Eating Matza Before Pesach (Passover) by Rabbi Anthony Manning

okay good morning everybody welcome I hope everybody's uh keeping well and uh that your prepak preparations are going well and everyone's uh keeping calm and carrying on as uh we're always meant to do um I'd like to um thank our sponsors for today we have three sponsors for today's Shar the shear is sponsored anonymously as all shearim for 2024 by Anonymous donish brandid and zel Ben cman so we're very grateful for that um for that too and we have two specific donors uh sponsoring today's Shear uh the shear is sponsored in memory of Mr Aubry Roth sha who yourside is today by Mrs R Roth and families Mrs Roth here no okay well we are very grateful for that sponsorship and the she should be an alah for hisem and we are also uh very grateful to um the Mrs Rachel Steiner and the Steer Family for sponsoring the share also in memory of the late professor Mark Steiner ra Mor Yuda Ben EP who your fourth yite is today what's that yes okay good um whose yite is on Shabbat aad I believe and I certainly uh I certainly remember Professor Steiner being in the Shi Rim he used to sit around here and I have a vision of him sitting there um I I've prepared a share that I think he would definitely appreciate a bit of solid Hala and something a little bit off the beat and track and a little bit academic maybe at the end just for you know interest but we're really very grateful for all of those um all of those sponsorships and the AL for all of theas and for all of those people who shal Pim and all the the hatala that the Jewish people need right now now it's a little difficult to pick new topics to talk about before Pak because we've been doing this thank God for a long time but I found one um and actually it's one of these topics that the deeper you go the more interesting it gets so you'll have to hold on for a fairly bumpy ride uh it's going to start going in some unusual directions the topic appears to be very innocuous eating matah on of P which of course we don't do it's well known that eating mat on a of PES is Hally problematic and that this minhag of avoiding matah on AR PES has expanded and expanded in different ways I put you some examples here on the on I gave you some examples on the sheet many people do not eat matah from rashesh I'm sure that's quite common here uh there are people who don't eat matsah from purm there seems to be an English minhag I've put you some sources at the bottom those first two ha seem to be based on the idea that either two weeks before the or 30 days before the ha you start preparing for the um the 30-day minhag is less common outside England I think although it's aabad minhag and other people as well right okay so the the uh there's also a Min not to eat Mar on a of pesak some have a m not to eat eggs on a of P some people have a not to eat lettuce on AR of P not to eat any vegetables used on P fromes I'm not making this up I promise you these are all Bonafide not to eat any fruits on P because we eates at the table you see people start to get very you know invested in this and the question is why why why are people taking this so far that the itself feels the need to calm people down on this one start let's start with number one says this is going to be part of a a quite complicated system we're going to set up but we'll we'll start it here so the opening words here in number one are before the 10th hour which is around four o'clock in the afternoon says the you're allowed to eat mat mat is matah which is kneaded with either wine kneaded with eggs we often call it egg matah kneaded with fruit juice the Min of ashim on PES itself is not to eat mat there's all sorts of different inim where whether it could be or not there are it's not but unless there's a real need you don't need M but the fine with M but he says not after the 10th hour we'll see why soon there more carries on but the mat that you're going to use for the SED at night for sure you can't eat that for the whole of the 14th and the M agrees with that there's not a disagreement there but notice that his focus is on it's prohibited on the 14th cuz that's the mat will be eating to do the mitzvah tonight remember that and then he says if it's a small child is younger than the age of three four two maybe four is already age of you can give a small child mat on there are people who don't need lettuce on or horse radish so that you can eat the mar it's funny because the mar is you wouldn't expect but you should do all the M of there are some people avoided on remember night you miss it the only answer of Shany that I miss a little bit is second night seder I must tell you because all the way through first night seder my wife tells me when I start talking for too long she goes darling save that for second night and it took me a few years after we lived in Israel already to re realize that second night's not going to happen so save that for second night has now become like a family joke okay fine you shouldn't eat too much mat even on time for the same reason and then he gets into the ones which he feels are a bit too much there people don't even fruit forget about that that's just not not a real Minh maybe because there's no mitvah of maybe there is maybe there isn't we had a whole sh on a few years ago there even that they won't break up matzas they won't make recipes with matzas on ER of p in case they come to nibble the matsas but that's also like don't worry about that meaning people are really getting very Carried Away by these minhagim and the question is why and we'll see maybe a reason for that coming up the basic is that eating on AR P has a different framework to eating on any other or a of Shabbat and one of the reasons for that is because on the night of pesak there is the one remaining Mitzvah to eat a specific food number two this the Torah says from on the 14th of the month which is interesting because the Mitzvah we're going to see is not the 14th mat in the evening eat matah which is interesting Why didn't it worded on the 15th of the month on the night eat matah it doesn't say that it says on the 14th of the month in the evening you have to eat matah until the 21st and last year we talked if you remember about whether there's a Mitzvah to eat matah the whole of the seven days of PES and if so what kind of Mitzvah that is but from the fact that the the Torah words it on the 14th you eat matah in the evening almost sounds like it's implying but don't eat matah on the 14th during the day and there are those who want to read that out of the the postic that it's not just a rinic decree we'll see in a minute why that was not to eat matah during the day the 14th but it's even implied in the verse itself that you can only eat the matsah at night and we'll come back to that verse very soon the missioner picks up on this look number three we'll go quite quickly at the beginning of the show because I want to make sure I have rud time for the more uh exciting things at the endend number three a at the beginning of the 10th perim that on the a of P close to and the concludes and the conclude this isana in the afternoon around a half an hour before which is around 4:00 you can't eat until it gets dark well what can't you eat and why only from 4:00 so the picks up number four why did you pick on aren't there restrictions on a regular AR shabas a regular because there's a you can't eat on every every onwards so that you enter sh with an appetite RAB that is R's opinion and says no you can eat on a regular a of shabas a regular not P you can eat until it gets dark so why is this Mish there why are we talking about differently we only need it because ofb on an regular AR of shambas on a regular AR of sh he says you can eat why isn't he worried about an appetite because there's no actual Mitzvah to eat on chabas there's a Mitzvah of on shabas and strictly speaking on shabas is whatever you gives you on egg and if you're already a little bit full from Friday so you'll eat less if that's what gives you own egg then then fine you like lettuce eat lettuce through shabas it's fine but on P There's an actual MIT for to eat he says third line is only lenient up until Nightfall on a regular of the of p on of P because of the special of mat we're extra careful on a of shabas afternoon PES thank you afternoon just testing okay a of PES afternoon okay simple enough on a of pesak you really have to give yourself an appetite the reality of the way we do SED these days is many people don't end up eating their dinner at SED night till 11:00 at night so actually in the Manning family we are quite particular to eat on P afternoon something quite substantial so that everybody has energy to get through to to through Magid because if people are passing out during Magid then that doesn't help anything because that actually is a Mitzvah to say the the other two things that we do to keep people going is we give people a lot of drinks caffeine and sugar during mag there are people who are who say you shouldn't drink anything during Magid there's not a held um and they said that it's good to serve Coke and coffee ET Etc keep people going and also not to let people talk for too long we have a rule in our Seda if you have anything to say second night apart from that which we can't get away with anymore if you can say it in less than two minutes you can say during maget but if not we'd love to hear it during the meal okay that's what we always say and it has to be something relevant to MIT as well okay fine so what is it that you can't eat on a of PES it didn't mention mats specifically this was just generally you can't eat so look at number five thear clarifies i'mi you can have snacks you can you know mat is always you can shmear a little bit of and vegetables said you can have you can have vegetable snacks Kus may be a little problematic yes okay fine for the faring amongst us okay fine okay not giving a share about kidney okay equivalent um and actually the in the end pass us on this issue number six Pats you can't have anything which is Pat which would be mat that's all that's left we'll see from 4:00 onwards so you'll come to eat mat on S night with a good appetite you can have a little bit of fruit your you can have some vegetables just be careful not to get too full and the M bre um says also uh in pis in number seven Bas you could have some chicken if you like you have some meat fish you can have really anything you like on P except mat which would be which tend to not eat anyway decide but nothing that's going to fill you up okay fine so far very straightforward on a of Pak we don't eat after the 10th hour anything that's going to fill us up the stop eating M Shir it's not clear by the way from the raar whether ashim are allowed to eat matahir on a of P he doesn't say explicitly but I brought you in the footnote different people that say in different directions people tend not to eat mat even on PES after the when you can't eat but why didn't the mishna mention the the prohibition of eating matah on a of pesak all it talked about is from the 10th hour onwards not to get to full what about the obvious prohibition isn't there a the whole day long a Prohibition to eat mat on a of pesak why isn't that in the mishna that's a bit of a surprise where does it come from so the answer is it comes from the Tudi and this is where things start to become a a little bit more um involved because if you look in number eight this is a quite a famous Source Amar RAB says in the anyone who eats mat on P is like someone who sleeps with his fiance in her parents' home and anyone who sleeps with his fiance he's AR it's not quite a fiance someone who's been through Ain will see soon someone who sleeps with his his fiance let's call her that in her parents' home likea gets malus now first of all what's one thing got to do with the other that's that's the most appropriate comparison you can make as far as I'm aware it doesn't say about any other thing that you do wrong that it's as if you slept with your fiance and your parents' now obviously there's a there's a clear connection is that you couldn't wait you couldn't wait till the wedding you had to eat the matah early we'll see goes much deeper than that um but also it doesn't say here that someone who eats matah on AR P gets malus he says someone eats Mal PES is like someone who sleeps with their and they would get malus well why would they get malcus what exactly did they do wrong he's married to his arusa after aisen which is when they put the ring on the finger and say Harry Hally they're married they would need a get to separate so why is it so terrible okay they didn't wait for the under the but is is it so terrible they're man and wife so we'll talk about that in a minute um I can't resist just adding the slightly offc color remark which is quoted either in the name of a or in the name I heard it of bik or in the name of smolinski that it says in the ri there that it's eating M PES is as if you slept with your fiance in your parents home her parents home so he said whoever he was believe me I did both and they're not the same okay okay fine so you can work out who it's really who it's really attributed to so what's going on here how does this fit with the missioner so there are different ways of understanding it the number nine let's go over to page three number nine is a tophus rid Now tophus red takes the view actually that eating matah on a of pesak was only a problem for the Yushi and the bav did not have that problem and in fact you can eat matah on a of pesak up until the 10th hour now we don't Pas it like this but the felt this was AI issue look at number nine the why does our Mna say you have to stop eating at the 10th hour surely earlier in the day what are you going to eat you can't eat from like 10: in the morning so you can't eat you can't eat surely doesn't it say okay so if you say it means eat fruit you can even eat fruit right until the evening so he gives a couple of answers but one answer is that's what you have to stop eating that you could have eaten earlier in the day but then he says at the end of the third line you don't have to tie yourself in nuts here what was it the the mission said you should stop eating how do you know that our mishner held of this Prohibition in the Yi L did didn't if there would have been a real issue of eating matah on a of PES believe me he says the M the missioner would have told you the missioner didn't say that the Yi said that but then he concludes therefore it must be that we he says at the end as far as I'm concerned I don't know if he did this in his community in provance uh in uh northern France sorry the rid but he said as far as I'm concerned this issue is not the bav and the mishna are ruling that you can eat matah all day until the 10th hour only the armi has a problem with that now that's not how we pasan because all the heavyweights um say otherwise look at the Riff number 10 so the Riff says in in in North Africa 11th century and the r also quotes the Yami but the rambam adds something else which is very perplexing look at number 11 says the ramb the have prohibited eating mat on P we don't yet know exactly why but we'll look at why in a minute and if you eat mat on AR PES we give you malus Ma madus you will give you ribic lashes na until you die that's very perplexing because I gave you in the footnote a little um uh mention that the rambam mentions Maus mardus rinic lashes which of course we don't do today but the Torah says up to 39 lashes but when there's a rinic Prohibition they have something called Marcus maradas the lashes for Rebellion against the rabbis and the Ramba mentions this 104 times in the mishna Torah and the only place that he says until he dies is here on era of PES eating matah what's going on why why is everybody using the most extreme formulations for eating M eating Mata on AR of P now you could get out of this quite simply and say those words shouldn't be there the wrong geara meaning if he says it 104 times and this is the only place he says it it's probably not meant to be there and T if you look at some of the Aon they say yep it's the incorrect geara look at the manuscripts from before printing look at the early printings of the rambam they do not have these words at shet NAA they came in in 1574 from the Venice printing but the problem is that many of The rishonim Who quote the rambam clearly did have this because they're all perplexed they're all asking why is he saying this the ritah had this geara and the ran had this and actually if you look at the Fran rambam which is probably the most accurate in terms of quoting other um other versions it leaves these words in it does say in a footnote that other people don't have them in but it left them in presumably because they appear in so many of the medieval manuscripts so what are we going to do with the rambam so the Rand which I'm not going to read inside in number 12 he looks at this ramam and he says you know something he's right and he only needs to say it once and it's and it applies all of the other 103 times as well well he's going to have to say this 104 times you read it here it applies everywhere else why is this rubinic lashes so much more serious if you like than the Tor lash is because there's a worse problem at root here the person is rebelling against the rabbis obviously if he does Chu in the middle of the lashes and says okay I won't do it anymore I'll stop fine you can stop but with a Torah prohibition okay someone ate pork they were warned and they ate it and they say I just couldn't resist it I'm really sorry if I get like I get them okay so you get up however many that Bas in thinks appropriate up to 39 but someone who's leg rebelling against the reic system against the alic system says the ran now you know why it's so serious to rebel against the rabic system and this is what the rambam means okay that's one way of looking at it but others say no I brought you from R zilin in in number 13 he brings other people and says look it could be what's going on here is that there is something different about a PES means it here and he doesn't say it elsewhere why because there's a quazi Torah prohibition like I mentioned a few minutes ago it's not just a rinic fence there's something more going on here and if you flip over to number page four you'll see in number 14 the RO the RO was a cabalistic source the um rabar of vers this is not a particular cabalistic idea but he quotes here in number 14 you can't eat mat it says eat mat in the evening donate matah earlier on and also number 15 the POS says You must eat the meat the p on that night you eat it with mat and you eat it with Mar and I brought you a reference in the footnotes has a whole section in and his he talks about all of these different uh opinions that seem to see eating met matah on AR PES as something even more serious than a regular Ison which is serious enough but maybe it's because of these uh these ideas so what are the reasons what's the problem what are they worried about why should we not be able to eat matsah on AR PESA so there are three reasons given look at number 16 this is the bahag again this a very very old Source this this is a very old isue we'll see maybe even goes back to Temple time times so the bag in Babylon in the 9th century says as follows you're not allowed to you have to stop eating matah on the 14th during the day before you makees before you make say and say he brings that sauce we saw in in the evening and he gives a reason because if you eat the matah during the day you won't really enjoy it in the evening you really need to enjoy it you have to have s having inz is not just an added extra it is part of the it's part of the Fulfillment of the and this is the one thing that we've got left which is a Torah Mitzvah to eat I know Jewish people eat the whole year round but most of the time they don't have to actually even on chabas even on y there not a t Mitzvah to eat here there's a tah Mitzvah to eat the matah okay on AR Yip we'll see that in a minute also there's a Mitzvah to eat and maybe on on on suka's first night in the sukka but if you're going to do this one remaining Mitzvah you have to havez and this is presumably why people stop on rashes people stop on P I don't know anyone who goes before porim but it's and then he brings and there's a marsh which is very interesting because what have those two things got together got got to do with each other it's it's he's the problem with the guy who sleeps with his fiance too early is not that he jumped the gun and she jumped the gun it's because it won't be the same anymore your wedding night's meant to be the wedding night you are meant to be investing in that special moment and you've you've ruined the special moment and I think that's an important point on two levels hash graphically as well that remembering that the mes we have to do has to be has to be with excitement enthusiasm is something we sometimes need to remind ourselves not everybody loves matah actually a lot of people like Mata they just don't like what it does to their digestive system but that's that you don't worry about that you know we can always D them for a miracle this year it won't be the same it's a year of Miracles um U but here he's saying also there's another idea you have to create magical moments they don't create themselves and if you don't put in the the the prep beforehand it's just not going to happen everyone in this room knows because you've made sorim but I tell my younger students who have never really made sedor say Seda has to be choreographed it doesn't just happen you don't just sit around the table and like who what's the first thing to do has to be planned in advance and part of that planning is holding back from the things they're going to make it more special okay so that's the first reason the second reason the rambam gives a different reason number 17 so there will be a Hecker and that's not the same thing as enjoying the Mitzvah a heer means there'll be a clear difference between what you ate before and what you're eating now meaning if you were eating matsah all the way through a of pesak and then you just Chomp a little bit more matsah on site so like it it doesn't feel like you're doing anything different you might forget to have that special kavana that this is a Mitzvah that wasn't a Mitzvah but this is a Mitzvah we see this in a few places for example we daa don't blow the chauffeur on AR rashash and okay there are other reasons like AR Satan Etc but one of the reasons is heare because if we blow the chauffeur every single day through ell and then on rashash Sha okay yeah we blow the chaffer every day including Ro no today is very different today is a Mitzvah yesterday was a Min so we leave a day to make a he so that we don't have chauffeur on even eating on yum um there are there are those posting him that's saying that the Mitzvah to eat on yum Kiper I should say not yum Kiper a of yum Kiper is to create a Hecker that the reason I'm fasting tonight is Da for a meaning if I don't eat any of the time so what's the difference not eating yesterday and not eating today I don't eat I just someone that doesn't like eating you have to daa make yourself eat on a of Yumer so that when you stop eating you know oh I've stopped eating and there's a reason I've stopped eating this idea of a hea is very interesting although we don't applied across the board we never see anywhere that it says there's there's a Prohibition of sleeping in the sukka on AR sukus to make sure that you know that you're sleeping on sukus for a Mitzvah or that you'll enjoy sleeping on sukus more we don't see that why are we applying this for of P more than for other there's another reason which I'm not getting into too much in number 18 which the rav brings down which is that you're not allowed to get into a meal on a of PES whether it's earlier in the day or later in the day when you or mat because we you might not you might forget to do the cor P you might not go and do the PES we don't want you getting into things on AR PES because it's a busy day and there are things to do so you'll ask yourself well the rav lived in the Middle Ages there had been no Corb PES for A Thousand Years by the time he says this in what way is that even relevant to us today and the answer is it does survive have a look over on page number five see for example number 19 writes again no today if you do on afternoon after we put you in again a very extreme reaction to doing something on a of PES put you in because you wanted to do the gardening you wanted to plant the roseb bushes apparently you can't do it on p p afternoon even if you're going to do work for people for no pay you're going to go around and help people work for them for no pay I sorry you're not allowed to do it there are even people that say you can't ask a n you to do work for you on AR p in the afternoon people allow that and says them that is the is this the it is the look at the M number 20 the reason is this is the time that we the now this is not the rambam who is writing as if the bdash was still there like on site the rambam says and then you eat the p and if there's no bdash then you don't need the cor P but here is the Miss Breer he says no we can't do work on P because of the okay and every Jew has to bring the P obviously if they're in and the day that you bring a Corbin is like a personal Y and since all of Cl isra are involved in that therefore there's a Prohibition of doing even today the lake lake when there's no the still stays in place so don't be too quick to dismiss this idea of well it's the time for p because this still impacts on the for example if you're going to have a shave before P because you're not shaving until like so do it before because after has at least of a lot of people don't realize this this is very interesting idea so there are three different reasons given for why there's a problem to e matah on a of P one is because matah will be extra special on S night another is you make a Hecker because it's going to be uh difficult to see the difference you have to have the right for the Mitzvah and a third reason is because we don't want to get into a meal because it's the it's the time for sh the now CL classically whenever you have air of this kind where everyone knows it's prohibited but some people say for this reason or for that reason or for the other reason there areic Naas there areic outcomes that come on from that for example are you allowed to eat um matah ashir what's the problem with matah asir later on so if you look here uh some people will say that matahir is permitted early on of PES it's matah how can you eat it it's of PES so according to the marha you can eat matahir in the morning at least for spim because it doesn't taste the same and you won't have a disappointment when you eat matsah on the night because it tastes different it's a completely different taste others the rambam says no you can't eat matsah or you can rather eat mats air in the morning because you can't fulfill your Mitzvah with mat again they they give this permission to eat Mas but for different reasons one group says it taste different another group says it's not nothing to do with the taste it's about whether you can do the Mitzvah with it okay so what about things that you other things that would fit into this category can you eat can on a of P this is a big Shila okay for many people so what is the reason that you can eat maash so if it's because it tastes different to the regular matah therefore there's no problem of taste like mat not really so not going to take away from the matah experience what about if it's the reason that you can't eat anything that you'd fulfill the Mitzvah with it's about the he and if you fulfill the Mitzvah with it you can't can you fulfill the Mitzvah on Sat night of mat by eating no also not why not because they're boiled because they're cooked and the matah has to be baked are not cooked and therefore most poim hold if you look at number 22 if you cook mat like we do in our countries we make little balls and if you didn't know what they were he tells you they're called or mat or you want to cook mat in in a in a CLE you want to boil it up make kind of mat a pudding you can eat it before the 10th hour again after the 10 10 hour it's a different concern the concern is you're going to get full too much Mata pudding you won't have an appetite does because it's just not called matah and therefore he says kak are okay there were others by the way that said no rasher says you can't eat canak on a of PES maybe because he holds that they taste like mat a little bit don't know depends on your my grandmother Al used to make can on P that were completely different to the can she made during the year obviously they were made of mats but they they were a big Cannonball she didn't make little canak she just made a bowl of soup with one massive canak in the middle okay and little bit of soup around the S which it's it's very interesting that was that was to me as a child that was one of the main differences with pesak and the rest of the year um what what about matzas who which are baked by non-jews what about regular matzas baked under supervision by non-jews and they're definitely 18 minute Matas they're completely kosa PESA but you can't fulfill the Mitzvah of matah on Sat night with those matzas why not because they weren't made sh Mitzvah so they taste like matah and therefore for that reason you would not be allowed to eat them on a p if the problem is mitzvas but you can't fulfill the Mitzvah of sanite with them so for that reason you would be allowed to eat them on a of PES because they're not the same as Mitzvah matsas so you can see these reasons do impact in different ways what about matah cake that you make with matah meal now that's baked so you could in theory fulfill the Mitzvah of a matah eating a Mata cake and therefore maybe you can't eat that on a of P but it doesn't taste like matah because it's sweet and got a honey and stuff and therefore how does that work so that's one interesting discussion what about when are you when do you have to stop eating matah so the says in the morning the magam says maybe the night before so again maybe that's part of this question if the problem is making a Hecker I have to stop and therefore when I start again it's for a mitzah maybe it's enough during the day maybe it's to be maybe how long do you need not eating matah for matah to be special so maybe you need a whole day maybe you need two weeks maybe you need a whole month I don't know so you see that is the that is one of the things that turn on this the Min is that people can eat mat if they most people in this room probably don't need Mata from at least rashesh but there are people by the way who are very negative about that minhag wife and I have this discussion every year this year when I researched I find more more sources to support my position against my wife so that was a it was part of a part of our shom bias you know whatever um but I found more sources on her side as well which was okay it goes with a territory but for example there were those that mock the minhag of stopping eating matah from before A of pesak because it says a of pesak who are you to add on extra it's not RAB him that stop eating it's raikim it's the is the word people who are ignorant stop eating before ER of pesak but it's interesting most people do have that Min and therefore the night before pesak is not going to be really a question for them by the way raim Brisa has a very interesting RI and says that it's obvious you can eat mats to the night before Pak because what does it say it's a nice it's a nice it's a nice proof anyway all of this is interesting enough but I want to get back to now to the point that we started with is what's it got to do with the fiance in her parents' home let's get back to that so the Lush go to page number six the Lush says the following he brings an obvious uh comparison Lush is living in Poland in the 16th century just like a a couple that can't wait for the wedding and they get because they're they're not doing it for the Mitzvah anymore meaning the the relationship between the husband and the wife has to be Mitzvah it also has to be bavana and they're clearly just doing it because they they can't wait he and she for that matter she's part part of this as well are so wrapped up in their promisc promiscuity even with each other you couldn't wait you make under the sanctifying the union the cohabitation of the two similarly someone who eats mat on he shows that he's a tedic person he's a he's a Lous person you can't wait until light night because there areas before you get to the mat which are for bread for mat for caras mat so if anyone ever asks you what are theas your answer is well are you talking about the CH under are you talking about the CH at the site and he says it's the same he didn't make this up by the way it's already in the rav it's in the the idea of having at the site and therefore you give him malus so he says it's it's very similar idea and the Chev BR has reinforce it and that might be why we're not so focused on the issue on ER sukus cuz there aren't chevas on sukus night there is chevas if you like on S night by the way one of my close friends is making AA in a couple of days for one of his children and they actually will have chevas at sanite which is raises an interesting question what do you do where' you bring in the extra cup where' you make the chevas and so he'll have two chevas have the regular Shas and they have the Shas of the S and you can always find people to invite a s i I discussed this with my son who is a very tanak focused mind we had shabas lunch with him and I said what do you what do you think about this idea of of Chas for the matah and and the eating the matah suddenly becomes a much more meaningful and much more intimate idea that that's if you like the consummation that you're you're waiting till the right moment and and am I son Asha looked at me he says well isn't it obvious like you know people who know T think is obvious and said that's the whole point of I said what are you talking about is a poor man's bread that's what means the mat has to be but already make the connection between Oni being poverty and affliction and AA being the man man and wife coming together and having the Mitzvah of them being with each other that is called the Mitzvah of AA and if you don't believe me look what what it says in number 24 says we're going to say on we cried out to God he saw our now theat is he saw our suffering but what do we say on say tonight number prci that was our inability to have own to have to be together with the men and the women it says God saw the Jewish people and he knew he knew no more needs to be said say in a way which is he knew and of course that Adam knew his wife is also a reference to the idea of them being together and therefore what you have is not just Chas but you have a moment of connecting with the matter of which is Resonance of the ability to uh if you like bond in that really intimate way with MIT with Tor and of course shash why do we read shim on S on on on PES shirim is the love song between Hashem and the Jewish people so what's really going on here with this Marshall of the Yami it's like someone who slept with a fiance it's actually very powerful Marshall as to what pesak is all about but there may be something even more than that and for the last 10 minutes or so of the year I want to explore with you an idea that I saw uh uh I was researching this and I saw online um by a s RAV called raim oada I think he lives in America I'm not sure I don't know him um but he had this idea on on a site which was a Sardi saric site and it's it's absolutely fascinating this idea of the Yami that somebody has this illicit and premature relationship in their father-in-law's house so where else do we read about father-in-law's houses the arusa in the father-in-law's house so it's actually fascinating that this comes up right in the Mitzvah of P look at number 26 there's a m 26 on page six 26 and we'll spend the rest of the she on this idea someone who is on the way to or to give a br to their son or to eat their AIS we'll talk about AIS in a minute in their father-in-law's house the and they remember so that they've got in the house that they forgot to destroy so what should they do if they can get back home just destroy it burn it quickly get back to do their Mitzvah then go home and and and get rid of it and if you can't get back in time this is the m we see in the mission of B com this is where we see it you can do B in your mind you can't get back home and you can't get back in time so on your way to I get that that's a very P kind of Mitzvah to be involved in and it's one of the only mitv that if you don't do I get that going on the way to to give a bris to your son so bris and also very connected very connected and that's the other mitzvah for which if you don't perform it the only other positive Mitzvah that a person is so if you wanted to pick two mitzvas which are the Mitzvah that used as an example that if you don't have time to get back to them you can do bits I'd get those two but what's the third Mitzvah someone who is on his way to eat his sudas aisin in his parents-in-law to be's house like where did that come from I mean I can think of a million Mitzvah that I might be on the way to do it suddenly picks that you're on the way to eat your wedding meal for the aisin in your parent-in-law is it coincidence that that is exactly the example given by thei it can't be coincidence I you know I get to learn a lot of T I never even thought two minutes about eating your pudus aisin in your parents-in-law house and then all of a sudden two things jump out of the page the that strike you on it which is very interesting indeed so let's have a look at this in a little bit more detail what is an arusa I'm hopefully running a wedding later on today um and everybody knows that under Thea there are two stages to the wedding there's kushin or Ain which is when they actually become men and wife where he puts a ring on her finger and says then they areally married then there isin is the it's interesting that in kushin is very clearly defined and agreed upon it's when he puts that ring on the finger and she accepts it and he says har which is the stage two of the wedding there are about eight different opinions as to what is it's the bedin it's Thea it's the Talis over their heads it's the chevas it's the room it's the it's interesting is a lot of different opinions on how it works but we do those two things together they used to separate them the gamar says they used to do Ain and then 12 months later they used to when by the time they saved up to make the w cuz you have to save money in order to make a wedding a lot of people don't realize that today they think you just have to ring mom and dad and they can make the wedding you have to save money and then 12 months later you do the nissuin so there was a whole time of sometimes a year that she was an arusa where she's married to the man but she's still living in her parents' home they haven't done the nin uh today we use the word arusa for someone who got engaged that is not correct Hally um the engagement is From harak perspective not really aison it's really quot called shim which is that we intend to get married but aisin is the ring on the finger um however when the woman becomes an arusa she's actually very strongly prohibited to be with the husband look at number 29 Kal Bel AA who has not yet Hadas she is not allowed to to be with her husband on the same level as it were this is rinic prohibition according to most as Aida just like a who would not been to the mikah is not allowed to go to be with a husband again a very strong prohibition the ramban rules that this is a Rabin prohibition number 30 and is prohibited to be with her husband on a level as long as she's in her father's house a parents house and someone who sleeps with his AR they sleep together in the parents-in-law house who doesn't kill oh no yeah you no that only if you P that's when but makas maras by the way if she sleeps with him in the husband's house that might already be nissuin on some level that might already be the consummation of the marriage the point is that he does it when she's in her parents' house which shows that it's illicit that shows that he's not doing it in a way as it were which is uh which is koser um and in fact the BR that we make look at number 32 for a second the we make under the says the who we say under the he says why do we say why does the the make he's telling the that even though you are now AR and you are really prohibited to each other they didn't allow a husband to be together with his until he's been to the okay fine so we all know that it's really not okay for a man to have relations with his arusa in her parents' home did anyone do that the answer is absolutely that was the Minag of the area of Yuda that was what the people in Yuda actually did how so have a look in number 33 so the mishner um by the time of the mishner divides erat Israel into a number of different areas I actually had a chat with the neighbor a friend of our Shuli mishin who does tours knows a lot about these things very interesting I got some perspective from her um the the arit Israel is divided up into certain areas there's yam which after the Romans certainly after the hadrianic persecution was really free of Jews they were not able to be in yusal they were thrown out there's Yehuda which is the area around Jam gon Etc there's the Galil there's aan in trans Jordan and there's there's Dr down south in the ne Etc so the minim in the gal and theim in udah were quite different have a look in number 33 someone who eats with his father-in-law beud in the area of Yuda shal and there were no a him there checking that he's not up to any funny business he can't turn around after the and claim that his wife was not a why because well okay no surprises that she's not a you were with her before you got married because that's what they do in Yuda in the Galil you can make the claim because not together with their wives before but in Yuda they are so too another mishna number 34 what happens if God forbid a woman's husband dies or she's divorced any woman she may not get engaged to a new man the and she may not get married until after three months why does she have to wait three months in case she's pregnant from the first husband you never know who's the child is R says the following so married women from before can get engaged because there's no problem they might get pregnant and a woman who was only in arusa before neb husband died Yu then they can get married straight away because obviously they're not pregnant they weren't married yet apart from those women in yud because they were very familiar with each other before the wedding and in fact this is the reason given in the gar look in the gar number 35 they were different in they allowed the to be together sometime before shortly before they went to the why so they'd be familiar with each other but they would not let them do that in the Galil very interesting they wanted them not to be strangers on their wedding night and therefore they said okay you know have a little bit of beforehand it's okay and in Galil they said it's really not okay but in Yuda apparently this is what they did when did they do it number says it's when they went to make the in the father-in-law's house it was at the party that's when they put them together to do the Y so you see this is actually all coming together because this statement in the Yi that if somebody ate matah it's as bad as this as bad as is exactly what they were coming to criticize that half of the Jewish people were doing in Yehuda which is very interesting in fact the talmi says uh look at tamami number 37 I know we have a few minutes left but we have to learn this Source it's absolutely FAS ating thei says the following why did they have this minan Yuda so the B said it was so they could get to know each other the Yami says a more Sinister reason the Romans decreed destruction on the Jews in yudah because they had a says that Yuda was the one that killed asav you know we have a midrash that it Wasim ban that killed as at the burial at they had another Med that it was so the Romans persecuted the Jews and raped their daughters the they had a Roman soldier Bo who would sleep with the girl before she was allowed to get married now what is that what is that called that's called called Yus prus which is well known as it were that in medieval times in Roman times they used to take away the girl from the and say you are not going to be the person that has a relationship first she's going to be raped God forbid by a Roman soldier so what did they do hu so y made a said we are going to encourage them to be together in the parents' home in order to avoid the Romans taking her because it's too late you weren't the first one you may as well not bother the looking underline and even when the Romans stopped doing this they didn't stop doing the and this you won't read in your okay although you probably they did put it in the hosa's daughter-in-law came proud and Pregnant to the HOA because he followed Minag Yuda he was in he lived in cesaria they followed Minag Yuda rosay and his daughter-in-law was pregnant at the k a remarkable remarkable thing by the way just in parenthesis I found that rura um went uh to from Naples where he lived to erit Isel and he wrote a letter back to the people in Naples about his travels on his way to Israel and on his way he talks about the Jews of poo in Sicily he said this was in the 1500s he says the Jews of poo I went to live in Sicily for a while and they were very strict about certain things but they were not so strict about other things and a large number of the young women that came to Thea were already pregnant under the K now they had no excuse because they didn't live in Yuda but they lived in uh in Sicily okay different things go on in Sicily um but interestingly when this was printed in English they censored out that that line because they didn't want people to think bad of the Sicilians okay okay there's other things you can say but just to finish off to finish off what's this to do with matah what's this got to do with M we see there was a menud and that exact Minag is what the gamorra screams about that it's as bad as if you did this which is what they were doing and the Jews in the gala were trying to stop them doing so we see on the last page and I just mention this outside that one of the other things that the Jews of yehudah did is they were lenient on AR pesak there were different minhagim about working on AR pesak some people didn't work from the night before some people didn't work from the morning in udah they said ah we won't work in the afternoon that's enough already and the Jews in the gal were very upset with them you're not respecting a of PES why might they not have respect expected of PES because they've lost the bash there is noban p it's all foron it's not really and ra ra said he want He suggests that it could be that they were making early pesak as well they were we're eating the matah why not we make early shabas we'll make early PES and it doesn't really matter anymore anyway because all these mitzvas have gone because theban PES is not here anymore and therefore in yudai wants to suggest that they they they used to the start the Seda early not just eat matah on a of pesak but start the whole Seda early and therefore the Yami stands up and screams if you eat matah early on AR P which you guys do it's as bad as sleeping with your arusa before Thea which you guys do and it could be that that's all part of it and there's even when we say on on San night we even make a dra which is you might have thought you could eat matah from rashes no you can't you might have thought you could eat it even during the day no you can't why are we giving those Dres I'm already sitting at night time the the the ha is banging on the head and saying don't ever think you can eat M started say to befor hand you can't you can't make early s again and again it says that and if you actually read that into the the missioner that we saw before you'll see works as well I don't know if this is speculative um or not but it's interesting for sure uh and therefore if you're running out of good conversations at your s then think carefully about whether you want to bring this one up or not okay I wish you a we should please God will meet after PES