Q&A Kesher Nafshi Rabbi Shloime Ehrlich and Rabbi Shloime Usher Tauber

This Torah class is brought to you by tora anytime.com. Okay. English. English. Huh? English. Okay. Uh let's uh let's set the stage. Let me introduce myself. Who I who I who am I? Um I had the privilege of attending a Kash of Shi Shabaton a few weeks ago. Um, I came with the intention with the concern of a struggling child that we have. Um, I actually presented him to the public on Thursday. I had a live argument with him on the stage and it went pretty well. Um, which will be played later. Um but the problem was I came home with a lot of clarity and guidance and direction how to deal with a struggling child while I did not get as much clarity is on the siblings that we have at home which unfortunately it's a big part of the issue a big part of the problem big part of the challenge that the struggling child is having because as a parent. Besides having to deal with the sibling fighting, sibling rivalry, they're also telling me what to do. The other kids, they're smart and they're telling me, "Tati, you're not doing this right. You're not doing that right." So, they're giving me advice and obviously I can't listen to them. So, that's another fight. So, I'm building it. So there's rivalry between themselves, rivalry between them and myself and me not doing my job as a parent right. And then the third level is jealousy. There's a lot of jealousy because this kid is taking a lot of money and power and time and energy out of us. So we're we end up spending a lot of time with him and others feel left out. I hope my question was clear and I don't know where to start. It's very common. I'm happy that you're bringing up this topic because uh I think that every person that's in this para that's in this um in this siga going through this challenge in their life in their family. This is one of the first things that come up. Okay, so I'm getting trained how to deal with my child that's struggling. What do I do with the rest of the family? Right? So, uh, I'm happy to to talk about it. I think that for starters, it's, um, you know, you only fight, you're only upset at someone that you love and care for. So, the families that have a struggling child, a struggling sibling, and they don't care, there's no fighting, there's no jealousy, there's nothing happening, that that's that's a bigger issue because when they don't care for their sibling, it's it's a broken family. uh you would think the otherwise that if there's fights it's a broken family. The very fact that siblings care what other siblings do and you start giving advice to the parents and unsolicited advice. It it shows that the family is very and they really care and that's why they're fighting. Brothers fight because they love each other and they you know if you you don't care about someone you doesn't bother what they do. So So I guess I should take that that they're fighting with me that they love me. Yes. as well. Yeah. They care about you. They care about the family. Then they love me a lot. Yeah. If they don't care about the family and they don't care about anything, they wouldn't tell you anything. They're just living in their room coming home from Kaidisha and then when they have they go back. The kids that come home and they're angry and they keep grudges and they there's a lot going on. That's that's a compliment, you know. So in every insult is a compliment. Okay. So how do we deal with this compliment? Okay. How do you deal with that compliment? is by realizing that um that your mission is not just the kid that's struggling. Your mission is everybody around you. Just in case if you didn't know till now. And uh well let's we're going to get very practical. We're going to get very practical about it. It's it's it's definitely something that we need to to deal with. But just to make a quick introduction to to practical advice, I think that um if we see if a family has say a a a medical issue with one of the children, it's the same thing. You have the whole family is is is on turmoil, there's a lot going on. Uh or you know that there's there's people that have even even a down syndrome kid in the family, right? that keep the kid home and they go through different medical procedures more than regular kids or there's more there's shame there's many different things that go on for the siblings. You're not going to you're not going to say the parents are they're dealing with that kid and dealing with the rest of the children. It's just that it's it's the nan is not the challenge is not only given to the parents it's also given to the siblings. So whoever is born into a family that has uh a issue with one of the siblings, if it's mental problems, emotional problems or or yiddish issues or personality, whatever it is, it's bashed for the siblings also to go through this. And this is going to help them grow to the best they have to and only Hashem could decide who should be in which family. So we as parents, yes, we do have to carry the burden. We do have to try it to see how we could help the the struggling child, but we're also trying to figure out how to help the siblings. But by knowing that it's their challenge just like yours that just have different parts of that they could do for this challenge. I think that makes it a little easier for us. That's okay because you can't take it away. If you still didn't accept that every child in the family was exactly where they're supposed to be in the family, then it's then whatever you'll do practically to help the siblings of the of the struggling child, you're still going to always carry that guilt. But once you take of that part, you say, "Hashem chose my family to have this kid. Hashem chose the rest of the kids also. And whatever they need to go to to go through in their life to grow and to become better beings is this is part of their journey as well. take that, accept that and then we can get very practical. Okay, I get it. I'll I'll switch roles at the moment. Okay. Yeah. Um I understood very well what you said. Obviously that's it is that it is part of it is part of the challenge. Okay. It's not that we have two challenges. It's all one. Okay. But there's I want if I may add there's another very important factor that plays out with siblings um which is a little different than with the struggling child that is guilt and shame which a lot of them go through which unfortunately this the struggling child does not. He doesn't carry guilt for himself. He or she he or she doesn't carry shame of of otherwise they wouldn't do what they're doing. They're not in a state of being ashamed. Um, but the siblings are and that is something we have to be uh sensitive to as parents. Um, because many of I just had it today this morning. I had someone with me um who has a struggling son. And there's a daughter that's he has this boy has a sister like a year and a half younger than him. She's probably 15 and she carries a tremendous amount of guilt because they were fighting all along all the years which is typical normal but she feels that she has a big part in him ending up where he ended up and she really believes that and to take that away is critically important because guilt can destroy a person. That's the guilt part. And I always emphasize when it comes to guilt, obviously besides explaining to them that there is nothing a sibling can do to a sibling that will make them go after their it's impossible. Impossible. I'm not agree talking about exact I'm not talking about extraordinary like an older sibling hurting a younger one in different ways. We're not going to get into it. I'm not talking about immoral stuff. I'm talking about regular rivalry between siblings no matter what. It can never happen. Then we explain it to them so the siblings understand that. But that is the guilt part. But there is another uh part to guilt which is called a they carry responsibility as a sibling which is also so important for us parents to take off that they are not responsible for their for their brother or sister. They're just not responsible. And I had one uden guru who once told me that I should tell to the siblings tell them they don't even need to dven for them because if they d for them that care that that alone is responsibility I didn't d enough I should have had more kuna or this don't even d interest you're okay I'm not saying it as everybody has their own story but someone told this to me on a specific case where one of the siblings when it's was gone around every kavern and every lab and not lab to get bras. You don't need to quiet down. You don't that's not your responsibility. That's part of taking a to the next level where it hurts them. That's that's also part of the guilt. And then there's shame which is so so important to talk to them that first of all it's normal. It's normal to be ashamed. It's normal. there's nothing wrong with you that that you that you're embarrassed about your brother, about your sister. It's normal for make it validate the feeling which we always do, right? And explain to them why where is this shame coming from. The real reason of shame is the underlying reason of shame usually is guilt. And if you take away the guilt, the shame lowers the it's not so intense anymore the level of shame. So they're not so embarrassed anymore because it has nothing to do with me. And you explain it to them that you are in charge. You are entitled. You're responsible for your life. You're not responsible for your brother, your sister. Let them do whatever they need to do. It bothers you, but it's not reflecting on you. We're still a good family. That's why it's important to be a good family to emphasize on that. So that is the part of shame. as a tip which I can share is that it worked for many which it works with boys and girls which many times they'll have the issue that they want to walk in you know let's let's take a boy he's going to walk into the lunchroom and he's and yesterday something happened with his brother the whole everybody's talking about it he acted out in a certain way everybody he's on the headline news now okay and you this boy is going to walk in is he or she's in school and she's going to walk into the lunchroom where everybody and they are convinced that everybody is talking about them. They're convinced and it may be true. Maybe true. So, how do they get out of this? The worst they can do is not go into the locker room. We need to encourage them. You don't change your actions because of it. That's extremely important. You do do it. You do it as hard as it is. You break through it. It will help you for life. But as a tip which works a lot is when you walk in and you sit down at the table with your friends and you bring up the conversation. You heard about my brother what happened yesterday. You bring up the then you took the air out of the tires. It's gone. It's busted. First of all, you helped everybody. They will be thankful because you took away they are under a lot of pressure how to talk to you about this. And now the fact that you're talking about it right and now we can talk about it and most of the time they won't and you just you you made a statement I have nothing to be embarrassed about. You did it. Not everybody can do it but those who can it really helps you. Beautiful. So to add on the uh what you're saying the guilt I think that some of the struggling kids do have a guilt. Maybe they don't feel guilty for what they did for the family, but uh I think that a lot of them carry a guilt in uh of what pain they're causing their parents, even if they're in the spiral of of uh you know, I call it a spiral. You're referring to the struggling child. The struggling child has guilt. I see it in my school when I talk with the girls and and and we bring up questions and many of them are asking they're saying that I cause so much pain to my parents and I can't bear the pain. So the it's you know there is somewhat of a of a guilt in that way and and what you're saying before about the um the responsibility of the siblings which I think that this is uh I have an interesting take on it to add on to your thing is that um children are not responsible of what the siblings are doing. Absolutely not. And you don't have to carry responsibility. If you're a sibling listening and you have a struggling sister or brother or more than one, you should just know that it's not your responsibility as as said and all of us that this is clear. But I have an interesting take on what a sibling could do and maybe even should do which is you have a mission. Hashem chose that you should have a physically ill sister, a brother. Hashem shows that you should have an emotional ill sister or brother. There's something you could do that without carrying the responsibility responsibility though for the parents. There are certain missions you know like a if a person has a they they're being told that you don't have to help us heal your brother and sister. You don't have to carry the responsibility but you could be nice to them. You could be tolerant to them and understand that they're going through a painful period in their life and making them behave a certain way in gashm. So if you could be nice to them and you could always do something extra. I think that that's not giving them responsibility. It's giving them a a mission. I think that every person in the world when they have a mission they are naturally uh securing themsel from falling into the thing that they're that they're doing. So, so let's say um if a person is uh let's say like okay I'm not a but there's something that I learned from them very interesting send out all around the world he didn't tell them they're responsible for they're not responsible to bring back you have you go out you put on film whatever they do that's their missions they're otherem I was always wondering how is it possible that you have hundreds of people going thousands of people living in Wyoming in Mississippi and little children and being brought up in not like communities as ours which are have walls so to speak with Yiddish kitan and they're all strong most of them are strong and very proud yidden why because they're given a they're given a job that you should try to be nice to this give them a mission they have a mission and the mission is making them bulletproof it makes them that they should not only not get influenced from the other from the outside because their job is to influence the outside. They're not getting influenced. There was a uh in in the 1970s there was in the in the Israeli army there was a a lab a lab boy wanted to join the one of the groups and the the general over there said I'm not letting you into my group. He said why not? I don't let any kabatskas join my group. Said why not? He said last time I had a kabatka the whole group became and he's such an anti he didn't want him. So I'm thinking to myself again I don't want my son to go to the army. No that's my I'm not saying what's good or bad for definitely I'm not from that side of the world. But if what would happen my son would end up over there or one of our children I'm not talking about the struggling ones even the so-called regular ones. What would happen? Would he become or the other way around? So what is Kaba doing more than us? Nothing. They're not teaching their kids so much more than we do. We give them very good because the labavat is put in is programmed as a little kid. So I believe I I believe it. I've seen it. I've seen in my own house with my own struggling child and with the other kids is when I told my other kids, you don't have to carry the responsibility, but if you could be a little extra nice and help us whenever you can of doing things that are going to help your sibling feel more at home and feel more loved and accepted and this is going to help them heal is not only my other kids are not being hurt by this kid, they're actually helping and And I want to share this that um I remember one shabas one of my kids that are struggling didn't want to join the shabas ca and um okay didn't want to come down to the meal fine after the shabas we went upstairs and I saw in front of the door of this child there was a tray with all the food from the shabas sea that was the shabas you know those fish there was soup the flash the meat and napkins and doilies and beautiful spoons and cutlery put by the door and I asked my wife, "Did you do this?" She said, "No, we did this." And we asked my son and he was like blushing. He said, "Yeah, I did it." He said, "This sibling didn't come down to Shabas meal. Why should they miss out?" I just felt that let them also enjoy the show whenever they're going to wake up in the middle of the night. Whatever. You know, we know these kids are up the whole night to sleep by day. I I want to I want to and I remember what impact it did on the siblings. So this kid did not feel any responsibility but they felt part of the so then it helps them not only not to get influenced they're actually moving on and doing and doing something that we see it in the is that a pot that is that is while it's cooking it cannot be it cannot absorb when it comes to if it's giving out while it's cooking so it's releasing it's giving out it cannot It's either giving out or taking in. You can't do both. Love that. So, it's the same thing you just said. When you're giving out, you cannot get it. You cannot take in. If you're giving out Yiddish, you're not going to take in something else. But we have to remember, we have to reiterate our kids. You're not carrying responsibility. Tati is doing this. And yeah, if I can add to your words, beautiful. If I had your words about responsibility, I the way I explain it to to teenagers and they usually like it because it's a little out of the box. Um, when it comes to responsibility, we we're used to in in the world that there are things that I am responsible for and therefore guilty, right? And there are things that I'm not responsible for and not guilty. For example, if I have my own child that needs food, a baby, if I'm not going to feed my child food, I'm responsible for this child. It's my baby. If something is going to happen to the child, I'm guilty. Right. Right. I'm responsible. And therefore, if I'm not doing my job, I'm guilty. Then things that I'm not responsible for. If there's a child in in in Uganda that doesn't have food right now, I'm so sorry for that child, but I'm not responsible. I'm not guilty if something's going to happen to that child. Right? That's clear. The confusion happens. There's something in between that there are things that we are responsible for, but we're not guilty. And that is for example, you walk on the street and someone comes over to you and starts hitting you and you push that person away. Are you allowed to push that person away? He's hitting you obviously. Yeah. You give that person a push and he flies, he falls, he breaks his hand, for example. Okay. Who's responsible that that person broke his hand? Yep. I am responsible. I pushed him. Am I guilty? No. We sometimes the word responsibility is connected to guilt and we have to explain that to children that there are many things especially with a struggling sibling. You are responsible to that sibling not but we take the word responsible and we break it in half. You're not responsible. You're responsable. You're able to respond to the need of your brother, your sister, but you're not guilty. Like the story you just said with the shabas fruit which is beautiful. He he wasn't responsible but he responded. He responded. He responded. He saw his sibling is sleeping. He responded to the need of their sibling and prepared food but he's not guilty if he didn't do it. And that is something we need to instill in the in the family that we're all together in this. And if I may add, we're talking about siblings, but even parents are not always responsible. We're also many times we're also only respondable, right? Respond to able many times we can only we can only respond to their needs. We cannot be responsible for them because they're they're not accepting us many times. So we know that. So that's the difference in responsibility. Very nice. Right. But sometimes um I was in Manchester here for the Shatan this weekend and I spoke on Friday to three different groups of siblings and I was listening two of the groups were girls, younger girls and then older girls and then boys and I was listening to them to what they're saying. There's a lot of anger they're angry it's anger it's a feeling it's not logical it's anger towards their sibling that why are you destroying our parents? Why are you destroying our family? There's jealousy. They feel very very jealous because you know here the parent is trying to to heal the the struggling child by by buying them extras and you know whatever they need you know and so they feel jealous although psychedelic they know logically they know that my parents are doing extra because they're trying to heal the sibling but still they still have that jealousy of how come right so I validated that with if someone is on a diet I'm hungry but I don't want to You're still hungry. I'm still hungry. Right. So that being jealous is a feeling. It has nothing to do with our So So we parents, so at the end of the conversation, I told the girls, you should ask your parents that you want to have a conversation with them about their sibling. If your parents didn't initiate, I think it's your message, but our message is to the parents, reach out to the other siblings at least once a week or once a week, once three weeks. And it could be separate. Every kid separate. It doesn't have to be together. It depends on the ages. and say, "I'm sure you want to talk to me about our struggling child at home. I want to explain to you what we're doing and why we're doing this. Certain parts you'll get later. Certain parts I can explain to you now. Do you have any questions? Be vulnerable to me. Tell me that you're angry or you're jealous or whatever it is. I'm ready to hold it with you. I'm ready to listen. I'm giving you space to to share with me what you feel about this whole uh turmoil that happened in the family. And you'll see, you'll be surprised how your your the siblings, the other kids have so much to say. And the moment they're saying it, they're good to go. The moment you validated, they get it. They understand. If they're older than 8, 9 years old, they understand that my parents have to do extras and and and and they'll able to accept it, you know. But conversation, communication, communication is key. Conversation, communication. And it's it's also actual fun. We need to take them out. We cannot forget about all the siblings. The struggling child, we do go out with them more. We try and go out on the on their own. They just have a life, whatever life it is, but they go out every day. The other siblings are in the regular system, school, yeshiva, whatever. And they are they don't get a chance to ear out to have fun. And fun is a basic need. So let me ask you a question that people might ask is how do you know where the line is of spoiling? You know people are always scared of giving extras for the healthy kids you know for the kids and they start getting a where's the balance? What would you say? Very very good question. The first sign between giving to a child or spoiling the child is who is asking for it. If you offer to your children let's go out it's Sunday afternoon we want to take you out. You never spoil a child if you offer them to take them out. Interesting. Because or buying them something or buying if it's coming from you, they didn't ask for it. If it's done in a healthy way, you're not spoiling them. You're giving them their need. They're not getting what you're giving them. They're getting you. They're getting you. And it's never enough. You can never spoil a child. I'm getting too much tatimi. Never. We know that. But what is can be spoiling when they ask from us. If they come to us, we want to go there, we want to do this, buy me this, buy me that, then we have to be careful. Interesting. Because then they're not getting us, they're getting their own needs, whatever they want. Wow. I want to ask you a very difficult question. I'm throwing it at you. Okay, it's payback time. Um, a lot of people have married couples. So, you have a daughter. I got married to a very son-in-law. He's a Ben and then you have a kid at home that's not dressed to write and comes down to Shabasa and his son-in-law or doesn't want to come for Shabas or he comes and he turns around when he makes kdish because he has a issue or you know it could be sometimes and even if not it's it's something that's a value to them and it's hard for them. What do you say to to the siblings the parents also but what do you say to the siblings meaning the the married siblings that that are so angry at why can't I come for shabas to our house our parents don't want to just throw out the kid you know obviously they love them and and what why do you tell the siblings in that in that space okay before answering the question as teached us that we never answer the question because every family is different Every household is different and we're just answering it in con in concept right in general. Okay. And that is that the nature of is someone asks you a question you throw the question back. Right? When my if my son-in-law like your example would ask me it's not fair. They're angry. Why can't we come? I would throw the question back to him and say I understand you. You validate his his feelings. I understand you. you're upset. What do you think? Should I What What should we do? So, you throw back the question. You'll be amazed what they come up with because they also know that throwing this child out is not an option. And telling him to get dressed or her is not an option. It doesn't work. They know it. They're just upset. So, they they are venting their anger in a form of a question. So we're asking the parents to become therapists and just listen and validate rather than giving advice and say do you have advice? Do you have I hear I hear what you say what you're saying is so valid like what do you think? What should we do? Yeah. Someone's asked. Yeah. I want to say like this going out meaningful show right he says when the child is let's say selfharming yes absolutely they come they're very angry they say that No. Why? That's what they have to do. So to help that child, you're okay with someone from the outside that doesn't know you. There's another child, but he's you're okay with that. You don't want to make them, but you're not okay with in your own family. You're not supposed to make you make that because that's your Okay. But but you could preach that to to yourself. The question is how do you preach that to son-in-law or or to someone outside of you? Yeah, sure. Fantastic. Sure. Sure. But but that's only afterwards after after you know it's hard to see it in while it's going through. I think that's we're going in a direction of of of of it's good we could go there but generally what the whole we're trying to to focus on what do we tell the siblings of struggling with the struggling of not being able to come for Shabas and those kind of stuff and how they feel about it. So I think that essentially every person that goes through the distance is becoming a therapist and all of us are some way right we're all realizing that that we need to start seeing things beneath the the surface. It's not just a person misbehaving. Every behavior is a is an outcome of a feeling. So what we're teaching people don't react to the behavior with a behavior. react to the behavior with a feeling by trying to change the feeling of the person. So if a struggling person if someone is not successful in ris in their life that means that they have something in their emotional system is very pained obviously because otherwise if someone is happy their behavior is happy if someone their feelings are fulfilled they're very functional. If someone is not functional in behavior they're they're obviously struggling emotionally. So what are we doing? respond to behavior with an emotion. Respond with love, respond with care. So we also have to do the same method methodology with the siblings. Even if they're healthy at with this aspect, they are hurt and they their behavior is screaming at the sibling or being angry at you or being angry giving advice or whatever they're doing is a behavior coming out of their feeling where they feel that it's not right or it's not fair what's happening to the family. So instead of responding with advice or responding in a in a strong way to their behavior of why you being why you telling you know you respond with emotions and you say I love you too and understand you as well and we are all in the same boat and all of us are struggling and the moment they feel validated they feel understood they're going to be on your team and they be able to do the right to add to your line which is copy paste I'm just expanding it a little bit is And that is something every child can use and every human being can use. Even healthy adults can use it. And that is that we know that that every problem started as a solution. Explain. Okay. I have a problem today. I'm doing something that bothers me. Okay. I'm smoking. I'm not. So that's why I can use that. Okay. Um let's say I'm smoking. Why not? Why not? I have to think about it. Okay. I just didn't get to it yet. Okay. Um, let's say I'm smoking. It bothers me. I would really want to quit. I really don't want I I really don't want to smoke today. But I started smoking now. Today it's a problem. But this problem started as a solution. Years ago, I started smoking when I was a teenager because I something was bothering me and this was a solution to that pain. Got it? So every problem this is in every person's life. We we all have issues that bothered us that we started doing at some point in life. It started as as a solution. And if I'm not going to take away the problem, the reason why I started it, I'm not going to stop. Got it. Okay. So, when we explain that to siblings, I use that with siblings a lot in these series. I we explain them you're why why is my brother doing this? Why is my sister doing it? Makes no sense. As much as you explain to them trauma and the frontal cart, they don't they get it, but they don't. They're kids. Okay. Mhm. Even for for adults, it's hard sometimes. I imagine for sib for for younger children, teenagers. But what they do get, I tell them, look, your brother, your sister is doing is doing it. It is a problem. We know it. But for for him, for her, this is this is a solution for something. Mhm. Hashem, you don't have that. You don't need the solution. Cool. Thank Hashem. But he or she never they're struggling with something and imagine that for them to be is a solution. Can you imagine that? Wow. Yeah. How painful it must be for them exactly that they have to choose as a solution. You don't even understand how it's possible. For them they're so extreme. That is something we need to teach them. Teach them. I think that you want to finish. No, no. I see that um also with sitting with siblings is that very common is that we all born and raised in from homesakos and tomatois and we were told that every person in the world has bak and everything we do every single day we could choose we could choose which skirt to put on and if you want to put on a yama you're comfortable today or not. So they get very confused with us parents the way we deal with their siblings of not judging their choices and we're giving them all the love in the world and they start feeling like what's happening over here what happened with choice what happened with so what I tell usually this the siblings and and and I I want to hear your input as well obviously but I I I want to I want to I learned a lot for you from a lot that was that was an expensive joke you just made. Can I handle it? Okay. Um I think that is every person has in a different place. Some kids are born with jealousy in a higher level than other kids. Some kids are born with anger. You know, we all we all it's like it's like when a baby is born, we see a cute little kid and we kiss them up and we love them. But I say as they grow older, it's like a gift that's being gift wrapped with so many layers of wrapping paper. as they get older another layer comes off and they see oh this kid oh interesting I never this kid has has an anger issue okay you know so we believe but we start our life where we end off our previous gilgal that's what we believe that's the uh the the most the today believe in gilgal totally and and we know that where we left off the previous we start off so this person struggled with with whatever it is they have to continue where they're up to so obviously every child has be here in a different place so for one person uh not to be jealous. It's like it's it's it's another thing and the other kid has to struggle a lifetime to get through it. So we don't know where other people's are where their choices are in different things in their life. So that's number one. We don't know some people are able to learn 15 minutes a day and this is going to be their ticket to Ghana and other people have to learn 10 hours to get the same amount of because we don't know. So to me I don't know where other people's bik is. So to me I only see the good and to me everybody. So that's number one what I tell the siblings. You don't know to them because they went through they must have gone through some kind of very very painful and traumatic event in their life. Sometimes we know what it is. Sometimes you don't know and even when we know we think we know the extent of it and it could be a thousand times worse. Therefore to us we don't know where the but this child is we just love them for who they are. We're trying to help them heal and and hopefully when they're they're going to be uh proud of themselves and they'll have a better confidence and they'll love themselves more they'll be able to get back to their on that level that they're able to do it. So you have your and they have their because they ask many times what's happening like I also want to have a cell phone. I'm not because I want to be a good girl but if my brother has you know it's all this going on. So where's where's the and where's the that's a huge topic the whole topic of I know how much it's fine we have yeah I mean no the topic of endless no but they ask about the siblings what would you say to the to the siblings you know do my siblings have a choice or don't they have a choice if they have a choice why did you have to put on a minus skirt why I mean it's obvious if we understand what trauma is they don't have a choice at the moment that that's what I want you to say say Okay. No, they obviously don't. Unfortunately, when when trauma hits, everything stops. It's a fact. Everything stops. They for every human being. This is not just struggling kids. Even for us, we we know what trauma is. When a person is in a state of trauma, Hashem made so that the whole logic, everything that's logical will not work. So they we actually lose the we actually lose choice. and because of the overwhelm part of it and whatever it is. So and this is agreed upon by all therapists psychologist therapist psychologist something that we telling the parents there's no one who will tell you siblings there's no one there's no there's no one in the world that will tell you that a brain that is a traumatized brain has choice so the question is going to be the obvious question I'm thinking in the head of the siblings listening or even parents is I also went through trauma what happened with me okay or someone else where does that okay this is this That's obvious. That's an obvious question because you can have two people. Let's talk about adults. You can have two people sitting in a car and the car is in an accident. Okay. Both went through the same trauma or both will be in the same elevator. They got stuck overnight on the 90th floor. Okay. One will walk out a wreck traumatized therapy blah blah. And the other one will laugh and have a good joke for the next sh. Okay. What's the difference between the two? Both have the same brain. But their perception, their sensitivity, it's has to do a lot with the neurons, how the brain is wired, that will make a difference how the trauma affects the brain. So it's like an onion, okay? The lay it that has layers and layers and layers and layers. If it only affects you on the outer layer of the second or the third, you can brush it off and move on. It will take a few days. It will go away. If it hits in the deepest in the center then it's trauma real trauma. So it depends on the that question is different. Why is my come on my she had a hard time in school. Me too. Why am I different? Why am I different? You're different. You're not the same. You have a different brain. You're different. You're different. It's it's not the same. You still don't judge. No. Because she has she she's wired differently. Most of these kids, we all know it, are highly sensitive, right? Highly sensitive kids, which they're real authentic and they very authentic. They feel it. They have their antennas are so up and they can sense hypocrisy from a mile away. From a mile away, they can sense what you feel about them, what you think about them. So what does that mean? When that rabbi teacher, let's say in the school says something to the entire class, they get hit the deepest. Yeah. They get hurt the deepest. I remember I just want to give a second. I remember when I was a teenager I was in Shiktana and and there was a mag you shisha and I remember I used to go home from yeshiva to I lived in bar park to go home I used to take off my glasses I went through that stage healthy was good it was good for me it was very good so I remember he was he was preaching to us saying that there was a restaurant across the street a bagel store there's women there and kids and And I took it very very serious and I used to buy over there lunch. I used to cross over to buy lunch. I didn't like the lunch in Shiva. And one day I looked out of the window and I saw him that magi walk into that restaurant. I remember I felt like something in my brain tore like if I could explain like like it was like ouch. It was like I I was I'm nature. I I I I I saw through people of and I couldn't handle I'm lucky I didn't I don't know what didn't keep me off for that many other things I went through but I didn't what that does to a child crazy it's they lose trust they lose trust and it's not illogical it's like so much deeper something happens that right now he can explain himself look I'm married I'm in a different place and you're young teenagers he can explain himself but that's that I didn't see it that But you didn't see you're telling me that I'm expecting you to do the same. I mean that is obviously that that's that is extremely important but the level of the level of trauma that hits a child will depend on their personality on their nature and obviously it is a a child is not a child has a lot around them. A child coming to school has a family behind. So if a child walks into school wounded, they're coming from a war zone that happened at home, right? Will be offended in school a lot easier and deeper and deeper than a child that comes from a healthy stable home with a father and mother strong and healthy. So everything impacts a child. So many things. Yeah. So many things we can beautiful story and he used to make kesh Friday night he had the tish. He had a few hundred people there. He never made kdish until he went through every person sitting around the table of thinking why is this person more than me? He didn't want to get into gava like I'm a reba and I'm like I got it. I figured out life. He said no. He used to think this person does more than me this person that person. And one one day a person walked in and that person was like a real struggling like totally totally totally and the reb was trying to think what am I more than that person what is that person more than me and he couldn't get to anything and he used to do these calculations very quietly but he turned to his son said tell me what could what could I'm struggling I can't make kdish there has to be and then he said ah I get it if I would have the same parents like this person the same genes the same genetic makeup, the same friends, the same childhood, the same everything the same. I probably would have not even come to shul at all. So this this person is way more greater than me. And that's and that's when you made kish and you realize so teaching us that sadik was teaching us that that every person has I guess they understood very well how just time is right. I'll just finish also with you finished. with the vision is an amazing story with his name because he loved every Eid. Um and this goes back and once he m every quiddle that came in he made sure to tell them how much he loves them. Once a Eid never came in to him that challenged him to a way like how can I love this Eid and he was thinking thing then he told his you know what I envy you I'm jealous you're jealous of me said yeah I'll tell you what the tell us that if someone does all the become mitzvah if you would do cha mahave you would be a bigger than I am because you have more avar than I have And if you do only do you'll be so this how he loved him. So the seed never answered the rebre another year you'll be even more jealous going through he was going through but that's the that's the way we have to look at another Eid and especially on our own children that yeah they all do achiev mahav at the endem right and I will say the chie mahav that they do is besides the simple they because they love hashem they their cha comes from our love to When we show them love, they come back. They return cha. They return mahav because we love them. Cha means that I'm healed. Who does our if you're not healed healed, they will they all come back. Mahav going to heal. That's all right. So yeah, we should all be serious. We should know how to do it. We should know how to how to deal with the siblings, everybody else. Yeah. Thank you very much. You've just experienced another Torah class brought to you by tora anytime.com.