of. Right. Right. The previous Rebbe saw it. The previous Rebbe was learning all the law. The fact that they kept the Renaissance was without a change. And something was a lot easier to swallow. Yeah. And because of that, the mutual respect. It was on Purim. I'll tell you a story about Purim. Okay. I'll tell you a story about Purim. One Purim, the previous Rebbe got a little intoxicated. And he went out in public and began giving a drash. The law in Berlin was then in order to have a public speech, you needed permission from the police. So, police showed up, saw this guy giving a drash, and there was a crowd around. very articulate in that drash. They arrested him and put him in jail. Trial the next morning. >> This is one of those little Rebbe's holidays when they come out of prison. >> no, no. That I'll tell you the whole story. It's a very interesting story. >> They have a lot of prison holidays. >> Okay. But, this That's when they were put in jail for Mr. Scheringer. You had to get out of there. This is a different jail. Yeah. 11:30 at night, someone knocked on the door, Reb Shmuel Berel. They couldn't They couldn't recommend a jail for him. Then I got a gun out. The jail was outside the city limits. So, he got the last bus going outside the city limits to the police station near the jail. Oh, and so he walked in, asked the holding him. You know, he also is very articulate. You know, all gosh. Said They said, "Babe, it's a fraud. You're not allowed without a license." Give a public speech on public property. So, he wasn't giving public speeches. He was talking He was talking to himself. Just people what wages what he was talking to himself about. He was so convincing, convinced the police beat. And then And then they let him go. Now, it's 2:00 in the morning. There's no bus. They're outside the city. They walked 4 hours back into Berlin. As they're walking back to Berlin, Reb Shmuel Berel turns to about Shvirin says, "You know, someday you're going to be a rabbi." So, Reb Shmuel Berel says, "How do you know?" He said, "Oh, prerequisites of being rabbix and been in jail." >> [laughter] >> You were just in jail. You were young, say. Being in jail to become a rabbi just for these few few hours. Okay. Now, that's not to suffer. Okay. Years later, when they had the farbrengen farbrengen 25 years of Reb Shmuel Berel today. They put tremendous pressure Reb Shmuel Berel. Who's there? Chabad. Take. He had He had take Berel. He had a big Berel, mister. What the heck Berel Peters? I I can go to all the different Berel at. There's a lot of mutual respect. There's a lot of mutual respect between them. Both people felt the world didn't understand where they were coming from, what they were doing. Oh. So, I know personally I was living in Los Angeles at that time. You know, I was once in Los Angeles. My closest friend in Los Angeles was He called me up about signing something. The Rebbe called and I should sign some publication of rabbonim and by giving back shidduchim. I never signed anything. I could buy He kept calling me every day and I'll get rid of the pressure. I said, "Off. You listen to your I'll call my Rebbe." Uh I called him. And I was having a screaming yelling, "We don't give in to the Fuhrman pressure. They can pressure. Don't give in to the pressure." >> [laughter] >> Screaming yelling, "Rebbe, don't let him give in to that pressure." I said I called that my friend in business and I really said lots of stuff. But the following week I'm in New York. Tuesday night Tuesday night He got into the pressure. >> [laughter] >> Tuesday night I um he gives a shiur. I wanted to go and see him. Wednesday I go and knock on the door. So, I try and talk I can't come talk to you. I can't talk to you. Come back tomorrow. Can't talk. Come back. Okay. I don't know what it was about but he was he was beside himself. I mean I was liking because you had 100 Rebbes out. So, that night I was I was I spent the night with my brother-in-law Rabbi Mendel Bleich who was subsequently over in that car ever who was living in Washington Heights. My sister-in-law was a big fan of Chabad. She's listening to the Fuhrman Rebbe and all of a sudden I hear who who hears your base salvation just one in. Everybody said everyone has to stand up. Get whole big introduction. Then I understood I understood the whole order. Next day walked in and he was very taken by the whole event. What had the rebel called him up about? So this is 24 years I'm with it. He was the first person who ever told me I was going to be rebel. We got to come. >> Wow. But he's in Berlin. And he's studying philosophy. I didn't philosophy though. Why Why did he choose that? What? Yeah. So I mean he famously there was a famous quote where he said, "I never understood the others until I learned Kant." He never said that. He never said it. So where did that quote come from? So made it up. Really? You know how many times people have been beating up on him for that quote? He never said. He never said. Kant is an Anglo office. How did they say that until he was like character of God? No mate. Character of God wrote about the the arcade. When you go on time to nothing do. So what are they talking about? People I'll tell I'll tell you. Schopenhauer also. Schopenhauer was Schopenhauer from Java. He turned to me and said, "I don't know the elegant approach." Was there ever a person who they looked at under a microscope under what then? Uh and his interest angle could be on microscope. >> [laughter] >> They will find he did any of that ever. Who in the world they look everything he does they look on microscope and in fact Did they ever find anything he said that was not perfect except that he had except for his writing be clear. Three. But he didn't stop talking and they checked everything he said and the fountains such a stupid thing always some stupid they should have brought but it doesn't know what counties were made of. Really. You never such as you thought they said. So I'll tell you something I heard from Berel Wein. Just for Just the Arts. He was Berel Wein once was the head of OU Kashrus. Yeah. And the pose they for OU Kashrus was to be shipped there. Once it was a whole new technology and he had to have a meeting with all the OU Mashgichim to explain what it was to get him a hall pass. So Berel Wein called them that he had to come down to the office and sit around the table. They're all excited. Okay. So Reb Gershon Ber told him listen this is this is this is from Colombia. What are you talking about the nuts? And I'd been trying to get with So guess what? I'll set up an appointment to meet in the office and after 15-20 minutes the lock on the door says I was so educated in the pocket. Okay. This guy and that them pick up everything you had corrupted. I didn't do anything. Do it. Okay. So I said they talked 15-20 minutes however time was allowed. And and then Berel Wein knocks on the door said that it's all ready has a point appointment. Um he has to leave. He got something for the fastest tall. I why you don't bother blowing says me never such insights of our lives our summer la la la la. And I as he's walking to down the hall the right way line from that they don't get it. They'll all come to one line and they're all bunched. >> [laughter] >> Why are the story like that? We had a meeting with Bishop Sheen. >> You know Bishop Sheen? >> So, who was it? It was that This is the story. The Archbishop of New York at the time. >> I don't know Bishop Sheen. >> So, it wasn't Sheen? >> She wasn't a bad person. >> Whoever it was, apparently there was a meeting and then he said, "This man knows a lot about Christianity in the book." >> [laughter] >> No mitzvah. >> So, guys, there's another story that I haven't >> Most of the stories are bluff of them. >> [laughter] >> I'll tell you what he wants. Well, Jonathan wanted to talk. >> Yeah. >> He came to me to ask some questions that going through the net system's writings it doesn't match the biographies of the net system. I said, "That's what you believe everything you read in the biographies." >> [laughter] >> I know the reality, okay? So, I said that stories are stories. Okay, people one says another five out of five people comes back. >> So, what was his relationship with YU? Cuz I heard different stories of this. I mean, you would have told me that in the New York Times Rabbi Lamm wrote his only position that the Rebbe held was visiting professor >> with Tumin. >> Everyone thinks he was YU. He was >> He was not YU. I was once standing with him in a classroom. He believed very deep his job was to teach all of people where they are at. My job is to call to all the issues around him and not keep all the issues at all. Um I want the Hamon I'm wearing tall. And I will teach him to all around the world and all of them. What Rabbi Yossi was fine here when around speaking and speaking and speaking and speaking. He didn't stop speaking. He You asked him to give a Hey, you give a Asked him to give a He didn't stop speaking. The idea people have all these tissue above things nowadays. Who began that idea? They They They put it in a safer of his. Okay, what did he say? The first one to have made current tissue above into day of understanding and called him what was that? And he had hundreds of people flying up to Boston for His job was to teach Torah, bring Torah to the Yeshiva of Rabbis. That was his job. I was standing with him in a classroom in Wiyu. And on the window there, there was a symbol There was an emblem of Wiyu that says Torah Madah. So, he um Someone says, "Rebbe, what does that mean?" He responded, "That was there It was there before I began working here." When Norman Lamm wrote his book Torah Madah he didn't mention Rabbi Hirsch at all. Never mentioned. Of all the thousands of brushes that there was one something he made where he had a reference to a culture. Or the same sofa whatever, but that was a reference culture, but he was there and who was there? He That was his way of teaching Torah to the broad populace. That's where America was. That's where he was teaching. Like he did not hold from It's not hold. It's not hold. That means you You're using a noun and a verb that don't match. His job was teaching Torah wherever it is. Is that right? That's his job was teaching Torah wherever it is. As my grandfather said, "That's his philosophy of Torah." He began wherever they asked to teach Torah. When he was in Berlin, his idea was to open a Yeshiva in Berlin. And then he My grandfather wrote, "You don't understand what's happening in Germany. You're too inside. You see it from the outside. There's no future there. You got to get out of there as soon as you can get." But he, his job was to teach Torah whatever the people were, wherever it was. And he didn't stop teaching. He wanted to give a drasha. Give a drasha. You want to give a drasha today? >> Well, so where does this perception come of him being this marginal Orthodox, you know, beacon? >> You have to understand one thing. >> Okay, and uh we will finish with some appreciation comments. Thank you for how you spoke on Tisha B'Av and for putting this on Torah Anytime. It really helped me be in the right mindset and mood on this important day and gave me direction on what to do with Tisha B'Av. I was discussing with my mother the best things to listen to on Tisha B'Av and I told her, "Don't worry. I got a lot of mussar. I was listening to Rabbi Orlansky from this year and all the years." I appreciate that. And that's it for this episode. If you want to find out more about the show, you can go to my website rabbiorlansky.com. You can [music] ask a question, leave a comment, uh download uh other materials that are there, sign up for one of our online shiurim, sponsor a episode, sponsor a question and answer, sponsor a parsha in 5. And that's [music] it for this episode. Until next time, I am David Orlansky and this has been the Rabbi Orlansky Show. >> It's the Rabbi Orlansky Show. Torah and simcha, ready to go. The Rabbi Orlansky Show. Knowledge and wisdom will help you grow. Lots of fun [music] in every episode. And we don't have to rhyme, though we don't. It's the Rabbi Orlansky Show. rabbiorlansky.com Torah anytime. YouTube more. It's the Rabbi Orlofsky Show. Torah and Simba, ready to go. It's the Rabbi Orlofsky Show. Till next time, till we meet again, Rabbi Orlofsky Show. It's the Rabbi Orlofsky Show. It's the Rabbi Orlofsky Show.