Parshas Pinchas: The Royal Purple and the Biblical Blue - Rav Herzog Challenges Radziner Techeles

this torah class is brought to you by torahanytime.com okay brookhome welcome everyone tonight is our pent ultimate share on the topic of trailers the second to last share on the topic of trailers last week we learned about uh we veered off for one week previously we learned about the radzina reba's discovery of the cuttlefish which is uh the official terminology for the cuttlefish as we'll see is the sepia officialis we're going to very important to remember that and comes rav herzog and rev herzug in an academic sense studied extensively the research of the radina rabba and the opinion of herzog was that he completely debunked and shattered any basis that in fact radzina rather had discovered actual trellis now uh we begin with the marama coin one of the poison revolve your son the yakut yosef reviews like destroyed most of the proofs of the radhina rebbe vikkava menachem and reverse doug maintained that it was a completely different specie now in order to really understand we're doing the topic of queles so you got to do it right if you want to understand what herzog's opinion was we need to get some background as to who rav herzog is what his the way he grew up what he studied what he learned how he learned how he approached his topic and then we'll get a little bit of an insight as to his approach on the indian of trailers so we have over here a small biographical sketch of uh revision kurtzag review now this biographical sketch is in a very rare book in fact i was the reason why we did not discuss three less last week is because i was scanning the globe to find this book literally trying to come up because any any time you do research on the topic of trailers all the scholars quote the famous safer of herzog that is called the royal purple and the biblical blue now what exactly is this book well in 1913 rav herzog wrote his doctorate his dissertation his thesis in ireland about the topic of trellis he wrote it very in shorthand he wrote it in his own handwriting somebody found the paper it was never published and it was very very difficult to publish it was published many years ago and the publisher had a very hard time actually reading the words so much of it is educated guesswork as to what herzog meant to write but very hard to get a hold of this book if you want to buy a brand new copy of the book it's over 150 so searching for a a used copy seeing if maybe in one of the libraries in new york they had a copy of this there were two copies in new york and it wasn't really that possible to actually go there they weren't gonna let me take it out go there you know memorize the book and then write it write it over what am i gonna do so finally somebody offered to sponsor a copy of the book so we're gonna dedicate the year in honor of my good friend mr david kalas who was able to order a copy of rev herzog's dissertation it's called the royal purple and the biblical blue and i'm going to give you a momento in a moment for everybody to uh to take a look at well this this biographical sketch appears in this book the royal purple and the biblical blue and it writes like this rabbi isaac khalifa herzog was born in 1888 in lumber poland where his father rabio herzog was served as a rover in poland 1897 he's nine years old the father accepted an appointment as a rabbi in leeds england okay so you can imagine a rav in a shtetl in poland becoming a rabbi in england then with rabiot's appointment as a chief rabbit or orthodox community in paris in 1911 the family moved there so that's quite a movement right from a shtetl in poland to leeds england to paris thus it came about that rabbi isaac herzog while growing up in three different countries had unusual opportunities for a broad education of which he took ample advantage he became well-known a well-known judaic scholar while still in his teens he was ordained he was given smikha by the rid baz who's the red baz riddhas is the classic commentary on the usami ridbaz later became a raven safad and actually made his way to chicago the read by you open up any yerushalmi on the side of the page you have the parish haridbaaz by the way we'll hear momentarily what the redbaz had to say about reviser kurzhak rav herzog obtained academic degrees in law mathematics language philosophy science maybe the only thing you couldn't do is change your tire right but everything else he's a doctor a lawyer a scientist a chemist everything else listen to this his crowning academic achievement was his d lit his uh i guess his doctorate in literature from london university 1913. by then he's proficient in 12 languages can you imagine he spoke 12 languages including arabic aramaic cerak greek latin he was he was appointed the rabbi of belfast in ireland 1916 and in 1919 the rabbi of dublin 1921 he became the chief rabbi of ireland 1936 he becomes the chief rabbi of palestine which he held the post of chief rabbi of israel through 1948 until his his um passing in july 1959. you read this you think this man was an academic a scholar he learned and he also studied science mathematics if you really study the history of herzog this is really a misrepresentation of who rev herzeg was referred to first and foremost was a goyin oil to the point where he did not learn one word of secular knowledge he did not even speak any language until he had mastered while living in england he did not speak english from age 9 to 16 he did not leave his house literally he stayed in the home seven years by the time he was 16 years old he knew shaas bao pa with rashi a few years later he knew the entire you saw me about as well but before he's 20 years old he has already mastered kolateruku it's not that he studied torah and other disciplines he so did not involve in some of the other dismissals that he did not speak any language until first mastering kalaterkal he's the author of the shout outs 1948 you have many survivors of the holocaust they don't know what happened to their wives their husbands they don't know if they could remarry revitagazu levy was at the forefront of trying to find loopholes leniencies for agunos he has many chuvas too rabshloima david kahana who my grandfather has michael from i'm actually in possession of that smitha you have chuvas from frank they all put in great efforts to in the indian of being mater agunas before he became bar mitzvah he was ready sending on kochim so even though we're going to see he had degrees in law mathematics science philosophy language we would expect he must have spent years and years in university how many days did revisit isaac haley spend in university zero in fact he never stepped foot in university except to take the tests but he did not actually sit in the classroom like most ishiba right now but um actually did not spend time in any of the universities but nevertheless he was able to to uh rise to the highest levels of academia he was a mass mid awesome to the point where his mother was worried when are you going to sleep and he would say it says you have to learn during the day and the night i'll sleep when it's neither day or night so we're dealing with somebody tremendous caliber in knowledge of torah to the point where the rid baz said about rav herzog that he's the rebbi akiva egger of the dark okay so that's not a that's not something to dismiss easily so you're dealing with somebody of tremendous caliber but despite all of his knowledge of torah he certainly was as well versed as any human could be in secular now 1913 in london after mastering kala tarakula at the age of 25 rav isaac herzog published his dissertation which he called hebrew porphyrology now does anybody know what the word porphyrology means it's not a word you're going to see too often because there is no such word there is no such word porphyrology it does mean something though porphyrology means the study of purple the study of purple right some people like purple is very inaud right the study of purple so i'm trying to find where does this word come from it's not really in the dictionary right it's not in the dictionary so i finally discovered this word was coined by rabies like izakalevi if you investigate the etymology of the word perforalogy it was coined by proviso caleb while writing this book now review had no intention whatsoever of challenging the radzina rather that's the last thing on his mind here he's a tamim he's in on of he's a very humble individual he's very he's a kaddish vita the last thing he wants to do is challenge some reva's opinion of what but he was fascinated with ancient dying after all you have to know what argamon is our gama now i am going to give you a very very rare piece of paper you could keep it but take very good care of it don't lose it you're not getting this again okay this is a colored copy i hired my printer in brooklyn hillel goldstein goldstein press coney island avenue free advertisement right he i'm giving you all a colored copy of this very rare book to take it home you can enjoy it put it away because there are not too many copies of this book around with a beautiful picture of isaac khaled herzog and this is if you look at the book the publishers of the book understood you know with the with a book called the royal purple and the biblical blue so you have the biblical blue is in a beautiful blue and the royal purple is in a beautiful purple this book is a study of the ancient dying of argamon which is royal purple our government is used for the big day kahuna our government is used for the mishkan the vasa mikdash and khewest was also used for the big day kahuna they saw mikdash and and herzog was fascinated with the ancient processes of dying how to treat materials like wool in order for it to hold to the chemicals and to the dying agents and where are these where these colors come from where these dyes come from so he publishes this book hebrew porphyrology now as pointed out in an article in the journal of contemporary societies so today's share is going to be a little different than usual you know it's the summer where we're off right it's a little bit vacation so we're we're taking a little break to explore an indian in torah to give us a better appreciation of sir and gadolin and to give us a better appreciation of the halachic issues at hand so as we mentioned even though it was not repurtsag's desire to slug up rev the redzina reba nevertheless he did nevertheless he did and we will still give credit to the brazzino rebel because if not for him we would not be here four weeks in a row analyzing and studying the topic of khelas so the first thing you have to know rabbi sai is that there are many many gemaras and shots shasta talk about the criteria of what khalas is but the most important gemara the clearest gemara is the gemara menachem that gives us four criteria of how do you know when this look at number six tanurabana right so you know take hold on to these copies you have a nice picture of herzog you could put it one time i was walking down the street someone had in his dashboard the last time we gave that gave out a picture a picture of the balham he had in his dashboard so you know this is good people have all kinds of pictures you look at it you see somebody was a chuuka for torah for you have nothing better to do just look at the picture it will stand you well okay so kumar says i guess it's body is similar to the sea now what does that mean it's big like the sea it has waves like the sea it's salty like the sea or maybe it's blue like the sea unclear that's the first criteria number two ubria daimler dog its creation resembles a fish what does that mean how does it resemble a fish it has fins it has scales is it in the shape of a fish number three the oil ah the shiv shana it makes an appearance once every 70 years it only shows up once every seven years so now this is a it's almost impossible to try to pin down what this means number one it's it's similar to the sea in what way it looks like a fish in what way it comes up once in 70 years what creature is there that only appears once every 70 years none that we know about none that we know that what is this referring to a creature that only appears once every 70 years now there's a very important english term that i want you to know and that is how do you refer to something that appears once every 70 years says i've heard that it's called a septuagenarian appearance a septuagenarian appearance okay so remember that something that appears once every 70 years is a septuagint so if herzog spends a lot of time searching for what he considers a septuagenarian appearance okay and then finally the last criteria which almost it definitely definitely fulfills is uh unless with its therefore it's expensive so that you could be sure that whatever anybody thinks is trailers it's going to cost you a lot of money that's for sure the problem is what about the other criteria does it is it going to look like the sea is it going to be similar to a fish and does it show up once every 70 years okay so with these three criteria rev uh the rev herzug writes that the radzina rebba was searching first of all criteria c what's criteria c criteria c is a septuagenarian appearance does the cuttlefish only appear once every 70 years of course not every fisherman in in italy knows that you could sit there on the coast of italy every single day hour after hour and just reel in cuddle fish after cuttlefish every day of the year for 70 consecutive years so to to say that the cuttlefish meets the criteria of the gemara that it shows up 177 years is very far-fetched however says herzog in his opinion this gemara is not difficult at all because like many gumaras and shas if a gemara is in agatha tagamara it could be just derek guzma alma it's just an exaggeration rev herzog writes this gemara is probably hyperbole there are many gemaras right if you want to say you know this guy only shows up once in a year right some people they come to the shirt every week and some guys come once in a year either once only once every 50 years we're not even giving the sheer 50 years it means it's an expression they only show up once in a while so to once every 70 years 70 years marks the the lifetime of man once every seven years means very infrequently but it doesn't necessarily mean once ever in every 70 years but does the cuttlefish look like the sea well we'll have to see what a cuttlefish looks like does the cuttlefish look like a fish we have to see now why would you say that why did the radzina reba even have a javamino why did he even entertain the possibility that the gilazon was a cuttlefish you know what a cuttlefish is cuttlefish is not really a fish it's an octopus it's a squid in fact i'm gonna hand you another very rare piece of paper that you're gonna hold on to don't lose it because this is footage of actual cuttlefish okay hold on to it don't you're not going to get another one okay so make sure you put it somewhere safe because in you know in 70 years you're gonna have to pull it out again okay so pass this down and we have over here real live footage of an actual cuttlefish so you take a look on the top of your page also by goldstein press coney island avenue take a look at the top of your page you have an actual cuddle fish in its natural habitat okay as you can see the cuttlefish has four arms coming out of its eyes and two arms on its side you do not want to meet this guy head on he's a friendly guy nice guy as soon as as long as he's on the paper once you meet him face to face you got to get out of there very quickly okay so is this a fish you tell me is this a fish it depends what your definition of fish is but it's a squid it's an octopus does not look like much of a fish right isaac is this a fish is it blue does it look like the sea it ain't blue it's orange it's brown this is not doi meliam it's not doi miliam is breast doing a dog does it look like a fish maybe you know you could you could possibly construe that it looks like a fish it definitely does not look like the sea so what is the rodzino rep of thinking imagine how many species of fish are there tens of thousands hundreds of millions of species so here the gemara says it's doing and there are zeno rebbe says hmm what's the tobacco a cuddle fish i mean that would be on my list of possibilities he this guy would be dead last this is this is a cut this is based on what well look not every fish could produce dye the cuddle fish in english it's called the um in hebrew it's called dog hadiya the dye fish because it does have a special gland that produces that but there are many fish that have glands from which you can make die based on what there are xena reba think that this guy here on top of your page is the answer is there is one line in the rambam that fits in like a glove with this cuttlefish and that is the rambam says look on number eight on the fourth line you take the blood of the son its blood is black like ink guess what color the the blood of the cuttlefish is right slice them open right now slice it open you'll see it's black ink it's black blood like the rabbum says they're very almost no fish or no squid that have black blood the cuttlefish has black blood exactly how the ram mom says and based on that the radzina rebel was convinced this is the man he's the guy the cuddle fish the kilozone so says rev herzog in his royal purple biblical blue look at number nine describes how in 1887 the rodzina rebber wrote his first work called spoone tune about claiming that the cuttlefish which is called sepia aficionalis is the actual fish that you produce trayless with 1888 he writes and says herzog in the second paragraph i for beer examining this thesis in detail in other words i'm not even going to try to analyze the idea of the radhina rabbah suffice it to say that liner is referring to rosina reba started with the wrong assumption so he believes that the radina reba was mistaken from the beginning and we'll see he proves it conclusively to the point where almost nobody wears radzina travis except for radzina khasid the first thing he did was his first question is like this you see the guy this guy over here does he look blue to you is he doing the liam the radina rabbit said he is daimlyam because sometimes he's swimming on the bottom of the seabed and he's you know there's seaweed all over him and there's all kinds of fouling agents from sea creatures on top of that maybe at certain times he looks blue so says herzog don't take my word for it i sent a letter to dr germain and dr jermaine wright wrote to me the following on the bottom paragraph number two and so forth a whole dissertation in french which basically says wrong fish okay now why does this book not translate the french the answer is this book is written in 12 languages and it expects you to be familiar with all 12 languages so i'm assuming you know french and i'm assuming that you understand that this last paragraph is saying that this fish ain't blue it's not blue however the uh concedes that there is one advantage of maintaining that this is the the that is the black blood of the hilasa okay then at the end the very end of rev herzeg's book revertsag gives us a lengthy historical account of the radzina rebels expeditions and ultimately let's take a look at what his conclusion is it's very interesting take a look look at number 10. it was not until 1887 some 20 years after that a regenerator of trayless arose in israel and the person of rabbi garish on enoch liner of radzin russian poland he writes a few sentences over there that it's not necessary for me to read because i think it will be misinterpreted but take a look at it you have to understand that this type this is a certain archaic english where you're going to read and get one impression he doesn't mean to criticize the rebbe but uh it's a certain way of speaking okay but we're going to leave that out for now he says his um again these are the words of a god of israel of herzog was certainly like we said the red says he was rebequie like the rebecca vega of the dar so these are words we have to take seriously he says like this that the rosina rebel was the son of a neo hasidic wonder rabbi he nevertheless managed to acquire a knowledge of several european languages and a familiarity with mechanics and medicine his love for novelty showed itself first when as a young man of 23 he began the publication of work designed to furnish with the gemara the sixth order of the mission and we mentioned that radzina reva actually wrote a gemara on cedar taros now listen to this in later life when already holding in succession to his father the leadership of a hasidic sect so ready he's the rebbe what's he doing as a rebba he constructs the largest mill in all of europe a mill that could produce the most grain of any greenery mill in all of europe who constructed it who conceived it radzina reba so he was a novel inventor tremendous architect an engineer he writes he caused the construction of a mill furnished with machinery of his own invention this is what reversed the rights throughout zina reba was the single greatest inventor of mills in europe which was capable of turning out 80 000 pounds of flour daily something like you know they have in the midwest the radzina reba invented it in poland this was an astounding figure for polish manufacturer in those days by the way with her success the the enterprise was an abysmal failure putting the radhina reba and many hasidim into financial ruin what he was a good inventor he was a great engineer apparently the business aspect in that was not successful okay 1887 radhina reba suggests to the world that the gilazon was the sepia officials and we read in previous weeks how the rebbe said he got a hold of it but he never caught it live should god give him the privilege to actually get his hands on a living cuttlefish he will commission chemists to try to produce the blue dye okay meanwhile the rev herzog writes many interesting things about this radzina rabba he says the followers of the radzin rabbi held the discovery with boundless enthusiasm tales quickly games circulation of colossal operations in other words whenever a god will be swell accomplishes something many tales begin to abound we're not going to comment either do they actually happen or not but that's what happened it was also whispered that the pope was so impressed with the razeena rebel that the pope spoke highly of the rebbe to the tsar okay however says of herzog the hasidim didn't go for it the other hasidic sex did not accept razi nachelas based on the ariza like we mentioned that arizona says we can't have trellis so long as they migrate is not standing he writes them a snag them rejected for scientific reasons you know what they are and they are the following if you take out the ink of the cuttlefish and you try to dye material the fastness it does not stick well the durability of the color is very poor and the gemara says one of the criteria of trellis is the fastness of the color is the durability of the color the the uh this idea was brought to the two greatest for abundant russia rugby took on spectre and it says here the radiant rebel left no stone unturned they wanted the greatest talmudis of the of the era to get involved who was that review stayed out of it says of herzog never would i have had a havamina never would i even entertain the possibility to send radzino trelas to a chemist to see if it actually came from the cuddle fish or not because why should i suspect the rebbe of khashoch not using the dye of this fish and maybe using something else so it never occurred to him however says raphael a cern professor professor friedlander sent me a letter requesting that i send him a copy of radzino trailers and it so happened that the son of the razina river murky yosef liner who succeeded his father he was out of town his shamish a man by the name of joshua mayor kettelgesser was writing in the name of the rabbi sent me rav herzog an actual sample of rodzino trellis i forwarded it to professor friedlander and this is what he sent back to me sarah garch langer and cronkite yeah what language is that german and i'm sure you know what that means that means this is a scam radzine or trailers does not come from the cuttlefish it's prussian blue it's synthetic it's not it's not a natural source this is a scam says of herzog i read the letter i rub my eyes on reading the proceeding lines i sent razino trailers to the to the chemist in france and you know what they wrote to me monsieur examines a whole french torah what does that mean it's a scam it does not come from the cuttlefish couldn't believe it says of herzog i sent it to the to the laboratory in london and what did they send back dear sir we have tested the sample of wool furnished and find that it has dyed with prussian blue synthetic color so here i've heard zach he doesn't know what to do he had no have amino of questioning reba but he sent the sample first to germany they sent back it's not not this is not coming from a natural source it doesn't come from a cuttlefish they sent it to friends doesn't come from a cuddle fish sent it to england says of herzog the radzin thus stands self-condemned or the results of chemistry are to be questioned either you need to dismiss radino trailers or you need to dismiss the discipline of chemistry it's one or the other either there's no such thing as chemistry or there's no such thing as readiness would i ever say a bad word about the radhina rabbah i would never say radzina rabbah is trying to pull a fast one on the kasim what did he do so now you have to know the story when radzina rebbe got a hold of the cuttlefish he opened it up it was black dye how is he going to get blue from black now there is blue color in black you have to extract it he didn't know how to do it so he put up a sign in the fisherman community in italy saying whoever could extract the blue color from this black i will reward them very handsomely says of herzog probably what happened was someone attracted by the rosina rebels offers of high remuneration some clever but swindling specialist in tectorial chemistry contrived to concoct prussia and die with sepia secretion in other words you know what happened the guy knew how to get blue out of anything the guy could take your shirt and make a crayless out of it this italian chemist the guy could take your sneakers the guy could take your yarmulke and produce trailers he has a whole you know concoction of chemicals because the chemicals are blue chemicals how come from the manuscript this guy had eight chemicals ten chemicals they could produce blue only with one ingredient it needs carbon it needs one natural piece of material so they used he used the kilozone so they tried the experiment they took out the fellas and they put in a piece of roast beef kelas mahajan so it turned out that according to raf herzog at least the radzina rebel was fooled by an italian chemist who looking for the cash looking to cash in on the offer contrived the whole system he put in a little cuttlefish mixed it with you know some kishka some chillant and he got i'm just joking he mixed it with his chemicals and he got kaylas but really says of herzog his conclusion is razendrela stands self-condemned or the results of chemistry are to be questioned i'm not offering my opinion i'm just a reporter i'm telling you what herzog writes it seems that most of kalyasara followed the same line of thinking because almost nobody wears razzina whether it was the reason of the basale or rabbishua mikotna or rabitsuka spector or raf herzog it seems very questionable that this was real-time now what would the rodzina rebel say we'll never know radzina rabba passed away 30 years before this experiment was done 30 years before these chemicals were sent to laboratories in germany france and england we don't know what radzina rebbe would say his haseedham continued to this day to adhere loyalty to their messiah of razendrelas perhaps they have an explanation that much i do not know but as far as rev herzog is concerned this cuttlefish's only purpose is to arouse your curiosity sitting here on the top of the paper you're not making trailers from the guy who you see on your paper however this really elicited the curiosity of herzog because if it's not the cuddle fish then what is it what is it because the truth is that even in the last 40 years no new species have been found along the mediterranean which is very rare because they're finding species of fish all the time but the mediterranean according to many rabbanim and many scholars has uh we we've exhausted our research on the mediterranean even bacteria very rarely we find anything new in the mediterranean unless there's a storm and it gets carried from other water sources if that's the case it's got to be somewhere there and therefore of herzog set out to try to find out what exactly is the zone of shas and the first thing reversal says we have to do is we have to clarify what are the criteria what are the ingredients what makes a good kilos and we know what they are already number one it has to be daimlyam it has to look blue number two it has to be um brioche doing the dog it has to look like a fish and number three it has to appear once every 70 years what is that called the septuagenarian appearance okay says of herzog meat murex trunculus meet murex trunculus which you have on the bottom left-hand side of your paper right for all your viewers out there meet murex trunculus now muric's trunculus does it look like a fish well you know if you hold it like this and you get a fish with a narrow mouth and a narrow tail yeah maybe you could fetch a you know a fish you give it a little a little you know a little patch on that side a little patch over there you could you could squeeze but it's isis to say that this murder now what is the new york's trunculus it's a snail this is a shell inside you have a little blob that doesn't look like anything it's a snail does it look like a fish yeah in the in the modern books the books that push the muric's trunculus they try to you know they have these pictures of the fish and the mirror chunkers and they you know they create this they found one fish you know and the lighting on the of the photograph is in such a way where you know they make it look like the same shape but it's this is does this look like a tuna fish to you you know this is like a herring this ain't no fish but you know okay the other criteria number three does it appear once every 70 years no you could go today to the seashores and eretz israel you could scrape these guys off the floor of the ocean not really that rare you could get it anywhere you could get anywhere in the mediterranean and it's not anywhere i won't say anywhere specifically in uh near haifa where the gemara does say the trellis is normally found but if you're there it's not that rare to find the murax trunculus however what is characteristic b characteristic b is excuse me the first kind does it look like is it blue is this guy blue it's not blue either so on these grounds rav herzog was the first to suggest maybe he is the philosopher but number one it's not blue number two it doesn't look like a fish number three it doesn't appear every 70 years and his strongest question was it doesn't work if you take the gland of this snail out and you try to make a color out of it and you wash it it runs right off it's not it does not hold to the material and for this reason ref herzog immediately rejects the possibility of murex trunculus however scissor of herzog his best guess is he says like this if for all the present all hope is to be abandoned of rediscovering the trailer species among the members of general murex and purpura it might not be a miss to look for the same within the confines of the genus jan fina so uh rev herzog says his best guess his best suggestion is this guy over here on the bottom right hand side of your sheet if he was a betting man this is the best possibility that this is the khilazone why first of all it's purple it's a bluish purple it looks like the sea it's voilam that's airstones it's doing liam in the water it looks like a fish how does it look like a fish it doesn't swim by the way they float on the water and how do they flow in the water they produce air bubbles and on the air bubble they float on the one so maybe you could construe they move like a fish and they appear once every 70 years why because they have a very strange phenomenon and that is certain times they abound in great numbers by the millions one day you could wake up go to the seacoast in israel there'll be millions of gentina shells on the store and at other times you could barely find them and they seem extinct and definitely endangered so this criteria of the gemara says rav herzog perhaps then what the real kilozone is is the janthina snail it's purple like the sea it swims like a fish and it appears very infrequently okay so let's take a look to summarize to summarize herzog's discovery we have a number 12 sort of a summary of it and that is repursage suggested that the hazard was the murex trunculus but he had four questions on it and bear this in mind because i want you to know the trailers that people are wearing today are not the cuddle fish unless you're radzina khasir i got a letter from one in ushalayim yesterday who he wrote to me that he doubt he continues to wear radzino trailers good kala kavod but most people are not wearing i don't know anybody other than razina casino are wearing that so the cuddle fish fine the janthina i don't think anybody wears what people are wearing today is murex trunculus and i saw a stat today the those who pushed the muric strungulus right that at the present time today over two hundred thousand from jews are wearing treyless muraks chunkiness now is that true i don't know anyone here wearing it i'm like you know you don't have to tell me but i i don't it's hard to believe what yeah they they push they don't push the cuttlefish they don't push the gentina they believe in the muric's trunkless house so what we have to deal with was ref herzog dismissed it because of four reasons he didn't even entertain the possibility number one is it doesn't produce blue color the murex trunculus produce purple that's a major problem because presumably treyless is blue now now not everybody believes queles is blue some scholars still maintain today treyless is purple and they wear purple trailers if you want to look in this book you could the murex trunculus produces purple color that's the the natural color of the mirror structure is perfect how do you know purple is purple no maybe purple is by the way is probably not purple our gum is very very shiny some say it's red our gum is red and some say till today that uh crailes is purple but the radino rabbit held it was blue and therefore he dismissed the possibility that the muric's trunculus was the kilaza his second question is it doesn't work the dye does not hold to the material the third question is the body of the murex trunculus is it blue it's not blue it looks like sand and its fourth question was it does not appear once every 70 years now let's deal with the following issue why would you say it's a snail doesn't the ramen say it's a fish a fish is not a snail what's the advantage of saying it's a snail why even think it's a snail where does that come from here there's so many types of fish why would you say it's a snail well the gemara is a very strong indication that it is a snail because the gemara massachusetts will be getting there very soon says that zavulan came to to cut to the vanish he had a complaint seriously you gave my brothers fields orchards vineyards and i'm on the water i have nothing i have no land riban says you're gonna have something that everybody needs uh the treasures buried in the sand says the gemara sacramento what treasures are buried in the sand buried in the sand there are no fish that are buried in the sand fish can't live in the sand there is one specie that is buried in the sand and that are snails snails live under the sand they breathe through the passages in the sand but when it rains and the water clogs up the passages the snails burrow up so this gemara is a pretty clear indication we're not dealing with a regular fish we're dealing with a snail and based on that the rep herzog believe that either it's the murex trunculus but he had four questions or it's the janthina now i'm going to tell you a very interesting argument that repertoire gives i can just say what it is i'm not going to comment on it it's something very interesting very challenging alumnus shikasha and think about it and now the question is just because these possibilities do fit into the gemara that's still not positive identification that it's zone maybe the zone is some specie that we just didn't find yet i mean just because they meet the criteria of the gemara it's not wearing a name tag on the zone that's not a positive identification that it's a khalazon says of herzag you don't need positive identification something is akhilazon anything that meets the criteria of the gemara is on why because if it wasn't says watch out better use trellis and don't use the imposter kala ilan kalilan is indigo it's a kind of replica of herzog if there's something called the gentina snail that produces the same color of trellis if it's not trailers then why wouldn't the gemara warn us about the genthino the same way it warns us about the kala the fact that the gemara only warns us about kalila means anything that could get you this color that lives in the water and meets the criteria the gemara is on and it could be many things it doesn't have to be positively identified as kilozone as long as the fact that the gemara only warns against kalaila means that's the only thing you have to watch out for but anything else that gets you this result is good interesting idea interesting okay how about what do what do scholars have to say about the trellis rehearsal the gentina you know anyone who wears giants nobody is why doesn't anybody use rev herzog's gentino trailers so in the back of herzog's dissertation on the back of his doctorate there are a number of articles one of them is called a review of the family and uh they analyze rev herzeg's proposal that the gentina is the hilar zone and they've completely dismissed it number one does it have the color of the sea maybe yeah it is purple it is violet it can be construed to look like the sea does it look like a fish this doesn't look like a fish what kind of fish does it which fish does this look like it doesn't swim like a fish it produces a gas bubble it floats on the top of the water it does not really be a resemblance to any known fish does it come up every 70 years but the biggest question is it doesn't work you cannot dye any material with the gentino scent it just doesn't work and that's why nobody uses it so rev herzog suggested well maybe the reason it doesn't work is because we no longer have the chemicals they had and the times of the gemara that could prepare material to absorb color but still because that's very unlikely therefore herzog's uh position and his suggestion was not really taken that seriously so up to about 20 years ago cuttlefish sorry jan cena no way and the murex that was of herzog's own suggestion which he dismissed for four reasons doesn't look like a fish it doesn't produce blue color and it doesn't look like the sea until an experiment was made that they took this murex trunculus and normally when you produce dye with the murix trunculus it produces purple but when you produce it under direct sunlight they discovered it produces blue hairless exactly in fact they even measured the light spectrum of the blue that's produced by making the murix trunks on direct sunlight and it had exactly 613 measures of color the only object known to man that produced this number of on the spectrometer impressive right doesn't mean anything it's not but but it's it's it it shakes you up a little bit right wait maybe there's something here maybe there's something so the kasha rehearsal dismissed it because it produces purple yeah it produces purple that's when you make it in the factory but under direct sunlight there is no question it produces blue dye whoa maybe we have something over here rev herzog was the one who suggested he's an adam goddard he dismissed it for a certain reason that reason is not a reason what about the fact that rehearsal says it doesn't work the chemist who showed him how to treat the garment the chemist was ill-informed because in fact if you use the dye of the muric's trunculus it holds so fast to the wool that you could soak it in bleach for three days and almost nothing will happen it is perhaps the strongest die known so reverse the only problem was the color doesn't last oh better you better last last more than anything you know you put your shirt in bleach for three days three minutes you can't wear it again you put the tailless and bleach for three days nothing will happen so what happened was take a look um he writes look at number 18. the first two objections have with new knowledge been adequately answered as noted earlier the trunculus dye is indeed purple but if the dye is subjected to sunlight it will turn blue in the dyeing process so the biggest cache was it's purple answer is the cavim timer it's purple the schleimer no it's blue right that's a pretty simple answer it's not purple it's blue the second question was that what it doesn't last the answer is what you ask the guy doesn't last oh the is not true it does last okay the third question it doesn't look blue it's not blue the answer is when you take it out and you clean it with with soap and right and you wash it and you scrub it it's not blue but in the ocean with seaweed on it and all the fouling agents and the algae you can't you can't even see it in the ocean it looks blue in the ocean not by the way not every muric's trunculus looks blue but there are some that look blue i believe there's another answer entirely i heard this also this is documented when the gomorrah says daimlyam the kumar doesn't mean it's blue like the sea do you know what the word yam means in hebrew not in ben yehuda's dictionary in los angeles what does the word ya mean we also see no it doesn't it doesn't mean the c in fact there's a puzzle number 19. comes [Applause] the earth will be full of the knowledge of hashem like water covers the sea what is that supposed to mean water doesn't cover the sea water is the sea it's not like you have a sea and water covers it water is the sea that's the question of some kawasaki man in his safer simcha what is this what does the pasta mean in kamayam no it doesn't say that it doesn't say yam like water that covers the sea doesn't cover the sea what prophecy is allegory right but you got to get the allegory it's not your allegory it's the shai's allegory your shy's allegory is like water that covers the sea water doesn't cover the sea water is the sea should say he says like this another question is what's the allegory what's the allegory that the world will be full of knowledge like the water covers the sea why just say there'll be a lot of knowledge why the world will be full of knowledge like what are they covered in hebrew and last night the word yam does not mean the sea doesn't mean water the word yam means the sea bed the floor of the sea the floor of the sea we'll see we'll see how he knows it means that if you look at the floor of the sea the floor of the sea is it flat no there are actually mountains on the seafloor taller than mount everest there are valleys deeper than the deepest part of the world but when you look at the top of the sea it all looks the same you have no idea what's going on underneath you don't have no idea if there are mountains underneath you have no idea if there are valleys underneath there's no you have no idea the water covers it smoothly in this world this world is a world of darkness it's a world of confusion there are a lot of peaks there are a lot of valleys there are a lot of stumbling blocks there are a lot of things that interfere with our daily life but when meshiach comes there will be such clarity that all the mountains and all the valleys will be smoothed over the way water covers the sea floor not the sea the sea floor kamayam like water sim that covers the sea floor the word yam does not mean water no such thing yam means the sea bed says yakov kaminetsky in the end of the archive three proofs from tanakh that the word yam does not mean see number one soma milk in the first place that make dash he built the yam anybody know what he built he built a big receptacle to hold water what do you mean why is it called the yam the water should be the yam no ya means a receptacle that holds water yam doesn't mean water water is mayam yam is what you put mayam into yam is the sea bed the sea floor that's one proof another proof says is the pasta in yeshaya um and he brings another proof on the gurari in parishes beratious the word yam does not mean the sea so when the gemara says in all probability it doesn't mean it's blue like the sea it probably means it looks like the seabed it's sand it looks like sand like the sea and if you look at the murex trunculus what does it look like looks exactly like the seabed it's indistinguishable in fact when you go down there to get it it's camouflaged in the seabed so what rev herzog dismissed muric's trunculus number one it's purple it's not purple number two it doesn't last it does last number three doesn't look like the c oh yes it does because c is not the water c is the seabed and therefore there's a very big movement today to bring back the trailers of murak's trunculus and i was surprised doing research how many tamiya khamim are actually wearing it from not from all from the full spectrum of judaism based on the fact that look it meets the criteria of the gemara ref herzog who is a brilliant scholar rejected for certain reasons and those reasons don't apply anymore so what should we do la maisa for that you have to stay tuned for our grand finale hashem next week wednesday night but it is precious pinchas what does this have to do with tasha's finch so let me tell you on shabbos kodesh [Applause] but you have to pass away at that precise moment isaac khaled herzog returned his nashamah to his creator and whether we accept this or not we owe him a great debt of hakartha number one for explaining why the radzina trailers has not been accepted by by most playskim and for really delving into this issue to make it a major study for us for offering us the possibility of murex chunkulus and whether we're going to it or not the purpose of trellis is to do what to remember all the mysteries of hashem it's a sugya that if you learn it in depth you'll end up learning all 613 mid-slice so for that we owe a debt of accounts of to review herzog tahini so it's surah with sora sashem we'll finish it up next week wednesday night 8 30. hashem habal limousine you've just experienced another torah class brought to you by torahanytime.com