I did the Holy Pokey, But I Turned Myself Around | Rabbi Ari Kahn | Sep 17 2026

listeners who actually occasionally translates the sherim that I give into Hungarian and puts it up in for his community there. >> And uh >> that's where he lives. So his name is Gabbor Zer. I really hope I'm pronouncing it right. I hope he's not going to be mad at me. So uh he has the site for his mother Arab Kipper. So he asked that we uh have the share in his mother's memory. Miriam Bat Abraham. So I I warned you a couple of weeks ago and nonetheless you're here. here. I told you I was going to do it. So now I just have to kind of keep my word. So in case anybody actually looked at the sources that I gave and I and I apologize for there being far too many pages and uh indeed we called this I did the hokeyp pokei but I turned myself around multiple perspectives on chuva essentially from heaven community and self. So I hope that we understand that each one of those elements could be a shar unto itself which means how does God look upon a balcha how is a balcha supposed to look upon himself how does a community look upon the balcha so what we're going to see is that there are I think three different perspectives is there overlap there's certainly interesting overlap but there are nonetheless there are three different perspectives and just to try to lay out some of the parameters for what we're going to do. I'm going to be extremely Rambam centric. Maybe that feels natural. May maybe for a lot of us when we speak about Chuva, the Rambam is the go-to book. But there there are other books and if I would have done a little bit of uh picking and choosing a little Rambam, a little Romaniona, a little bit of the Rayak then you know round it out with a little bit of salvic and a little bit of Hutner, a little bit of Israel Salanter and again I can keep on going over here. So essentially what I would have done then is probably have given a typical uh Chuvashier but I I I don't want to do that. What what I want to do is what I'm going to say I I hope is going to be very true in the Rambam and that's one of the reasons why you have so many sources because I didn't want just like a half a line here and a half a line there even though I'm not going to read everything today. So that's the first thing. Second thing is that the Rambamu and again this is more than it's really necessary for today but the Rambamuva as much as I can tell had no basis in terms of structure in terms of an earlier work again if you're the Rambam and you want to write your own book and you want to write your book about all of Torah Shabbala. So they're going to be certain things which are going to be easier and certain things which are going to be harder and even the easier things the Rambam is then nonetheless very creative. So therefore if I were the Rambam and I wanted to write let's say I want to start working on Shabbat. So I'm probably going to first look at the Mishnaote of Shabbat and look at all the toa and then look at all the sugot and maybe even breaking it down like that. Did it make sense? You just learn the sugot. But I think that that if I want to look for structure, a sugu we know is very fluid and you can start one it moves to a second point and then it slides over to a third point. The mission is a little bit more organized than the garra is. So if I'm trying to create structure, maybe the mission is the best way to do it. And the Ram the Ram certainly uses it. Again, he wrote his parish on Mishna, but his Mishna Torah ends up becoming this really creative, wellthoughtout structural genius in terms of how how you build what you build. So again, if I'm going to do the laws of matzah, which by the way is interesting has both and then it has all the things about the Corbin Pes, the Ram puts those in different books. So the laws of Corbin Pak are in one book and the laws of another book. One is in holidays, the other is going to be when we deal with corbonote and abod and so on and so forth. So again the Rambam structuring things is really interesting but there is no structure to hilot there is no Mishnaote on hilot. So over here the rambom again looks at politicula and says okay let me builds 10 chapters and of the 10 chapters what may be surprising is that not all 10 chapters even speak about chuba like straight off there are chapters of the 10 that don't speak about chuba. So I'm I'm not going to start showing off now and go through chapter after chapter what each one does and what each one says. But uh I can assure you that you probably have approximately 30% that don't talk about. So that's that's interesting. The whole side point in the middle where he decides that oh is really important. Let's just go off on a tangent about because if you don't have free will then how can we talk about taking responsibility for what you've done. And then the last chapter he moves on completely towards aavatashem which is on the one hand I guess the goal of chuva but on the other hand also serves as the wonderful introduction or it's the end of book of of having to do with knowledge deot and introduction to the book of aava. So it it serves there as a dual purpose and again the rabam is really interesting in a footnote in alachuva the rav imagines that well he tells that would learn during mituva one each day and he imagined that was why the raom had 10 chapters I don't know what to tell you but I'm sure there are lots and lots of people that ever since they saw that footnote said oh that's a good thing to do every year why not learn the a chapter day of huva during chuva so wonderful that's that's certainly a nice thing to do and maybe it was further the reason why I found myself completely in the in hillam during these last couple of days. So let let's let's begin and I'm going to start just so that we all make sure that we have our structure. I'm going to start and talk about God. And the reason I'm going to talk about God is because if you don't speak about God then there's no such thing as truva. Without God, then what you have is rehabilitation. From point A to point B, I did this. And from point B to point C, I did this. I changed my behavior. Changing behavior is not exactly the same thing as chuva. So therefore, I can take any realm in the world, including something which would be a sin, something which would be inappropriate, something which would be bad behavior. And who am I? I am a combination of the bad behavior and the good behavior. I did the bad and I did the good and I stopped doing the bad. But that's I'm rehabilitated. I'm not it's not like the bad isn't there. My biography clearly includes both of them. So when I look at the Rambam's very first gesture in terms of chuva and that is not in the 10 chapters. That's the introductions of the 10 chapters and that's source number one. There's one positive commandment. Um, full disclosure, I've given a whole shear, whole hour on that one line. And that's because that one line is much richer than I think that we realize. And I just want to break down every word. The first thing is you need actually to have returned which means first thing is you need to stop what you're doing which means the person is still involved in sin. Pick your favorite sin whatever that sin is. If you're still doing it, then you can't speak about that having to do with the performance of chuva. But who the next really interesting thing is the Rama makes a value judgment which maybe a lot of psychologists, teachers, and parents today wouldn't like. No, he's a good child who does horrific things, right? No, the Ram says, "If you have been doing sins, what are you? You are a sinner." So he labels that the sinner again returns and stops doing the sin again. Take my two time frames. Time frame A, you're doing this terrible thing, but now you stop, which means the sinner has to have stopped the sin that they're doing. And then he adds two words which are really interesting in front of God. And that is what changes it from rehabilitation to chuva because without God, a person could look in the mirror and say, you know, you're an idiot. How can you keep on doing this? Again, if you want to take a case of infidelity, person can say, you know, what a terrible thing that I'm doing and uh why would I want to, you know, risk, you know, my my my my marriage and risk the respect my children have for me and risk all kinds of things. You're an idiot. So, that's just between themselves. So, that I would say I would call that rehabilitation and changing a behavior pattern. But that doesn't in any way or possibility can change the past. So, Hashem and again that's to wax a little bit more poetic or even theologically uh rigorous I can say hashem is specific and that's the word and that's the term which is used in kipper hashem over here is yudk as was pointed out I think I quoted last week in a different context the shora as the shora points out that yudk is hoy it is god who was is and will be which means it's god who transcends time so therefore if I stand in front of god who transcend sense time and I and I say, you know, I reject what I've done in the past. God could erase because the time is irrelevant. This is God outside of time. And then he adds one more word v and one needs to verbalize all of this. It's not enough if it's a thought. It's not enough if it's a feeling. It's something which needs to be actually part of the concrete world. And again, we can talk as we did last time about talking. But nonetheless again you note each one of these world words over here is very very uh specific. There are huge debates about what is the mitzvah ultimately is the mitzvah the chuva is the mitzvah the stopping is the mitzvah of being in front of god is the mitzvah actually the vidoy. So just for example the mitzvah says there's no mitzvah of chuv there's only mitzvah of voy. So he may get a little uh and there's reasons why he says this but he nonetheless may have carried away a little bit. And if you want to know what the first chapter is, the first chapter the Brahman does something which is again theologically breathtaking. He kinds of starts inside the beta mikdash and then he takes chuva outside of the realm of corbanote into the realm of a world without corbonote. Which means how does this still work? Even though we'll note that most corbanote vast majority of corbanote don't work for things which are done deliberately. They only work for things that have been done accidentally you know at most. But nonetheless, Chuva can work in all kinds of rebellions, mistakes, and uh and so on. So, we'll pause there for a moment in source number two, which is chapter one, and he starts off. And now, when we don't have a betach, that's exactly the flow. When you had a betach, you had again in the mikdash, you have the coing, you have the you have all kinds of things which could be done, but now we don't have any of that. So we don't have any other way of achieving atonement. And by the way, the first chapter of is very much more about atonement than it is about. So therefore, how do you achieve atonement? And he says which means atonement that means day of atonement that that y that that chuva can affect atonement. Even somebody who's been wicked entire life and he does tru at the very end that all of his wickedness is no longer now what is masirin is he's not caused to remember now who's who's in masirin is this himself is this heaven is this the neighbors is this the community which means one thing that we're told is chuva works we're told that chuva brings about atonement It does atonement primarily impact the relationship between man and God, man and himself, man and his fellow man. So that maybe you even have a thought about that already, but that's that is significant. Um in source number three, the Rambam writes, "Even if a towards the towards the end of a if somebody sinned was wicked and at the very very end of their lives they changed, right? all of his sins are forgiven. And he says that's the point of death. That means that chuva is something which can erase even in that last moment as opposed to what the brain said earlier. What is chuva? A person finds himself in the same situation. All of that is nice but ultimately not essential. Inabet the Rambam writes about the person who has who has decided to do chuva and stops their sin again the sinner stops their sin and eradicates the thoughts in their minds and takes it out of their hearts and until the point until the knower of all secrets testifies the person will never return to this again. So it's interesting because a component of chuva is not just in front of God but it's in front of God to the extent that God is now a participant in in in chuva to the extent that God now testifies as some of you are going to be really upset they say hold it this was a shar para shabua you know what happened so I'll just note that hazenu points out where Moshe will call upon heaven and earth to uh to bear testimony so over here we have that part of uh the process of chuva is one of uh that that god bears testimony. And and again, it's interesting. God talks about the future, but presumably because of his knowledge of the future, then acts of the past somehow get erased. We're going to we're going to we're going to pause here for a second. There's certain aspects I want to come back to, but first I want to skip to source number four. And in In source number four, the raam writes and here is going to be the perspective from heaven. Peragan is a breathtaking chapter and the part of the challenge for us is going to be that it is so good. It is so upbeat. It is so positive and then to try to figure out so where does all this fit in? And for us if we're keeping three different sections over here and we want to know hold it you know what is the perspective of heaven here the Rambam reveals what is taking place in heaven of course you can challenge and ask how does he know this how does Ram know anything the Rambom after mastering all of it's important because the I think what's sometimes underappreciated the Rambam is the verses that he cites but the Rambam over here says again notice The person who sinned is the the person who's done chuva is the chuva. Okay. So now the personality has changed. Now he has taken upon a new uh identity. Don't think that he is distanced from the level of the righteous because of the things he did in the past. That's not the case. He's beloved and he is cherished from the creator. I I also think it's uh important the Rambam calls God here the creator. He could have said but the creator I I would go so far as to say that maybe even a term to use for chuva. Again the English is always difficult repentance return renewal. I think maybe I would even be tempted to because of this to call it a recreation that the person is being recreated and the term over here I think is very telling as if he's never sinned. So those of you Reena who wanted to question before how you know where did I get this from is if the sin is erased completely over here the raam is saying from the perspective of God it's also you can say no it did but it's not which means he's on the same level of who's never sinned and he writes he has an exceedingly high amount of reward because for him sin was not just an abstract thought it was a lived reality. and he separated for this and there is this struggle in terms of conquering his uh his inclination and this is an echo of the mission there's also which is the more difficult that something is the more reward is attached to it he goes so the ra is deliberately comparing the baluan this new creation this person has a new relationship with the creator and he says that this person is no worse off than a sadic. He receives more reward and in fact the level that he has achieved or attained is one where the truly righteous cannot. And again very much sounds that the ra is going after this that in order to be on this level they've had to climb a much steeper hill. It was something which again is with the experience of sin which was not just a possibility. It was a choice which they've made. And the rambump seems to be speaking about this individual as uh ganandanda seems. person is on a higher level and he continues and I want to skip to the chuva is so great or if you were from California you would say here awesome chuva is so awesome that it brings somebody close to the come back right this is a So chuva really is ultimately about the relationship which means sin is therefore ultimately about a lack of relationship with God the severing of the relationship. Chuva is the fixing of that relationship but God cherishes that relationship and he continues and and the rabbam is so striking in its in its poetry and its intimacy. He writes It brings those far away close just last night. He was hated again here. It's not liber. That's very strong language. This person was despised. This person was distant. He's beloved. Cherished close. Vadid a friend again who who talks this way and uh the Rambam the the Rambam writing about again all this is not in the first second third or fourth or fifth or sixth chapters chapter 7 is where the Rambam speaks like this and again we could read more about this and perhaps it's worthwhile to but nonetheless I think you very much get the idea the Rabum continues in s source Sorry. In again right over here and he says just yesterday he was separated from God. It is your sins that separated. So he would scream and not be answered and he would dovote and God would rip up the mitzvot of the sinner. Who asked you for this? You know, and now again this person has with the so now he screams and [clears throat] immediately God responds before you even scream out to me I'll answer. And now this person does mitzvot and God accepts them with how do you want to translate with joy go God he he anticipates looks forward to these mitzvot so I'm going to say it again the the perspective of chuva from heaven's perspective is one of something which is transformative rebirth recreation the individual who was wicked and labeled deliberately labeled a wicked individual is now labeled a person who is God's confident God's friend the relationship is one which is intimate and he not only that this person is on a higher level of somebody who has achieved a life of of purity because they never crossed over that side to a world of sin and this person because of the mountain that he's had to climb and the and the temptations that they've had to work through they are considered to be much closer to God and I'll say all of this again perhaps is uh is uh is surprising but again all all this is really quite clear in the Rambam's description. Nonetheless in the very next law the Rambam moves over and this is the disconnect and he moves over back to the Balua. Now, how should the Baltu feel? And I want to stress something. Not just how should he feel, how should he feel having just read the Ramba, which means he should now feel somewhat self-satisfied, somewhat proud, somewhat accomplished because look what I've done. I used to be this, but I'm not. And that's all that that that's the race. That's not me anymore. And in the very next law, the next breath, the Rambam writes, They have to be extremely extremely modest. How do you want to say? How do you want to translate that? Uh it's uh they should feel low. Now we go to the others. But if others fools say about them, by the way, the same yesterday you were you know you used to do this and this don't pay attention to them. That the humiliation that you undergo by the person reminding you is part of your new status of being this balu. that the fact that you so it's fascinating the Ram saying that God has forgotten all this but someone else won't let you forget this and because you haven't forgotten it you are humiliated because of this or your humiliation is causing you to achieve a higher level and we just now got a hint about this complicated relationship taking place between God and between man and between community It's an absolute sin for others to remind him of his sin or to remind him of this in order to embarrass him. All of this is not allowed as it says. Now just in case we think for a moment that this is a random statement of the Rambam in terms of so what should the attitude of the Baltua be in terms of himself the Rabam moving back to the second chapter in he writes in source number three which is So the person who did chuva the bouva should always crying and pleading. So God has acts as if he has forgotten the past and the individual has to act as if he has not forgotten the past again has to become somebody else. So I'm going to skip a little about this. He he speaks about how it's positive for the baluva to acknowledge sins that he did to other people and say listen I've done this and you know you should know what I've done but and he qualifies this as but what's more interesting to me is right at the very end of source three if there were sins that you did one year and you said you should come back and say vidori again the following year even though he has never slipped back during the year and this is also fascinating which means again let's pick non-cooser food okay a victimless crime let let's say a person ate non-coosher food and they did it on purpose again you can decide if it's shake maze it you can it was cheaper and it was better and it was much better and it was much cheaper and they and they enjoyed it more and so on and so forth. And then they said, "No, I'm a I won't do this." And they do cha and they in Yamiper passes and they take it upon himself and God testifies and God knows they're never going to do it again. And the person read Perig Zion and the Rambam and the person knows that God considers them to be closer now, to be beloved and to be a friend and to be trusted and so on and so forth. And and as we continue, we get to the next Yum Kipper and they've never turned back. So why in the world they now have to go back again and and and with true remorse do vido say vidi and dova for what they've done and the raam quotes a puk. It's a good puk. We're going to have to come back to this as well. I know my I know my sins, my rebellions even and my sins are in front of me always. So therefore that line always he's saying is a really good thing. So again that's our disconnect. God has erased the past and considers you a friend and you live with the past and others who remind you of the past are making a mistake. But even there I I want to be a little bit more careful because even though the others right are not to remind you of the past are they allowed to remember the past and and again I I can open this up and I have a whole bunch of sources over here which I don't plan on going through but I I do want to speak about the perspective of the of the community and I do want to speak about some specific sins. So let's just say you have a butcher who deliberately sold non-coosher food and then Arabium Kipper says listen that was like a mistake I'm sorry tells everybody okay I'm sorry you know by the way everybody cure all your kitchens and so on and so forth and you know I'm reopening after uh after I'm reopening Matsoy Kipper and do we say oh listen we all believe in Chuva and Yum Kipper passed so we're going to give the guy the benefit of the doubt so uh So, so, so I'm saying so, so again, unfortunately, historically, and not just historically, there have been enough cases like this that uh that it could be that from your perspective, okay, I'm glad you did chuva. I'm not walking into your establishment anymore, which means at which point does this person reestablish the credibility and let's say they they are a real vuva. So, can you are you still allowed to go over to them and say, "Listen, so it's their now to remind them in order to embarrass them, but that does that mean I have to shop there?" I mean, and again, I can do I can do other cases. So, so [clears throat] a teacher or a rabbi, a teacher who has been accused of uh of having a sexual relationship with one of his pre-teen female students and then he did chuva. Do you say, "Okay, so we're going to hire you back for next year because everything is because everything is good." What? >> Guidance counseling because you know everything is good. And it could be that some of you going to say, "Well, that may not be the wisest thing." Okay. So, I'm going to ask you, do we believe in Chuva or not? So, if we believe in Chuva, and we know God loves them, and we know that. So, so I I know that there is the problem. Um, somebody who was a thief, at which point do they become a kosher witness again? And and again, I can keep on going through different cases. Part of what's really interesting in the Rambam and this is not obvious until you go through all 10 chapters and you think because you need to do both and then you come to this realization the Rambam does not deal with any of these questions here in the laws of Ads in the laws of kosher let's say he deals with it which means the Ram deals with people who've lo who have earned their loss of trust trust but he doesn't deal with it in the laws of chuva which is which itself is interesting which means I I initially started my question by saying okay we have three different aspects over here which I want to explore so if I would have said okay what's the perspective of the community based upon based upon these 10 chapters I would not have received the proper picture and I really would have had to learn through all of the Rambam which by the way has precisely 1,000 chapters he obviously thought about this a little bit when he did this. I would have to go through all thousand chapters of the Rambam and and say ah he did talk about this particular issue but in another place which means which means is regaining the trust of the community from the Rabam's perspective necessarily something that has to do with Chuva or perhaps it has to do with something else. So I'm just I'm just you know raising that point right now and I want to actually focus in on one specific point which I think will be really helpful for us to uh understand all this a little bit better. Yeah. >> That that is correct and that's a very good observation and that may be uh exactly the point why it's not the place it's not the place to discuss it. Again, we could have thought it was the place to discuss it, but not necessarily. When we move over to source five, which is a whole bunch of things from chapter three from Peric Gimmel, and we don't need most of those things. I mean, we need them, but we're just not going to do them. Um I want to move to here. He lists 24 things. The all these 24 categories that I just now laid out. the says he speaks of 24 people who have coursed over a threshold and they no longer have a share in the world to come. So obviously that is quite severe at the as he continues he talks about the major sins there all all these things that they did if you want to know what they are then go and learn the rest of chapter gimmel perkiml and then at the end he writes below if they died having not done but if the person again originally we started with the sinner this is more than a sinner this is wickedness right but if this person returns from their wickedness and then dies right that means the rabb is saying even these 24 things which are severe a person loses their share in the world to come but if they did chuva chuva works for everything somebody rejected God an entire life the very end returns shalom shalom God heals people that are clear that are close that are far call of the wicked. Those are the the people who rebel whether they returned publicly or secretly. Now among the list of all the people over here was the person he says was along the list of well was the person who was guilty of idolatry. So the raam says that all these people he did chuva they are accepted even if the chuva was done in a way that nobody knows about it. In source number six, the raim is writing in the laws of a Jew who was guilty of idolatry. That's not just that you're guilty of one particular really bad sin. This severs the relationship. These people are no longer considered to be Jews. Obviously this is also a longer discussion and some would also want to then continue and what is the status today very famously the I'll say even the saw a lot of people today is being which by the way is already written in the Rambam and these people are never accepted in ever so here in the raam writes again one of these 24 the person who's guilty of what is never accepted. And he continues to explain that no these people are not accepted right the these people are outside and yet in uh the Rh says these people are accepted. So all kinds of rishonim and aim grapple with this quote unquote contradiction. the best answer and and you can ask me why I think it's the best answer but don't ask me because it will be too obvious. The best answer to this question and I and I apologize to all those who have given you know really creative answers along the way. The best answer to this question is a chuva of the Rambam where somebody asked him about the contradiction and he gave his answer to what was the difference. So I just kind of think that the author explaining his thinking is a little better than anybody else explaining his thinking. So it's in source number seven and again know what the Rambam talking to the Rambam giving him his depiction and and he asked the question that I just now laid out and if you skip in source seven till it's bold in the second half which is where the answer comes in and that which you think is a contradiction there's no contradiction We the community don't accept them. We can't trust them. We still treat them as idoltors. And we'll skip a little bit more. But in the other source that talks about the relationship between them and God. And by the way once you realize the answer you realize there is no question because remember the Ram said even if they do it secretly if they did it secretly then who knows that he did it secretly. Nobody knows that he did chuva. And what was the what was the content or the sorry the context of perk gimmel? It was Olmhaba. All these people lost olhaba. Oh but this person did chuva. So it's not the point can he open up a butcher store afterwards. What was the point here? Does he have a share an olhaba? So what that's between man and god. You know why? Because god gets to decide who has olhaba. Which means these two different chapters were dealing with different things. One was the former priest for a voter who was brought up in you know a Jewish community his re-entering the community and the ram says no. And on the other hand, the former in same individual who does sincere chuva the rabam welcomes him into the world to come. And the two different the two different perspectives are interesting because I just I I just want to make this a little bit clearer now which means it's not just that we have two different perspectives. There is this view from heaven. We have the view of the individual which by the way the the word I used there was there is this disconnect. And it is possible that because of the disconnect is why okay I'm going to try to make this clear. God can testify that this person will never do it again because this person is constantly doing chuva. The God sees him as beloved because he's constantly doing chuva and therefore won't slip down and therefore this person is struggling. God says I've already forgotten what you've done but you can't forgot forget what you've done. I for me it's it's not there for me what was done is now part of your passion to have a relationship with God which by the way gets very close to something the Ram does not mention in all 10 chapters and that is Rakkesh's teaching in the Gmorra says also in the Shami and that is that shuva when done out of love turns that turns the things into mitzvot so again the ram never brings that as an absolute teaching but maybe that's exactly what he means over here and that's why he says oh this person is beloved to god maybe there is this point of love over here. And by the way, the 10th chapter of Chuva is about loving God. That's what that whole 10th chapter is is about. So therefore, now we realize that we have this complex interrelated perhaps relationship between view from God, view from earth, view from God is because of what's taking place on earth and then the view from the community which is as you correctly noted is not part of Chuba because it has to do with communal attitudes and troubly the robins. Yeah. has to do with the chair in the world to come and that has nothing to do with the way the community can look and and I and I do want to note one more thing here then I'll take a couple of your comments and then I still have a lot more things that I have to say but what what I Okay one second let I'll maybe I'll take the comments first >> list a couple of people who have no share >> yeah good it's that that's more the 10th chapter or 11th chapter 10th missionar of Sanhedrin right so that's per so yeah so the raam saying yeah no in the world to come unless by the way masha is one famous example is one famous examples oh no oh but he but he ended up he he ended up he ended up doing chuva I I I just okay what I wanted to note is as follows is that others don't necessarily agree about the inability of a community accepting somebody who's crossed over. I mean, especially and and that's what I said in the very beginning. You know, you have the Ashkanaz who have a very different approach. They they dealt with uh I'm not saying the Rabam and Sparta communities didn't, but they dealt with the forced conversions. By the way, Muslims were forcing conversions as well, which is why uh the Rambam had to end up leaving Spain. But there's a custom which is brought down in Arab versus Sha and in Arab Kiper that you go to Mikvah, right? In the way the Ramas dresses it in both those places is he says you go to mikvah because of a possible tumor because of what he calls ker. So there's a logical problem with that is and that is that's a takan of Ezra. The takan of Ezra was either canceled or never accepted which means we don't follow Ezra. We don't follow Ezra the wrapper. Now there was another position that was noted by the goim that an Arab yam kipper you go to mikvah because of chuva because of tah and not only that a man who goes to mikvah kipper would make a braha because it's a mitzvah to go to mikvah our we not a mitzvah we don't make a braha but there were communities that men and women went to mikvah and aram kiper there was a very authoritative risha on the rivash who said women single women should never go to the mikvah because who knows what could happen or you do know what could happen and uh but nonetheless you know it is quite possible that going to the mikvah for somebody who has uh has spent the year sinning and now has decided they're doing chuva and they need a catharsis it could be that it would be a very powerful thing to allow them to go dip in the mick and come out and to feel that they've undergone something and that was Actually a number of the rishon in breeding I saw it from rishona from Italy I saw it from other places as well is that they say for a balchuva to re-enter the community they must go to mikvah and you know that law from yam kipper is the law of the sinner having to re-enter the community you need to go to mikvah as I said the rama tries to say no we don't hold like that so we don't make a braha and we and and and for us no it's just because of ker which is a little funny but that's the tension within the rishonin because others see this as being part of a re-entry issue. So now for the Rambam, as you now note, the Rambam doesn't talk about this re-entry issue, but the Rambam makes a distinction. He goes, "No such a thing. We can't accept it. We we we we can't bring them back." And I'm going to show other communal attitudes and then I'm going to try to make a little bit more progress. We'll see how far we get. Yeah. >> Second second instance where can I mean the Rambam is putting words in a coach's >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. From the very beginning you could said that you could have said this to me. Yeah. The Rambam is telling you how the how God looks at >> he knows how. >> Yeah. >> It's Yes. Yes. Yes. I'm saying all Yeah. All of chapter 7 was like that. God says, you know, your beloved and and and you could just and and that's what I I try to I try to nuance when I first said it. I said, "How does Ram know this? He knows all of Kazal. He knows all of scripture." And he's saying, "Yeah, this is what emerges from the picture." And he paints you this incredible picture and he doesn't hesitate to tell you the perspective from heaven. So the Rambam is telling you how the heaven looks at the Baltuva and he tells how the Baltua looks at the Baltuva. And now we're going to get a little bit more to the community. So note note source number nine. So you're right. It's it's okay. When you grow up, maybe you could be the Rambell. Okay. [laughter] question. I was thinking about I was thinking of the Babylonian king. Yeah. >> Both of them do at the end end of their lives. They cause so much damage to the Jewish people. They did such horrible things. So I understand how they can do I don't understand how the king and the kings could do last minute. Oh, they're going to get one of >> Well, they won't be next to you. But but uh [laughter] but but I I saw I saw one I saw once I saw once somebody asked with the Gomorrah how could it I know where I saw it. If you need to know it was inky that Minasha the Gmorra says he's a chuva in the Nvi there's no hint about it but it does say So he says why because the whole time of the Na'vi his acts are still there. So the people that he hurt it's still there. The people that he led you know astray are still there. But by the time Dvra Yammen was written so then they it no longer had the impact. So therefore,