Rabbinic Challenges by Rabbi Shai Finkelstein

okay hello everyone so I guess we can uh yeah we can start so we'll talk about uh challenges of rinic leadership um I'm not talking about the 21st century yet I'm talking about uh ancient times uh the times of the before the destruction of the second bet mikdash and we will learn something that uh it's probably one of the most uh famous uh talmudic paragraphs however I would like to study it from a different perspective okay so you have the Hebrew on the first page and you have the English on the second page I will read the Hebrew because I don't like the English translation so uh so we'll do it like that so if you want to read the English with me that's fine but I'm going to read the Hebrew so raban said what does it mean so basically is trying to understand a and that PUK from from is says what says okay sorry if you don't find them come again no his keysys yeah I can say he can't go too far without his keys right so praiseworthy is a person who is always afraid and someone who hard in his heart he will what he will what is will fall something bad will happen to him so it's a very strange PUK in Mish so that's the initial statement of thear now have that in mind and now let's learn a a story that is a well-known story okay we all know that right was destroyed because we'll talk about it in a minute because of chicken in a rooster another city by the name was also destroyed we'll speak maybe about it later and about something else also beta was destroyed okay so now let's go one by one a so because of Jerusalem was destroyed now it's interesting the blame is being is being put on both not only one them one of them both of them so what's the case there now you know there's always a mistake when you are too familiar with the story you don't pay attention to the little details so Aug gavra what is augra there was a person just a person Mr X the his friend was Kam the de and his enemy was bar so we just know that the friend's name was Kam the enemy's name was bar Kam and the name of that guy is unknown which is interesting because I would guess or I would assume that I would have the name of the person who is going to want to be the cause for this entire mesas but no we have Kam and bar and we don't have his name so this guy the unnamed guy he is making a dinner so he told his servant sh go ahead and bring Kam my friend instead he brought whom now pause here there is something very interesting here that we will need to understand if he was my servant if he's a known servant meaning for many years he knows that my friend is Kam and my enemy is baram so why would he go to baram that's a b it might be that this is just a new guy on my staff he has no clue he heard Kam bar he got Bar Third who is bar so in aramit bar is what the son of Kam so that's interesting so I'm very friendly with the father and I hate the son that's what it seems to be right Kam and B it's not two different people they are two different people but it's not like this guy is in t Aviv the other guy is in h in New York this is a Kam and B a father and a son so it might be it's not like unheard of that someone can be very friendly with the father and hate the son okay or vice versa but here it seems to be that we are talking about really a father and a son so he brings to the so the owner of the the owner of the me came so he saw that is sitting at his Mill my who is he came who is the he so we would say that probably we are talking about whom the guy who is the owner of the meal right but take a look at the language he saw that he sat in the meal Amal he said to him he said to him me who the guy said to what are you doing here now this is a bit strange why is that a bit strange it's a bit strange because M what is M this man who sits here he is the enemy of a gavra who is the other gavra that of that man who is the the other man the man who made the meal so it's not the man who made the meal talks to this bar it's someone else my B so now we have a fourth guy sorry fifth guy we have the guy who makes the meal we have the servant we have Kam we have bar Kam and then we have another guest who comes and looks at BAM and he probably good friend with the owner of the meal and says to him what are you doing here here you are his enemy so we don't know anything I mean when you read thear and I know I I I hope I shed some new light on thear you have enough you now you have five people and it seems to be that who is the instigator this guy who looks at this guy and says to him what are you doing here okay we have too many guys here right you have okay kuk get out of here get out of here now who says get out of here so the guy two options option number one is this guy the guest one of the guests says get out of here you are making a scene get out of here you know that the host doesn't like you oh the host the host heard that what that Mr guest proclaimed what what are you doing here so the host comes along and says hey Rea what are you doing here get out of here so we have two options by the way my inclination is to say that it's probably now the G the host because only the host can really say to someone get out okay leave me alone I'm already here leave me alone I'll pay you back whatever I ate I pay for my meal sounds fair just don't embarrass me like that no way I don't need your money get out I'll pay for what half of the entire meal that's a good deal no I hate you so much I'm not going to this is by the way another proof that he's talking to whom to The Host I'll pay for the entire meal [Music] no um 2 4 6 eight the eighth line the eighth line so the host basically held his hand says to him get up get out so bar is out of the mill so B says because the rabbis were sitting there and they did not say award looking at my hearing my embarrassment so I can derive a conclusion from it that they not only they didn't care they were pre pretty much what happy with the fact that he got rid of me I'm going to tell on them to the Cesar and he will deal with them okay um the probability of it is high percentage Yeah yeah it could be it could be someone else right it could be someone else the only thing he says that uh isil meaning it's it's about my embarrassment that's why I said the probability is high but it might be someone else too so now let's stop here for a second this guy is the host is making a meal and if we say baram says look the rabbis were sitting there and they didn't say a word now why didn't they I mean you have a Jew who is embarrassed publicly the rabbis can't say to the host come on we understand it you hate this guy a it's not nice to hate anyone that's a b is already here you know he offered to pay for the entire meal take the money why do you care right you don't need the money give a donation to the co right you know something why the rabbis didn't do anything so we need to know that this is is the prior to this destruction of the second temple and we definitely have a very interesting relationship between the wealthy people and the rabbis the rabbis were invited to this probably a very high power person now I will tell you one more thing it seems to be that Bara is also very powerful how do I know that he says I'll just go to the Roman Caesar and I will tell them about what they going to like can you call you know the Prime Minister says okay I'm going into his office to tell him something no it seems to be that Bara was also very powerful so it seems to be that now we have some kind of a political competition here and a competition between wealthy people you have this guy who is what is's making a meal bam is offering to pay for the entire meal this is also uh something that it's probably a person with tremendous means and is also very well politically connected and the rabbis are stuck they are stuck between what the host and bar and what do they say I'm just going to what to be quiet ah okay yes sure you get up to it later this is because of where is perfect question we will get there but very good question the the question was what do you want from Kam was not even invited Kam is not a player here Kam is no kamza is probably upset that he was not invited to the meal wasn't there a mistake yeah but what do you want from Kam of that's the question the question is both of them caused the destruction of of of of what do you want from kamsa kamsa is at home he's probably upset with the host that what that he was not invited what do you want from that guy you can say because of bar or the host say the name of the host very good question we get invited I thought no he was originally invited but he never got the invitation was he invited by no bar Kam was invited by mistake Kam never saw an invitation because the servant the messenger I mean killed the messenger I mean what do you want the messenger had the mistakes so he never delivered the invitation to Kam he delivered the invitation to bar was so upset that he supported the person that's uh making you know let's let's let's stick to the to the Nar to the narrative father and because the delivery State they live together so that's because of that they destroyed no no no just saying why they gave the invitation to cuz they were in the same house yeah maybe it might be it might be this is just only this is basically only a a a speculation because the fact that it's a father and son does not mean necessarily that they live in the same house but so is kamu for not being bed maybe it was kamu who went yeah but no don't forget he says why he's going to the Roman Caesar he's going to the Roman Caesar because he was embarrassed in the meal not embarrassed not being invited okay so they definitely what's happened with we'll talk about it later on okay so he goes to the Roman Caesar and he says to him what the Jews rebelled against you says how do I know that what you say it's true says you want to see if they rebelled against you or not send them a sacrifice and see if they will sacrifice it or not so he send with meaning it's a it's a it's a calf who it's a thiry third threey old calf which is the best of the best and see if they will sacrifice it while on his way to bring it to the bet mikdash so put a little blemish in in this CS lips and some people say it was in the eye who which means for the Romans it's not considered as what as a blemish but for us Jews it is consider as a blemish and we cannot sacrif sacrifice it so the rabbis were discussing should we bring it to as a Corban as a sacrifice or not so some Rabbi says you know what we need to do it why because if not the Roman Cesar will be upset and will kill us so you know we usually do not bring such a Corban to be sacrificed but you know circumstances what can you do that we will talk about who he was later on says says we can't why can't we because we cannot bring a sacrifice with a blemish right even though it's a we can't do that it's against the Torah so what's the other option let's kill bza let's make him disappear right and if the Roman Caesar will say why didn't you sacrifice My Sacrifice we will say we have no idea what you're talking about oh but I said B B bam died so we will kill so will never be able to tell that what that we didn't sacrifice this this animal no no no no no we can kill him why because people would say that if I placed a blemish in a Corban I deserve death and that's not true it's also against the so we can't bring the sacrifice and we cannot kill baram okay so what will be the outcome the outcome will be that baram will go back to the Roman Caesar and says what I told you they didn't sacrifice it right couldn't they make a big sacrifice different animal good ideas everything you said good ideas just doesn't help you now this is a very strange thing right punished I mean by the destruction of B mikash he was punished too against him too he didn't care about it but he was going to be destroyed so what he could know that so what he's he's he's motivated with rage yeah so that's the case okay that's the story now don't forget what was the original statement it's even being bolded right basically says what I'm going to explain to you the P of what praiseworthy is a person who's always afraid and someone who Harden his heart is going to have to fall in a with an evil trap or whatever it is and then we have the story of Kam how exactly this story explains the PUK okay let's ask that question and let's pause it there now take a look who will revisit everything I'm just reading it today again says the following the person who told the rabbis you can't sacrifice it and you cannot kill baram his humility in vetan destroyed our home burned our sanctuary and expelled us from our country Rea we just said that what was the cause for the destruction of the temple Kam and baram now we shift the blame on whom on the same RAB okay that's a b what does it mean his humility inan I will not call it anava I will call it what being indecisive okay or unable to make a decision did something that many people like to do to say no to every other option that you give them but not to come up with with any other good option okay they are the naysayers right everything is no but they can can up can but they cannot come up with what with a better solution right and the rabbis also I have some criticis criticism on the rabis themselves they should ask no okay we offered to kill him you said no we offered to bring the sacrifice you said no okay so give me a solution Clum nothing he does not say anything and they don't say anything also they should up that's in the story itself for sure so we need to understand raban statement but before we'll do that let's finish up the so they told nonon Nar the Cesar um he's coming for when he came to sh so he sends an arrow to the Eastern side so it fell the arrow fell in so he sent another arrow to the West so he tried to see if really his mission going to be um fulfilled and he will be able to conquer yam so every time he shoot an arrow to any other direction it fell well in yush so that's obviously some kind of a sign that you are going to what to be successful so he says to a a child a Jewish child give me a no not a verse the p is very interesting God says I am going to Revenge the blood of the Jewish people from the hands of adom adom are the Romans so n based on Jewish Legends basically when he heard that verse it says God wants to destroy the temple and he wants to what to send me to do it and then he's going to take revenge thank you very much if God wants to destroy the bet mikdash he can do it by himself I'm not doing that I'm converting to Judaism he converted to Judaism and who was his descendant rabi May n's uh son grandson or whatever it is was RAB may now do we have any evidence for that no idea but that's what the town okay so he SS so he put a Siege over Jerusalem for three years so in Jerusalem there were three very wealthy peopleon father-in-law very good so here it says Ben his son why is it called there is a very interesting story was a very wealthy person and was time in the time of the regalim of the of sukot P whatever there was not enough water for the pilgrimage when they came to yush and uh and then he rented out 12 Wells of water from a guy and he told him I will pay you a tremendous amount of money if rain will not come and I'll pay you a tremendous amount of money so the time came and this guy came toon and says my money there is no rain andon benon went and Dav and hasem revert the Sun and hold the Sun so the day was longer and then rain came and like the was able not to pay okay we're not going to go into all this story maybe maybe next semester next year we'll talk about some of those Legends which are like very interesting um so that's so very wealthy person why it's called from the word the dog cuz if you go hungry as a dog you come out very satisfied now by the way if you want to open up a restaurant call it kalba SAA it will be very very successful restaurant okay come come starving as a dog and come out and go out satisfied as a mench that's going be a very nice slogan for a restaurant right Ben what does that mean whenever he would walk people would put pillows like so his titit will not touch the ground I me talking about wealthy wealthy people and some people said that he had a you know a chair with the mighty great people of uh of Rome okay so there were three wealthy people in so one person one of those wealthy people says I can feed everyone in Jerusalem with what with wheat and barley one says I can sustain the entire Jewish people with what with salt wine and and oil and one says I can provide everyone in with wood so they can cook and can keep themselves warm and the rabbi praise the person who said what that I can provide wood so basically without wood you can't do anything right you can warm yourself you can cook so that's why they praised the person who says he's going to provide wood these three wealthy people could provide food and wood for 21 years of Siege me they had so much so that sounds good right the Jews in Jam can survive no there were this group of people the extremist inam who wanted to what to have a war against the Romans now if you have food and you are under siege what's the motivation to go and fight right so what do they do so those bullies came to the rabbis the rabis came to the bullies says look let's make peace with the Romans you know let's try to find an agreement and we will survive the bullies said the extremist says no way so this extremist came to the Rabbi says we go and fight the Rabbi says to them we're not going to be successful it's just not going to work so what this extreme group did they burnt everything they burned everything they didn't get their way they burnt everything and then there was obviously a famine kafna were je Jewish people yeah extremists that wanted to put push everyone for a war and the only way to do what was to burn everything so now you have nothing you have no food you have no wood you have nothing so the only way is what is fight Mar was one of the wealthiest woman in Jerusalem so she had a servant and she sent that servant and she told him bring me some type of food at the AAL is the B so until he got this to the marketplace it was already what sold you can't find that product anymore so there is something else maybe I should buy that go go bite is The Bu so until he got there it was already what gone okay I can't find this type of food I can find something else so go ahead buy it theal is the B so until he got there it was already what so this is not the most the wisest yeah the smartest yeah I mean come on after the second time just get whatever you find don't go back right I can only find what wheat from barley go ahead get it for me is no again so she said you know what I cannot trust my this stupid messenger I'm just going to go by myself so she took off her shoes and she went to the marketplace meta so she stepped on something that was disgusting and she was so you know she couldn't handle it because she would never touch things like that and she died probably it's like stool or something yeah it's like I think in the English they said that she she stepped on a stool on a yeah which means she never touched anything and now she touched something dirty and she she couldn't handle and she died some people say that she ate the of rad radok was fasting from one week to another and then when raban Ben zakai saved him and the rabbis and asked to go to yav they basically found the only remedy to radok is to give him like um figs and he would suck on them and spit them out and she found it and ate it can you I hope you didn't eat lunch yet but it's pretty disgusting okay it's pretty disgusting and when she realized what she was eating she died I can't blame her here is the story rabad fasted for 40 years that that Jerusalem will not be destroyed when he would eat something you could see it because he so thin so when she saw that she's about to die she took all her money and she threw it to the marketplace she said why do I need all this money I can't even buy anything with it I can't buy food who needs money I can't eat coins and gold I need food there's no food I don't need all that money and then she died okay okay okay what's the lesson so before we talk about the lesson or any lesson let's turn page to page one [Applause] again okay obviously we have many questions but what I want to do is to try to understand first what ranan said at the beginning of the and he tried to explain this by using at least the try to suggest that it's here that the solution is here so if I say meaning you are very fearful of what will happen right so you therefore you are very cautious being cautious is a good thing right mostly tell me please where do you find here someone who was cautious okay very good the rabbis they were very cautious they didn't want to take a side and who said let's not let's not sacri very good sacrifice the animal very good was also very cautious right now so caution is mostly good but here it's not a good thing right because by a lack of decision a decision was made for them now if I compared the rabis caution and aalo aalo once what do you think was more dangerous am I clear with my question they were both cautious what do you think was war the rabbis why oh so very good if the rabbis will stand up bans will be appeased or something will happen right but at least they will say something so the fact that they were so cautious that led to what to destruction the destruction of the BET m now why we'll talk about it so why is it that they were cautious that's the question that we need to ask right so we said that what that they were probably stuck between what between the host who was very wealthy and Bara who he was one of their contributors for sure so the host was one of the donors and B was one of the donors and therefore they said you know what let's play dumb let's play that we didn't see anything and we will not say anything now the conclusion of bar from this entire story is what is that they don't really care and not only that they don't care what is they are comfortable with the fact that what that I was humiliated by the host okay now pause here when said whatever he said why is that I'll put it like that how come that the rabbis allow it to happen which means you have a group of rabbis that says what let's bring the sacrifice he says no why because there is a blemish then he says okay let's kill bakam he says no why because then people will say that if you put a blemish in an animal you deserve that and that's not true so now I don't understand we have a very simple law meaning you follow the majority how come that has so much power to go against all the other rabbis and they listen to him they were afraid they were afraid of what now why are they afraid of him I am going to spec ulate you yeah speculations it's not only a speculation it's based on knowledge rarus was the head of this extremist group in Jerusalem which means he took advantage of this weakness that the showed by not making a decision and basically saying what I will push you again to a situation where a decision a leadership decision must be made and I know that you will not do it and I know that you will not do it which means a lack of decision sounds like the 21st century right a lack of leadership creates a vacuum but there is no vacuum someone else is going to what to take over to fill up this Gap this emptiness and therefore who is going to take over those extremes so it what happened here is a this is always good to be cautious it's always good to be careful but but if you harden your heart in order not to make a decision now turn to page [Applause] three Rashi says he always tried to predict the future that he will see that if he doesn't do something or if he will do something it will not cause what a problem later on in says rash which means the fact that RAR didn't kill bar that led to what to the destruction of the beta mikdash take a look at r henin r henin says the following says this is my fear whenever I reach the three weeks and the ninth of of do I need to trans transl it he says if there was one sin you know the Jews didn't give enough the Jews didn't keep Shabbat the Jews didn't respect each other and that's why the betam mdash was destroyed says I will be more comfortable with that why let's fix it but the beta mikdash was destroyed because of lack of leadership and divisiveness and that it's very hard to fix the nth of us teaches us God not always come and save us from our mistakes we will give everything for what for certainty we don't like uncertainty uncertainty means that what that you can lose if you think that everything will be okay because you were taught that everything will be okay it's a problem I don't know if you remember but in 2005 at the time of the disengagement there were some rabbis who said what which means what it will never happen surprise surprise it did happen and they created I'm saying they created a tremendous crisis in faith among the youngsters we as rabbis we as leaders and you know what we as parents and grandparents you can always say I hope it will be okay but you cannot guarantee that it will be okay it might be not okay for an individual it can be okay for the nation but you can speak you cannot speak on behalf of the nation and therefore says renin when there is a danger for don't say you need to be fearful what isib you harden your heart to say I'm sure everything will be fine I don't need to do anything else I think the the timing for something like that is unbelievable it's unbelievable okay now take a look at one more thing at the end of Page Three it says the following we'll translate in a minute basically asked a question he says what do you want from him he told them the can you kill a person who put a blemish in a Corban the answer is no can you bring a Corban that has a blemish the answer is no okay what do you want from him a b what has that anything to do with him being humble says I didn't ask for your opinion I asked for what for your leadership you want to tell me that we cannot do a and we cannot do B tell us a c that's what the leader supposed to do you can't lead by doing nothing what the what find the solution that's why you are a leader what could have they done get another Corban here a very easy solution get another Corban that it's exactly the same one take baram put him in prison send a messenger to the Roman Caesar says thank you so much for your Corban of this CF a thirdy year old CF we appreciate it we always say a prayer for you for your wife for the dear children thank you so much and thank you for sending it with baram me yeah that's a perfect solution easy solution so you don't kill bakam you don't bring the blemish Corban everything is and no one is dying so that's great but in instead they left they left it like that for for the luck and he says in so he brings another solution I understand that we don't kill a person who put a blemish in a Corban But Here There is a d he's endangering the entire K Israel he's AE if he's AE what you do with him you kill him you can kill him because he was so humble and says oh I'm not worthy to do it he caused what the destruction of the betam mikdash and the killing of the Jews by the way bring me another example from T someone who didn't see himself as a leader very good that was quick sha did not see himself as a leader and Sh Reb Ned him tolda you think you are nothing you are the head of am is you need to do something it's not that you are I understand you are humble humble does not mean being a humble means what someone who understand his qualities and he can still attribute to to God he's not an arrogant person but it doesn't mean you are says this is the idea of meaning sometimes you cannot be so terrified of doing something every decision has a price but if you are a leader you need to lead if not give it to someone else not only that hasm never told him that he made it by himself that's one of the things that Moshe made it up but you see for example with theim Moshe did not act as a leader okay so basically what we have here and we can follow up on all the other questions as well but the idea is and we still don't have an answer for Kam in my opinion just as a side note it was just a phrase Kam but Kam is totally not involved whatsoever here react that's one option second option can be that maybe we had some kind of an expectation from Kam to stop our Kam from going to the Roman Caesar I don't know if he had the ability or not but what we are talking about and this is what I wanted to convey to you the reason for the destruction of the beta mikdash has different solutions in thear different thoughts you know because we didn't give up we were not kind to each other we didn't respect each other whatever it was but here this is basically pointing to a different direction it's not about a specific sin it's about what lack of leadership and when you have lack of leadership you mail this it's all yours so the idea is the idea is is that what we need in a way is leadership and by the way who takes over immediately after that after the destruction of the beta mikdash you see what the rabbis realize that that was their problem and you see I didn't bring it here but the first one to lead was RAB yosua RAB yosua saw the mood of the Jewish people they didn't want to drink wine they didn't want to eat meat they didn't want to get married why because says everything is done Rua says to them no no no let's I'm I'm going to show you how we can mourn and at the same time to continue our life so he takes leadership and then the rabbis start to create some kind of a Rabin leadership that's for today