Pesach: The Saga of Rabban Gamliel and Rav Elazar ben Azarya...Reenacted in the Haggadah

this tour class is brought to you by torahanytime.com so everyone's expecting us to move on to parishas but no due to popular demand I'm going to tell you something on the hagada chopesa something original that I was thinking about over the last days of pesach trying to develop it trying to develop but I don't believe anybody ever said this before could be for good reason nobody ever said it but um definitely it's definitely original that that I'll give you that that's for sure um so before I forget it I figured let's see if we could develop it and let's go to Rob him I think uh I think it's something you'll remember okay I want to discuss a story that took place in the hagada and uh connected to one of the most famous Camaros in chass okay so everybody knows a famous story maisa brabilia okay we have five tanam five of the most prestigious tanoam yahushua was uh reviews then Azaria will see what he was he may have been the racism you could have us so the Akiva was one of the greatest of all the tanoam who ever lived and they're all sitting in benebrock and the question that hit me was there's one tana who's conspicuously absent from this uh say there I realize you know of all the tanoam probably the most important Tana of the era for some reason wasn't there um wasn't invited wasn't in the neighborhood and that is the Nasi himself Robin gum Leo where's rum gum Leo why is rum gum Leo night at this say that why where was he the truth is you could look through the tarsh about Pat we basically only have two reports of sadharim and the whole body of the mishnam and so on and that is we have one more report about to say there and interestingly at this report speaks about the Seder of none other than Ram gamliel himself yeah just say there's what Okay so we have one other report of uh we have one other report I would say there we have a toy septum says you can't eat after you eat the Africa tomorrow you can't eat potato chips popcorn pretzels ah and then the two softer continuesla person has to be involved in learning the halaj of pesach the whole night even between you and your son a Filipino Masa there's a story was the kanimous they were involved in learning the halachas the whole night I'd cross together okay it's very interesting why didn't Ram gum Leo join revelation of terrifying interestingly while they were misapper because Ryan which presumably means they discussed the narrative in the storyline rongamiel discussed which is also of note let's talk about another uh um passage from the Haggadah and this is also a mission at the end of the first pack of um behold I am like I'm 70 years old I never that to say you'd see us in the time at night now what does it mean so the bartender says I can never Prevail doesn't mean I never merited he did have the Merit that was his opinion and he followed it every night of the Arab of um Allah recalled and commemorated he was never able to beat in an argument and convince them and give them a winning argument that they in fact should agree to him that they should say it's yes no time in the night so why was he never Victorious apparently he was never Victorious until he said this mishnah what changed when Elizabeth said I'm seven years old and I was never until today what happened on that day that he was finalized so I think and I believe that the key to understanding all of this lays in the rambams Gerson the rambam has a very unique your son hagada which really turns the whole hagoda on its head and that is if you look at number five in the Ramones gear sun hagada and the rambam appears at the end of his brings down my sub-rebulazar which is uh the story in um that we have in that in the hagada says the rambam the rambam is going race in the mishnah and brachice not all my revelation Amar loham Revelations said to them so what does that do for us meaning we're going to the rambam at that fateful say there on that fateful night when they were misapper beats yes on that very night when Revelation was there and ravishua was there and Azaria was there and rabi Akiva was there and Reptar film was there got up and he said you know it's like I'm 70 years old and not until tonight was I ever able to give a winning argument and defeat to explain why we say it's yes um in the night which is very odd because why would Azadi have gotten up at that Savior and set a random halacha that's not relevant to the night of pesach instead saying which is relevant to every night of the year but the rambam learns that on that very night Revelation and Azaria got up and he told the assemblage by the way I was never able to be victorious in this in this topic until this evening ah so if according to the rambam rebelism in Azaria at that say there said I'm as if I'm 70 years old and I was never to say excuse me until tonight that gives us a completely different perspective on the Haggadah because if it happened if at that say the rebels of nazariah told the other rabbis that I was never Zucker to say it's on summer night then that means that this story of the rebels took place on the faithful day the Robin gamlia was deposed darangam Leo was asked to find a different job was asked to sell used cars and Revelation Azaria took over as the Nasi oh if that was the day that rangalia was deposed now we understand why Ram gamlia wasn't at the Seder because he didn't quite get along with review Yeshua because this was already the third time that when gamble act in a very authoritative way to abhishu and the people couldn't take it anymore so they asked him do us a favor we were high we're starting prabhas in about three minutes so maybe that would explain why Ram gum Leo wasn't there when gam Leo wasn't there because it was on that day their blessed and Azalea became the Nazi by the way we're going to examine in a moment the gemara brachi says how do we arrange people who are sitting around the table who is the most important person where is the most important person sit in the middle the next important on the right the next on the left the next on the right right the next on the left left so let's go back and read the mishnah myself on this list he's in the middle what's he doing in the middle he's the youngest one there why is he sitting in the middle you know why because that was the day he was appointed to be the Nazi and who's on his right side rev Yeshua of course on his right side because rabieshua was the avevesden in fact it'll be sure was the first suggested candidate to become the Nasi but they said it would be too insulting to ramgam Leo so they had a pass on him who was the next candidate that they suggested to be the Nazi Rabia Kiva rabbit sitting on his left side but what was the problem with Kiva he didn't have so we have the whole set up according to the gemara in brachice the setup is very beautiful because this is the day that was either not invited or chose not to participate at a say there where his Replacements were all sitting around the table speaking about yitzia Smith's now let's take a look for a moment in number six I don't know I like to say this is the most famous but I don't know I don't think anybody ever took a poll what the most famous Martin chance is but this would definitely rank as one of the most well-known Camaros in shots the gemara says I'll Translate a student who by the way at the end of the gemara ligma identifies this came before ravishua he said is matter of discretionary or is not obligatory said it's discretionary they came before him gamlio Ram gamliel said you gotta say it what do you mean said it's discretionary says wait until all the rabbis come into the basement and when all the shield bureaus came into the basement got up he asked anybody have anything to say contrary now from Gamaliel expressed his opinion nobody's saying boo because maintained the following position then the aftermath of the Corbin based immigration now let's understand For a Moment who is Robin gumlio Ramen Gamaliel is the fifth generation from Hillel Hillel was a direct descendant of now the opinion of the davidic family going back from Hillel is that is you can't be a wimp if you're going to be a leader in Cloudy Saul you need to have an iron fist you cannot allow anyone to challenge you and the moment anybody says anything to to sort of speak put you on weak footing you need to squelch them immediately that was the opinion of rebbe it has nothing to do with humility the family of David was the most humble of all of Claudia Israel the gemara says when revi passed away another ceased but rebe was the one who said rebby's father was father was very good Ram gum Leo excellent now this from gum Leo was from gamliel of yavna that when I was being led out of the uh you shalim in the coffin and he finally meets Vespasian and he asks for something he said just he meant this Ramen around the grandfather of rabbi father was Shimon bengalia one of those his father was Ram gamliel hazakin his father was probably with shiman and his father was hello okay so we have seven generations from Hillel until rebbe okay this was the second ram gamlio round gamliel of yavneh who maintained that in order to now now lived through the time of the Corbin and he lived in the aftermath of the Corbin and he felt that since claudiso were reeling from the Corbin in order to Galvanize in order to solidify the strength of kalisol he needed to consolidate the power of the nasios and therefore he did not allow anyone to argue on him no kidding Revelation gets up and he says until this day I was never able to get the hakamim to agree to me you know why he was never able to get the khakam to agree to him because you know who uh you know who agreed with the kakama and probably Ram gam Leo and nobody's starting over there on gum Leo so until this Theory Revelation Isaiah said I was never successful in giving a winning argument now he's sitting around to stay there with Rabbi Yeshua and rabi Akiva and reptiles in Wood somewhere so now finally he's able to give a winning argument but the garage continues not yet stand up and they're going to testify about you Sarah Yeshua has no choice but Yeshua says uh basically you're right I hold Narrows did not let rabieshua sit down so we got Ruby she was standing there rangam Leo's giving the drasha and people so to speak are very sensitive to the honor of Yeshua that he's he's standing there like uh like a statue right I'm gonna basically she was a puppet Galileo ordered him to stand and he can't sit down and people started uh talking and they said to hudspeth who was the maturgaman um how long is this Ram gum Leo gonna cause sarchabishua last year remember last year on Rosh Hashanah ravishua helium Kipper was one day there was a difference and there was another instance that Aaron gamliox displayed authority over of Yeshua so they said let's remove him they said find no problem who's going to be the next Rabbi you know it's not easy to to appoint a new Rabbi to a point Rabbi Yeshua it's going to be too insulting to him gamliel because rev Miller suggests when when the gemara says that we can't appoint Ruby sure because it's going to be insulting Yeshua was the one who told him you can't appoint me it's going to be too insulting to him no maybe even gum Leo will give him a bad look and Ruby Akiva does not have the requisite so they said let's appoint he's wise he's wealthy and he has he's wise he can answer questions he's wealthy he could deal with the Caesar and he has he's a 10th Generation from Ezra if he gives them a bad look he'll be protected so what did Revelation say I gotta ask the boss right he went to ask his wife he now but he didn't listen to his wife which was a general policy you could ask but doesn't mean you have to answer so um he said let me ask the boss so his wife said maybe they'll remove you so he said one day in the sun is right um and the gemara says he didn't have uh she said to him that you don't have white here so 18 rows of white here uh group okay so perhaps we could suggest if according to the girls to the ram of the rambam um said that that faithful say there then that fateful seder must have been during the takufa that Ram gamlio was removed and that perhaps may explain why Ram gamlea was not at that say that but the gemara says further I think Amara says on that day somebody lost the job who lost the job the guard of the base matters because remember was a tough person not personally but he conducted his his authority and his power in a very exacting way Ram gamliel's policy was most people look better on the outside than they are on the inside people Shuckle away during schman aslay and what are they thinking about what do you think about weather Sports food and other things that we don't want to talk about right so most people they're better on the outside than they are on the inside's policy was called talmich in toy kabaroy Ali consulate anybody whose inside is not unequal to their outside cannot enter the base matters so as you can imagine there's nobody in the basement right who's going to meet the test of ram gamlia they have to pass before Ram gamlion he's going to look into your lathe into your Maya into your nashama nobody's passing the test says the gemara on that day they removed the guard of the base time Eros and rev gamlio used to announce called Thomas and talking about like how many benches were added either 400 or 700 benches were added into the into the basement matters so you can imagine who's walking into the basement as I was appointed the Russia the Tom the Alicia they're all until now the the base matters was full of what all the shaw didn't even get into the building the Russia couldn't even get onto the block and the tongue was like peeking in could we suggest rabbosai that the Savior begins all my revelation you know I have to say that has to begin This Way Ariana this mission is a random Mission it's not connected to little seder this is a halacha that masculinity it's not really you know why because we've got a big problem because the Torah says the night of the say there you need to teach four types of children but the problem is Ram Gamaliel is standing at your front door saying you could come in but come Russia stay out so the first thing we need to do when we start to say there is we need to depose Raven Gamaliel the Savior begins on my Revelation Azaria is the only way we could get all the kids to the table the only way everyone's coming to the table is if Revelation is the Nasi but rangamlio's policy would not allow all the children to be at the state so you say that's a stretch let me tell you another thing it's quoted and I saw this quoted in Manny's Forum but I could not find where they quoted from and the source of it is Russia Tom what Judaism doesn't have to have a urine uh the universe so listen to this now when did this story happen this story happened the night that Revelation became the Nasi if he's becoming an Aussie who could enter the say there Allah so what are they trying to do that night they're trying to reach even the tongue the Russia the city of the illusion so you know what the tamidam came down they said chakras your pronouncement of emuna has taka reached chakras the Russian because these people are not entering I found this by the way this this detail I found it was a stumbling block well no that was his opinion by the way Ram gum Leo felt bad when they opened up the base murderish and they added 400 benches felt bad so the gemara says he had a dream and in his dream he saw a white clear cup with ashes inside as if to say you were right for not letting the people in because they might be nice on the outside but their ashes on the inside and then gemara says no Ram gum Leo is wrong so why did Hashem comfort him because even though he was incorrect that's the gemara okay so it's interesting I found in the hagada of Nelson gestetner he quotes likute Maran that is he says that's Shadow avraham was musaki in shakras avraham was able to bring yamuna to all of Kal Israel and this is what the tamidam told the rabbaim that through separagus matrium through Rabbi Sam they were able to be mashpia kriya Shima which is to all four types of Jews he's even bothered in the next piece so why is the order first you know he should come last you know the initial is the lowest madrega so he says that since on the night of the say there even for those who are not deserving and it's the lower you are the first you get it okay but be it as a may could we suggest that the reason why they say there begins this way is because we cannot even begin the Seder of having a discussion with Tom Rasha any Adele with ram gamlil as the Nazi we start off with rebelazar's appointment which is indicated in the fact He's listed in the middle over here by the way in reproving margolius is hagada he says that the order of rebels number seven is based on the the arrangement mentioned in is that the most important one is seated in the middle okay we're just getting warmed up here because in my opinion this explains the format of the hagada okay I'm telling you this is original so you know if you say nobody ever said it before for good reason you're entitled to your opinion I'm just telling you an original perspective Lagana at the end of the day what's wrong gamliel doing Ram gamliel is just sitting there in the basement he wasn't invited to that say there and uh for good reason they had just opposed him anyway the gemara says that um the whole masakta idios was taught by Beyond and whenever it says boy Beyond in the mishnah it refers to the day of Elizabeth many does not mean one specific day it means an era because it's impossible that the whole idios was taught in one day and the gemara says there was not one that was questioned in the base marriage that they didn't have an answer even when gamble sat there in the basement there's like a humble student he didn't say well either I'm the Nazi or I'm out of here he remains in the basement it doesn't quite say really uh maybe to nowadays they would have put them in hand but back then they just opposed him okay but the gemara continues now at the end of the day so where are we in the stay there I'm maintaining that the say there parallels this episode in the gemara broadcast where Ram gamlia was the post because felt bad ly I'll say I'm gonna go ask rabieshua for forgiveness and he sees the walls of his house are black so gamliel says it appears to me that you're a blacksmith was very critical around he says woe to the this generation that you're the leader you don't know how difficult it is to make a living says I insulted you please be Mohamed Said No Leo said do it for the honor of who my father he was what no not his wife he was Matthias right what did REM gamliel mean do it for the honor of my father who is his father who is rangamleel's Father so he said Ram gum Leo's father was looking with Nissen going look number 14. the Hyde base five generations before David like we say in the gamaran Shabbos before the bias 100 years this is the son of shimogam leel who is the fourth generation to Hillel was the fifth his son was with shiman and his son was he was the seventh generation to Hillel Seventh Generation so it comes out when Gamaliel said for the sake of my illustrious ancestor who was he referring to hello so finally rubbisho was Michael him so the gemara says who's going to tell the rabbanon that review or that Ram gum Leo could become the Nazi again so a certain launderer said I'm gonna go tell him um meanwhile rabishua sent a message to the basement and uh that we should appoint again in the interim had already locked the doors of the basement said we got to appoint him again so Akiva said fine I only deposed him for your honor if you're Michael him let's bring him back so now the gamar had a big dilemma what do we do with ramgaria if we're gonna depose if we're gonna bring down Revelation there's a rule maalimba koi Dash they're gonna go half and half that's not gonna work because it's going to create jealousy by the way Victor Miller suggests how does it make sense Leo was the senior time with the era and Revelation Azaria is 18 years old he's going to be the assistant He suggests as follows they knew that ultimately they're going to bring around Gamaliel back if they would have appointed Kiva there would be an untenuous situation between two two big guns at the top you can't have two big guns you can't have an assistant Rabbi who's on equal footing with the rabbi an assistant Rabbi has to be clearly younger and not as capable as the rabbi otherwise it creates competition that's untenable so since they knew that ultimately they put Ram Gamaliel back and they would have to put them back three out of four so they they put in as the fourth a candidate who would not be a competition through who would be a very very young man uh so ultimately what do they do Romeo got three and Revelation as I got one I know it hit me like a ton of bricks so if we're gonna say that the hagada opens up what Ram gum Wheels out of the picture from Google's out of the picture in walks in the Russia the Tom and the channel and Revelation is the king But ultimately at the end of the day rangamleo comes back that's why at the very end of the say there Robin Gamaliel a that's why we come Leo comes back to the stay there he's the end of the Seder why because at the end of the day run gamliel returns to his nasias but the question is what do you mean he returns he's got to get three exactly so Leo gets three how lucky at the end of the same there call shalomyal gets his three River Elizabeth only had one he has one halacha Smith the question is this if this is the hotel doesn't work out this has to be remember and sure enough the Taj baits rights even though Ram gamliel is saying what the reason for the carbon passage is so that might lead you to believe this is who lived in time of the bias no because he uses so he's not talking about what he did he's talking about what is zaida did so this says the attachment is referring to none other than look what he writes he says quotes the touch base at the end of my Muhammad's um he says okay so the touch base learns interestingly now the rambam disagrees the rambam according to the rambam it could be that this is but for our purposes we're trying to say that uh this is a reenactment so to speak to say there is a reenactment of the episode in brachice so Revelation starts off tonight to allow in chakrasa and the Tam and then ultimately we bring gamliel back the thing is if we're going to bring him back he's got to get three we give him the three what are the three but we're not done because how are we allowed to bring around gum Leo back rugby sure wasn't Michael him when gamble asked to be sure to be Michael him whatever Yeshua say no so what did wrong have to do he said hello so one last thing we still have to do we got to bring Hillel into the state there and therefore after Ram gamliel we bring in after they say after rangam Leo we bring in Hillel otherwise they bring him Leo can't make it back into the say there okay so uh the night of the Savior perhaps and we could say as follows we could say that is correct but in gullus it really doesn't work that well meaning in the ideal world you need to have a leader who is uh only accepting of but in the gulless we're not on that madrega so the beginning of the night of the sea there we need to Institute the policy of rebles of an Azaria open door policy because if you're going to start off to say there call which allegorically means anyone thirsting for Judaism coming to my house never said that did rangamley I'll ever say vehicle no I'll tell you how or I had last night it's a heart on the floor look in the first paragraph of perchialis I never realized this I found the abarabanel points this out but it's unbelievable look in the first paragraphs you have hello you have shiman you have Ramen Gamaliel you have shiman bengaliel you have Shimon the son of ram gam Leo and you have rabi and guess who's absent from Perkins guess who's the only Tano not mentioned in the whole Pierce is what was the man doing the night of the Seder he's saying he's misopran but you see us in the time he's learning agarita what's wrong gum Leo doing the night of the say there he was always saying she won an orange Leo Liz he's all over the pages he's a halaka man his position was none of this what none of this I got it to business he's the only Tano not mentioned in barbinellas bother why is he says maybe they didn't have something to quote over from him didn't have something to quote over from him I'm sure had a lot to say Emily was the Nazi of kalist was but the night of the say that we have to start off if you're gonna say called and you want to bring in Russia the Tom you want to get higiasma we start off with um Ariana somewhere and Lord with the Blessed says finally is not here I could uh finally win one argument because I wouldn't open up his mouth remember when will ask anybody have anything to say about I have nothing to say about Mara okay right boys I just food for thought about um the format of the Seder it begins with Revelations makes a comeback he gets three but he's only nimha why because you've just experienced another Torah class brought to you byctoranytime.com