Rabbi Yossi Goldin | Birkot HaTorah (part 4) | June 2 2026

Thank you. Thank you Roseanne for that. Yes, those who want to hear about that. We can do that hear about that program. I'm happy to share it with you at another time. But uh but thank you Rosanne for that. I appreciate it. And thank you Pearlow for making sure that we are taken care of both spiritually and physically making sure that we're staying healthy and uh and also helping with our spiritual growth through the through the Torah learning. Uh but yes, again, thank you Roseanne for those for those very kind words. Um today's shear um as it has been for the last for the rest since the beginning of the year is sponsored by HDI and Ben Lipshits. So thank you to the lipes for your sponsorship and as always particularly now as things have continued to be complicated up north. We continue to daven that our learning should be auti should watch over them and protect them. Um, it should also be aua for all those who are injured and all those families who are affected by this war that continues to to go on and we dive in that hashem should give guidance to all of our leaders and to all of the world leaders to make the right decisions. Okay. So, we are continuing in our journey to Torah. Um, and today before we get to the text, we're going to we're going to start to delve into the actual text, the language of the braha itself. I wanted to cover two two other topics that are more general regarding brakota before we get to the actual words themselves. Um we've been discussing various topics connected to Bkota Torah a number of issues that have come up in terms of in terms of what to do if you don't sleep what happens if you take a nap a lot of hikic and practical applications connected to bkot to today there are two other topics that I want to discuss the first is where in the in the text of the sitter should birkotra be said now this might seem like a little bit of almost a silly question I know for me it was a silly question initially because in most sidur Birk found pretty much around the same area which is right after a yatsar or after shama. generally within the context right before birkot shakar somewhere between modani and birkot shakar you'll usually find bottora and in fact if you look at source number one source number one is the um discussing what to do we we discussed this debate we discussed what happens if a person wants to learn Torah beforehand does he need a saber kotra before he davins so that quotes two opinions sorry this isn't referring to someone who wants to learn. This is referring to someone who wants to sukim through dvening like in we sayim from the Torah, but we're not saying them as learning. We're saying them. Do I need to say if I'm going to be quoting, but my goal is not to say them to learn, but more as a do I need to say? So, a classic example is so two opinions. The first opinion is if you're going to be saying, even if you're saying them to dain and not necessarily to learn, the says you should say Torah before you say this because these are from are from the Torah. And some say that you that you don't have to say for these. Why? Since you're not saying them as learning rather you're saying them as a therefore you don't need to say and then the ends ends that we should follow the first opinion which is we should ideally say before etc. comes the Rama and the Rama says he says even though the said we should follow the first opinion and we should try to say for example before any that we say the min is not to follow that the min says the rama is to follow the second opinion and there are many people who will say without necessarily saying first why because inot because many communities have the min to say and only after do they then say so is pointing out that that's the general min and then for our purposes this is why we're we're learning all of this if you look at the last line of the Rama the middle of the last line of the Rama in source number one the min is where do We say we say it right after. Now again for those of us who say right after aar that would mean after elk sh but the placement is after you you sayar you say alok and then you say by the way that's why we're doing now because I'm following the order that I generally personally say and we did aar we did and now we're doing because that is the I think the more standard approach as to where to say Sorry. >> Correct. >> Before it depends how early you're sayinghood. If you're saying early in the morning, good for you. No, you're right. You should be. You're No, what you're saying is correct. What you're saying is correct, which is that much you are supposed to say before shak. But many of us are saying it before shakus at 8:00 in the morning. Meaning you are correct that the ideal time that in fact the language of it is you are supposed to say either very early in the morning or right after you're 100% correct that is the ideal many people nowadays unfortunately don't the is very the first night very often we'll do we'll say it we'll say it late but after that we don't but you are correct if you're saying it before morning actually begins then you wouldn't even need to say you wouldn't need to say because the you said although that's also not so clear it depends on the opinion we saw which is that there there was about that what happens if I have a real sleep and then I wake up so it's a good question it's a good question but those of us who are saying at a later time certainly it's already the time to say to say according to the opinion that says you need to say beforeh okay but for our purposes the most important thing we're seeing from this so far is the Rama says when do we say right after aar right after before we start with shahar and that is The classic example that is a classic place however not everybody agrees and in fact there are a number of sedurim that place in a very what I would seem to be a strange place they place it after shakar in the middle of what we call korbanote that's where they put birra we'll get to it in a second and in fact if you look historically so again they put it right before they put they put it after they put it right before we start to say some of the corba of of the psukim of the corbanote but they put it again there's this whole area that we call corbanote which is starts with and then continues many different some of those are actual verses from the psukim orukim some of them are just felot that we're saying it's a combination and that's where many again there's different versions of this but traditionally if you go back and you look at the oldest sidurim the sid of Amrama there's a sitter that's attributed to Rashi. There's a sitter of the Audraham which is who is a rishon that we've also looked at when we're trying to ascertain different texts. All of them place birra after birkot shakar in the middle of what we call korbanote which is very very fascinating. And in fact if you look at source number two the gr the vigon notes this on the rama. Okay, we'll skip now to the second paragraph for now. The in the first paragraph, he quotes the tour. The tour is a is a is a is a is an early aaron, a late rishon. It's kind of like on the on on the on the edge there. And the tour quotes the minhug of what we do which is to say right after and then says the and then says the I've seen in all of the early versions of this rather where where do they put they put it right before the sukim of the corban tamid. What is the sukim of the corban tamid? There are sukim where we basically go through the Torah text outlining the the corban that was brought on a daily basis. And that is where many people many of the early versions of the sitter put to right there. They put it right before we say the of the elk. And that where do they put? They put a little kind of shama after a yatsar and they put botra later after shakar and then he goes on to say again he goes on to list a number of other people who say this as well. We don't have to go through all of this um but he basically concludes that if you look historically they used to put berotat at a later point in the in the in in the sitter. This was fascinating to me because I had never seen this before. If you look at almost all of the seed room that we have, I have not seen a seedur that has this. Um, and in fact the the the the tour's question and the tour doesn't like this. The reason the tour doesn't like this is because of your question. If you look at the third paragraph, the next paragraph in source number two, the tour basically said, "How could you do this?" Because that would mean that you're saying before and how could you sayim before? It says the brother the following. And regarding the tour's question, the Torah is only asking the question because he's of the opinion we just saw the first opinion that says you can't say even as without first saying and the Torah is asking so how could you say this? But says the but according to the second opinion of the according to the second opinion that says you can say from the Torah before if you're saying them what if you're saying them as and not as learning. So then there's no problem because we're saying these as not as learning. And that's how the guru gets around the issue of saying before Torah. So we have here two a fascinating conversation or a fascinating debate regarding the placement of Torah. Not only that, but if you look at source number four, we'll skip three for one second. Look at source number four. We'll get back to three in a minute. There are some sukim, there are some some sources that suggest that not only do we place the the the bot to Torah in the mid right before the right before in the middle of the corbanote, but in fact many of those sources leave out the the the Torah learning that we have. What Torah learning do we have after? We have and then we have all that they take that out and what do they have instead? the corbanote, the sukim of the corbanote. Why they say if you look here, so look at source number four, these three citations all have special all have special references to talorrah for which we have just made the braha. We will explain their special connection to talora as we proceed. However, this was not the original minhagenas. This is Rabbi Schwab of Shimon Schwab in his in his book. In the old sidura of Minhag Ashkinaz, we find briotra immediately followed by three things. va which isim from the Torah. Then we have a mikcomman is Mishna is Mishna and Rabi is and therefore that was the older version of limudra that they used to do after saying Torah. They wouldn't have the birkim that we have and the and the and the older version was what we say later on was their limo Torah which I thought was fascinating. Okay. Now I'm sorry. >> Ah what the what was the text is a separate question that what was the text is a very good question. >> Correct. Correct. Although it's the same thing. We're going to get to the text that there is a makus regarding the text itself. Is there a correlation between the text itself and where you place it? I don't know. I didn't look into that. I didn't look into that. However, it would seem to me, and again, I can't pro I can't prove this. But it would seem to me that this question of where you place the botto might be a little bit connected to the question that we've been dealing with all along. We've had we've had one question that has been that has been the theme of all of our Shirim so far. And that question was, what's the nature of Birkota Torah? Are mitzvah fundamentally or are they what we were calling similar to? Now if you understand them to be similar to Shakarot, where would be the most appropriate place to put it? After Elohirs, right before bir shakar because it's very similar to those braots and therefore that's the most natural place to put it. But if it's just a birkat mitzvah, when do I need to say it? Before I start my learning. And where is the first place in the sitter where there is real learning taking place? In the corbanote. When we say theukim and then we say Mishna and then we say and that could be why they said you don't need to say it earlier. Saying it earlier is only if you because if it's all about fundamentally being a birkat mitzvah then I need to say it before I do the mitzvah. What's the first place that I do the mitzvah when I'm saying the the kurba note and I'm saying the and I'm saying the mishna and I'm saying the gra again that's only that's my suggestion I don't I don't know if that's 100% true but I think there could be a connection between the nature of mitzvah and where we where we place it the one other thing that I wanted to point out if you go back to source number three Rabbi Rabbi Dr. Ellie Monk who has a beautiful cafer on. So in his he places the the korbanote with the I mean sorry he places to with the corba note and he makes a fascinating suggestion in terms of the order of the he says according to my understanding which is that we put the bottora later on during corbanote then we have a fascinating theme in terms of the the way that the tilot go. If you look at source number three, after the blessings in which we render thanks for the gifts of our physical and spiritual sustenance which are renewed daily, right? So he says there's a there's there's a there's a there's some kind of a progression here. At the beginning we say we we thank Hashem for and we think Hashem kind. Then we go to Birkot Hashar and then after our declaration of our unshakable faith in our national destiny our prayers now turn to what has been throughout our history the center of Israel's existence the Torah. The Vil Nagon after consulting all of the known ancient prayer books has upheld this order of prayers as the correct one. It is parallel to and reflects the train of thoughts following in the following sentence. He says if you have this this we say in other places it the order of our according to this reflects this. It says is where we're thanking Hashem for everything he gave us. He separated us from the other nations. That's what we say in we say shal where we're thanking Hashem for separating us from other nations. And then we say and then we thank Hashem for giving us the Torah. There's a progression says Rabbi Dr. Monk. It starts with thank you Hashem for giving us our physical health and our spiritual health. Thank you Hashem for choosing us as your nation. And thirdly, thank you Hashem for giving us the Torah. There's a proper proper progression here. The brotra where again in the second paragraph in source three the botra as is evident from the talmudic source are not to be taken as integral parts of the morning service instead they are to be considered as the blessings preliminary to the daily study of Torah. So again I think he's adopting the position that what's the main aspect of Torah mitzvah. It's about you make before you learn Torah. It's not part of the in a way. Nevertheless, they have been justifiably inserted here at this stage of the regular service. For without the Torah, all the goods of life, which were the subjects of the first brahood, as well as our national destiny, which was the content of the prayers immediately following the brahood, excuse those uh typos, please, would lose all sense and significance. It is the Torah which gives meaning and purpose to the life of the individual and significance to the history of the nation. Therefore, we pray that our minds and souls be ready to accept the commands of the Torah. And so, accord there's a beautiful progression of thanking Hashem for our health. Thank you, Hashem, for choosing us. And then, thank you to Emit. And that makes sense according to this idea that suggests that the Torah should be said during. Now, as I mentioned, the the min that I am familiar with. I am not familiar with any community that inserts botra. I've I've yet to see a sitter that does this that really puts the brak in the middle of braot in the middle of but to me it's a fascinating debate and what we do now is we say it after and because there there is no actual Torah that's naturally a part of the text therefore we addim and and eludim as part of that yes >> very interesting that this Yes. >> It's a good question. It's a good question. >> Yeah. I think I think he was just highlighting that the the order of it is similar to our order. Obviously, it's a very inspiring tila. It's a beautiful tila. It's a beautiful tila. Um there are some beautiful songs that have been written to it. But yes, 100%. It's a good question. It's a good meaning. You're saying maybe it could be like a statement of purpose before before we start. >> It's a good question. It's a good question. It's a good question. Yes. >> So it's not a it's a it's it's a it's invaluing. Um it's toward a very long but in there it's a it's towards the end and it's a very beautiful it's a very very beautiful a very beautiful tila. Correct. Okay. Now let's go on to that that that was question number one that I thought was important for us to cover which is there is a debate. If you ever are in a community and you see that they're saying at a different place than than usual now you know that there is support for that. In fact the historical support seems to indicate that that was the main minhug and we've kind of shifted over time to place it to place it elsewhere. The other major question that I've referenced but we haven't yet done it is how many burotra are there actually. Okay. Now the simple answer to this question is there are three. There are three. We say that seems to be the first. Then we have the next which is we thank Hashem. Again we're going to get into the text itself. We we thank Hashem for we ask Hashem to make the the Torah beautiful and sweet to us. And then we say we end by saying Israel. That seems to be the second. And the third is no. Those are three. Okay. However, there is a debate as to whether the the starts with is that its own brah or is that just a continuation of the braha of the first brah? Now, why does it matter? For two reasons. Number one, the text itself would be different because it should either if it's a continuation of the first it should be and make it beautiful because we're showing that it's a continuation of what we were just saying, right? What was we say the right? It's the VV that connects us to the previous thing we had just said. If it's its own, it should be without a and there's a whole conversation in the whether or not there should be a VV there. But more importantly, more importantly, but in addition, it's also a question about when should they answer a. If somebody's listening to your brah and they're answering a well, if there's three brahos, how many times would they be answering a three times? If there's two bra, they only answer a twice. Meaning when when I hear somebody say the if they say, should I answer a right then? Well, that depends. If that's the end of the braha, then yes. But if it's not the end of the braha, then you should be answering a only at the end of Israel because usually if we're in the middle of one braha, we don't answer a in the middle of that braha because the braha continues. We only answer a at the end of the brah and therefore there is a practical question difference between whether there are two brahot here or three brahot here. So look at source number five. Source number five, Rabenu Yona who is one of the rishonim. So he mentions this idea first. He mentions that there are three brahot. He says very clearly there are three braot and he makes the suggestion that the three brahot correspond to three parts of Torah. Okay, we have three braot correspond to mishna or what's he calls mikra mishna and garra. Okay, if you look at the second paragraph in source number in source number five, Alu shaloshot, taken, lamar, baboker, shalosh in yanim corresponding to the three braot. We learn three different sections of Torah mikra. One is by the way look at what he calls it though. He says he's referencing the old version of what used to be the Torah that learning that they do. Okay. we learnishna which is the okay so therefore again he's referencing the fact that it's the other type of of of Torah that we learn but but but most importantly for us is he holds that there are three and those three correspond to three different parts of Torah mikra Mishna and garra but then he quotes someone who argues the third paragraph in source number five I'll I'll I'll explain in a second. He says asked why is it if the second is its own why doesn't it open with because usually if the first is a short and the second even if it's it usually opens with with why doesn't this open with what is his answer there are really only two the words are really just the end of the first when when the mentions he wasn't saying this is the brace he meant to add on to the first braha the you have only two braots and then if you only have two he says wait a second what does that correspond to Ibra corresponded to Mishna and or what does correspond to? So look at what he says if you only have two. So one is corresponds to T to the written Torah and one corresponds to the oral Torah. And he said it still fits in very nicely in terms of corresponding to different to different themes. Yes. Sure. >> Sure. >> So that's a good question. So let's let's takeone for example. Okay. Like you just mentioned benching. So the first braha is that is the end of the first braha. You say a there. N is the beginning of the second braha. N is the beginning. Most people don't know this, but no, which is the second paragraph of benching is really the beginning of so between and that's the second and that's where you should only be answering a after the even though even though doesn't start with a it's the beginning of the second >> the ending of what though the ending of >> Yes. So you have you have one a afterm which is the first the first paragraph then there's a few a >> yes correct correct so it could be confusing but if there's actually four three are the standard the fourth was added on much later the three that you should be answering a to so let's let's say someone is saying say out loud and you hear them after you should say a after that's the secondh starts with and ends with the third bra starts with that's the beginning of the third and ends with that's where used to end and then traditionally later on they added a fourth bra which is the uh and then usually the min is to answer after to answer there as well even though there's no there's no bar there that's considered to be one very long and you endu That's the end. That's the last time you answer on me. So it is it can be confusing to know where to answer and where not to answer then that and and a lot of that has to do with just understanding themselves which most of us don't. Meaning it's normal for us to be confused and to think that a lot of people think that no day is connected to the to to the first because it's because because on the in the in the actual benture it's listed on the same page. So people get a little bit confused with how sometimes how the pageionation works out and things like that. But generally there's where do you answer for example it would be after and then and that's and then that's where you would answer. here too if is its own bra. So then you would answer a mean right after right after a and then would start would start the bra. But if that's still part of if is still part of the initial braha, you would only answer a mean at the end of the braha. I hope that hope that explains. I'll give you I'll give you another example. >> Yes. What's your example? Okay, good. >> You're not supposed to answer on You're not You're not You're not supposed to answer. Exactly. Which is why, by the way, many people say that quietly because there's a question whether or not we're going to get to that. What what we'll get to it, but what what what what do many people do that? There's actually a question regarding hafi. Is the vhira after mayapai its own braha or is it connected? So and and and and the navkina the make practical difference would be do you answer a main after mayap what do we do in order to avoid that question if you ever notice anyone who anyone who correctly says out loud in Israel they don't usually do it but in America you're supposed to say that quietly all the you say out loud for everyone to answer but the person says quietly why because it's a shila whether or not the person should answer a and in fact you guys are already getting ahead of me getting me ahead of myself that's actually what we're what we who regarding this because of the question whether or not you are supposed to answer a man after the minhug is that if you're saying when you're saying it you should you should say it quietly even if you're somebody who is saying all of the out loud you should say this one quietly because it's whether or not why >> correct >> the bra is a clear braha but where the braha ends is a question and that's why >> yes so that's so you're welcome you definitely have support for that but not everyone agrees to it >> of course it's a tila no but it's oh you're saying it's not a braha it's definitely a braha >> so again let me let me say I I think >> so I think what you're saying and this is this is let let me say this a little bit differently I'll say it a little bit differently I think I understand what you're saying and I want to say it a little bit differently I wonder ah so I wonder again you guys know me already you might know where I'm going with this I wonder if this whether or not this braha is connected to the previous braha has to do with how we look at ifrah is a birk mitzvah fundamentally then you have to separate the bir mitzvah by itself it's its own it's its own brah that's the most important braha to say that vahvna which has which is which is much more detailed much more verbose much more then then what does this do how could you connect the two, right? It would bother you because this is a mitzvah and that's this is the most important. But if fundamentally mitzvah are about they're not a mitzvah, it's a bat, then I'm more willing to mix in the mitzvah and add more to it because this isn't a traditional mitzvah. Of course, it is a birkat mitzvah, but its theme, the major theme is one of and therefore this idea of connecting the to the first braha. I'm more willing to do it if that's how you look from a conceptual perspective at Torah. Okay. I don't know if everyone will agree with that, but I think that there's something there. I understand what you're saying and I understand that you know usually we don't usually all we say and that's it love. We say with love, we say how could you connect to another that that isn't the birkitzvah? The answer is maybe this maybe even though this is a briat mitzvah from a conceptual perspective, it's a different type of birk mitzvah. The the dominant theme here is this is a this isn't just something I do before I do a mitzvah. This is to thank Hashem for the fact that we have the Torah. to thank Hashem for and that I say every single day no matter what that I'll even be willing to add on to a classic birkat mitzvah and turn it almost into avah because that's the major that's the main theme of their of the braha here again I don't know take it if you if you know you're welcome to to to disagree but that's the that's the general approach now let's look what do we do lisa look at source number seven we'll skip to to lisa as we said there's a mloim says the in source number So the first thing you you might notice here, we're going to get to this in a minute, is that he has a different text than we do. Okay, text of the first is not it's what's the difference? We'll get to that hopefully soon. Put that to the side for now. Okay. And then you have and you have you're supposed to say it with a which would indicate if you say it with that maybe it's part of the first. Okay. Look at the below and many say it without because it's really three and that is our again once you see the background in the becomes a lot easier to understand. He's not just like you know choosing to be difficult by giving you different opinions. These opinions actually exist in the rishonim. Okay. And then he says at the very end of Okay, so he says some say without above, some say with with best to say it with above. That's the that's the Rama's conclusion says the why is it better to say it with he says because the following because if you say it with then you're going to be say all the opinions both opinions. Imar below if you say it without above and you just say that only works if it's a if it's its own not saying it with above only fits in if you say it by itself if it's if you understand by itself if you say it's one then saying with doesn't fit in because it's its own it's its own okay and then he says says, "Wait a second. Regarding answering a there's two opinions, there's different opinions whether or not you should answer a because it's dependent on this question. Most people say you should not answer a to the first of if you hear someone make that it's better for the person let's say a person is being mozzy other people or he's sorry actually if he's being mo to other people you have to hear it but if he's just saying it out loud if I'm saying the braha and you want to answer a to my brahood I should the ideal says the misha is that the first braha I should say quietly so that you're not faced with the dilemma of whether to answer a or not better that that you'll miss you'll make up the a somewhere else because of this because of this makus. Okay, so that's that's those are the two issues that I wanted to make sure to discuss and now we're going to get to the text. Okay, we're going to get to the text. The text is the first is and let's look again. You've looked at source number eight. I brought you the gimmar again. The graar that quotes the the different the different. So the first one is what do I make? Now if you look at the riff in source number 10, the riff who is one of the early rishonin in source number 10, he's the one who introduces an alternative text to this first brahak. We're going to today we're going to focus on this on this first brah. He says alorah very different than Torah. Alra means about or on the concept of learning Torah. It's about as opposed to to involve ourselves in in Torah. But not only that, if you look later on, how do we say I sorry, sorry to have you go back and forth, so I'll just say this out loud. But if you look back in source number eight when it quotes the second braha, for example, the very end of it says it says the following. I'll read it. I'll read it out loud. This this is this is a quote from the garra, the original gum, right? that Hashem should make beautiful uh the words of Torah in our mouths and in the mouths of all of Israel and we should be us and our children and our grandchildren or all of our descendants. What's different? Anyone catch the difference from what we have? The very end says then we should involve ourselves in Torah. That's not what we say. What do we say? So this is the second different that the ri the the riff mentions. If you look at the riff now back to source number 10. How does the riff quote that very end of the braha he quotes it as learn your Torah lishma? We'll get to what lishma means but basically for its sake. So interestingly enough we practically adopt one of the changes that the rift says but not the first one. We have but the way but and but we do adopt the change he makes later on what he says now what's the difference yes >> oh yeah which which one the the full according to the riff well that make you know what okay so thank you thank you so she's pointing out that the spartic version of is altora which fits in because we saw the himself in that way okay so that makes a lot of sense very interesting I didn't know that thank you what's the between altora and so why is so such a different >> what do you mean >> according >> excellent okay so the question the word la means to be involved in to busy yourself to to be to again depending on how inspiring you want to go but to throw yourself into detra altora to me sounds a little bit more like a lot more pariv Thank you, Hashem, for the Torah. Torah or or Hashem commanded us to Torah to learn Torah. If Hashem commands us Torah, that's a very very different type of mitsia. That's a very different type. That's a very different type of experience. And so, in fact, if you look at some of the different interpretations for what Lok means. They're all very similar, but they're different in in in a number of nuances that I think are very beautiful and very inspiring. If you look at source number 11 in his says means he says he says is a specific type of learning he says it's not learning learning now again some would argue those who are passionate about learning and learning mikra will argue no you could be just as passionate about looking learning kumsh as you are about garra but ravden claims that when we say la so it's a reference to garra Why? Because gimar is very involved type of learning. He says it's it requires a certain deep understanding and this is referring to what we would call medish or learning means to do business with the Torah. What does that mean to do business? to go back and forth to have a where you're asking questions and you're giving answers. It's an involved type of learning. Okay. So, this is a little bit different from what you were saying. This isn't just about being active in fulfilling the Torah. What Raen is saying is learning Torah or learning is an active form of Torah. When you really want to learn Torah, you need to throw yourself into the learning of the Torah, right? You can't just sit there passively listening, passively just going through the the motions. You need to throw yourself into the learning. He says means you're asking questions and you're answering the questions and you're trying to understand it. That he says that's means you throw yourself into the learning and the learning is something which is intensive and and passionate and that's the type of learning that we're trying to get. That's the learning center of Yakov and that we're at that we're talking about when we say the in source number 12 says something a little bit different. He suggests what you were saying which is that learning when we say what we're pointing to is that when we learn Torah, we're not just learning Torah to learn Torah. We're learning Torah why? To fulfill the Torah. And fulfill the Torah means to be involved actively in during Torah. One of the beautiful aspects of the mitzvah of learning Torah is it does not just entail it's look at source number 12 of the main promise that Hashem gives us is for our involvement in learning Torah. It's the work and the intensity that we put into our learning Torah. Because why do we learn Torah? We learn Torah because the purpose is so when we say it's referring to two things. is referring to a the intensiveness. The intens no the intensivity not intensiveness. Forgive me. >> Intensity. There is no intensivity. Thank you. >> I've been living here too long. This is almost 19 years. So I have that that's the one thing I can say is that I'm learn I'm losing some of my some of my English. Intensity. Okay. The intensity with which we learn Torah. That's what Torah means. But it also means we're learning in order to do. And when you do, you you involve your whole self in the doing. And that's what Torah it means being involved in Torah throughout the day. Being involved in Torah fully in source number 13 says it a little bit differently. And he says that what this refers to the Torah only is only is maintained. This is a famous line where the where the Gmorrah basically says that Torah only stays by somebody who literally it means kills themsself over the Torah. But what it really means is gives of themselves. Someone who dedicates themselves to to learning Torah. Somebody who involves themselves in the Torah. And this doesn't just mean that you learn with intensity, but it means sometimes you give up on your own personal pleasures in order to learn Torah. somebody who okay could be going to the beach or could be going to the pool or could be going out with friends and instead is learning Torah. Oh, Torah means I am willing to sacrifice certain things in order to be involved in limitra. That doesn't mean of course that I shouldn't have pleasures that are important to me that give me a time to breathe and and etc. But Torah says the says says the taz means somebody who is willing to push themselves in order to learn Torah. Yes, I saw a question or comment. >> So, excellent. I think that's I >> Yes. So, I think that >> excellent >> in Torah. >> Not not lima Torah, but an act fulfilling the Torah. >> Right. So, I Excellent. Excellent. So I think that I think that's what the Bach is saying. Meaning I think the second interpretation when I when the Bach says that means to learn the Torah in order to fulfill it. That's exactly what he's saying. What mitzvah are we referring to? We're referring to all mitzvah. We're referring to a person should be says means you should be involving your life living a life of Torah. And when you learn Torah, the purpose of the learning of the Torah is to live a life of Torah, is to be active in that. And that's why the language of laok doesn't just mean, like we saw before, to be involved in the in in the shakaria and the learning itself. That's also very important, but it's another level of living a life of Torah. That's included at least according to the Bach in. So we what we saw are three different explanations for Torah. Explanation number one was Rayakov that it's referring to the style of learning. It's referring to style of learning gimmar where there's an intensity. There's a back and forth. There's a shakara. He calls it pillpull visvara. There's a there's an intensive way that one learns that requires a deep dedication and intensity. You need to sit down. Anyone who has learned you need to have a few hours to sit down and learn because you need to really delve delve deep into doing so. As I mentioned, there are some who might claim that you do the same thing with with with with definitely become more common lately. There are many people who to learn in a similar way. But the idea here is the intensity with which you learn the Torah, which is you need to it's not just something you read superficially. It's not just a sheer I listen to. It's something where I throw myself into the learning. That's one interpretation. Interpretation number two was the Bach that Torah means I am learning the Torah in order to involve myself in the Torah practically in order to fulfill the Torah as he says here the purpose of learning Torah is to keep the Torah to fulfill the Torah involved in but involved in all of the mitzvah that I do that's all Torah because I'm involving myself in the Torah dua itself and the third explanation that I understand from the Taz is a little bit more nuanced where He's not just talking about the the the the involvement needed in learning Torah, but it's the sacrifice needed to learn Torah. The way that a person, as he calls it, may Torah, somebody who needs to sacrifice certain things that they might have to give up in order to learn Torah. And that's what Torah is. It's about giving up. It's about realizing and recognizing the importance of Torah to the extent that I'm willing to even sacrifice certain things personally or physically in order or materially is the best way to say that in order to accomplish spiritually. Yes, I saw a comment or a question. What's the >> What's the downside of saying a too many times? It's an excellent It's an excellent question. There are about about answering a how to say a best way to say you shouldn't you shouldn't you shouldn't elongate it. Meaning there are now you are correct. If somebody says a braha even throughout the day, you're allowed to answer a to those. But if if if we're talking about in the middle of a braha, the does ideally a person shouldn't say a just throw it out. Again, because a as we understand it traditionally stands for melan, right? So, so again, it's not Hashem's name. It doesn't have the same status as Hashem's name. But ideally, a person shouldn't just throw out a for for no reason. So in the situation where we know that it's a question whether or not this bra is keeps going or not. So for us to tell someone to say amen is not the most ideal. And that's why again is if you said amen it's not the same as saying God's name in vain. It's not the same level of seriousness. So if somebody did answer when they shouldn't have it's not going to have the same the same you know the same repercussions or it's not it's not as serious if a person were to do that. However ideally when we're talking about in an ideal sense how should a person should a person answer. So there the will say ideally in this case we'd rather you say the braha quietly because of the question of whether or not a needs to be said than for someone to say a uh unnecessarily >> and someone answers a mean to that. That's a good question. I believe it is acceptable to do so. I believe it is meaning that's what we do. Meaning if somebody says you should be to do this and someone answer yes I believe that's acceptable. But in a case where we know for sure there's a question whether or not this is the end of the braha or not. Uh that's where we're not necessarily going to going to tell you to say to Shiloh whether or not we're going to encourage you to say amen. >> I think I I I believe it's I mean it the min is definitely it is acceptable to do so. Whether or not there are some postk who say you shouldn't I don't know. It's a good question. I'm not sure. >> Yes. the you said that's the >> Well, I mean I mean if you're answering a for them it if you're answering a for them it's not a halfake for them. The thesake would be the the VV would be the halfake of anything because they're the one saying the braha for you to answer a good question. I don't think so though again meaning if you're if if they're saying the braha and you're answering a unless I mean I don't think that that's considered the halfake. >> Right. Right. I'm saying it but you're answering. So I don't know if your a is going to count as a sake for me. Right. Oh, >> okay. Okay. Um, I want to end with one with one with one final Oh, you know what? I see that we're over time. So, um, we we we've done what we did today. Well, uh, just to just to do a quick short review of what we saw today. We discussed a few different a few remaining topics regarding Botra. Number one, we discussed the placement of Botra, which was something that I think many of us were not familiar there's an actual where to should be said in the and there was a big debate as to whether there are two or three of we connected each of those potentially to the to the main question we've been dealing with was what is the nature of botra is the nature of fundamentally a mitzvah or is it avir and then we started to delve into the uh the text of the brah we started with the first we saw that the have the to say altora which comes from the riff and as well and we have the min to say and we saw different opinions as to what could mean and the power of as opposed to u and I hope you'll forgive me that we're that we're taking a long time with there's just so much to talk about that I find that I find uh really inspiring next week we will finish we'll go through the rest of the text there's a number of different things to really develop within the text of Torah and that's what we will finish with next week Have a great week everybody.