Parshas Shemos: Where To Be Buried? Part 2 - Moses Montefiore, and the Rebbe of Karlin

this Torah class is brought to you by Torah anytime.com so um I have to tell you it's really miracle that I made it here tonight there was PTA tonight they had a 720 and 7:30 appointment last week was also PTA and this week is also PTA so last week was a late PTA so I made the sh a little later this week I figured 720 730 appointments I should have known better so I was in farak it was 808 and I was on my way back so I'm good with if I take the exact same route that I've taken every every single day then I'm pretty good not getting lost however the second I Veer off to you know a route they never went on it's I'm big trouble sure enough on my way back the garbage trucks were having the root because since yesterday was kug now the garbage trucks were out the entire Street was blocked off so I had a decision either wait behind the garbage TR or make a left and so I made a left and I was immediately lost in farak K I was in Wyoming all of a sudden the car in front of me stops the guy runs out and he opens up his trunk he's looking for washer fluid I I I stopped I honked him I said come over here Ellie ruin from North Ware I said I'm lost he said how are you lost you're black away from Dar I said believe me I'm lost I'm lost he he said just make a right he said forget it just follow me just follow me and he he navigated me back here safely okay so here we are um we have very nice tonight so obviously has nothing to do with the food because we always have good food it must be the topic of death which is a very popular topic here word must have gotten out that I'm speaking about burial and death again and people cannot resist I know is coming and people figure this would put them in the proper frame of mind as these are ahead of us this year we have two adors so I guess we have more month more weeks to talk about K two parts year exactly okay so let's start with the following um last week we learned that clearly being married n is an important in to the extent where even though one is not exume a body and we haven't explained yet why why can't you diser a body even though Hally one is not allowed and we'll discuss this week what the reason for that is but even though you're not allowed to to exume a body and move a body to Isel is M so clearly there's an important inion and there's value to be burying being buried in is we spoke out last week rhenen discouraged the practice of being buried in Earth is he felt um that first the person has to worry about so to speak the meat and potatoes theim of Judaism and then they could worry about things which are maybe a or or something you know above and beyond so let's begin this week with the opinion of rakov ketki I got an email from my good friend in jger who's the author of a very um valuable Series in called guidelines you ever see the S guidelines they're like uh 20 30 many many very so emailed me RAB glad you know RAB ketki said I didn't know I didn't know what rakov says so he emailed me the biography of rakov now whenever you see a biography you know it's not what Rak wrote It's not like a this is a story so you sort of take it for what it is that rakov ketki says he was not for those who wanted to be buried in meaning he did not uh he did not support the idea of being buried n and you know it's one thing to for someone to say they don't support it but uh we in our a few months ago we went to rak's Kev right rakov bought a burial spot here in Queens and and he was not buried in he was buried here in the United States and he did not approve of the practice for three reasons number one number one says the mess is kept overnight the mess is not treated in the proper dignity and then rakov said something that seems uh not to be relevant at all B man that is apparently in Israel at some point maybe in the early days of the state they would actually drain the body of blood before it was brought in and that was a so says you want to be the by bringing the M but the whole procedure was a a disgrace for the dead body and therefore Rak did not approve of it clearly that's not something to be concerned with today there no there's not no such practice not in America not in Israel to drain the body number two says ROV I'm just going to say it don't attack me don't challenge me I'm just telling you what it says in the says being buried in supports the notion of Zionism and therefore he did not support it okay and you know just leave it as it is and finally the third reason no this is rakov kamki okay and um the third reason rakov gave and a very interesting reason is says there's a Mitzvah on the children to visit the the parent the the deceased to go during the during the and this is Aus for the children to do chva and therefore if the parent is buried far away the children will not be able to to be M this Mitzvah frequently and therefore said he personally bought a burial spot here in America for the above mentioned reasons it's hard to believe though RAB it's hard to believe that these reasons are um are relevant on hard to believe these Reas are relevant practically man the first reason of n you know nowadays 200 what year are we in 18 still right they have the procedure down pretty well you know if somebody's going to be buried they make sure they get on the plane rather quickly the qu the planes are refrigerated inad doesn't full around go straight to the the Bak far so it's pretty seamless regarding supporting the zionis movement you know we're basically 70 years later even in Ben on a bris on they're not saying even though originally in the you know even on a day that there was a bris they would say so that means you know the the these political reasons are uh basically in the back I mean as far as I'm concerned they're in the back the rearview mirror and um regarding the third reason flag yeah the regarding the third reason that there's a mitzvah for children to visit the graves of their parents is there really a mitzvah for children to to visit the graes of the parents which which Mitzvah is that which one of the 6 613 Mitzvah is that it's not we in the gamar does it say where where in the gamar does it say that there's um a Mitzvah to visit the parents grave there's no such it's not mentioned in the gar where in the medish does it say it's a Mitzvah to visit a parents grave it's not mentioned in fact there's a very interesting Chua for Raa Raa got a Chua from that the parent was was buried in akan where is akan wow what a knowledgeable audience okay so and the children the children lived in New York where is New York okay newy and there you go good audience tonight okay the holiday the holiday cheer okay so um and the children were lived in New York and uh the children found it very difficult to travel to akan for the yart side or for whatever other occasion and they wanted to move the parin from to New York so they could be able to visit say you know sorry to burst your bubble but visiting a parent is not it's not you are not honoring your parent by visiting their grave they it makes no difference to them you do come you don't come it's not it's not CID to the parent says ra it's convenience to the children the children want to go so you're making your own life easier but you're not honoring your parents by bringing them close to you so that you could go visit them says going to the is not a there is no to go to moreover not only is there no brings says one should not go to cemeteries period that's by the way also holds that way then unless you're aad and Mak you don't go a cemetery so now now I once spoke to there you go anyway the vagun also what yeah exactly so um so brings down from that one should not go to so to say what reason yeah for what what are you going you know yourself we don't know you knowel says something we don't know exactly what his rationale is either you're you're Contracting kipo you're Contracting that's even is to go to but to say that you're allow to move a mess in order to go to k why don't you think the other way maybe there's no to go maybe you shouldn't be going so even though the Min is to go but you're not to move the Kev to make your life easier because you want to go to the Kev says so is saying you shouldn't be buried in because then the children can't be the Mitzvah visiting the parents ra would say it's not even a Mitzvah is bued but that's a story in it of itself okay um there's a lot of information about that but um we'll see if we'll see if it's mentioned in today's share if you want to know more my good friend rebelar kohen has very interesting information about R Kev um that he called me about this week but let's stick to the maros today and that is againa seems not to really take seriously the mitzah visiting Kev otherwise he doesn't now I would say that it's not really between and you know if you want to know is there an IND to go visit says there's a Mitzvah and says there's no Mitzvah I would assume they both agree they both agree there's no Mitzvah in the to visit they both agree there's no to visit and they both agree there's no to visit but I would assume that they would both agree that when a child goes to visit it's them maybe it's them to do CH it's introspection it brings up the memory of the parent which could could Inspire somebody to improve their ways so I assume it's a nice thing to do maybe it's a way of showing the family you're cover to a parent so I would assume everyone would agree it's a and I assume everyone would agree it's not a and it's not a but as this is just um just to get the Indian clear now there's another interesting Shah if you remember last what didn't want to that could be but that's not one of the reasons that's mentioned there right that's what they say right that's what they say okay last week we spoke out the truth of the Mal Malak said that even though you're allow to um exume a body and bring to is if the person explicitly said they don't want to be buried in is you can't move them if a person expressed displeasure about being moved to Isel and they just said like they don't hold of it then you are allowed to move them toel that was what we learned last week so there was a great philanthropist maybe one of the all-time great philanthropists Moses monori who is greatly responsible for the rebuilding of Y in Israel today he actually traveled to Israel and lived a good chunk of his life there and at the end of his life he requested to go back to England and he died and was buried in England in Kent in fact when I spoke in London last year so we gave a Shear about RTO and so I wanted to go to the name of the is AIS Mark synagogue so I went to the synagogue and in the front row there's a little plaque that says here is the the K of Moses man Fury so he went to his seat anyway Moses matur was buried in Kent and a lot of Jewish activists wanted uh Reiner him and bring him to bual in is a number of have been brought to is most notably shapo okay okay so um the question was brought to are you allow to move the body of of mes M Fury and bring him to and Anda said absolutely not you're not to do it why he says you're not to exume a body it's also to exume a body saysa he says now he says a very interesting thing he says I'm not going to explain at length while we're now to move Moses m cuz whenever somebody asks you a sh if you give them a long answer then they're going to think oh it's Tako a long answer it's a whole sh that's the R's opinion is it's a but the fact that he gave me a whole long answer means there's a Shar there must be another Viewpoint let me ask another Rabbi so any time that um something is a you have to say a why none of your business because once you start explaining then people are going to think then you know there's something to talk about so sometimes it's not it's not correct to get involved in a long answer that and ra says in this situation I don't want to start giving reasons I don't want to start giving explanation then you're going to think there's nothing to talk about he says there's an of which is um applies you're now to move a body even to is says you are allowed to move a body to is so a very interesting thing the children are allowed to bring the body toel but what if I decide one day you know there's a nice Rabbi buried in Queens I think I want to bring him toel so I'll go to the cemetery dig him up bring him to what do you got of here I got the you know I think he should go to says there's an indan to bring bodies to is imagine what kind of trafficking you're going to have you know people deciding on their own only the children are authorized to be to honor the to bring them to says to bring Moses man to is why Moses man he's a great guy he's bigger than uh the marami rotenberg he's bigger than he's bigger than he's bger all these are buried in Europe so why are you bringing him and them it's who are buried in to pick a philanthropist and a great man and somebody who we have a lot of but on the totem pole of he's not as as therefore it's a for the to bring Moses Fury and not to bring other says Moses mon did not want to be buried in is you know Moses if he wanted to be bued then when he was like hundred years old he should have said okay I'm an old man I'm going to stay in is die in be buried in but when he was already he decided to pack out of and go to because he wanted to be buried in that's akin to somebody expressing a clear opinion they don't want to be buried in they want to be buried in and then like the said if somebody clearly expresses their desire to be buried in then we cannot violate their opinion it says my opinion you have to leave him there his desire was to remain there and you can't violate that so first of all we see a few things we see that if you want to bring you need to be their child and you can't violate their will but it does seem that even though it's BR I'll tell you the truth um I saw quoted in the Journal of um contemporary volume 36 but I couldn't get my hands on it that Ra was not in favor of being buried in is and that the reason why he was buried in is is because one time when a certain God was buried in expressed that you're burying a so they felt that held that only should be buried in and that's what is brought over there why Ra was was buried in is but it's hard to believe that that that's the case because um there's a new safer out from Raa theusa actually they came out with volume three now this is volume two there's a fascinating Shila okay listen to the following scenario rosi gets a phone call there's a guy who bought family plot in uh one place in America let's say uh pick a place on Long Island Wellwood okay they vote on Wellwood okay so he bought a plant on in Wellwood yeah his whole F his parents were buried on The Jackie and during his lifetime every time he went to he came back he said you know what it's a to be buried in but he didn't write in his where he wanted to be buried so we know he bought in Wellwood his parents are in the Jackie and he he expressed that it's a to be buried is and now the person passes away we don't know where to bury him where should we bury him the family says should we maybe bury him in Isel should we bury him near his parents should we bury him where he bought kka like what's the strongest indication of what the right thing to do is says what a person bought has no value in he bought real estate maybe he bought it for um a guy he didn't like in SCH I don't know we don't know who who he bought it for or even if he bought for himself maybe he bought for the guy who didn't invite him right we don't know exactly what uh the guy bought the guy bought land should we move him to his parents no you don't you have to BR you don't have to bring him to his parents there's an indion there's a you allowed to exume somebody to bring them to is it's a to bring him to is you bury him in is despite the fact his parents are in a despite the fact that he bought B you take him to to say Raa didn't hold of being buried in I mean clearly he holds it overrides where you bought K and it overrides where your parents are buried okay so this year I'm doing backward usually I I I I like to do this year forward start off in the gar start then the so today we went backward we started with the story books then we went to the CH now we're going to the Bas what's the reason a person you're not exume a body from their grave what's the reason for that why can't you exume body so we would say in the says that um it's n it's n you take out a body you know he's he's being consumed he's decomposing his um you know he doesn't look the same as uh he's not all made up you know the person is in a very very um unseemly State it's a ni to dig up the body that's what we would have said and there is such a but the B brings a totally different reason says it's disturbing for the mace cuz the mess thinks that he's being summoned to the bz Shala cuz the last time you know somebody ever you know shook up the mess where did the mess go they stood in front of the to give they stood by the they got grilled no no you deal own business honestly you know they scared The Living Daylights out of the mess the last time anybody ever shook up the mess and now all of a sudden the mess feels the shovel and it gets the mess very nervous in fact the brings down by you know he said why do you Squad you scare me to summon me right he was summoned with necromancy and he got scared because he thought he was being summoned again to the bz sh so the brings a that the reason you're not exume a body is because it is very disturbing to the mace he says first of all your M your M the ma and the best is m he thinks he's being summoned to court again so basically some actually break up these two reasons that one is B it's confusing doesn't know where he is you know he's used to um you know you know how there's an expression in world to rest in peace you know usually we think that's not a Jewish uh concept you rest in peace you go to and you know you're in the and you're from there is a concept there is such a concept you want somebody's it's a it's a time of it's a time and you don't want to disturb their man there is such a concept and there's also a concept you're you're scaring them that they're being summoned to DIN and there's a concept of n however Comes Who Um wrote the the classic work on a called and he brings a that when it comes to after the the flesh has decomposed he says in his opinion these reasons don't apply first of once all the flesh is decomposed it's not ni n is when you could recognize the person and the person doesn't look kempt but if you can't even recognize the person because the person is a skull is just at that's not n and he says it would be M to um to reenter a person once they're at what about the of he says once the body decomposes the the the the Goof is not afraid anymore maybe he can't be summoned anymore to the din or he already suffered whatever his fate would be and the a cha and this is I bring on the sheet over here in number seven that once the body decomposes Theus of n do not apply the of and usually when G are moved they wait until uh until the body has already decomposed okay and what so actually so yeah yeah so we mentioned last week from the Z the Z's opinion was the Z didn't hold of going to is because your M the land that's why the Z says y was until he waited until he's only at some right okay therefore but that they used to take the after the lace was decomposed they took the bones and they put small little yeah so yeah and the smaller on but that went by the size of the hi and that's big it was made you'll see them so we're going to see that that um there are cases where G had a spot where they would put the body until it was n and once it wasak then all the it's one to one central location for it's a niil for the mess for the mess itself the mess itself ni h n is you it's part of okay there's a ch right but ultimately the body decomposes no yes but it takes longer what's the issue it takes longer yes takes longer takes longer I think they do it for sanitary reasons okay so basically though there is an iny very in fact in this CH over here in number eight in number eight there's a very interesting cha the rebel the Admiral of Carin was nter in America and um his opinion was he let it be known that as soon as he he passes away he wants to Buri in is but some of the want to they didn't want the rebel to go to and the shil was brought to then one of the Frank the so he brings that the is that even if someone's buried already in allow to bring them to is K someone who wasn't even buried yet the car so he wasn't even buried of course we're going to bring him to it's a big Mitzvah it's a big in especially he said he wanted to if he would have said he didn't want to you can't violate his R but he said he wanted to and therefore based on that they found the of the and they brought the re of kin to okay so now now we're done with as a as a before they didn't bury him alive they were they waited until he the people I know that went there well a day or two before they know they going so they put them on a plane went no no he was already uh he was already mess I don't know okay now the sh is like this so there's an indion to be buried in what about y now this is twofold twofold is if there's an indion to be buried in should person try to meaning is it worth the extra is it more value to be buried in that's and if it's Tak be buried in okay we're going to come to that right could you exume a body that's buried in outside of to bring the body if Y is a more of a the same way some can say the reason why you Exum a body from a husband could force a wife or vice versa to go to well if you're living in um if you're living in you're living in you could force your spouse to come to well if you could do that maybe you could do that maybe we could start digging up you know outside of and bringing them to this was the question that was raised and brought to the attention of thear and he says the following somebody was asked the ramban look at number nine brings down someone asked the rambam that uh somebody expressed their desire to be buried in is and after the person died the children put in effort and they brought the parent to be buried is this a good thing and the r answered and many well the words include two things number one it's to be buried in and number two it's to be buried as we know that many have been buried now why does the r WR the answer is because you're not allowed to bring a mess into y you're not be buried in that's why the raah says okay now says the raan is that there's a special IND to be buried by how do we know that where do we see that so he doesn't cite the ran clearly we're going to come to in the further chuva but he brings many examples from the Chas of the rvas the rvas was the ren Cairo in Egypt for 40 years he was the rebi of the Aral and in many shilas of the RAS he discusses so why does he discuss exing a body to if there's no inion of bearing in the whole in is burying in is why does theas always formulate his question of burying apparently the RAS hold there's something special about being buried next to Y now take a look in number 10 where the quote to ran and the ramban says the following ran says if you look in Alf on the second line the he emphasizes the of being brought up to the says that there's a special K and there's a special of being buried near Yim in fact okay so what is that inion why is there an inion to be buried near isine what would be significant or what's the na where you're buried in Isel so if you remember the gar said that the whole purpose one of the advantages of being buried in is thear says it the land brings kapara so the land brings kapara whether you're buried in in a in you know Galil or in why would it be M more we learned that if a person's buried in you're save the the rolling why are you so what will the advantage of be you know if the whole point of being is kapar provides equal kapar if it's you're saved from Rolling underground every area of should be equal we did see the the that if someone's very you're Sav from so what difference does it make you know or none of the advantages that were mentioned seem to be more advantageous in however says since say that anyone buried in is buried then the closer you could get to the perhaps there's a more of an in in other words in order to maximize the concept of anyone who's buried in like being buried near the M perhaps the closer you could get to the m would be preferable and then the says there's an incredible reason to be buried near it's a okay and that's what we're going to see very soon by the way the sh um vosner he also discusses this this this indion of being buried in but he says if taka there's an in of being bur maybe then we could you know dig somebody up exume somebody and bring them to so he says something fascinating take a look at number 11 the sh says that he ques that says had a a borrowed grave in yav that they would put the mess there and then they would bring the mess up to Y and the ran quotes it and the ran as brought down says it's a k and a to bring him up from to so from here we see is more of a k it's more of a kid the ran himself is not buried in your how do you know course buried in in in not in Spain he's buried in next to outside that was there set his name on okay so that now the question is like this so if there's a Milo to be buried in but you're not to be buried in so if the mil is so there's a mil to be buried mean you could make the case there's a mil to be buried in Jerusalem but now we're going to say there's a Mila to be buried near yusim well then you know that would expand the parameters you know is um is um is that cuz now you don't have to be buried in because you're not even allowed to be buried in so so says look in the second paragraph you're gonna say he says but if it's not what's the advantage so he could say you know there's a famous in that you're only allowed to be in what's Yehuda so Rashi says Yehuda is y but the says that Yehuda refers to the whole area of Yehuda so it could be says that the whole shet Yehuda has a special kadha what's the kadus you're allow to be there so could be it has special in terms of however says the truth is there's a very um mystical and Powerful comment of the tarum on and based on this tarum there would seem to be a very big inion to get as close as possible to Yim as one can especially to something called the but says as valuable and as is to be buried near I would not say that there's a het to exume someone from someone from elsewhere in is and bring them we don't find that the it's not in any of the but I want to share with you this amazing t Okay the t is going on says who is this coming out of the desert beseeching banging for her beloved Under The Apple Tree I aroused you there your mother bore you they are the one who um gave birth to you conceived you you ever hear the expression um rejoices with her children you know in the talks that gave birth so we usually understand to mean it's allegorical it's figurative you know when clo returns to sh it's as ifon gave birth but actually the tarum translates this very literally you know for for a woman to give birth that means the birthing Canal opens and the child comes out of of something that has been split so what exactly what would that mean when it comes to Y Yim is split it opens there's a birthing canal and so the tarum says amazingly yes the day will come that you shall will literally give birth to her children that there's a birthing canal and it will split open and beer the Jewish people so what's the birthing Canal what's the split so we all know from theim that we have a prophecy that there is an area right outside of Y that one day will split in half and there'll be two sides and that is har the Nim speak at length about the the one day har will split in half and now what so now splits in half what's going to happen so there's an incredible t look at number 13 thei said in the future the mountain of Olives will split and all the dead will emerge you could have even buried in G even the guy buried in aine right they're going to pop out of that hole and all of a sudden the hole is going to open okay they're coming push push right and all of a sudden it's a big one it's a 200 pounder it's a 300 pounder and it's going to be one after another after another and after C is going to be giving birth it's going to be a long birth it's be a painful birth but will give birth to her children and what about the they're going to be thrown like a stone then all the resents of say what was the Merit of was able to give birth to the number of Jews that came out of the midbar how many Jews came out of the midbar 600,000 Jews harim is going to give birth to 600,000 y say that's a lot it's nothing you know in SAS today how many how many Jews are buried in SAS I think there's a m 1.2 million Jews are buried there and that's that's a relatively small base is much bigger but it okay now you have to understand one thing it's going to be a day of Mercy that's why thei Compares it it's compared to the ascent out of the crevice of har is going to be like the Jews standing in the midbar standing on Hari listen to these beautiful words at that moment he she's the mother of to give birth to her children will receive so says the says the look at the words of if so if the whole reason to be buried in is now think realize carefully nowhere does a tarum say that only if you're buried on will you have he doesn't say that he says very clearly even buried in they will pop through the crevice on har but instead of popping through the crevice I guess it's an advantage to have already been there and to be there but says the the um sh since the whole purpose of being is to facilitate if that's the case the closer you could get to the ultimate destination of which is that has value but you cannot take a body out of out of out of and bring the body to Har that is not found in the poim but is there an advantage of being buried in har yes is it worth the money that's a personal decision you know by the way if you want a spot on harim speak to me I got a call from the harim society they have good spots on UMAS for excellent price okay how much I can't say publicly I'll tell you afterwards okay so um is it an advantage says yes are you you're not um you know R henin said maybe they're better things to spend your money on but you know everyone has to make their own personal decision one thing is for sure even buried but their ultimate destination all by the way you know the famous uh Maxim all underground tunnels lead to Har that's the way it goes right all tunnels lead to okay but if somebody cannot be buried in so there is a Min we saw it last week I think in that you put some of the dirt of is into the K so this is discussed by the where he uh sort of challenges this custom first of all take a look at number 14 he says many have a that they take a bundle of dirt from and dirt from har now don't think it's going to you know get you to the get you there sooner but that's a it's now where do you put the dirt okay nobody should have to find out but the first spot is under the mess and whatever dirt left under the head now some scatter some of the dirt on the body on the under the Talis and some even put it on the face and on the forehead and on the eyelashes and on the bris okay and that's BR the same for that if you have offer marel you put it under the mess you put it on the bris you put it on the eyes you put it on the ey says but we're that the clothing of the mess be pristine and clean and not have any stains on it and therefore most people only put the dirt under the head there is still a Min to put it on the face because of the school of and this is based on the Yami now we saw the Yami last week the Yami says sh shami is bothered why you taking a mess which is T and being with a dead body so the since once it gets is you take dirt you put it on the mess and it's that's because you're being buried in but what good is it to take dirt out of and bring it to that's what does that dirt do I'll ask you I'll ask you you take dirt in a flower pot and you put it in America no it's considered like planting no you take a boat you fill it up with the dirt of the boat is docked outside of no what do you mean it's the dirt of there's no such thing as dirt of is we don't care about dirt of is we care about where you are if you're in you could have the dirt of you're in if you're in the question let's say a guy is buried in a is and they took dirt from America is it is it a SC it's not of it doesn't go by the dirt it goes by where you are it goes by the a not the says yeah you could take dirt from America you take dirt from the five towns even the five towns you could bring it to is and plant and so it doesn't matter what the dirt is it goes by where you are so what good is it you're going to go to Har take dirt bring it to America it's not doing anything it's not it's not so the says but still even though it's not the dirt of even though it's not really in um and it's not considered burying an Isel he says it could be is is dependent on a combination of dirt and air and if you have one without the other you don't have the full a other the and the and the demonstration of your love that you still have and it could be that it's still um it still has value hence the that despite being in it still has value using the dirt in is come back carry that from America back and and yeah so he says also there's a rule you know um a cabalistic rule a IAL rule a metaphysical rule everything always returns to its source so if you take dirt out of is it's like you know it's eventually going to return so it's more like a so as these are some of the about is and um the objective is to stay on the outside of the bakar for as long as possible and uh ultimately a person should uh sooner or later you know make the decision where they plan on um being having a we see to the this was something that very to them and we should all be to the time of you've just experienced another Torah class brought to you by Torah anytime.com