Kavana in Tefila (Pt IV) | Rabbi Yossi Goldin | November 11th 2025

Okay, good morning. Good morning everybody. Um, I imagine they did explain the the the switch for today that uh I'm covering my father's slot, but I'm doing my regular my regular shear. So, um, my father will be here, bizarre, next week. Um, and I apologize if anyone was expecting him, but uh, we'll do our best um, to learn something meaningful during this time. Um, [snorts] >> yes, absolutely. >> The mic's not so clear. Um, okay. Is this better or worse? Not so good. >> I'll set. >> Yeah. Yeah. Have have them come in and try to see if we can if we can change it. I'll >> address the source sheet. >> Anyone else need a source sheet? Okay. So, um, as always, um, right before our Oh, also, um, just a, um, new announcement that, um, this year or my year has now, um, is now sponsored by Hedi and Ben Lipchitz. So, thank you so much to HDI and Ben for your sponsorship. Very much appreciated. Um, and as always, um, and it's also very interesting. This is she is taking place during a very auspicious time for AmIrael, I believe, as we're as we speak now. Um, the name the person the soldier that we had been domining for for for 10 years. Hadar Golden is right now as we speak um being buried in Far Sabah which is something that I'm sure we're all over very elated to hear of his of of his body's return and the and the closure that that will give his family. Um and we continue to to dive in that our learning should be is for all of our um and should bring the to all those who have been affected by this war and Hashem should give guidance to our leaders to make the right decisions. Hashem. >> Okay. So, um I hope um I don't know if anybody did. Last week in our class, we didn't finish the source sheet. So, I asked you to bring it back. If you didn't, it's okay because I had them make new copies. So, we are kind that's just by way of explaining that we are coming in a little bit in the middle. Um today's class is basically we're going to finish what we had been doing last week and then start the next the next the next step of it. We're in the middle of discussing the concept of kavana. The concept of having a certain type of intent, certain intention during davening. What we saw last week was we discussed the elevated kavana that is needed for all of all of prayer and in and in and in particular shimona esray that although we strive to have this ele elevated uh kavana for all of our davining for all the whole time that we davin it is specifically required during shimona esray and in particular we saw that it is required during the first of the of and according to many opinions for the braha of of for the Modim as well and that whereas from the Gumarra and the rishonim if a person did not have this kavana this elevated kavana during that first braha the according to the garra and according to the rishonim a person should repeat right nevertheless we saw that the rama notes that nowadays we're concerned that our ability to concentrate has gotten worse over time as opposed to better over time and we're concerned that if a person were to repeat one sray again and try to and try to correct it he again wouldn't have kavana and therefore wouldn't necessarily fix it and therefore we even if for some reason you weren't able to have kavana during the first the first you should not repeat you should continue wherever you're up to and try to have kavana from from there what kind of kavana should a person have what is this elevated kavana that a person needs to have because we've noted before that for all mitzvot there is a concept that we need a certain level of kavana we need to have in mind that we're doing the mitzvah what is the elevated kavana that a person needs when Dvening. So we discussed last week that the elevated kavana has two parts to it. One is very simply understanding the words that you are saying that we should endeavor to know when I'm saying when I say what does that mean that I'm asking God for forgiveness. When we say that should return to we should know what we're saying. That is the ba that is the elevated kavana that is needed for and in addition there is a concept of recognizing and remembering and understanding that we are standing in front of God that we need to remember. It doesn't necessarily have to be explicit kavana throughout, but it should be some kind of a latent kavana when we're domining that we're saying the words, we're having kavana for those words and a recognition that we are standing in front of. That is why much of the that we have and are really kind of a leadin to because meant to be the moment where we are literally standing in front of a kadoshu and much of what we do is meant to help prepare us for those for those moments. What I wanted to do today, what was we were meant to do at the end of last week and we'll do today is highlight a number of halot that we have specifically for Shimon Esray that are all geared towards helping us achieve this kavana. We saw the same thing with shama. We noted how shama also has an elevated concept of kavana that you have to have the concept. We're supposed to remember that we're accepting the yoke of heaven. And we mentioned that because Shan needs this elevated kavana, there are certain that we have for shama that we're supposed to cover our eyes, that we're supposed to say the puk out loud. Those are all meant to help us achieve this heightened level of kavana. The same thing is true of Schman has unique halakot geared towards it for with the purpose of helping us elevate our own sense of kavana to be able to achieve the level of kavana that we are that we are going to. Should I try without the mic? Would that be better? >> No. Okay. Okay. Fine. Okay. Good. So that's what we have right now. If you look in your source sheets uh the we said that the the heading is special for right. The first one is there is a that fora we need to stand. Okay, most of us that's very logical. We know that we know that we do that. In fact, the name that is given for in many places is what >> amid Amida because we are standing we are literally standing in front of where does this come from? So the earliest source is a medish [snorts] um in source number one where the puk describes au and the puk says that a stood alham aadam and kazal say that this was a reference to shak that a this was a reference to the shak that a had excuse me had instituted zakazal that this puk is the source for the concept that a had established of and because it says a sham continues the we also learn from here that the vision the imagery of a classic would be somebody who is standing somebody who is standing in front of and therefore that we from there we're going to conclude that that is how we are supposed to be when we when we say as well you look at source number two the Rambam already discusses this um when he discusses different aspects of source number two. There are eight things that ideally a person who is davening. Now again this means davening in general but also specifically that he needs to be careful to do even though they are ideal. If a person for whatever reason couldn't do it, he was in a situation where he couldn't do these things or he forgot or he did he ded already and he realized he didn't do it. Nevertheless, you still and what are they the and these are the following things the person should stand means we should be facing towards the mikdash right which in in or at least in America meant facing east. Many people here in Israel get confused sometimes, especially especially people from America make aliyah. You ask them where do you need to face when you're when you're domining, they always say facing east. That's true in America. In Israel is not always depends where you are in Israel. Where where should you face depends where you're standing depends where you are in Israel. That's where you should be facing. You should be facing tun just means you should have a clean body. Make sure that you are clean and properly for doning. Tikim refers to making sure that you are dressed appropriately. Now, we're not going to get into the details of what that means, but there is a concept that when you are domining, you should be dressed appropriately. Whether that means you should put on a hat and jacket or it means you should wear pants or it means you should wear a hair covering. There's different interpretations and very much depends on what we call min. But the concept of being dressed appropriately is definitely something that is there. means making sure you set yourself up in a place that is appropriate for I believe refers is referring to your voice and in terms of the tone not too loud making sure you're saying the words but you're not talking too loudly refers to bending your knees means to bow down that there are certain parts of the when you should be bend bowing down or bending your knees etc. So these says the Ram are are eight things that are ideally part of the sha experience but if you couldn't do them for some reason they're not says continues the what does that mean it means you should be standing and then he continues what happens if you're on an agala you're on a ship okay and you're and you're not on one of these like you know fancy um you know uh cruises but you're on a ship that's going shipping back and forth and and you can't really stand up. Okay. Oh, or you're on a wagon. Ideally, you should try to stand, but if not, it's not as we saw in as we already saw uh from the Rambam earlier. If you can't, you can't. If you can't, it's still okay and you can still do it. And we'll see probably the most practical application for us in this would be domining on an airplane and maybe certain people in certain context domining on a bus. We'll get to that. We'll get to that as well. Sorry. >> Sick people. >> Sick people. So for sure absolutely as well. Sick people as well. People are in bed and can't get up. Look at source number three this way as well. But the way he gives an interesting explanation for why a person needs to stand. Meaning we saw right now the context was a stood. We also I think logically understand that standing up creates a certain import to the but the gives a different different explanation as well. Look at source number three. Let's remember says of Cairo that is meant to replace the sacrifices that in many different ways part of our is a replication or a um replacement for the fact that we're not able to bring corban out nowadays. Therefore, he says you have to make sure that when you're davening, the intent that you're havinging is similar to the intention that you have in a corban. The was if a person brought a korban and he had the wrong kavanote. He he had in mind the wrong corban or he planned on eating it outside of the right time or eating it in the wrong place that could possle the entire corban. The role of kavana of having a certain intent played a very big role in the world of corbanote says the we're not going to say it in the same level but because are meant to replace kavana is going to be important we have to make sure that we have the right kavana like we saw by by by kbanote that having the wrong kavana could pos could be posel the uh the the the corban and then he says why should I stand a when a person If a person was bringing a corban or if a corba was being brought for them, they needed to stand. They would stand and they would do the smika. They would lean on the animal. They would do the vidi. So just like bringing a corban involved standing. So too when we dive in which is meant to replace corbonote, we should make sure that we are that we are standing. And then he goes on to discuss a lot of the different the other aspects of this as well. Having the right place, wearing the right clothing, all again he says it's modeled after the corbanote. Yes. >> I thought the first time when you say it's really to replicate and is to replace the >> So that's okay. So I >> really should stand every I mean I know a lot of people do stand forhat you're saying okay so so first of all in terms in terms of what what what she said was that she was under the impression that when a person says their silence that's modeling the avote and is modeling the corbot it's it that there are some who suggest that the the simple understanding is that is that when we dive in even if even our own personal fela is actually a combination of both meaning that that the mara has a has it or is it the corba in the end they say everyone agrees it's the corbaote for various different reasons but the point is is that in the end of the day it's not many many understand that there really are two aspects to aravining aravin is patterned after both the avote and the and and the corba note now in terms of what you're saying that a person should should stand for. That is true. Meaning the does say that ideally a person should stand for because the whole I mean for excuse me without getting into too much of this right now is ultimately meant to be a the is is being moy the entire board with with an additional and in fact there are many people who say not only should you stand but you should stand with your feet with your with your feet together like we're going to see soon is the min to do for for our own personal not everyone says you need to do that but ideally you definitely should be standing you shouldn't be talking you shouldn't be checking your phone all those things that we tend to do during it becomes a little bit of a break that is not the ideal we should be concentrating because the is really representing all of us and creating a salv used to call it as we've mentioned before it is a communal that is being that we're that is being represented by by by the so you you are correct about that yes repeating it for himself or for the people want to hear. >> So they the question was is the is is kazar in khazarat is he saying it for himself or for the community. The answer is he's saying it for the community. He already said his he said his private tila. There's no question that he is representing everybody. He's representing the community when he sayshat which means he needs to make sure to say it loud enough and at a pace that everyone can hear 100%. 100%. >> This is something that's come up often repeated so quickly. Agreed. Khazin should be saying the Khazin should be saying it. Again, we've talked about this before and I think ultimately there's different there's different there's different paces that work for different people and there's different types of things. What what I could hear is not necessarily something what somebody else can hear. So therefore I you know I think I'm I'm hesitant to be too critical of of a of a specific type. But you it is true that the Khazan needs to make sure that his tabore can hear and understand the words that he's saying. How fast that is. We could argue from today till tomorrow about how fast that should be and how slow that should be. But but it is true that it should be something that is heard that is heard by everybody. Okay. So in fact not only do we see in the that you should stand for but if you look at source number four the mission of Bura mentions that this is why many have the min to stand even a few seconds before. If if you pay attention to most of the min that we have is most of us don't stand up right before we stand up for example in shakers we stand up and we start to say or we have or we have kadesh by and we stand for kadesh before the idea being we shouldn't just be getting up right before the we should be standing before and then entering this moment of standing before God look at source number four Okay, like we've said that we have right at the end of the shak is right before at the end of the last when when the says then people start to stand up. The idea being we're preparing ourselves for the excuse me and when the when the got there so I guess he stood for for and force the started. Okay. Why would he stand a few seconds earlier to take those moments to calm ourselves down to prepare ourselves appropriately to be able to enter? Cuz if we just waited until the very end and there's God up and that would be that would be more that would be more of a challenge and as we're going to see soon that's also part of the reason why we have the minhug of taking three steps back or three steps forward which we'll talk about talk about in a in a minute but that's the idea. The idea being that we're preparing ourselves for formon. Now this is all the ideal. Of course as we saw in the in the Rambam if a person is unable to stand for for whatever reason then you can still be out. If you look at the source number five in the riding on a donkey you don't have to come down. Even if you have somebody who can hold your I'm assuming this is referring to somebody who's traveling a long distance. If you're just going horseback riding and you can wait till after you come down because you're there doing it for an hour an hour and a half and then you'll have time to dar then you probably should wait until you come down. We're talking about somebody who was traveling unable to come down because he's on a journey of some sort. Then that's then you can stay there and and dav in you should d as you're as you're as you're traveling as you're traveling or if you're on a ship or you're on some kind of a caravan. If you're able to stand great then you should um then you should dive in where where you are. Continuing in of the next, if you're on a ship or on a wagon, if you are able to stand up at least at certain points, you should. If you're able to take the three steps back, you should. Again, all of this is an ideal. If you're unable to do it, then then it's okay for you to dive in in your place. Um, practically the postgame as I mentioned discuss this in the context of an airplane. Okay, airplane is one of those things where people are very passionate about these things. You have some people who all of a sudden when an airplane must stand for the entire doining no matter who it inconveniences or causes. No, all of a sudden the minion is like the most important thing. We're gather in the back. We're going to gather here gets people upset. Many post games suggest that again if you're on a if you're on an airplane where it's it's let's say it's just as an example for argument sake it's an LL airplane and they understand it and they set aside an area and it's done in conjunction with the stewardism the plane test set aside then then that could be a very meaningful thing. There's no a person shouldn't forego domining with a minion for no reason. But if you're in the context where it will cause any type of inconvenience to anybody or any kind of hashem because you're standing up and standing in the hallway and it upsets the stewardes or it upsets people or it's dangerous because the the the the seat belt sign goes on. There is no question many postgress this again. I'm sure there are post maybe would push you to to still dive with a minion but many of the post that I that I have heard talk about this will say you should sit in your in your space and you should dive in. This is what I do. I don't even I don't even look for the minion personally. I dive in where I am in my place. If again I'm in a I'm on an airplane there where everybody is going to the same I don't know you're going to Oman. I have not gone to Oman but let's say you're going to Oman and the whole airplane is full of people who are all looking to do it and it won't bother anybody. That's one thing and I've had experiences like that where where the stewardist will even announce there's a minion now in the back of the airplane. Okay. If the student has announced that I'm more comfortable doing it. Uh if not you should sit I even find by the way that sometimes it's harder for me to concentrate when I'm standing up. I get more nauseous and in which case I think it's more appropriate to to sit down. You definitely should sit down. What you should do is you should try to keep your feet together. Again, try to do what you can. I even would do a little bit of my like move my feet a little bit backwards for the parts that you're supposed to go back and forth. Try to imitate what you would be doing if you were standing, but it's okay to sit down if that's the context in within which you find yourself. I think I saw a question. Yeah, >> I just had an interesting experience because I'm floating right now and I came back here last night and I wanted to at least leave one. >> Sure. >> The guys remembered me from the airport. Very very nice. But what we how we handle this and but we got together for a >> and a kadesh. >> Okay. Yes. Listen obviously and that and you are you are raising a good point which is that sometimes these contexts have to do with with with somebody who wants a minion for for reasons of kadesh and therefore it could be an emotional aspect to it or something that's very important. But even that very often you can find a way to do it in a way or you should strive to do it in a way that that will not bother or that is done in cooperation with the with the airplane. That sounds like a wonderful idea. >> We had terrible turbulence. >> Right. Right. Right. Right. Well, we're still glad that you're here even though you got back last night for for coming. Okay. Um so that is number one. Hak number one that is meant to help us increase our den is you should stand for another that is mentioned regarding that is meant to help us increase our kavana is the you should stand there with your feet together. Okay, if you look at source number uh source number six, this is mentioned in the Garra. Omar Rabiosi, sorry, turn the page. Yeah, turn the page. Source number six, Rabiosi, the son of Rabbi Khan says in the name of Ben Yakov, a person who davins should direct his feet as the Puk says and their legs were a straight leg says Rashi. What does it mean? That could just mean I should point in a certain direction. What does it mean? Rashi says zooel zoo. It means you should put your feet together. The because the p itself, how do we learn this in the pik? Because the pik says vaglem their legs regel. What changed right there? Their legs became one leg. It turned from ragle to regel. And therefore a person should stand in a way that makes it appear as if they have one regel. Now there is in the there's the rushalami seems to understand it as not putting your feet together but you're putting your feet one in front of the other. Very interesting. We're not going to get into the details of that. We that what it means is a person should should put their feet together again as a way of creating a certain aura and a certain ambiance as they are standing in front of in front of. If you look at the source number seven, he mentioned this explicitly. A person should direct or direct or guide his legs next to each other in a certain in one direction. Making it almost as if there it's one leg or one foot, excuse me. In order to appear like the says their legs were a straight leg says says the nearel that their legs appeared like one like like one leg like one foot and that is why when we're standing there in front of we're trying to almost raise ourselves up to the level of angels standing in front of God as we as we David and then the continues vom And some even add when a person gets ready to dive in. A person should take three steps forward. Why are we taking three steps forward? Because it shows that we are moving. We are bringing ourselves towards we're almost stepping into God's abode. And that's the idea of taking three steps forward. Now what interestingly enough >> sorry one second. This is this says one second. Let me just finish this one and I'll take your question. I'm going to answer your question right now. Interestingly enough, what does the shar not say? Doesn't say take three steps back and then three steps forward. So this is actually a misunderstanding. This is a misunderstanding. Before you need only to take three steps forward. Why? Cuz what are you doing? Because if you think about it, the whole purpose is we are now stepping into abode. What is the how do we do that? By taking three steps forward. Why often and and and also at at at the same time at the end of what are we supposed to do? Take three steps back. That's all you need to do in order to show that I've left my my my meeting with. So why is it that many people think we're supposed to take three steps back and three steps forward? I think it's just a practical point because if I'm standing here for David and this is where I want to end up again for how can I do that if I there's no place for me to take for me to take three steps forward. So what do you do? You take three steps back. Now you have space between you and where you want to end up. And then you take three steps forward. But let's say you're outside. Let's say you're at the hotel or let's say you're here in the shul. There is no need to take three steps back and then take three steps forward. You can simply take three steps forward. As long as you're comfortable with where you end up when you take those three steps forward, that can be where you want to do it. The same thing is at the end of when you take three steps back, you say the brahoot. That's really you don't need to take three steps forward. Many have the minhug. If you're in shul that you wait after taking three steps back, you wait until the khazin gets up to kusha and again where do you want to end up? You want to end up at your spot at your stander. So you take three steps forward to where you were and then you for for kadusha you you you you put your feet together again etc. Okay. So it's so the the three steps is what's really needed is three steps forward at the beginning of three steps back at the end of practically. Sometimes that often means going back and forth. Yes. >> Does it having to do also with shuffling yuraba when you're you could say it makes sense that before you start you are it's up and then you want to go start. >> So I I had so I had I had heard when we're actually going to get to shuckling soon. That's also one of the things that's an interesting conversation about should a person shuckle or not. We'll get to that in a second. Shuckling meaning going like this. Right. Okay. Now um I had never heard that. Again, it could be. I've never heard that idea before that the idea is is that you take three steps back for like, you know, your out of fear and then ava. Again, you look here, he only mentions the three steps forward. And I think that's points to this idea that the goal is we're taking three steps forward to show we're entering God's abode. We're entering that meeting with again practically very often it just and means in order to do that, they have to take three steps back. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. Okay. Look at look at uh one second. Let me just see. Yeah. The next thing is if you look at if you look at source number seven bet now we're going to get to the third idea. So, so far we've seen you need to stand, you need to have your feet together. The kazal also discuss the way that a person should stand the the the mode that a person should have. You're going to see right look at source. Look at source number seven. How should a person put their hands? Where should he be looking with his mind with his head? Says the a person should bend his head down a little bit as a sign of like humility. It's almost pointing your eyes towards the ground. Again, a sign of humility. You should feel as if you are standing in the mikdash in front of in your head. You should be thinking about ding towards towards. So the idea is again we're going to see this in a second. I think if you look at see if gimmel they even describe or suggest how a person's hands should be okay. You should have your hands like this and says what's actually your right hand on your left hand. I'm a lefty so I'm usually doing it like this automatically. Okay. But you should the does say ideally the way that a person should stand is with your hands like this on your heart again in a sign of humility remembering that the purpose of is for us to be standing in front of a and recognize that we're standing in front of the bore. The way that we stand and the way that we are will impact some of that mentality. continues and you should stand like a servant in front of his king with fear and you should have fear and you should have you know again three different words of of fear. You should be you should be scared or you should be cons we should be serious is the best way to say it and to put your hands on over here on your side is considered to be yara it's it's not necessarily appropriate for standing in front of the king. Now that is how the describes ideally says the Mishna Bur that much of this really depends on the way that people usually stand in front of a king. Some of this is what we were called based on the min. If you look at source number source number eight the second paragraph in in in in the in the in the the source number eight when when should you stand like this with your hands over your heart? When is it appropriate to stand in front of a front of with your hands on your heart like this? If that's how people usually stand when they walk in front of a king asking the king for the things that they need. If we're in a society where the way that you deal with royalty is, you know, slap him. No, I don't think you should do that. But but if it's morbal to stand in a more at as we would say at ease type of of way and that's what's considered appropriate when you were to go to a leader or a ruler and ask him for the things then it would be okay for you to do that here. Again a lot of this has to do with because the per ultimately what's the purpose? The purpose isn't to show God something. The purpose is to create a certain covenant within ourselves a certain intent and understanding within ourselves. So if we're if in most places if we were to go to the king, we would stand there like this and ask him for something, that's how we would stand, then we should do the same thing for Hashem. But if doing that won't necessarily help create that mindset in us because that's not how we usually go when we talk to leaders and ask them for things. So then we can be a little bit more at ease and be more comfortable because ultimately it's about trying to create a certain mentality within our own within our own our own our own minds. There's a whole conversation here as well uh about about keeping your eyes closed, keeping your eyes open. That's also a big a big discussion. Should a person close their eyes when they're standing when they're diving H1 sray or maybe they should open them and look at the seedur and and this kazal basically say the post can basically say whichever one gives you more kavana. Whichever one will give you the most amount of kavana that's what you should do. For some people closing their eyes helps them concentrate. But there's also other for other people closing their eyes makes it more likely that their their mind is going to go elsewhere. But if they're looking at something they're looking at the words and they're focusing on the words that'll help them concentrate. So everybody can should really try to find that right proper medium that works that works for them. >> What is the source for what you've just said? It says >> which one >> that you can do whatever you want which is more comfortable for you. Ah, so so that's uh I don't I don't have that here, but that's that's something that the postgame discuss in the context I'm talking about specifically in the context of of using a sitter versus versus Yeah, I didn't I didn't bring that here, but I can try to find it for you. And uh okay, but if you look at source number nine, look at source number nine. This is where the highlights idea in the way that we were just describing it. It's it's not necessarily in the context of of of using a sitter versus not, but he is discussing the idea of what will help you in kavana. Adam Shimaz people's nature are not the same. There are some people that standing like this will help them concentrate and there are some people that standing like this will be uncomfortable for them and it won't help them concentrate. There are some people who have trouble holding their hand will have trouble concentrating if they have to put their hand on top of their hand on top of their heartender rather they prefer to put their hands on their stander like this. Okay, everybody is different. Oh, or on something else. That's that's that's by the wall. The there is no set rule. Even though the does mention a recommendation based on what used to be the best way for a person to achieve this. Everybody should do what will help them. And again, we have to be honest about these things. What will help them achieve? Although that that kind of answers your question because it wasn't talking specifically about using a sitter versus closing your eyes. But in the context of how your hands should be and where and how you should cap how you should present yourself, much of this has to do with what will help you achieve that level that level of of of kavana. Okay. Um one or two more and then and then and then I want to get to uh to some the other part that we were supposed to do today which is talking about suggestions for for helping achieve kavana in in in general. So this is the question. Should we shuckle or should we stand still? Should a person stand like this when they're domining or should a person go like this or should they go like this? Right? Or if you see people going like that, right? There's so many different ways that people will do this. Some people dance and this that what is the way that a person should how should they be when they when they're domining and we're talking specifically now about because again remembering this is meant to be the pinnacle of our that is when the we are standing in front of Hashem. The Rama in source number 10 suggests the following. Those who are those who are very careful have the to move or what we would call shuckle that they would chuckle when they're reading the Torah. They would go like this back and forth similar to when the Torah was given. We were trembling and just like Amish trembled when the Torah was given. So too, these people shake a little bit when they when the Torah is being read. And the same thing is true. Many people have the min that when they're dvening, they go like this. They shuckle. They do this. And what's that based on? Because the Puk says again, this isn't this isn't the source, but it's a hint to it. The says, we say this in all of my bones will talk about you or or will talk to you, Hashem, who is like you. So that references the idea that we're supposed to use our entire body when we are engaged in the act of in the act of okay the here in source right right after source number 10 the second paragraph notes that not everyone agrees that you should be that you should shuckle and there are some people who argue on this it's not appropriate for you to shuffle back and forth Okay. And then he says some people say you should many post say you shouldn't. And then the Mishna Bura says the line that is most important for us. Everyone if you did this way it could be good. If you did that way it also could be good. It depends on you. Once again, if the shuckling helps you concentrate, then you should shake, then you should chuckle. And then he says, if not, if standing straight will help you give you because it enables you to to get into a meditative state and it helps you focus more, then that's what you should do. And then he says, Okay. He says, but to do it exaggerated forms of moving around. He says that's a little bit almost inappropriate. It turns the feel almost into a bit of a joke. He calls it a bit gava. So shuckling if it helps you is great. If it doesn't help you, that's also great. Each of these again are meant to be tools to help us achieve kavana. And we should do whatever whatever works for us. Yes. And this again but this is all cover and the person saying it >> correct. What is the role of kaban for repeating things like is it for themselves >> specifically for khazarat >> specific to bring >> well again is the idea is is the is saying that on behalf of all of us and it's a for all of us and it happens to be specifically there we're using the concept of we're hearing him say theot we're saying to the and it's as if we as a community said this he represents all of us now how he can't have kavana for us he has kavana for himself we have to be paying attention and listening and having kavana in the same way in order to ensure that we're able to uh be a part of it but >> he have to say it in a way that can >> absolutely and that's what we talked about he has to he has to have in mind that he's being moti them they have to have in mind that they're being yay with him and he must make sure that he's saying it in a way that everyone can hear agreed Those who don't do that, it's problematic. >> They do blah blah blah, >> then it's problematic. They shouldn't do blah blah blah. >> I agree with you. I agree with you. Okay. The next aspect connected to our understanding or what is meant to help us in our achieve a higher level of is the idea of not holding certain things. We shouldn't be holding certain things during schwanes. And this is something we're going to get we're going to get to hopefully the beginning of this the end of today's class and focus on a lot more on next week which is various suggestions to help improve our own our own level of kavana. So the so here as well the garra even talks about that a person when they are dominating or sanctuary should not hold anything that is of considerable value because if you hold something which if you were to drop would break you're not going to be able to properly concentrate while you're dovvening because you're constantly going to be thinking about what you're holding. Another good example of what you shouldn't be holding and laav deal but it's also important would be holding a baby. Okay. Can a person hold a baby in sichoness right? Now again I'm all for husbands trying to give their wives time off during the dur during the morning or whatever it's going to be. Ideally that should not be during doinvening. Ideally should not be during doining. Ideally that should be another time find time to do and find and maybe take time out of something else to give your wife time off during but you should not be holding your baby. Again this actually it's actually an interesting discussion. What if you're wearing one of those things called a baby bejorn where you can hold the baby but you're not going to be nervous about it. There the says maybe it's maybe it's okay or alternatively it could be the baby's going to be distracting. So these are different anything which will interrupt your distract will interrupt your kavana should not be held during during during ding. Look at source number 11. I'm sorry >> or anybody else >> somebody else's kavana. >> Oh absolutely and goes of course if bringing the baby will will cause will will will disrupt other people's kavana that goes without saying. That goes without saying and that's something you should be very sensitive to. We talked about that also how we saw I think it was last week or two weeks ago that the was very very about people who bring their bring their children to shul something that and and although there is two different people of are two different minds on this issue whether it's good to try to bring kids to help teach them to have decorum or you should wait until they're old enough and then bring them to sh one thing's for sure you should you have a responsibility not just to help with your children's decorum but with your neighbors decorum and you should make sure that if you do bring your children if it's only if they are able to say and if they don't even in the middle and your kid starts crying, the says you should get up, leave your take your kid out and then continue where you are because you have a responsibility towards the to create a certain sense of decorum. Yes. >> Chavez hopefully. What do rabbis today say about holding a cell phone. >> Ah, we'll get to that. We'll get to that. We're going to get to that. We'll get to that in one second. That's that's the end. It's the end. It's the end here. Yes. The pisk chuvos meaning the mishnab wasn't talking about using a cell phone. The shar wasn't talking about using a cell phone. The pisket chuva which is a more modern a more modern um um um pose does discuss the idea of and he's not even talking about using there's two two different ways to look at this which is holding your phone in your pocket holding your phone in your hand there's also the level of using your phone for all of those are are separate questions we'll get to it we'll get to it in one second but just let's just see the main the main source number 11 when a person you shouldn't be holding Meaning obviously you can wear your fillin but you shouldn't be holding your fillin bag let's say oraferesh or any kind of safer something that you'd be nervous to drop or a plate full of food or money or a knife anything which you would be careful not to drop you're going to have to have a certain amount of kavana it's going to you're going to be you're going to be thinking about it whether you realize it or not subconsciously as you're dvening and you should not be holding these things because your your mind is going to be thinking about making sure that these don't fall vitra vitel and that's going to take away from your kavana then he says what about alulv interesting question alulv now again lul love usually we hold only forestra I mean only for hal okay but there I've even seen this I've seen many people in my community I have an agricultural community and they tend to like to hold the lul of they come in suka zimra holding their lul of an esro they're holding the lul of an esro they hold a little of esrog for all of am I allowed to if I want to so this he says is okay. Why? Because since you're involved in the mitzvah of lul, we're less nervous about it preventing you from because it's part of what you're doing is being involved in the mitzvah and the sim of davening and of holding your lula, which is an interesting interesting take. Yes. [snorts] >> And not >> correct. So that those people who don't take their love when they're domining but towards the end of start taking everything out making noise and you can't hear anything. Correct. Ideally what the sh should do is part of why they do that is because they want to make sure that by the time the the starts hal they're ready. Okay. So what ideally what every should do is after give people a minute or two those who want to go out and say the brak those have to get their stuff ready and then it gives people time to take everything out 100% again we always need to be sensitive to the people around us not to not to disrupt them >> during khazarats no one should safer >> um that is brought down again there's different opinions about that most believe that you should absolutely not be not not be learning something during kazarats and some people even say I even I was even I didn't see this inside my my brother-in-law told me this that he said that anyone who does Not only did you did you not would you not do the right thing, but the learning you you don't even get credit for the learning that you did during that time because you because again at that time is when we're supposed to be focusing on other things. I can't say I'm always great about it. Sometimes I'm pressured or I'm not paying attention and I and I do it but we shouldn't be. Yes. >> Let's say you put your hand in your hand pocket like a man uh would uh and then you find on the book. >> Ah [laughter] okay. Then she wrap it under the blow. >> Again, well that that's that's a separate question regarding mukta. Let's say if you realize the halak does say if you realize in the middle you have something in your pocket that's mtaha you don't have to get rid of it right away. If you took it out in your hand you might have to then go do something with it. But let's say you realize oh my gosh I have my car well car keys depend if if there's house keys on it. It might not be a problem. I don't want to get into all of the the different but the answer is if you need to take care of something because it's urgent or either halically or practically you do what you need to do but but you should ideally be paying attention. You're right. We do we're absent minded. We do things that we shouldn't be doing, but we're talking about the ideal and the things that we be we should be striving for. Let's get to cell phones. Let's get to cell phones. Look at source number 12. Okay. Now, again, this is an interesting thing. I think this was written, this was written before we were even talking about smartphones. I don't even think we're talking about smartphones. I think this is talking about when we're talking about those Nokia phones or what we call nowadays stupid phones, right? The phones that all they did was ring and play Snake. That was all they did. Okay, those of you know what Snake is. Okay, look at source number 12. George says the piskuish is is is a modern day written on the he's quoting the the underlying part is quoting the you shouldn't hold a knife you shouldn't hold money or bread because if you do it's going to take away from your pointed out that really you can take anything certainly not something that you're afraid is going to fall the what's the reason what's the problem with not holding something so if the issue is that you're afraid it's going to fall is going to take away from your kavana those who say you shouldn't even hold anything even something which is not so valuable what's the idea it doesn't it's not appropriate that you're standing in front of holding even if it's just you know a piece of paper it's not appropriate if you're going to be standing there with something with something in your And we're in source number 12, the third line. This is an interesting question. What if it's hanging on my neck? Okay, I have one of those. I don't know. I have some kind of something or I the example that I'm thinking of is many people when they when they go on hikes, so they have those things that you can put your your your phone into like a special a special teak that you could put a waterproof thing that you put your phone into and you and it has a thing that you put on around your neck. Can I dive in with that hanging around my neck? I'm not worried it's going to fall. So biscuit is suggesting and saying even if you're not worried that it's going to fall is that is that is that the way to approach maybe you should take take it off and put it down because standing in front of Hashem with these things again I don't think there's a there's a there's a hard fast rule but the sensitivity here is very very important. So even if you have something hanging from your oh just turn my page one second or it's on your shoulder then you should take it off and there because it's not appropriate to stand in front of important people. Let's say you have a knapsack. Can should I dive in with a knapsack on my shoulder? Most of us would admit that that's not necessarily the most appropriate way to stand in front of Hashem and to dive in. Cuz when you stand there with your knapsack, what are you showing? I'm ready to go. RIGHT. I'M READY TO GO. I'm going to do this. I'll do what I need to do. I'm But I'm ready to I'm ready. I'm ready to go. Or or a camera hanging around your neck. All of these things, but it's not necessarily not necessarily appropriate. Now look to the third paragraph. Telephone. Now we see from here how serious it is problematic it is to have your phone on you when you're domining. Number one if it's going to ring if you didn't put if you didn't quiet it the will make a noise it'll bother you it'll bother the rest of the rest the rest of the for sure. Okay so first of all it might disrupt other people. Okay. Now, if you look at the we're in the third paragraph, the third line, the middle of the line, it also when you walk in with your phone, if the chancellor's going to ring or even just using your phone, it's causing a bit of a disgrace to the to the to the base metric to the shul. The shul isn't a place where it should be we should be checking the sports scores. Okay, we'll get to that in a second. He's talking about where you're using it where where where either you're having it and he's I believe again I'm not sure when he's writing this. He's writing this before there was a smartphone. I think he's talking about before there was a time when people used their phones for domining and I want to get to that in a second. He's talking about and I would say many of us many of us when we're in sh are not using our phones for domining. I'm not at least I'm when do I ever use my phone for adopting? I and I was someone who had a tough time using my phone for adopting. I felt that it was going to desensitize me. But when do I often do that? If I'm if I'm on a tulle or I'm here and I find myself if I'm here in shu I would suggest again everyone could do what they feel is most appropriate. I would suggest if you're in shul better not to use your phone just on the chance that it might somehow distract you because it's a lot easier to do something else when you're when you're on your phone and you should use a sitter. But I think he's even talking at a time when all the phone did was you could call somebody or you could maybe text. I don't think he was referring to times when the sitter was the the the the phone was used for anything else. So then he says even if you put it on on on the mode of that it's going to vibrate. Okay. It's in your pocket and it's going to vibrate. It won't destroy it won't disrupt anybody else. But who will it disrupt? You. Okay. If having your phone in your pocket when it vibrates it might distract you cuz you have to check who it is might be an emergency of of course I'm I'm being playful. Sometimes there are emergencies, but most of the time there's no emergency. Okay? Or how many times have you had this? I I've had this as well where the phone is in my pocket. It doesn't even vibrate, but it's what's called a phantom vibrate where I feel like my leg is moving and I think it's going I'm like touching it. Even that just distracts me. When you have the phone on you, it will inevitably cause some kind of distraction somehow. And just like we're not supposed to hold things when we dive in that might distract us. That same thing says the pisket chuvos. The same thing would be using using your phone. Now what what could you do? The most ideal thing to do and again I'm not saying this from experience. I wish I could say that I did this is leave it outside of the shul. Leave it in your car when you come into shul. I don't know how many of us are capable of doing this but I'm going to throw it out there as an ideal. Leave it outside of shul. Again we're not talking about a case where you need it. Leave it outside of shul. Leave it somewhere else. Okay you can't do that. put it next to you face down in a way that can't that that you can't that you won't look at it during dominant. Okay. I remember think I remember I remember hearing an important point that resonated with me in a different context but very much resonates with me regarding this. I think the person who said this it was a video I believe his name was Simon Sink who's very wellknown I don't know if I pronounced his name right. So he's like a well-known uh he industrial psychologist talks about leadership and how people can and discuss trying to help CEOs and leaders of companies be able to create the proper environment for their in their in their institutions or in their or in their companies. [snorts] And he's talking about the use the dangers of a cell phone and he said let's say let's say let's say you're holding your phone and someone comes up to you and says hey uh you know Yasi can can I talk to you for a few minutes? There's two ways that you could respond. One way they could respond is they come to me I'm holding my phone and they they say Yassi can I talk to you for a few minutes? They say, "Sure, what's going on?" That's one way I can have the conversation. But what if he said they come to me and they say, "Yussie, can I talk to you for a talk to you for a few minutes?" And I go like this. I put it in my pocket or I put it away. And then I say, "Sure. What's going on? What message did I give that person >> that right now the most important thing for me is what you're about to say to me?" When we hold the phone in our pocket or we hold the phone right over here or we put the phone over here, there's a certain even if subconscious concept of I'm there but I'm not fully there. If we leave the phone outside of the room, we leave the phone over here. We leave the phone in a way where we know that it'll be very hard for us to get distracted. The message that we are sending to and to ourselves is right now I'm in I'm fully in. This is important to me and therefore again we have to think about these things and everyone should make their own decision now regarding using the phone for doveting. It is a wonderful thing that technology is also able to be used for these types of things and as I mentioned I had a trouble I didn't I refuse to download the app the sitter app for a number of times I said I don't want to ever use my phone for domining because I'm afraid that I'll just it'll the slippery slope I'll use it for domining and then all of a sudden in the middle of domining I'll you know I'll I'll I'll start doing this and start doing that. But there were times where because of that I didn't have a sitter and I and I and I caved and I do it and and I do use it at times for dovening. What I would suggest is if you do use it for doing, what you should make sure to do is put on airplane mode. Put it on some kind of science in a way where you're going to ensure 100% that you are not going to get distracted. Now let let's be honest, even if it's on airplane mode, there are still plenty of things we could do on our phone that will distract us without it. And therefore, we have to be vigilant, right? It's very hard to make sure that you're not going to do anything else when you're just using it for doping. We can do it. We're capable. We're adults. We can do it. But you have to be very very vigilant. I would suggest that even if you use your phone for domining. It should only be where you had no other choice because of the fact that we that we could very easily go into doing other things, especially during kazarata shots or while we're waiting or whatever else is going on. But again, that's a personal choice. I just leave that for you to for you to for you to think about. Okay, we have only a couple of minutes and we're now getting to the very end. This is going to be our last this section and next week we're going to finish this which is getting into discussing more suggestions for improving improving kavana meaning get practical. We've been discussing the different levels of kavana. We've been discussing the different levels of kana needed for shama and for and the are associated with each of them as a result of this higher level of kavana that is needed. And the last thing that we're going to do is just list and it's going to be a bit of a detailed list that I would like to to work through with you. Different suggestions that I've been able to glean from various of ways that we can improve our kavana in a practical way because we talked about how important it is. What can we do? Okay. So, we even talked today a little bit about it. What we use we surround ourselves with. We'll highlight it. We'll highlight it again. The first thing I just want I just want to mention is the first we'll just do the first two sources right over here and and then and then we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll do this next week. Revmon in his safer has a safer on source number 13 he stresses something very important many people come in and say I want to have how do I do it says the most important thing to remember isotav there's no school you can't just you know say something or jump up and down or clap your hands this isn't one of those magical things where you just do x and all of a sudden you're going to have kavana kavana like many things in yahad takes work Nothing is going to all of a sudden turn us into people who can have it requires work. Without that effort, we cannot have proper kavana. Look at source number 14 and this will end says of steinelt a similar idea but he highlight he takes it a step further. Even though there is no magical formula that applies to everyone, there are ways to achieve kavana. Each person's soul is a unique world unto itself and what works for one person is not necessarily effective for another. Nevertheless, there are some pieces of advice that are likely to be useful to some extent for some people. And that is what we're going to do next week is get into some of those areas of advice. Everybody is different. We're going to throw out ideas and each of us can take for ourselves what we feel will help us in our Cavana. Okay. Wishing everybody a wonderful, wonderful week.