R Shimon Gruen EVERY Healthy Relationship Has This

okay talking about the PTSD yeah just go I think it must have all traumatized I definitely an interesting idea of attachment relationships basically but with you supposedly so the title of this class was the healthy relationship and this basically has healthy idea the idea the use of attachment was more or less explaining about children how parents could connect with children and nature to attach the safety seen these-- right something that should always be looking up to parents always be don't not to caregivers together magically obviously once that's in place only then can one go to the next step but let's try to talk more about relations between adults right and but not only manage the truth is that every relationship is really the same in some aspects I was just doing the series workshop about business relationships employers employees managers partners all kind of different with the co-workers and so many of the same ideas develop any relationship drive at the same as it would be individual bags and Vario for same people it's probably another initiative for the same reason i'ma try to cover this so the first half of the equation right she said is attaching the sisters put it the Coptics when it comes to a marriage and um you know the relationship there's always something that you want to be giving the other person in order to talk about the relationship with someone and let me qualify and then clear but the fact saying this because I spoke earlier today but personalities it's not warm president you mentioned someone I was and you see this long time relationship I don't like giving a one-size-fits-all description of something of the world when the reality may not be so there may be people that yourself will get along with and they work on that how does that work the answer is that different people have different languages as they call it different ways of relating and that's why there will automatically be things that will be easier or initiative than the other and that's more unexpected but without going into personalities and how it effects a relationship which talk a little even people differently but always the first part about giving someone obviously with it with someone you want to go through with you want to make sure that you're avoiding your [Music] honor avoid having somebody feel hurt or slightly salted really a offend that so many things you want to avoid in order to have healthy connection and aside from avoiding anything that could damage relationship demonic also be giving the other person a feeling of acceptance law understanding and everything else that's there in order to show someone that you're there for them obviously if that these things are not in place if they're to the other person and hopefully is not there yet then of course relationship betrayal so somebody's not open or a weird how much he has to be careful not to hurt someone how much he has to be arrested in actually giving the other person what they need something that needs making them feel good an emotional and psychological level then of course they didn't even begin I just mention it because that's the first half of any relationship you can't relate to some without being very invested in not hurting them and giving them whatever they need but there's another part of it and you'll see that very often people that are very giving very caring over killing sometimes people do anything for anyone also be struggling in relationship it's not easy to get a call sometimes and especially with manage managers relationship we use some clothes so int applying I'm living so that's not using the phrase on top of each other but very close very easy to not get it wrong sometimes it seems like would be better go at each other I automatically just becomes easier then like it's like most relationships that people that will be successful then almost every relationship in the line and one of the reasons is because the other person who they do we always have the time for you relating to someone at work then you know you have space for yourself or you're thinking to not boys with your also so of course if somebody's on a business trip I've seen this I've seen couples that don't get along unfortunately and the middle of a struggle the little things being difficult with the husband traveling away China for a week and of course the initial initial goodbye is ya go [Music] because yeah and like I said too long the concept what happens is people get married we would talk about the way we assume and then we think the ideal situation is right of course getting married it was first me and you what happened you look like you did it more than a week ago here we go on this and some some reason it looks like you're shedding you're into the dragon under the hood you're committing to someone relationship and it's awesome way to be sounds like it's not anymore right which is two people that are roommates but it's it's we that's beautiful it's beautiful up until it becomes a problem where someone starts talking to themselves again I can't find something he was having a lot of difficulty until you realized that maybe he's not finding himself anymore maybe he's not doing anything that he's interested anymore because he's so dedicated or taken over control that you realize what happened after a few weeks of trying to take care of himself put himself that's not first but just trying to take care of his own interest his wife said you know this is not marriage so what he means not managed well we used to be warm and now he things under our on his wife statement was correct what happens in is very hopeful we associated that idea being warm as living so close together that we really shared everything together which would be beautiful if it was possible what his wife was thinking when she said we were going to do everything the way I want so we were wondering we only had more way of seeing things and wanted things done and always went in one direction and now also realize the problem but that one is never a healthy want that that one was that she was receiving as an ideal situation always went together and did together and only bought something that we both were aware of it was only because it was all going her way and give it a little more understanding it would be just as a bigger mistake let me just qualified would be just as big a mistake the thing to people getting happy together even to your children but they were still two separate people and we just have certain places where we relate to each other right I would take two roommates there on a long-term relationship because whatever reason is too hard to pay rent on two different places and other things and that is just as big a mistake there is something about people getting together people becoming getting married that really does become and that's why it's so important Stan how much is it how much it really is how much of it is not becoming one the general idea the way I like to break it down was that yeah that was it okay still him yeah all right the picture looks good cuz there's a mic and you hear me so it's not a problem right okay the idea of healthy boundaries the idea without two people are living together and really interacting well and sharing a lot in common and really being connected at the same time knowing we're differentiated we'd understand that as long as we are we storm into individuals okay so the way I do I describe it and try to put into proper context and every relationship that needs to remain on every relationship is not only marriage it's even marriage in every relationship in its own way and it's only place in examples there needs to remain what is mine what is yours and what is ours remember can any relationship in order for relationship to succeed they will always need to be that which belongs to me and it's mine that which belongs to you and it's yours and that which belongs to us you know they say the famous joke about the couple that marry and they decide in advance will never fight right it's either gonna be something that belongs to me to decide are you to decide a man's great right what happened was he never found the thing that belonged to him and his whole life he was dealing with things that belong to her they were fought alone it's important to remember what is it that really does belong to someone individually regardless of who is related to and like I said it could be with an employer it could be with a spouse what is it that remains mine even if I'm married and even I'm happily married and even though I'm trying to please my wife and be the best possible husband I could be what is it that remains mine and should remain mine and what is it that I should remember will remain hers even if she's trying to be but you should choices are bother me even if she was taught to do everything the way the husband wanted what really does belong to her and at which point in our relationship will we share something that will really will belong to both of us and neither of us should try to try to snatch that and control that which really does belong to two different people and I could say that dealing with people couples and marriages and all kinds of relationships all kinds of relationships that got to some kind of breaking point or some kind of difficulty I should say you almost always able to pinpoint right away almost always be able to pinpoint where these boundaries almost always in here about a certain part of a story of part of the experience where somebody was violating the other person's boundaries and that's where it got sticky because it's not possible this this can't go it's not possible for relationship to thrive if people not having that much respect for each other so even though the the understanding given for why a certain relationship fails was due to some kind of disagreement or due to some kind of hurt feelings etc and the end of the day you'll start noticing that it came originally from somewhere with somebody violated the other person's matter now let me just rephrase something only because people walked in and I want to be clear about this the amount of how much somebody has to be careful about what's gonna hurt someone else in the mountain how much you have to give someone else in order to relate to them well it's not what we're discussing now that's enormous if somebody's gonna gonna not take care of how much he's supposed to be giving the other person and relate to them in healthy way and that's not a relationship in the first place I'm talking about if somebody is already aware of how much he's supposed to be giving he's invested he's trying he's giving and he's trying to avoid a difficulty miscommunication it's still so important to not overdo that and overdo the emphasis on how much could I give you and how much can I please you because if you overdo it you'll be overstepping boundaries that are necessary for healthy relationship and another thing when we talk about not violating boundary talk about having a healthy balance which is what bounce is all about healthy balance it's not only it is also but it's not only to protect myself healthy boundaries in religion but not only going trying to protect myself and make sure that that was mine belongs to me and nobody takes it away from me it's not only that I'm trying to protect you as well I'm trying to protect our relationship so aside from what's mine and yours theirs and ours and the ours is our relationship belongs to both of us whose definition to belongs would be what a person is supposed to be in control of which I'll explain I'll explain I'm trying to protect our relationship I want that what belongs to both of us which is our relationship should never suffer I want that we relate to each other and in a happy and healthy way and like I said before it could be easier for me than for you it could be easier for you than for me could you have better relationship skills than I do it could be that you're getting it all right and I'm getting it all wrong it could be but at the end of the day if we want to get along it's only gonna be if both of us are consciously aware as much as possible of what's healthy what's healthy in this relationship for whom should what should which area which topic or which idea belong to let me try to explain it a little bit being that no - no two people ever became warm right no if anything one person became two at some point in history right with ammunition I actually made deportivo type he was very good covered together I want some explanation about why he had to be split wouldn't that be the best magic husband-wife will attach like that Siamese and what could be better right can never you can never get into a fight because there's nowhere to run but what happened was they were facing two different directions so even though they were connected in order to be able to be able to see the same thing and get along and want to go in the same direction it had to be split and remain - what that means is that no two people ever really always want the same thing ever you could be married to the person that's so so so much like you and there's so much it's so much of the same background and so much of the same genican so much everything say the same values even the same personality and under the day no two people are ever really alike they said that I mean in business - if two partners have never disagreed and one of them is unnecessary it's not because you need to fight in order to be successful in business it's because two people were literally the same then why do we need both of them so if two people are getting along and two people are married to each other there are still gonna be some differences at some point and very very often I make them believe it's like at some point some differences very open there will be many differences many different areas so order for these two people to get along it's important to remember that it's okay for us to each have our own individuality it's expect the trust to want different things I mean that we want different things and how do we decide who gets who gets what and who decides on what belongs to whom someone explains soon that this is not about being careful not to please someone else if this belongs to you you're a lot of please whoever you want we're talking about control over an issue control over a decision control over something that's important okay so let's start with mine not because it's me but that's that way mine right what belongs to me in this room we're talking now we're in the relationship married right so no the sooner or later I'm gonna let everyone go they don't go in the wrong but we're in a relationship I'm speaking in you listen that's a relationship at a time being what's mine about this relationship what's mine is something it pertains to me so that really does pertain to me example if somebody says you know well Russell just spoke without a hat it looks like you're on your way yeah mind taking it off there's nothing wrong with that and it's fine for someone to express that as well explain but if I got caught off-guard and said oh you know what I want you to be able to concentrate Oh could you take off my hat then the next guy might say you mind turning a little more to the women this enough and next I will say but back off a little I fix the mic before you go on and before you know it I won't have anything that belongs to me anymore chances are I won't come back to speak again everyone needs their own individuality in order to continue you can't go on if things that really do pertain to you are gonna be control there's someone else it's not possible many people try this yeah everybody has to be able to hold on to certain things in their life in order to be a person some people will bust after having that taken away from them Oh after a week okay usually share the roughest you don't you don't hear about the usually and some people it will take a year and some people take seven years ten years I've seen the different kind of people react to this in different ways but almost everyone at some point will not be able to tolerate being controlled and there's no reason someone should be controlled now again the fact that I'm saying that these few things that have to do with what I'm doing it whatever how I'm standing or where I'm talking or what I'm saying I have to me it doesn't really mean that it doesn't affect you I want to be clear about it because I thought somebody would say what do you mean it's not your thing you're the speaker but I'm the audience I'm trying to understand you and it's very difficult it's true but it still pertains to me it still protects to me so often in any relationship people will try subconsciously nobody has any bad intentions and sometimes very with a very good intention trying to actually help the relationship but you can't do that even though it's yours you can't we're that you can't you can't wear that suit for example because I don't like it and you're making me feel uncomfortable so it's not about you it's about me right that kind of manipulation is incorrect and very often people say ok ok I don't want to disturb you want to be nice to you but by doing that I will be putting myself in the spot don't make I wouldn't make myself unconsciously I don't want to mention now we're talking about healthy relationships actually the title of the of the speech was every healthy relationship as this very often this is what will make a relationship wealthy and very often this is what will be needed in a healthy relationship there are extreme situations as we know but sometimes in dealing with something out of the box that has to be dealt with professionally and where this may be a little less relevant what I'm talking about in normal circumstances it's important for somebody to know what belongs to them if huge Nets do what a person is wearing what a person is doing what it's occupied in his own actions and everything has to do with him that's not directly affecting someone else then there's yours ok yours is very similar to mine this is the audience all right let's go back to our example over here if I would start telling people everyone to please put their hands down because it's hard for me to concentrate and speak when one guy sitting like this is one guy saying like that we should make up how we're gonna sit and everybody should please sit this way and that it's wrong it's wrong I could do it and maybe some people would listen because they want to be they want to be here when I'm speaking it's still wrong slowly it's gonna cause a resentment it's gonna cause some kind of bad feeling it's gonna it's gonna mix with people's emotions not realizing what's happening I'm losing mine dividual I can't sit like I want how can I concentrate if I'm not sitting the way I want except these are also the examples but they're just to bring out and the idea then there's hours in relationship right if I decide whatever reason that because I just had to place a child and I'm very hot and we should conditioner all the way to the highest and I'm gonna hope that people are okay with it right because that's what I need now but I'm speaking but the temperature in the room belongs to both of us the temperature in the room belongs to both of us it will be incorrect it would be inappropriate impolite even if people would let it happen as a matter of fact something that's it happen it's the same problem as what I'm doing I shouldn't be controlling something that pertains to all of us and nobody should be allowing that to happen and if you allow it to happen then it's not gonna it's not it's no kiddush if later in my speech I say you know what it's asked me to concentrate I think we should turn off the lights it'll be easier for me to get my thoughts out and all of a sudden I was writing notes we'll have a problem it's wrong but what made me do that what made me decide that it's okay for me to turn of the lights and I speak here without asking anyone if it's okay it's cuz when I turn on second isn't nobody left nobody said anything just so often what happens in the relationship is when some of these boundaries are violated not only not only are you doing something that may hurt you not only are you doing something that may hurt someone else you're actually promoting something negative that could start slowly slowly gaining root and continue in a very unhealthy direction and it usually doesn't stop at one point what happens is when somebody tells you you might stand it this way yeah and that and this and it's slowly sometimes it takes years months or years or more and it slowly starts developing that something very unhealthy and this is what unhealthy relationships are very often about very often even in a relationship where two people really do want to make each other feel comfortable and they they're trying they're giving the complimenting emotionally even financially they're helping each other but somewhere along the line somebody is being controlled and that something is gonna cause a lot of difficulty in the relationship just the other day I got a message on my on my voicemail from somebody who heard a class on business relationships he told me that you know he didn't realize why he was so resentful going to work every day he liked his job he liked this boss he thought productive he didn't know what it was and after hearing a little about this he realized that when he would stand there and he was supposed to take measurements and his boss told him you know you might hold him at coffee and he would go out do some air and he was left standing for half-hour of coffee he wasn't hired to do that he was being controlled that wasn't part of what his relationship was about there are things that slowly slowly as somebody feels that their boundaries being violated they get more and more resentful and it damages the relationship he's not helping anyone some of you think about tolerating a certain amount of abuse I want to use the word abuse but by tolerating something wrong that somebody is trying to control something belongs to you you know you being Nevada they call it it's nice to admit this now of course the point is not to fight over it and get hostile and angrier and show the other person and I'm not gonna let this happen it's that screaming of course not but in a healthy relationship we understand what belongs to me what belongs to you and what belongs to us in a marriage for example right the husband's way of weari doubles for example you'll see this often a wife with a lie like we need Amin in this rule actually I have a few reasons why it pertains to and sometimes it does sometimes does but it most often if you don't like something I do but I like what I do then it's very important that we both acknowledge that maybe I should be doing what I want I'm not here to hurt you and if I'm doing it in a way that is hurting you then we could discuss that obviously but maybe what belongs to me should belong to me if I like her suit or something that I'm wearing and you don't like it is that a reason for me to take it off and me what you want maybe it's a reason for me to tell you you know what it does not to be this one I have three that I like tell me which one you like this I'm accommodating but has to belong to me and that will make me remain a happy and healthy individual and let me relate to you in a happy and healthy way as opposed to if I'm being controlled and I get resentful know something I'm not saying either I would do and I don't like being around you then how healthy could our relationship really be and sending is the other way around whatever the wife is doing right she has her things that belong to her maybe it's her kitchen maybe she dresses maybe something about her she bathes the kids but I don't like it I know but maybe this doesn't belong to her now like I said before we could always try to come up with reasoning why this really also belongs to me not talking about anything hello Carrasco fer issue which could be dealt with partying over somebody who's competent but just a healthy part of knowing what belongs to who it's healthy but how could you like a different flavor ice cream than me right everyone that's ridiculous I'm me and you're you so if you say but that you're insulted by the fact that I'm wearing something that you don't like that's wrong it's not me be insulted about a certain uh computer to try to make me feel guilty for doing some the iodine right you don't feel guilty when you do something that you like in most cases in most cases someone who's trying to control the other is not allowing the other person to control them it's very hopeful a one-way street and it gets lopsided and then this our our right in a marriage I was very simple it's our home right we live in a house together it's our children it's our approach to how we're running a home or kind of home and that's something that one of two people are controlling that again is a violation of boundaries this is a barrier belongs to both of us neither of us right we're not playing with because it's not just Lonnie neither was I looking to grab the opportunity and take control over something that belongs to two people and if one is doing something without considering what the other person would want that is very unhealthy and únicos resentment and it's incorrect now again obviously you know there are things that we were talks about what belongs to his decision we're a couple to live and things like that I'm not I'm not talking about it I look at aspect you may be allowed to control certain things if you want you may be allowed to give your opinion and a force it regardless not someone else at once but if you're looking to build a healthy and happy relationship there has to be some mutual understanding what is it that belongs to me what does it belongs to you part of it belongs to me is not only what I'm gonna do and not only one the way I want to conduct my in my own way of my own life part of it is things that I can't tolerate right if you're doing something that's making me tolerate something then I should be able to speak up and say you know I can't tolerate that hey what doesn't matter it contradicts something we just said again if you're doing something right and I don't like it and I have to tolerate it so who's controlling who now if I let you do what you want then basically I'm being controlled because I'm being hurt but if I control it because I'm controlling you again so that it's very important to understand and distinguish between what's really mine on yours the idea of not controlling someone else we mentioned again it could be elaborated around but I don't want to talk at length about this is the simple idea about people making wrong decisions then this idea that's so often what what someone's doing and is affecting someone else doesn't necessarily have to affect someone else the fact that you want to go to a semca and that's gonna leave me babysitting maybe there's another way to do it maybe and so often we get black and white which is something that that's also very unhealthy in a relationship when it looks like there's only two ways to do it it's my way or your way it's not correct a husband shouldn't be telling a wife I don't let you go to the same car that you want to go to cuz that's yours but why shouldn't tell them you must now babysit because I want to go because that's mine maybe I don't know if we could really understand this and relate to each other and a healthy way and say you know what you're going to the same place yours my going to my share is mine what could we do to make sure that both of us are control of what we want to do how could we work this out and come up with a maybe a third solution that's gonna make both of us not have to be controlled or tolerate something that we don't want and when when relationships are healthy and this is understood and a couple and I'm here there are couples that are both going to hear this idea I willing to understand what's mine what's yours how can we both let each other be in control of each other that's very healthy let me let me take it one step further when it comes to expressing myself right I want to express how I feel about something right let's say for example that I want that even before I want to turn on the air-condition real high to be very cold now in the room right me to go do it would be incorrect because it involves everyone I would have to look around and make sure I was okay with it like most of us and and respect what everyone wants cause it belongs to both of us but if I say you know what I can't go to another condition so I'm gonna have to start sweating now why is it why can i express myself expressing myself in a healthy way not in the way that's gonna hurt anyone obviously the express myself in a healthy way of saying what I want what I would appreciate what would mean so much to me everything about me not about you right it's not about why can't you guys be okay with it know what expressing myself and saying I'd like to the ignition to go on so I'm very hot now is it okay with everyone that's fine and if I can't do that I'm being controlled so often in relationships we don't realize that so much of the control and so much of the boundary violation that I was talking about is not so much in who's actually forcing who to do what it's not that we we were thinking along in a travel tone or not and we thought about it and one of us one and the other one was controlled it's not always about decisions and actions and things that are practical and technical sometimes it's just about a way of thinking if I have my opinion and I have something I want done do I have something I believe in and I can express it at home I have to wait till I go to school but to my friends and yeah I could say what I want but at home I don't know it's not safe to say something and then I'm going being controlled I'm being I'm in an environment I'm in a relationship where I'm controlled I don't have the right to express myself it's not a matter of freedom of speech or not it's simply something that's gonna suffocate someone when he feels that he's not in a legibly heat where he's free to feel and think and express himself and say what something's bothering him and even if there's something that's bothering him is about the other person if whatever reason I have an issue speaking now when people are writing notes I shouldn't say could I hopefully stop writing notes I can handle it that would be wrong but if I wouldn't be able to say if it's possible did the Stoughton when you're right notes maybe just a word here and there but if it's possible I'm not gonna be upset if anyone does but I just want to say what will be easier for me and you retain my concentration that's fine and if I can't do that then I'm intimidated something's wrong now it's okay if it's for a half hour speech and I'll bite my tongue and hope that the next time you know I'll talk is on Shabbos nobody will be riding that's fine but but it's important understand that in a long-term relationship like marriage in a long-term relationship we've tried to actually build a connection understand the other person be close to the other person care about the other person how the other person care about you there has to be a certain amount of openness which comes from healthy communication you can't communicate in a healthy way if you're gonna be controlled and suffocated and be afraid to say something now of course if the thing that you're gonna say is about the other person so there you go you're hurting someone's that would be incorrect but not be able to say something about yourself that's wrong and in almost every relationship people sometimes wonder how do I say something I want to say this but I can't why can't you because if I tell her that she's doing something wrong she's not gonna handle it why would he tell her she's doing something wrong why are you here to tell her what she's doing why are you explaining to him what he doesn't understand why don't you talk about yourself talk about yourself is part of mine this forehead boundaries his mind as yours and ours what's mine is explaining myself doing myself controlling myself and expressing myself and if you could do that in a healthy way we're not hurting anyone that's called a healthy relationship if you're able to do that in a way that the other person understands that's only me and even if somebody tells you but how could you say that and with that they're trying to suffocate you with that they're trying to choke you and and make sure it doesn't happen in because they don't like when you say what you want cuz it may make them feel guilty that they're not doing something the way you want that's fine you can still say it again the one you could and if you don't say it again and there you go you're being controlled again that's very important to understand and this is everywhere this with parents and children and healthy relationships this is in marriage and this is with your next-door neighbor this we connected on able right if it comes to the garbage who's taking up the garbage right and you do it because you're afraid of your neighbour or you're afraid to tell him that it was his kids that threw the garbage on the lawn and therefore you're gonna go pick it up you be in control chances are that person will take advantage of you so it's not again it's not about protecting yourself which is what I started with is are protecting your relationship if you want to be relating to someone in a healthy and a happy way in a long-term way you're gonna have to learn what belongs to you it's not possible for people to be in a long-term close relationship and both be happy both being happy if this is not that is not respective and most often even when it looks like one person is happy but the other one is not it's not really that way one person may be getting more control of the situation one person may be having things go his or her way it doesn't mean they're happy it's not have nobody's happy with that nobody feels good when when they're controlling everything going on around them and people are dancing around them on tiptoes it doesn't feel good you don't feel like you married anyone as a matter of fact so often the one who's actually violating the other person's boundary is the one who's gonna pull that person for help later because something's wrong it's lopsided it's not healthy the posix says then with this again it's late I don't want to keep it on too long it can only be like sugar in order for it to be sugar that has to be desired in order for you to want to get along with someone there has to be a certain mutual respect of boundaries and even before the other person understands it you can understand it on your own you could be protecting your boundaries you could be protecting someone else's boundaries you could do it in so many different ways and even parents with children talk about little children when everything is fine there's no reason for a parent be controlling a child right we just heard about that micromanaging why are you doing that it is but I don't like when he does it and therefore so you don't like it you're not you're not relating healthy you want your kid to love you you want you get to trust you or I could understand you respect what's his I make sure you respect what's yours and if he can walk into your bedroom and wake you up whenever he wants and you think it's being very nice they just go along it's fine then you're losing your boundary and all sudden you're gonna start feeling resentful and maybe want to go to slam a door shut it has to be healthy in order to be sure lever has to have some heavy life on the ravish'd how often we should understand it and implement it and happy and open