Mysteries at the Burning Bush By Rabbi Shmuel Goldin

let's begin even though seems that some people are not yet back all right we're going to uh take a look at what I call Mysteries at the burning bush and there these are this is a pivotal moment this is the moment where Moshe begins his leadership as the mosha rainu as the one who will lead CLA Israel out of Egypt and supervise the birth of a Nation because the Exodus from Egypt is actually the beginning of our national era closes our era of the individual and Begins the era of the nation and what God says to Moshe at the burning bush is extremely important and we're going to look at two places in the in the dialogue where in the monologue well it's a dialogue really they they do talk to each other take a look at the first section and this is the introduction to the message of Hashem at the burning bush at at the SN the Torah says MOS mosha was watching shepherding the Sheep of his father-in-law Israel v he brings the Sheep into the midbar into the wilderness and he came to the mountain of godo so let's stop for a moment what what does it mean when it says the Mountain of God what is K Hari correct in other words it's indicating that this will be the mountain where God will make his Revelation and this is the moment that he is doing so specifically only to Moshe all right a Moshe perceives this strange event mosha perceives a bush that's burning that not that is not being consumed and he comes aside he moves aside to take a look and the Torah is very specific and I noted this with you before o God saw that Moshe turned aside to look and then he begins to speak who takes the first step Moshe in other words Hashem can wait periodically for us to take the first step rather than us waiting for him to do so and if mosha would not have turned aside it seems the burning bush would not have been the event that it was and the dialogue might not have occurred in which case we would have stayed in Egypt and so moshe's turning aside is Extreme important but what's very mysterious when you think about it is how begins his instructions to Moshe what's the first thing that he says don't come near the bush take off your shoes because the place where you stand where you are standing is Holy Ground now when you think about it how would you have expected hes baraku to begin his instructions I would have expected with the next sentence at least I introducing himself introducing the moment speaking about what's about to occur this is this is a pivotal moment the first thing that God says to Moshe is take off your shoes it really doesn't make it really seems not to make sense we'll see that it makes the first thing he true true first thing he says is mooshe Moshe all right correct correct he he calls him but the first instruction that he gives okay the first uh instruction that he gives is take off your shoes yes [Music] that's an interesting point all right that's a very interesting question why if he saw that he turned to look why does he say Moshe Moshe because apparently I he wants to indicate that what is occurring and what is happening is specifically aimed at Moshe I would think that's my immediate answer I'll have to think about other answers but that would be my immediate answer all right so what why do you think God is telling mosha to take off his shoes what does it what does he mean when he says this place is Holy Ground what is he referring to well he's referring to the fact as we said a foreshadowing of what is going to occur on Hari this is a pivotal place this is somewhere where God will reveal himself and therefore the place where you're standing now is Holy Ground now we're going to see something in a moment that sort of contradicts this but that is the General interpretation of this instruction this is Holy Ground you don't realize where you're standing take off your shoes out of respect because your shoes may be dirty they may have picked up things etc etc According to some commentaries others saying root yourself to the ground feel the ground this is Holy Ground we don't consider it Holy Ground now that's a very good point and I'll come to that okay she said we don't consider it holy ground now and we'll we'll come to that yeah goad answer to mosha mosha go ahead quickly sh and each time it's a time in history where the person has a chance to reach his potential is is it a Crossroads very nice a pretty I'll I'll repeat it okay so there are three places where four places where the double name is used Moshe Moshe a Ab and shmu shm and yov Yakov okay and at each case she says the um individual is about to reach begin to reach their potential right chance to do so now there is a wonderful explanation that is offered by R shim H to our question concerning he turns it totally around he says take a look at the language take a look quickly and I may be adding as I've said to you before I may be adding some of my own thoughts to this so whatever you don't like consider it mine whatever you do like it's his all right alom says Rafel hsh don't come near this bush don't look for me in burning bushes don't look for me in miraculous events take off your shoes of Adas because the place where you stand is Holy Ground wherever you stand wherever you are because you have the capacity to create create what to create Holiness to create kadua in partnership with God that's the that's really the whole message of of our existence is that we are to create kadha we are to create sanctity in this world through our partnership with God and it depends on us to do so he depends on us to do so in other words he has retreated and allows us to create that kadush and if you accept Ra's explanation this is the perfect introduction because what he's saying is you're about to embark on a on a on a n National Journey the purpose of which is to underscore because where you stand is potentially Holy Ground we will see later depending on how how far we get in in schot that this concept may be repeated again take a look at the bottom section bottom section is coming from Revelation and these two sentences these two sentences actually form the scene at har because what does a say to Moshe he says tell them what is what does the word vbal come from what's the root of that word K meaning boundary they take make a boundary around the mountain and don't come up the mountain don't touch it at all at the pain of death the next PK says that someone who does someone who breaks through that boundary is going to be you should put him to death now it's it interesting as a side comment is what it's no it's it's correct in other words you should create a for the nation right around so so he's telling him to create a g that applies to them good question and the fact is that what what will happen is the nation and it the interesting side point is that I I remember when I thought of Hari and the scene of Hari as a child and and thought about what this hi Balta that at the pain of death you can't climb the mountain what did I expect I expected that if you touch the Mountain Green lightning would come from the sky and kill you right in other words you're God is telling you don't touch the mountain and if you do I'll put you to death that's not what he says what he says is if an individual touches the mountain you are to put him to death you are to you are to strike him in other words if you take a look at the language it's very clear in other words what what should you do you should either Stone him or put him to death through the By The Sword he is again underscoring the partnership between man and God he's saying I'm asking you I'm telling you to preserve my boundary the boundary that I'm expecting the boundary that I insist upon good question why two different types I guess because I we haven't yet begun the system of this this act gets this death this act gets that death so right now we have different possibilities what you should do but you should you are the one so what is God is rooting at the giving of the Torah the process of hakik process isn't he what he's basically saying is you're going to set up judges eventually you're going to set up courts you're going to be the ones to enforce the law generally I'm not the one to enforce the law and that's part of your partnership and there right correct correct okay so so therefore yes okay I'll I'll I'll repeat go ahead right okay all right he was saying that he's reading it differently I would argue with you on this all right he's saying that uh the land is kados and this is just God's nice way of saying don't come near the bush but he says what don't come near me don't come near but he already says that he already says Al he says don't come near the bush don't come near me stay where you are and and the sentence absolutely says ades the place where you are standing is Holy Ground you can't that you can't say that that that that the land the ground is not holy when the Torah says ground is Holy all right we'll we'll argue it later we'll argue it later discuss it later all right yes because I'm running tight here yeah how is that say the grand I don't remember I don't think so I don't think I don't think he I don't remember the quote but I don't I don't believe so all right now why does God insist on creating a boundary when it comes to Mator why does he insist on creating a g wouldn't you expect this is the moment of God's revelation that I could climb the mountain that I could see him that I could receive the Torah that that this is the moment of closest contact between God and man and yet God is insisting upon distance so one answer would be that's right and our relationship with a kesu is a blend of closeness and distance kados kados kados three times we say it You Are Holy what does holy mean you are separate according to HZ you are you are separate from all of creation but the whole land is filled with your glory so we we recognize that hasem is as near to us as the next tree the next person but at the same time we say that God is distant and it's that balance between distance and familiarity that marks our relationship with Hashem where where do you find another relationship that has that balance parent child right and I I said to you last week that that the problem with many parents today is they don't want to be parents they want to be the children I I remember finding it very strange when my friends used to call their parents by their first name and says it's wrong says you're not allowed to do that you have to retain that boundary you have to retain therefore vear is not saying is not an empty not an empty command it's a commandment this is how we're setting up harini to underscore that but he's also doing something else I'll hold on a minute I'll be right with you in a minute but he's also doing something else and that is he's saying what he said to Moshe he is saying don't climb the mountain because the place where you stand is where you need to be receiving the Torah that's where you that's where you'll find a kades bar you will find aades baru in this world in this world involved with the world and bringing Kusa into the world and how you explain that can create a great difference between different communities here in Israel right what does it mean to be involved in the world but that's that's another another time and another place who who is the source for this who is the source that me if I don't quote on anybody then it's mine and as far as I know as far as I know okay exactly this is where you that to that's my that's my suggestion my suggestion is that he is saying exactly what he says to mosha according to ra which is you belong at the bottom of the mountain you don't belong at its top you belong receiving the Torah and bringing sanctity into the world okay quickly yes that's very good is very good I I would say I would suggest that that is so beautiful every BR has that balance right you speaking to you and then we go to the balance of we're going to it really doesn't grammatically hold right we're speaking in the first person we're moving to the third excellent that's the balance between nearness and closeness yes aano correct that's interesting all right all right right very good all right These are nice comments and that is that the whole Torah is a Mitzvah of Gul of boundaries and how where we're supposed to be and that is being reiterated at the scene of sin all right so that's what that's the first suggestion that I want you to think about and that is that that the first instruction that God gives to Moshe is don't come near because you have the power to invest kadus in the world where you stand and that that concept is the basis of really everything we're trying to do and that that concept is reiterated at harini now we're going to look at a puzzling pattern we're going to look at something that emerges at the burning bush it's not the first time we'll see it's not the first time it emerges but it it it's sort of jarring but God says I'll take you out of Egypt you'll be free you will be taken out as as uh Free People I'm looking at page two the second section I will give the people I will cause you to be find the Egyptians you to find find favor concerning you in other words you will be fa find favor in their eyes and therefore when you leave you will not leave empty-handed word every is I'm sorry every woman should turn will turn to his her neighbor and will ask for gold and silver and you will take the gold and silver from the Egyptians now this seems somewhat jarring right first of all God could give us gold and silver why am I taking it from the Egyptians what do the word v mean does it mean and this is It's an ambiguous word it can mean two things it can mean either you're asking for it or you're borrowing it okay so that we're going to see that that's part of the struggle here as well it's not clear but what what's going on why is it so important for me to go out with golden silver that's the wrong message I I used to speak to my to my SCH about the dangers of conspicuous of cons consumption right so therefore why is God at the moment of of Exodus telling us that we have to leave with conspicuous consumption take a look though that and we'll see that that this problem is a enlarged when we consider it as a pattern through the whole Exodus story go back to the Eve go back to Mo AB at the burning at the scene of Brit at the scene of the Covenant between the pieces which is the first time that mentions the enslavement in Egypt sort of doesn't say it specifically it says you'll be a Strangers In a Strange Land and they will work you they will create they will torment you and what does he then say the underlined section and they then will leave with tremendous tremendous growth wealth correct again now take a look at when it happens take a look at the second the the first paragraph on page number three God certains to Moser rabu this is a very very pivotal moment he turns to mosh rabenu and he says OHA one last plague I'm going to give and then you are going to go out free what would I expect God to tell mosha at that particular moment this is what you have to do this is who you are this is tell the nation that there their their mission is about to begin the journey is about to begin we're launching the national period of Jud Jewish history what is he say speak please to the ears of the people of please speak to the nation and tell them to turn to the Egyptians and again they should be whatever that word means either give they should give you or you should borrow so once again this is not a small a small fact within the Exodus clearly highlighted from the time of Abraham said again at the snap and then said again on the eve of The Exodus why is this conspicuous consumption I call it right why is this wealth so important why did the Egyptian neighbors want to give so much wealth right ACC apparently they saw the power of the 10 plagues the nine plagues that had already visited them and therefore although who says that they're going to favor you in other words it's not that it doesn't make them just afraid of us but for some reason and I'm not clear why it makes us find favor in their eyes and they're willing to do it they're willing to do it of their own of their own um their own power now the rabbis were aware of the problem that I'm raising and you can see that awareness in a couple of sections in the to take a look at the last paragraph on the on page number four four yeah two three no no yeah three correct okay why does God say no right isn't that strange right please please speak to the nation why does he say is the way he does it all the other times so theor will suggest that God is saying to the nation please I'm asking you I'm asking you to do this of your own free will what is what is God saying to the nation I want to fulfill my promises to aam I don't want aam to say in the other world to say well you know he he took us out but he didn't fulfill the problem the promise of giving us wealth so please allow me allow me to be clear and whole in my giving to arra ainu at this point please you will let me fulfill that prophecy now again he still doesn't say why though it has to happen this way all right hold on I'm gonna we're we're we're we're running out of time and um I'll take questions at the end I'll take questions at the end all right the second second section that shows the that that shows rinic awareness of the problem in other words that this is unique he's asking them to take take a look at the next section and it becomes clearer the next session Egypt comes according to kazal to a bezden of sorts and says give us back our gold and silver give us back you know you you you you sto St it from us and Along Comes A A A A plean in other words not one of the and he turns and he says let me answer them and he says to the court or to Egypt pay us for the decades and centuries of slavery pay us for our labor and they can't find an answer for that all right we're going to see that that's important in a moment but again there is this discomfort right there's this discomfort that I'm taking this wealth from the Egyptians take a look at the Ezra and it becomes even clearer the ezar says there are those who suggest that our that our forefathers were G ofin were were thieves right because and therefore they're they're at fault for taking this gold and silver says the Ezra it's not an issue if God tells you to do it you do it this is God's way of Distributing the wealth shouldn't ask questions you don't ask questions and the she would be over if we listen to Ezra all right so the rabbis will struggle now with what this gold and silver is and do we are we borrowing are we taking why are we getting this so according to some there is a a a critical backdrop that I'll I'll summarize in two places on your on your in your sheets which raises an even bigger question which is not only does God say at The Burning Bush you should have them get this gold and silver he also instructs him very specifically as to what he's to ask from par what is he to ask I remember as a kid right let my people go let them free let them God says go and ask for a three-day Journey go and ask for a threed day journey and we have to go we need three days to go out to worship Our God so why is that so why is he asking only for a three-day Journey what yeah they don't say it it's not in the text it doesn't oh oh oh you mean the the gold and silver yeah right okay right in other words we'll get to that stay with us that's one of the explanations for what's happening here all right so why is it that that God tells us to ask for a three-day journey and if he and if he has for a three-day Journey are we fooling the Egyptians by the end of The Exodus and not coming back after three days so we're not only were Liars but we're also gone of it why because we took their gold and silver maybe maybe they lent it to us rather than gave it to us and what we we're not coming back they think we're coming back we're not coming back all right but none that exacerbates the problem in other words now the gold and silver is perhaps part of a ruse part of a a trickery to cause the nation cause the Egyptians to chase to follow and we'll see that that's one of the explanations so let me just turn the page not only are the rabbi is aware of this problem but now they struggle take a look at page number five at the disparate approaches too and what what we're throwing to answer now is why is God telling us to take this gold and silver why is it so critical in The Exodus and how we can then understand the three-day Journey which is another sheer if we were to examine it in total so the first approach is the approach of says God forbid that God should be taking telling us to steal to be G what's G to fool to trick right not so not so what is he says that in this case is to ask for and to receive as a full gift and therefore they are not they are not expecting to get it back they're not expecting to to to us to come back Etc that they are giving this to us as a gift the the has a very very powerful beautiful explanation so but before we get to him let's let's talk a little more about rak's position why is he getting why are we getting this as a gift so he goes on to say that this is compensation for the for the work and that we should see ourselves as receiving that compensation that's why D that's why it's not a commandment that's why it's a request because we need to feel that this belongs bels to us that we're taking it properly and it's compensation for what we did for the Egyptians second comments and questions at the end okay right uh thanks all right so that's the ham the N who lived in the N 20th century says I Now understand from our experience what this gold and silver was and why God says no it's not payment it's reparations all right what are reparations in other words instead of payment for my work you can't pay me for that work it's true okay but you want to say you're sorry right and you want to give me something because you're saying you're sorry and and to make to even the scale somewhat so therefore says and it's if seeing the debate here in Israel right between those who said take the German reparations and those who said don't take the German reparations and this was a huge debate this one one side said they got us why should they also have our wealth let them give us back our wealth as reparations and others said don't you take anything from them right you you you don't let them hit off the hook don't allow them to escape their guilt don't let them don't take those reparations you're you're demeaning the victims by taking the reparations and so there's this whole debate that takes place in the time of the de he says that's what was happening in is in Egypt and that's why God says be no according to the because he says I know it's going to be hard for you and I know it's going to be controversial and I know that there will be those will say don't take it but I'm telling you to take this and and you need to have it and therefore follow my instructions but it's D no I know it's going to be hard I know that that that there will be those who will say no all right we'll come back to any any comments All Right Next the the malbim the malbim has an interesting approach it's a two-stage approach where he says that first we turn the women turn to their neighbors immediate neighbors and they ask for gold and silver but there is a a transfer that's taking place here give and take my neighbors will now be able to come into my house and take whatever I've left so therefore the gold and silver that I'm taking is even with the the Bounty that I will have to leave by behind and my neighbors will be the ones who will benefit from that that Bounty he then says that at the burning bush we move past our immediate neighbors and that's where we ask for the gold and silver either as a loan or a gift and at that point it's no longer a transference and he says that very very clearly he says that um this is a this is meant to be seen as a gift and the fact is that what happened according to the m is that the Egyptians seeing that the Israelites have left recognizing that they're not coming back make their at that point make their belongings have care in other words they become matanos they become gifts at that Point what we took right becomes ours and that's because they lost hope at ever getting it back these are various different explanations one last explanation which ties in the three-day journey is that God wants the Egyptians to chase us God wants the Egyptians to see us leave after 3 days say were coming back after 3 days and the gold and silver is another reason to chase us right in other words having the gold and silver is another reason that they should pursue us and why does he want them to pursue us after three days because you have to have the event of yamu yamu is the culminating event of The Exodus itself and the Israelites will only potentially be free if they see the total decimation of Egyptian power it's not enough the 10 plagues are not enough yamu has to occur so please get this gold and silver set up the stage and and they will they will chase you but in addition to all of these various different explanations as to why kesu tells us to take this gold and silver I'm going to offer another one all right again this is mine what was the gold and silver used for eventually all right I you if you listen carefully you said two things right right all right the agel and the mishkon wow two totally different events at opposite ends of the spectrum and what is the gold and silver it's the mechanism that will concretize my actions at both of those scenes right in other words I will either choose to give it to the AAL theoretically or I'll choose to give it to the mishkan what is it that is actualizing my choice the possessions that are mind and now take a look at what kazal say kazal say if you turn to the last page next to last page that a a poor person is perceived as dead and why is a poor person SE perceived as dead and they answer because he cannot actualize anything in his world he can't I think I have a page missing in my handout he can't actualize anything in his world and therefore so if we take that as our as our proverb as our model then we understand even better why this gold and silver was necessary but Israel in order to be free had to have something that they cherished had to have something that they knew belonged to them that came to them of their own free will and that's T and they would then use that and that they wouldn't be free if they didn't have it if they didn't have it they couldn't choose they couldn't create they couldn't actualize their freedom so the gold and silver is essential within the Exodus because specifically because of what it's used for the potential to use and what is what's the lesson that we have of course that that our possessions and that everything that we cherish can be used either for good or for bad and and that's the way we actualize our choices in the world and therefore this becomes essential to The Exodus process and not just an afterthought okay and comments and questions yeah that is the that is the argument that was used here in is is against the Germans right and the answer is is there two points of view one point of view is I'm not letting them off the hook but take the money I need the money use it why should they why should they have our money as well as our our souls and the other answer was no don't let him off the hook I know my father who was born in America Shalom never would buy anything from Germany right would not buy anything from Germany right other words what only here in Israel to buy everything from Germany all right but the fact is that eventually we did take these reparations eventually we did do what you know what Israel were told to do in in Egypt right so I would if it's reparations and Hashem is telling us to do it if that is the approach then my argument would be the following that who is telling us that we must have this gold and silver that taking it is not letting them off the hook they're still liable but have those possessions yes the ter original right right that's correct very good that that and that is even if they borrow it that's only potentially for the Egyptians to feel that way and that's why the rabbis struggle because the rabbis are saying you're you're deceiving the Egyptians as well they see it as theirs they have to see it as theirs the is the [Music] Israelites no I don't know maybe he did but it's not it's not contained in the text it's not contained in the text all right I'm going to move for a moment yes when when Moshe comes back to Har and climbs the mountain is there any indication in K if he had to take off his shoes very good question very good question uh when Moshe does eventually come to Hara for the national giving of the Torah does who make him take off his shoes and the answer to that is apparently not apparently not now also someone pointed out that we don't consider har Kesh now so it's very we what they already knew they should all right but but we don't even know where it is all right we don't that's correct we don't even know where it is in stark contrast to what in Stark to the base of harabas right one answer as to why that may be so is and this underscores some of the things we've been saying throughout is that harini is where God reaches out to man The harabas is where man reaches out to God and what who is saying is that lasting kadosa in this world can only last if you create if you you make it so that's a possibility and and that's an answer to your question why it is kados when Moshe comes to the bush uh according to many not clear but Hashem is saying that this is Holy Ground at that point that moment it was and the and the ex and at Hari Hashem is very clear Hashem says create a boundary until you hear the long chauffeur blast and after that then they right then the the kadha is gone there's no presence of a anymore the H Mountain itself is not kados and you can climb the mountain so clearly it's very different from the harabas and I would suggest my that was my suggestion as to why now I'm going to move very quickly now from this to a brief Kaneka thought because I don't think we should allow the festival to all right so if you look as many of us know if you look at the tamic description of the Mitzvah of the kanuk the lighting of the candles the eight candles the way it is fashioned is the following it's fashioned asuk is right one candle for a person and his home mahadin right if you want to be a mahadin person then then you should light candles um per per person per person mahadin Min mahadin you should light light candles going corresponding to the days B shamai saying you start with eight and go down B hillo says start with one and go off why is it that this particular mitah according to Kaz is formed on the basis of bottom line mahadin Mahin mahadin and we all do the mahadin mahadin right I I'm sure we don't do that in all other things I would assume I said that we don't necessarily do in all other things why are we all fulfilling and by the way there's a m between theim and the ashim in this right what did theim do theim light one corresponding to the days but one manora they say that the mahadin Min mahadin usurps the mahadin in other words they say that if you're going to light corresponding to the days then you should own that that takes over and it's instead of the mahadin it's not built on the mahadin as according to to the ashkenazim and what's fascinating by the way is we we follow each of us follow someone we don't normally follow the rambam who is usually the PO that theim will follow is the one who says everyone lights their own TOA on the page we who we usually follow says one one kukia for for the whole house all right but why why is this mahadin and mahad so if you looked at my article in the Torah tidbits you already know the answer if you remember it but if not I'm going to tell it to you again and that is a beautiful thought that I heard in the name of R Aron salv I heard it third hand I don't know if you said it but this is what I've heard we have mahadin mahadin specifically for this Mitzvah because it was the beauty of Greece that was the danger in other words what was it if you understand the story of kanak correctly what's happening is Israel is between two empires right Alexander the Great creates a huge Empire when he dies his Empire is carved out and given to his lieutenants to his followers sald receives the Syrian area toomy receives the Egyptian area and Israel as is always the case is the crossroads between the two again it's amazing how you repeat things again and again throughout our history now what is happening in Israel by the way is Israel is assimilating into GRE culture you're you're finding many many people looking at the beauty of the two empires that surround them and saying Alexander wanted to henize the world this is beautiful why are we doing the archaic Commandments let's become like the Greeks and if antias IV who is a seusd king had not given his edicts and pushed us against the wall it's very possible God forbid that we might have disappeared into the mids of history and become part of the Greek Empire or become born and by the way even in this we were arguing with each other all right there were those who wanted salus to to um underscore the power of saluci and there are those who wanted us to be loyal to to me and it's uh and each of them each of those two factions were assimilations assimilationists and the when B Yu raises his sword and says beem Eli he is not just challenging the Syrian Greeks he's challenging his own people and he saying who is willing to stay loyal to and therefore says salvic if it was the beauty of Greek culture that was really the danger here then the best way to fight beauty of others is to beautify your own the not to denigrate not to say the best way to be to fight the beauty of a surrounding culture that threatens to assimilate you is to beautify your own culture and therefore it's mahadin and mahadin mahadin specifically when it comes to it's a beautiful thought it's a beautiful thought yes uh you questions comments oh all right okay yes sorry yes all right well all right so so one of the the the comment that's being made and I'm repeating it is that by taking the reparations we laid the groundwork for our current relationship with uh with Germany which happens to be good they're supportive at this point they're having an election soon I think I from what I said what I don't and I'm wondering whether they will continue to support us after the election yes both of you right very good very good in other words uh we said Kat yamu has to happen can you say that about everything for example Le had to happen the answer to that I think is that Kat yamu is created by AES the agle is created by us and we have free choice KES bar is challenging us and by the way he knows what's going to happen right but it does not affect our choice at that moment at that moment the the fact is that this entire generation will not be free it will perish in the midmar almost right except for K and yosua God allows the events to unfold that we are making through our own free choice and that's really what we're saying about the gold and silver is that it actualizes our own so I don't think the agle had to happen I think God knew it would happen but it didn't have to happen we could have chosen otherwise ladies that's correct oh that's an interesting point he tell God tells that God tells the ladies to take the and according to kazal they are not the ones who create the AG according to K okay yet comment right because don't it's GNA again because say we'll take their money but if they don't change well that's that's correct that's correct and that was part of the argument against taking the money that that we would not they would not feel the need to change okay ladies and gentlemen kanuk thank you thank you e