Peru Kosher Visit - Chocolate Production

hello and welcome to star k's webinar we're here in the rk head offices in baltimore maryland i'm rabbi steve goldberg uh your host and also today your guest i have rabbi byer uh was a regular on our show thank you everybody for coming on hello okay uh if on on the on the bottom right of your screen you have a little chat box if some people could chat with us just to let us know that you you can hear us we'd be appreciate that just that we're getting out there um i'm going to put up the phone number in case you can't hear okay abraham says he hears and make okay so then we have a few people thank you very much um we are uh we are here on and actually split screen every buyer is in his office in mine and and we hope that hashem everything will go techn the technology will uh will be uh smooth um we have these webinars about once a month and uh if you signed up for this this webinar we have you on our our email list and you will be informed of other uh forthcoming webinars when you when you sign up for the webinar you get a uh a link back and sometimes it goes into spam uh because the the computers think that it's not something you ask for so just look in your spam in case you don't get the uh the link okay so today robbie buyer um as the email mentioned we're gonna discuss my trip to peru which is quite interesting from my perspective i like to go out to these these far-flung places for koshers uh so we'll do some tourism discussion at the beginning then the reason i went was really for a chocolate factory we'll talk about the lockers of chocolate cashew with chalk cha cashewing chocolate the broccoli on chocolate then if we have time we'll get to some interesting fruits that i had down there and shakianu issues again if anybody has any questions or want some clarification you have the chat box on the bottom uh bottom right okay so let me show you what i did not do rabbi so the first part is sort of just fun and then we'll get into some halachus um so i know you flew like first class of course that's the only way of course that you fly i know okay this is on the screen uh it was pretty neat to see this this is there is no non-stop from washington baltimore to peru here's iah which is houston so i flew from baltimore to houston and then houston down to peru as you can see it's it's pretty far yeah it must be at least six inches there on the screen yeah well considering that from here to here where's eric sorrell over here over here it's it the map is not the scale and yeah it's it's like traveling to arizona basically it's the same it was it was about 10 hours yeah mm-hmm right it's a long flight to a mask the whole time you have to wear a mask the whole time right brother and not only that rugby buyer but in in in the airport in peru you have to wear two masks and then some in some places stores you go into you have to wear two masks really mask agave mask that's right they tell you that when you come off the plane or before you go yeah when you're off the plane in the airport you have to wear two masks right and when i went through security went through the immigration there um i must be missing something because i was i was not the last person off the plane but i was like the last person to go through there's like sidelines you know people who are special they go over here and over there and and if you know somebody you weren't in in the jewish line were you i just waited forever to get in um so that was my trip down there these are things i did not do uh actually this is very famous this is a famous picture it's called machu picchu this is a lot of times people yeah people uh there are millions of people who go there to visit from the mayans or depending how you pronounce it right so uh have you ever been there everybody no i have never been there any of our listeners ever been there it's it's uh it's a world historic site i'm curious if anybody ever went there i think robert schuman didn't rub my human goal he might have yeah robert is is one of our colleagues who since retired um and okay they don't let me go to these cool places i never got to go to i never get to go to these really cool places okay someone's telling us that the phone connection isn't working i'm not sure why we had some trouble with the phones i'm not sure why that is i'm sorry about that oh it's the incas not the mayans i'm sorry oh it's the ink is okay um so this i don't know exactly but there's some history about what was going on here and how they built the uh the structures there uh they were really incredible uh like engineering feats uh without modern technologies people come and go it's very very high up if you go to this place you have to be acclimated to it it's beautiful yeah it is uh and these mountains yeah and when i when so when i was planning my trip i um i thought you know maybe i'll take off an hour or two and go here but it doesn't work like that this is four four hour drive from where i was and then you have to make arrangements in advance it would be uh it's a four-hour drive from lima yeah at least most people fly i think i don't think it's really a good a nice drive i think they fly and so i did not i did not go there that was not on the schedule and uh another thing i did not go to was uh any of these llamas i did not see any anywhere i was at they're just not they're not like walking around the street they're not walking around the capitol no i don't it's kosher i don't think so are they i don't know i don't know and they've looked it up look at that while we're talking everybody look it up not sure i don't i never heard that they are i don't think so but maybe islam or 1l 1l gillian says it's not kosher okay so really yeah i've no i never heard that it would be but um anyway i did not see any they're not like you know walking around okay so let's go now to this um this is this is that's me i couldn't tell but that's uh this is the shul that i was i was uh dominating at who's who's sharon charon like nested sharon yeah union is your leader deal peru so that's the ashkenazi community there uh this is where i was with with our match down there and there's also a of of course there's uh there's a chabad there and we should mention that uh shocking shockingly rabbi blumenthal who's the khaba chile yes for many years for many years and as well as our one of our masjid him there he uh he was nifty suddenly um two weeks ago yeah um i didn't what's that very sad very sad yeah i didn't meet him when i was there but it was certainly disgusting and you know we they told me i could get food there if i wanted um and just to come back and to hear the next day that he was nifty was really a big shock and i wish the family in the hammer um so this was the shul that that that i was dabbing in and uh it's an ashkenazic jewel and and i mean you can see here that what do you say oh this is the inside this is the inside really beautiful nice large large tool but you can see the chairs are uh you know the cove it's covert style still right and uh unfortunately it's not people wearing masks initially people wearing masks in the shoe yeah oh yeah it's the shull holds many people the rabbi told me that on yom kippur they've had pre-covered 800 people on yom kippur wow the whole community the whole jewish communion down there is only 3 000 jews including including forum and not from so you know a large percentage of traditional jews but now because of kovid then it's just it's down i mean we had a minion for chakras i wasn't there for shabbos but then week we had a minion but um you know just the minion that's that yes that's in san ysidro uh asking where it is that's the name of this area san ysidro which is actually a very nice area um probably maybe they told me it's the nicest in in peru um how long has the community been in peru how uh okay so this ashkenazi community i have some history over here for you did i set you up for that question are we buyer i'm reading off a little card here was that okay so what's it what was interesting is that is that you know the the community i was in they um they look spidey and they some talk with a tough you know um uh very sweaty but the ashkenazim and in the in the early 20th century you can see here it says 1993 1939 many of the ashkenazi came from germany austria russia hungary other european uh areas and so their ashkenazim and they established this ashkenazic community and uh it was very interesting to you know to just to hear uh i feel like the davning is like a hasidic is is like hasidic sword like uh right oh yeah that's weird why is that but it was very interesting that they're actually ashkenazim and not and not uh safari is that because they're abundant there have been sparta no because their grandparents were oh why do they speak with that in that way why do they have no society because i think they learned like that in this school in the school in the uh i think the school is is yeah it's cool i think they learn like mostly run by israel israelis i mean yeah they're israeli um that come from israel and yes it definitely has that that flavor um and that influence but i can't grow your abundance at this point no no okay so let's take a look there's there's no achievement there is there no no just a day school day school there's a day school yeah is there a high school for girls or girls girls so i don't think so uh what is this oh that would just so the kids after after day school they go straight into public school and i'm not sure where they go i guess they go i'm not sure i didn't really discuss that here is now interesting thing about lima's there's no there's no rain there on kemat no rain there's no almo just like a mist sometimes they tell me so this is a 7-eleven on the trip where we went down to the factory this is a 7-eleven you can see it like a thatched roof actually inside it's very nice is it really a 7-eleven or is it just like a no it's not a 7-eleven it's a convenience store um with a restaurant it was actually very very high class and but the thatched roof is just for show because they don't need it doesn't rain so they don't need uh to protect from the rain so where do they get water from there's water from the the rivers there uh which come from the mountains yeah actually even the locals don't drink water so like when you travel when you travel to israel a lot of the tourists won't drink water but the locals do here even the locals don't drink the water unless it's filtered or boiled or something is not good quality but that okay that's just a lack of technology or something i don't know i'm not sure why they did i mean i'm sure they could get it and maybe lack of money um okay so here you see here on the side of the road as we're traveling see these like little suckers and they don't have any uh there's no there's no roofs on them again they can live like this people who the homeless they go and they build these little things because there's no rain so that i was told that they squat they squat for a few years and the government then sees it to them and then they they build regular houses yeah um okay so you're saying if you look at you would you say this is a poorer country than mexico then mexico i i don't i don't know the area i was in uh look a little bit like manhattan you know like like high class yeah upper west side but the rest of peru is very poor i can't compare it to the poorness in mexico but i can definitely understand why they want to come here did they tell you the crime was is the crime bad there everybody's behind a uh a fence every factory has a guard it's like that again you have to unlike in the united states it's not it's not it's i didn't see any crime in barcelona i was walking around in the area i was it was safe but uh there are certain areas that you wouldn't want to walk but that's true in baltimore too in new york also right you know okay this is interesting and not actually in that convenience store here is product that's made under the ou you can see over here on the bottom left uh these are crackers but the interesting thing is oh you d e yeah which is which is a whole discussion of itself people will know people who are uncautious and know about castrus will know that de means dairy equipment which means you can't eat these with meat but you could eat them after meat and it's not in common use this symbol in the united states although it's making making a complaint yeah yeah making a comeback a little bit with the ou and maybe with the star k but it's it's but you know it's just interesting to see that that uh unusual i guess they import to the united states um [Music] okay same machine that we use what's that same machine that we use possibly uh okay this is these are little taxis that are all over the place they'll take you from place to place not everybody has a car and they'll take you from place to place um for a soul or two soul which is like 25 cents or 50. if you go to atlantic city yeah or one of these places i have a boardwalk when i was a kid yeah these little things similar very similar they call them jitneys yeah something like that yeah yeah jokingly i asked where's the air conditioning i know that there isn't he said well it depends how wide you open the window okay let's continue um okay this is like just on the street for sale you know this old car it's it's not a collector's item it's just an old car if you want a car and you don't have one i i don't think you would see this in the united states i think this would be a collector's item where is this made where is it made yeah i'm not a buckingham car so i don't know i'm trying to recognize just caught my eye like what the foreign looks like i don't think it's an american car you would never see this in america you know for sale sign on a car like this yeah that's true pesha says she's translating that to cracker boxers high in sodium and it says avoid excessive consumption oh on the cracker box okay they're warning size signs but you know in israel they have that too in israel um a lot of the packaging says um high in in in sodium and high in fats i have a friend to tell me i have a friend that told me he only buys those things because they taste good but that'll be coming to uh while they're coming to be coming here soon also i guess yeah um okay let's continue uh now as far as kosher food for the for the for the from people there isn't a kosher store it's not like you have you know uh seven mile market or evergreen or whatever kosher store you have um there isn't a kosher store to buy so they they buy either products like we saw that are in uh imported in a regular supermarket they have shocked him that come to meet for them they have um so they have butcher shops or no i don't think so i think they have a shortcut when instead they have a shortcut that comes to check for them and then they someone like who captures it i'm who processes it for them maybe i guess i don't know they must have people doing it there because they bring in the and then um they told me at chabad you could get meals they used to have a restaurant under this this kosher israelite texture but since uh coveted closed down and now you can order from them so like you order on friday and they'll deliver it and then you you know they have special delivery days it's certainly not as convenient as as living in yeah well no but but but they're not starving they're not starving they have food they have everything they need and you get any fresh vegetables and and all that stuff fruits right whatever bread and eggs and everything you know and bread i mean bread is is usually hard i mean bread can sometimes be hard to find here in the states depending on where you are well what they have this this store that closed down still bakes bread and delivers it so you already have fresh bread yeah and uh you know this exactly they have they have definitely enough uh to eat they're not starving but it doesn't have the conveniences of living uh living you know over here okay um let me see what else we have okay the only touristing touristy thing i did do and with this i think we'll end our tourist part of it and go to some somehow is i asked i asked uh amashira to take me to a place i could buy some chaches or some you know souvenirs uh and so this place which is you can see all these stores there may be it's just one row of it like maybe 50 stores where you can buy different things sort of like the arab shook in in israel or they're all made in china [Laughter] very likely and then here's one close-up of that i'm still waiting for my souvenir okay this is you can see you have the inca things over here and all these yeah what what's really sad is is is that um what's really sad is that there's no no tourists and there's nobody there and they want to buy anything yeah the the ladies who are manning these stores are you know are walking like you know they're desperate for somebody to buy something you know you just feel bad that you know they don't they don't make any it's hard to make a living clearly very difficult for them yeah how do they make a living so the standard of living there is very low they told me that the average person um average worker makes 500 uh a month a month uh i'm sorry yeah 500 a month right yeah that's more than i expected actually five six hundred five six thousand dollars a year i said how could they make it on that so they say well there's a few people in the family working and the rent it must be i mean everything must be a bit lower than i mean i'm assuming right i guess it depends again where you live i don't think you could live in in this from area on that uh salary at all right but you can understand how someone who comes to america makes uh aliyah right to america and then makes fifty thousand or sixty thousand dollars a year you know sends back twenty thirty thousand dollars that's a huge amount for them yeah so that was that was a little uh a sad part is seeing this uh this um um you know this empty uh okay so i think with all of my uh my tourist uh tour and uh if we have time at the end we'll talk more about some chatriana fruits that i was able to eat there but now let's move down let's move on to the uh the the next part which is the reason i was there was to visit this chocolate factory that starkey certifies over there and the big the big uh the the novel thing about that factory is that it's all kosher powder so it's unusual to have in all culture there isn't any milk that's in that facility not not like a different part of the facility not a different you know a different floor there isn't any milk we're not capturing any any utensils there there is no milk in there it's all power which isn't unusual there are only a number of them uh that are kosher powder of in the world you have one rabbit by rollins i mentioned yeah in also in peru there's another one oh really i think it's in peru or didn't peril true yourself in brazil no it's not brazil oh in peru okay yeah all right in peru okay i could have visited both uh they're not exactly close to each other okay um okay so let's take let's look a little bit at the at the chocolate production process and uh then we'll discuss different questions about it so let's look over here robbie buyer picked up these youtubes which i'll be able to show you if you cannot see youtube's i apologize uh i'm sorry about that i know some of the the browsers they block it but um this is what we have okay let me move this to over here oh okay so we'll just take a look at some of this for about a minute or so buy one with temperatures in the high 30s this is hot hard work and each of these workers will harvest 1500 cocoa pods a day once the workers have piled up the pods they're hauled off for processing on another part of the plantation [Music] the seeds is also done by hand where is it this is in malaysia i think not in peru everybody can hear this currency one would buy tomato four a pumpkin and if you really wanted to flashy cash 100 will get you a turkey as the local wildlife will tell you the slippery membrane can can can can the viewers hear this while we're playing it okay good okay great so those the the those pods that they call them they're basically the fruit of the cocoa tree the fruit of the cocoa tree and then the the beans or the seeds basically are the cocoa beans and they come out all slimy looking from the pod we're gonna see that now right yeah membrane may taste sweet but the seeds inside are hard and extremely bitter turning them into a tasty treat means leaving them to ferment in vats so these are these are the cocoa beans they're uh like you said they're moist six days [Music] this breaks down the bitterness and starts to release the essential chocolate flavors you know there's a lot of similarities after just the right amount of fermentation they're laid out there are similarities between cocoa making and coffee i see at this stage the beans are fermented and allowed to dry jakub says it looks like they're full of bugs well that was just that one uh there one bug there but you know at the end and the chocolate is not going to be any bugs it's not it's not a problem the bugs wouldn't travel along with all this processing it's impossible um but you may you know if you looked at the uh cucumbers in the field you'd also see bugs on them but you know you wash them off and they're not uh they're if you're squeamish then yeah you have a problem eating exactly um so here you see that this is the they're they're drying out the cocoa beans and leaving behind raw dark cocoa beans ready to be turned into chocolate okay so that's that's that uh video um and um i i just okay steve says he has audio but no video on the youtube i'm not sure why that is but um i'm not sure okay but um you know you could see that it comes off a tree and uh actually i guess now i want to discuss this this issue of what the bracha is on on chocolate um it's it's it's a product of a tree and not only that this is basically the only use for it is to make it into chocolate so the luck is that when uh that's its use even though it's a you know creamy substance it's a liquid uh it it becomes it gets the bracha of heights and so the the the the the question that we have is why is everybody making a shahako on chocolate when really technically it should be a body priority because this is it's the chocolate that you eat is it's fruit it's not used for anything else so you're saying that so you're saying even though it's been changed from right completely changed from what it started out as the chocolate itself is considered to be the pre the fruit of the tree yes right thank you right that's that's what it was that's what many are are are uh you know wondering why we should make uh uh chocolate and there are actually some post kim who say that it is oids and you should make ice on it boy priorites um and others say no because there's so much else mixed with it actually if you look at your chocolate bar probably the first ingredient is sugar and sugar we make a shackle on although that itself is a question that's another question we do make a shackle on it right uh so maybe because the main ingredient is sugar that's a very difficult logic to accept because really you're not eating the chocolate because the sugaring because it's chocolate uh and it it's one of those things where it's very you wouldn't eat the chocolate without the sugar though right most probably right although some people use it without the sugar but most people do but you you really want the the chocolate flavor and it's hard the sugar is just to give flavor to the chocolate not the other way around right so it's hard that's a hard logic to accept so the bottom line is that we make shahakal on it and um and even though it's difficult to explain why why that why that would be um at least we don't have the wash on it so although that might help my diet you know okay cut down on the consumption um okay um i just want to mention uh we do have joining i think we have on the on the webinar of a buyer uh one of our clients in dubai oh who's interested in making chocolate under the staircase shihab and uh so that's an interesting guest that we have real chocolate in dubai as far as i know i'm not sure if they grow anything in dubai besides oil yeah abram is asking that the cocoa bean is not edible without processing no it's not you can't eat cocoa beans no one should have a problem with this year if what yaakov said that uh if you have to have a certain shear of chocolate oh if you have to use it right right okay let's take a look at it let's go to another video that shows us the further processing of the of the the yes the broken shackle the bottom line is even though we don't understand hundred percent the broadcast i i don't know anyone who makes on it although i know swarm that say you should the minig is by-in-law is is definitely to make a uh a shackle on it and that's what we do but it's a little bit of a halachic uh problem okay let's look at the this video is a little bit longer and hopefully you'll be able to see this as well let's go to this video it shows you the process better than we can explain it let me see if i can make the the volume um louder but okay i'm going to make the volume louder and let's see if that helps so we're going to take this and watch just a couple minutes of the processing of of chocolate and then we'll discuss the different halachus that apply to it through a cleaning system a series of sieves that screen out twigs stones and other debris [Music] next stop is a micronizer a revolving drum that heats the cocoa beans to loosen their shells then they enter a shell removing machine called a windower inside successive rakes drag the beans across screens pulling off large pieces of shell then a vacuum sucks away the remaining smaller pieces removing the shell exposes the inside of the cocoa bean which is called the nib the factory will roast the nibs to develop their flavor 50 plus percent of the nib is fat which is cocoa butter to make chocolate they'll combine processed nibs cocoa butter and sugar along with milk powder if they're making milk chocolate first the factory processes the nibs by grinding them the heat and friction activate the cocoa butter producing pure liquid chocolate called chocolate liquor the factory extracts some of the cocoa butter to sell it separately as chocolate making ingredient and to use for in-house chocolate production along with other ingredients in various proportions the dark chocolate recipe for example calls for more chocolate liquor sugar and cocoa butter but no milk powder the recipe for unsweetened chocolate contains no sugar the mixer blends the ingredients to the consistency of a very thick cake batter the flavor is fine by this point but the coarse texture needs to be smoothed out so the chocolate moves to a refining machine passing between a set of five rollers that reduce the particle size so much so that within just minutes the chocolate leaves the refiner as a function i just maybe you want to mention that um you see over here that the dairy powder and the you know the sugar whatever added at this early stage in the production where there's some heat involved right in the production casters questions come in right it actually is very hot it can be very hot it is very hot in the conch yeah okay let's keep going but now it needs to be re-liquefied so the next stop is a machine called a conch the friction and heat once again activate the cocoa butter returning the powder to a liquid state at this point they add more cocoa butter enough to reduce the viscosity to the exact thickness they need just a bit for example if they're making chocolate chips or much more if they're making a thin chocolate coating for chocolate chips the kong feeds a machine called a drop depositor as the name implies it deposits drops of chocolate onto a conveyor belt the nozzle trays are interchangeable so the machine can be set up to produce various sizes of chips disc or other shapes [Music] the chocolate ships still warm and soft enter a cooling tunnel traveling for about five minutes through several temperature zones which vary between 30 and 50 degrees fahrenheit by the time the chips exit the tunnel they're hard okay the rest will just be packaging and things like that right okay i think we got the the uh the uh the gist of it um i'm not sure they showed the part where what's amazing about uh chocolate actually right rabbit bar you know this but the cocoa butter that they they get out of it um they press under the the chocolate goes under uh extreme amount of pressure and um and that brings out the uh the cocoa butter which they i think they did show that they show that oily substance um which is solid at room temperature and um that has uses on its own but then they add it back into the chocolate at the percentage that they want to give the chocolate the right consistency and that's actually what they use to make white chocolate there is no such thing as white chocolate chocolate white it's uh it's brown but they use the cocoa butter with sugar and flavoring to to make what they call uh white white chocolate um cocoa butter is completely part of it even though it's called butter there's nothing to do it's just you know it's not the fat of the bean right the fat of the bean right and uh and then they they put it back in to give it you know for whatever they were trying to make so for different percentages they play with the chocolate right by they depends if you want to have 55 percent cocoa 70 right i mean now it's become like a health thing there was i say that they say that chocolate has a lot of health benefits whatever flavonoids or different things that that are in the chocolate on a you know micronutrient level but the higher the cocoa percentage usually the better it is that's why you know you go into some stores you see like fancy brands or whatever um 70 cocoa that's considered like really high right it is wouldn't that be more that would be more bitter right could be i mean i guess you could add british sugar to it too bitter sweet whatever but it's supposed to be healthier and uh that they they sell that for a lot of money those those extra extra high cocoa right content uh bars right okay so again in this factory that i visited there is no there is no cash ring there's no milk there's no need for cashewing but in a lot of other factories around the world they they make milk chocolate as well and they add milk and it's hot the process is hot and the concha gets hot and uh and so the conch is just basically a blender they're blending everything together to make it give it to give it the uh you bring it the friction has the heat uh are you sure is it heated they added heat also i think so yes there's heat i think there's added heat um and so we can get up 150 degrees i think um uh mrs pollock says it's 85 chocolate wow okay [Laughter] i don't think that would be too sweet but maybe the i guess there's got to be cocoa butter in there plus sugar right so uh so the thing is that you want to if you want to make pirate chocolate on the same equipment that you made dairy chocolate so then you have to kosher it you have to purge out the dairy uh part of it now the thing is that that normally the way you would caution would be with water you would clean the equipment you would uh put boiling water in there and that would caution like your couch or any other piece of equipment but the problem is that water and chocolate do not mix why rabbit bite what happens if you have water in chocolate um it causes the chocolate to i think they call it blooming or something it basically ruins the chocolate it ruins the chocolate right yeah even a little bit of chocolate in a big amount a little bit of water water a little bit of water then big amount of chocolate will ruin it it's a big so yeah the companies are very afraid that even if even if you you clean it you know you you capture it with the water and then you get rid of the water there'll still be some water there and that's going to ruin their chocolate and many companies do not allow cashiering uh with with water so they kosher with something other than water what we call shower masking something other than water some other liquid that the rama says in sh that be the avid it works that if you kosher let's say with oil it would be okay you know it's second best if you did it it would be considered kosher uh since the rama says that it's only be the avid second best you know if you did it star k does not allow that so any star k chocolate is either made in the factory that's all part of staircase power of chocolate stock a power of chocolate on equipment that's all always powered or that is cashard with water um we we i have another chocolate place where they they cashier with water and you know they they they don't care they after they put the water through they push coco cocoa butter through so get rid of the water that was there and uh and they're willing to do it i know we have a local chocolate maker over here in baltimore um they don't make it from the bean but they they use already made chocolate they melted and they make different uh different items but about once a year i think or so they they might wash the equipment with water and when they do that they take it all apart and it's very careful and they they make sure to dry it very carefully also right but it does occasionally hits you know has some water going on right so let's go through some of the halaq arguments why it would be allowed to kasha with with with either um uh chocolate or kosher with uh cocoa butter why why would you why would you not want to do it why what are the pros and cons let's start with the cons so those that argue against it they say that the rama says it's only be the average it's only acceptable if you already did it it's not something that's acceptable on the first uh you know it's not something you should really be doing um and even if you'll say that well we have no other choice this is all the company allows well who says that you have to make chocolate in that factory make chocolate in the factory that's all part of or or or use don't have don't have milk chocolate or don't eat chocolate right so who allows you to consider the avid situation as something you must do who needs it right there is power there is real power chocolate out there go get that um the other issue is is that they they they kosher with the with the cocoa butter in a in an oily uh state or they could cash you with chocolate at least they're asking they could cost you with chocolate that's hot a cocoa but that's hot the problem they don't they don't use that chocolate afterwards for for kosher or for right correct the problem is is there's a question whether that's really considered a liquid because at room temperature it will solidify so how can you call it a liquid when if you just you know put it into a cup it would be solid it would be cocoa brother would would solidify the chocolate would solidify is that really called a liquid at all and uh some argue that that's not even called a a a liquid it wouldn't even it wouldn't even be a koshering even by the evidence no good at all those that do casual with with uh chocolate or coco coco coco butter again it's not the star k but others do um and they argue that it is a liquid now you look at it you see it's a liquid it's cocoa butter in the oily state or it's chocolate in the oil in the liquid state and for the sake of argument you could say water also freezes and becomes ice so that's a solid too i mean anything can become a solid but the question is you know in its natural normal state of you know where the way we live is a liquid of solid and some say you're right it now it's a liquid so it's okay it's okay at least takashi um there are other uh there are other reasons that is put forth to say that you can cashier with with chocolate and that is that maybe it doesn't really need cashering because the percentages of milk in there are very it's not that high and the percent of chocolate that you'll be running as power is very high so there's always more than 60 times the amount so there's a whole it's not for this kind of discussion but there's a logic that maybe it doesn't really need koshering it's called mishtamish basheva for those that learn urudea and it doesn't really need koshering so therefore if we kasha already with with uh you know with chocolate or char mushroom that would be okay um a lot of european chocolate is cashiered with is pot that's part of is kosher with other liquids so if it's something that you that you want to avoid you should look into it call the hecture and ask them whether they kosher with uh you know with other other liquids we have a power of one though i think i believe starkey has one from europe we have one from europe that's all that's either i think it's maybe not it's made a little bit either right it's always factory or something i think so okay yeah um i'm not trying to promote this arcade but the bottom line is if it has a star cannon it's powerif it's not captured with anything although there's no water or it's made what's that you could promote the starkey it's no it's our show right we're allowed to we don't usually we try to give everybody equal footing over here this is not a this is an a political show everybody no not uh mrs pollock is listening though so okay um mrs pollock is dr pollock's wife first the first lady of the star cake the first lady right very good okay um okay so if there are any other questions about the kosher ring we could take them now or if you have any questions about anything else we'd be happy to to discuss that but that is in an in in a nutshell sorry buyer that's the story with uh with the capturing for uh cashiering and the bracha on the chocolate okay let's move to one more topic my last topic which is uh getting back to the touristy part i had some fruits there in peru which were quite interesting here's one called the cherimoya you could see it uh you can see it through the plastic here it's a very interesting fruit i mean i never they don't export it it they told me that it can't withstand the export it's a very sensitive skin and then when you cut it open you get you get this this is inside so it has large seeds and the fruit is like sweet is it yeah and since i i never had that before i made actually uh shakianu now shakiano was a problem in the united states because there is no real season according to behind him and according to many postcon the fruits are available at all all the time through through the year either they grow in america or they bring them from brazil they bring them from the other side of the world from wherever and you can get them all year like plums okay there is a season for plums but if they're not available in america they'll bring them from south america so it's hard to say that there's you know it's a new new fruit on unique on unique fruits that's why they bring in all these strange fruits uh i'm russian on the second night you make a broccoli even if you don't have a new fruit so it's not something that really has to be a new fruit they bring sometimes this what they call a star fruit right fruits and other strains which is like bitter i don't know why we're eating lychees yeah right different different but if those are available all year then you wouldn't make a bracha uh on them even if you personally haven't haven't had it right in a year right if they're available all year in the stores the regular store you wouldn't make a buck on it but this is this is not available all year and it's not even available all year in peru so this i made a bracha on that and then they also brought me another uh fruit this is called uh sweet cucumber which nothing doesn't look like a cucumber at all uh it's also tastes good and i made another shakiano on that one it's also in season down there now and is not available in the united states at all as far as i can tell and uh and then i i made a um i made a joke that when i came back to america i made another shakianu that i am able to live in a large community with all the amenities yeah um you know so these these these these are it's difficult to find the fruit in the united states that we could actually say that you should make a shechirian one dried fruit for sure you did not make a chef yonder because you can see that's almost like a tomato does it have the same consistency like a tomato i think it i think it might yeah mm-hmm they call it a sweet cucumber for some reason it doesn't taste like a tomato but yeah okay if you have dried fruit you do not make a shakianu for sure not because that uh you can it's it it stays from season to season you know if you have a uh a smoothie with fruit you don't make a shaky on you because again you could refrigerate it and keep it uh you know almost freeze it keep it forever fresh so it it's difficult to find a a real shaky on the fruit in the united states so i think it's worthwhile to travel down to south america once in a while to be able to make uh make a shafiyano okay so that uh i think brings us to the end of our our discussion rabbi buyer no questions no one had any questions no there's no there we explained it very well and that's it i won't mention if you have any questions about this or any other cachers topic you can reach us at 410-484-4110 or you can email email us info at stardashk.org and uh make sure you ask for rabbi byer [Laughter] and uh uh yes there is no store in peru that's what i'm saying is exactly what's in here what's next what what's the next uh location we're going to the next location i don't know my travel series here yeah travel series we had rabbi rabbi you can find our old webinars and this one will also be archived on our website and also on vimeo if you search vimeo for start star k certification you'll find the uh you'll find the the uh the old webinars and uh we had robbie by holland on about his trip to dubai a few months ago which is it was very interesting actually i'd like to go there on the way yeah it's very interesting to see how other people live how other you didn't live how other live it's just interesting to me to you know to then you appreciate what you have and uh go to downtown baltimore and see that if you want you can see that that's true right and i learned a lot on the trip and uh you know it was uh it was it was i didn't really i wasn't a tourist and that's why when we sent out the email i put the word tourist in in in quotes because i didn't really do any touring other than what i had to see from my uh i went for this chocolate factory i also saw i think five or six other where was the factory by the way factory is if you let's go back to this uh the picture we had over here um okay so you could see over here on the edge can you i'm not sure you can see my my arrow here but this is peru on the edge of of south america i see where lima is you can't see the arrow okay you can see lima okay yeah peru is like a long skinny country right like a hot pepper um on the edge of the on the western edge of south america and so to get to this plant we drove three hours down the coast and so the whole time the uh which is actually a very modern road but it didn't it wasn't always like that they just redid it and now they charge a tow right it's privatized like in many countries right the road is privatized oh it's privatized really they charge a toll to get to get down there and that's what you're paying for to be able to drive on this on a nice uh nice road um you know but many of the other roads are you know full of potholes and not in the area again not in the from area in the from area it's actually very nice and everything is you you it's high class and all the embassies are there in the from area different area yeah that's where the embassies are and uh it's it's it's actually very very you know very nice but and the roads are fine and there's their own they have their own police force you know it's uh not a problem i walk around with my yamaka no uh no you know there was any no there was no anti-semitism that i could notice or tell um every everybody was very respectful of the rabiner from from america yeah you know and uh it was fine simcha says he's been going to dubai for seven eight years for koshers uh there's not much they're older than you okay no history that's a compliment okay i want to thank everybody for joining us again if you have any questions you can email us info stardashk.org and you can also check out our website star-k.org there's a ton of information there you can see our old archive then we hope that you will join us next time thanks very much take care