Early Shabbat | Rabbi Anthony Manning | June 11th 2025

I'd like to make a start promptly. We have a lot to get through today. I'd like to thank our sponsors for the academic year 2025. This shorelish brand. We're very grateful for the sponsorship and please could I remind you to turn off your phones which is our customary request which is customarily not always followed. So, so if we could just do that, that would be really great. Okay. So, I promised you last week that I was going to revisit or look a new into certain areas. U one of them was Shabas. We haven't talked about Shabas really in the shift for a long time, a long long time. And I'd like to talk about some Shabas issues. Also, some medical ethical issues which we'll get to over the course of the summer. Please God. Uh again we haven't it's it's honestly years and years since we've done anything of that nature and there's so much to talk about. So I wanted to start off with a topic which we haven't looked at for a good seven years and and there's a lot more that I had to say about it now. Uh which is the issue of making early Shabas. Uh it brings with it many many fascinating halaki questions not just on the issue of davening but around the whole concept of accepting Shabbat. What does that mean? and I'd like to look at them with you today. Uh I actually made a few extra put a few extra sources on the sheets since I last since I gave this in. So we'll stick more or less with the sheet that you have here, but the one I'll upload to the OU will be a little bit even further further revised. Um a few extra things. So let's start at the very beginning. Why do we accept early Shabas in the summertime? Because we live in the northern hemisphere, even Israel, which is not that far in the northern hemisphere. Shabas comes in already quite late, 7:30. By the time you sit down to eat, it's 9:00. People who have young children, they're already past their prime uh long before then. Uh and certainly people who live in the far further north, people who live in England. Uh the uh you know, just just in England itself in London, Shabas, if you lit at the regular Shabas candle time, it would be, you know, 9 9:00 9:15. Uh already in uh in in Scotland, it's even later. In Oslo, the summer lighting time is around 10:25 in the evening right now. And if you're someone that lives in Alaska of where there are Jews in Alaska, in Anchorage, and even in Fairbanks, then it gets a little bit ridiculous. So, the reason that we accept early Shabas, honestly, for most people, is convenience. Nobody wants to eat a meal at 10:00 at night. And that's going to be an important factor because if I'm accepting Shabbat just because it's more convenient for my eating schedule, is that the same as accepting Shabbat because I want to bring in its kusha earlier because I want to extend its kusha. That's honestly not why most of us make early Shabbat and then we'll see that that's relevance as well. So let's start from source number one. Um the world was created in a way that is describes first the evening and then the morning. And therefore we understand that the day begins in the first of all it's and then it's boer. So our new day begins at sunset let's say around the arv and it ends at sunset. Now just in parenthesis that's not the only way to read that verse and you should just know and this is a topic which we I don't think we've ever discussed but the rashbam got into very uh uh difficult situations with hishat explanation on that puk the rashbam rash's grandson says no on ashhat level surely it means it became evening and once it became morning that was the end of the first date which actually when you read it like that you think why did I not think of that before and therefore he says on ashhat level the day begins in the morning sunrise the Jewish day goes sunrise to sunrise now he's not suggesting that hakically so I should take that back it's not the Jewish day but thehat in the pos could be that hakically he agrees it's evening to evening and the very fact that he even suggested anything else caused a major uproar especially with the Iban Ezra I don't know if you ever read the Iban Ezra's Garrett Hashabat For the Ibanzra who lived the generation or so after the more or less the same generation as the Rashbam, he was very friendly with Rabenu Tam, the Rashbam's older younger brother, I should say. So the Ibanzra uh writes in his commentary that he was asleep at night on a Friday night. I think he was in London at the time actually. I think he writes he was in London and uh the uh the a dream came into his head and an angel who was identified herself as Shabbat presented it to him uh presented themselves to him and said that you have heretical books on your shelf uh about the Shabbat and the Ezra was in a tunnel in his dream he ran downstairs and he looked for this book and he saw it was the Rashbam's commentary and he said he wanted to rip it to pieces uh even though it was Shabbat because he was so incensed that he realized that this heretical uh statement was in and he writes a whole uh long very dramatic letter about how he felt for I don't think he would have said that word about the idea that this even a suggestion but I just bring that to you as a as an interesting uh tidbit as it were for the Ibanzra he was very upset about it and he goes to the issue of what is phat and how does the rasham understand phat different to the iban ezra the ibanzra is less likely to go against a received hik approach than the rashbam is in terms of how he understands. That's not for now though. There's much more to talk about. So let's take the day begins in the evening and ends in the evening. Now when it comes to uh Shabbat or Yonipur I should say which we'll see flows over into Shabbat. We'll see number two. Shabbat Shabbat the Yonipur is a special day of Shabbat. You have to afflict yourselves. We're not getting into what that is now. But here's the key. You have to start this process on the 9th in the evening from evening to evening. Again, it's clear the day goes from evening to evening. But what's he talking about the 9th? Why do I even need to know the ninth? Gomorra quite well known. Gomorra number three. You might have thought I have to start fasting on the 9th because it says young is on the 9th. The Torah says, "No, it's in the evening. If it's in the evening, maybe I only have to start fasting once it's properly the 10th. It's really nighttime." No, that's also the 9th. You have to somehow straddle those two realities. How does that work? You have to start fasting already when it's still the 9th and go into the 10th through the whole of the 10th from here. He says there is a mitzvah to be Mos from to kesh. I want to take a little bit of the day before and we'll see a little bit of the day after and make them extra kesh. Even though maybe God didn't require that I want to do that more. That's only when the young kipper comes in. And how do I know the same is true? I have to take a little bit from the 11th and make it from this evening all the way to next evening. This only applies this verse to how do I know Shabas as well? It gives the extra word. How do I know this applies to Y as well? an extra word said how does this work final bottom line underlined whenever it says there's a mitzvah you have to add a little bit from and make it kesh okay now what is not included in that list we have we have shabas and we have yont they all say so tishav interestingly there's no there's a rabbitic fast there's no reason in theory to add anything on but also what about rash kodesh is there any idea of toet rash kodesh and the answer is no rash khadesh is not described as shw so why do I care well what happens if shabas is on rash kodesh and I want to make early shabas and I'm davening early on Friday afternoon in terms of shabas that's fine I can dav early but I'm like can I say yavo in mariv and like I want to add on to rash khadesh there's no concept of adding on to rash kadesh rash kadesh is when rash khadesh It's not the day before. That's one interesting question. And there are some people who make early Shabbas who won't make early Shabas when Shabas is for that reason that it doesn't apply apparently to them. Okay, we're only just starting the I brought you in number four. I'm not going to read it inside, but he says maybe that's why we use the phrase. In what way do we make Shabas? And it's interesting in English we use that phrase I'm making shabas which is obvious to us but it's actually I think from this pekk how do we make shabas he says maybe this is what we add on meaning god makes the shabas on the seventh day and we add on a bit from the sixth a bit from the eighth and in that way god it gives a ham and says okay that can also be shabas the question is is it really shabas if I want to bring in shabas early or take out shabas late what if I want to take out shabas like 4 hours later you in the night and just seeing at a kumzit. Is it really Shabas 9:00 on Saturday night? You know, when Shabas went out at 7:30, is it really? So, we'll see. What does it mean that it is Shabas? How do we do that? Uh, etc. By the way, taking out Shabas late has another resonance because there is a source, the Acronim that we have a tradition that the the shamas are in Gehennam and they get a resppite on Shabas. I don't exactly know what this means. All it sounds like a good thing whatever it is that you get a little bit of a respite from gehenna on Shabas. So the longer we can draw out Shabas the better it'll be for those uh you know the shamas that are getting that kind of day off. We can make it a little bit longer for them. That sounds like a good thing uh to help other people for sure. Uh hopefully we won't need that help when the time comes. Okay fine. However, it's not so posh and there's a source which I actually didn't bring you on the sheet, but I just want to read before we get to source number five. Uh, which is a gammoran moed cotton and the garra actually says garabas shabas mishabas precious. It compares with shabas. This is not on your sheet but I'm going to read it to you that got the gummor says there in mo just like we find with Shabbat. The prohibition is not before and afterwards. Sorry. It is prohibited but before and afterwards is not prohibited. It is prohibited but before and afterwards is not. So the Gmorra in moan seems to say no Shabas is Shabas before Shabas is not prohibited after Shabas is not prohibited. Shabas is just what Shabas is. And therefore you have these two gamoras which seem to contradict each other. One of them in we saw in yum says that you have to add on and the other one in mowing cotton says that apparently you do not have to add on and we'll have to work out how we're going to pass on this issue. Why would we add on to Shabas? Rashi says on braces in chapter 2 very clearly because we don't necessarily know in the same way that God does exactly when the day begins. We have benmashes. We have a twilight zone. There's I'm sure there's something deep and philosophical with this as well. God has clear black and white lines. We don't have those lines. So we we're just on the on the safe side. We add a little bit to shabas so that we don't want to impinge on that line. Even though God doesn't need to se Chabas, we need to serve it Shabas. Although the Ran seems to say something else that we add on for extra reasons of Kadusha. So you can pick those reasons either to on the safe side or to be Mosif Kadusha etc. There's clearly an idea that applies. Now let's look at number five. So do we do this? So the Gammorra makes an interesting statement. I'm a so says I want my portion to be shabasi. If only I could be someone that brings in Shabas in Tiberius but takes out Shabas in Cipoi. Now, Tiberius to Ciporei is just about walkable on Shabas and there are sources that say it was in the tomb. There were enough little villages in between that you could Why would you want to bring in Shabas in Tiberius and take out Shabas in Cipo? So, the Mafium explained two things. Number one, Tiberius is very low down and therefore the sun disappears way earlier from Tiberius than it does on the hills and therefore, oh, the sun's going down. I bring in Shabas early. Obviously, if you live next to a big mountain, you don't need to bring Shabas in the minute the sun disappears behind the mountain. It could be 1:00 in the afternoon. But nevertheless, it's going to be earlier and Cipur is on the hills and you can see Shab the sun a little bit later. So, you'll take out Shabas later. So, that's the idea. Bring it in earlier, bring it out later. Maybe it's an east west thing. Tiberius is in the east. So, Shabas will come in that few seconds earlier and then I'll run to a little bit to the west and I'll take out Sha. the same idea that we want to bring it in a little bit earlier. We want to take it out a little bit later. And in fact, this is the let's look at we're going to have a lot of rules. Number six, he says there is an opinion that you have to add on from what does he mean? There is an opinion. Ah, so it's interesting because we all follow this opinion. Why does it start with a Y? So the Morishim say because the Rambam never brings this and that's one of the mysteries in the Rambam. He never quotes the anywhere until Shabas. So the Shukar who at the end of the day is a Rambam devote even though he Pascans like the Rambam, the Rash and the riff. It's really the Rambam. The Rambam is king, not Elvis. Okay, the Rambam. Um therefore he Paskins like the Rambam. The Rambam doesn't say it. Yeah. But that just raises the question, why doesn't the Rambam say it? So some people say, well, because the Rambam holds it's not a Torah mitzvah. It's a rabbitic mitzvah. Okay, he brings all the rabbitic claws in the in the Mishna Torah. That's not a reason to leave it out. And there are some people that want to say, no, the Ram Pascan like that gamorra in Mo Cotton that you didn't have on your sheet. And no, Shabas is when Shabas says and beforehand and afterwards is not prohibited and therefore the Ram and the tour maybe pass him like that. But doesn't he brings down that we do keep now look at this carefully because it's not what you think. So says the the when you add on from when the sun goes down and is no longer visible also mashes begins. That's when you can add on. Now that's not how we do it because as far as we're concerned once the sun's disappeared it's too late. You it's already shabas. You can't add on. It's too late to add on. And this raises the question that we're going to dive into next week, which is the together with most Rishonim held like Rabenu Tam, not like we do today. Now, you'll have all heard of Rabenu Tam that there are people who take out Shabas late. Well, I've got news for you. Rabenuam also brought in Shabas late. He rules later than we do. He rules as follows. We're used to thinking and we'll see that the Nagon passes this way and we'll get into this next week that the twilight zone begins when the sun goes down and it lasts for 3/4 of a mill which is let's say about 13 or 14 minutes. That's the the twilight zone. Rabenu Sam Tam said no no no there's another garra that says that Benosmashes is not 3/4 of a mill but is 4 mil which is 72 minutes. How does that work? So the the Bam says when the sun goes down that's the beginning of the like the process but it's not really there's another 3 and a4 mil. Now a famili is 18 minutes. 3 and a quarter * 18 is uh you know a lot. Yeah. 60 something does over an hour is around an hour before you even get into the twilight zone. According to Rabenu Tam who held like you know he held at the beginning and the end of Shabas you could be driving your car 45 minutes after the sun's gone down and you're not even you're not even in a in a suffix zone. 45 minutes, 50 minutes and therefore the shuk pasc's like that which is not surprising because that was roish shonim and he says that when you add on is from when the sun goes down until the start of bayash is around an hour later now there's almost nobody left that does this I don't know no kabad don't do this quite a few the maybe like whatever you don't see people driving their cars with payers flying in the wind 45 minutes after the sun goes down now the question is If most of the is shown in Pascan that way, why on earth do we not all keep raenut on the way out? Meaning we can be mak as we like on the way in, but when we make havdal at the end of shabas, we're breaking shabas according to raenutam and roonim and the it's a therefore the people who keep reenu are not some crazy who want to keep this weird. They're actually apparently following a very mainstream position. Now don't get me wrong I don't keep I'm not trying to like guilt trip you into keeping but it is a very very sensible part as well and they're mak at the beginning very few people if anybody is is make is lenient at the beginning and you know as well they're at the beginning and they're at the end because we we don't basically passing like at the beginning but who why would you not beesh for at the end anyway so that's when the says you should add on and again we'll see we don't do this the haz in number Still if you want to make it all you can if you want to make a little bit of it then you can also can it's up to you as long as you add on a time which is which as I said for him is even after the sun goes down but not for uses you have to add some time which is definitely to kesh Now it's actually very interesting. How much is sun time? Let's assume now that we're not going to follow rebenu time because we don't. And the when the sun goes down, that's definitely the beginning of sharp. It's not like reain time. So how much do you have to add on? A minute, 2 minutes, 5 minutes, 10 minutes. Is there a specific time that you have to add on? Uh it does anything do? So let's have a little look. Uh now look in number seven. The what does the say the call? It doesn't mean a second. You can't just keep your eye on your watch and like, "Oh, I'll wait 5 seconds before the sun goes down and I won't do any." No, you need a little bit more than that. Has to be something tangible. And if you if you add on the what you add together what you add on before Shabas together with which we'll say like it's 13 or 14 minutes after sunset, not like time, we'll assume like we go around half an hour. So he's saying basically around 15 20 minutes before the sun goes down which together with the 13 14 minutes after sunset which is our twilight zone that's good enough around around a half an hour. Uh and that's more or less where the uh minhagim are. So 18 minutes 20 minutes again before the sun sets which together with benes mashes will get you to around about half an hour. Um which we'll talk a little a little bit in a minute as to as to how that works. I brought you in a footnote here that Rav Moshi Feinstein says at least 2 minutes meaning ideally 20 minutes or so but at least 2 minutes. The avenza says four minutes others say 5 minutes. Again, you should really be bringing in chabas at candle lighting time because that's the advised time. But if you are running a little bit to the wire, you can add on a little bit as long as it's three or four or five minutes rather than a few seconds. When you accept Shabas, do you have to do it verbally? Does there have to come a point when you say it, you say, "Okay, I'm ready. I accept Shabas or not?" So, there is a three-way makus on this. Some people say yes you have to you have to at some point say verbally I'm now accepting Shabas and these are the minhagim that we have of kab shabas where does kabal shabas come from if you gone to the ram and said like what's tunes do you sing for kabala shabas even if you said kabalat shabbat he wouldn't have known what you were talking about they didn't have kabalat shabbat they just haven't we have kabalat shabbat so that we can run into shabbat and add on to shabbat and therefore when we say That's kabalat shabbat or at least mismoat that's kabalat shabbat. The problem that we have though is the way we run our shaw timets is that's usually way after the sun's gone down by the time you get to ma and most people are late for mka and by the time you've done s all the in the world okay and then you get to it's like you know way too it's probably so there are people that want to say no no you should make a point of yourself being shabas when you finish ma even after the silent sha if it's like you look at your watch and say, "Look, time is moving on." Um, and then that's good. The only thing you need to be careful about doing is not being mal Shabas before you dra because then you're really stuffed because then you can't dra it's Shabas. Once you accept Shabas, it's Shabas. Now, can you unaccept Shabas? We'll get to that in a minute. But before but before you dra that's why there are people especially the yakers amongst us who will not say Shabbat shalom before they dra because if they say Shabbat shalom maybe that is enough to say good shabas o I've lost my okay now that's already a little bit on the strict side you should know is mak before ma to say shabbat shalom and after ma to say shabbat shalom he doesn't do anything without having thought it through very very carefully, okay? And asked him once, "Was this Shabbat shalom? Well, I don't want to lose my you know, etc., etc." There are others that say, "No, as long as it's mental, that's okay. A mental acceptance or maybe even just a passive, I'm not doing any." So, even if you never explicitly said it, it's probably okay. Yeah, you talked about 20 minutes. What about the good? So, the shalim actually is there for another reason which we'll see in a minute when we get when we get to that. Um, one other thing I just wanted to say, uh, in Alan Schmwood Rimmon, I don't know if he introduced it, but before we dav Kabala Shabas, we sing a song and the reason we sing that song is so that we can all be Mabal Shabas before so that everybody can actually do that. There's a real again you sometimes you think that's a nice song. Why are we doing it? The reason is very specific. Okay, let's go on the source number eight. Um the misher says from what we've said you have to be very careful not to do any once the sun has setah even for a mitzvah you can't do it you can't light candles once the sun's gone down you can't make shabas you can't cook once the sun's gone down you really missed it you have to finish all the before the sun goes understand it cuz then you're into the twilight zone and that's not good. He said good advice which I don't always get to follow myself. Don't leave it till the last minute. He says look when the sun is in the tops of the trees that should be a sign to you that it's nearly shabas. You shouldn't still be on your computer. Okay, as my wife would tell me it's time. Okay. someone who wants to be he's adding on a little bit more now maybe not just 30 minutes including but a half an hour before the sun goes down which will be like your 40 minutes including okay or at least 20 minutes before the sun goes down because then you can be according to everybody and therefore you end up with this now sort of the the the inflation of how long you have to deep uh before Shabas 18 minutes, 20 minutes, 25 minutes, 30 minutes, even 40 minutes. Interesting the 40inut uh uh concern the the sha of yushim is because there are those that say you should wait a half a hour before and in the summertime a hakic hour dividing between you know we'll see morning and night we'll see what that is is more than 60 minutes. So half a a halakic hour will come up to more like 40 minutes of regular time. That's really where 40 minutes comes from. Next week we'll talk about the shittita of the uranium, which we're not going to get into now because it'll take us too far. We still have a lot to do. Um okay, fine. Is toes shabas really shabas? I make early shabas. I come home from shaw. It's still light. We make kdesh. Is it really shabas or am I kind of It's as if it's shabas. I've taken on myself that I'm keeping Friday cahu that it's shabas. You want us to walk back and show and see all these people driving. Right. Correct. So is it is it really is it really shab? So let's have a look at number nine. So number nine is a very interesting thing. Okay. You might think that the area the time of the you've added on is not in the in the prohibition. It's like maybe But it's actually a laugh. It's a negative mitzvah. You might say that the negative mitzvah of not doing has already kicked in when I add on to Shabbat. He says, "No, not even when it comes to the not not only the the of but the prohibition of the the actual negative prohibition not to do is when it's definitely not what you add on and not what you add on to." So what is the status of that time that I've had in I brought in Shabas an hour and a half before it it it's not actually Shabas. So there are two ways of looking at it. One way of looking at it is that there is a separate mitzvah of being adding on kadusha. That's the mitzvah I'm doing. I have now done the mitzvah of and some people say it's a Torah mitzvah of adding on to Shabas and that's why I'm bound by it. It's a separate mitzvah. It's got nothing to do with Shabas itself directly the mala but it's it's another mitzvah. By the way, this raises the question, are women obligated in to Shabbat? So you'll say, well, of course they are because women are obligated in all the dimin of Shabas. Yes, women are obligated in the dim of Shabas, but they're not obligated in the denim of Friday necessarily. Let's say it's a positive timebound mitzvah to add on Friday. Okay, well that's not part of the Shabas package. It's a positive timebound mitzvah. It's a little bit like the discussion about Havdala, a women obligated in Havdala. And there are many women who are very careful to ask a man to make havala. Why? Because is havdalah a din in in Shabbat? In which case women are part of the package. Everyone who's in Shabbat is in in for a penny in for a pound as they say in the garra. Okay. So women women are obligated in that. But if if havdal is part of m Shabbat it's a positive mitzvah you do on Saturday night well it's a positive timebound mitzvah. Women will not be obligated by that. It's a Saturday night mitzvah not a shabas mitzvah. The same is to Shabbat. What is the status? So maybe it's a separate mitzvah. Let's assume women are obligated, which is what most posts say. So what is it? So maybe it's this extra mitzvah. Maybe it's a ne I'm going to behave as if it's Shabbat and that's really binding on a posit in a positive mitzvah. I'm not, you know, have a mitzvah to keep my ne. But once you say that, then it raises some interesting questions. What if I change my mind? What if I bring in early Shabas and then I realize oi they I've forgotten to do something really important and can I run to the rov down the road and get hatus nadarim can I put together a little base in okay I need three people I've taken on shabas I need three men I want to untake shabas can I do hataris nadarim and then then it's oabas if it's a ne then why not if it's a nair can the husband be may fear the neair of the wife if the wife makes a nether on the day that the husband can uh hears about it, he can enul it as long as it's something that affects the marriage. So she says she lights candles, she says good shabas everybody and she thinks there I forgot to put the potatoes in. Okay. Can the husband say, "Don't worry, darling. Mu, you're all finished. You're all gone. Do the potatoes. We've got to eat potatoes on Shabas and then light candles afterwards." Or is that just not possible? What's that? Why can't I eat potatoes? Oh, I never even thought of that. That never even occurred to me. That is an entirely different share. Okay. Interestingly, every woman in this room was thinking that and every man in this room is thinking, "Yeah, can he be made for the nater?" That's a good good question. Yes. When my husband took on early men Yes. Shabas, I waited until I went to Good. So, we'll get to that. When the husband takes on early Shabas, that does not bind a wife to take on early Shabas. But we're asking something a bit different. When she takes on Shabas, can he be made for the Nadic? And there was a case in Shalai many years ago where a baby was meant to have its bris on Friday. Okay. And the the Moy came, looked at the baby, and said, um, the baby is yellow. There's no bis, no bris. You can't have the bris on Friday. We'll do it on Sunday. Fine. Then the Moy later on in the day was Mabal Shabas. He brought in Shabas and somebody else, another moy looked at the baby on Friday afternoon and said, "The baby's fine. Today is Yamashminny. It's Friday. It's a Friday bris. Do the bris now." So they called the real Mo, the mo that they'd agreed that they would do the bris with and said, "The baby's fine. Come quick. We quick. We get it in the mitzvah. Yamashmitti, we can get it in before Shabas." He said, "I've I've already accepted Shabas. It It's already Shabas." So they said, "Well, one second. A bris overrides Shabas. So even if you've already accepted Shabas, you can still perform a bris on the eighth day." He said, "No, no, a bris overrides Shabas when it's Saturday shabas." A bris doesn't override Shabas when it's Friday Shabas that I've accepted early. He said, "I'm not going to do it." And he didn't do it. And they did the bris on Sunday. Later they asked Revelash, "Is was this right? What should we have done?" He says, "No, no, no. the Moy should have done hatim we could pass. It's a blo because he says but we can assume that the the tof shabas is a ne he'll do he'll be shabas he'll do the bris and then he'll be mab shabas again very interesting so yes sir whole question bo down by actually changing the status of the day correct correct and by the way in many respects we say you're not changing the the status of the day I brought you some interesting examples in the footnote even when you bring in shabas it's still in many ways Friday for example if you forgot to count the omare on Friday and you've been mabal shabas the next day you've dav even is it too late to count Friday's omare no actually just because you're behaving as if it's shabas maybe as a na maybe as a special mitzvah it's still Friday on a certain level you can still count the omare there are other things as well for example a woman forgot to do a heftikara which could be quite important in terms of when she's going to mikvah and then she says oh I was mab shabas am I too late for Friday. No, you're not too late for Friday. If a woman sees bleeding in terms of counting her days and it's after mabal, she's mabal shabas, she can say, "No, I started on Friday and that can count my days from Friday." There are many examples of that nature. Um, if a baby is born after cababala shabas on Friday afternoon, right at the last minute before Shabas, when is the bris? Friday. Friday. The baby's a Friday baby. Ah, everybody was Macab Shabas. It was before Shia the baby is a Friday baby. So even if you're Makab Shabas in many ways that is still uh it's still Friday in some respects. Okay. How early can you be shabas? Let's go on. Source number 10 says the you have all the way back to what is so is 1 and a4ic hours before the end of the day. It's not very complicated. You divide the day. We'll see what the day means from into 12 from beginning to end. 12 hakic hours. One and a quarter hours before the end, i.e. 10 and 3/4 hours into the day. That's plaga. Then from then on you can accept Shabas. But before then you cannot accept Shabas. Why not? Because before you can't even daven. We'll get to that in a minute when we see that. And therefore plaga is the earliest you can ever say it is the next day. And the mission brewer says that's how we pass and therefore if you were to bring in shabas before plan and you need to check the times if you're making early shabas you need to check the times then it's nothing we pass and it's nothing we'll see in a minute and very interesting which maybe say otherwise but we say sorry you lit candles too early you have to put them out and light a game of the braha you haven't mar too early if you bring you have a shabas early shabas at 2:00 in the afternoon sorry it doesn't do anything it's before it's too late and therefore When we make these early shabases, you the woman has if she's lighting candles, she can't light candles before they go off to shul for early shabas because they're going to dava. We'll see in a minute before and it's too early to be mal shabas. She has to wait a little bit. Like you said, she doesn't have to bring in shabas early just because he's doing early shabas. Does she have to have the candles lit when he comes home? Preferably. Rav Moshi says it's better that the candles are lit cuz it's not just for her, it's for the whole house and he he shouldn't come home from shore. Good shabas everybody. She's still running in the shower and you know lighting the candles. That's a little bit says it's it's not ideal. Okay, I don't know if it's necessarily completely OSA but it's not ideal. Nevertheless, she can't light the candles before the before. That's very important. I mentioned for there there we'll come back to that. There are certain times when people don't want to keep make early shabases. There's no such thing as to rash khadesh. What about a yortite? Someone has yight on shabas and they say okay we're making early shabas. Who said there's tophe y site? Meaning if the yacht site's on shabas, the yacht site's on shabas. If he's going to daven from the um and say I'm dabing because you know it's my father's yacht site or something, then who says he can do that on Friday afternoon? It's not the yacht site. Oh, but I brought in Shabas. Yeah, you brought in Shabas. Are you going to say the face the Namas in Ghan? Okay. So maybe for the Nishama, let's say my father's not in Gehennham. Okay. You know, he's somewhere else. So he doesn't bother him. So it's not Shabas yet. Interesting. Um what about bar mitzvah boy? The bar mitzvah boy is on shabas boy bayan and they say to him ops you'll dav for us can he make early shabas I mean the bar mitzvah is there's no such thing as toph bar mitzvah this tophe shabas it's a kadusha thing who says he can davan marif from the alm as a 12y old he's missing two or three hours an hour it's you're not bar mitzvah yet oh but I brought in shabas but does that mean you're 13 no you're still 12 you know and 364 4 and a half days. Yes. Since you brought up the issue of when an early Yes. As far as I know, people in New Yes. say yes, they do say correct. Why would that be any different saying? Okay, good. I'm not saying it's definitely a problem. I'm saying there are people who hold. I believe it was Rav Joly, I think, who said it's okay. Uh if you say it's, you know, but yeah, put it in the footnotes. Okay, let's go on. I've got a lot I a lot I want to cover and I certainly don't want to talk about this for two weeks. Okay, fine. Uh let's go on to source number 12. There's an interesting statement in source number 12. Says the Gmorra Rav Geneva this was Rav's another's house. He went to this other person's house but still Shabas for Shabas and heaven early Shabas. He made early Shabas. Oh if Rav can make early Shabas then I can make early Shabas. Right. Not so fast. Now we learned from this. Shabbas we learn from this that it's possible to dare on Shabas early. Now Rashi says Rashi understands that he's bringing in early Shabas. He davened early on Shabas. Um however it's not so straightforward because um it may be that he was just dabing early because he always davened early. Meaning the story says he davened Marv a little bit early on Friday. Well, maybe he also dab marav early on Thursday, Wednesday, Tuesday, Monday and Sunday as well. When is the time for marav? When do you dra? And that leads to a very interesting question. Look with me please in source number 15. So the Mishna when he comes to says is until nightfall says no ma is until 3 and a4 an hour and a quart and a quarter before uh the evening. So that's the time you have all the way till the evening and you and says no ma stops earlier and the Rambam explains used to be used to be an optional still for women today very few women d mar on a regular basis it has a different status so the Torah the the mission there says mariv doesn't have its own fixed time whenever mka finishes there's man for that that's when mar starts so there are two approaches you can either dk all the way till let's say sunset and then mar begins or you can da till plag an hour and a quarter before and then mar begins then can you mix and match can you say well I'll do a bit of this and I'll do a bit of that etc so the garra doesn't make a choice between these two look at number 17 we can see now and since davened early we saw that he did this on Friday either because it was special or because he always did The gar says, "No, it's because he holds that marriage begins early. He would have done that on a Wednesday and a Tuesday and a Monday as well. But we see other would not dav early. They would only dab. So that sounds like you have to wait till nightfall for mar. You can't d from plag. So the garra says what are we going to pass? And interestingly, since there's no decisive, you know, conclusion in the Gmorrah. Either this way or that way, you get to choose. If you want to do like this view, you can do it. If you want to do like that view, you can do it. Meaning you get choice. If you ever complain, I don't feel I have choices in life. This is a choice. You can decide. I want to pass in the plag straight after that. Or I want to pan the and straight after that. you choose. It's your life. Go to source number 18 says basically I'll cut it short because I'm not going to have time to read all the long shot all the long sources. The says you can choose but you make a choice for life. You make a choice for life. You choose. You know the big moment as a bar mitzvah boy. What's it going to be then? You going down or you going? And then you stick to it and that's you for the rest of your life. He says if you're in a pickle and you re you realize that like you've messed it up and you've left either you can as an exceptional thing you can go like the other opinion that day but really you've become an early man or a later man and you have to make that choice and he said is to wait until to daven the ra comes in and says okay I agree that you have to make a choice but our min is to dav early. Now there are more live further north so presumably in Poland they were not going to wait till all the time to dav he says but you still have to make a choice. Now are we mak like that? Do we say to people okay make a choice and subscribe which you going to do? The answer is no. We're not mak like that. People can do one day like this one day like this one day like that. Sometimes they like to drain at 2 o'clock and the next day they'll say okay works me better to dra. That's fine. We don't make you make a choice. But on the same day, you can't have your cake and eat it. You can't drag and then say, you know what, I'll dare early before. So, you can't do that because then you're passing like nobody cuz nobody says that. Nobody says you can do both. That's completely contradictory. Ah, but we do. We do. So, the Mishna Brewer brings down says it's not very good to do this, but when you have a minion, and you certainly shouldn't do this if you're on your own because you've got no excuse. You can always dab on whatever you choose. But if you're in a minion and the only way you can get a minion is by doing it at a time where it's like tarted assassin both of them, okay, that's the only way you can get a minion. That's the only way you can get a minion. And that's actually what happens in a lot of communities in they have an every night at 7:30 or whatever it is. They have a miniv and min after plag. Let's say plag is seven and marav is before na then and it's a big tuml. But that's the only way they're going to get a minion. more and more the more yeshiva crowd is becoming more particular that they the ma is exactly timed to be exactly before plag and marav is exactly after plag or at least you time it in the so that marav's at least after the sun goes down it's at least in venmoshious and I've had a lot of people do that but really you shouldn't be mixing and matching uh it's really not ideal but that feeds into the whole Friday story as well so why doesn't everybody make early shabas it seems like a perfect thing to do because the villigorn was very against it. Have a look in source number 21 and then we'll see a beautiful which I think you'll find very interesting. Says uh the uh this is the commentary of the vagonisk. He says you have to dive when it's dark. He doesn't like people ding early even if it's shabas even if you're a yak. Now if you live in the far north that's quite inconvenient. I remember when I was uh in law school, I was in a place called Chester and there was no minion that daved earlier and I was on my own. I'd have Mariv on my own every single night and in the summer in the summer it was like 10:00, 10:15, 10:30, you know, I needed to get my beauty sleep and and and you know, go to bed. Uh but I, you know, we we managed but he says that's why a lot of people turn around and said, "No, you cannot davon Mariv earlier. You can only make shabas when mariv is at naf because generally speaking and in Israel, I think they're very particular about that. most places it's very rare that you get a a marav minion before n okay it's almost always after n and that's how it works have a look at this trumasades with me because I think this is a lot of fun number 22 the trumasades he lived um in um uh in Germany uh in central Europe I think more in Austria in the 15th century and he says as follows shila number 22 when it's a long summer day but you He says around where we live, people are davening Shabas 4 hours before Shabas comes in. 4 hours. That's way way way before plague. Way before. He says, "How can they be doing this? What's what's with Marv and what's with the schma?" Meaning these people are saying the schma hours before it gets dark. Are they saying the shar again when they get home? Who knows? Maybe they're not. How can we justify this? Because I see doing it. You'd never get away with this today. Doing a Shabas afternoon, you know, and mar 4 hours before Shabas comes in. But he says he said, "This is what's happening all around me." And look what he says. We have no way of explaining how they do this. shots. We don't know. And maybe you can even bema now we don't do this today. We repeat the but maybe you can argue that you can be the nighttime even from plag and we that's from plag okay we follow we live in Europe if you want to wait till you look like a big so that's very interesting he says don't you cast dispersions on the fact that we Gavin Mariff early from plaque not earlier and you say I'm going to wait till nightfall Mexicanure it looks like you're from the whole Ashkanazi population and by the way Raen Kananel said the same thing in in North Africa they used to dav earlier as well and people who insist on daving married late and make out that everybody else is wrong how can you do this you're all wrong how can you turn around and say that kahill is wrong that's called arrogance it's religious arrogance it's frunkite in its worst sense he says you can't do that okay but that's from clang that's a whole different story after the ellipses. You can't justify this min that we have in Austria based on the Talmud. It has to be from plaque. I'm going to make a I'm going to try though cuz again he's faced with a problem. There are in Austria who are davening early Shabas 4 hours before it gets dark and there's no basis for it. But I said I've got to find some reason to justify it cuz how can everybody be wrong? So look what he says. So this is my this is my tribe. People are very weak. The the whole world is very weak. I mean it's interesting maybe after the black death. This is not so long after the black death says there's a lot of weakness in the world. The Jews are hungry. They need their food. They're starving. is like my grandmother wrote this uh chuva actually they need to eat on this Friday they can't wait till this night but it's night time at 10:00 if you tell people they can eat early and not make shabas yet they won't come to at all tell people so so have a bite to eat early and come later to shul that's not happening about to eat uh is the end of the day no one's coming to And that's why a lot of people don't want you to eat at all on Shabas in the afternoon because you won't you're not going to come to so it won't work to eat early and therefore the the the scholars weren't able to stop the people. they people just did it because there's no other choice. And he says there's even evidence for this but you may raon says also writes that people used to make early shabas in Babylonia maybe even two early shabas and he says just the last three lines I also heard once he picked up in the yeshiva and it was from a reliable source that he heard that in the ancient days maybe 100 or 200 years before this was in the 1400s. Go back to the 1200s or so. What did they used to do? The creme. Where's Kremes? Kremes is on the Danube. Okay. It's in Austria on the Danube. I looked it up. It's a little bit northwest of Vienna. Paloo. They used to don. It was so early in the day that the roth of creme who was one of the greatest early and all the good strong people of the the the people in the town. They went for a after dinner by the Danube and they got all the way home before it even got dark. So I heard that there were raon in cremes. He says they used to dav so early that they davened, they ate, they to the danub, they smooed and they kibitz and whatever they did and they came home and it was still not gear. You heard it here. You heard it here. Now you'd never get away with that now. Uh and the are clearly pas that it's wrong. Uh the orulan the orulan brings this and says okay we don't pascan like this way but like you know people did this no one's interested anymore. Uh it is uh it is way way way too early. Okay let's talk about a few other things before we finish. Um and then maybe I'll just mention them more outside than reading in the sources. There is an entire debate which we'll talk about a little bit next time as to when you count the halakic hours. Do you count from sunrise to sunset or do you count from dawn to nightfall? And we are used to this. It's we often have two zman. What is the end of ka in the morning? There's the magnavan which everybody is like well that sounds a bit early on shabas morning. I don't like the look of that. And then there's the gro which is oh barakashem we'll we'll go like the gro. Okay. It's a little bit later. The Magenav Ram is starting early and therefore his even though his shao his hakic hours are a bit longer he starts so early that he ends up being an earliest man. Do you have to be concerned for that? Because if you go like this mag enough ROM that you start early and end later to calculate then plaga won't help you because plaga ends up being more or less when the regular candle lighting time is. And that's another reason why people say we don't like making early shabas because if plaga really is the magnan calculation where you start early end later to get your halakic hours then it's just too late it's way too late and therefore you know why would we even do this we don't gain anything now is is that right do you have to worry about that calculation so there's an interesting fellow a rob that wrote a book called the great zmanim debate called aronautis I think that's how you pronounce his name I heard him on a podcast when I was in America just now a very good podcast called Swarim Chatter. Someone made people listen to it. Anyway, they he interviewed he about his book and he goes through the astronomy and all of the different shiat and he says look this idea of counting from the earliest till the latest this mag what we call the magnam first of all he says the magnanav only said this for keshma in the morning because it's dice he didn't say this for other times okay where that comes up for example on pes shabas how early do we have to finish ours you know going to be m for this he says no he never said it for that and he said if you look in the lvush and And the V Nagon, they completely dismiss this as being a complete error. They say it's just astronomically wrong. It's not this rabbi that says this or me. The Vagon says because what? Because you have an equinox. What's the equinox? What does equinox mean? Equal day and equal night. Says the equinox. The way that you calculate the manim is based on the astronomy. It's not some abstracted system. And on the kufot of the equinox, in the March and the September equinox, the day and the night are equal. And if you calculate from sunrise to sunset taka, they are equal. But if you calculate from dawn to nightfall, they're nowhere near equal. So is an equinox. There's no such thing as an equinox. You're going to say, well, they don't have to be exactly on that. They just dismiss it. He says, no, you don't have to be worried for it and therefore I'm not telling you what to do. And clearly other posters are worried, but this this uh this fellow was very dismissive. He says, look, it's astronomy is wrong. He wants to say that the sparadim in the middle ages had much much better astronomy than the Ashkanazim. The Ashkanazim living in northern Europe in the 12th, 13th, 14th century were, you know, they didn't really have the Greek misora on this. The people living in Morocco in Barbell, they had they had real astronomy. Maybe they could see the stars better. I'm not. it doesn't quite work because even if you're living in France, you can see when the day is is equal to the night. you know, Rabbay Nutan sitting there in a field in in uh you know, in Pepon, wherever he's living, can just spend one day in the middle of March or September, sit outside and look, you know, c okay, they didn't have a watch. They had a sun dial. Okay, it was always cloudy. You know, you can you can try and work out whether this kind of fits or whether it doesn't really fit. Anyway, a couple of other things before we finish. Even if you make early Shabas, you still have to say the schma again after it gets dark. If you're a man, if you're a woman, you don't have to, but it's not. There's no reason not to. But if you're a man, you have to say the schma. We do not rely on those opinions that say you can say the shar already from plag and the brings down you have to say the shma. What about starting a meal in the for the that's an interesting thing. There's a that says that in the half hour before when you have to say the a man shouldn't sit down and make kamoti because he's going to forget to say keshma. Now where does that leave your early shabas? You know your husband goes to shul makes early shabasm everything. He comes out, he goes, "Oh, I'm sorry. It's actually now within the half hours, man, before the I'm going to we're going to have to wait for 40 minutes before we make a mozzy." Like, what was the whole point of making early shabas? The kids are crawling up the walls. Okay. So, do you have to be for that? So, if you manage to get in early before that half hours, man, then it's fine. Then you can say shar at the end of the meal. I always put my watch on my shabas on my other arm so that it's a reminder. You can put something on the table says like, you know, say the schma or something. That's good. The mission brings down that if your family's going crazy and it's uh everyone's upset and it's shalom bias then okay you can you can say you can start the meal within that half hour but then he says really you should keep your eye on the time and if the as soon as this man comes you should say the shaman in the middle of the meal because you started really like in the wrong time but okay if that's okay um a couple of other things there is this whole and I brought you in source number 29 there were people that said they didn't want to say kdish in the first half hour of the night. Why? Because of planet Mars. Mars is rising in the astrology. And therefore there were people who used he said in the non-Jewish world used to sit and cry in the first half hour of the night because it was a dangerous time. Mars is the god of war. It's a dangerous time. It's a time of danger. And he says there were people who said maybe we shouldn't tackish during that. He goes absolutely ballistic. And he says like no way in the world you are going to tell me that I can't make kiddish because sh go and sit there and then cry because Mars is rising. We don't we're not subject to the stars in that way. And therefore he completely dismisses it. Okay, last couple of things. What about eating your meal while it's still Friday? Okay, I brought in Shabas. I accepted the kadusha. That's great. But am I y the sha sudas on shabas? I have to eat three sudas on shabas. And does it count if one of them is on Friday? Is it when you start? Is it when you start? So certainly if you finish and it's already dark, everybody's happy. But what if you finish already earlier? Look at the rabbi in uh in Cremes who had already finished and gone for a walk and come home like so the Mr. Bur says, "Look, it's better to have a kazias at least when it's dark already. Maybe a kaz of bread is even better." But usually I find even when we make early shabas, the meal schle on easily so that it's already dark. But maybe you can keep an eye on that. Couple of other things. Can you ask a Jew who has not yet been makabal shabas to do things for you when you've been mabbal shabas? This is very very common. And the answer is absolutely you can. And everybody agrees on that. And it's more lenient than a non-Jew. If I accept early shabas, I can't ask a non-Jew directly to do things for me because it's called a mirror. I'm not allowed to ask non-Jews directly to do things and benefit from them. But that's because this non-Jew doesn't have his or her own Shabas. They're just part of my Shabas. But another Jew who has a completely different valid definition of when Shabas is starting for them, it's just not Shabas. They have an independent Shabas. And therefore, you can for sure ask long as it's not obviously when they're meant to be accepting Shabas. But you, excuse me, you can ask a Jew to do Malaka for you on when you've brought in Shabas early. Um, I used to have the job when I was living in London as the gaba of the Shaw to find a non-Jew in the street on Shabas afternoon to turn on the fans that the caretaker always used to turn off and we were schwitzing in the shawl and you try to find someone who you know is non-Jewish walking down Henden you know the street on Shabas afternoon it was it was I had so many examples where people said they were not Jews and they were whatever there's m the last question the last question just before we finish the last question because it's nearly time is what about women so Ra Rav Mosha has a chuver. It's the last source on the sheet. I'm not going to read the whole thing through obviously, but Ra Mosha Fis has a chuver where he's uh he's asked if the husband accepts Shabas early, does the wife have to as well? And this was your point before. And he says basically, no, she does not have to accept Shabas early. She can do her own thing. He said, she said it's better if she's doing malas for him that she doesn't do them after he accepts Shabas. He says, but even that's a bit of a and the shabas says like it's not really, you know, exactly right. Uh and he says but but when he gets home from shul already it should be like a shabistic atmosphere. And then he says but it could be actually that this is completely different. Um if the community accept let's say you live in a town and there's one community in the town and they c that community accepts early shabas. This is a very important point. It may be then that you don't get a choice because the says that you are dragged after the community in the town. There's one shaw they make early shabas. You can't make late shabas then necessarily unless maybe there's a very good reason. Um but in most places that Jews live there are at least two jewels. The one they go to and the one they don't. And therefore if one of those shors is making early shabas and one of those false is making late shabas so then then then you're good to go. Yes. What about the commandment you should not add and detract from Torah. Okay. So that only I understand but that only applies in a in a situation where the halakic system doesn't encourage you to do that. You could ask that about every dabon. The rabbi said I have to nail light Friday can. Well the Torah never said that. So are you adding on? No. that part of the Torah system is to accept the the the rabbitic law system. It's one of two of the 613 mitzvah. So, the Torah only says not to add on when there's no legitimate reason for adding on. You just want to have Shabas on Sunday as well. But when there's a whole mitzvah to add on, there's no problem to add on. Um and then Re Mosha just finishes and he says maybe the whole thing of adding on early Shabas is not the way that they talked about it because we're just doing it for convenience. We're not doing it because we're holy. We're not doing it because we want more kadusha in our lives. We're doing it because it's just you like annoying to eat late. He says maybe then like who said the wife is bal dragged into that at all? He wants to do that because it's convenient. Fine. She wants to keep on doing because it's convenient for a little bit more. Fine as well. Yes. Last question then we must go. Friday night. Yes. We don't have to say again. No. Because Kdish depends on Shabas and you've made Shabas and now it's Shabas. Okay. We'll end there ladies and gentlemen. Thank you so much.