Professor Daniel Tsadik, The Origins, Isolation & Revolution Explained

professors i think thank you so much for joining us on the show thank you so much for having me so it's it's really interesting we're talking about iran we're talking about the persian community and we're doing it right like this is thematic we're like coming out of shushan i guess we don't want to leave the story um and when you think about the the story the history for those who don't have any background in it we have no idea about the community we don't really have a sense of outside purim really what's taking place since so share with us a little bit about you know the persian community when did the jews first arrive in iran and sort of how did that community develop so the jews lived in iran from tommy memorial basically we have some references to uh in our sacred texts right in the hebrew bible references to uh the exiles of jews by kings of uh certain kings of assyria ashore to certain places one of those places is media madame the cities of media we're talking about the eighth century before the common era bc so that's apparently the first reference to some jews living in those places some scholars actually argued that a better starting point is that of the babylonian exile 586 bc where the jews were excited to bevel babylonia iraq now these iraq rulers on in 538 when cyrus the great the persian stars the great courage in in the tanakh is known as courage let allow jews to return back to zion some of them indeed ended up moving back to zion to earth israel the land of israel however others remained in babylonia and still others moved towards what we call today what we refer to as iran so that might be another starting point we're talking in any event about one of the oldest jewish diasporas in the world what has been the relationship between the jewish community and the the host countries over the centuries like how far ha have they advanced throughout the years and the ups and the downs right so as we're talking about more than 2000 years of residence in iran so obviously there were good days and bad days and indeed ups and downs and vicissitudes no doubt about that under different dynasties different kings of a given dynasty i can refer to some examples if you if you wish for instance the drink is a sasanian times for instance 226 ce to 650 more or less 6351 so there is some good kings righteous kings as the jews would call them referring to the jews in a very positive way oh and some of them even having a some franchise with the certain jewish rabbis as indeed documented in the babylonian talmud at the same time we know about certain cases of where jews would be persecuted it would be seen as heretics and so on and so forth and this refers only to sassanian times we can move on and speak about islamic days islam arrived in the uh in the in iran in 651 more or less mid 7th century and from that time on islam is the state religion for the most part for the most part this is the state's religion under islam indeed jews fared variously to begin with the jews would be seen as second-class citizens by islam and this concept is known as protection they would be granted the protection of the of the government the muslim authorities at the same time this protection would be granted to them as long as they follow certain laws conditions limitations number one they would have to pay more taxes than the rest of the than the larger society muslim society this pertains more christians as well by the way they would have to somehow distinguish themselves in in a certain type of attire certain rulers certain dynasties some would sometimes force the jews to wear a certain distinctive type of attire i had a funny hat obviously if you wear a weird hat people would would be able to recognize you and then stone you spit on you etc etc they would also be not not be allowed to establish no synagogues only those synagogues that were in existence at the rise of islam mid seventh century would be allowed to be renovated officially on the ground there would be you know different things happening in some cases we know about new synagogues also established but online this concept of the vemma would mean subjugation subjugation of the non-muslim believers in one god people of the good the people of the book jews were included in this particular case i can move forward to the beginning of the 16th century when a new dynasty took over iran the safavid dynasty that was a shiite dynasty and shiite islam would be imposed on iran from the 16th century on some unique characteristics pertaining to shiite islam is the concept of impurity impurity of non-muslims this concept is known as najasa in arabic or nija assad in persian meaning uh certain figures satan i'm sorry certain entities including uh non-muslim believers are seen as impure whose touch defies the muslim believer we know about certain cases when shiite religious scholars shared o la ma it would not allow the people of the book jews included to go outside in rainy days snowy days because in shiite islam water transmits pollution so if the water touches the jew and then touches the shia the shiite would be would be defiled as such all that would mean one thing it would mean isolation basically within uh iranian society they would be seen as a outcast in many respects as one scholar refers to them how does if you're if you're consistently second-class citizens doesn't that doesn't the infrastructure not support population growth isn't there isn't there a um an impetus to leave and impetus to assimilate so how does the persian community stay this strong for that long right so indeed some of them left iran we know about that some some jews left iran at the same time interestingly enough some some other jews did arrive in iran i believe that the secret of survival is basically their adherence very strong adherence to judaism this despite all you know odds and pressure and sometimes even massacres and tough periods there were good periods no doubt but despite the tough periods jews decided to remind remain a jewish to stick to their jewishness i believe that it has something to do with the fact that they did have a contacts with outside world meaning as opposed to what scholars use scholars and the common wisdom is viewing iranian jews as remote as distant as cut off isolated segregated from the rest of the world worst of world's jury i would argue when i developed this issue in one of my recent books i believe that they were not as kind of as people may think that's an amazing phenomenon how the adherence to one's faith tradition in internally in addition to the recognition that you're not alone in the larger sort of jewish population um those are tremendous ingredients i think if we explore them in terms of of really what is the secret to our our success in exile in general but things started to change in the 70s and if you can take us through that a little bit you know what happened in the 70s that led to this i guess i would i i would know it as a bigger exodus i don't know if it is or not i guess i would ask you you're the expert like was there something that took place that led to a normal than usual exodus out of iran um that really created all the different persian communities across the world today right so i would take you a little bit back you know to the 19th century early 20th century iran like some other places in the region goes through modernity meaning the pallavi regime ruling over iran between 1921 25 to 1979 basically uh emphasized uh nationalism iranian nationalism more than anything else and it came at the expense of islam meaning the pallavi the regime the shahs the last shah everybody knows is of the he was the second ruling king of that dynasty they emphasized the fact that everybody living in iran speaking the persian language residing on that soil is part of one nation the nation of iran as such he would find his roots the nation's roots earlier than uh islam in pre-islamic days and all that was good for the jews and other minorities because from now on uh you know a jew could be a jew nobody would bother him the the shah the king the ruling authority didn't really care much whether you're jewish or christian or muslim whatever as long as you are part of that community and you are contributing to the economy etc etc in many respects that was a major window of opportunity for jews and jews increasingly participated in that window of opportunity that was an era of uh a major economic boom it was a myth i guess in many respects uh uh too fast of of any common economic boom leading to the revolution in 1979 but jews were able to really partake in that window of opportunity they did contributed to their to the economy of their uh of their own country and became successful all that was you know abruptly really changing uh in 1979 i guess it was not as abrupt as one may argue from the early 70s iran goes through major crisis economic crisis more than anything else a democratic major demographic problem was also taking place and all that ended up and many other reasons which normally can already elaborate on right now led to the revolution there were there was a variety of groups within the arena within iranian society that felt that the shah should be uh overthrown and that was indeed what was about what what took place for some two years or so there were major demonstrations strikes etc etc leading to the uh downfall of the shah pahlavi shah and this led not immediately to a major move of jews out of iran uh earlier on the situation was not completely clear obviously the fact that khomeini the leader of the uh revolution was known as not how should i say that not necessarily as a very pro zionist person he was anti-zionist anti-israel every now and then coming up with the anti-jewish statements uh at the very beginning of his most significant book most well-known book first page he speaks about how the jews fought against muhammad back in the seventh century and from that time on it would develop this theme later on from that time on there they keep on bothering islam and muslims one of the most significant figures in the jewish community in iran habibiel vanayan that was his name a major philanthropist the originator of the plastic industry in iran a very wealthy person that gave money to jewish causes to muslim causes a very iranian figure who was not in iran during that time decided to come back to iran some some people say that he was told you better stay outside iran but he said nobody's going to touch me i'm fine i did nothing et cetera i arrived in iran and he was executed wow yeah he was executed a few reasons were given he was seen as a zionist he was seen as a uh helping the american imperialism and so on so forth for the jews that was a very bad sign if he could be summarily executed without any any real reason without anything really substantial they could all uh get in trouble and following in the next few years or so many many jews left iran yeah it's a long story and it's in many ways in many ways it's our story of the jews being in exile and coming to an end and there's a i hope a happy ending you know in in israel uh i last question know that your time is busy it's it's interesting as i'm hearing you speak you know i come from interesting background you know my father's from syria my mother is from moonkoch um and in both of those scenarios the the the move to america if you will came earlier than the persian community 1979 is fairly recent um and so what's fascinating is that as we stand here today there is a very str i would i would guess there's a very strong connection to iran you know moon kach is already in its third you know there are people that are that are that are preserving the culture of munkache in america very well but still the the people that came from moonkoch are they have grandkids they've got great grandkids right so when you think about touching down from a country and you've got three or four generations from you the the diaspora experience in that community is much different than those that came 30 years ago it's just a fascinating concept i don't know if you if you feel that that the oldest exile if you will is actually in many cases across the world the newest right and and the most connected to that source i don't know if if that phenomenon has had any implications i just wanted to note it no i sympathize i understand what you're saying it sounds yeah yeah this is it they are very much still those who moved outside iran you see them they are still in many respects very iranian is sticking to their the language you simply you have only all you have to do is go to either great neck or los angeles and some other sentence and see them they stick to their language they are proud of their iranian heritage at the same time they are very very jewish and they don't forget that and they never forgot that it's an amazing thing well thank you professor for spending the time it's so fascinating one of the beautiful parts about this show is that we really have the opportunity to show each other aspects about each other that we just don't know and i know that from all the different backgrounds that we are blessed to be a part of as a jewish people we've gained a lot learning from you today and we thank you for your time thank you so much thank you very much thanks so much for watching for more content like and subscribe and be sure to tune in live every thursday at 8 pm eastern at the shabacho.com or right here on youtube [Music]