Partnership Minyanim & Women and Torah Reading | Rabbi Anthony Manning | January 7th 2026

Bakita, >> thank you for coming. I hope you're enjoying the beautiful weather. Please God, the rain will return, but for now it's warm and sunny. I'd like to thank our sponsors. We have uh a number of sponsorships. The Wednesday morning program, the midrash program here in dedicated for this year, Daniel bid a strauss ben Mosha and Risel Ysef Mayor Marcus by the parents of the parents of Judah Marcus. Thank you for that sponsorship. Uh my share for the rest of this academic year is also sponsored Brandit and Zelik Ben. We have one additional sponsorship today that the Shir is sponsored in memory of Nava Bas Yeshua Israel. Uh we thank all of those sponsors very grateful and it makes a big difference. So I am today and for the next two weeks uh repaying a fulfilling a promise uh that I was asked to speak about partnership minyanim and women's Torah readings which is a hot topic um and also a very complicated one. In fact uh I've been I I I realized this is this is new material. I've realized as I've been looking quickly at it that there is an enormous amount of analysis going on here and I'm going to try to find a path through that which does not get us caught in all the weeds. Uh I'd like to do three sessions on it this week, next week and the week after please God. And we'll cover different angles on this through uh through those three weeks and then I'm going to be away for 3 weeks. Uh so here for 3 weeks please God away for 3 weeks. You'll have obviously other speakers but then we'll be back and it'll be nearly porium and we'll move on to to to to other things. The topic of women's Torah readings and partnership minyam is a is a very good example of a hakic and hashkafic issue all intertwined and therefore it works very well with our general topic and over the last 25 years there's been a very robust discussion in the orthodox world about [snorts] women's uh involvement in Torah reading and being called up to the Torah uh and the developments of something that's become known as a partnership minion. Uh a partnership minion has to be uh uh uh distinguished from an egalitarian minion although sometimes people use the words fairly uh interchangeably but I don't think they are the same thing. Usually a partnership minion uh purports to stick to a hakic framework and I brought you in number one that Jofa the Jewish Orthodox feminist alliance has defined a partnership million and they're really the group that's that's most behind promoting them. They changed their definition recently actually and the definition on their website now is a prayer group committed to maintaining this is little note one maintaining halakic standards and practices while including women in ritual leadership roles to the fullest extent possible within the boundaries of Jewish law. And it says one of the things that they do or they need to do to be a partnership minion is to have a at least 10 men. So you're going to have a a minion of 10 men, a mafita dividing the women and the men and the use of a traditional liturgy. So what normally happens in a partnership minion is you have a uh and there are in Jerusalem and around America there are not a not a large number but a significant number. You have a mita, you have men and you have women. You have a bimma usually somehow divided between the in the middle of the and you have women being called up for aliot. Exactly how those aliot are structured, we'll see next week. Um and you also have women leading the service for things like kabalat shabbats, maybe zimra, the beginning of the service, maybe the prayers for the state of Israel, whatever it is. um but not leading the service in uh in parts of the service which require which are classified as a da kadusha uh so not for khazar sashhats and not for um the brahas of krishma etc although we'll see that that's not necessarily always stuck to um but the the old uh the old definition that Jofa had of a partnership minion was more uh specific and I brought it to you at the end of the the the footnote I'm not going to read it out now and I I don't know for sure but I wonder whether they changed their definition because partnership in Yan changed a little bit over the last few years and we'll talk um some a little bit more about that soon. So we in this year we're going to talk about um hakic structures of Torah reading women's obligations, hakic arguments for and against women reading from the Torah receiving alias. Um the the sort of more meta halakic discussion, how do we how do we weigh the sources against each other? And then the hashgraphic question, how how we how these things change in society, which changes are acceptable, not acceptable, who decides how they decide, etc. Oh, by the way, an egalitarian minion, I think, usually does does not require a minion. They may count women to a minion. They often don't have a makita. So, that we're not talking about that. We're talking about something which is known as a partnership minion. Now, there are hundreds of sources and we're going to see quite a lot of them, probably thousands of sources, but the most important one is number one, and I'm going to give it to you right now and then we're going to see it more next week. But we need a lot of structure and introduction this week to understand what's going on with Torah reading generally so that we can unpack this source properly. This is a a bryer in in the Gmoran migill which is broad and says the following. Number one Torama Hakal olin leminan Shiva everybody counts towards the number of seven. Seven what? Seven aliot that we have on Shabbat in Shaw. We can add extras but we have to have seven. This word olin in the mish in the Mishna and and Gomorrah context doesn't mean olim as in they the people who are oled to the Torah. It means it counts towards all all people count towards the seven that we need on Shabbat. Ailan even a child aua even a woman meaning in principle women and children count towards the seven aliot aim. But the rabbi said, "A woman should not be reading the Torah because of honor for the congregation, for their community." Now, there are a lot going on >> reading. It says reading >> and you're asking it. Extremely good question because it used to be back in the old days and we'll deal with this next week that the person who you called up was the person who read and the Yemenes still do this. And if you have the uh if you're a man called up in a Yemenite shaw, uh you have to be prepared for them to just point to the Torah and they'll say, "All over to you, mate." Well, they probably won't say mate, but whatever. Um and and uh if you're unable like I would be unable to read it competently u that you know so people can read they will just sort of look at you as if like you know well who who do you think you are and call over some 9-year-old kid and say okay you read it like that and you feel like a little inadequate. Um [snorts] but it used to be that whoever read whoever was called up red. Now we have separated these two roles. So we're going to have to look next week at well what's who's doing what in this little partnership of the and the reader meaning is the reader reading for the person who came up for the aliyah or is the person who came up for the aliyah making the braus for the person reading and it's not the same and we'll have to work out these combinations well if the reader is a woman and the is a man or if the reader is a man and the ola is a woman or if the reader is a woman and the Olay is a different woman. We'll have to work work that through. So, you're asking a good question. What's that? >> What about the sibore? >> Oh, what about the sibore? What does kavad sib mean? And we're going to have to answer a number of questions. I'm going to give you in a minute. The six basic arguments which are made um in support of partnership in yanim. But yes, we're going to have to answer that. What does it mean? But the rabbis said a woman shouldn't read. Does that mean it's prohibited? There's a word for prohibited. It's assur. Do they mean assur? Do they mean not recommended? Do they mean passenished? What what what what do they mean? We're going to have to look at that properly properly and see how that works. So I brought you just before we turn over the page. This has been a discussion for the last 25 years. And I've brought you at the bottom of the page in footnote 4 11 sources written between or 11 articles I should say written between 2001 and around 2017. The discussion on this has gone a bit quiet over the last 10 years. I I I should I I imagine because people have just moved on to talk about other things but the main action has was between 2001 2017. Um and the main protagonists here uh are a group of rabbis who argued initially in favor of it and maintain that argument. They are um Rabbi Mendel Shapiro who I who I have not met who wrote perhaps the the article kicking this off about 25 years ago. Um Rabbi Dr. Daniel Spurerber who I have met who is still um active uh in different community work [snorts] um uh then various other Rabonim who are more involved in sort of focusing on women's involvement in the community but not to this degree like Rabbi Schlommo Riskin and Rabbi Yehuda Henin got very involved in this debate and as we'll see they opposed and still as far as far as I can see in terms of Rabbi Riskin oppose partnership in Yalin but definitely got involved in the debate and then more recently um Rabbi Katz Rabi Katz from from YCT Shiv Torah has written quite extensively about it and then there was the backlash the people in tradition journal that wrote very large and detailed articles arguing that this does not work um the most important of those articles is a mammoth monster of an article which I've been reading and rereading and rereading which is 90,000 words long. This is a This is a 117page article in Tradition Magazine. It's basically as long as a doctorate thesis. Uh and it goes through every possible source you could even imagine might be there on this issue. So, if you really want to get into it, then I'd advise you to read that and the responses to that and the responses to the responses, etc., etc. So, this really is, I think, one of the most complicated issues I've ever dealt with in this year. Um, even though you wouldn't think it, it's just laning. I mean, what could be complicated about it? But it it it is. So, let's go over to page two. The six arguments made that um promote calling up women for alias. And we're not here talking about women's only readings because a woman's only reading is a little bit different to this because there are no men there and the there are just women there and it's not creassatra in the kind of formal sense. There's no minion, but we'll talk about women's only readings here. We're talking about a minion where there are 10 men and there is formal careers of Torah and they want to call up women. So the six arguments are basically as follows. But top of page two number one that the original hakic position based on this bryer it sounds like was that women did receive alias ol everybody counts even a woman even a child but then this was later reversed because of covered cib. Therefore, they argue that there isn't a permissive opinion, the original opinion that people started with, but then they reversed it. So, they're just going back to what was the original opinion, which by the way doesn't necessarily make it okay. You can't just go picking original opinions that that have been changed and passed in a different way. But they want to argue that. And we'll see that there's no basis or real evidence for a historical reality where they were calling up women and then they stopped calling up women. It sounds much more like oh we get we'll get there. It's a you're always one step ahead of me. Okay. The second argument is that um the reversal of that we don't call up a woman these days was was never a a prohibition. It was more of a recommendation. And then we're not going to get into all this, but then you'll look at all the other places in the in the Gomorrah where it says and you'll see which ones are prohibitions, which ones are recommended. Usually it's a prohibition. The third argument is that the original rationale for being restrictive is kavu. And this reflects they argue a form of social reality where women it was it was a it was a a disgrace for the community that you call up a woman. And we'll talk about why that might have been the case. But today, of course, that should fall away because the change in social realities is such that it's no longer a uh an insult or an offense to the Tibbor to call up a woman. That's uh the third argument. The fourth argument is that today we use a balor so it makes the problem better and we might actually end up arguing actually makes it worse. Um the fifth argument is that even if covered cib is still relevant. Even if you want to argue that there is some kind of a an offensive nature to this and will or an inappropriate nature surely that can be on its cover this group of people can sit around and say well yes there are people who are particular about this but we're very egalitarian we think the women should be called up and we don't have a problem we're we forgive our covert can they do that and the last point which was made by Rabbi Spurb and we'll again deal with this more next week is he wanted to he wants to argue that there is a counterbalancing principle of cavodriots of kavrius that we don't put individuals in embarrassing situations and we dealt with this a little bit in this year and we'll see in the part three remind ourselves what they are and therefore it's embarrassing and offensive to women to tell them they cannot have aliod and therefore even if there is a cavod sib angle surely this is outweighed by the cavod the individual cavrius that these women are insulted that they can't have a leas and therefore that will trump if you like the covered ci now these arguments are put forward uh they have been uh comprehensively rejected by all postkin pretty much uh and it's it's really really a consensus on this issue in the centrist modern orthodox and religious scientist world now it goes without saying of course in the kared world as well I didn't even bring that down because you wouldn't expect people to support that although on other issues it's not always this clear I mean on the issue of going up to Harabayat for example, you'd be surprised who does go up to Harabay and and sometimes you you you know think gosh I would never have expected but he on this issue is pretty much down the line. Um, even those, like I said, Rabbi Henin, Rabbi Riskin, who really do whatever they can to try and involve women in communal life and the original women's Torah reading just for women alone was originated and initiated in Inca Square in the late 1960s where Rabbi Riskey said, you know, the women on Simka's Torah should have a Torah and they should read for themselves and they should dance with the Torah. So, Rabbi Riskin is definitely, if you know him, I know him personally, someone who wants to to to try to involve and and empower women as much as possible, but he also opposed the partnership minion issue. And we're going to have to analyze this. Um, do the arguments hold true? Uh, do they stand up to scrutiny? And even if you think that they do, is it legitimate to change the established practice uh of uh of minra? And we'll see how that works. Now one point just before we uh get into some initial comments um the it is important to realize that uh the partnership minion reality when you ask them who are you relying on they will say we're relying on Rabbi Sperber and Rabbi Shapiro and again I don't know Rabbi Shapiro I'm sure he's a great time at Rabbi Spurber for sure is a great time at Khim there's no question about that the man is a very uh major thinker in these and they'll say we're relying on Rabbi Spurber. So we'll see is that legitimate? Can you make this kind of a major change and rely on a rabbi that even if he's a kam in the community? But it must be said that the in fact what happens on the ground goes actually much further than this. And that's part of the problem maybe a very big part of the problem because the partnership minion reality does not have a rabbi almost built in is that you don't have a rabbi. I brought you here in source number little footnote 9. Sorry, just look for footnote nine for let's look at eight for a second. [gasps] If you go on the JOE website, the official halic guide for partnership in Yanim is a 2008 paper written by two people, Elitsur and Mikl Bar Asher Seagull. I don't know them, but they are professors in universities uh in um in Israel, but they're not hakic experts and they write things in this guide which are uh clearly contrary to mainstream sack. You can read it for yourself and sometimes quote sources that don't actually support their conclusions. And again, you can I brought you the the the uh the link to it. You can read it for yourself. But more importantly, I brought you a little quote here from Shir Khadasha. I've never been to Shir Khadasha. It's an established sh minion uh in the neighborhood here. I think it's it's around here somewhere. No, it's >> right. Right. Emrafine. So they put there um and I quoted on number nine, we also believe in a decentralized consensus form of leadership. We have no rabbi but instead are lead by led by a team of eight gab uh who work with the vat kalaka and a large group of more than 30 other late leaders and volunteers. So they say on their website that that the Armenian is made on the basis that we don't want a rabbi and we don't want a sack and we don't need a postk. We have a committee. We committee of lay people who are no doubt highly educated who decide what's right and what's wrong. Now I brought you a a link to an article by a close friend of mine, Rabbi Alan Habber which he wrote many years ago and he wants to argue you can READ FOR YOURSELF THAT itself defines this as a non-orthodox reality. the fact that you're not prepared to have any kind of sac you're not prepared to have a pisk and you have hala decided by a team of lay leaders before you even get into any of the arguments whether it works or doesn't work that itself is a major departure from the way that a uh an orthodox community would work and again I'm not here to say what is orthodox what isn't orthodox but I think this is very important as a uh not to get bogged down in the specific arguments but to only but to see that reality and I brought you in in in Fortno Ken. Um I I went on uh the website for one of the partnership in Yanim in London. Uh which again I've never been to. Um and I brought you in number 10. They had a a conference symposium in 2024 and I brought you a quote here and they invited um Rabbi Raal Burkowitz. Now Raal Burkowitz is a Tamidam. She's written widely. She goes on her website as Rav Rael Burkowitz. We said that's an interesting question as well. what the women rabbi situation is and what people call themselves rabbah raids rav but it's interesting that she you know goes as that and they quote as follows rael burkowitz took the symposium through halaki sources and around around women leading marv the history and laws around makita and the question of women counting in a minion three possible areas for developments in partnership in yanim in the future now these are all things which all of the people who founded The hakic basis for this movement say are absolutely prohibited. You can't get rid of the makita. You can't call women for a minion and you can't have women reading a davba kadusha and therefore what you have is a development an evolution within the partnership minion world. So we're interested in exploring these things in the future. And of course if you have a a board of lay lay people deciding what's hakically okay then you know there are very few few uh hard lines. Um and then it says here Shir Khadasha currently invites women and men to lead Mariv which is interesting again Rabbi Spurber absolutely does not permit this to my knowledge. Other minyanim have experiments with triitas or sections for non-binary binary members or family who have a particular need to sit together across the genders. As far as we know partnership minion currently can women in the minion of 10 although Rava Burkowit shared compelling sources to show how it could be allowed. Now again I'm not here to argue with anyone on this particular sources but I just want you to understand that the the reality of the movement is very kind of fluid in this way. Uh and therefore even if you were to to decide that these things are technically um justifiable uh you have to understand where things go and how things move. Having said all of that I now want to swing in the other direction and bring you two sources which I think are extremely important. One is from Rabbi Heshi Billet. Now, I'm sure some of you in this room know Rabbi Billet much better than I do. I've met him a few times. He was a Rav here in in Young Israel in Woodmir and now lives in Israel. And and he has a uh source number two. He he wrote a letter to a tradition journal in response to this sort of uh master 90,000word article and he writes as follows. The article by rabbis Ari and Drimma on the subject of partnership is the best substantive hashic piece on the subject. It shows that the articles written in support of these minyanim scholarly are tenuous halaki. The author authors of those articles must explain how they can deal with the points made in the fmer's article and it it takes a lot of zitage to take on each of those 90,000 words one by one and answer it. Nevertheless, I think it would be an error to launch a crusade against these minyan. This is not a nonorthodox venture. We should not lose sight of the fact that while people involved in these minali may be mistaken, they are primarily orthodox Jews committed to haki Judaism. They have chosen their post and act accordingly. They deserve to be seriously critiqued but not delegitimized. The conservative and reform movements of the 19th and 20th century have failed and are no threat to orthodoxy today. In my opinion, to adopt a 19th century banishing strategy of Rahers and the kasam sofa in our day is a mistake. Indeed, I often wonder whether that strategy was a success or failure. Perhaps the strategy of engagement instead of estrangement would have been would have kept more Jews in the fold in those days. To delegitimize the participants in the partnership minion today is to exclude people who are Orthodox in identification and practice. Many of them are well-educated graduates of our finest Orthodox schools of higher Jewish learning. The Frimmer's article challenges them with solid issues to ponder and sources which must be seriously addressed. But the real challenge I believe is to continue the conversation without delegitimizing each other. I think that's extremely important because everyone who I've ever met who is in support of partnership is someone who is a yores shamim who is seeking truth who is genuinely feels disenfranchised by many of the structures in the orthodox world as as it exists today or at least as it existed then. And therefore people people need to be treated with that level of respect and uh and legitimacy in that even if the hackic structure for these things may be flawed which I think it it is these people are coming lame shamay to a large degree obviously not everybody but to a large degree yes >> I think things are dramatically changing the heada just became rob she she rob death price and several people at joa also finished six years seven years I forget how many a lot of years >> right >> learning and getting their >> right right >> and very from people very knowledgeable very >> correct correct correct >> think >> so it we we have to handle it with that in mind and I brought you also at the top of page three an article from Jeremy Wida Rabbi Jeremy Weda who is also a very significant voice in the YU uh world I believe one of the Russian yeshiva now in the YU based med um and he wrote an article some time ago on women and in uh Analytz and he says number three dealing with the issues of the role of women in contemporary orthodox society among other questions raised by the content of modernity requires a great deal of nuance and sensitivity both to women and to the halaka meaning sensitivity goes in both directions you can't just be sensitive to women you also have to be sensitive to the halakan tradition unfortunately that sensitivity has not always been present many have questioned the motivations of those pushing for change I believe that as a general rule this is an unhelpful direction motivation ations reflecting the people who harbor them are complex. We live in a complex environment with many competing values and needs, all of which need to be reconciled in some way to allow us to function as a traditional community in a very untraditional world. Judging people's motivations too often entails misjudging them. On the other side, there are those who dismiss opponents of change as reactionary or worse. Those who reject for example the hakic legitimacy of innovations like partnership minyim or challenge the hakic acceptability of innovative approach to addressing the question of agun are charged with ignorance of or failing to understand the farreaching nature of social changes as misogynists or as troglodites. Haven't heard that word for so long. And when when I reread that word, I I'm determined to try and bring that into my conversation uh at least once a week if I possibly can. Troglodites. >> Troglodites are are sort of like Neanderiles, you would kind of say like you completely what's that? Philistines. Although that's more cultural. Troglodites are just like silly, you know, uneducated men who like bash people because they are unhappy with what they do. Fine. But the concern of holding the community together, keeping it together, keeping it connected with previous generations and traditions and maintaining its filty to halaka is very real and has animated and informed the halaki decisions of postkim for generations. The wrong kind of change has the potential to tear our community apart and rip it from the traditional moorings that anchor us. So I wanted to bring those two English sources in to show that I don't think we should be on a crusade against partnership miny and certainly not against the people who are in them but we need to be uh aware of the major major hakic uh problems to the point of uh of illegitimacy of the minion itself. I just brought you one very interesting source that we haven't seen in this cheer before in number four from Amorar Sanhedrin my why does it say in Zakaria I'm going to take two branches two sticks says no one of them I've called no meaning pleasantness and the other I've I've called like abuse or uh or violence So what are these two sticks? Says the Gomorrah pleasantness. These are the rabbis in the land of Israel at least in those times. And they they they make pleasantness towards each other. they they legitimize each other in a pleasant way when they're discussing um but abusive or violence. These are the Babylonian rabbis because they attack each other and they actually abuse each other on a certain way in Rashi explains because they speak in a in a in a sharp way and they get angry and they are actually causing sorrows to each other. Now of course yes you know uh spirited debate and people getting excited that's what we want. I sat next sat next to a guy in yeshiva. I was in a terrace Israel uh in Bagan for two years. It's a Kevron offshoot and I was one of the few in the yeshiva and a guy sat next to me on the on the bench who must have been about£350 and he screamed day in dayight at his to the point that at the end of the day my head was like literally ringing at the end of every day. At one point I I I picked up the courage to kind of tap him on the shoulder and and say to him like like something like a like like a very timid Englishnake. And he he looked at me and his face went bright red and he screamed at me. HE SAID MITZVORITA LIKE THIS LIKE and I went like okay I I I just had to he was a very nice fellow. Um and and maybe he was very pleasant in his own way but there is a line Rash is saying there is a line and he says the line is when you're harsh to that degree. However, they can be together and they're you know they analyze things together and rather than bashing each other they actually complement each other and if you're listening you end up with enlightenment. >> So we need more light and less heat. Okay. And therefore the Gmorra even addresses this that there's a way to debate and there's a way not to debate. Interesting that one of the in the now in Povich, one of the groups what's called >> Okay, that's very interesting. Okay, that's probably about the other group they call them that. Okay, fine. I just brought you before we get into the the the uh Oh, I can see I've already taken way too long of the the introduction, but okay, we'll do what we can. Um, I brought you some other ideas of the way that the Orthodox world is now actually changing in some very refreshing and exciting ways. I think that October 7th has given a a fresh start in many ways to lots of new ideas in the community and I think that actually there are directions that we can go in which are uh which are uh potentially will engage more people which do not go into this partnership minion space but that's not for now [gasps] let's talk about career satra let's spend half an hour just under on kaatur where does kerat come from well it comes from hackel looking number five at the end of Seven years after when they all come to be seen to be seen to see and be seen in the holy place that God will choose. You must read this Torah in front of all the Jews. Gather all the people together. And that's why this is important. The women have to be there. And the kids and also even maybe non-Jews who are around has to they have to hear they have to learn and they have to fear God and they have to keep the Torah and the kids who don't understand they'll at least hear and they'll realize how important it is to be in awe and reverence of the word of Hashem. and Rabbi has a beautiful sh which I recommend to you where he talks about the fact that this is a recreation of har we'll get to that soon after the shmita year where everybody is given very limited provisions they can take so much from the field and no more this amount that they can take is the same as the the amount the omare that they can take so you're recreating the the people in the deserturing during that year and then you move to the mountain to receive again the Torah of the mountain being haram and you hear the Torah but the women had to be there very important that's the starting point that's a Torah mitzvah but then the rabbis went further number six excuse me that Moshe made a tak as a rabbi a rabbitic taka that you had to read this Torah on You have to read the which you'll recognize from that that Moshe says over the moadeim to the ben Israel which I brought you in the middle is said Moshe said over the order the the laws of the moadeim and he taught them Israel. So that's the purpose to teach the Ezra hit and then Ezra later we'll see Ezra soon inimash and he extended it to Monday Thursday and Shabbas and we'll see in a minute it wasn't even Ezra that was already also from the time of Mosha Rabain and we'll see why in just a second very quick >> man and just you you hadn't you hadn't staked out the position of of the the postkin >> yes not That's we're at the beginning of three sessions. >> Okay. I mean, so I >> We'll get there. We'll get there. We'll get there. Let's keep the questions. I'm sure if you >> like you you have a sh >> Okay. Good. Good. We're going to get there. This is not this is not the end. This is just the beginning, you know. It's not even the end of the beginning to quote Winston Churchill. Okay. Uh it's it's it's still the beginning of the beginning. And after three sessions, we'll see, you know, you can see who we should put back in and I'm happy to hear your comments. So have a look here in number seven. The Gomorrah says it wasn't just Ezra to read on Monday and Thursday. Ezra that was Ezra. No, it came from the very beginning. This idea you have to read the Torah regularly, not from Ezra. The famous a famous they went for three days in the desert without finding water. Dorumu those the rabbis that found hints in midrashim they uh they explain as follows is Torah the water that they were looking for was says everyone who is thirsty come and drink and if you follow that he's talking about thee come and drink theem they went three days without Torah through the desert they were worn out they couldn't manage and the then at the time stood up they have to read on Shabas then they can take a break on Sunday and they can read on Monday and take a break on Tuesday Wednesday they can read they read on Thursday and they take a break on Friday Torah we have to have Torah at least every three days. And actually when the Rambam brings he points that out in number eight he says etc. So this is built in from the earliest earliest time. So was it Moshe? Was it Ezra? So look at number nine. Again all of these sources lay groundwork for next week. So you might have to do before you come back next week. Says the Gomorrah mik. The answer is it was both Masha and Ezra originally. The war the rule was one man was called up to read three verses. So that's all you need. One man three verses. Alternatively tal three men taluki should read threeukim. Okayim, which as we know is built in still to our creatur and Ezra came along. He said, "No, you have to have three alias, theuki and 10ukimarlim for the for the 10 men, the minion men, the men who have no other job and their community support them and they pay them to be there on time." Meaning these people are important. we want to give them covered and therefore you have to have 10 pukim connected parallel to these these 10 people. So the original enactment was smaller only one person maybe maybe three people only three pukim but that was extended to 10 pukim which we have now and in fact rasolvichic you can read this number 10 in your own time he says that actually the purpose of kusatra is not to learn to per se it's to be sanctified through the public reading of Torah that we're again standing at si listening to the hashem this is a moment of public. It's not about learning the Torah specifically. We'll see that's coming in right now because Ezra and rededicated the people again in their own the new Sinai moment. Look at number 11. And you'll see this is also very very interesting. Page number five. The Jewish people have come back from Bavl. They're in a bit of a mess. A lot of people have forgotten uh how to pray, how to learn. They're married to non-Jews as well. They [clears throat] gathered the people together all the people in to the water gate down near what is now the dung gate ruler and they said to bring a safer to they said to him bring the Torah of Moshe that God gave to the Jewish people brings the Torah Again the women have to be there said Ezra you can't do this without the women there and anyone who understands on the first of of there's a lot to say about here we talked about that before and he read that Torah in the street by the water gate or he he read the Torah from sunrise or even before all the way through to lunchtime. time. If you think Rashashana services go on too long, okay, this is where it all comes from. Bainy took 6 hours. Okay, he read he read the book and he read it to the men and he read it to the women and there were people who were explaining it. They put him on a big beamer on a on a on a wooden tower which they made specifically and they all stood by him all all the names of the people who stood here. I'm not going to read all their names. Hey, just makes and Ezra opened up the people for the Torah for all the people to see. Um [clears throat] because he was standing above them when he opened it up everybody stood up. This sounds like it's Yeah. He opens up the Torah for everybody to see and he and everybody stands up and he made a toe which sounds like the braas we make when we read the Torah and the people all answered a lifted up their arms. Interesting. Is this an origin of people pointing to the safer Torah with their pinky? We had a whole shear on that. Remember there's no basis for the pinky. I can assure you we talked about that in the sh. Okay. But they lifted up their arms and they bowed down. And then all these people they had special people to explain. The Yeshua Yamaha is all these people were appointed and they they had like a y it's not enough just to read the Torah. they're going to explain it. The people have to be there to have it explained to them. And if you look for a second, uh this is the origin of the the taragum. The idea is they translated it into Aramaic. If you if you see in um uh number 13 when Rashi talks about why are they translating and explaining the Torah? Uh and it says there that when you when you read the Torah um then you have to uh you have um uh yeah when you When you're reading the Torah, it has to be clearer when you're reading the with the why. Why are we translating the Torah into Aramaic? Says Rashi. So that the women will understand and the people who don't have an education. So I brought you these sources because it's very important to note that the women are very much part of this process of ka satra. They want the women to be there. They want the women to understand. They have matured thought for specifically for the for the women who are there so that they'll understand it if they don't speak Hebrew. So that's by way of a more of an introduction as to where the Torah comes from. I'm going to skip a little bit now. >> That's the T. >> Yeah, the T. Exactly. I'm going to skip a little bit now because I need to make up a bit of time. You can read 14, 15, and 16 that we talk about the Torah as recreating Heni. Also I'm going to skip on page 61 17-21 because that's focusing on the kadusha that it's a dasha kadusha. There is a lot to be said but we are going to come back to that please God next week. But I want to ask you a question now is who is obligated to read the Torah? Is everybody obligated to hear? Is does everyone have to be there? Do all the community come on Shabas morning to hear the Torah being read? No. >> Let alone Monday and Thursday, you know. No, they don't all come. So let's explore this a little bit because this is going to be very important next week as well. The Mishna says in McGill number 22, a kid can read from the Torah but he can't d from the interesting a cannot d from the he can't say the prayers for the community but he can read from the Torah. What's the difference? Also I brought you in 23 coming up. crisis. Anyone can read the migill but they have to they can't a kid can't read the migill either. So why can a child read the safer Torah but he can't read the migillah. It sounds like and we're going to explore this that the reason is as follows that every individual has an obligation to pray and to hear the migillah. I have to read the migilla. So the person reading the migill is reading it for me. But we'll see soon. Do I have to read from the Torah or not? Maybe I don't have to read from the Torah. There just has to be a Torah reading. So, if there just has to be a reading, you're not fulfilling an individual obligation. So, maybe I don't care who reads it. I mean, there has to be a limit. Maybe we can just play a recording. Just record the laning and press play, you know, on a time switch, you know, there has to be someone reading, but maybe I don't care if it's a kid. Okay, he's not being Mo mighty me cuz I don't have the same level of obligation unlike McGiller or prayer when I do. So let's see if we can explore that point right now. Number 24 top of page seven. What is the following referring to? Those who abandon God will be destroyed. Who are those people? Those who people who leave the safer Torah for and walk out ashore. Walk out join the laning. Oh, Rabar says no nothing between Gav and the Gy you can come out between alias just don't walk out in the middle of the lane. Rashes Rashes Mahada ape he would join the lane and he would turn his face in the other direction and he would do his learning. He would learn his own stuff. Rashi explains mahada ape vagaris he'd learn his hisor. He was doing his own personal learning. He wasn't even listening to the safer Torah being read and he would say we're doing our stuff and they're doing their stuff. Everybody's learning. They're reading the Torah. I'm going through my Mishnas. Now, this sounds like he didn't think he had an obligation to listen to the safer Torah. Certainly not to to have in mind to be in the safer Torah. And yet the Gomorrah says number 25. as soon as the safetra is opened you may not speak you can't even say well I'm talking Torah it it's absolutely not a land and they bring the proof there from Ezra when he opened the Torah everybody stood up everybody was quiet etc so okay so do I have to listen or do I not have to listen didn't but maybe that's cuz he's Rashaceious maybe he gets a special dispensation of some mind but does everyone else have to listen? So there's a Ramban the Ramban says an interesting thing. He says in number 26, all these things which have been taught in our Mishna that have to be done in public etc. including the uh the safer Torah reading the reading of the safer Torah. These are communal obligations. They're not individual obligations. But then he says rather confusingly and they're only for those people who are obligated. >> I thought you told me there was no one obligated. It was a community obligation. Now you're telling me there are some people obligated but when it comes to migill just like the community needs to have a migill reading every man every woman has to make sure they read the migilla and when they read the migill in you're reading for me but say for reading it's a community obligation but there is also a level of individual and I brought you the ragave in number 27 who says individuals are not obligated to hear the reading They're obligated, the men at least, we'll get to women in a minute, are obligated to make sure there is laning. Meaning, until the laning is set up, every man in the community has an individual obligation to get it set up. But once you've set the system up and you have 10 people listening, 10 men listening and a minion and a proper balora, then uh then you've done your bid, everyone's uh happy, and then it's just a community obligation. But not everybody seems to agree with that. I brought you the Raan who seems to say no. Look at number 28. Raan was early. He says my brother's asking brother has asked me a shaman. We're going to see this more next week. Why does the person reading the the start? What's that got to do with anything? Let him just make a bra. Every time I make a I don't start by clapping saying like everyone has to join in somehow everyone has to join in. Why? He says let let him just say and and everyone say why does he have to invite and my response is Ezra made this decree everyone has to read the Torah Monday Thursday shabas and the person reading the Torah might see he's being might see everybody there they all have to read the harbor. Therefore, this man stands up and says to the community, you have to bless the and you have to read like me and therefore I'm inviting I'm asking you is the person saying is everybody listening because I'm telling you now I'm doing this for you. listen to my reading and then you'll be blessing with me on him and they reply fine just like the why do they say at the beginning of in why do they say inv you you don't think about this you think oh that's just what the is no it's the same thing he says who might see cuz it used to be in the old days people didn't have people didn't dab in their own braas. The guy said and everyone in responded and they listened to him saying the whole and said so it's an invitation to everybody to listen carefully and he said to them etc etc and so too with benching what's with why why do we why do we need that just does just make a who makes such a song and dance about it no the same thing cuz in the old days everybody listened to the person leading the zimon he benched and you listened to every word and said amen. So whenever you're doing something where everybody has to really tune in and be part of that process because they're you're doing it for them there's a bar or there's a rabbi of now according to this I'm reading the safer Torah you see why this is going to be important because if you're going to call up a woman to read or to make an aliyah or to say you're going to have to ask the question do we have the same level of obligation yes or no because if we don't you can't be Mo mighty somebody if you're on a lower level of obligation we're going to have to deal of this what is the mechanism of creator if you say no it's just a communal reading so anyone in the community can read you're not reading for me you're reading for the community maybe women are included in that they're part of the community we saw they have to be present mat tora etc the way you define this system is going to make a big difference to uh to how it actually works so I brought you the in 29 who gives all sorts of different opinions you have to do you have to listen to every word. Can you do your whole learning? You can you can follow along. You can read that afterward. He says at the very end there that you you really need to listen. It's better to listen even though technically you could be learning something else. And this includes the half Torah. Now, one thing you're not allowed to do is talk to your friends during the laning during the half Torah. And most people are pretty good during the laning, but the half Torah has a very bad masle in a lot of places. And it seems to be I mean those people who don't just leave to have a whiskey in the Kdish Club. um they take stay in the kibas with all their friends and I remember once you know Rabbi Kimi in London going up to to you know Balabatim who used the half terror as their opportunity to kibus with each other every single week and he went up to them and he said to them I noticed you're always talking during the the halfra you know why don't you listen and they responded to the said listen rabbi [laughter] no one listened to the prophets the first time they spoke and that's what we do today. Okay. And that in a nutshell is why you wouldn't want to be a community rabbi. [laughter] Certain certainly not in England because that experience is a microcosm of your entire career. Okay? And I say that from knowledge. Bottom line, page number eight, uh the Vagong uh sorry Ravad Yosf uh rules that it's a public obligation, not a private obligation. Rashman also rules that it's an obligation on the community and not a private obligation. He says and that's why if you miss a laning because you go to it's in a year where you're out of sync. >> Yeah. >> You don't have to have a reading specially to catch up on all the laning that you missed because you skipped a week because there in they were a week behind week behind. However, you probably have seen that there are schuls who do this because the view of the briskas, the view of the briskas is no, you have an individual obligation to hear the laning and if you missed, you have to catch it up. And I brought you from Maser of the Vnagon um in number 32 that when he was imprisoned by the authorities for four weeks when he got out he instructed the Balkyra to do a private reading with a minion obviously for him to catch up on all of the four weeks. So you have this different way of looking at it community or individual obligation or maybe some kind of a hybrid. I brought you also in the footnotes there from Rav Hersel Shea. What do we do during COVID when so many people missed out so many weeks of laning when you finally reopened the shaw 15 weeks later or however many was do you have to have a reading of uh all of the weeks that you missed and he passed that you don't have to but if you want to you can and he worked out you know there are bar mitzvah boys who've missed their their week because the shaw was closed and maybe you could do a whole laning and very very interesting maybe you can split it up once the Shaw opens, you can read this week's para and like four other paras this week and four other paras next week and etc. And then you have a sh of what half Torah do I do because I always do a half Torah based on the last reading. >> All of them. >> All of them. That far you didn't go. Okay. Although we'll give you a great opportunity to catch up with your friends. Okay. Fine. Okay. Um I just brought you in number nine and we'll just go on for a couple of minutes. Um we made a bit of a late start, Rabbi, but I'll try and start I'll try and finish as much as quickly as we can. We have a Shila and I just want to bring this up. Are women obligated in any of the things that we've seen so far individually communally. Um there is a source in saf which actually we are going to come back to next week so I don't we don't need to get into the weeds that says that women are obligated to listen to the satara. Uh and the question is do we ask in that way? Is is this like an obligation? Is this a is this a recommendation? Is this a halakic source? Because it also goes on to say women are not obligated in kma and we we definitely don't pass like that. So what are we going to do with this source from saf and I'm just going to really leave you leave you with a magnan rom. So the magnan roam uh most people have pasc all the way through the women are not obligated in uh the creatur looking maybe 34 first says to me if a woman were to be called up how could she possibly make the she's exempted meaning everybody knows that women aren't obligated in in he says a kid he could make a He has a bit of but women can't make a and that's how most people of pas the clearly pas the women are exempted from creator yes they should it's good for them to go it's good for them to listen they can be part of the community mitzvah and there's just one you know spanner in the works or wrench in the works whatever you want to say which I'll leave you with which we'll come back to is this magn number 35 says look I'm not sure so straightforward I I don't know. There's a lot of sources to me. He says that seem to say that women are obligated even though there's a angle to this for and women are not obligated in the same way. Why aren't they required to come and hear it? It's nothing to do with learning Torah. It's the experience of Torah. women were women and then he brings this and they you even have to translate the t for them so they so they'll understand and then he leaves it with a problem which I'll leave you with he says but in my says in Poland where I live the women go outside as soon as the laning begins Listen, at least they don't talk inside. They go outside. But everybody in my choice says as soon as the guy starts laning, all the women leave and they go outside and maybe they're going to learning groups outside. Maybe they're sharing. I don't know what they're doing outside, but they're not they're not inside. So, he says even if women are obligated, I don't know how to explain the fact that the women don't think they're obligated. So all of that uh will lay groundwork and today was relatively straightforward hopefully to try and work out what's going on with partnership in Yan. And one of the questions you have to bear in mind is like we said is it a community obligation? Is it an individual obligation? And are women included in that or not? Rabbi, thank you for being patient. I'm sorry I went over a minute or two.