Shatnez on a Meis and Loeg Larash by Rabbi Yitzchak Breitowitz

okay just before the uh R begins his sh all of the sh this morning are dedicated to memory he was injured a couple of weeks ago last week quite seriously down in Gaza and yesterday he unfortunately succumbed to his wound so any to learned this morning will be le Lou Nish amaz okay morning everyone hope hope you're well uh again just to remind people because I go off on many many digressions but there is indeed a main topic and the main topic is discussing the mitv in the Torah that are connected to that's our topic and in that connection we were discussing the Mitzvah of remembering the Exodus every single day and then we in turn went into the interesting question uh whether that mitvah will apply when mashia comes because remember Ben zoma takes the position based on the verse in yahu that the Messianic Redemption is going to be so much greater in scope that we're not going to even mention the Exodus and therefore that is a Mitzvah that's going to drop out and our discussion I don't want to repeat the whole discussion was isn't is that not a violation of the rambam's principle uh that the Torah is immutable the Torah is unchangeable and the ram says explicitly that every single Mitzvah will apply when mashia comes including coros including the I'll get to your Forum question and how could uh be an exception to that so you recall this is R Al's question R Al's question on the rambam is how could he say that the Mitzvah are Eternal and they'll never drop out according to Benz there is one Mitzvah that does drop out and that is the Mitzvah of was benus was Benz a coair in one of the 13 Nuna number one that's not very logical and number two the rambam rules like Bena because the r pasin we mentioned the Exodus at night and therefore remember if is mar the night you're not so the r himself it's going to drop out so that's Al's question you will remember that I shared with you the answer of the rashah that says that since the essence of remembering the Exodus is to thank Hashem for G so in a sense if I'm still thanking Hashem for a greater Redemption the spirit and purpose of the Mitzvah has not been nullified the Mitzvah continues but it it simply connects to a different historical historical event okay now the last thing we talked about was a su in oh yeah let me let me address your question the question was raised that bottom line is putting aside the bottom line is the rambam says explicitly that all of the Mitzvah are going to apply liot mashia and he mentions specifically and all the so people ask a question is there not a famous M that says that all of the Y are going to be nullified except for porim there are actually two GEOS one Gea says except for por and another Gea says except fora and por there're actually two texts but that implies if I read it literally there's not going to be PES there's not going to be R shabas shabas is technically not a holiday but no rash no yamer no suus no no P right so how do you reconcile that I mean again the rambam's principle is Torah doesn't change and the rambam says explicitly Li you're going to keep all the mitv what about the that all the mo are going to be buttal and indeed let me point out the ramb himself in brings that very so you can't even give an answer that the rambam didn't pasin like that Kaz because the ram in fact does like that Kaz so how do you how do you reconcile it so it's a very it it is a very good question um the simplest answer is that the word butel a holiday will be butel does not not have to mean it will be discontinued it means it will pale into relative insignificance as compared to puim meaning to say puim will be the most important of the because it shows even in times of Darkness even in times of concealment so butel does not mean operationally you're not going to keep the holiday but it means porm will have a greater importance than even the other holidays and remember this is the remage of the Aris that even the holiest day of the year yum Kipper is called Y and the yipper is a day almost like porim almost like porm of course this year we have porm a month later but you know even in Adan we celebrate to some degree the 14th and the 15th of Adar we call it porm Katan uh and you know usual I am we we look for every excuse to have uh parties so uh so I'm sure there will be celebrations of porm cut as well both on yudal and Tes and then of course we'll have the big the big porm and of course uh it's amazing how you know what does it say the more things change the more they stay the same uh so many years after porm uh we Face threats of enemies that want to destroy us and the source of that threat is from the Persian Kingdom which is presently known as Iran so the humans of the worlds are sadly very much around and uh when we think about poorm we should think about the idea that just as porm was the downfall of the Persian enemy that tried to destroy us uh may this porm also and let it even be P let it be early but let it be the downfall of the enemies of the Jews that try to try to destroy them this is a great great you know as I said last week people ask should we downplay or not celebrate as much on porm and again I'm not pasin or anything but it seems to me that the relevance of porm is so powerful to the exact situation that we're in that it's a holiday that we need to emphasize and not simply forget about your downplay uh in some in some way okay so now I want to deal with another issue you you'll recall we did discuss a su which also goes to the immutability of the Torah and that is the issue of can you put shus on a met right so we dress a MCE in what are called are burial shrouds now this will not come up in Modern Life and obviously know are not made with shatas today but thear often discusses hypothetical questions to illustrate princip even though it's not going to come up and that is the says can you put on a that are shus wool and linen right I'm not allowed to wear wool and linen a Jew cannot wear wool and linen what about a dead Jew can a dead you wear wool and L so the talud basically says there's no problem because once a person is dead they're not obligated in Mitzvah fact that's the meaning of the verse in the dead cannot praise God now the truth is they do praise God in GH but it means they can't praise God by doing the MIT once a person is dead he is so there's no problem in putting shess on a dead body but the only problem the gamorra says is that if if the mitzvot are going to apply after Resurrection so we don't know when that's going to be maybe that will happen before the have disintegrated so at the moment of Resurrection he's in the mitz again and then you're going to have a problem in other words the only problem is not putting it on the dead body but the problem of what will happen when there's resurrection and the gar even says and if there is an opinion that says after Resurrection the mitzvot will not apply remember there is an opinion that says that there's no problem at all there's only going to be a problem if after the resur the Mitzvah will apply this is the g in this was announced yeah this is just announcing that uh this is uh and ver Morel once again we should think about his and the and the family as we're learning so the gamor says there is no problem in putting it on a dead body the only problem is he's going to be transgressing so now this is a total digression but it's a fascinating toos asks a very good question many of you are probably familiar with the that's in that when you are within four of a mes a man is not supposed to have his SES out a man is not supposed to wear filling uh one should not learn Torah and the reason is since the mess is not able to do mitzvos you are mocking him by doing mitzvos in front of him and the gor quotes a in Mish that says rash when you make fun of a poor person right you make fun of a poor person generally like you show off your wealth in front of a poor person say you you are cursing his maker you're you're you're you're shaming God so to speak so lash in its literal sense refers to a person who's financially poor don't mock a poor person by uh showing off your wealth but kazal say that the inability to do Mitzvah is a great poverty and the Nish hovers around its grave and you come in and I you wear your stitches you wear your Fillin you do your learning and this mess is not able to do that that is painful that is humiliating to the and therefore you are M to distance yourself from the Mets in order not to transgress the proverb of scho called This is the and thein this way there is a whole what about daving see this interesting question I mean if you're telling me I don't do Mitzvah in front of a m so if I'm at a Kev the Kev of a parent the Kev of a sadic whatever it is uh does that mean I don't say to him does that mean I can't D in there so some say that anything you're doing in honor of the Met would be permitted like saying to Hill him and the like but if you if you just want to di in something you have to do anyway you are indeed to distance yourself you know you don't dive in right next to a mess uh okay now toos asked the following question if I put shus on a mess and I'm basically telling this dead guy hey you don't have mitos anymore so you can wear shotas oh my why isn't that a low Lush the same low L Rush that I don't wear fill in in front of a dead body because the Nish that hovers over the grave is going to be in pain so if I put shatas on a mess and I'm telling the mess essentially don't worry about it you know you don't have these mitzah anymore isn't that in other words why does the gamor say that the only potential problem is he'll be resurrected with shess and if you hold the Mitzvah are not going to be reactivated there is no problem there is intrinsically a problem I am doing an action that creates the implication that he doesn't have to keep Mitzvah anymore and that the gamorra calls is low rash and the gamar totally ignores that Concept in the context of the shatas this is the of toos in so the offers a very very ingenious answer he says you find that the eer of L Lush only applies to positive Commandments mitzvos like Fillin like cus like Torah learning it does not apply to a low s like shus now I'll explain why but that that's his therefore you will never find in the context of a now why is that so so here's what he says he says a mitz when you fulfill a Mitzvah that adds Holiness to your Nish so I'm going to I'm going to use numbers the numbers are meaningless but they're just for examples let's assume you wake up in the morning and your kadua quotient is a plus five meaningless number when you it goes up to six right every Mitzvah you do is raising your level of Holiness right holy holy holy a mace is kind of stuck where he was when he died because since a mace cannot do Mitzvah anymore a mace does not have the ability to increase his Holiness quotient now there are some ways that he could by his children doing mitzvos Etc but the mace himself does not have that ability so as a result when a mace sees you adding to your kadus and the mace is unable to add to his kadha the mace is in great pain the mace is humiliated the the mace feels SAR and that is the esod low L rush because you're growing in your Holiness and the mace is kind of limited meaning even if he was a great stic as high as he is let's say he's at a million okay but he can't become a million in one he's a million and that's s because you're starting maybe at a lower level but you're able to go up and up and up that's what they say the Von who died suus uh they say towards the the end of his life maybe the last day of his life last minute of his life we're not sure he was crying and he was holding his situs and he said there is nothing like this world that s has cost a few copcs a few pennies whatever it was and in this you can achieve and gain so mucha for almost nothing but once you die where whatever you are is what you are you're not going to go up now alas has a different dynamic say let me give you a simple example the tell us right you're not allowed to murder you're not allowed to commit adultery now I've gone through many many days uh where I didn't I have not murdered somebody and I have not committed adultery right I and I hope that most of you all of you I'm sure have have similar experience now here's my question if you started the day with a plus five and you success F manage not to murder somebody is your kadua going to rise or you're simply going to remain meaning meaning the following if you violate a negative commandment you lose kadua but if you fulfill a negative Commandment that just maintains you at your status quo unlike positive Commandments which add to your Holiness to God I'll go back I'll actually qualify this shortly but that this is the basic idea so therefore the following if a lotas does not increase your kadha but you lose your kadua because you're rebelling against God it turns out a mace is not at any disadvantage in wearing shot this because let's assum again the numbers are meaningless the mace died at a level of five now and I'm five he's five and I'm five now if I put shess on myself since I'm rebelling against God I go from five to four but if fam put shess on since he's not rebelling against God he remains at five so actually he's better off than me because the negative commandment is not going to affect him because it's not going to be Po in his Kad so says the it's not because there's nothing for him to be unhappy about when I'm doing and and learning the mace is unhappy because I'm growing and he can't grow but when I put shockness on him he's not losing anything by the shess because the only thing not wearing shess does to me is keep me at five and he'll be edif five even with the sh and therefore says the there is no din ofv SL yes why would anyone ever put shess on a Jew no no well well okay I mentioned I guess may maybe you walked in a little late I had mentioned that the talmud often raises theoretical questions that are not Lisa now the truth of the matter is the case would be somebody dies and you literally have no other clothing to bury them in other than shinness but the point is what second I don't know if you heard the gor at all I mean the gamor I mentioned is once a person is dead they don't have Commandments right that I understand so there's no proh there's no prohibition if Jews are buried in a Talis which is clearly not shus yeah then why would somebody be concerned about what clothes you put on a dead body because you don't dress them in Judaism anyway that's why this makes no sense well well you know things don't make sense you're right if you have a kadisha that is fully stuck but but remember people people can die in all sorts of circumstances uh people can die on desert islands people could die on uh on tra ocean voyages meaning there are emergency situations where there may be no choice now uh these are going to be rare and far between uh but as I say the talmud will often address very uncommon situations to illustrate certain points so you can't really say well this will never happen I agree with you I actually agree with you it probably will not happen uh but uh the theoretical point is still there that there is no Prohibition in putting shatas on a mace uh and once again uh you know people die unfortunately in all sorts of tragic I I mean I don't want to connect it to gods or whatever it is but but you know you can you might have a situation somebody dies in captivity and another Jew wants to try to bury them somehow and and you may be stuck with an extreme circumstance and you need to know what the is yeah um is there like um what you're saying is there like a time limit because at a certain point the the will leave the physical body know so yeah well the Nish leaves the body right away but but the thing is there's a certain hovering thing now you do have a good point uh which I don't have a full answer for because there is a concept that the Nish H during Shiva and then to some degree for 12 months but after 12 months it's not there anymore so your question is a good question uh so why can't I put on thin in front of a a dead body that you know that died more than a year ago given the fact that the the Sham is not there so that that's a good question apparently even when the Nish is in shamayim it has an awareness of what you're doing in front of its physical body and that gives us s okay so I want to point out that the the's idea that negative Commandments don't add to your Holiness they simply prevent the depletion of your Holiness is not so clear I mean I gave you an example where I think it is clear if I went through a day and I didn't murder and I didn't rape so that probably does not make me a Holier person that just means I maintain my Holiness and I don't lose it on the other hand if you if you consider mitzvah for which there's a very strong Yara Mitzvah because you know most people don't have a desire to murder somebody or at least a desire that they'll carry out meaning the fact that you didn't kill somebody today was probably not an exercise of conquering your Yara sometimes might be but okay but on the other hand take something like lanara right lanara is a big AA and all of us you know we have desires to do that and if I conquer my Yates orara and I don't get angry or I don't speak lanara I would think that that is a spiritual accomplishment meaning to say I think that does add to your kadha in fact there's a kazal that says if you sat and you didn't do an AA if it's that if it's that type of a it's you did a Mitzvah so the statement that negative the Fulfillment of negative Commandments do not create Holiness they just prevent depletion of Holiness is undoubtedly true for those negative Commandments which I am not struggling with I think it would be a little less true with the negative Commandments that we actually struggle with but once again it could be that shess is something we don't have a big Yahara for so therefore the uh I don't get reward for not wearing shortness I simply don't lose my kadha and therefore the mace is not affected now I want to raise another issue and you just raised about Talis because I'm going to give you a case where this answer doesn't work very before I get to that before I get to that let me mention that um the was actually echoed in a different context by the Mahal maral who lived much earlier the maral lived in the 1500s maral of Prague and the moral deals with a perennial question that is discussed in many many many places and that is the teaching of our that the OS kept all of the Mitzvah of the Torah even before Matan Torah this is an old M based on a Miss in Kad Theos actually the Mish does not say Theos the mishna says Abu kept the whole Tor before it was given it seems to be understood although it's a little bit of a jump that this statement that AB ainu kept the whole Torah before it was given does not only apply to AB but it applies to and yob and it even applies to the now because of this there's a huge literature of commentary in which different things the OS did that seem to be in violation of the Torah how do you justify it now the simple answer would have been hey before the Torah was given these laws didn't apply that would be the simple answer but if you go with the idea that they kept the Torah even before it was given how do you explain this so one of the question I'm not going to go over all the questions this could literally be a course in and of itself but one of the famous questions is Yakov marrying Rael and and Leia because Ral and Leia are sisters now under the noahide law under the law that applies to the non-jews there is no Prohibition in marrying two sisters so the isra of marrying two sisters is only after the Torah was given but the problem is if the OS kept the whole Torah even before it was given how could Yakov marry to sisters so the maral brings two interesting answers that he rejects till he gets to his third answer the first answer maral brings is uh based on the ramban the ramban gives the following idea that the OT kept the whole Torah before it was given only when they were living in erel because of the Holiness of AR Israel they felt an obligation to keep the Torah even before mat Torah they knew it withes and the like since yov married Rael and Le when he was in laan's house the OS did not feel any obligation see this is interesting the distinction the ramban is making is not Mitzvah I mean there are certain Mitzvah that only apply in Isel but the ran is suggesting that even a Mitzvah like not marri marrying two sisters that does apply in after Mator it is not connected to the land but when the OS were keeping the Torah on a voluntary basis they would do so only when they are when they are in the Palace of the king and therefore in a sense raal and Leia got grandfathered in that since they were married in Yakov could keep them so to speak when he came back to arel although the ran suggests perhaps this might be a reason that Rael died shortly after they came because once they're in AR Israel yakob is governed by a higher standard now this is the rans Y that only in arel did the OS keep the Torah marel doesn't like that because the morale says that's introducing a distinction that is foreign to the Torah itself because the Torah says some Mitzvah only apply in the land of Israel like truma and some mitos apply universally universally like not marrying two sisters so M if Theos take the position that before mat we don't have to keep anything then Yakov could marry two sisters even in in Israel Eli he's going to keep the Torah well if he's going to keep the Torah he ought to keep the Torah the way the Torah gives it and once the Torah is given it doesn't differentiate between ER so why should Theos make a differentiation that the Torah itself doesn't make no so again the Ran's answer would be that since patan Torah the observance of the Torah was optional and not mandatory so the OS could choose okay that's the ran but the moral claims that's illogical because you either keep the Torah or you don't keep the Torah either position would have been Justified but if you keep the Torah you got to keep the Torah the way the Torah is given and marrying two sisters is applicable in yes the ran also say that only performing performing mitvah in is is on a higher level in performing that's correct that that is the that is the ramban and this could very well be the basis of his distinction why the ofos felt it was more important in ER so that could exactly be be the case now the ra moral then brings a second answer which he doesn't Source he doesn't say who said it but he seems to say it's somebody else other words it's not his own answer and that is when Rael and Leia joined Yakov ain's family they repudiated the idolatry and the paganism of laan of B and Lan therefore they underwent what would have been a preman Torah conversion now it's hard to understand what conversion actually meant then uh but the repudiation of idolatry had a of conversion so here's an amazing some of you might know this but it's kind of a mind-blowing there is a rule for conversion that a convert is a newly created entity newly created that has some very surprising applications don't quote me on it but this actually means if a brother and a sister convert to Judaism they are no longer related to each other and under Torah law it's not genetically advised but under Torah law a brother can marry a sister a mother can marry a son a father could marry a daughter because G shener Ki now rest assured that the rabbis came in and they prohibited this rically because of appearance's sake but under Torah law it's actually permitted so says the maral in the name of he doesn't say who but the moral says that someone gave this answer since Rael and Leia converted by adopting the monotheism of Yakov they are no longer related to each other and therefore these are two unrelated women that polygamy was permitted obviously polygamy was permitted that wasn't the problem right so that's answer number two which Morel does not reject but he prefers to give a third answer and his third answer is very fascinating that and it's to me it's the same as the and that is when we say the AOS kept the Torah before it was given that only applies to the positive Commandments to fill in and the like but they didn't observe necessarily the negative Commandments because once again the positive Commandments added to their Holiness the negatives don't add anything it's simply depletes but if you don't have a commandment you're not doing a sin there's no depletion therefore even in ER Isel the maral says the OS did not feel Bound by Lo sis this is mamash uh many in fact it's a little surprising to me that the M does not quote the mar but it seems to me it's exactly the same the same sp Let me give you another context where this comes up uh you know the familiar principle that even if a person is not obligated in the Commandment if they do the Commandment they still get reward but it's a lesser level of reward this is called God VI meaning the person who is commanded to do a Mitzvah gets more reward than a person who does a a commandment does a Mitzvah that they're not commanded in fact the the maral says this is the source of why we celebrate a bar mitzvah why is a bar mitzvah a happy event I mean you might say it ought to be maybe a little bit of trepidation the answer is because until Bar Mitzvah or Bas Mitzvah any Mitzvah the boy or the girl did they'll get reward for it but as an an MIT they're not yet commanded once they become commanded now they do mitv they get the reward of a that is the m of sud Mitzvah Mitzvah uh again maybe we'll discuss another time isn't I mean shouldn't that logic be 100% the same for AAS Mitzvah meaning uh if we were to ask okay I mean putting aside that's not an issue but if there's an obligation to make a festive meal when my son becomes 13 and the reason is because we are rejoicing in the fact that he has transitioned from an to a that is 100% identical to when my daughter becomes 12 she is also transitioning from so one would assume that the of sud Mitzvah foras Mitzvah should be 100% the same now again you may not make it the same way may not take the same form that that's a separate issue but the notion of a special Su now raaj so paskins and his logic is extremely strong he says there is no basis whatsoever to differentiate between mitzvah for a bar mitzvah boy and mitzvah for Mitzvah girl Etc because the is the same going to from to again that is the simple however has a Chua that I will admit is little difficult to understand in which he says although it's certainly permitted and may be encouraged to make a special for AAS Mitzvah he does not classify if it as aah because he says it is it is not of the same nature as the obligation of a Mitzvah but again the the is a little bit elusive he seems to be using SAS as a reason but it's hard to understand because making a suda is not necessarily a contradiction to SAS I mean at most you might say don't make it so public even if you're going to go in that direction but a suda among the family uh what's going to be you know what's the issue of SAS I mean uh people eat are eating together anyway so I'll leave that uh for maybe another another occasion uh but this is the principle now toos asks a very obvious question why do you tell me oh yeah so one second so that means what if a woman takes Lula she's exempt but she gets reward sitting in the Su she's exempt but she gets reward okay so this is a well-known principle it's that even if not obligated in the Mitzvah you do it as an and you get you get you get as an ask the obvious question why should AA get more reward I would think the opposite like time and a half for overtime if all I do is what I have to do so that's one thing but if I go beyond what I have to do I ought to get extra credit meaning you might you might argue that the 12 12y old who goes to shakas deserves more credit than the 13-year-old who goes to shakas the 13-year-old has to do it what you're doing what you have to do what do you want the 12-y old going beyond the law a woman who takes Lula going beyond the law right it's the opposite we would think if I do more than I have to do I ought to get more credit so TOA says the beautiful psychological thought that once a person has to do something the ater Hara is much stronger not to do it because I don't like to be told what to do yeah I'll learn I'll dve and I'll do everything but don't tell me I have to do it once I have to do it I want to rebel right the husband this is not autobiographical who wants to take out the garbage to help his wife and as he picks up the garbage he hears his wife calling from the other room be sure to take out the garbage there will be a moment in which he says I'm putting it down no one tells me nobody tells me what to do right we have a rebellious streak now this might be one of the explanations there are many more explanations why a boy after Bar Mitzvah sometimes experiences a little bit of a decline meaning look there are a lot of reasons I there was a big event but what part of it is psychologically is that he was doing mitzvos as an 11-year-old a 12-year-old gmak he was doing more than he had to do he had a sense of Pride now he's like everybody else he goes to show no big deal that's what you're supposed to do uh I also say I don't mean to be cynical that you know one of the things that's happened in the reform movement over the past uh two decades is a positive development in some ways there's been a great increase in the Mitzvah ofin more and more reform Jews in the in their temples are wearing fillan but the increase is almost 100% women uh so the women are increasing their Fillin wearing the men are not maybe toos is an explanation women are exempt fromin because it's so at most it's going to be but the man that has to wear fill don't tell me what to do and the like now you want say uh okay so now listen to this is there a concept of in a let me give you an example you see how absurd this is the tyus says a Coen is not allowed to marry a divorced woman Isel is allowed to so let's assume that someone's in the sh market and a beautiful perfect shid happens to be with a divorced woman okay let so what if he says the following you know I know I'm allowed to marry a divorced woman because I'm a is but I want to be M and keep the negative Commandments of not marrying a divorced woman because even though it doesn't apply to me but in Isa still gets rewards for keeping a I mean think about that the same way a a woman would say I don't have to take lulf but I'm gonna take lulf because I get reward so why can't the Israel say I'm not going to marry that divorced woman because I want to be M the low of not marrying a gr as an that would be a certifiably crazy statement to me but but what in other words it's obvious is it not that the notion of doing a Mitzvah you're not obligated to do is a good thing is talking about positive Commandments negative Commandments only apply to the people they're addressed to and again once again again it's the same reason because when I do positive Commandments I add to my kadua a negative commandment depletes me but only if I'm rebelling against God so if a calling marries a grusa he's depleting his Holiness if the Israel marries a grusa he's not depleting his Holiness there is nothing that the negative commandment accomplishes spiritually that makes any sense to obser right so we see this common idea in in in the and in the the between negatives and positives now let me mention another thing you had mentioned that uh it is customary that uh in addition to the the burial shrouds a Jewish man is buried in a Talis right this is what is always done uh if he has his own Talis particularly if he used the Talis he D in it uh we actually you know bury him in his Talus if not the will supply a Talis now there is an old custom that the Talis is rered pul the talus is made not Kosher a corner right tus is a four cornered garment one of the corners is cut off so it's not squared P to indicate that he's exempt from mitzvos he doesn't have to keep these mitzvos anymore now the question is this I understand that putting shockness on a mess would not be a problem because it's only a negative commandment but here here the logic is l l rush if if I don't wear my ties in front of the dead body because I'm mocking him that he no longer can do the Mitzvah I'm certainly mocking him by putting on a pule Talis by saying hey it doesn't make a difference for you anymore and here you can't give the answer to distinguish between negative and positive because wearing CED is a positive command that adds to your Holiness and the Mets is not doing it so the question is what is the justification of making the talage pule why isn't that Lush now because of this there were a number of gdan who disagreed with this Mina and they left an instruction that they wanted to be buried in a kosher Talus and I'll tell you two stories about this because they both occurred around the same time uh one story involved the vag G the vag himself left instructions that he was to be buried in a kosher talas because he felt it was Ling L rush now the villag as I mentioned died and for the last uh months of his life uh there was I think his wife his wife was already n teras his wife predeceased him uh so he was alone but there were tum that would take care of him and uh one of his closest TM was a person called rava and ravaja was with the G for 24 hours a day but after yum Kipper the vagon seemed to be in relatively good health and there were other people around he had children around Saga wanted to visit his parents who live near vilna for circus he just went to his parents uh forus and then he gets word that the vagon got very ill and died suus so he rushed back to go to the Leva and not just because it's Lev of his REI but because the vagon had confided in him that he wanted to be buried n kosher Talis and the kadish wasn't aware of that yet so he runs back but he comes up in the middle of the funeral and the Von's body they didn't use coffins then just like Yim the villon was already draped in a pusle Talis so he said stop the funeral St says the gr commanded that he wear kosher Talis so a Baston was convened they had to decide what to do should they honor the gr's request so the Von's funeral was stopped right in the middle the Bon convened and they that if a kades allowed us to put a pule Talis on him and we didn't get word until we went this far it is the will of Hashem that we don't depart from the Min and as a result the vagon was buried in a pule Talis uh it's interesting there are other times I think I mentioned it there are times where the vagon wanted to depart from a standard Min and also Heavenly events prevented him the vagon held that one should recite Basim every day even in and every time he tried to do that in his minion uh there was a fire in the show and they had to close down for a few weeks or whatever it was they were M now the second story was almost the same time and this involved a great great sadic in Lithuania uh R Alexander ziskin from hna uh who wrote a tremendous tremendously beautiful mus saer of called I don't think it's ever been translated in English it's really one of the great great great mus although there's a lot of cabala in it maybe that's why they didn't translate it tremendous tremendous sadic uh who lived around the same time as the Von their lives overlapped although he survived the vagon he also left an instruction that he was to be buried in a kosher Talis and they did they actually put a kosher Talis on him but as they were lowering the body the Talis caught on a nail and it ripped so once again that was seen as a sign that you don't change the you don't want to give it to much yeah um I I'll check that I mean you are correct that when a garment is ripped it's not maab Tuma but the truth of the matter is the for sure are right but you're saying because the talus is Holy we don't want have to much M I'll check it I'll check it but be as it made the Von held that that's not enough to override the the low egg the low EG L Rush um yeah I'm sorry oh yeah if you cut the corner off yeah the beged isn't required in C no that that's correct you're 100% correct meaning our our mic was to cut off one of the tits yeah there are two it's a very good point there there are two different variations there are two different variations of what the minog is uh one is to cut off the ties in which case he is wearing a four cornered garment without CES others say cut off the corner let me let me explain the background a little bit that may address the low L Rush problem meaning meaning to put a four cornered garment that's missing the ch is making fun of him by saying you don't have this Mitzvah so that's why the Von said put on a a kosher Talis so some want to address the Von's concern and preserve the Min by burying him in a Talis in which you round off or cut off one of the corners that way you're you're kind of killing two birds with one stone you're keeping the Min of making it a puzzle but you're not making fun of him because you're not putting on a begot that's high of instances so that would be a a compromise for that position I should have clarified that how is it that they wouldn't know that doesn't make sense you know it's a it's a good question I don't know I mean if the D had this wish uh one would have figured it would have been communicated to more than one person who happens to be out of town at the time it's it's a good question I I don't know there's a bit of a mystery in some of these some of these stories um if the Von enough uh he should have made it known to them for sure now they may not have well the MMOs is they would have listened to him had they known ahead of time they actually would have listened to him uh but they did they didn't know uh by the way one other thing about the in the time of the Von there was the famous story of the G sedc of vilna have you heard about this this was uh Valentine patski uh count pusy was the richest landowner in Poland he had 999 Estates wow and somebody asked him well why don't you just get another one make it a thousand he said no no no if people say I have a thousand Estates they'll say oh it's an approximation maybe has 990 but if it's 999 they know this is exactly what I have you know they're not going to round it off or or whatever whatever it is so he was a very very wealthy wealthy man and his son Valentine from the time he was young somehow wanted to be want to be connected to Judaism even though his family were the typical you know anti-semitic Catholics I mean they were not uh friendly to Jews at all and he talked about at the age of seven on chabas he had this tremendous turbulence in his soul he could find No Rest agitated every shabas because he wasn't connecting to chabas So eventually he became a g but he lived in secrecy because in those days in Poland V was part of Poland then goes back and forth uh you could be burnt at the stake for converting to Judaism wow so he literally lived a secret life uh as a poor person who studied with the Von but his whereabouts were revealed by another Jew a Jew kind of turned him in those they only go and curse that family that they continued to suffer for hundreds of years afterwards uh and because count puski had so much influence he managed to make a deal that as long as his son would just keep Judaism in private he could live just don't just come home openly identify yourself as Catholic and you can do what you want privately this is special connections and Valentine who is called Aram Ben Aram refused he said he was not going to represent himself and he says he was he will die he will die KES the night before his uh execution well he's going to be burned he was going to be burned the night before his death the vagon said to him you know through cabala and through Miracles I could release you I could get you out of here um so asked am I Hally obligated to be saved by Supernatural miraculous means doeses require that you use Miracles so the vagon said no because the Tyra only requires natural processes you're not obligated I can I can save you but you're not obligated so he said if I'm not obligated I would rather die Al kesem and he was burnt at the stake by the second by by the uh government by the the the the government in vilna he was burnt at the stake the second day of Shas second day of Shas and his ashes are buried uh next to the vagon I mean the Von died afterwards but they're right they were right next to each other and um until the Holocaust uh in the great shol of VNA when they did Yar they said a special Yar they didn't say for the V go a special Yar for aam B Aram the gedc of vilna uh in the v Yeshiva which was founded by the disciple of the V they had a certain n for we're so happy how good is our lot that was said to be the Negan that the gtic of vness sank as he was being led to his execution that became part of the lore in the Yeshiva I think on you I don't I don't know the myself but I think on YouTube you can actually find it uh that nigan uh being being preserved now the one thing would that be considered suicide no that that's the that's the point um you are only obligated that's the point you are obligated to sustain your life by natural means you are not obligated to sustain your life by miraculous means the Von said I could save you by a miracle a miracle a miracle not changing no you're correct you're correct if if if he could save his life in a normal way he would be obligated and would be suicide the Kish is it was a miracle so you don't have to do that so the one thing that the government didn't want is the government didn't want him to become a martyr they didn't want a lot of Jews Gathering right so they prohibited on pain of death anybody to be present it was going to be a private thing nobody was allowed to be there but it is said that that umand the managed to sneak in and he snuck under the fence and he was right next to the Getta as he was being burnt and he heard theed saying the there's a when you die there's a recite because it's aim taught that to the kto before they were massacred and rander Z said he was to answer aain to the bra of the G right before he died on the second day of shis over his C there was a beautiful beautiful Oak Tre oak tree that somehow sprouted up and that tree was there for more than a hundred years uh the tree died uh in the Holocaust the tree the tree itself died with the destruction of vilna as a city uh the tree uh no longer died no longer was there um so whatever it is is very interesting stories and and the like this is AR B AR haer and uh I don't know why did I mention that oh I mentioned yeah the two people who wanted the Talis to be kosher were the gr and theod and both of them had an interesting connection with AB abam the GE the gr was his rebi and the was he says to be there to hear the braa that was recited I'll I'll I'll KES Hashem so so ultimately we are left with the question I mean just just remind the question basically is that putting the talus on the mess and then making the the talus puzle is making fun of the person but that's what I suggested there may be a difference between cutting off a tius and cutting off a corner you see the difference when I cut off the tius he is actually in a state of transgression he's wearing a four cornered garment without SES and that's l l rush because you don't have that Mitzvah anymore Mas if the corner is rounded uh there's no it's like anything else it's a garment that's not Four Corners so I'm not making fun of him because he's just not wearing it's equivalent to not wearing aalis at all in that way so that would be the source of the of the compromised position okay so I think we finished more or less our discussion of uh next week uh we're going to discussin becausein too is actually a in commemoration of and we'll talk about some aspects of How It's fill and commemorates the ex so R is a dead person correct that's correct and how could you embarrass a dead person no so the idea here is uh the dead body does not get embarrassed but there is a Nish there's a soul and the soul is aware of what you're doing in front of the body so when I do certain things in front of a dead body I am humiliating that soul that Soul feels pain that is a real live entity fact the body the truth is if you understand death a certain way uh death is described as taking off a bath robe I mean a person is going to a swimming pool or going to a bath so I take off my robe the body is the robe of the person the person is the soul so death is nothing more than taking off the Garment the the soul does not die the soul is very much alive okay you all have a good putting putting this garment that appears to look like a talit what is that what is yeah so so yeah so what's the B yes what's the basis of a talet at all like why why not Talis we all age we all agree it's not aali yeah it's not it's not oh in other words you're saying once you make it POS once it's not a Talis anymore what's the purpose of it yeah yeah yeah so you don't need a answer right now I'm just okay all right okay I'll think about it maybe next week okay all right thanks very much okay you all have a okay I don't want to keep okay you all have a good week and uh take care