Rambam’s Letters: Final Class (Pt 11) |Rabbi Yitzchak Breitowitz | July 22, 2025

Oh, so this is the last last class. >> Wow. Okay. Uh well, actually it it ties in well because this is our last uh session on egaritan. So we're actually finishing the unit uh so to speak. Uh I want to talk a little bit though about uh a very very interesting apparent contradiction in the Rambam uh that I alluded to. Uh if you remember uh the last section of Eigger Tman, the Rambam deals with a person who claimed to be a Mashiach uh as a result of the persecutions in Yemen and many many Jews were following uh this person and the Rambam after he talks about the prohibition to calculate the messianic times uh talks about the very grave danger of people following false messiahs. Number one, they're going to be frustrated and disappointed. But number two, the Yumotam, the ruling authorities are often going to take vengeance and punishment against the Jewish people for trying to rebel, trying to revolt. So if it's the real Mashiach, we'll be okay. If it's a false Messiah, uh there can be many, many casualties. And the Rambam goes through in some detail a whole history of the past hundred years before his time. There were a surprising number of pretenders. People don't realize, you know, people think false Mashiach. So they only think of Shabsaiti in the 1600s and maybe Jesus Yashka all the way back. But there were many many pretenders in between and the Rambam mentions four of them just in the preceding hundred years before his time in France and in Spain and in Morocco. And the Rambam details the great great uh losses that occurred to the Jewish people both economically and even physically as a result of these false mashiach. And therefore the Rambam's advice was you'll remember I mentioned last week put this guy away. Uh tell the authorities that he's insane that he's crazy. And once that message gets out, you can then release him because nobody's going to pay attention to him and the authorities will simply know he's a mishuga. And the Rambam says that will be a tova. That will be a great benefit to you, to the community, and that will be a great benefit to him because otherwise they're very likely to kill him. But then the Rambam goes into the different signs of the true Mashiach. Uh first of all the Ramba makes an interesting point and it's not clear what his source is that Mashiach will appear from Israel. So if somebody appears from by definition he's not Mashiach and the Rambam says as well he will appear meet he will come from the gal and he will make his way south to Jerusaleim. Uh exactly what the source is it's not clear. There is a whole genre of apocalyptic Jewish literature which is not necessarily official medish. It's post kazal. Uh for example uh there is a I don't know if it's a well-known book but a a a safer zerubl which is kind of part of the apocrypha and there are many apocalyptic predictions in safer zerubl and zerubl goes behia coming from the north. I highly doubt that the Rambam relied on Sapers Rubble. It it it's not his type of book really because it's whatever it's so mystical and apocalyptic. But perhaps the Rambam did have such a tradition. Uh the Rambam also makes the point that Mashiach will not be a known figure before he reveals himself. He will be coming out of nowhere. Now again I I don't I do not want to apply this to contemporary messianic debates but the Rambam says Mashiach will not be like a famous person who then reveals himself as Mashiach. He will be a nistar. He will be coming out of the uh coming out of the woodwork if that's appropriate expression and no one will have heard of him until the moment that he reveals himself. So these are some interesting signs of Mashiach that we do not have clear sources for but this is what the Rambam says. But most importantly and this is where we get into contradictions. Uh the Rambam writes that Mashiach will do amazing amazing miracles. He will do niml uh and he brings sources in the Gmorrah that he could literally kill people with his words. He could just say, you know, die. The person would die. He will be a Na'vi. Almost as great as Mosher Rabenu. Not as great as Moshe, but almost as great as Mosher Rabenu. All of the kings of the world, all of the governments of the world will fear him and revere him. And although once again we do not make a claim that Jews will rule the world, that's not the goal of Mashiach. But spiritually they would they will acknowledge the Mashiach uh as the spiritual leader of the world. Uh the Gmoran Sanhedrin uh gives a very curious power of Mashiach. That means he could smell somebody and determine what the den should be. meaning if two litigants ruin and shimon the mashiach could tell by smell who is the correct uh who is taking the correct position. So these are all the nissim vinos of yimote hamashiach. Of course, the Rambam does make an interesting point which I mentioned last week just to remind you that this idea that all of the governments will accept Mashiach is only after the wars of Gog and Mog and it is the shita which is an unusual data that the war of Gog and Mog will occur after Mashiach comes not before. So even after Mashiach there will be a war wars against Jerusalem etc. and Mashiach will will defend us and be minak and only after the war of Gog and Mog will there be universal acceptance. Now, as I say, the Rambam is a dat. We discussed last week that according to most opinions, the wars of Gogen Mog are the pre- messianic wars that hopefully we've already had uh and not the post- messianic war. But the fact that the Rambam states that there will be a post messianic war is very very interesting and a little disheartening because it indicates that indeed even after Mashiach is not automatically going to be the end of the Torah. I do want to point out another thing that the Rambam does not mention and he may not agree with at all but Rashi at the end of Safer Danil brings a tradition that after Mashiach reveals himself he will then be concealed for 45 years. He will disappear for 45 years. Uh this is based on a contradiction in the book of Denal in which one pusk of safer denil says that mashiach will reveal himself after 1,290 years. Again where you count it from is a huge mlo but it uses the figure 1290 and another puss uses the figure 1335. Again, where you're counting this from is a big big mak because I don't want to go into that now because there are many many difficult opinions and all of those dates have passed. But simply looking at a 1290 versus a 1335, the difference between the numbers is 45 years. And Rashi interprets that to mean that there there will be a revelation of Mashiach and then a concealment of Mashiach for 45 years and of course obviously people will lose faith during that time that'll be a tremendous challenge to faith and Rashi quotes a potim are the different religious poetry that are added to the tilos. Most of us do not say them today except on Yam and even then we only say a fraction. But the the literature of Putim is huge huge huge huge huge pim for the sholim. Uh Putim for even most of the regular Shabbatos of the year etc. And the most prolific of the pythonim, the most famous of the pitonim, the one who also authored most of the kinos on tishab was razer hakalier, not elazzar, elazar hakalier. Uh and uh the the fact that he is quoted by rashi in many many places shows the esteem that he was held. So Rashi quotes in one of the putim of Rabazar Khalier the tradition that Msiach is going to be concealed for 45 years. Uh that in turn actually may tie in with uh some of the messianic uh or what whatever it might be the absence of okay what whatever it would be. Um so in a sense you got two different proofs are moving in opposite ways. We have the Rambam that Moshiach has to be an unknown entity. But then we have the notion of the 45-year disappearance which you know may lend some credence but the Rambam does not bring that one. But but the the the main question I want to focus on is a contradiction and that is the Rambam does say that Moshiach will do many many great miracles. Uh the ability of killing people with words. the idea of moryan of smelling and adjudicating of being as great Benvua as almost Mosher Rabenu and yet if you look in the Mishna Torah the Rambam's great compendium and the very very last two of the Mishna Torah this is the last section hilosim the laws of kings so interestingly enough in a book of the Mishna Torah is a book of hala the Raam devotes two chapters to Mashiach. Right? That's interesting because in the there's no, you know, there's no hilos mashiach, but the Rambam and Malik actually talks about Mashiach. And the Rambam makes a point several times that Yamote Mashiach, the days of Mashiach are not supernatural. They are not going to be miraculous. Uh when the puk says for example that when the Messiah comes the wolf will lie down with the lamb and kabakar and the lion will eat straw like uh like sheep like cattle. So the Rambam says that's not going to happen. Uh that is a metaphor for the notion that the waring nations are going to be in peace and shalom. And the ram's lashon is olam no the world will run the way the world normally runs. Uh people will have to get a job uh wait for the buses all of these different things. And indeed because more and more Jews will be here so uh the buses will be more crowded etc. Kimhoe now of course Mashiach has all sorts of wonderful things. There'll be peace in the world. That's a biggie. Uh the whole world will believe in Hashem. They will acknowledge the spiritual grandeur of the Jewish people. The BA mikdash is going to be rebuilt. Kibot Scolios all of the Jews will come back to Erit Israel and how will the land hold us. So the Gomorrah says in Giten this is why Erit Israel is called Ereti. Now in in in actually does not mean a deer. It means a desirable land. But kazal darit to mean it is the land of the deer. deerlike d e r and the garamar says that's uh that symbolizes the idea that just like a deer if you skin a deer and then you try to stretch the hide over the body you won't be able to do so because the the skin the hide contracts right away so too Eric Israel looks like it's not big enough to hold all the Jews but somehow When all the Jews are here, it's like the body of the deer is able to the skin is able to cover it in some way. We don't know exactly the land will expand to accommodate all of the Jews. The truth of the matter is we see this beas you know even today uh you know in spite of more and more Jews come to Israel. uh we are v we are rapidly approaching the uh 50% point or more in which a majority of those who are identified as Jews uh will be living in Erit Israel. Of course that creates some very huge interesting problems and that is the reinstitution of yo right we keep shmita we do keep shmita some say it's raan but we do keep shmita but we do not keep the jubilee year we do not keep the yo the 50th year uh and the reason that is so is there's a gazer sakovv that the yo year can only be observed if most of the Jews Jews are living in Erit Israel and for most of our time even during the second basis they didn't keep Yov because the 10 tribes were exiled most of the Jews were not living in Erit Israel. So the interesting question is if we ever reach the point and we're rapidly approaching it where a majority of Jews live in Erit Israel is Yovville going to be reinstituted. Now if Yov gets reinstituted that's actually I mean every mitz is precious but that's going to be an enormously difficult problem. Uh, okay. For one thing, yo would mean you have a schmita for two years in a row because year 49 of the 50year cycle is shmita and yov is year 50. So we would have to have agricultural restrictions for two years in a row. Okay, again that'll be manageable. Uh the hetra that the rabbut uses in the regular shmita could work for yoville as well. Whatever we work around that. But what is most difficult is that when Yoville comes back, all of the land is supposed to go back to the original owners. And of course, they're heirs. The original owners are are not alive right now. Uh so that would mean, you know, somebody owns a hotel in Tel Aviv and all of a sudden uh some guy from the tribe of Zulan uh says, "Hey, you know, this is my land." And how does that work? If land was improved with buildings, with hotels, with businesses, uh does the Yoville, does the original owner get it back with all of those improvements? Well, the answer is he doesn't. Meaning he has to pay for it. Meaning you get the land, but you got to buy the hotel. So, you know, so here's the thing. There will be a whole industry when Yoville starts again of what you might call rabbitic lawyers, kind of real estate lawyers. First of all, how do you trace your ownership? We don't even know what tribe we are. Most of us, right? If you're Cohen or a Ley, but uh you know, we don't know you what tribe you are. You can be from any of the other tribes because even though the 10 tribes were exiled, there were remnants of the 10 tribes that were uh in the US area. So, Yoville is going to be a very very very very complicated issue. I also want to add that it's not automatically the case that if we hit 50% plus one ye comes back. Uh many misham understand that number one you need most of the Jews living in but number two in their tribal inheritances. So until you have the tribal division yog is not going to be activated. And number three, every time you think you got most of the Jewish people here, we discover all sorts of people who are Jewish that we didn't know about. You know, I um I knew Arav who's not alive anymore. Uh he was involved in an organization. The organization is probably still around, Amish, which is about tracking lost Jewish communities and bringing them back to Erit Israel. And the Israeli government initially was very, very enthusiastic about this. He located 35 Peruvians and he located 50 of this group and 50 of that group. Israeli government said, "Sure, sure, sure. Wonderful. Let's bring them back." Uh just like the Ethiopian Jews. uh but then uh he came to the conclusion that 35 million Pashons Pashons are the largest tribe in Afghanistan uh might actually be Jewish or at least descended from Jews because they have although they're Muslim uh but they have strange customs that are unique in the Muslim world uh number one uh you know Islam practices circumcision but not at 8 days old like Ishmael So their tribal custom of the pashons is they do bris Islamic circumcision at 8 days and also they have Jewish sounding names like Rabani Sani sounds like Ruain Shim. So this uh Ravi came to the conclusion that they were at least a safet I mean not like their lovers of Israel so much. Uh so at that point the Israeli government stopped uh their support of the organization. Uh we weren't interested in bringing 35 million uh Afghanistanis uh into into Israel. But the point basically is that there are undoubtedly many many pockets of Jews in the world that have not been clearly identified. So you can never really say right now pre- Messianic. You cannot really say that a majority of the Jews in the world are living in Israel. Yeah. >> For Yeoville. Uh no actually you don't you don't you don't uh so Yeville would be uh very very complicated. Uh, also what bothers me and I never saw anyone discuss this is if you look at the end of the book of Yascll, there actually is going to be a new tribal division. Meaning in the book of Yoshua, we are told what each what each tribe got, right? We're given boundaries of each But when uh describes Yamote Mashiach, he says it's going to be a new thing. The the land will be divided in in equal strips and it's not going to be the it's not going to be the same. So I'm not sure what that means, Lab Yogo, because if it's going to be a totally new division of the land, then that would seem to mean that people can no longer claim land based on their ancestral inheritance. it'll be based on the new uh division of the land. So that's a question I haven't seen addressed at all. But be it as it may, Yamote Mashiach itself will have wonderful things. World peace, peace in Erit Israel, obviously a hereditary successor of Malus base David. Uh the whole world will acknowledge Hashem. The basikt will be a spiritual pleasure for the world. So obviously there are going to be wonderful wonderful things. But the Rambam says in terms of life, life will behed [Music] like like by a hereditary malus. And the rabbi makes the point therefore in two ways. He says number one and number two he also makes the point that Mashiach does not have to prove that he's Mashiach by doing any miracles. He doesn't have to prove it. Uh basically the Rambam says if he's a descendant of David Melik uh if he is righteous uh if he brings the Jews back to Erit Israel if he succeeds in rebuilding the temple then you know he is Mashiach and he does not have to do anything supernatural. So, so the question obviously is that this seems to contradict uh eeran where the Rambam goes to great lengths to demonstrate the various miracles uh that Mashiach will do. Yeah. >> No. Yeah. >> It's like a contradictory to say there'll be peace. >> No. No. So obviously Yeah. Yeah. So, so obviously the Rambam doesn't mean the Rambam doesn't mean there will not be uh special things means other than the specific things that he talked about peace and the like. Uh that's the messianic prophecy in Yeshu that's on the United Nations in its English translation, right? One nation will not lift up its sword against the other nation. Uh that's again that is a miracle and of course that is a miracle but the Rambam's point is these this is not going to be supernatural. This will kind of be the natural evolution of the world. The Rambam source is a statement of the Amores who says in Brahos and in Sanhedrinch there will be no difference between this world and the messianic era. The oppression of the nations of the world will will cease. So one answer to this apparent contradiction would be an approach that I've mentioned before from uh Rabbi Dr. Kaim Salvichek that sometimes the Rambam may state make make statements in his letters that are not totally accurate because he has to make his point. The Rambam has an important agenda to delegitimate this false Mashiach. So the Rambam brings up he didn't do any miracles. I the Rambam in the Mishna Torah says he doesn't have to do miracles. Okay. But the Rambam here is going to rely on those other opinions. Meaning in Kazal itself there is a big makus. Meaning what the Rambam is stating is not the universal opinion of Kazal. There are many views in different midrashim that talk about miracles and the like. And although the Rambam rejects them, he will resurrect those views in order to make his point. Which means to say that sometimes uh the Rambam will in in the letters at least will deviate from his own conclusions in order to push the point the more critical point that he has to that he has to make. Um I do see I saw a resolution actually from a very unlikely source. uh the Satma Rebby uh you know the Satar Rebi of course is known for many of his uh anti-Zionist works uh I do want to point out one thing about the Satma Rebby's uh anti-Zionist works that they are they are works of Torah scholarship I remember reading an article by a professor at Hebrew University uh who was religious but a religious scientist and he said listen obviously He disagrees uh with the Satma Rav's actually Satar Rav's shittita but he said that you got to admit he makes a strong case meaning he's not just a foaming at the mouth type of thing. Uh things are based on sources they're based on analysis. Uh so people who read the Satma are are much more impressed by it than they might be. Don't don't compare the rub with uh the true mish that you come across uh come across today. Um in fact it's interesting they tell the story. Now I have some friends who tell me it's it's not a true story but I'm going to tell you it anyway because it is such a great story that I pray I pray that it's true. But again I but in the interest of full disclosure I have to admit that some smears say it can't be true. And the story goes back to 1968 when Nixon was running against Yubert Humphrey. Humphrey of course lost, but Humphrey uh had been a supporter of Israel from before 1948. He was an old liberal. Those were the days where liberal Democrats supported Israel. Again, different uh political climate today. Uh and Humphrey was not Jewish, but he was a big big big Zionist supporter of Israel. So he had heard that there was a large group of of Jews in Williamsburg uh Brooklyn and he wanted to give his campaign speech in Williamsburg who lives in Williamsburg of course satir. So he comes and there's even a mtorin because most of the casum don't know English that well. So there's someone who translates in Yiddish and the satire was there. Satarb was actually there and Humphrey gave his stump speech that he's been a Zionist since 1946 and state of Israel and no there's no one that will support the Zionist state. He uses the word Zionist a lot of times as much as Hubert Humphrey. You can depend on him. and he notices that like nobody's applauding. Uh so one of his Jewish aids like you know figured out what the picture was. So right after the speech he goes to the sarrav and says you know we have to apologize you know gosh cup you know humper you know doesn't doesn't know all the nuances of the Jewish community. He didn't mean to offend anybody. And the safar is smiling. Uh and this is what the story says. He says, "Listen, I have my disagreements with the state of Israel, but this is a family feud. This is a fight within the family." He says, "I don't want a single Jewish person to ever get harmed." So, I hope that voluntarily, you know, the state dissolves itself. But as long as Jews are living there and as long as there are soldiers, he says, "I want uh Israel to have whatever military protection it needs in order that people shouldn't be hurt." So that's it. I have my disagreements, but he said, "I don't want a single kayal or a single citizen to ever be harmed and I support fully any aid that could be extended to protect the state." That is a a fantastic story. Again, as I say, uh I have some satir friends who say it didn't happen. Okay, but maybe it did happen. And just shows you that ideology and Israel can sometimes run on different different tracks. One can have a certain ideology, but there still can be theat Israel and the concern and the care. But be as it may, the satir wrote um a book which is a very witty title. It's called Alhagola. Now, in order to appreciate the humor in the title uh in Miguel when it talks about uh removing the shoe to effect trans transactions. So, it says there's gula, there's redemption, tamura, substitutions and exchanges. But, uh is saying there's redemption and there's the false redemption and he wrote what he wrote. Okay. Again, I'm not here to go over that ideology. Uh we actually did talk about it before when we learned Shira a while ago. Uh but but in the middle of this book, unrelated to the M's topic, he does raise the actual contradiction between Mishna Torah, that is olam kimh no and tan where the Rambam does talk about Msiah as miraculous and he basically makes the following distinction. It's a further inroad in olam kimhoo. The world will run the way it runs. In other words, you're going to have to go to work. Your pasa is not going to materialize like mine. Mashiach as a person will be able to effect miracles. But that's not going to put you know money in your pocketbook. In other words, the sabarbi is simply saying just a close reading of the text is there's a distinction between the personal qualities of mashiach and the way the world is going to be operating uh in its normal way. So go no way even though the mashiach himself will be a bal mus a a a master of of miracles. But I I want to share with you um something that the Rambam does not bring at all but it's from a much later source. the orim raim Benatar the great Moroccan rav who came to buried on harim I think his site is the 16th of I think it's the 16th or 15th of tas thousands of people go to the kev and haramim and uh the orim wrote a very beautiful perish tora and he is held in such high regard that he's often referred to one of the few people that is referred to as orimados. It's a little bit of accasha. We don't say again it's hard to know. We tend not to use that appellation but for the many people say and for the alo many people say the alikadesh also. Yeah. So, so it's hard to know it. um like who gets the title because there were many many we don't we don't we don't even say okay um now let me remind you that in paras Balok there are messianic prophecies balok was I don't mean bal bum was a conduit for messianic prophecies one of those messianic prophecies we actually looked at initan when the rambom recorded a tradition that he had received from his father that bum was alluding to when would prophecy come back to ami Israel and you'll remember that was the puss where bum says co a time like this it shall be said to yakov ma po what has wrought and the raam recorded his family tradition that what bum is saying is when the number of years will elapse equal to the number of years from Briata Olam to Bam. That is when Nva will return and you'll recall that was 2,488 liata. So when you add another 2488 prophecy will return and Msiah will come shortly after that. Of course that date has passed but that was the Rambam's tradition that if you double 2488 * 2 that would be the year of Hakarua. So that was the one thing that the Rambam mentioned even though he had said he didn't want to calculate you're not allowed to calculate messianic times he offered his calculation but the oray focuses on a different bum says dakov a star has trodden from Jacob from the Jewish people the kam shvet means Israel and a staff of authority arises from Israel. Clearly according to everybody this is referring to Mashiach. In fact, the reason why Rabbi Yakiva called Shimon Benva or Kuziva, he called him Bara the son of the star is because this puss is calling the Msiah the right. So everyone understands that this is a messianic prediction. But the or focuses on the redundancy or the repetition in the PK. Look at the two phrases. [Music] So we see two things here. Number one, we see a shift in the two names of the Jewish people. Just as Yakov Aino had two names. So Kali Israel as a whole is referred to by two names. Sometimes we are called Yakov or Ben Yakov. Most often we are called Israel or Ben Israel. So note the switch here. Come shave it is. So what is the switch asked two questions. What is the switch from Kav to Shvet and what is the switch from Yakov to Israel? So says the and again the Rambam does not say this so I cannot read this into or the Mishna Torah but he says there are different ways Mashiach could come depending on the worthiness of the generation. Kav is a supernatural phenomenon from the sky like a star. Mashiach will be like a star coming from the heavens that refers to a biat mashiach in a supernatural miraculous way is like hobbling on a cane. Another way mashiach can come is through a very naturalistic process. It will not be supernatural. So there is the mashiach of kav if we merit it. And then there's the mashiach of shvet. We'll still have mashiach. It'll still be mashia with all those good things, but it'll be more of a culmination of a gradual natural process. And that's called the sha. Now again that's in the zakary there's a different imagery but it's the same idea. A poor person riding on a donkey. If you remember uh you know it's funny how the Christians try to use this as a proof when obviously it's a it's a stage proof. He says, "Well, Yoshka entered Jerusalem of Pesak riding a donkey and he was poor, so he must be Mashiach because Mashiach is on." Well, the reason he did that was because I mean it's like saying that uh I got to be Mashiach, so I'm riding on a donkey. I mean I mean it doesn't that doesn't prove anything. But metaphorically whether it's called or whether it's called shet hobling on a cane that represents what you might call in more of a dv. So the way you read these two expressions is you don't read the VV as an and you read it as an or. Mashiach can come as a or Mashiach can come as the culmination of a gradual process without necessarily supernatural miracles. Now what does it depend on? So now let's look at the difference between Yakov and Israel. It is a well-known idea that Yakov represents what you might call the average Jew, the lowly Jew because Yakov comes from the heel heel, right? So when the Jews are afar or like the dust of the earth that's Yakov Israel which is the name that the Malik and later Hashem gave Yakov because he triumphed over the angel. You have triumphed with God. So Israel is the term for Sadikim. Jacob is the honikim. So now putting all this together, this is what the orim says. If Mashiach can come even in the merit of the Yakov, if even the average common Jew does Chuva and serve Hashem with righteousness, so even the Yakovs are able to bring Mashiach into the world. Mashiach will come miraculously. But if the Yakovs are not doing their job and Mashiach comes only in the merit of Israel, the righteous, the great Sadikim, then the Oraim says Mashiach will be like a a staff. It will come. Now, this has a very very interesting contemporary application which I'm just going to allude to. I don't want to be mar in it too much. And that is you know we have the um it is a prayer that many many do say some people do not say but even within the group that says the prayer there is one phrase in the that actually is very controversial and that is the phrase the beginning of the flowering of our redemption. Now, that's taking a a a certain position that this is part of the messianic process, the gula of Yamote Mashiach, bringing the Jews back, building up the land, creating a Jewish state. We don't have a BA mikdash yet. We don't have Msiah yet. But this is the preparation for that. This is the beginning of which seems to corresponds more or less to the Aramaic phrase of the beginning of the redemption. So there are some people that say well no no no we love Israel we pray for the state we want the state to flourish but we don't have the right to make the claim that this this is part of the messianic process. Now this has political repercussions as well because you see if you take a position that this is a deulah. So the notion of territorial concessions would seem to be impossible. How can you go backwards? How can you take a step of redemption and go backwards? Again, I'm not here to address the merits one way or the other, but the point basically is deulah commits you politically almost to certain positions that a nonal would not commit you to. Meaning if I'm grateful to Medina Israel, if I'm grateful to Hashem that we have a Jewish state, but I don't give it messianic significance. So at that point negotiations you know do different whatever it is at that point there are different types of processes that one could engage in if on the other hand that's a point of no return can't go backwards okay again I'm I'm not addressing the merits I'm just addressing the controversy so as a result there are that say that but they take out the words now in the United Kingdom in England uh they have a whole other they say a prayer shalom shalom is and it's not this at all they have their own they have their own thing which eliminates the ph any type of phrase now the notion that when the Jewish people return to the land of Israel that is part of the messianic process was articulated There are many but Rafuk articulated it very very forcefully. Again Rafuk died before there was a state of Israel but Rafuk saw in Zionism itself he saw it as a messianic expression of Gula coming by the Jews returning to Arat Israel and building it up and creating a Jewish state. So one of the reasons why Ruff Cook's position was very controversial was that people said, "Well, Mashiach is supposed to be a miraculous creation of a Jewish state, a supernatural creation of a Jewish state. This is a Jewish state or a Jewish struggle that comes by war, that comes by bloodshed, that comes by all sorts of defeats in the middle. And moreover, the messianic process is supposed to be one of righteousness and holiness. And so many of the founding fathers, some of the founding mothers go of Zionists were people who were not connected to the Torah of AmIrael. And in some ways they were rebelling against it. But I think that the oray is a very very interesting key to all of this. That is there are different scenarios by which the messianic process occurs. If the nation of Amnel as a whole is righteous, there'll be these miracles, the sudden redemption via miracles. If not, it'll be a gradual process. And the gradual process may involve political decisions, military decisions, wars, defeats. It may involve people who are not necessarily totally faithful to the Torah. This is what is called redemption through the processes of nature. Now this is not a negation of an eventual mashiach and a basal this is not substituting for mashia but it's simply saying that the process by which mashiach comes may be the culmination of the natural so the point I'm making is this doesn't prove but at least it answers some of the objections meaning it is a distinct possibility that the messianic process may unfold through political decisionmaking through different types of wars uh through even the participation of the non-religious. In fact, RV Cook saw that as a very powerful point. RV Cook saw that as a way of Hashem involving all of the Jewish people in the redemption. And in fact, Ravk Cook made the point that even a Zionist who didn't even believe in God was really acting because his nishama believed in God. He made the point some people come to Erit Israel because of their belief in Hashem. others will come to hashem through their belief in Israel meaning uh that's what drove them here. Um so this is very fascinating because it does indicate that there are multiple scenarios for uh one is the and the other is the shvat the staff the slow laborious process and it all depends on the of punishment. >> So that's a rem to the uh the miden. >> That's right. That's right. So there are you know obviously um in the course of establishing a Jewish state and in defending a Jewish state there have been many many corbanos and of course the holocaust before that even much more so. Just uh this past Sunday I was at um a military Leva in Harzel uh a young kayal uh who came from Norway he was a bod he didn't have to come here uh many people know young people have dreams of making money or whatever it is uh his dream was to come to Erit Israel and be part of the defending uh our people defending our nation And unfortunately, tragically, as so many others have already, uh, tragically he died. And um, it was interesting to see the it was, you know, a military funeral, a religious military funeral. But, you know, all the are there. They fire the guns and salute. And, uh, it was interesting to see these tough uh, breaking down in Sabs. they they care about each other so much that every loss is such a great great great great tragedy. So yeah uh obviously the road to redemption as the oray would would explain it is going to be filled with all of these sufferings. uh but that is part of the process that is the Mashiach the birth pains of Mashiach and labor can be very very painful I don't know firsthand but uh so so I am told labor is very very very painful but after the labor comes life a vibrant life a good life a rich life and during these three weeks especially this is what we try to think about this is what we try try to envision. So uh this is the again the end of aeran. I just want to mention the last thing that the Ramba mentions is he wants his letter to be read publicly in all of the Bisot in Tan and he said he knows he may get in trouble where he is in Egypt because of this but he says in order to help the Jewish people it is worthwhile to put himself in sana that's what he says which is interesting that actually seems to contradict his own truly in the Mishna Torah. But here the Rambam wants to go lift. Now I want to point out I think I mentioned this before that this tan was such a message of comfort to the Ammonites that the Rambam became their idol. The Rambam who lived in Egypt far away was their person their guiding authority and they even changed the Kadesh in the Rambam's lifetime. That kadesh is a prayer for redemption. May the redeemer come. May God's name be be great. You're speaking to the congregation in your life. And they added Moshe. They prayed in the kadesh until the Rambam died that may the Mashiach come in the lifetime of our beloved teacher Rav Mosha Benm. And to this day many many Yemenes in even in terms of not all not all uh follow the Rambam over the later in most gilos both Ashkenazi and Shar is the final authority again follow the rakinazim follow the ra but the is the official book. uh there are many many tim who do not follow the directly although often follows the ram anyway but they don't look to the as the pose they look to the raam as the pose and that goes back to endeared him in a tremendously deep emotional way to the whole kahila he saved them he gave them life he gave them courage he gave them comfort he gave them and by the way that's how you endear yourself to somebody and then the Rambam became very very deeply beloved. So be well may we be to the B