Parshas Beha'aloscha: The Laws of Moving a Sefer Torah

this Torah class is brought to you by Torah anytime.com okay good morning to the here in Hills New York so we have the the uh twoim very short which are inclosed by the upside down NS the para of the movement of a safer Tyra so um that's gives us a good excuse to talk about the topic of moving a saer Tyra are you allowed to move a saer Tyra somehow in uh our day and age we view sear like a sack of potatoes like a folding chair it's movable it's transportable it's uh you know Saar on the go everything is on the Go including not a so that's the question are you allow to move a to another location to another to another room to the base ofu is this permitted are there certain guidelines restrictions does it have to be read from a minimum number of times so the idea over here is based on a mish the the Mish tells us that the would come to read if he wanted to wear his linen garments good his own white garment now how did we get the to the so the says takes it he gives it to the president scan the scan gives it to the executive director executive director hands it off and until finally no stands fine so this is the mishna in the does not comment however comes Yi and thei asks the following question let's just take note of what's happening over here we're taking the to the that's not right we always say go after the follow the the says and now we bring the tah to them no you don't bring the tah to you take the tah you follow the tah you always follow the Tyra in uh in so you're not going to bring a sa to someone you have to bring the people to the sa what are you handing it off from the to the say to thean to no let the go to where the Torah is says thear saysi since we in other words they were they were great people not just in position but Torah knowledge then the Torah is elevated by going to themi to a regular person to a t typical person you may not move a is not transportable but because these people are or at least they were supposed to be and therefore it was permitted to bring the Torah to them ah but the over there they would bring the Tyra to the rusa and the rusa was not an ad it was a political position say how could you say the only to is to an because but is not an since the the ancestry of David was mixed in there I believe the difference between the Nasi and the ruso is the Nasi came from David but they had the ancestry the DNA the divic DNA so they continued to practice the custom of their forefathers so in other words even though the were not technically but they descended from the and therefore they kept up the practice but the bottom line here is that what we learned from the usami is that is not transportable it's not movable cannot be moved the only het to move it is to a because in that case it's not a for it's a in fact thei says um the they're great people and they're therefore the could be okay the bottom line is a cannot be moved based on thisi the Maham one of the great Pim of the 19th century shom the ancestor of Shalom the mid he answers a very basic question according to our calendar PM does not come out on chabas however if it would come out on chabas you would not be allowed to lay in the M on chabas why the same way you don't take chabas and you don't take chabas so too you would not be able to lay the M chabas why because we're afraid that you might get a hold of a and you might have some letters that are touching and you might have to look for on it a very simple question how then are we allowed to Lane on chabus same problem why are we not worried that you'll have two letters that are touching or two let's say the K the leg will be touching the main body of the letter and you have a shiler you have to bring it to a why don't we have the same can you imagine how many more people would come to sh if we didn't have you know people actually I don't know you wouldn't have and then the rabbi would never even speak if you don't even land there be no dra mean doing would be 45 minutes it would be packed so the wants to know how are you allowed to how are you allowed to lay on shab why don't we have the same of says what kind of K is that it's a a is not movable it's not transferable it's not you can't move it from one place to another say forra goes from the AR to the Bea that's it cannot be brought anywhere else there's no who would have the audacity to move a sa you're not allowed to move a a t has two locations the AR and the be nowhere else nobody's bringing it through the streets you cannot move a safer T it's AER to move a t you can't bring the is not moved so we're not worried people before they would now you say well you're allowed to move it to the CER yeah but the point here is that people are so hesitant to move a t that they always think twice three times four times before the is ever moved will never come to carry on shabas So based on this that is not movable the mar answers the of the there's no because he says like this he the look at number says why do we l says number five on the third line so it would come out then that according to thisi if somebody was not well or someone was in jail or someone was in would you be allowed to bring a saferra to the house absolutely not no he whatsoever according to Yami it would seem it would be absolutely a so what do theim say about this the mor m one of the great Rim he was born in 1240 he was uh murdered ales hasem in the year 129 at him and his entire family one of the great the says I found in a cha now the mor doesn't say where he found it but in the B it's brought that he found it in the CH of his re theber that you have people in jail now in jail they have all kinds of good stuff they even have DFI so now is could they have you can't bring them what mean they want to write a they have a life sentence so yeah yeah they could do that you know um but to bring the safer Tyra to them you're not allowed to why why like it says so basically the quotesi word for word and he says since thei advances the principle that a may not be moved if someone is in jail even on the high holidays and they want to hear sorry we cannot bring the same now the only het there would be if he's a now why the is in jail unfortunately it happens but he's he's a mager yeah so but for whatever the case is whatever the situation is the morai says you cannot bring the sa to the guy in jail I he needs to hear what could we do we cannot by moving it now if he would be would be but a regular person the by the way what does say qu word for word and therefore according to as well it would beer to move a to someone in jail or someone who's sick or someone who's in you cannot bring them the sa yeah exactly good point was now thei right why how he got there right Mami renberg himself was incarcerated in uh yeah what about it it's a good thing to do AR you want to give one AR Tak what in the street well you got to get it from the house of the cyer to the in the street again you're not to move a saara to you but we got to get it from the house of the cyer to the sh you want to know could you take a circuitous rout to to make a big shebang out of it we'll we'll talk about that we'll see so it's interesting some of the tours adverti that they have a sa T traveling with I hear so that that would certainly be a problem well we we'll talk about that as well oh me why are we bringing a sa T to an individual does an individual have an obligation to hear so one thing you see from here is even if on the an individual has responsibility to be part of thator and if he's not he's losing out on something in fact in fact well you so then do what you can to make sure uh that that you could be part of aore yeah you should listen to uh that no there may it's a complex subject is chatar on an individual or is it MIT on theor in other words let's say a it's some type of hybrid Mitzvah where the obligation rests on theore but I have an obligation to be to be part of and we'll get to that as well okay so right now it would come out that the only hetter ever to make to move a whether it's whether it's someone who would only be to otherwise it would come out based on the and that it is says the notes on the rush the first let's say you have a sick person and he has the wherewithal to be uh to DAV then 10 people should go to his house to Davin with him he person you could bring him a from now who is theing the that implies that only in who's a could you bring a sa but if this would not be in you could not bring him a sa now what if he's an and would not be a we don't know exactly but all we could infer from this is that a who's also an you could bring him a so right now there is absolutely no heter ever to move a sa to a regular person come the dark who's the dark theama the's commentary on the tour and theama quotes that from the that you bring 10 people to him and if he's an then you could even bring him a however says but if you actually look up the even if he's not sick in other words in order to bring someone to sa you need two ingredients you need and but if you actually look up the the implication is only even who's not a sick person you could bring him a safer likewise a sick person who's not an sh wow so the ra is saying that while the the way he quotes the implies you need both ingredients if you actually look it up it seems even one ingredient would be good even the M himself who says you're not how to move a he himself implies you could move a too but by the way the is not alone you could move a saer so say right now if I were to ask you could you move a safer to someone who is ill and cannot get out of bed what would you say good excellent the would say n o and the the's understanding of the is yes so what do you do everybody agrees you could move a saer t that's what it seems like times you say three times any as many times as he needs no but isn't there a mck let's say Bas OV that they try to lay we'll see so far we have no we don't see any basis for any any particular uh reason to three times right we we haven't found any source for that and as we're going to see we're not going to find any source for that and we'll see uh well we'll see we'll have to see about that okay so right now right right you have to treat it with respect you have to again maybe to or I mean are going to travel you know you have to get it from the cyer house back to the sh or if there's a mistake you have to get it from the sh there many is that you can move a sa for T when you do so you have to do it with respect doesn't mean you have it's a folding chair that you could just be you know have a every time someone goes on a vacation you can lend them your okay so one added factor that we have over here is the dark quotes the Chas of maharam padva who's the mam padva is R mayor Kat they're probably [Music] most put it this way more people trace themelves back to a marats and Ellen bog and then any other person alive 500 years ago I have a book at home called something like the golden chain two volumes each one about 600 pages of nearly everyone today traces thems back to Rome katell and Bogan um now who's Rome katell ban from the sound of his name is he ashkanazi Ori Ashi you can't get it Kat you can't but he lived in Italy I'm not sure not sure so what's the Nice Ash now where did where was he born Poland so what's a nice po doing in Italy got a job there that's all now I think his father-in-law was Ruda Min RAB Huda Min was a contemporary of the abarbanel and r katel boen took over the rabanos in Italy and that's why you know you have three different types of Minh you have and then you well where did that come from when you have a then you have but uh I was this past summer I was by his K in pada anyway the says like this this that to move that's only if you bring it solely for because then it looks like you're moving a for you but if you prepare a day or two an AR that's okay why because now it doesn't give the appearance that the Torah is moving for you it moved a day or two before and it rested there so it already it was like it had has its designated place and then when you need it you go to it it doesn't look like it's servicing you cuz you've already established a place for it so you ask which one is it one day or two days yes that's either a day or two days so we have a a dilemma over here we have first of all are you allowed to move for or someone in jail the says no the Z seems to say yes had do we pass number two the says AA that you could designate a place for the sa a day or two before okay that's the opinion of the do we him that way so where do we have to look so this whole in consists of one so someone in jail we do not bring them not on who is like the or the the that if someone is ill or someone is in jail you can never bring them the sa either says you can he's a good man and we don't pass him that way the we don't the is rejecting the approach of the or at least the way the for someone in a compromised situation who is that like that's like the mar so regarding the issue of could you move sa for someone in gy the answer is no regarding the issue of does it help to designate a place a day or two before yes you're allow to move with fine so it seem to be open and closed so let's say you have a guy in jail and it's could you move the for him according to no what about if you have 10 guys in jail could you move the saara no according to Not Right comes and says not so fast some comes and says look if you learn the you would know that the is not the only here there is a that you're allowed to move or now look at number 11 starts off in the he quotes the source of the isi just becausei says that you always follow a sa and you never bring the saer to service a person you can ask a very basic question on that extrapolation and that is maybe the USI that says you can't move a SAA is talking about to people who are able to go to the sa so if you're able to go to the sa the will not service them but how do you know that if somebody's incarcerated or someone's ill and they're in O that the per the people have to be stuck without maybe the derivation from thei is only in a situation where you're able to go to the be able to go to the how could the service you but on the Fifth Line number 11 you could go to it why in the world should be to bring is it disparaging to a if people want to learn it now that to me that is an awesome question you know why because I would say good question but the also knew how to learn and the also know how to learn and the concluded you're not allowed to so here the is showing tremendous boldness basically to ask a Kasha on onim and come out with a different conclusion than but now let's look where the takes us right correct no right no um okay it's a good but if it would have been different then the would have made that point you know why he didn't say even even on it could be he just talking about the psychology of people you know people feel more desperate or they want to be M but it would have been a bigger if he would have said even but then the sort of defends his question that he found this question in the says and I'm not revolutionizing here because the opinion of the is that you do move a or someone in jail like the quotes and theara says a logic why we bring it why because if you bring a safer t to to honor them certainly someone who's in hos you should bring them a sa and says then mile if someone is sick or mile if someone is in jail ah and therefore the has a very interesting conclusion says I would never based on a question come out with a different conclusion than the just because just because I have a question on the how does know that you're not allowed to bring a to people in jail but they're an I would never conclude differently than and therefore bottom line is if someone is in jail or someone is sick we don't have the to argue on the and to say you could bring them the but says in the following scenario even the who says you can't bring someone who's sick or someone who's in jail he's talking about people in jail and they want to gather in other words you have one guy in jail so he wants to bring a sa and another n that the M says it's user not likea why because we tell the guy hey pal why are you bringing the sa forra cuz you want to Lane who told you to Lane you don't have an obligation to Lane you're only a yak said oh you want to put upon yourself an obligation by bringing nine other people and bring no we we're not going to service you like that so you could say according to letter of when he can't go look carefully at the words of when a person can't go it's not on him the mitah of but if you could go to then it is on you the Mitzvah of but says if you have 10 people in jail or you have 10 people in the hospital it's I would say says even the and would agree you would then be allowed to bring them the the and the are talking about so I don't have the because of my on the to argue on the mor and the the but if you have 10 people in jail you have 10 people in the hospital then and even in fact the I found in one of his he also agrees that according to the Mori we're not talking about when 10 people are in jail now there's no question RAB does know for sure that the mor would agree that even when they're 10 people you're allowed to move the sa no it's certainly also based on the fact that there is a a legitimate position of the arara that you are allowed to move AAR even to an individual now we're not going to rely on theara straight up to move a to an individual but in combination with the fact that you have 10 people and you could possibly make the case that even the mor would agree when they're 10 people you could move the sa the's conclusion is you may move a to 10 people in jail or 10 people who are ill but then the says even further says that the M says you can't move saer to someone in jail says some argue because they who argues Thea oh you could then definitely be the and bring the guy the amazing so it's not across the board that you can never move a saara to a or a some so I didn't realize this let's say you have someone who's homebound and he wants to hear so now what well no no we don't bring the no we would be obligated to move the get nine PE nine other people to join him in his room and you're going to Lan for him it's amazing thing I don't I don't think I ever saw that done that's what the mkin what about he says it could be since there are opinions that Isa you can move a sa even for par par okay com what no no you can't move it to learn from you could learn from it in but you can't move it to learn a very interesting if you bring the first in other words this problem of moving a is only if you move it right before laning however if you bring it before and you leave it in the to it three times L three times so is adding for a change and is saying even if you bring the sa a day or two in advance you must L it the it three times so then it comes out if you're bringing to a basee of and they're only laning it Monday and Thursday and they're not using it by I don't know what do I think in most places they don't lean it in the Babas but I'm not sure do they right or you know if somebody somebody pass away fortive according to you can't bring the okay good that's also an issue we're going to talk about that are you allowed to move it on but says that it is not correct what in many places they do on that before Thea they take a sa T and they read it elsewhere why why do they read it elsewhere because it's a big inion to get so what do they do they take the out and they read it in another house that's for sure a problem in another room might also be a problem but says this custom it's not correct to take this from the B and read it elsewhere whatever benefit they get goes down the tubes they're violating us get your rot and tomatoes out and and anybody who wants to have a good life says should listen to me so according to now he's adding two things first of all he says that it's not enough to um take it out a day or two before you have to it three times which we're going to see the Mish does not mention that and where I come from Mish is the final word and will not be required to to read it three times but that is the Min that is brought down in the um and the other thing he brings down is to to have a on outside of the sh you're not how to do that yeah but everyone has very nice good rationalization but not enough to violate an is of moving sa what about another room we'll have to see we'll see the opinion of the villo is you're not allowed to move a sa I'm not sure if we passing that way what of course so we'll see to for the sh of the um you're allowed to do that we'll see what to do in such a situation but by the way RAB if you look in the Mish Mish gives anothera that it's not only Not only would you be allowed to designate a place a day or two in advance M Bru number 15 says not only you all to doign a place a a day or two in advance but we could do is you could put it there that day and leave it there a day or two after that would also be okay provided that you don't just bring it in for the you put it there an hour before and you let it stay there a day or two after um because then it's not recognizable you're only uh doing it for your okay very interesting what about this what is the definition of an what if someone's a mayor a politician a senator says means and that's it because the T gets alyah by servicing these people but oh he's a very of a person okay you could continue to say that but you can't bring him a fine so now the question is are you allowed to bring SE to the house of a Noel well according to the mission of if you you designate a day or two before day or two after it would be okay Rak however said it isur it is us now I'm not telling you we pass but just to get a feel for the the reality of of the inan says is what what isona I believe Hamburg vanck these were the ancient Kil as I thought if anybody spoke about a trip we we're planning a trip there this summer to all the big far in what am I taking that's not my department but I think they're going to have a sa um but I think they'll have it there in those mise anyway that's a separate issue that's a that we're not dealing with now we're talking about it's the wrong thing and besides that says there other problems they don't treat it properly because they keep it in the kids playroom where the kids are running around with dirty diapers you need to strengthen yourself to every um Tom Dick and Harry is making his own religion that yeah we're allowed to uh remove the sa forra but the responsibility onus rest on the shoulders of RA to speak up maybe it's obviously it's a explicit that even the house of the if the and the dies the seber comes her house to and you're not it's a you can't move the sa there so we see from here three things number one we don't bring MRA for any reason number two seven days is not considered is considered and number three I now it's they're going to have to suffer a little bit and go back to the but bottom line is does not allow the move the movement of a sa for an I guess the fact that we do it we're being on the that if you designate a place a day or two in advance that is a legitimate Kola okay that's not my problem that's his problem he'll decide what he needs to do but he you can't move as safe to him so you have to keep it a day or two after that's it m Bru said either a day or two before or a day or two after either way is okay so here's the one of the issues we want to discuss one of uh the issues we want to discuss is that if you D in by the and you have you know the big uh the big AR on the Northern side in the cave over there and when the they go in there and for and he goes and he takes out an he takes out a and he brings the sa to the minion is that permitted because in such a case the people are not going to the Tyra the t is going to the people and they do that every day countless times is that permitted so comes the Tiel of valenberg in the 11th volume of and he says it is absolutely forbidden to do that you're not allowed to go into that area and bring the sa Tor to the people who says you know how to do that the Yami thei says first of all um says um thear the best thing is let the minion move themselves get up and laying the T in the cave there who says it hasem says it it's a like the says in the if you're in a and you need to leave early you have to wait until the sa is put back in its location and then you could leave why because of you're subject to the T the t is not here to service you so and that's how we in that unless you're or in jail um it's not permitted says well maybe you say it's all the same area because oh he says no the says now that's a problem according to the gra because you know very often on you want to take the and bring it to another room to lay it I don't comment on any institutions in the tri-state area but uh according to the gr you cannot move a from from so says the you cannot move the T from this from the to the the co Plaza because that's no better than and if anything it's considered worse than it's from I look in the paragraph that begins I for the it's m to bring it from the Mak and to put it elsewhere in other words let's say you're doing and you're finished laning you're allowed to bring the safeara to a safe that's in a different room now obviously then says you can't leave the sear permanently out there in the plaza unprotected from the elements from the rain from the heat it needs to be protected okay so therefore if the guys in the minion do not want to pick themselves up and go laying the Tyra in the cave then what they need to do is you should put it on a AR and they used to have this I don't know maybe they still have this I'm embarrassed to say when the last time I was there was like 17 years ago um they at least with Thea reports um the original Min was they would put the the saara in a movable Aron and they would wheel it so that's not called taking the seatara out of its place the sear remains in its place you're basically what you're doing now is you're bring you're taking the place of the sear and you're bringing the place of the sear to the people that would be the next best thing if you don't want to every put if if everybody doesn't want to pick themselves up and go Lan it over there then bring the sa in AR or let the whole minion pick up go there and escort the safer Tyra to the place where they want to Lan but but to bring the saara to the minion that you're not to do says to no you're not to move that's what thei says and um the of this is y the Y brings in the name of the chuv that um when you don't have a sa and they if when the sear is not on the sh and the sear has to be stored in a guarded place then on a Monday and Thursday then you bring the sa to in the morning but not at the time of and the had brings down that if people have SAR in their house um and they want to lay on suus in the Suka so how you going to get the sa from the house to the Suka it's in gai to take the sa from the house to the Suka so that what they could do is let the whole minion go to the house and escort it to the Suka so therefore um certainly in the the which is a you should do things in the best possible way and the best possible way is you should lay in the cave and if you can't do that you should put it in an and if you can't do that let the whole sh let the whole minion escort the Saar but to bring the Saar to the minion it's however in the Y YF y ysf brings down that uh the exact same of the in the name of and um and he brings down that in this situation it's more lenient he says and he adds a factor they people everywhere so since there're people everywhere the people everywhere sort of extend the Sho of the coal area to the entire area and even though thear is M I am and I even asked Mar I asked my father and says and it's so for all you you could definitely rely on RAB but um ashh could also rely on RAB but there is something to think about whether in fact this practice is permitted to take the SAR out of that area and move it into uh to the minan okay what about another issue and that is or when you have so what happens so there's some kind of custom where as is coming toward the sh you take all the out of the and you bring it outside to greet the so says what in the world are people doing he says in um even if the is distressed you can't bring out the sa to the and you can't even take a sa in the says to greet other that are new and um he says over here says that you're never allowed to move a sa what but you know this sa is going to be lonely it will only be a few extra seconds and soon he'll be in the company of many other however says the ra um and brings down that R AB permitted to take out a SE to greet another SE and even to bring um other from one sh to another so that on you have seven it is permitted and it would only be to take out so apparently there is a uh there is a position that is is permitted to take out to greet a coming so bottom line are we allowed to do this there's a in the whether it is a correct practice that when a new is brought to to bring out the other quotes thei and who says we don't move he quotes the M says well wait a second but you are allowed to take out a sa for you're lad bringing out to greet an and the says that if you stand up for you certainly stand up for a so let's make a that if you're allowed to bring a to Anam certainly you'd be allowed to bring out a to another sa but he says that's not necessarily a sound argument because when are you allowed to bring out a to that's to read from it but to bring out a to other you're not bringing it out to read from you're just bringing it out as a greeting it could be it's not permitted especially Z the Z is very says about taking out of however says R if you look at the brings an opinion that you are allowed to take out a this is in in number 22 you are allowed to take toet other and then he brings the brings from the not also of Italy he permitted one R did not allow AER to take home and and proved that the whole of the Z of moving a is only for but to fix the you're for sure allowed to Andes like this all the big rabbis allow to be brought to greet other nobody said ferar that's where lived he lived in Ferrara in the city of Ferrara they did allow in Ferrara in this one beautiful city of Ferrara we allow it but they don't bring the seor out of the shal of the the uh Courtyard of the besses because they don't need to and then he says um in Sophia and agafia they also they also bring out s to greet other SRA and in they do the same and so concludes this is what emerges the custom of bringing to greet other has very strong foundations and the greatest of rabbis witness this custom without saying a word and the custom and therefore those who want to challenge it based on the um are incorrect and they are being and therefore this is a correct practice and endorses the custom of bringing out to Greed other even though it's not being read from yeah that is a could you bring a riot from hak now which St for tar were they laning from was it the now we're gonna see by the way the Frank in number 23 in Sim Al he says this entire issue is only talking about SE that belongs to aor but if it's your personal SE then it is your folding chair and you could do whatever you want with that it's yours you own it and you have complete uh control over it he says uh the second to last paragraph in number 23 then you could move it it's it's personal property it's my it does not have the restrictions so apparently yeah but it's not hooked to theore if it's not hooked to theore then you could sort of stipulate I'm only I'm writing it on condition that I'm in charge and you can maintain control over it cuz I wrote it for me to learn from so if I wrote for me to learn from I yeah I'm going to AA now you know sometimes people it's very nice thing to learn you know you don't need to bring the to you know so imagine a guy takes out he whips out of he does HBA but that's what that's what the heart pin yeah so so far based on everything we saw it would not seem to be a legitimate basis to take it out and to re from it outside of the the main uh the main room but now we're going to bring in one additional factor that may change this um the last Shila of the day is the the sh of the heart and the issue is you know in many shs it's like a minion Factory and you have the main sanctuary as you call it and then you have something called the the pish which is the the hallway the side room yeah the B and uh here's the issue and you know there the 9:00 minion they're still ding um or they're they're uh they're just getting started the 9:00 minion just getting started 8:30 minion you know they they can come into the main sh to Lane so they want a lane in the bayen are you allow to move the sa to the hallway to be able to Lane for them so so far we said you know I'll do that that's you know but now the question is is there if we find any basis for that and says the don't forget to be what was said that even though we passing like the that you cannot move a to a or someone or somebody who is an that's only an individual but if you have a minion so now he the said maybe even the would agree you could move the Tyra to the seore and in such a case that if somebody's an and they can't come to the T you could bring the tah to them well in such a case the 8:30 minion is an onus what do you want them to do wait around till 9:00 minion finishes to Lane they got to go they got to go to work so they can't lean in the shore so now why are they any than the 10 people in jail or 10 people in the hospital that you're allowed to move the for so look in the in the heart look at number 23 the left hand column the top paragraph that even the whoers to bring a sa to people in jail that's only but um if you have a minion since the of on them and they can't go there we could bring it to them now the asks on the that the usami is not Mash that way why because Yami asks how could you bring the saer to the but um excuse me how can you bring the to Thea but the rala is not an wait a second the r gusa had a he had a minion with him at um excuse me how could you how could you bring the to what's the Shi but the K God has a minion El even when there's a minion you can't bring a sa for not like the be so the heart says no what are you talking about the has a minion but the minion with him are not in the the only one who in the the is a he needs a minion because otherwise he can't read from the T but you can't prove that you're now to move the sa for a minion you could still uh you could still conjecture as does and you could still advance that if you have a minion who and they can't go to the Torah you could bring the Torah to therefore concludes the if the Min that are ding in the hall cannot come into the sh on them bring the sa to them it's m now would that be a het for I don't think so I would say here you have people they woke up at 8:30 they don't want to wait around the half hour they have so it's and they're onos they can't go into 9:00 minion they're up to say the 9:00 minion so so why can't you bring the Torah to them but so on everybody so so Lane so wait here in Lane no I don't want to wait so long doesn't push off moving what pushes of moving in is the has a and they're anus and they can't go there so I don't unless you say um like like and you're you say not like the V that you'll say you can move it from and it's all one area so that's what those places that they move the out out of the room they're probably relying on the fact that is permitted and it's all one sh it's one area and therefore it's permitted but technically speaking if you could avoid moving it out of the room that would probably be better but another Minion it sounds like there is a justification for that and that is the fact that they fall under the category of the that they are a minion and the of on them and you'd be able to bring them to so bottom line is it comes out that if somebody is sick or somebody is to an individual you cannot bring them a if they're you could bring them a if there's a minion in or a minion in the you would be allowed to most owned by and they're lent to you try to use that as a possibility you know it's Rabbi ex's and it's lent to this this and the Sho so he you call him up and ask I don't know because you know what what did he he gave it to the sh it's been in the AR for 50 years and theor is using it El he just has a clause he only wrote that because you know he wants to be able to to keep it for his children but I don't know if he maintains TR of I'm not sure I don't know now what yeah so an individual you can move a you are allowed to move a to but an individual or maybe even you would be allowed to but for a minion that would be different to a b if you designate a place a day or two before that would be permitted now let's say somebody's going on a trip and they want to have Chris could they bring a sa for Tyra with them if they're a y yes if it's aor no what right if a trip operator makes avar now if anybody wants to join us on a trip in August from August 13th to August 18th then uh this is a commercial yes this is a private commercial um then see me after this year but I can't guarantee that we're going to have a safe atre okay have a good day you've just experienced another Torah class brought to you by Torah anytime.com