Shavuot: Chag Matan Torah? Rabbi Shai Finkelstein

few classes about we have too but after that we have and uh we'll try to see when exactly it become it became so uh so let's see let's start from the beginning and we will see how it goes so first and foremost we have twice in the Torah that we have the idea of counting. So one is in so you speak to the to the children of Israel and you shall tell them when you will arrive to the land or when you when enter the land I'm giving you and you shall cut its harvest and you should bring the first harvest to the coen So the is going to lift it up and he's going to do it from so we all know does not mean on a Sunday that's what theim really wanted to think but is the day after that's when quote unquote begins uh just for your I don't know for your thoughts or for uh for a discussion. Why can't we just say why to make things complicated? Okay, so uh it's something interesting something very interesting why they call Shabbat. There is another that is also called little bit like a Shabbat. It's called Shabbat Shabbat. So Shabbaton is like a mini Shabbat, right? Like is there is something little right. So basically right so the idea is is that we need to understand why pes is called but this is not for today and then it says so this is the sacrifice that you need to do let's skip to verse two and you should count for yourself on the day after Shabbat. So you need to count seven weeks. So we have seven weeks but it's 50 days. Now we all know 7* 7 is 49 and not 50. And oh okay thank you. Okay. And the show is sponsored in the memory of Mel and Sylvia David by their uh their children. So thank you. And should be. So here basically if I look at this narrative and I will tell you okay so what did they do in the time of the beta mikdash? Answer is they brought the om right and they start counting something like from after day after pes for seven times seven weeks and on the 50th day they celebrated the om did they have tikun shot? No, they were not as religious as us, right? They didn't have and it doesn't say anything about here. It's basically a celebration of what of the harvest and okay, sounds good. Now, what do you do after the beta mikdash is destroyed? So, what should we do? Clue. What was the nature of shàuot during the time of the beta mikdash? They brought kurban. They brought the om. They celebrated like every other day. It was one day but they had seven days of tashlumin. If you forgot or whatever it is they say and you went home there is no lul. There's no there's no suka. There is no matah. There's no you bring a kurban. You celebrate the the the and uh and then you are done. So cheesecake. No that came much later. So uh so the thing is that there's like there's nothing there's much nothing. It's really a very quote unquote yes but it's a I'm saying when you don't have bet mikdash it's very empty there is no mitzvah that everyone does without the bet. So what do we do here? Well so maybe we do what we do now maybe counting. Yeah. Yeah. So counting will be mikdash. So count and that's it. And on the 50th day stop counting we'll have but there's no real real content. Right? Okay. So now let's take a look at then the Torah again describes this and it says So when do you start? When do you start? When is the time that you start counting? From the time of what? Reaping. The reaping. Okay. Of the harvest which is when no specific day. Ah I'm sorry to burst your bubble. I feel I'm doing that like every shoe and I look at you and I'm like, "Oh my gosh." But uh there's nothing here. The time it depends on the agriculture season, right? It might be it might be 3 days after I don't know. I'm definitely I'm not a farmer. So basically it's very vague. It's it reminds me almost reminds me like the the first How how is that going to help me? Like today I have no idea when exactly they are entering the beta mikdash. Right? So the same thing here and then it says oh what is a festival of the weeks right this is the name. So you bring all sorts of donations. This is wonderful like in every other. So everyone should celebrate with you not only you because that's becoming selfish. You need to basically bring joy to everyone in society. So this is basically what that you need to what to rejoice in front of God. So this is mikdash. So first time this is called but there is no meaning in it. is just this the the holiday that you celebrate the weeks that you counted before. And then there is the idea that you need to rejoice and that you need to remember that you were a slave in Egypt and the time for that is seven weeks after you what you started to walk in after you started basically collecting and cutting the harvest. They used to come in they used to what they used to do it on the harvesting the ome yeah okay because it's a mitzvah that's why yeah the question is good question because it's a mitzvah it's so basically based on these two narratives you basically ask yourself the question even in the time of the beta mikdash was what a celebration of the whatever it's all agriculture it's all about bringing something from your field nothing to do with Torah with celebration of theatan tora there is uh nothing to do with uh with uh I don't know um anything spiritual. It's mash I'm not an expert on uh comparing religions but in ancient religions there were other holidays very similar that what that celebrated the same idea festival of the harvest. Okay, it's not a new thing. But there there is the Jewish perspective or the Jewish the injection of some Judaism to it. You should rejoice others. It's not only about you, it's about the others and all of it. Wonderful. But it's not the we know. Okay. So now third, we are connecting the spir and I'm not talking about zohar not the spheres. I'm talking about the countings. So you should make for yourself a holiday of what? Of the weeks. And it's also what has been the first wheat harvest. Very good. What is the the gathering? The holiday of the gathering with the word. What isu the what? The turn of the year which is when there's more than one turn of the year. Okay. So this is very interesting. Now we have at the end of the what talks about towards the end of the year which is a little strange because sukkot is the beginning of the new year. Oh y we live in two different kufot you have what we call the counting of the of the of the of the calendar starts this or nissan it depends to where you count. Then you have the agriculture year that is divided to four revote based on the rain and based on when you um plant when you harvest it and when you gather it. Okay. For us I guess none of us here is a farman unless someone is going to surprise me. I think it will be easier to find doctors and lawyers than farmers here. Uh but uh they will know. They will know. they will let you know exactly when is everything uh being scheduled. Okay. So we have some kind of a little bit of a combination between the holiday of the weeks and the holiday of the celebration of the agriculture in in the day of the when you bring the first fruits. So that so then when you bring that was the first source but which means what in the weeks but it probably means the holiday of the weeks. So then it will be which means what? You cannot do any your weeks. Mhm. Which can be which makes no sense. Or the holiday of the weeks, right? The weeks that you're counting. Oh, in the weeks that you're counting. Yeah. It's very ambiguous. And then the last one we have really two different we have that's when you bring your first fruits that's and then there is which is where okay still nothing to do with receiving the Torah. Okay. Okay. So, um let's start with the most complicated basuk that brought tremendous tension between theim and the pushim. And we'll try to understand the question that I ask. Why just not to say simple? So, so you should count for yourself from the day after Shabbat from the day that you bring the seven complete full weeks to here there is a a summary that I brought you from different uh and then I want to see the Ramba. So first just it's like an introduction the fiat dukim based on theim which were basically a group that saw themselves as what not how the pushim view them they saw themselves from the and b they basically said a we are correct and I would tell you that the idea um I think I shared it with the I don't know how many people were there on Shabbat afternoon. Yeah, I'm not that generous. I'm not going to share again. Uh but I will. Um that dukim and pushim were basically disgraceful names that each group called each other. We think pushim it's like a praise. Pushim is not a praise. Pushim is like people who are The name pushim was given to the pushim by theim. When the pushim heard how they view them, they call them and not necessarily only because they came from sadok, but because they a think they're always right, but this is not the thing. Sedic is also separation. Think what you do as a judge. When I give justice, what do I do? I separate between the guilty one and the innocent one between the mutar and the between the tame and the which means I separate things. So they the pushim called the stoukim you are the ones who what who left and the tukim says to the pushim no exactly the opposite you are the ones who left you know it always reminds me the confrontation between elahu and Elijah and the king of Israel after was chasing yahu for three years and he met each other so says to him you're the one who hate the Jewish people and says to him, "Good morning." Right? So it's like it's like no you are the terrible one and each one of them by the way thought that they were correct and the other one is the one who deviates which is very interesting. We now in you know in retrospect of many many thousands of years you know we say we were right but we the pushim were right but you understand that the pushim were the ones that basically pushed for a reformization the dukim you're all with me like do you want me to elaborate a little bit okay even if you will say no I'm just trying to pretend that there's democracy here but uh yeah there there's dictatorship here. So so the thing is is that really it's it's an interesting thing many many people asked the question of what exactly were the points of m that made such a separation between the theim and the pushim. If you tell me that it was only just, you know, some disputes, Shamay and El had tremendous disputes and they still continue to what to marry each other and to get along. What was the cause for this mama divisiveness separation between the stukim and the pushim? And there were many many many um many many reasons that were given and very some of them are very good, some of them are a little less. But it seems to be that one of the major causes for separation between the tsukim and pushim was about the authority of interpretation. Um it is a bit of a teaser for my class that I will give in in Hebrew in Hebrew for shave here. Um I will not give you the show now but I'm just going to tell you that one of the ideas is that who is responsible for giving laws that are not written in the Torah. You are so biased. What was there before the kohanim? You look at when the Jewish people wanted to know something, what did they do? They went to the when goes to battle even before he becomes a king. You bring a cohen with a brace plate and then the the things shine. Before a king goes to a war, he goes to the cohen. He asks the and then you convey the message. It's not later on the adds a bit and they said that you also ask the son okay but in the time of it was all about the kohanim and therefore with all due respect to them they can maybe suggest interpretation to what is written but what is not written they have no authority. Pushim comes along and part of it was the lack of satisfaction of what the kohanim uh do in the beta mikdash. By the way, it was not only the pushim that were against the kanim. It was also cannot be against the kanim they are theim part of them they left with because they couldn't tolerate what's going on in the beta mikdash but also Huh? What? Jesus. Jesus. His idea first and foremost was he was not able like many other Jews to tolerate what the kohanim do in the beta mikdash. They were corrupt. Everyone agreed about by the way. Everyone agreed that they were corrupt. Many of them even said that they don't even keep the halaka. And just in uh in beta mikdashi, there were more kohanim than ever in Jewish history. Whyanimul? Because they died every year. Okay? They bought their and obviously they didn't last. So why do we glorify that? We don't But the pope pop it. So everyone was upset with them. Uh but you know the kanim they were very connected and uh and not all the pushim hated them. Okay. It was complicated much complicated. But the thing is the the main thing is is that that sto basically says to hamim you have no authority and also some of your methods basically create things that shouldn't exist or even sometimes are illogical. I'll give you an example. I'm not going to give you the answer but I'll give you the example. Um dafium is makot I don't do d but dum is makot right. Okay, you're aware you you test. Okay. Do you remember what the Gar says in Dam? It was two weeks ago. But you do you do remember today which is good. Yeah. Um we should have deti and Okay. That's a new project. Um, okay. So, in there is a very interesting Mishna. It's a very famous Mishna and and the is like that which means there are two witnesses that comes along and say that Ruven killed Shimon. Okay. The Diane the judges accepted what they said. They investigated and they accepted what they said. Okay. They are executing Ruven for killing Shimon. Two witnesses comes along and says, "Map, how can you testify that Ruven killed Shimon in June 5th? On June 5th, you would with us in Vegas." Okay. So, there is no way that you saw it. We're not saying that Ruven didn't kill Shimon, but we just say that you cannot testify on it. And therefore, you are Miss Zim. What do you do to the Zim? No. Now second scenario and two witnesses come and say killed and before we execute Ruven and two other witnesses comes along and say how can you testify that why did Ruven killed Chimon on June 5th in June 5th you were with us in Vegas we didn't kill Ruven yet what do we do today him make sense you don't kill if you didn't kill Ruven yet you kill the witnesses. If you killed Ruven based on their testimonies, you don't kill them. As they say in a very young language, makes no sense. But that's what the pushim said and that's what the Sto told the pushim. We are amazed by by your methods. You basically create with your method what something that makes no sense. So it's like a if you punish them before you execute the guy definitely punish them what after. So there are some interesting to it. I'm not telling you that look at and the Ramban on the Torah and many many other many many interesting answers to it. So, so that was one of the major discussions between the tsukim and the pushi. Now let's go back to our counting according to it talks about what the what no the is no you are correct. on Sunday. Basically the kerites that's they basically say can change from one year to another. Why? Because sometimes pes it always need to be after the Shabbat. Oh, so if I'll ask you oh trivia question when will be the time that theim and the pushim will count from the on the same day and then everyone will start counting when on very good So the groups of the what they found in yeah the what do you call them that's um so they said no it's always start on the Sunday after after P but you need to remember that the calendar was 364 Please. Okay. Okay. So, the has a different day. The scrolls group has their day. The stoukim have their day. Theim have their own day. The early Christians that they were Jews basically that the Christian 50 days after their pass whatever it's called. Okay. So everyone agree that the pushim are mistaken. Only the pushim were convinced convinced that they are correct. So how can we understand it? Okay, take a look at the Ramban. The Ramban says the following from the day immediately after like the first day of because if you say just a regular Shabbat That's what Rashi he quotes Rashi basically says you need to say that it's the day after PES meaning the day after the first day of PES and not after Shabbat because Shabbat can move not Shabbat can move but which Shabbat you're talking about it will it will not be able to set a calendar says truly this is probably one of the greatest. I will translate in a minute. Basically he says if it was just a Shabbat. So basically it should be what the first Shabbat after we enter the land and we conquer the land and we made that should be what the time to have but that's have nothing to do with he basically says if you look where it says um Here we go. Oh, the first one. If I will tell you only this, what would you say? They when you enter the land, it's one it's once and it's the Shabbat, the first Shabbat after you conquer the land, right? And you were able to. So, if we'll make a calculation, when did the Jews enter the land? Yuden Nissan on the 10th of Nissan. They went through the Jordan River, right? You remember? Okay. Yi. And then it took them how many years to conquer the land? Seven. And how much to divide it? Another seven. So 14 years. So 14 years after Yudenisan. They were able to what? To conquer the land. How much time it took them to to start planting the land and harvesting? I don't know. It might be on the same day. It might be the day after. It might be that Chev already start harvesting and Yehuda started there three years later because each one of them conquered the land in a different time. So it's a so obviously I can't just say so says the Ramban Which means the Ramban says that what do you think God will give you a hug that it's going to change what every time and there is no starting point by the way. Who said it? The Muslims says it their Ramadan changes every time. Vavahu why because it changes they don't because a their calendar there it's a yeah it's a lunar calendar lunar calendar and therefore it's based on the sun and it will change every time on the moon sorry and then it will change every time that's why also Easter and but their Christian holiday of the kil is 50 days after still the same but not the same day exactly So the Ramban says look we understand we know our Torah and everything is set but still even according to the Ramban we will need to understand why it says A and B this is the only in the Torah that does not have a date it's 50 days after the starting point whichever the starting point is which is very interesting we have a date Yonipur we have a We have a date. We have a date. We have a date. We have a date. We don't have a date in the Torah. Okay. Don't they say that we do it on the wrong day? Oh. Oh, there it ma'am. But if we would accept what our rabbis are taught us that what that means what from the day after the first day of PESA it's underlined you will understand it correctly because the Torah commanded us first what that we will perform will Keep uh seven days on the first month which is the first day is called which means you are not allowed to do any theon that I mentioned before the First Shabbat. What is the first Shabbat? The first day of which is called what? Shabbat. It's very creative. Not that convincing, but very creative. What? Do you know anywhere in the Torah that it says something simple? No, but they do give it is they give dates. I gave a class once about the difference between they give dates for the other. That's simple. Why? Why don't they give a date? We'll get we will get the what? Yeah, I hope so. Okay, I'm skipping a bit. I'm skipping a bit. Um, I just want to see that I'm not confusing you too much. Um, okay. Um, I'm skipping to my Viet four lines from the end. Vietam the the sentence starts with the word. Okay. Meaning the day that you bring the omare, this is the starting point for what? For the count. And when do we bring the first day after after the first day of I will not even translate it to you. And why? Because even the Ramban I think will understand will realize that what that what he said does not clarify the matter so much. It makes things a little confusing and complicated. He himself does not have a perfect answer. But he says that in a way you must say that what our rabbis taught us is true. Why? Because this is the only way to have a set day and not the chawat will what will fluctuate from one year to another. Okay. Now I have Dr. Bulganski he's a he's one of the uh teachers in Barilan he wrote something about it which was very interesting and one of the things that I took from there is the following page three Fore. Okay. So he suggest a very interesting innovative reason and that's why I brought it here and oh I'm going to translate if I say that the Torah says the day after Shabbat. Now we have options, right? Shabbat, whatever Shabbat, whatever Shabbat, the week, Shabbat meaning the week that you finish the harvesting, that's when you start counting number one. Second is the Shabbat of Pes. So the first Sunday after Shabbat, that's the time. Okay? So it will change every year. Then it might be Shabbat of what? the first Shabbat after conquering the land of Israel and all of it. Okay. And then so all those options make sense, right? Besides what? The pushim the pushim comes along and say what Shabbat means what? Not Shabbat but rather the first day of PES and according to the Ramb because called what? Shabbat that's called Shabbat. So maybe we should do it after Yonipur. No, it's tapa after pes because it's called. Okay. What happens in a year like this? Simple that will be a perfect storm. So, so why to do that? So there is and that's that's why I gave you a little bit the introduction about the dukim and the pushim the pushim believed in what we said today and what we said yesterday and what we say every when it comes to Shabbat we say we say notes why because according to our kazal God gave us gave us what the power to sanctify the time it's based on us to the extent the midrash says that before the malim says toem when is shah and hashem says to them we will go down we will ask the and whatever the ben says that's what we do we also know that among the rabbis themselves there was tremendous meta tension how to set up the calendar how do we know Come on, you know the story. Very famous was the head of the Sanhedrin. Does not mean that he was the most scholarly rabbi among the generation. Was even better than him. But he was the head and he told bring your wallet, bring your staff, drive your car that is in your on your account and you come to me and he did it. He went to and everyone tried to I don't know to agitate him or to comfort him. I don't know it depends how you read it. At the end he came to stood up gave him a big kiss and says okay like you act like a student to me even though you can be my rabbi. Okay. So we definitely know that even the rabbis themselves had disputes regarding how to set the calendar but it was a common denominator between all of them that we are the one to set the calendar. So when they saw me, they realized that what if I'm talking now about Shabbat, so it belongs to whom? To me, to us, to the rabbis. And therefore, we going to what? To give an interpretation that it might be more far-fetched than theim and the bossim and the kim and all of them in order to what? to show that it is in our hands that and all the rest of them they didn't think that there is a distinction between yto and Shabbat. They thought that what that they are all together with Shabbat and and it depends only on Hashem and therefore Shabot is related to what to Shabbat and whatever whatever Shabbat based on their interpretation that's when you what you start counting the this is very innovative this is very creative I would say that uh it's debatable debatable we know For example, in parat there is something very interesting. In parat when they list the list of how do they start Shabbat? How can you start with Shabbat and then you bring all the so it depends if you are audi or a bite to see what do you say? Ah you see it's all under Shabbat. If you are a pushy, what do you do? Shabbat also has a component of a why don't you jump on me? Ask the question where is it in the kdouch that you do on Friday night. What do we do? What are the reasons that we say in the kdush for keeping Shabbat? One is and the second is what is but was in creation was not yet there yet but was another proof for what for creation because if God created the nature he can also change it so therefore on Shabbat we say both that's a B despite everything you learned in in or in Ghana or in Jewish day school Shabbat is that the date [Music] itself look I think it's for the matas it's form they are practicing form I think you will do I think they do the show whatever it is so they do the show so the thing is so the thing is is what is that um on Shabbat there is also something very active that we need to do doing you can perform Shabbat by not doing you know all the but if you didn't do anything on Shabbat itself you need also some positive result it's what and part of it is what continue Don't don't don't make up things. Just go one more world. The way you make Shabbat that will be for to perpetuate it for the the next generation. There is an active role on Shabbat. We forget it sometimes. We always look at Shabbat as what you can do. But there is a lot that you can do. Can C a n cannot. So that's that's his idea. Now just for the uh remaining uh minutes that we have let's take a look at it's a it's an and it's a it's not such an ancient midash it's a maybe 12th century page three page three we are still on page three the day You see I think bugansi buganski I don't know if he took it from there or not but this is definitely a good proof that what it says what to you what does it mean so really the the simple interpretation is That unlike that who needs to count only each one of us count. This is also by the way why each one of us count the and we are not by the but he wants to say in this he says meaning counting that what that is being generated by what does that mean everyone knows how to count the seven But it's the Ben the Bin will decide for you when when to start. This is somewhat of a proof to what Banski tried to suggest to tell you what when it says Shabbat when he says it's come basically to teach you that what that it's upon you like to sanctify and to tell me when to start the counting unlike Shabbat that we all know how to if I will ask you on Tuesday. Okay, how many days until Shabbat? It's not that complicated, right? You don't need a bin for that. But if I will ask you, okay, when is Shah and you don't have a calendar, what would you say? Ask the betadin. If I ask you when iskot, ask the betadin. Right? So therefore in this midrash you might have somewhat of a of a a proof that what that it's really about the idea that the rabbis wanted to show that they have the power and the authority to determine the times of the holidays unlike unlike Shabbat the is the one that declares it but it's it's dependent upon a right that that's the power of the people but the the ones to decide at the end is the is the beta. So what did we see today because next week will continue. I will highly suggest take it home. Don't leave it here. Somehow they grow legs and they disappear and bring it back. Take Yeah, you have to say it. So take it home and bring it back. So what did we see today? Just uh just to make sure that we are clear, we saw the ambiguity from the get-go about this. Is that a celebration of the omare of the kir? And then we have some kind of a combination. That's was one. The second ambiguous thing was the date and the name that is obviously under debate between all the sects that were in the time of the beta mikdash. came later on. Then the pushim the Ramban suggestion to try to understand it. He he basically he did it what we call he tried to basically show how everything else will lead you to a disaster. So therefore you should pick what the rabbis told you. And then we saw Bugansky's suggestion which is very interesting and very innovative. And we found might might some something that might be some kind of a proof to his uh to his opinion. The cheesecake next week.