Genesis Rising: Pt II | Rabbi Shai Finkelstein | October 28th 2025

Okay. Hello everyone. Uh we will continue with Noah and Moshe and first just again the show is dedicated to the Davis by their families. Um should be okay. We are init page two. Based on some of the faces, I can assume that not all of you have associate. [snorts] Okay, hold on to them for next time. Don't bring them back. I think that does not work. Even I put myself in my shendo. Um, okay. So uh what we saw last time we spoke about really the name Noah and we spoke about the reason given for the name and we try to see if that sink you remember that's what we did all that time and now we try we'll try to try to understand no leadership or lack of leadership and the way that they comparing to Abraham and Mush. So page two So these are the we will see in a minute what it means does not mean necessarily children or descendants might be other things. So which is definitely a nice phrase to have. Um even though who else was sadik? Who else? >> And we have something else also was walking with God. Let's put it like that. and he was taken by God. Okay. And then has three kids. The land is full of corruption. Saw the land and it became totally corrupt because every creature basically corrupted his or her way on the land. So Hashem says to it the time came and I'm going to what? To destroy this land and therefore therefore you should create for yourself an ark and you should cover it. Okay. Now we see few things. And we see that the praise that Noah received was what is. So ish is always a language of right is and then we have and now the word tamim is also mentioned in our par at the end. Right? Which was about the Brit which means Abraham is also called but only after the and here Noah is already considered as by the way we know also there is a mitzvah. So it seems to be that no is really being praised with something that it's uh it's very honorable but also the word sadik. Now we know that there is a difference between what and >> and very good we say we haveim and we haveim. What's the difference between all three of them? We will discuss a little later. And then there is something that the narrative is basically focusing on which is in his generation. Now we all know what the rabbis are saying but it seems to be even without the rabbis let's try to omit everything we know the word if I would ask you why do you think the Torah says in his generations what would you say >> the same thing that they say that it would have been another generation [snorts] it wouldn't have been the same way. >> Okay. So if he will not be in that generation, will be in a different generation, he can be worse or better, >> right? >> Just not the same. >> Not the same. Okay, very good. Not the same. So we can understand where the rabbis are coming from, right? Okay, that's one because obviously you could just say it really begs the what the the idea of let's compare him to to someone else. Okay. So, let's take a look at the evenra first. >> Question. The first time I think it says it's after [snorts] the sin of Adam when it says Hashem was >> before. >> I'm not sure. >> I think before the sin. >> Oh, you're talking about that. Oh, that's one >> right. Yes. >> So, that's the first time it's ever used that word. So, Why is it used here? Is it positive? Is it a negative? >> Oh, okay. We will need to compare it also to Abraham because with Abraham it said something else. >> So, we'll talk about all of that. Don't worry. Even >> Yeah. >> sounds I mean grammatically it sounds like his generation. >> Why his generation? >> Oh, so that that's basically what uh instigate in a way that's the instigator for the entire discussion. A should say in his generation should be in grammar and then when it says >> it could be but not they're not his. Why? Why his? Why are they his >> Oh, okay. Well, we'll see Benz in a sec. Yes, Ben. >> No, no mystery. It was 500 and some odd years or whatever. No more spends many generations. Uh okay that's only with one thing that we need to ask how we would define a generation in terms of years you know inim it says what so ador generation is 40 years then later on it became 25 years and nowadays it's every time that you have a new iPhone which is really 6 months so that's that's a huge difference in terms of generation but I I agree with you it might be the daughter of in his generations the guy lived for 500 years when he had the kids. He was 600 and something when he had the the so in his generations. Okay. So take a look at one right. [clears throat] What is what will happen to him? Not not descendants but rather experiences events that he will face. Now first and foremost you need to ask yourself a question. Why would evenra says not to say that's his children. Now that's very simple because when you read the narrative it says which means it should have say what right that's very simple. So that's why the says does not mean descendants but rather what will happen to it now that sounds great but let's put it let's insert it now in the verse. So right those are the things that Noah will face. Unless you tell me that you need to read it like that. These are the things that will happen to Noah. Now, who was Noah? No was an wait Noah also has three kids. We don't know anything about them. Close parenthesis. Yes. And then I'm telling you at his time God wanted to what? To destroy the world and God told Noah, you're going to be the sole survivor and the savior of this world with your family. Now that's like a this is like a very complicated reading of the narrative. So even continues means what? In his actions in his heart. Okay, that's that's too much grammar. So he explains what does it mean? Huh? in his generation and it not in the past but rather what? >> In the future. Why? Cuz he still lived until Abraham was >> 58. Now you can imagine we can now make a calculation. Who who is good in math here? >> Don't don't raise your hand because it's going to be complicated. >> Okay. How old was Noah when he died? 950. >> 950. Hold on. 950. Okay. He start building the ark when >> 600. Okay. 600. So 350 years. How many generation between Noah and Abraham according to Kazal? >> 10. 350 divided by 10. >> 35. >> So what? Now we got 35 years for a generation. That's interesting. Now that's less than 40. >> More than 25 but less than 40. So this is an interesting thing. He claims that Noah was still there when Abraham was there. Okay. Interesting. Abraham met is 58 when he died. No, >> sorry. When a was 58, um, no died. >> Now, where is he coming from? Now, I don't really want to focus on that part because it it is interesting, but it's not interested enough for me. So, I'm going to talk about something else. The Iban Ezra does something that he always does in his per which is he knows what the majorities what the traditional interpretations are but he first and foremost focus on what many times the will say this is my interpretation and I'm well aware the midrash has his own agenda but if you asking me about the and now take a look at this Ibanz and that's why I brought espers in order to try to clean your head from all the memories from uh you know the kindergarten teacher that told you that Noah was only good in his generation and not in different generations. Basically what the says no he was good in his actions he did good uh why was he not chosen to be whatever different reasons but now the means in his generation and in the generations in the future. Yes, Susie. >> He was good. Noah was good in his generation but not like >> Oh, okay. So now that's reading a little bit into what he says. He wants to claim that when Avam was 58 years old and it was his time to shine, so Noah died because comparing to Avam, he was basically not enough. But what is the idea of 58? We know about Aram about what ages from the Rambam we know about three and 40 and definitely from the narrative we know what 70 and 75 and 80 >> six and 99 right why did I say all those years the Rambam talks about the fact that the that Abraham realized God at the age of 30 or 40 70 and 75 we know that's when God revealed himself to Abraham. We know 86 that when he gave birth to not he gave birth to Ishmael 99 it's when was born. So we know those years 58 maz three times baritzvah maz 58 is a where is that come from? That's an interesting thing. The Ezra does not bring he says this is a sign from where the Ezra does not reveal his his sources in this case >> is no >> yeah I understand but that's very nice but that's not even this is this is good for you know the gimatri of 58 it's it's like where is the source for that I did not find but if someone find let me know I didn't do a major research that's the says What does it mean? He attached himself to God was a really a person who attach himself to God and everything he did was for the sake of God and his cognitive abilities helped him to overcome his desires. Because what? He was immersed in a generation that was so corrupt and evil and he still was able to what? To stay strong and not to follow that generation. And the only one who really attached himself to God and was committed to God was only him. Which means he was totally isolated from what? From the entire generation. Now rea all of you heard the drasha. Yes was very sadic for himself and it didn't help the generation and that's why he was not sure. The rad does not look at that in a negative way. Right? He looks at that in a very positive way. Can you imagine yourself being immersed in a terrible generation and still keep your righteousness? >> It's wonderful. I was lo was okay. Good. >> Do you get the beta? I can't I guess I cannot advertise another sh I give but yes I will. >> Why did you say lo or not? >> No no no I'm saying listen to the sh from beta vikai that will come today at 5 and you will know what went wrong. Now I'll go back to the Okay. So yes Michael >> what about his kids? His kids who no kids ah no we know a little bit about them at the end of the para >> why were they affected strongly to be like >> ah okay okay okay yeah uh [snorts] um look at the ramban interpret not this one the ramban's interpretation and you will see a little bit about them okay yes ever talk negative about somebody? >> I'm not an expert on the rad, but I will be surprised if he does not. >> He does not. >> Yeah, cuz everyone has something negative to say about someone. >> Yes. Is there any uh kind of sim like example about Noah which is sort of parallel to Yseph being a sadik because of paral's wife and that he held himself back even though he didn't want to. And and what is with Noah sort of an example that would be saying why he wasn't speaking his way >> the the idea of sadik it means that you can restrain yourself and overcome [snorts] your desires that's the way to compare no and but the temptations were very different >> so what was an example like >> no there is no there's almost I I did not see anyone compare north to Ysef they compare referring to a toe >> in general. What would be a something that he would about >> who? Noah. >> Yeah. >> Being able to overcome all the temptation of the generation around him. Meaning everyone around him is doing A and he is able to do B. Yes. >> But why didn't you him for his generation like Moshe did? >> Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. So the question is if he is such a sadik it seems to be that even when you look at all this positive commentary on on Noah you do have a question of if you are such a sadik why don't you pray for others now >> Abraham did right I'll take you in a sec there is a problem here you are talking about a generation who is totally evil. Right? When Abraham spoke to God, God did not tell him, "I'm going to destroy the world." He told him, "I'm going to destroy what and were promised to Abraham." Abraham did not get any promises. So in a way Abraham argued with God about what his own cities to some extent meaning the idea to compare Abra and regarding trying to fight for the world in a way it's a bit unfair >> I know they say >> but that's for whom? But that's for whom >> is going to destroy Israel >> that's my responsibility has no responsibility for the entire world why would he have a you're with me meaning again I know that's why that's why I'm giving the sh not to repeat the same thing that you know for all those years it's just to burst your bubble okay it's not to enhance it we all know that they like to compare Abraham and Noah and saying no did not argue for the world and Abraham did My my problem with that is I understand where you're coming from but don't forget there are different circumstances with a hashem told Ara I'm changing your name to Abraham why you are going to be the father of all nations including [clears throat] so if I'm going to destroy something that I gave you I need to what to consult with you a b I can hear your argument and you know what you should argue with me but if you have zero responsibility for something I never gave it to you. Now it might be a nice thing that you will say llama but a this generation is terrible and b you already told me what that you're going to destroy destroy it c you never gave it to me. Moshe wonderful he's doing that for whom? For Israel. Hashem told Moshe he's the chosen one. Meaning am is the chosen one. He has responsibility for that generation. He needs to go ahead and say to God, if you don't um if you don't forgive them, erase me from the name of the from the from the Torah. So there is a difference. Yes. >> So I'm looking from the point of view of Hashem when Hashem wanted to for instance with Yah he said go to the city and preach against them. They did with Noah. He said don't do anything to build an ark and go and >> and with Abraham he said Go away. Go away. So you have God is telling it's not why is saying it's a bad thing. >> Very good. >> Very good question. You're just strengthening my my question. Very good. You're basically he's asking God told um Noah this is really got on my nerves. I'm going to destroy this world. Built an ark with Abraham. He says what? What am I going to seal? what I'm doing from a I'm going to to uh to hide it. I need to to to ask him. And then he says to him, "Look, the the cry out from there is terrible. What do you think? I'm going to this." There is no Okay, go somewhere else. >> Yes. thinking about the other cases when he got out of the table and then he planted rapes and got drunk and did inappropriate things and I can't ever imagine I doing anything like that. >> Okay. So now I'm going to answer it in two ways and what I want to say and I will say it at in the front is that sometimes and this is what part of the lessons that I would like you to take from this show is to try to understand Kazal's agenda and what was the question or what was the thing that motivated them to sometimes say things against the narrative. They found something in the narrative but they have somewhat of an agenda. Now what you suggested that look at the end of the story. So first and foremost we are not at the end yet. Okay that's a b we don't know exactly how immediate was the planting of the vineyard and getting drunk. It might be. Don't forget when he went from the ark, he first built what? A misp and he brought sacrifices and God smelled the aroma and he said what? I'm not going to bring flood anymore. And he gave him the seven laws of Noah and he gave him the and he told him it's almost like going back to first commandment to Adam and also some warnings. Okay. and all sorts of things. But it seems to be that God is pretty happy with No. Now it might be that 30 years later No planted that vineyard and got drunk. Why he had PTSD? I know maybe he had a flood PTSD. Just imagine everyone you know for all those years is gone and then you have no mission. You are missionless. Okay, there are many ways to explain it but really really the question is that Khazal are struggling with and I think that what generates the entire idea that Noah is not as good as Ara and Mushe is that how come he was not chosen to be the founder of Israel that's the issue this is the main issue of Noah started as isim And he ended up as what the man of the earth when Moshe starts is and ends up like like that's I think what generated the issues of kazal but I want to know first the narrative and then after the narrative we will find hints for kazal but we need to know that sometimes there is somewhat of a gap between what khazal suggest test to what to what the narrative really have have to say. Okay. Yes. >> Even his children Shane and Aar didn't go ahead and spread it. >> No, Ev is not one of his like descended >> and a grandson. Yeah. Right. So they set up Yeshiva learned that we know. But they didn't go ahead and spread it. Abraham did. That's a different thing. >> How do we know that? >> I learned it. [laughter] >> Did you ask yourself how do we know that Shem and ever open up a yeshiva? I have receipts. [clears throat] >> You have receipts. Okay. Very good. >> Now you will you will tell me that you were on a lonely island and you made a pledge and they found you. Okay. So it it you see how we are so trained to think yes sure ma Rifka was pregnant and she went to Shem. I'm not saying by the way it did happen or did not happen. I'm not. But we are so trained to think like that. And when you look at the narrative where in the narrative it says that shem had yes it says but right notem like what does that mean? She went to Navi. Who was the Nav'i? Okay, so Kazal's trying to figure out who is the Nav'i. By the way, it's very simple. It should be the Niv goes in a lengthy interpretation why she didn't go to. Okay, but let's leave that alone. We'll get there. We'll get But the idea is is that we need to understand that comes with some kind of an interpretation. Obviously, part of it is and whatever, but it's to create some kind of a narrative. Yes. So from your definition before in terms of protecting their own it kind of makes them less makes them more mortal less you know less less godlike because they were really just looking out for their own >> it and you know what >> I think you're right and I have nothing against it which means because they have responsibility they didn't run away from the responsibility a with Moshe by the way he didn't even take advantage on the offer that Hashem told him let me annihilate them and I'll start new from you. Some other people will probably say, you know what, sounds good, right? And he didn't. So that's obviously so something very altruistic with Moshe, but you I agree with you. It was theirs and it was their responsibility. They don't deserve such a biggy shak. So now I see your faces. You probably don't know what to do with me. That's fine. Uh we will get to in a in a few minutes but just I want you we to go through this process. Okay. The sadikim was not only a praise but also a reason why Noah was saved from the come to teach Okay. So he was in a way judged by God and God found him to be what? righteous and worthy to be saved from the is the reason why he was chosen. Now, so he says when it comes to Abraham, he says meaning Abraham can do and compassion means what? Charity. to give to help people in need. Okay, so he quotes and after he says that he's a righteous man. So after he says that he's a righteous man and he's not a corrupt person and a terrible person like his generation, that he would walk God with God only God. He he was a man faced and he's not being seduced by all the astrologers only only have in mind one thing. God. That sounds very much, by the way, a description of whom? Never heard of that. >> If I would ask you who are the init, what would you tell me? >> Oh, Abraham. How do I know that Abraham was considered as anime? >> Right. You should give him. Okay. Based on what? On the mid. Okay. Who else was in Midash? So basically Noah would not make the list. Ramban says he what? He was why God communicated with him. So he was that you will follow God and you should fear him. Okay. So you should walk in front of me and you should be wholesome. So if he will be what? He will sink his opinions and his ideas with me says God. So after was a righteous person and he was worthy to to be saved from the Michael you got an answer already here which means he says and by the way this is an interesting way to read the narrative which will will be what descendants first you start with him he was he has three kids and he's going to be saved from the mabul not only him but also what his three kids why his three kids will be saved not because they were righteous but rather because of him if God will kill them is you are punishing him so therefore they were grandfathered in to the ta and they were saved because of whom because of their own father which means he was not he was not able even to influence his own children. So you expect him to what to influence the generation. By the way who else was not able to influence his own children? >> Before Moshe you are right. But before Moshe >> Ishmael has a was a troubled kid. Asaf >> was also a bit troubled. Some of Yakov's children were um challenging. >> Okay. So what I'm saying that you know you blame Noah. Wait. Yes. >> What was the >> you really want to answer? >> Yes. >> And also the people have free will. You can be a Na'vi and preach all about destruction gonna come if you don't change. They didn't >> agree 100%. >> People could have come to him while he's building the arc saying why crazy old man are you doing this and he's telling them and they just blow him up. >> Right. That's true. It was also a movie >> know that he didn't try to >> did you see the movie >> the thing the >> what's the name of that movie? uh >> no no whatever it is and you see that I mean it's obviously based a little bit on the on the narrative but yes people would think you are crazy he's making Noah into Wow >> yeah why not the narrative says >> he's the only one he's the only one the other one's looking for other >> no no Ibenzra all of them look very positively on Kazal comes obviously before But it's there is an interesting point why they deviated. Okay. And then it says or alternatively says Ramb maybe not only Noah was righteous but also his children. >> Now because and why because he >> taught them he educated them. Now why would we know that? like it's very similar to what is written later on. But that was said about read every word in the that's very that's very interesting. The Ramb quotes wrote a puk that says about Abraham regarding what do and he brings it on. Abra did it, he must have done it. >> The what? >> I said if Abra did it, he must have done it. >> Yeah, sure. The problem is that with Afra, God says because I know he will teach them and that's why I'm going to want to consult with him with Noah nished. >> So this is an interesting thing how Ramban I mean the Ramban knew exactly where that puk is from. Yeah. He's not uh he he knew exactly what it is. But he wanted to say yes obviously if someone is being saved he cannot just be grandfathered in. He needs to do something. So that's the rambatan. Okay. So until now we are uh we are pretty much pretty fine with him. Yes. >> How would explain? Same way he will explain is malas. I mean, no had better better percentage only 33% was not that great. Awam 50%. So that's uh in a way that's not good. Okay. So by the way also with Abraham he didn't even see how Ishmael is not doing the right thing which is also terrible. Okay. It's so easy to speak about someone else's educational failures, you know. It's like so easy. Okay, Radak, by the way, don't only focus on failures. They did incredible things. When you read and you understand some of the decisions that they made and what did they do, it's it's incredible. Okay, so the rad is asking a question. Just one second. We already know that that Noah has three kids from when >> from last week's para like from end of it says that Noah has three kids and we know the name. So why do we need to what to repeat it again? But he mentioned them here after he said that I was walking in front of God to teach you like the same way he was engaged in the service of God. He taught his children to remove themselves from the path of their wicked and to serve God and to attach themselves to him. Meaning if they were not righteous, they will not be saved. Which means That does not care about what the Ramban says that if he will kill his children it will punish him. Says [clears throat] you are righteous you will be saved. If they are not righteous they will not be saved. So therefore the fact that they were saved means what? that they and their wives were and he says if you are concerned how Noah will have children after the if let's say he God will kill his children the answer is Noah's wife they even 600 years whatever they will be they will have children. So therefore says you must say that his children were taught and were righteous as well. Now by saying that what did he create? In a way, no was able to influence at least his family, which now begs the question if he was able to what? >> To teach his family. Ah, >> and here is a question that you can ask. Now, there are two answers to it. Answer. The first answer is >> he didn't try. Okay, that's the the the dasha one, right? He didn't try and because he cared only about himself. He's not a good leader and all of that. The second one is >> they didn't listen. >> He didn't try. He did try but they did not listen. How do we know that they did not listen? >> They died. The word. Oh, so that's speculation. But now I'm going to prove to you in a way prove as much as I can that they did not listen and they were so stubborn that they wanted to do something to on the day of the it says what is on that day. Where else in it says >> before you correct that will be the third one. Second one, huh? At the end of this and then one in even without anything I I look at these three events and I ask myself, okay, what's the common denominator? It seems to be that when that event took place on that day, it [clears throat] seems to be that there was something opposing the event that took place at that time. So for example, let's talk about which will be the easiest. Obviously when the Jewish people went out from it, the Egyptians were not thrilled about it. They were terrified, but they were not thrilled about it. How do we know? Three days later they chase them. Okay. So that's how created the idea that every time it says it means what? That someone tried to oppose it. So says that at the day of the flood the wicked people they tried what? To break the ark. Not in order to enter it but just to break it. Brit many people say ah this is the time to what? To go and attack Abraham. So Hashem says no one no one will oppose your everything will be fine with it is the same thing. So the idea is that the word that is being mentioned here in the mabul it seems to be that they were stubborn in their wickedness and they didn't want to to listen to to so you can say maybe his methods were not great maybe he was not charismatic maybe he was not hospitable like Ara maybe he had to to you know to use a different method you can criticize him but you can't say for sure that what >> that he didn't try for that you don't have any sign in the narrative itself. But what do you hear from here? That Kazal wanted to portray him for many different reasons. But they wanted to portray him >> as someone who lost his opportunity to be a true leader. Yes. >> We have instances where people have tried and have said a lot of things. Nobody listened. Nobody says that you that there's a but in reality it's the and and you may not you just can't convince the people but you know >> I cannot agree more than that and by the way show me one of the that the people listen to him >> Jewish people >> go [laughter] >> very good you don't have too many examples right and why >> we're stumbled Because that's was the problem of being a prophet. You need to speak to power. You need to speak to people and no one listens to you. Was just a tragic uh figure because he was also thrown to a pit and whatever it was. So, oh wow. So, what do we have from now? So basically what we have is that Iavana specifically I brought this rishim and I didn't bring one four or five basically portray no with very much of a positive light not a negative light they knew what kazal said but they were what we called parane they look at the narrative and they try to what to understand it what does it mean and their book of reference for their interpretation was what Tanakh and they look they took a word from here and a word from there and they said okay that what it means here that is what what it means there when they came up in the first century in the second century in the fourth fifth 6th 7th century whatever it was it was before the the when they came and portray Noah in a negative light don't forget that they at least some of had to deal with what had to deal with other religions that just basically started. So if we if we say that really Abraham was chosen and we are the chosen after a some of the other nations will definitely try to associate themselves with whom with no. So this is a historical consideration not a reason well not a reason rather a consideration to take into account when we think about reasons of why there's going to be such a shift in interpretations between let's say 2nd century until let's say the 9th century and then the change in the Iban Ezra Raman Radak that basically don't have an issue with no is a wonderful person Tamim even he taught his children okay he's not bad he's not a bad person at all why he was not chosen that's not the question now no one is chosen now now they do have a lot to say at the end of the story about no but for now no is okay and especially when you know all the midrashim that already basically caught know at the beginning they didn't even give him a chance to some extent. Yes. >> To do what he did to be able to do to do it in the middle of the most horrible circumstance. >> Why do you want to be so negative? >> I agree with you. Susie is basically saying Abraham in a way Hashem told him he didn't tell no stay here in the Babylonian tower and try to convert Nimrod and all those guys to what to be sadikim but rather go start new he didn't say to >> yes >> connected with that I mean we're focusing on why Hashem didn't choose no to be that but the whole concept of choosing one and not everyone was the the knew with with Abraham. So there's some reason here, maybe not even no, but why Hashem wanted almost to show the story of how it didn't work. I mean, he gave him this and then still it didn't work. >> Very good. Now I think you were so inspired that you only trying to find bad things with Abraham and others. So don't don't don't don't do it yet. But I think mission is accomplished. I see faces. I And by the way, again, it's not to reject what Khazal says. It's just to offer another option of of thinking and to try to understand the agenda behind. And that's fine. I'm fine with the agenda, but I just want to see where is that in the narrative. So, what we're going to do next time, we'll see from the 19th century, and there you will see something else.