PART 1: The Life and Legacy of Rav Moshe Shapira from the View of Two Talmidim (Ep. 221)

hi and welcome to the rowski show whether you're watching with our friends over any time whoever you watch or listen to your podcast as always it's exciting to have you along for the experience and we have a special podcast for you today but first let's do our uh sponsorship thank you so much for the personal B MIT video for Israel I am certain it will make him very happy he wanted us to sponsor an episode in on of his bar mitzvah now I don't know if you remember Israel this is uh you have since there is uh all the RAB olowski crazies out there whove probably committed every uh podcast to memory you'll remember at one point that's this kid wrote in and said that he's a big fan and he watches all the shows you know and shares it with people and could I give him a shout out and I said no so he's G bar mitzvah and he wants to sponsor an episode what better way to join CLA Isel become an adult and to sponsor the rowski show so mazeltov and may you go on and do great things in this world and now I would like to uh introduce this very special podcast you know uh there are some people who always enjoy it whenever we have guests on the rowski show there are some people who don't CU they only want to hear me talk over and over and over and over and over again but listen variety is the spice of life yeah so uh I have on the podcast for the first time an old friend also I know him a long time and and that is who is sort of English I say he's sort of English because he spent enough time in Memphis that now his accent is unrecognizable either to English people or to Americans and it's become something of an amalgam he has become a legend in in the field of inim and he also plays a mean guitar and uh he's been around for a long time a very very long time he holds it better than I do but uh he's getting white my gosh I didn't even realize it yeah so uh but he still has that youthful charm to him in any event uh we're here actually there's so many things we could discuss uh with all of his years of experience in but we here to talk about one particular thing and that is the new book that he has just put out called looking into the sun which is about R Shapiro and I can say he wrote the book about his rebi R Shapiro and I can say he did not write the book about my rebi Raa Shapiro and I have said this many times I am uh would not not have the to call myself a talid Anda agreed with me this popped out once when um when there was a particular controversy that raisha was involved in and I somehow got pulled into the controversy and there were some big people who were attacking me and I went to Rema and I said TOA I said I don't know why they're angry at me it's like you know I'm a no body it's it's it's like uh if you're you know angry at the king you don't kill the jester you know I said and uh you know basically um you know IFA wanted to get a message out there he wouldn't have said hey that guy sitting in the fourth row who doesn't know anything that's going on I want him to represent me and Thea said it's really very funny which is not what I was hoping for but it did confirm exactly how I felt so um uh I felt that uh um I was Z to have a caser with Raa and in that regard I am among thousands of people who felt that they had a close caser with rmha I know this for a fact there were thousands of people who depended on rmha how it was possible I don't know and there was never a time when I said to rmha I need to speak with you or I have to bring one of my kids to you that he didn't make time within the next 24 hours to make that happen and he did this for thousands of people I don't know where the time came in the day it was something astronomical and that's why um it's interesting this book was published by felim it's not an art school book and I'll tell you why I'm I'm going to theorize here why somebody came back fromes Lev and he says the hasp them were uh generic and anyone who knew R Shapiro he was not generic I don't think there was ever a GLE be Israel who was generic but there's a tendency today to sanitize and mass produ gulum so that everybody fits into a particular you know little square and raisha would never have felt fit into any particular Square he was too big for that um Jonathan Rosen told me when he was writing the biography on RB Yakov ketki there was a particular story where Yakov said if it was me I would have thrown him down the stairs and art scho said no no we we we can't write that so they he said I would have shown him to the door but reak said I would have thrown him down the stairs and that's exactly what he meant there was a certain you know flavor to it and therefore I had a relationship with Raa Shapiro that defied anybody else's relationship and when I hear certain people talk about RHA that's not Thea Shapiro that I knew um told me he had a relationship with Raa where they only spoke about that's all they spoke about one time he knew everybody would go to this Thursday night cheer it was hundreds of people he showed up you know Vera was very short you tell was very tall and he had this long beard you know he's very very uh distinguished looking Anda looks grabs him by the beard pulls him down to face level and says what are you doing here and he says sorry it won't happen again he says see that it doesn't so that was his I have a friend Mel Kaplan who's a Shas he gone through Shas many times and after Rosa's daughter died uh he used to give shuram and Tyrus and um M only went to isir andus he never went to any s so there's a there's a such a wide variety of rmha when you speak about rmha he's too big to fit into one particular schnit but uh RAB nissl has been one of his Clos tum goes back a long long time and he's done a tremendous job trying to capture the various aspects of rosha in one book and that's what we here to talk about today R niss welcome to the rowski show thank you my dear friend R it's great to be here so uh so you wrote a book oh my gosh I sure did not your first book not my first book I I have quoted your other book a number of times and the rig Shay please continue to do so I remember he said something to me that made a deep impression on me and that is the advantage of a book like Rick sha is it keeps selling because it's a book on Hal it's for a novel so it sells 3,000 4,000 whatever amount it is and then that's it goes into all the lending and it's finished but since it's a book on and this is a book on women's which is uh a unique topic you know the scoop we're coming out with a new edition right now oh you really oh yeah you translated into Hebrew I know but this is the this is the Expanded Edition it's about 20% bigger it's got a lot new hus new sections and uh yeah it's I just quoted you in a question and answer uh we have question answer on a regular show when it's not an interview show at the end and uh this woman was asking um about uh taking care of little kids and having to DAV and I quoted Yak from R shinberg that's right you know which was in the book quote the r sh so so this is it this is just this is your second book oh this is very exciting yeah so what is this book and why so the the Raa saer really began as a series of articles in Mish magazine right um just it's just began I wanted to bring Raa to an audience that just didn't know him I figured that there has to be a way to spread rosha Beyond his initial group of T he was pretty he was pretty lowkey considering who he was a lot of people didn't know who he was yeah um I think that was intentional yeah when I started writing this book I found out very very quickly that no one knew what he was doing the next hour and whom and he had literally dozens of different types of groups of people that he had unique connections to um honestly until he passed away did you know what he did in France did you know what he did in South America I know he used to go to Russia okay so everyone everyone knew about Russia because we missed out on him on PES but he made a massive revolution in France he made a massive revolution in South America he will be flown in just to speak to the to the leaders and to the MIM and to the educat into the Russ Shas and he had Retreats where he would train them in how to change the world and he did I know he used to go to the ja in London correct and that's why I heard from R Aubrey hir uh where he an amazing thing I mean Rie tats writes about this in in one of his books but um he says I was there where people would ask multiple questions right and then he would give one answer that would answer all the questions yeah which is okay it's a it's a good party trick I mean most people can't do that someone asked him once how he does it and he says when you look like this it looks like there's four different things you have to go down to the bottom and see the source so to him all of to was connected it was one hole there was no there was no things so I know he was working in England was he doing in South America so um no one knows he how do you know about it he had a Hermione Time Turner he had one of those abil no one knows how he did it he he went to South America with Ariel Cyro who was my main feeder of the stories I actually had a request last week by Rabbi wanes in buar when can we translate the book into Spanish so that's already in place wow and um what he did in South America and in Mexico was a totally different Raa um let's give you an example okay okay give you two examples actually and when he went to Mexico City for the first time I was a massive massive Gathering of people all kinds of different people um Rabbi cisterra was in awe of the fact that after he finished speaking people came and discuss cabalistic ideas about what he was saying and other people coming in who didn't know a safer and asking on the same share like Alf based questions and rosha asked them answered them all equally but what was incredible was that his take- home message in Mexico City was twofold he said the two things Mexico City has to do to change the landscape of what the city is all about number one is that they have to work on cir of there has to be like Cur of organizations Mexico City was he was a cur proponent yeah so he he he pushed it more so than probably any other the you know more contemporary gum in our circles this was his passion he said he could not sleep at night knowing that there were train loads in his words train loads of Jews going to out search in in Los Angeles his spiritual Al that he was talking about he could not do with it let me just finish my sentence D don't distract me no yeah there was besides doing teach talking about kir which we can get back to he said at exactly the same time that Mexico City has to have kabas where the topend are learning cabala and this is like whoa what's going on over here and then he didn't just talk about it he would not leave Mexico City until he set up kabor of people learning what's called ter so he had that breath to be able to figure out what the community was all about to figure out what needed to be fixed and he was fixing simultaneously the two ends of what the community needed th this emphasis on cabala apparently he had gotten from rla correct and uh so he told me once yeah he says I said uh I said did I said have not he took he took some hash he took some cabala he took some kidas mixed it all together and called it mus he just he made it up you know I said well did he have misn him he goes yo his wife she was terrible she was right what he did but he he told somebody once the way you M People in auna today is through cabala right you know and uh obviously there were different levels of it exactly it was very new for example do you know about the secret cab sh you gave in the middle of the night um so I found out a lot about it afterwards I only found out about it because somebody asked me about it yeah so in said to me when does he give the secret Kabal she in the middle of night I was like come again like you think he shares this with me you know right so uh I went I I went to the Monday night Shear which was not as intense as the Friday Shear that you went to you know certainly not these but one time somebody asked him a question he looks around the room and he says loo right that was too deep for here cuz he noticed I was there so he was going to say it in front of me Thursday night he would not give Mar momas what he was saying and in our share on the Friday share so I was one of the babies over there like you know thinking about there was me next to me to my left was rats and then was Raa and then there was like the big guns all these Russ some people that had written s Kamala and there he he would take took about stuff I'm looking at my notes now and slowly it's starting to emerge maybe I understand a few things here and there I always said the great thing abouta is it took me three years just to understand what he was talking about because he says things which I have no frame of reference for no context for it correct you know um he want made to come to n that he expected everyone here to be familiar with the RS of the leem and start yeah and to back to front I remember look everyone knows the spherus right 101 right so and they correspond to the seven and right anyway I'm in a and he explains how uh yose is the med ofis no no how Y is the med ofis the next week he explains how Abraham is the mid ofis the third week he explains how mosha is the mid ofis now I know this Jakob is none of these people are so I said to yoseph Brown of course have been going for right 25 years at that point I said how could everyone be Taris except the one guy who's Taris he says David don't you have a look you know at the end of over there this he's explaining the of he's explaining the okay I had no way of knowing that there was I had no there was no way I could pick up on that you know so it took me like three years to do it and then it took me another three years to be able to say another words to convince people that I knew what I was talking about even though I clearly had no idea what I was talking about know but I could say yeah yeah cipus you know it was a lot of fun you know but it was like I I went once to a Thursday night sh and I was driving r g andf fell back an old of and I said over he said that's an unbelievable thing he said and I said it over he goes and and him and the two the car said that's not what he said at all I was like sure I was and they said no no no no you you got it completely you mixed up everything that he said it was a humbling experience yeah indeed you know but uh and the words of uh Dirty Harry a man's got to know his limitations I don't remember that part of her yeah pleas please there was one time when I got it right in in the Tuesday year right and the other people didn't and I said I said let me ask I asked I says did did the r mean such and such and he goes of course I said because somebody said that you meant this tell that person he should never come back to the shear I was like okay I'm out you know mean cuz but for the grace of God so go I I just got lucky this time but uh he uh it was so amazing because he there was such a sweetness to him and such a concern for everybody here's here's one of my ration stories I don't know if you know this there was someone in South America who had an andrist right a a hermaphodite half half man half woman and uh they weren't sure what to do so they came to and they met with a big pisc and he was like oh my gosh you know you learn these suas but you don't think it's ever going to be and they went through all the things Etc and then they were intoa and they said you know we had an unist and he burst into tears right at the same time yeah I was in a Thursday night Shar and some kid stands up and snaps a picture oh my God oh my God and everyone goes my my heart is palpitating just thinking about that yeah and paes and he goes say bakha yeah and the kid freezes it was like some OJ kid who was coming for the first time Shin you know the story I know the story yeah he goes oh or either you or me and the kid got up and walked out of the room and and I I remember Dr reinfeld who used to come all the time psychologist I said something inside of me died at that moment you but this is the same whoes can I just interrupt okay that story with the sh of in BO Ari Waxman told me that afterwards he was his Rabbi he had brought him there he took him over to Raa Raa sat with him for an hour um I'm not sure how do how do you um not for me for sure yeah but but the boy came out showed him a bigger picture and took him to a different place well he bigger picture cuz he had a flash but but uh but how do you reconcile those two rmas now those are not the only contradictions I can give you for rmha who was such a multifaceted individual worked on so many different levels but how do you explain that one of the problems of me working on the safer is that and there were just generalizing there were like two camps about who was the main rebi that directed the way you thought was the Rev desla camp and the brisar RV camp with the brisar Rev also go RNA okay exactly because both the brisar and RNA had a tremendous emphasis on K exactly I mean by R hna you walked out backwards exactly you wore your head and jacket you know covered a t not because that's who he was right but that's how he held cover the T has to go and one of the things Raa believed that our door our postwar door could still have is some kind of a vision what cover the teror is all about he wanted very very much that there should be a sense of grander around and ter should be something that would be like for a simple Jew who just had had who had a university education who was intelligent but very weak in the world of Terror would see that terror is a totally different league and um and so he carried himself with with the cover of malus the word malus was a word that kept him coming up from all the people I spoke to when our friend Josh Harman took him to Prague I asked josua was the things that was like blew your way about risha's hanh when you were talking work around Prague so one of the things he mentioned was that whenever should walk the streets in Prague so all the non-jews over there they would literally like Camu they would just split they would look at him and would realize they're in the presence of somebody elevated and they would just let him go through and so he he believed very strongly he was what I don't know where I heard this story from he was getting on to an L flight you know and he's had security and they goes uh who packed your bags and he goes they're m yes the guy's like okay go ahead I've never had that experience security but I mean that's why he was he was sick of what was going on in panovich right you know because sick L gave him it gave him made him literally sick that story you know the lack of you know that this could go on he made an aifa there and one point to talk about K Tyra for exactly that reason because uh so so it's such an interesting thing because to a certain extent he was playing a role right you know he felt I have an obligation of cover but himself is one of the most laid-back people yeah you know we saw it fun we saw how we dealt with our own kids yeah I mean with our kids he was he was he was he was a Sabah he was like a fatherly kind of thing and bar you're Yak his stories to tell over yeah I mean but but I I know some stories of people working in kir and he was talking to non-ir people and there was this just this love and this acceptance and this like you know right just couldn't believe it right you know someone said I don't know where these kids they grew up from and now you know I don't know what to tell them I know is it he says they're right you want to take away everything in their life you better give them something and exchange and if you don't have something then you understand that they going to have a TI on you so but to have that level of understanding and tolerance for everybody is just and then at the same time you know come down like a ton of bricks yeah yeah but yeah which is of course an honor because if you came down in a ton of bricks you were probably a talid he probably was trying to build you as well I always tell the story you know if you said something stupid he rip you apart right rip really Mish just rip you apart you know in fact there was somebody who was with him when he was in Stamford and he was always he was always giving a very hard time and he says he says to him he says why are you always so hard on me so he says there's a Malik that stands over every blade of glare glass with a stick and hits it and says grow the way it grow is by someone standing over you with a stick and hitting you you heard this story sure I had who was it do you who it was I don't remember okay but I do remember another I when I was M first of all so let's go back I'm I'm totally out of order here he let's go back how did you meet Risha where did where did it start so my opening story is just segs exactly into what you're saying you know what I'm going to take you back further right you've done a little research into the life of right so he was born here in erville right his father he was a tel avivian he grew up in secular Tel Aviv and yeah and his father was was an Autumn God in his own right but a total t total hidden person and um he was a dying his father no he was a rebi in in Yesa in the L and uh he I heard a story that when he got married he told his father I don't want an apartment I just want you to put a frck is that true makes sense I've never heard that before that's what I heard yeah but his father his father was an extraordinary person one of the stories I bring down is that Risha during the Shiva told over that his father a himself was extremely extremely disciplined something happened I don't remember the story exactly something happened when he was a teen that risha's father took upon himself that whenever he wakes up in the middle of the night before he turns his head and goes back to sleep he would stand up next to his bed and then make a conscious decision remember his father was a kelmer right this is all about self-discipline and decide whether he needs to sleep now when you said remember he was a kelmer how in the world could I possibly have known that yeah this is a good point he's like of course he was a I don't know he was a kmer yeah he was very self-disciplined um towards the last Decades of his life he every single day did exactly the same thing risha's father would get up at um let's say um uh 11:30 at night and um he would go to sleep at say at 7 or 8 so he would sleep the evening hours and then he would go straight he would get dressed go straight to learn he would learn all night long until the morning hours um the joke was is that as he was passing ovich he was like the so the G would scream and say Sant Sant from like we need a 10th person he would say are you guys you're from yesterday I'm from tomorrow morning right there and he call me m um so the crazy crazy story was is that the last I don't remember exactly for the last few weeks of his life he was in the coma and the nurses said that they saw something unprecedented with r's father he said he would be there in his coma like literally coma toes literally but every night at exactly the same moment at 11:30 whenever it was remember the exactly 11:30 they would see him struggling with his bed sheet trying to get up in a coma so first of all that's K and secondly that's both the discipline that Raa had and the that Raa had cuz Raa was extremely hidden that he got from his father directly and uh rla was a family member okay so one second so now he's in secular Tel Aviv he goes to yeah so he he he told over when at his when his mother passed away he told over the Shiva that the greatness of his mom can't the exact date was he was 10 years old or 11 years old his mother sent him to land and uh until then he was in Tel Aviv until there was a there I have no idea till n till 9 years old that that did not make it yeah I don't think he he had stories he told stories about his neighbor that had dogsa was obsessed with with everything that included knowledge so when you talk about KB he spoke about his secular neighbor upstairs that had like half a dozen dogs and how the neighbor came back one day and said I left my dogs for three days and when I came back the senior oldest dog in that KRA gave me that like you know that like I'm angry with you so was talking about how Kev has personal and he described from his teenage years and from excuse me from his pre-teen years was a kid while he was in T aiv he he was beloved by the bells of re used the B had Tish about AR Bells you said t had a lot ofas in those days the famous story that RAB tat always tells over was with G in t the story about D dancing remember that story D was dancing and M said said this is how the greatest king of Israel this is how he behaves in front of the people he dances with a saf like a child like a like like a like a g like a like a like a like a goat and he said man he said he said do you think that this is what I could do I could dance much more and raish explains us know what he meant and you you heard this as a child from these G from V right these old G from V he said no no no he said do you think this is what I can hide from myself there are layers upon layers upon layers of hiddenness that I'm keeping away from the people don't worry it's still there so all these stories like to yeah he he you he only showed you as much as he wanted to show youas used that as a self-portrait of raisha that Raa said about dou explain to M that the real me is totally hidden that's why I named the SA for looking into the sun because we always felt that we never really knew what he was all about and we didn't every day last night last night I had another scoop can I say can I say my scoop it's a little controversial last night sitt controversy is what keeps the REI show going so a lot of things have come out since the book has been published probably a good thing because it probably should not be in the book but um the last two weeks I just came back from America and um Rabbi y y Jacobson who I spent half an hour with him he came to speak at yala and is why he sat down with me and said let me tell you stories about your Rabbi how does he know so Jackson is extremely broad he's extremely broad so he he he smacked that you can get a lot from he told me that that there's few people in the generation that knows like ra do which is very surprising because you know we had a story about that yeah okay this is not not everything is for the rabos show not everything okay not everything needs to be told and he said over that um probably his last shash T before he passed it was at the very end of his sickness he was staying in Mon and he was saying shus T in a um in a a basement Shore in in in Mon and there was like if I remember correctly it was 20 or 30 of us and he started talking it was very hard for him to speak and then shabas was over and he said to the do you mind if I speak a little longer so RAB w why said please okay we're all okay with it he spoke for another hour okay for another hour now RAB Jacobson is a genius he was a so he was able to remember everything I mely took out when he told me the story I says I took out my my WhatsApp notes I said um tell me over what he said so he I have a recording of risha's last last speech where he was speaking all this cabala stuff I had no idea what he was talking about I mely sent it to RAB rman I'm still waiting for R to give me a summary of all the stuff that he said is but it opened up another Vista um he R Jacobson said about incredible things that he said about the balat which we never heard we never heard this side of him about he said you know if if if if um if the Balan would have been around he said I would run to him in my pajamas right to be able to to be able to sit at his feet to learn some tah so that was something I heard complicated guy my it's about to get much worse yeah okay are you sitting down yeah I think so I'm not so sure we I should be saying this I'm probably going to regret this immediately afters but you know I only live once that's why you're on this show because here we have no filters yeah okay unfortunately yeah this is not okay I'm going to regret this but this is what I last night I went to hear sh from Rasha Weiss and next me is a z he's he's America America cook you know pay the whole thing the real thing a real and he sees I'm carrying the sa I bought it for someone he says you know Raa he was a big Tom he we knew that he says do you know he had a secret of cook so says says I don't believe he says well that's not so surprising because R cook was a was you know he was he was a big guy everyone agrees he was a big guy trust me it's surprising he said you don't believe me he say as schlonger which I plan to do because was one of the in in inner Circles of you know the inner inner inner Circles of Raa but you're right I mean Puttin himself used to have a picture of cook in his Suka but later on he took it away so I don't know certain thingsman had a in one of his from of cook and when they wanted to reprint the sa they said we want to leave out the he says then don't print the safe so so like there were people who were for political reasons they had a problem Etc but never cared about that kind of stuff he was so Politically Incorrect yeah but he as he mentioned earlier he knew his audience and he would say what the audience needed to hear right he was a for his audience he was speaking of benra someone told me this story one thing before I forget he said about rev cook he said r was the of kadus he said if you wanted to learn the Su of kadus he was the person that you go to really yeah he was speaking of Abra during the hitn right and he did a whole thing about you mean from Gaz from Gaza and he did a whole thing about the people in Gaza and and their m nees and and they were like go don't you tell me they have more than you and he just you know right which which uh he was extremely BR the one thing R MAA was terrified of was that he was going to get ridden up in the atate he said this goes what I have a my name tomorrow he works so hard to keep himself you know under the radar you know right right but that that was it he that's right I only know one Kor he ever signed yeah that we're both familiar with indeed indeed maybe we'll come back and talk about that one day but anyway but in general did everything he could to stay under the radar yeah he had towards the end of his life gur what's that called you know when he couldn't move yeah iot I know you're talking about G bar syndrome or something I it's from the doctor that took care of him bar syndrome yeah so this was when there was the big fight between a and and deel you know and the whole thing and Kanki called him up and said I want you to write a letter you know in favor of deel you know and against eights and he said he says Reby I literally can't hold a pen he couldn't move and I said to somebody afterwards it was such mule was paralyzed he says because otherwise I I couldn't say no to kki but but uh but I've stayed out of politics my whole life it was the last thing I wanted to do was to get involved but right right that was yeah all right so then he he goes to p right okay so going back now I'm trying to get I'm not very linear okay so he he was he wasn't he learned in lumja and and then afterwards he moved over at his peritz time he moved over to panovich and and then he stayed in ressler's house so this is where this incredible was you said it was was was a second cousin right but he was considered like a like a relative a close relative and um rler saw his potential took it upon himself to to build him I have quite a few stories between him and redes during that period um by the time he was 16 he had already learned sh kadus with Kusa with rla so um he again the rabbi gersfeld narrative right is that ressa was the one that built him and gave him this breath of being able to learn from everyone and he was 16 when rla was n right so that was just a very short no no no when his wife was okay I don't remember that's what someone told me I I didn't make the I'm I'm not good his wife his wife is next to the St with the I'm not sure of anything this is this is what someone told me he says he says he got he says he learned his Caba from desla but it had to have been in just a few years because they didn't know what year was n remember was are you listening I don't remember 1950s you know so figure howo was at that point you know okay yeah I never thought about that right that's what someone said to me once yeah I never wrote this book as a biographer keep that in mind I wrote this book to write his ter over the hard came out organically from he came from you know I mean so then then he's such like a he's such a broad complicated person but he came from spent years in the Mir he spent years in geld with with him and R tell it over it's a good one geld was teaching with in Hebrew University so someone ratted on him because there's always people like this you know that's that's why when he was telling the story of the ramal he was talking about you know how these people were persecuted you know when they you know there's always some Kano out there who decides to go after them so uh they red on regression Feld that he's teaching cabala to uh to you know secular college students so sent a message I want to see you runs goes help so says I'll go for you so he goes to he says I'm here to get a patch for my town but I understand you want to give him a PCH give the PCH to me because he's only doing what I told him so he says this is not our Mahal so he said he says to R what do you mean you and I heard the Mas say these things over in in pich says no no no no it's not ex that's the way I heard the story and and is an exaggeration that's how I heard the story desla yeah that's what I heard but there's no question that when he came in he he uh he expunged the desla from pavich and that's when he brought inat old time muser you know and that's why freedlander ran away cuz he was a he says I'm next you know and then he was 18 when was he was 18 okay there we go 18 18 when he was 18 most Superior years yeah it's enough him to get the Mah yeah so um so he uh uh so when when was nter so he asked for free land to come back he said but none of the deatha stuff he says I can't I don't know anything else oh was my Reby but uh but yeah his his his M andah when I was they said this is not our Mahal we we don't this not and and that's what Risha himself said to me he says he made it up so I actually went with r gersfeld we went to R Misha and we asked him how could you teach what you do on Thursday nights to you don't know the public and you're teaching literally the secrets of Terror and he answered this is a cabala that I have that is say h from rla that's what he says people on and he sad of cryptically said sometimes I wonder whether the HOSA still applies I have no idea what that means that's what he said I I guess it means if it's even worthwhile anymore could be you know it could be cuz he had a funny relationship with the Thursday night shoe was the only shoe he gave was open to the public right you know so someone asked him once how come I don't give my momas he goes what for his people want to look it up he goes really he says I think they just come here so when they go they could say I go to so a guy was there for like three years when he was leaving he said I want to thank you so much I gained so much from the sh he goes tell it to your wife he had a uh he had a he had a Consciousness that he didn't know who he was talking to and and who was showing up and and he had a certain suspicion that it was not necessarily the people that he was looking for I also think there was Mar momus I think it was who was more than that he he wanted people on the Thursday night sh to learn him because he had a he had a Mah that he wanted to teach the world he was very aware there was a machine that was recording him um he was for sure aware that um that one day he'd be 120 years old and as we see now there's a website called laav that has hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of his from Thursday night all on one website and um a scoop which is the last thing added to the saer literally it had already gone to press and they put it in a little footnote is that um a new saer came out 3 months ago um called um fromel cro basically he took the Thursday night shm and when he saw that there was a certain pattern that he kept him going back to he would combine them and wrote into a mimer which is going to be the Rema Shapiro um for on I think it's going to be the one that is going to make it in big numbers so um raisha told his family that if they ever write up the Thursday night sh they should call it because she is the word Shapiro but it's also gamis which was his beloved daughter that passed away and he wanted to give Clover to his daughter um which is by the way how the tahar sh began all right so you made reference to this earlier about that he lost his daughter and I thought we were going lineer you're right so he's in panovich now panovich then then what was he do in the Mir uh after he got married he was learning in the Mir who's the rabbitson who's rabbitson what's her story what um her father's RI um her father was um rash they had um people like Dian Fisher and went through that K so her father when he tested RHA tested him on K in sh and theni and things like that and Raa said said by the way you should know that he knows Mar the same way he knows shim but the point is is that she came from a very very very old ji family and she herself is brilliant are we allowed to talk about this well this is this is my show I can do everything nobody anyone who watches this knows they're in for the ride okay okay so so so the rabbitson was a lecture in Hebrew you I don't know why I'm saying this out loud in English literature L literature and philosophy um and philosophy yeah I mean how did that happen to you sh I I don't want to talk about this publicly but but risha's bathroom was a little English section you know like adventures and 19th century American literature and but Rosa didn't read them did he so did he read English claims that he was pretty much an expert and he knew the principles of American literally knowledge he was quoting stuff that says there's no way you could have known and there I remember somebody asked him once you're allowed to learn English literature he goes that's what I heard he was driving down foul staff in in Baltimore and um he turned to his driver he says you know false stuff you know what it's all about just no idea I'm don't know Shakespeare he always came out with these surprising lines you never know what he he picked up in between is this crazy thing somebody somebody somebody saw him when he was in Moscow reading a Russian newspaper or trying to read Russian figuring it out looking at the Russian writing but did he speak English he didn't speak English when he needed to speak English he spoke English shot how come he never spoke it's not an evolution it's a revolution he said that to was reasons a little motivation right so I I I was driving with him once uh me and Amy Ken son and you know I was just a driver you know so he'd say make a left you know go straight you so afterwards I said to I said to Amy I says he thinks I don't speak Hebrew he goes no he was showing off but uh I he never spoken English he never spoken English on principal because um he didn't want to speak a foreign language he would only speak in Hebrew and Yiddish but he in in America he would speak to people in English conversation if you listen to the MonDay share where our friends from AR went people ask him questions in English all the time and he would answer back in Hebrew and I actually have been listening now to the MonDay sh P seel sends them to me one of my travels and uh he he speaks a lot of English in that share he felt sorry for those Educators yeah he just was explain things to them in English Okay so he gets married right to to this how does the usami woman come to give sh in philosophy and English literature how does that happen to us shami girl um did she go to college I I have no idea I think I I and any Theory I have I think I'm just going to keep my mouth shut I heard the following story that somebody called him up a diant yeah we know this di right and said um I want to send my daughter to M but I'm afraid it'll hurt for he says it will says but you sent your daughter to Yale now who's that Colombia it was Colombia who's that how come his daughter went to Colombia oh wait finish the story okay so he but you send you to Columbia he says when your name is Mos sh you can do that too yeah exactly but why did what how did his wife get into a lecture in Hebrew University in English literature and how did his daughter go to Columbia what's have to be very careful over here this is a different age and different types of people um you go you see BJJ Ritson Ritson David so she had students that went on to Ivy Le colleges and would marry rash shivas so it was a little bit of a different type of a personality that could juggle both ends and uh they could go into a university cuz you would never know it when you meet the rabbitson yeah that she's lecturing in Hebrew University she was such thei rabbitson right that you would never you would never sense it right and she and she was also a loving mother and Bobby to us to us when we were when we were B um so her home was I'm one of six boys and uh so there no girls so we were expected to join in with all the housework and stuff like that so I did not know how to sit through a suda my mother would say okay it's the maid's day off we'd get up we would clear we would serve Etc so I was very popular Shop's guest when I was a b because I didn't know how to to thre a meal I would right away start clearing that you know anyway so when I was there for perm I would start clearing off the table and bring things in the Ron says to me you know no no no I do that and I said I'm sorry I had a poor my mother didn't bring me up that way I don't know how to sit a so not help you know what I mean but uh she that was there I just tell you the last time she spoke to me the last before Raa died and since then we've spoken about the last before Raa died I came to the house with an invitation I think it was for my daughter Shar to invite him to the wedding and she saw what was happening and she called me says listen do me a favor he says my husband he gave his whole life to you and your friends he was always there for you now you have to give back to him do me a favor and don't try and make him come to this wedding he's not well enough but she was completely and totally fully aware of what he was doing um not a th% for example during the Gulf War um I knocked on his door to ask M sh if I could fly to South Africa for my niece's wedding and he says he said I don't know what's going on but since the Gulf War has began Rish is being like very mysterious he has some kind of a kabor where they they're doing Special fos and and all kinds of like stuff and so I don't know where he is half the time since the War Began and I realized oh my gosh okay so his wife does not know where he's hiding off with his cabala friends but in general they were a team um I actually have a memory of seeing them walking on her herel the two of them were going for a walk together just seeing the two of them she it's a beautiful see an aam godle and his and his ishola wife just going for a stroll and that mountain there which we go the shortcut between I Enough by the gun I uh uh you know when you when you look and how he approaches things and uh his concern it's just amazing that he has time to talk to people you know like you talk about the invitation I I was very conscious I would not Haw R mha you know there were people would Haw him I wouldn't Haw him if I needed him you know it was desperate if you're old enough to remember from 1970s I think it was or the 19 it was a TV show called The A Team you know if you need them and you can find them there're the 18 that's how I felt like you know if I really need to talk to him you know so um I show up the Friday sheare once and I gave him an invitation to right my daughter's wedding so he says I said no no no I I don't expect you to come you know I have no I have no expectations I said it's a cover for me to give you an invitation to by do his he did come to when your son y so he said he says I said that's he said and he showed up M late at night when it was like the end we were cleaning up you know he was like I told you I would come and I was like oh I didn't want to make you come I daa did it not not for him to come I just want to give him an invitation you know not to not to to do it beforehand you know yeah he he I don't know how he did it he showed up everywhere he was everywhere at the same time I remember once he was on the way to the airport and he told the driver stop up nist's making a Mitzvah right he came in he said he didn't even come in he just came in I think it was D may may was giving his um his Russia he stood in the back he said afterwards he said you should know I came in I heard your son's Russa but I had to run to catch the plane he says your son he spoke like a senator yeah so um yeah he he was and oh wait a second that wedding that wedding that he didn't come yeah he called me up I sudden he see the phone I see it's him and I it's crazy how did he know you his wife wouldn't give him the invitation I don't know how it happened he knew about the wedding and and I I ran out of the wedding hall and he gave just a few Bros and he was there for me oh I have another scoop yeah another scoop ronon ronon is the the the pilot that DS with us in re rubena so Ronan made a wedding the same day that y Isel got married so Ronan told me he says you know that uh that raisha apologized to me that he was going to go to my son's wedding and not his son's wedding he says because Yak is who today has his amazing Yesa he say Yak has an independent relationship with me and I'm going for Yakov that's what he told me so R around told me she know I got the better end of the deal cuz emoi felt so bad afterwards he popped up at one of the Chev rockas and then we asked him to speak and he spoke and he stayed there quite a while so who got the better deal wow yeah yeah raisha was like I don't know he was it was I don't know how he did this this uh where's where's Willy Wonka I don't know how he did where's Waldo I don't know how he managed to pop up everywhere all the time at the right places but he has some kind of a magic he had some abilities to do these things okay so so then he goes to the mirror right and he just learns in the mirror I just want you to know that um he did not just learn in the mirror okay the my opening Story the opening story in chapter one which is the section of Terror which is the hardest thing for me to write because I wanted people to know that raish is not just the KV and the person that did this whole Revolution and and Outreach his his ability to TI Torah to everything right to me was we you mentioned earlier our friend Z Redman right yeah who's who's one of the few people I ever sort of Mara speak to with respect take seriously because I was not one of them in you know I was thinking about how he used to yell at people and put you know he was always so nice to me super nice and people noticed it so he says how come he never yells at you he says cuz he knows I'm a baby said I won't cry I'll just die I'll just have go I'm full the floor die he yell I never forget when you came in that P him to his house yeah do you know what he said about you the funniest Rabbi in the world so that's how I introduce you and I said to him but you're always depressed and porm you know I said you used to get depress and porm do I remember that you know well yeah raisha said you know says you know why he gu that he's the only one that really understands what PM is all about sure it's it's it's just a holocaust just didn't happen but a holocaust but um uh but he saw the sign up in the jle so like I think I had spoken to Z beforehand about me coming to the Tuesday sh whatever it is and he says you know damsky he goes k k is the funniest Rabbi in the world so I said I said was he making fun of me he goes no he was jealous cuz he holds he's the funniest Rabbi in the world wait wait a second wait let me let me well let's get back to the before we get to the mirror let's get back to you because you did write in my book the section about about his humor I didn't write anything in your book you did I've never seen your book there's a chapter you can't it's in print You Can't Hide Rabbi I'm look you gave me a copy cuz cuz I have one copy of the book that I supposedly wrote that I never wrote I only have one copy that someone gave me that's all I got there a chapter C laughter okay one of the things I did in my book was I hid behind people because I wanted to try and get as many people to speak in their own voice that way I could if I said something controversial so it wasn't me no but also it's very hard because there's there's a 100 different to 100 people you see 100 different like I told you you know there's just different so I have Raa described by yeshu and describ have different people from different things and then they have the the the the French Ron him speaking about him and the and and the Russian the point I want to make is you the one who told me that in the Friday sh I feel sorry for our listen they we both have adds this is not normal they they know what they're in for otherwise they could go and listen to somebody else on tour anytime this is the only thing in the world like this there's nothing like this in fact somebody said something that was deeply meaningful to me because I felt it too they said I saw a lot of um different interviews with uh niss black because but I never saw him like like he was with you it was it was a different kind of thing so that's how I feel that that we do something special here I really do you get me to say things I regret that's why what we try to do to do we've destroyed many a career in this rowski show but um but uh I I thought it was you told me in the Friday year that before they would start Josh Hartman would just sit there and tell jokes just whatever jokes he had you know yeah so uh yeah that was incredible so most of the listen there was only once that I heard jok he took just because it was [Music] funny it's the rabbi orlovski show Torah and S ready to go the rabbi orlovski show knowledge and wisdom will help you grow lots of fun in every episode and we don't have to rhyme no we don't it's the rabbi orlovski show on Rabbi ori. 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