Pidyon Haben and Yetziat Mitzrayim By Rabbi Yitzchak Breitowitz

okay uh good morning everybody hope uh you're well and uh last week we obviously uh weren't here because of the election and everything else and uh beem uh hopefully things will be will be well um again our uh unit overall just sure the recorders are on uh we're going over the mitzvos in the that are connected to and we had looked at two of them uh one was chabas which interestingly enough is connected to the Exodus and the other is the Mitzvah of remembering it every single day uh but there are many many other mites as well and uh I'm going to talk about things that are today that are a little less obvious that is at the end of pares appears to Moshe on roses Nissan two weeks before the Exodus and gives him a bunch of Commandments PES the Corbin PES the eating of matah the eating of Mor the Mitzvah of recounting The Exodus in the future that's the mitvah the connection to there is very very obvious and as we get closer to PES we'll talk about those but then at the very end of the paraa there are two additional Mitzvah that are thrown in that are specifically connected to the Exodus but the connection is not so obvious one is the Mitzvah of redemption of the first firstborn pigon aen and the other is the Mitzvah of putting Onin so we'll talk about each of those but today we'll talk mainly about p uh this is at the end of Hashem says kades every firstborn male should be Sanctified now Hally this means two things Hally actually means three things a firstborn Jewish male has a certain level of kadus until that male is redeemed and this is of course the Mitzvah that we know as Pon haben now the question is so let's first analyze what does it mean kades every firstborn is Sanctified so presumably this is directly connected to makos that the plague of the firstborn all of the Egyptian firstborn were smitten God saved the Israelites firstborn uh because of the sign of the blood of the Corban PES and therefore they have been beneficiaries of a special divine mercy and being a beneficiary of Divine Mercy they have a certain Holiness they have a certain debt that they owe to God now the spe specific form that that Deb took is that initially the intention was they would be the kohanim they would be the priests in whatever service there would be and indeed they had that status until the sin of the golden calf where they lost that particular status but the kadus of the Bor is he who benefits from a special Divine Providence of Mercy owes God a special responsibility of all of us oh God infinite gratitude but if you've been a beneficiary of a there's a special debt of gratitude and that is the source of kadha well we'll come back to this but that's that's the basic yod of kades called now we know I'm sorry the first born always had until the Le that's that's a bit of that's a that's a bit of a question meaning some say uh they had the right but they didn't have the obligation that Theos imposed the obligation of of divine service not just the right to officiate but the obligation to officiate now we know in the Tyra generally there are two different privileges of a if you call it a privilege one is the obligation of pon and the other is the rule that a Bor gets a double inheritance in the property of the father so if the father has uh two sons and one of them is a Bor the Bor would get 2third of the yusha again we're not talking about whs and the like but putting that aside if you just follow the laws of yusha a b gets a double portion the Mish in makes the important point that the definition of a for Pon is a different definition than the definition of a Bor for the double portion of inheritance for pen the operative term is PIM the child who opens up the womb of the mother the one that is the first one who opened up the mother's womb meaning to say if a man had children from an earlier marriage and marries a woman who never had any children that Bor would be obligated in ponen even though that Bor would not get the double portion of inheritance by contrast the double portion of inheritance depends on it being the firstborn of the father so the other way around if a man married a woman who had children from a prior marriage but has a firstborn son from this woman that child does not need pigeon aen but that child would get a double portion of inheritance so so the basic idea is that the double portion of inheritance depends on a the Redemption of the firstborn depends on now is a very very strict rule uh because it actually means for example if a child is born through cesarian so it didn't go through the womb the vaginal Canal there's no pigeon a Ben cesarian there's no pigeon aen it also means that if a woman had God forbid miscarriages or abortions so it depends uh how how full how developed the embryo was but how Lally if the embryo or fetus depending how you call it already developed recognizable arms and limbs at of you know even in the middle of let's say the fourth month whatever it would be that would be enough to exempt the next child from a pigeon Aben Mas if the miscarriage is so early that there are not yet recognizable arms or legs that wouldn't count and therefore the next child would still be called a pet pet distinction apply also well I I'll get to I'll get to that it doesn't that's that's that's a question I I I'll address that question I'm you want say and the obvious other exception is the first born was a girl yes that that that is correct the the the Kad only applies uh if it's a boy and once again to make to make it obvious uh firstborn boy is not enough because if the boy was preceded by a girl there would be no pigeon a Ben so it must be firstborn child who is a who is a male and we'll talk about Co in Ley as well but I want to focus on on on one particular issue first let me share with you a very fascinating Chua of raaj about krias this involved a woman who was a balat cha and she had a past and uh in a past life she had an affair with somebody she was living with somebody and she got an abortion and the abortion was beyond the stage of 40 days or or whatever she became a balat Chua and she married an a who was learning in Yeshiva but she never discussed her past I guess that's that's a whole other issue but but she did not discuss her past uh but when she got pregnant so you know I don't I I don't want to stereotype spartum but spartum like to talk a lot about you we're gonna have a boy maybe ask can do too I don't know but her husband was so excited he was saying you knowem we're going to have a son and not only will there be a Brit Mila but there'll be a Pidgeon wonderful wonderful wonderful and she was really terrified of having a son uh because there would not be a pigeon a and how would she possibly explain it so she was praying that she should have a daughter you know B should be a daughter and everything would be would be fine and he kept on talking about his son son son son son uh so I don't know exactly how the shaj about all of this because again Hally the would be very clear if she were to give birth to a son that son would not have a pigeon a and if they did a pigeon a that would be aala a blessing in vain it would be totally sinful so Raj gave the following interesting Pak he says the first thing is if she can make up a story that her husband would buy uh she's allowed to lie about this to spare her the embarrassment of discussing an uncomfortable part of her past so she could say oh gee I didn't know that my father was a Coen or a Ley because is a b Coen or lady there's no pigeon up B we we'll talk about that uh of course that's not going to work so much if the father and mother show up but that's one thing or or if they were married long enough she could say she had some undetected miscarriage that she didn't tell her husband about you know if they were married a few years but here's the here's the kicker he said if Lisa there is no convincing story that she feels she would be able to convey she shouldn't say anything let them go ahead head and believe that this is a p let them go ahead and do the Pidgeon and even though they are making blessings in vain she has no obligation to correct or prevent that particular mistake and the basis of this very amazing ruling is that there actually is a principle of called kavos respect for human dignity to avoid humiliation now normally it's a little tricky normally the notion that cover Brios overrides only normally applies only to rabic prohibitions meaning you could transgress a rinic Prohibition for kav you cannot transgress a Torah love for human dignity thus the gamar tells us uh if you discover that you're wearing shess that you're wearing shess in the middle of the street even if that means you got to rip off your shirt you are obligated to rip off your shirt now there is an interesting mlo let's say I know you're wearing shotas you don't know I happen to know should I tell you because if I tell you you're going to have to rip off your shirt uh so that's a some say I don't have to tell you till you get into the house others say I got to tell you and then you got to rip off the shirt and if you don't rip off the shirt I rip off your shirt can they can they C so when it comes to a or a violation like shates cover brius unfortunately does not protect me but when it's a Rabin violation Rabbi laws can be violated so here says the following the eer of making a in vain so there is really a if that is a Torah violation you're not allowed to take God's name in vain but here's the question if I praise let's assume I make a shahak without drinking any water so yeah I I took God's name in vain in the sense that I don't have to make AA but I said it in the context of AA so be sure you understand there's a difference between simply saying God's name in vain and a in vain says there are that say a which after all is a praise of God leala may not be a Torah violation it may only be a Rabin violation that's the rambam actually says a br in vain is a Torah violation uh in fact the rambam says that is the meaning of the third Commandments do not Lo do not take the name of God in vain that includes but there areos and toos that say that as long as it's in the context of a it is only D therefore says we could rely on those opinions to permit the woman not to disclose her status to preserve her dignity and not be humiliated even though she would be causing a braa latala a very very amazing a decision uh again I'm not sure TimeWise and procedurally how it came to his attention I mean what exactly happened uh I guess I don't know she talked to her Rabbi in confidence and it was fled in confidence Etc there was a very short window to decide this issue but this was his only yeah so the Tas is not a problem I mean it would be like a play I mean listen we could have a play that has a pigeon a bed now again obviously she's fooling everybody but all right but that already R said in terms of sheer that sure we do allow for embarrassment which is interesting even though sheer is an Isa but that's a separate Paradigm that sheer is permitted to prevent humiliation uh even though that doesn't fit the normal rule of coveros and yeah woman she was not Jewish gave birth and then she did your that first yeah interesting question uh I'll repeat it uh a non-jewish woman gives birth to to a non-jewish person she then converts marries a Jew and has a child uh from the has a firstborn male from the Jew so the argument goes well gee since when a person converts they are like a newly created entity she's a new person so we would ignore the child that was born as a non-jew and we would treat the child born after the gor as a firstborn who would need pigeon uh you know it's a good argument but Hally it's absolutely not not valid because because is understood in a very physical sense meaning even if spiritually this is her first child but it didn't open up her physical body the womb was opened by the earlier one so there is say again dou well well well that depends on the father so for sure there would be a double portion yeah that's true but that would that would even be true if she had children as a Jewish woman from another guy right so that wouldn't change now um if you're asking me maybe you're asking me let's say she and her husband converted so let's assume her first child was from her husband but preor uh would the second boy from the husband post gor be a Bor for for for P that might be the case that indeed might be the case yeah as a rabbi and a lawyer I'm sure you should suggest that people who do have a b should have a h will if they want to avoid giving a double portion to one at the expense of the anger of the other children yeah yeah so again I I I don't want to talk about this topic today I'm happy to give another lecture on it but yeah there there are halic ways meaning there are a lot of aspects of yusha that sometimes uh may not work out so well in the family Dynamic uh the most famous one is the rule that boys get and girls don't and then you have another rule that a Bor gets a double portion and the non Bor does not get a double portion and very often in the interest of family Harmony and Shalom uh and to protect your children you'll want to create a greater scheme of equality where boys girls uh share equally and the Bor is the same as everybody else so the interesting question is number one well are you allowed to do that I mean are you allowed to just bring in your egalitarian ideas if the Torah gives us a scheme of inheritance uh the short answer is you are allowed to do that but you have to follow it in certain halakic ways meaning meaning if you simply write a will that says All My Children share equally well listen if if you let me explain a very simple thing if you know your kids and you know that your kids are happy to share then you can simply say listen I want everything to be divided equally and you don't have to worry about it a will in other words from the standpoint of is simply a statement of telling my kids what I would like but if one of the sons does not want their sister to inherit they have the right to go to B and they have the right to say she cannot hold on to that jusha she is a thief which means because of this because since you never know the unpredictability of money and Estates and Yates orus because of this uh it is advised that if you want to create an equality you do so in a way that creates H validity not simply stating again as I say if you know your kids you don't need to do all of this you can just say hey I know my son gets everything and my daughter gets nothing but I want it to be equal got it and you know a lot of times that's going to work out a lot of time it is going to work out but it doesn't obligate them Kim doesn't apply to yusha and everything else so there areic ways of creating Wills uh there are attorneys who specialize in this field um T many of you might know is actually a person who does a lot of this work all of the time she speaks in the U about it and you know I'll be happy to even give a share about it let me just point out though that even if you create a Hally valid will that creates equality and treats the B like everybody else it is brought down that there should be a portion of your estate even if it's very small that follows the S yusha of the Torah so it's brought down that the just give you an example that many have a Min that The KES of the home should be based on the Seder yusha so even if my bank accounts and my pensions and whatever property uh a person has you want to make it equal through a will but you take or you take jewelry or you take something it could really be anything and you say the following items should be divided in accordance with the laws of inheritance of the Torah including the double portion of the B and the like so again you to a rabbi talk to Tera you can talk to me as well and maybe we'll give a share about that but but you are correct but but for now I I'm just interested in going over the uh the the difference between the p and the pigon pigon so now reaber asks a very very simple question a was nadesh because they were saved in MIT they were saved in now every type of was vulnerable to whether it was the firstborn of the mother or the firstborn of the father if a woman had children but this was the firstborn of the father that Bor would die too so why is piden only for a b from the mother and not a from the father if Mak applied both to the father and to the mother for example the fast of the firstborn on era of PES both both types of firstborn fast so why is pige only and not this is a question reaber great reaber asks and in time honored Jewish fashion he answers the question by asking another question right this is how we always ask question with the question and that is there's a famous contradiction in par in one says you shall when you Slaughter the carbon PES put the blood on your doorposts so that the power of Destruction that's the angel of death the Mal should know not to enter your house now that implies that Mak was affected by the Mal by the Mas and you need the blood so the Mas will know not to go in but we have another P where hasem says we mentioned in the I will pass through and as the an I will do it not a Mal another type of Angel so what was it was Mak affected through KES himself or was Mak affected through an angel right this it's a sta now some answer the STA this way the actual makos was affected by God nevertheless a certain number of natural deaths were to occur that night as well meaning some people who died it may have been their time to die either they were not even firstborn or even if they were firstborn it happened to be that you know their death corresponds with Mak but it's not because of Mak so when it says that the of the carbon PES and the blood on the doorpost will prevent the Mal from entering it doesn't mean it does not mean it'll prevent the Mal from killing the firstborn that was God's portfolio but it means there won't even be natural deaths meaning no Jewish person died the night of yat right that night so that's one way of answering it that did is referring to Natural death but reer wants to give a different answer he wants to say that we split up Mak into two those who were the first born of the mother were killed by the Mal and those who were the firstborn of the father had to be killed by God himself why is that so because the EMS is uh it's a well-known idea you know we know that Judaism is matrilineal right we go according to the mother well one of the reasons is not the only reason is because in a promiscuous culture it's really impossible to know always before DNA at least who is the father a woman could be with many many men whether she's married or not and as a result how do I know who the father is but a of a mother you know we can know because we could see if we examine the woman that you know she hadn't had children before or whatever it is so M like this there is actually a medish that says that the reason why God had to kill the firstborn is that only God could determine who was a firstborn of the father because the father could have had many children even an angel wouldn't be able to figure out in egpt because Egypt was so promiscuous even angels couldn't figure out who is the firstborn of the father so Hashem had to say I'll handle that firstborn of the mother okay the Angels could figure that out so Reis Mas he answers the contradiction that when it says the that was through a that's the B may aim when it says it came from Hashem it's may have so now reer says the following the idea that a is Holy because they're saved implies that they were vulnerable I mean you understand that that that mean the fact that abor is Holy because he was saved meaning he could have died and why is that so because Rashi says when hasem gives R to the angel of death the angel of death can get everybody but the angel of death was only given permission over the so it was only the May of Isel that was vulnerable the May was out outside of his jurisdiction that was God's portfolio therefore the B may of the Jewish people was were never vulnerable if they were never vulnerable they were not Sanctified so it's is a very ingenious answer why piden is only May aim and not may now a few things though uh it is true that um the there are some complications we know that a the child of a Coen or a Ley does not have pigeon a Ben so if the father is a Coen or a Ley no pigeon a Ben but somewhat unusually if the mother is a boss Coen or a boss Ley so if if a Israel marries a BOS coin or a BOS leavy there is no pigeon a Ben but here we have a very very fascinating H distinction between a BOS Co and aasy the common denominator is by the way don't get confused some people think I mean it's just a mistake but some people erroneously think that the daughter of a Bas Ley her in other words if if her mother words they think if a woman's mother was a BAS leavy there's no pigeon a b that's not true in other words uh it is the daughter of a man who is a Coen or Ley that is exempt from pige aen or the wife of a Coen or a Ley we know that if a bus I'm sorry if a if a woman any Jewish woman had relations with a non-jew she is not allowed to marry a Coen actually I'm going to digress for a moment to explain something again we get this question all the time in in the world of balet CHA Etc there's all sorts of issues about who can marry a Coen who cannot marry a Coen and it's very important to to underscore that a uh a woman who is not a virgin is allowed to marry a Cohen generally speaking the requirement that a woman be a virgin is only cohain to marry a Coen God which we don't have today the only thing is the Torah prohibits say Coen from marrying a divorced woman a woman who got a get that's a grusa and there are other things as well but one of the people a Coen cannot marry is um what is called a Zona which means a promiscuous woman but Hally Zona does not mean prostitute it refers to a woman that had intercourse with a non-jew so if a woman had intercourse with a non-jew she cannot marry a calling now rosha Feinstein wrote many years ago that uh if a Coen does not know her particular status he is permitted to assume that heras status quo is kosher uh some people question whether that would change in light of recent decades and have gotten less moral but generally speaking at least in the United States the standard Pak of most ranim uh is uh what you don't know doesn't hurt and there's not even a necessarily to investigate you can go according toas nevertheless I do have to say if the woman herself knows that she was with a non-jew the woman herself is not allow if she's religious she is not allowed to marry a Cohen because she yes he doesn't have to ask questions yeah granted I understand that but if she knows it's trfe so to speak okay I don't want to get into that but generally speaking though the implication of having relations with a with a non-jew only impacts on marrying a cooh and yet there are some secondary implications and that is if a boss Cohan had relations with a non-jew she loses her status as a Bas she doesn't have the whole Holiness of a Bas Coen and that actually means therefore if a Bas Coen had relations with a non-jew but no no children she then marries a Jewish man she's obligated the child is obligated in Pon haben because the same way that the relation to the non-jew would desecrator from marrying a Coen if she is a Bas Coen it takes away the kadu ofun so there would be a in P now interestingly enough if a Bas slavy had relations with a non-jew she would still retain her status as bavy and there would be no obligation of there would not be an obligation of pidun aen you see so this is very very interesting where the uh the relationship with the non-jew will take away will be m p forain and not foras so here let me raise the interesting analytical question that you could you could think about every cohain is also a leing a cohain is a leing within the tribe of Levan a smaller group from Aon right uh mosha and Aon were brothers Moshe was a Ley right so in Korah right Aon well two brothers don't get called up one after the other anyway but okay that's a later thing but you know mosha would get I'm sorry Aon would get Co mosha would get Ley so and in fact Hally I can prove to you that this is the case the Tyra says that in the time when we used to give Maser uh to Kohan and that you know you give truma 2% you give to a Ka and 10% of your crop that grows in Israel you give to a Ley that's called Mason now at the time of the second temple very few levim showed up most of them stayed in Babylonia so Ezra made a canas Ezra said from now on we're going to punish the levim mlus is a permanent temporary that instead of giving your m to a ladyy you give your master to a Cohen how could that be uh you're supposed to give Master to a Ley and the explanation is because every coing is a Ley so therefore if Ezra says don't give it to a Ley Ley give it to a Coen Ley that's okay okay that's the con okay so here's my question if you're telling me that a BOS Coen loses her status as BOS Coen because of intercourse with a guy but a b slavy does not lose her status as a b slavy because of V to a then why don't you simply say that the Bas Coen that had relations with a non-jew loses her status of baso but she still remains a basley and if she remains a bavy that should exempt the child in pig you see just difficult why are you knocking her down to zero you're basically she's a she loses that kadha but if a bavy doesn't lose the Holiness then why should she lose the Holiness of bavy that that is actually I think it's a very good question again the the Theon discuss it but don't confuse this with the bottom line the bottom line is indeed as the paskins that a basen who had relations with say go the child is obligated no the child from the Jew is obligated in Pigeon the bavy that had a child that was with a guy and has a child remains a bavy and therefore the child is exempt from pin yeah yeah well um what if um okay whatever whatever it comes to yeah yeah isn't that embarrassing a person Foria King's daughter has a pigeon have and everybody knows why yeah yeah okay well you're right yeah this is this this is kind this is okay I got you so this is the opposite of a rage's problem rage's problem was that not doing the pigeon a Ben would be embarrassing you're raising the issue doing the pigeon a Ben is embarrassing yeah the so the short answer would be you know the short answer would be assuming her husband knows about it uh would be you do just do it privately that's all in other words do it privately meaning don't uh don't invite your parents don't tell anybody there was a pigeon a Ben a pigeon a Ben is allowed to be a private event uh you know it's customary we like to make a suit Etc but you do not need a Minion for Pigeon a Ben in fact you don't even need the baby in Pigeon a Ben um it's a little strange you know it's a little strange I mean I I I'm unfortunately I'm involved with a um a young couple uh that got divorced very very soon after the marriage uh uh she was already pregnant uh and uh they got divorced before the B before the child was born and uh because the relationship is not so great Etc uh the Bon like did not allow him to be there for the festivities of pigeon Aben but he has the MIT he has to come up with the money so to speak it's not a lot of money he has so he did the pigeon a by himself with the Coen and he was not without the baby even present again that's a very sad thing but Hally that that is the case uh of course let me just point out the of p is a very very strange if you've done it or seen it or heard it or read it in which the Coen gives the Father the choice what do you want more do you want your son or do you want to hold on to the five sellas we'll talk about the amount of money that is and the father is supposed to say hopefully he will say uh I want to hold on to my son here is the five five and people ask the question what what type of business is this I mean uh you're implying the guy has a choice so someone to say there's a there's an indirect message here meaning yeah the of course does not reflect the reality in fact you don't even have the choice even if you say uh I'd rather keep the money you're in but it's kind of a reference to the person it's a muser what is more important in your life raising your child or the money that you make and the truth of the matter is when we start asking ourselves those questions sometimes it's a little uncomfortable because I mean obviously every every parent cares more about their child than the money but in terms of the allocation of time and energy it's not so P how much time how much energy do we put into making a living neglecting what do they tell the story they tell the story about a father uh this is not a Jewish story necessarily but um he's a big lawyer and he's always meeting with clients always negotiating when he comes home he's on the phone so uh his son asked him one day you know Dad you know Dad you're always so busy he says um how much do you charge per hour so she said well I charge you know $250 per hour so like two months later the kid calls him up he says you know Dad I've been saving allowance money and I have $250 I'd like to buy I'd like to buy an hour of your time he says he says I'll pay you for the hour so so the question what do you want more your money or your it's the famous thing about um Jack Benny you know who actually was a generous person but uh his Persona was he was very very stingy so uh when he used to be on the when he used to be in the radio before television so he's mugged in Central Park you know your money or your life and on radio there was a 30C pause 30C pause which is huge in radio It's amazing And he says I'm thinking about it I'm thinking about it but the truth is say such a thing you you should love with all of your heart with all of your life with all of your might which is interpreted all of your money and Rashi raises the question if you have to give up your life for Hashem at least in some cases then it's obvious you give up your money K and Rashi says exactly as Jack Benny said maybe he remembered it from there are people whose money is more valuable than their lives and if that sounds know ridiculous or impossible the truth is no it's not because in terms of the energy in terms of everything you know people drive themselves to to death early death because well did you want to say something yeah um I don't know if this is pertinent to right now you want to go into this but I'm just curious if a cohain uh who was married and then he has an affair and he ends up marrying her later a non a Jewish woman uh does does he was already in an affair with her uh when does he have to give up his Cohan ship in the in the community she she was she was non-jewish or she was Jewish she was Jewish um but she's divorced oh oh oh oh she's divorced I'm sorry she had a GU oh I see yeah well okay here's the interesting thing it's a little bit of an interesting Paradox if a Coen marries a divorced woman and has a child no no no no I understand the child is not a Coen he's called a kalal he's desecrated but the Coen himself who committed the sin this is an odity in the Coen who committed the sin of marrying a divorced woman remains a Coen but he's not allowed to have the honors of a Coen until he separates from the woman he's he's with so wait wait which woman in other words well I only heard you mentioned one woman yeah I'm sorry he was married to a Jewish woman yes and did the Cohan and then yeah he had an affair and then he ended up marrying that Affair after he divorced uh his original wife oh in other words he committed he committed adultery while he was still married yes then he divorced his wife and then he married the woman which by the way he's not allowed to do in other words number one he's not allowed to commit adultery that's for sure but number two Let me just remind people that if he committed adultery even if he then divorces his wife he is actually not allow to marry the woman that he committed adultery with so there's really two different AAS here adultery is a more severe AA but there's also the is of s of marrying woman adultery so I mean Hally uh basically he would not be given the honors of the Coen from the time he had the affair but but it's not that he loses the kahun it's like it's like it's in suspension uh he is suspended from Kahuna until he separates from the so he has to tell the congregation I'm not going to well uh here's the thing I mean a guy a guy a guy who is transgressing The Ten Commandments is probably not going to care about this Rabin this is a Rabin law that we don't give honors to a cooh he probably doesn't care about that stop being a CO well well he's suspended from being a Cohen I mean he he is a Cohen actually but he's suspended yeah wait if he has a child with this woman I'm sorry he has a son with this woman well first oh one second one one uh one second uh if he has a son with a woman that he's committing adultery with the child is a momser it's a much more serious problem than not being a CO if he has a child no there is no momer is Pigeon a Ben too yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah it could be a mom but there're still pigeon a Ben yeah yeah he lose also everything a ladyy also I mean generally speaking Bey if B but does he still have a have a that is he still a Ley in other words yeah um a which is a child born from a prohibited Co Coen marriage um is not a Coen that's for sure the question is we go back to our question does does he still have the Holiness of um based on the pigeoning would appear not meaning once he's goes loses Goa he loses Leva automatically yeah she was forced against her will to with a go you mean like raped by yeah yeah so again this is a hard situation L say yes uh the the the rule that the relationships disqualify a woman from Kahuna apply whether they're voluntary or involuntary uh that's what the gar always says uh God forbid it it should never happen um if a wife of a Cohan is raped against her will uh she Hally might not stay with her husband but but but there's a huge loophole there so please uh do not P it on your own on this and that is the evidentiary rules for establishing that fact can be very very strict and that's actually works to a marriage's benefit meaning even if a woman were to declare that she were raped and there's a police report Hally that would not be enough evidence and therefore de facto most of the time women can do stay married to their husbands but at least theoretically there is the the possibility of right so this is where halakic Rules of Evidence are extremely important like this is across the board this is something that a has to be very very very sensitive to I mean I'll give you a an amazing example of this uh nothing to do with Kahuna but it's such an interesting story and once again maybe it dub tales with Raj yosef's concern for human dignity and not humiliating somebody uh there was a boy uh who had lost his mother a few years before and uh before she died uh she gave him a locket like something to wear uh and and said please open this on the day of your marriage under the okay so he figured it would be a note a message something you know a hair some some way of remembering so mosha finds him this mad ction this is such a bizarre story I I'm smiling but I shouldn't smile because it really was a very sad story so he's under the and right before the great moment of you know giving the ring and marrying his partner in life he opens the locket to have a little remembrance of his mom and the has a note that says uh your father is not your father I had an affair uh and you are you are really born from another man which of course would make him a momser we can't get married now why mom would say open under the that that's beyond that's beyond me I mean this could have been discussed at an earlier point but whatever so so the the guy so the kid opens up the locket he looks at the thing and he turns white and he starts shaking so rosha find is standing there R says what's wrong what's wrong so wordless wordlessly he hands Moshe the note ra Moshe reads the note he rips it in two and puts it into the in his pocket and say let's just continue with the because ra says you know even the mother herself cannot a mother cannot say you're born from an affair haa assumes in the absence of proof that a married couple have their children from each other and the fact that she says she had an affair is not does not establish anything so mosha went ahead and was mad kadan so the Rules of Evidence are very important yeah I could tell you a child born from adultery is a mser that's very true but how do you prove that in fact Rebel Yash took the position that even a DNA test let's assume there's a DNA test that this kid is not from his uh father from we thought it was his father is from somebody else a DNA test rash said that's not not not not not everybody agrees with him but Ru took the position a DNA test does not establish and that is why the raban nut actually uh does not allow DNA testing because it's going to CL cloudy the waters meaning it's going to make things very very murky it's going to cast dispersions which are not Hally Justified Hally Justified and therefore better not even to do it and a husband should assume that this child is my is my child and even if the child doesn't look like him and even if it looks like Arnold Schwarzenegger whatever whatever whatever whatever it would be right it was actually actual case I'm referring to but even if it looks like that but nevertheless H says there are certain rules of evidence that you have to go with yeah give a reason why yes uh so it's interesting you know he said that um it is a test as a test it is um it is fallible it does not have the status now now now I know I know that whenever here's something interesting I know when people hear this they immediately oh come on you know it's one in a billion thing it's so but you know I read uh last time I was on a flight which was a long time ago there was an article in uh the Atlantic that actually said that although when the test is done correctly it is accurate to an astounding degree but the amount of mistakes that are made in in the testing are very very high and they say that in some cases as much as 30% of the results might be incorrect In other words um so the de facto accuracy could be knocked down now again obviously depends on the lab for sure uh but there have been cases that's why there is a you know a project in the United States called the Innocence Project which goes through people who were convicted in death row and uh it actually manages to clear a lot of them uh and some of it some of it is by doing genetic testing but some of it is by correcting either errors or intentional distortions in genetic testing that took place because a lot a lot of the laboratory technicians are you know not you know I'm not casting his verions on everybody but a lot of them are not trained very well uh it's a low it's a low paying job in some situations and therefore they make uh they make mistakes they make mistakes yeah so would that also mean that like when the hospital makes a mistake implant wrong embryo the DNA T not the embo that would stand uh well again the logic of Rebel yashiv would say that you still assume this is your child this is the the presumption now people do argue with this again I don't want to I'm not I don't want to I mean rash was a great great great POS but I don't want to suggest was the only word on this uh meaning there are pokim who indeed consider DNA evidence to be equivalent or better than Witnesses ADM and therefore they would allow DNA for all of these purposes so this is a very live mlus in fact it's relevant an aunus actually a World Trade Center when you have uh dead bodies pieces of dead bodies and you don't necessarily have a way of visual identification so there are different things there's fingerprints there's uh dental records DNA and all of these are going to be questions as to what Hal would accept as evidence of death which is very very important because that determines whether a woman or could remarry or or the like soash was pretty strict he was strict and leaning you see how this works meaning by having this no DNA policy so on one hand that may that may make life tough for not but it makes life easier for mser problems right so you can't look at it as you know am I being Mel or I being mmir because it'll have implications in both uh in both directions so this is the interesting distinction between a Bas Coen and a Bas Ley in the laws of piden B coin is has a kid that requires a pigon event can her father do the pigon yeah that's a very good uh that's a very uh good point uh yeah if if we assume that the Bas Coen because of her relations with a the kid needs a pigeon aen can she use her father as the co to give the Redemption money to why not why not no no reason why not uh there's no it's not like witnesses that you can't use relatives you can use relatives in uh in pidun haben uh just one final little fact uh the Torah is K that the amount of piden is five sellas which was again a denomination at one point and five c a c is four Zim so five sellas is 20im let me just remind you that the quantity of a casua is 200 Z so one thing to remember in terms of correlation and that is a sua is 10 times the amount of piden okay just a correlation to be aware of now what exactly is this so keep in mind the following idea denominations in the Torah although they're described as currency are not really currency they are based on Silver weight and therefore the exact amount that you have to give is not fixed but it fluctuates with the market value of silver the Kaz Nish who's the strictest of everybody and in in quantities calculates that the Shor of the five sellas of pigeon aen is 96 gram of pure silver now you don't have to give it a silver you can give it as money not paper money you can give it as coins you can give it as you know you can give a computer you can give a car for Pigeon event that's shove aess anything worth money is like money but you have to give something that is worth see how it is worth 96 grams of silver on the day that you're doing the pigeon event that's how you compute it so if you would ask me so it's not five silver dollars love daa uh number one well they don't make I don't think they do they still make silver dollars in the US I don't know if they do uh but when they used to make silver dollars uh some of them were adulterated with copper Etc so you have to be sure that there's 96 grams of silver and that's why here in arell they they mint special medallions that are called you know whatever pigeon aen coins they're not they're not money you can't go into a Maka and buy anything with it but by definition they contain the requisite silver I don't remember how much they put in I don't think they follow the K very I mean the other calculations are less but this is an important Point pigeon aen is not based on a fixed amount of money it's very important it is based on the value of a fixed weight of silver so when silver is high then the amount you have to give for Pigeon a Ben is going to be higher when silver is low the amount you give for Pigeon Ben is going to be less by the way the kba is exactly the same way as I mentioned the CBA is 10 times pigeon once again that correlates with silver so if you if you were to ask me like how much money is AA worth it could be anywhere from 5,000 to 50,000 because silver over the decades has actually fluctuated quite a lot so it all depends on uh the silver price okay have a good week and we'll continue next week