R Akiva Eigers Question on Tosfos' Use of "Smoch Miut L'Chazaka" and the Answer of R Shmuel Rozovsky

this Torah class is brought to you by Torah anytime.com okay morning uh and everyone should be this week we're going to examine three on um I really could not choose and I did not I couldn't I couldn't uh give up on any of them so maybe we we'll try to go through them maybe maybe in a way it's the opposite of I but nevertheless we're doing we're going to start with the Su by the two the G saysa right the Miss said that if a man is miim a woman and then she turns out to be pregnant and there's a kid and the kid might be from the deceased the kid might be from this man he's is basically so the is uh you lived with her B because she may have already had a child and therefore the mishna says you're to bring in says ask why don't you follow the RO and most women give birth after 9 months so Ro says he is Ben and in that case you should you lived with because there was no het to live with her because the deceased had a child so the gar says back the r that's what R said to so rman says our wives give birth after seven months so R said your wives are the the Roy of the world what your one wife is the Roy of the world so yesterday on chabas we uh we had a nice in this listen to this Michael you're gonna like this the says that when he went to Shak he made an announcement who wants to be my wife today now went to Shak quite often that was so it means he had he taka had many many many wives taka was married who knows over the course of his life he was married to a few hundred people so is not just saying my wife he's saying our wives you know that's a he had a big uh example size anyway so the gar says said as follows most women give birth after 9 months but anyone who gives birth after 9 months you would recognize the Vlad after 3 months and this woman you did not recognize that she was pregnant so therefore her Ro is weakened and therefore in all probability uh he the child is Ben and therefore you should uh that's why to which thear says if every single woman who gives birth after nine months the Vlad is recognizable after 3 months so then we know for sure that it's a and in that case you should be completely putter what's the ash tal even to which the gamar says no you're right most women give birth after N9 months but the majority of women who give birth after 9 months are it's recognizable that they're pregnant after 3 months so this woman it wasn't recognizable after 3 months so it's sort of 50/50 on the one hand the majority of women give birth after nine months but out of that majority most of the women are recognizable so it ends up being 5050 comes tus take a look at T says okay you have one Ro saying that the child's born after nine months from the first one however that Ro is weakened based on the fact that her pregnancy was not recognizable says to what about kazaka why are we ignoring kazaka over here what about the fact that says the woman was she didn't have a child so kazak should say that the child was born from the second one so let's say rewrite it's 5050 should say the child was born from the second man so kak should pass in the suff and if you want to know from since when do we use kak we use on by we said that uh the woman has that she's why don't we establish her that she's and this way you're not having and in that case the second Vlad we said the second Vlad is a suff why is the second V right why why the second one should beer because of that gives birth after seven months on the and now theak now listen to this take there is a mi yeah there is a mi that gives birth after what after seven months take that Mi of the Mi of women that give birth after 7 months appendage it to the kazaka and that will wakon the RO and then basically like this you have one that most women are recognizable after 3 months that's saying that the second vlot is ker that's saying that you're not there's nothing weakening that R the other R is most women give birth after 9 months but a don't the says that the child came from the second one she because she's so take the of women who don't give birth after n months appendage it to theak that she is when you have aak supported by that will weaken the that most women give birth after n months and then so you have basically the RO that most women give birth after 9 months is weakened the r that most women are recognizable after 3 months is not weakened so you have a strong R against the weak RVE so the strong R should win basically tus is using the of there is a m of women who give birth after seven months attach it to the that she's and that should um diminish and weaken the RO that most women give birth after 9 months so you have a weak R against a strong r that most women are recognizable in their pregnancy after 3 months says earlier on in we consider even if the was pregnant we still utilize that she is Pres L what do you mean what about there is isn't there a r most women become pregnant and give birth so doesn't that mean we should establish her from the first one in other words tus is saying what we do have a strong R though that she's pregnant from the first one because isn't there a r most women become pregnant and give birth says no there's no at all to say that a woman that stayed with her husband for many years and they didn't become pregnant and then their husband died ah most women become pregnant give birth cuz this woman was married many years with this guy and they never had kids later on we say it but in our situation it doesn't make sense to say it so the bottom line is tus has a Kasha and he has no answer the question is on the one hand you have a r a strong r that this kid was for sure born from the second husband because if he was born from the first husband why didn't she look pregnant why didn't the Sher figure out that she was pregnant the figer had no idea she's been looking she's looking she's looking and she can't tell so that's a strong Ro on the other hand there's a ro most women give birth after 9 months but that Ro is weakened why cuz Mi don't give birth after n months and says that she's so we should utilize the principle to weaken the RO that most women give birth after nine months and and so that Ro is weak and the RO that most women her pregnancy is recognizable is strong so the strong R should beat the weak Ro that is the ofes whose child it is because I understand AR you say arve Okay most most women you know but when you're talking about Kakak is more about ownership that we say okay it goes since you were the original owner so the kazak is is that stay by you but when we're talking about whether this who this child comes from how does dictate who the child is coming from so there there's something called says that if somebody had a status of iser or of he we assume that status continues so this woman was in a status that she is M she was married to a guy they didn't have kids so we should assume that status continued for as long as possible it's called the used this exact that when you're not sure about something presume that if she was once that that status should continue so therefore if that if she was once M and now you have a question about a kid who perhaps disrupts her assume the kid came from her the Y the second husband in order to continue the her presumptive status that she's m that's to Kasha that Isha there is an amazing re the first part of RAR I'm I'm just going to do as a side point but we're going to focus on R's Kasha his second question the first question I'm doing for personal reasons because he brings in rer says this is why follow the strong that most women they recognizable after three months and the other r that most women give birth after nine months is weakened by joining the kazaka with [Music] the leaves this question as a says in my impoverished State I don't understand this question because even those who hold that we utilize that is only that is only it's not 50/50 you only you know who holds it 50/50 R mayor r as says in many places in that is he utilizes the principle of but everybody else only uses it you don't use it so how in the world will the adjoin with the to say you're Potter from an you have Ro that says you are you did a ro says the the child is on the first um woman you want to use a and join it up with the the is nothing and right because then you just left with a against we know there's a rule if you have a child near we're not for the so says maybe is that this is has to fit in as well um that's only like says and so reaber feels that the only way to explain tus Kasha is if tus is asking in who subscribes to but the do not subscribe to but here is reha you with me you see where my arrow is says and it's even more difficult to me why did to ask the question listen to How to is asking it to is asking the RO that most women give birth after 9 months is weak because some don't plus you have a that weakens theak and on the other hand you have a you have a ro that most women their pregnancy is recognizable after three months so you have a strong Ro against a weak Ro should have asked the question much more straightforward why ask simply forget the because if you forget the Mi forget R I have aalha I have Ro says most women give birth after 9 months on the other hand Ro says most women their pregnancy is recognized after three months so it's Ro versus Ro and what do you do when you don't know what to do you know why this is a better question cuz this question is not only in raer if you're going to ask oh I have a strong that women are recognizable after 3 months and the other kak the most women give birth after nine months that's weakened because there's a and aak against it what do you mean that means you're using the principle of only holds so says you have to be only in say should have asked the question and formulated it more cogently T should have asked you have two Roes that are budding heads over here you have one Ro most women give birth after 9 months on the other hand you have AR that most women who give birth after N9 months they're recognizable after three months and This Woman's not recognizable so you have two RS clashing what do you do when you have two RS clashing follow kak what does kak sayak says she's that iser should have formulated the question in a way that the question is not only in the world of R the question would be so R rovski in the sh I didn't have a chance to put on the sheet he says that apparently tus did not ask the question this way because the same way do you remember we had an when you have two a versus two maybe cannot because is a and it's the ultimate B soak cannot add any and any tilting and inclination when you already have versus by the by the same token if you have R versus R also kak is not going to talk why because we already have the ultimate um R Ro is also a much stronger form of evidence thanak is so when you have versus cannot be therefore tus has no choice but to formulate his question as follows the RO that most women are recognizable after three months is strong however the RO that most women give birth after nine months is weak because you have a that don't Plus theak so that is but to say between twoes that we don't say by the way did we have such a when we did the of M the exact [Music] same where do we have that [Applause] where did we have barya so did we have the like that and Al by bar remember this let me just check and then we're going to move on to the next one anyone remember no and Sim wanted to say that by maybe Ro cannot be M either okay okay that's that's the first offering in other words we have toha say only works in the world of Mayor that should have formulated the question forget say versus and and you have's answer that Ro cannot that can cannot be between two Rives that is the first offering of today youve just experienced another Torah class brought to you by Torah anytime.com