Conversion | Rabbi Yitzchak Breitowitz | November 4th

Hi, good morning everybody. Um, yeah, dedication. Yeah. Uh, first I just want to announce the dedication. The share today is sponsored in loving memory of Lionol Freriedman whose 15th yard site is the 15th of Mares by his family. May the debra elo nishmatau and uh as well dedicated anonymously for the rafu of Avelina Batgalina. Again, may she have ra Israel. Uh we were looking again at some of the more personal letters of the Rambam. Just uh turn this on. And uh the one last one we were looking at was the famous letter that he wrote to Oaja Hager. Vaja Hager uh was an Arab who converted to Judaism and he went through some difficult situations even today and maybe even more so then converting to Judaism from Islam may actually be a very significant risk to your life. But in addition to what he might be getting from his non-Jewish people, he was getting a lot of flack from Jewish people. And in particular, you'll remember that a rabbi gave him a psak that when he ded the amida, he should not say elosu, the god of our forefathers, a miscra, and yakov are not your forefathers. Uh you're not from them. uh you should rather say loco Israel. Uh now the truth of the matter is um this is actually based on a Mishna. That's the last thing we said. The Mishna says by beorim that when a gear brings bikorim uh he should not say ovi that yakov I'm sorry love on the army and tried to destroy my father because it's not your father and therefore a does not read the para bikorim at all he just brings the bikurim so the rabbi applied this by analogy now the ram's point was that the tom shami actually says we don't follow that mishna and Therefore, the fact that the Mishna says it does not mean it's a the Rambam had a shami the other way. But then the Rambam explains this philosophically by saying that anyone who follows the teachings of Arau is in fact a child of Ara. And that's why to this very day uh a gear is always denominated as Ben Ara. Interestingly enough, there's all sorts of shilas about adopted children. Uh what do you write in a cassua? How are they called to the Torah? I mean, let's imagine a couple adopts a child. And Raosha Feinstein actually has a chuva. Interestingly enough, that although in theory it certainly is a greater mitzvah to adopt a Jewish child than a non-Jewish child, but for practicalities, it is actually easier to adopt a non-Jewish child and then convert the child as a minor. And the reason, this is kind of a digression, but I think it's interesting. And that is because a Jewish child, if you don't know the parents, might theoretically be the product of adultery or god forbid even of incest. And as a result, the child might be a momser uh who would not be allowed to marry most Jews. Uh so mom is now, of course, even a mom is entitled to a home, so that's fine. But there will be marriage complications. Masha came if you adopt a non-Jewish child and convert the non-Jewish child that erases any taint in the background. Uh and as a result there will be no problem of mamut. So therefore for technical reasons uh it is easier to adopt a non-Jewish child and convert than to adopt a Jewish child who may have the status of a mamzer or an asufi which means a foundling which is a sufficer. Now one of the shilas though about adopted children is okay let's assume you adopt a baby and the baby underos conversion and there is a procedure to convert even newborn babies. It's an interesting type of conversion. Uh they go to the mikvah, they have circumcision, the parents, the adopted parents agree to keep the mitzvot etc. But this is the only type of conversion that the child has the right to renounce when he becomes bar mitzvah or bas mitzvah if it's a girl. Normally conversion is a one-way street. You convert to Judaism, you can't convert out. Even if a Gare stops keeping the mitzvot, they're still Jewish. They're like any Jew who stops keeping mitzvot. But when one is converted as a minor, they do have the right to renounce. Now, I do want to correct a a popular misconception. A lot of people say the person must reconvert when they become bar mitzvah, go to the mikvah again, and the like. That is incorrect. They don't have to reconvert. It's the other way around. they have the right to renounce. If they don't renounce, they are automatically Jewish by virtue of the initial conversion. Okay? So there are all sorts of shilas about this. But the one issue I want to focus on because it's connected to the Rambam's letter is how is such a child called to the Torah? Because technically uh the the child is Ben Abraham or even Bas Abraham, not Sora. And there's a girl is also called Bas Abraham although sometimes they put Arab visor but but technically it's still going to be Abraham. Uh so the question is uh when the child is bar mitzvah how are they called to the Torah? So that's a that's a very big maflokus. Some say that even though legally, hahically, so to speak, the child is Ben Abraham, but if the Jewish parents raised the child, uh the child is permitted to be called up to the Torah uh by the father's name, uh especially if uh using benavra might cause a little embarrassment or the like. However, that's a dispensation only for calling up the Torah where we have a certain flexibility. Uh when it comes to the documents like a kuba or regette where you do have to have the right names or the document is puzzle. So there you do have to put Ben Abraham or Bat Abraham uh Ainu. Uh but but some allow a little bit of finagling additional language which makes a little awkward uh which is really just to honor the uh the parents who raised the child. So it might be saying ben au ben let's say shalom hamedlo shalomo that's the Jewish father's name hamedlo. Now I'm not going to address putting mother's names in that has nothing to do with adoption. I mean that that could be an identical issue in every case as you know the more aent guard put in the mother's name as well if that's what you do you can do it here too I'm not I'm not addressing that issue but I'm just addressing the idea that there are hikic ways in which you can incorporate uh both the benavraham because of the conversion and the uh adoptive parents but you have to use the appalachian ham Godlo who raised the child. Yeah. >> Why would you want to advertise that someone is a for such attention that that's what you do? You said it could be Ben, you know. >> Well, well, again, I mean the Yeah. >> Well, well, okay. First of all, yeah, I understand. And and certainly when the cassua is read, uh, you know, the cassua does not have to be read the way it's written. That that's an important rule. For example, a lot of situations, the kala may not be a virgin. Uh, even though she was never married, uh, you know, premarital relations and the nus of the kubua for a non- virgin is different. But uh when you read the kubua, the rav that reads the kubua should be experienced enough to either mumble. I'm very good at mumbling myself. Uh or or or literally you can even read it the sulab etc. And the same thing would be true for any name. The only thing is as I say in a document it's a legal document you do have to have accuracy. So even if the accuracy >> huh for woman. We still use >> for which one do you use for woman when you say >> uh yeah >> yes you do. Yeah. Yeah. Well well one second for we use the mother's name anyway. So then you would say bats I mean for every uh uh we use the mother's name. So in the case of a g or a goret you would use batsor that >> you said >> bats >> yeah batsor that's correct because that would be the that would be the spiritual mother. So the Rambam's point again is a very beautiful point that what makes you a child of Abraham, what makes you a child of Sara and and the Rambam includes the other etc is not biology. Uh it is the belief system uh that you have and you are a true child of Ara if you walk in his ways uh believe in Hashem and keep the mitzvot uh and and the like. And therefore the Rambam said that the rabbi that instructed you that you cannot refer to Arab as your avot is making a very very serious mistake. And indeed he might be transgressing the various laws in the Torah against humiliating or insulting or demeaning a g because remember the ravant that he must say is not only when he's dvening privately but even if he's a he has to change the text which would actually be a public embarrassment. Now um the truth of the matter is there is of course no shame whatsoever in being a dare. In fact in many ways it's a badge of honor. Uh let me just remind people that David comes is the great grandson of Russ the Moabitete Gior and of course Mosiach will come from David. So Rus is actually the uh ancestor of the Moshiach. uh and in fact matan Torah itself is often described as a mass gueor a mass conversion ceremony of of kal Israel uh so there's no shame it's really a badge of honor I think I had mentioned last week forgive me for repeating a gammorra that says that converts are as bad for Israel as leprosy uh but uh Tossus gives an explanation in the name of Rabbi Abraham the g so he's Abraham ben Abra that they are so meticulous and so conscientious in their mitzvot that they make the rest of the Jewish people look bad and that's why Kazal kind of remarked a little bit affectionatally although a little sarcastically ah you know they're so it reminds me a little bit there was a famous speech it's really a very classic speech um you know Lincoln Square synagogue in Manhattan many of you might know Rabbi Bhwal still still going strong who's been running an outreach program for many many years So this is a long time ago, maybe in the 1970s. There was an honore, a person who was being honored at at this banquet uh by the Jewish uh outreach program uh because of his kira and he entitled his speech why I hate ballet chouva. Really was very very witty because he says, "I come home after a whole week of working. I come home Friday night. I want to have a meal, you know, uh in half an hour. I want to go to sleep." whatever it is. And right when I'm ready to bench, the bala says, "Oh, we didn't sing all the ziros of Friday night." Uh, he says, "Can you tell me something on the para?" He says, "I hate them. I just want to go on and they keep on pushing me to sing and to say to Torah." Of course, he was expressing his admiration and his affection for them uh in that humorous way. So what toos is saying in the name of rabbi of hager was exactly the same thing uh as a for the gayim that so many of them have a burning yearning desire. They chose Judaism. You know Jews who are born Jewish may or may not love Judaism. And sometimes God forbids you know not that it's good. Even a person who keeps the mitzvot kind of says well I'm stuck cuz I was born that way. So they're obedient. That's still good form, but it's kind of an obedience, but not really a a desire so much. Uh a gay shows this religion. And that's exactly what Ara is. Actually, there's a the Rambam mentions this as well. What makes a Gen Abraham is number one, he goes in Ara's ways, but number two, he chose. He chose he Ara was not born into this faith. Ara on his own chose. And that's the famous sport. People ask the question why did God choose Abraham? And the answer is because Ara chose God. Ara made the choice first and then God responded to Ara's choice. And that's exactly another reason why the G is called a Ben Abraham. Yeah. >> Mishna to say that you can't say himself or itself was called or >> uh yeah that that's a good question. The the question is I have to see the I I don't know the exact history because the the statement that a gear is called Ben Abraham is actually not in the Gomorrah itself. In other words, it seems to have originated at a later time and it could be as a result of the Raham's letter. Meaning I I am not I am not entirely clear that Ben Ara was the common practice before this uh letter to Alvaja. Yeah, >> I have a question. He said that has to be accurate. >> Yeah. >> For sure. >> It was a practice not to reveal to children that they were adopted. >> Yeah. >> So if then they get married with the parent with the adopted father's name. >> Yes. Uh that's a very good point. It is 100% true that if you go back to the uh 1950s, 1940s earlier, there are sometimes not not always but there sometimes was this idea of a child not even knowing uh that they were uh adopted uh and sometimes that was very unfortunate because they found out many many years later and it was a a devastating revelation. uh Ravosha Feinstein writes in Huva that it's very very important for uh children to be told that they're adopted and the reason number one is because if they were converted and they have the right to renounce their conversion they need to know that they were converted meaning they can't just believe they were born Jewish because that would take away their hikic right of renunciation but you're also correct that there would be problems real problems with the Kuba. Now, Lama say it is a little complicated because there are some opinions that say as long as you have the right first name, uh you can make a mistake on the parental name. Meaning the issue of using the uh the adopted father rather than the birth father is not a toot in the katan's name. It's autan or they call name. Some say there's a little more liberality in in in in that. But you are correct. I mean according to the uh one must disclose it in the right time and in the right in the right place. Now there are other issues of adoption. This is not a adoption but but obviously one very very major issue are the laws of uh the laws of hugging kissing what we call nia. Now obviously uh one is allowed to hug and kiss a little baby even if it's not your child. Uh but once the child gets older, so we know that a mother can kiss and hug her son and a father can kiss and hug a daughter. How does that apply to adoptive adopted children? Are they considered to be the same as biological children forbuk? Are they not? So I have to be honest with you. Uh the majority of postkim the majority of postkim do take the position that the hector of mother to son and father to daughter is based on biology and as a result uh in the case of adoptive children adopted children the the sorum will come in uh at whatever at whatever age they would kick in you know typically when they're older uh but the title was a great postalion uh does have a lenian few and he bas basically says as long as the boy was adopted before the age of nine which is almost always going to be the case and the girl was adopted before the age of seven uh they have the status of young children and as a result there is no there is no improper sexual desire so venishuk will be you know hugging and kissing will be permitted I will tell you in my own raanos I I've always followed the sidelar uh simply because uh I think it's a very very important that uh adopted adopted children are able to have a physical uh affection with their with their parents especially if there's also biological children to make a discrimination we hug this boy and we don't hug uh his sibling could create great great pain and great embarrassment. Now although it's true that if there was no opinion that allowed it we would have no choice but I think in cases like this revolenberg was a big enough postk that we can uh we can follow that but but that doesn't eliminate all questions. It's true that it's very rare that there's an adoption of a child over nine but in the case of stepchildren that can happen at any age. Uh so let's say a man marries a a woman that has children and her children he has a daughter that's 15 years old. Uh well again ask your local Orthodox rabbi. I'm not going to pass on it. Uh but there will be uh some significant issues of both ye and of um either step stepchildren even even if they're legally adopted. a legal adoption has no particular uh significance here. >> There's also questions with adoption of a conversion that not all converted people can marry like a new people where the daughter was adopted and she met a kay and she couldn't marry the kaya. What they watch they do what they do in the end it turned out his kay wasn't Jewish. >> Oh that that that solves it. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It is of course true that um a guorit, a girl that is converted to Judaism, whether as an adult or as a minor, uh cannot marry a co. Uh that's true. I'll give you another that's actually lesser known than this. And that is even a girl that is born Jewish. If her father is not Jewish, she's born Jewish. She wasn't converted. Uh but her father is not Jewish, she cannot marry a coain either. But this is a very strange because if she married a Coen, not knowing the allowed to stay married. It's very it's a very funny. Uh if a guorit married a Coen, even inadvertently, they have to separate. It's a prohibited union. But if the girl is Jew born Jewish, but her father was not Jewish, it's only a prohibition to marry a Coen. But if they went ahead and did it inadvertently, they are allowed to stay married. Again, it's a very strange the only prohibited union that has that kind of bid permissibility uh that is that is attached to it. Okay. So again this is a a very beautiful letter in which the Rambam uh you know demonstrates the sensitivity that we have to have and the admiration that that we have to have. In fact, uh at towards the end of the letter, the Rambam, one of the things mentioned to the Rambam was that he had asked his rabbi, whoever his rabbi is, we don't know, a bunch of questions. And the rabbi kind of communicated to him that, you know, uh you're a foolish person asking all of these questions. You just don't understand things. And turned to the Rambam and said, you know, am I, you know, am I foolish? Am I stupid? And the Rambam went on and on and on and on about how this rabbi transgressed so many prohibitions. The Rambam said two points. Number one, he said, "Your questions are good questions anyway." So the rabbi is foolish for not respecting the wisdom of your questions. That's a general point. Point number two is even if your questions would be stupid, how could he demean you? And the Rambam says a teacher should never demean any Talmet ever. But if one is a gear, how much more so, how much more so does one have to be concerned for their dignity, for their honor. Uh because they feel vulnerable. They feel like a bit of an outsider. Uh the truth is even today even today where you figure you know there's less discrimination but many many gay will often report a sense of alienation a sense of not being really accepted a sense of not being fully part of a community. It's a feeling that exists even today even though one might think perhaps it would be less so today where we don't have a land culture based on tribal inheritance and the like. So it is something that one needs to be sensitive to. Of course, as I indicated, although a kuva must be accurate, but when the kubua is read, uh you can the rabbi who was if he's experienced can gloss over a lot of things. But then you got to be careful. Um uh I I I remember hearing of a case of a woman that was a guorit and she was very private about it. She didn't want anybody to know- which again there's no particular reason but that is her right her privacy obviously should be respected. So the kuva was written in the correct way but it was read uh as if there was no unusual feature but it was a very artistic cassuva so it was hung up on a wall in their dining room like a a painting in a frame. So, they had some yeshiva boys over uh for a guest and one of the yeshiva boys goes over uh I mean the guy's kind of an idiot but okay he goes over uh he reads the cassa most people even if they saw a cassa wouldn't necessarily know what it says but he was reading the cassa and he blurts out he says gee I didn't know you were a kios etc. So you got to be careful. I mean if there's information in the kubua that you don't want uh to be public then don't put the kubu in a public place. I mean you have to uh you have to be careful in that way. Now um let me mention okay this is just a total digression but let me mention um a related issue the issue of a a woman that's not a virgin. Now here things may be a little different uh because the primary difference between a virgin cassuba and a non- virgin cassuba is the amount of money. For a virgin cuba it's 200 zoos whatever that translates to. For a non virgin kuba it's a hundredsus. So some post have actually said the following. They have said as long as the katan knows that he's not being deceived, if he's willing to obligate himself to pay 200, that's his right. He could obligate himself to pay any amount of money he wants. So as a result, there's no problem in just in not just reading it. reading. You can always read it whatever way you want to read it. But even in writing a kuba of a basula of 200 simply because the only relevance is monetary obligation. And if the relevance is monetary obligation, the katan can do whatever he wants. So that that is a mlo. Some postum actually allowed the kuba to be written and others say well you still shouldn't falsify the document. uh so you should write it accurately and then read it right so that that's a makus and uh it comes up quite a lot this is an issue that comes up more than the guorit issue because uh again I'm involved u in the bala world so to speak so in the in the bichoua world uh this is a commonplace type of issue that needs to always be addressed yeah >> well is a financial compensation whatever it's a contract in the contract you have financial obligation >> issue like the name because the name's >> the issue of Islamication is >> no that that's that that's exactly correct. That's why I'm saying that the accuracy of the name is a bigger issue than the monetary compensation. That's why there may be more leeway leeway there. Okay. Yeah. >> So in you would not put let's say whatever it is. You would say you wouldn't say she's because she's not. >> What would you read it when you read it out loud? Is the tula? >> You're you're allowed to Yeah. Yeah. You're allowed to add that word. >> You're allowed to even add words. Uh, you know, as I say, most people in an audience aren't even listening to the words of the cassa wouldn't understand it anyway. Uh, but I'll tell you, uh, yeshiva guys like to pay attention testing their arudition. So, uh, so it's good to be able to read to improvise the reading and and the like. that uh this has become I guess everybody has some specialty in life. This has become my little specialty. I get invited to weddings. I don't know the or the kala because they tell me, "Oh, we hear you know how to read the you know." So that's it. Yeah. >> So why do we read? >> Oh okay. So the truth is why do we read auba, right? Uh there's no particular reason. Uh the reason why we read the kuba is to simply create a break between two parts of the marriage ceremony that used to be a year apart. The ring ceremony is called ausenin not the modern Hebrew of engagement. It actually is the first stage of marriage and then a year later a year later they would come back and do chevraot and consummation which is called misuin. But since uh the 11th century the two ceremonies have been united but to make a break between them we read the kuba. Now theoretically uh although it's almost a universal custom but theoretically it could be a drashad it could be any type of of break. It's just a way of creating a creating a a a break. Okay. And therefore it's a new person that person has to have parents and so why not have Ramu? >> Yeah. >> Has to have a parent. >> Okay. >> So is it is it possible that we we we we've got the ability to say they've got to have a parent so why not have >> um All right. But okay. But again uh >> yeah I understand. I understand. But but the Rambam wants to not just give uh a random thing. We hear pick up Ram. He wants to give a reason that the gear is a child of Avam because uh he follows in his ways. I mean otherwise you could pick any other name too you know. >> Yeah. Okay. Well, the Rambam was that's what they say you know this is the old joke about this you know Rafim Salvich the great Rafim brrisker well the deep the deepest of of the gdole and his main work was on the Rambam and he has very very deep analyses of the Rambam uh so it says that he meets the Rambam in Shamayam and he tells the Rambam his explanations of the Rambam and the Rambam says this is so brilliant I've never heard this before. So that's kind of what what what it's like sometimes the Rambam did did have a different error. >> And one of the >> Yeah, I'll repeat. Yeah. >> And one of the ways of the public recognizes you as a couple. >> Yeah. >> So in this way of reading it out loud, you're embedding within the community that this is a couple. So does that impact on the tumor because if you read the tumor before everybody and everybody was sitting there since there's a mistake in the tuba does it really make a difference. >> Yeah. So the argument that was made is that perhaps one could look at the reading of the cuba as kind of a public proclamation that this is a married couple that is entering the Jewish community. So your argument was that when you read it inaccurately and you're misstating uh the actual status of the parties maybe that's wrong because you're not proclaiming who they are. Um I I hear your point but Lisa said we are make given the fact that most people don't pay attention to it so you might as well avoid any possibilities of embarrassment. But you're correct perhaps there was more of a symbolic significance to it at an earlier point. Yeah. practical level. If a couple had been living together and got married, we'd know she's not a virgin. Does the rabbi today ask the bride who he doesn't know too well, are you a virgin? In order to know what to write in the >> uh yes, a practical matter. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. or the rabbi will ask for the >> well I mean you know these are difficult dishes but again uh you know they're they're n you know we can navigate them and usually it does not cause that much pain or distress uh yeah >> what happens if the child was adopted by let's say the stepfather legally adopted >> legally natural father biological father Jewish is still alive what do you put on the cassa both name >> uh so you would actually put the the Jewish birth the Jewish birth father and then you could add uh the adoptive father with the word hamaglo who raised him but technically it's the birth father even if the birth father gave him up at birth uh but if he's a Jewish father if he's a Jewish father unlike a g that erases the bond the Jewish father of a Jewish ch from a Jewish mother uh is the is the father okay so uh I'm sorry one more technically there really wasn't such a thing as adoption. For example, you well there is no such thing there is no such thing as um adoption but the concept of raising an orphan and giving an orphan a home was very very ancient. So there was no legal procedure. Adoption was actually uh invented by Romans. uh the the the the uh Roman law created this notion of adoption. In fact, it was very common for emperors who uh they wanted to designate their successor. So they would take a nephew or they would take a cousin or they would take some kid and they would adopt him as their own and therefore he would become the son of the emperor who could become the emperor. But you're right hakally there's no such thing as adoption. But there is some something called so this was very very uh common um the uh and right that's that's why it's very important that um if a coane adopts a child Jewish or non-Jewish that does not make the child a cohen he is not a co okay because uh adoption does not literally make it your child yeah >> uh today I've heard that women just go to a sperm bank and have children when these girls get married, won't you pretend? >> Uh yeah. Yeah. The question is if a if a woman a single woman uh has a child from uh a sperm uh sperm bank uh and then she gets married uh who is going to be the father of that of that child. Uh once again according to you either don't put any father's name at all in the child uh or you put the uh whoever she's married to Hamagadla who raised him or some say you put the mother's name >> and some say you put the mother's father's name the maternal grandfather based on Benimanim uh meaning grandchildren are considered to be like children so you can actually put the mother's Jewish fathers name. So there are many many choices. Yeah. >> Motion was raised in Par's house, right? >> Yeah. >> Is that right? >> Yes. >> So I'm saying any formal uh they didn't say no. What situation that? >> Well well um there was no formal adoption then. uh would have just been that's where he was raged. But his father is Enra. Mosha is always called Mosha Benram. He's not called Mosha Benarro. That would be a little a little strange. Although uh uh people say Bacha actually her name is Batparro is credited as a mother figure in Mosha's life. Kazal do speak about Moshe as having two mothers. There's Yv and there's Bat Pyro. So in a sense we do recognize the adoptive mother's role in in in raising him. She gave him his name. Interesting question. Uh what language did she speak? What I mean Moshe, right? She called him Mosheim Mishu. He was pulled out of the water. Now that's a Hebrew. That's a Hebrew etmology. Uh did she call him Moshe or did she call him in? I mean, did she know Hebrew or did she call him an Egyptian name that the Torah translates into Hebrew? >> That was her name. Okay. Okay. It's it's it's hard to know. meaning is uh Moshe may have had some Egyptian name may have had some Egyptian name that meant that that the Torah translates into the Hebrew uh the Hebrew equivalent. Okay. All righty. So this is the uh there are actually in the letter of Hager there's actually three questions that he raised to the Rambam. Question number one is how should uh question number two is a much broader philosophical question. I think I'm going to leave it for next week but let me go to question number three which is shorter and I can address in the limited time. Question number two deals I'll just say what the question uh deals with the notion of free will versus determinism. uh meaning what when do we say whatever happens to you comes directly from God and when do we say that things happen to you as consequences of the choices that you made right let's say a person I mean I give you a very extreme example uh there are people who take a very fatalistic view of life and they say they're going to cross against the light they're going to walk into dangerous neighborhoods because their argument is I'm not going to die unless Unless God wants me to die and therefore if God wants me to live I can cross against the light and nothing is going to happen to me and that God wants me to die even if I'm in the safety of my home I'm going to die. So people take the position a fatalist takes the position that whatever I do does not affect my fate because everything depends on the will of God. said, "Well, Vaja was a little perplexed about the role of free will versus divine determinism in what happens in your life." Now, this is a massively complex question. uh I will address it uh at le greater length next week but suffice it to say that the Rambam's answer uh consistent with his rationalistic approach is human actions have consequences even in a divinely ordained universe and therefore the choices you make in life make a difference. uh don't think that you could cross against the light or or or whatever it would be and you're not going to be affected. Your actions will affect you one way or the other. Again, I I don't want to get into that now. It's a much longer discussion. God willing, I'll I'll go get discuss it at greater length next next week. But but the third question is a generic question that we've touched upon before and that is although Alvaja became Jewish and he repudiated Islam he wanted to know if Islam has the status of aod again his rabbi told him that uh Islam is idolatry it is prohibited not only to Jews but even to non-Jews under the seven noahide laws and As we already know from other letters the Rambam wrote, it was the Rambam's position that although he considered Muhammad crazy and he refers to him as a mishuga who did more evil to the Jewish people than anyone who ever came before. So he was no fan of Muhammad or Islam. But the Rambam said the one thing we can say in their favor is that it is not an idolatrous religion. And he does say that there are rituals in Islam. A very interesting historical thing which are leftovers from the pre-Islamic paganism of the Arab world. Meaning before Muhammad uh the Arab nations were pagan on which they were over there and when Muhammad converted them to their uh to a monotheistic faith they did retain some ceremonies that had their origin in idolatrous worship. But the Rambam says interesting point the fact that a ceremony had its origin in paganism does not taint the religion as idolatrous if it is now being used in the worship of God. And he gave two interesting examples. He says one of the and I have no idea if this is even historically accurate but this is what the Rambam says. You know, one of the uh vodoras that the Torah itself mentions is Bal Por. Now, Bal Por uh was an idol, a de uh that was worshiped in a very demeaning way. It was worshiped by defecation. One would defecate in front of Balpur. That was a way of worship. Another swarm of aora was called marulis and that was worshiped by throwing stones at it. It's a little odd way of I mean both are very odd ways of worshiping. Now the Rambam notes that Islam has two rituals that actually parallel balor and marulis. one is he said forget forgive the reference but he mentions that that when they bow down they position their rear end uh in a position that might be similar to balor and he said that that is a remnant of balor worship he also mentions and apparently this I'm not aware of it now but I I'm not an expert in Islam that uh Muslims were throwing stones at things do they do Oh, oh, okay. They they they throw stones and he said originally that was a remnant of Marulus, but now it is done to serve God or to repudiate the Sahara or whatever it will be. So the Rambam says it's very very clear that Islam is a monotheistic religion. Now we do know from the Mishna Torah that the Rambam did consider Christianity at least the Christianity of the Trinity to be idolatrous worship and prohibited even to Ben Noah. Now this has some very interesting halafik implications although we're not in a position to enforce it and that is according to in a hikic state uh any non-Jew that is guilty of idolatry is not allowed to live in the land of Israel in order to qualify as a right of residence in Eric Israel one must repudiate a voazar you don't have to become Jewish but you must reput 28. So according to the Rambam u Muslims would be permitted to live in Erit Israel and Christians would not. I wish the would be the opposite but okay but this this is according to the this is according to the Rambam's reading. Now I will point out again this is a topic that deserves a lot more length and that is Rabenu Tam Rashi's grandson in France takes the interesting position that Christianity even trinitarian Christianity is may be a mistaken belief it may be a false belief system but it is technically not idolatry because it does acknowledge one supreme god so according to Rambam who of course lived in Islamic countries. Christianity is a bodhisora. According to Raenutam who lived in Catholic France, Christianity is not a bodhis. This is very relevant. People ask for example um Charlie Kirk, right? Very devout Christian, friend of Israel, supporter of Israel. um Schmer Shabas, he talked a lot about keeping Shabas. Does a guy like Charlie Kirk go to Haba? Because there is a rule that the righteous of the um Olam go to Haba, right? Paradise, they go to Olaba. So here's the problem. Like the Rambam, again, I'm not pasing. like the Rambam it's not so clear that Olaba is going to be available because as good a man as Charlie Kirk was he was technically an odor he was an idoltor and that may stop him from getting in matcha according to Rabenuam that Christianity even if we don't believe in it is not idolatry it's ultimately a monotheistic faith then indeed someone like Charlie Kirk would be eligible for again I don't I don't I don't I don't mean to be callous about this I know this is a big a very big question especially for Charlie Kirk uh but all I'm saying is from a hikic analysis the status of Christianity and of course Christianity itself has many many denominations and sometimes you may have to go deeper into it but the status of Christianity uh is a major major point of controversy uh it would be relevant in terms of residence init if we were to follow it would be relevant in terms of hab for the category of umo tom. Now they do say that unitarianism which is a small denomination uh which does not believe in the trinity is clearly not going to be a voter even like the ram. So, if you're a Unitarian, not not you, a Jew shouldn't be a Unitarian either, but if you're a non-Jewish Unitarian, uh then you're going to be okay, but uh according to the Rambam, any religion that posits a multiplicity of the deity such as the Trinity, the Rambam did consider to be idolatrous. Yeah. >> Yes. >> Back in the time going to a church. >> No, no, no. So, you All right. So, here's the difference. You as a Jew are not allowed to either participate in Christian worship or because of Marisian walk into a church where people might think you're participating in the Jewish worship. So you as a Jew got to keep away but the Christian himself or herself is not doing anything wrong. Uh that's the difference then go through. >> Yes. Yes. Most opinions actually say that according to the Rambam you are permitted uh to go into a uh go into a mosque. But I guess your question is actually a good question. Meaning the following if according to the Rambam I can go into a mosque. So you're asking then according to Rabenuam I should be able to go into a church because you're correct because essentially in both cases it's okay for them and not okay for us. So why would I have the that is a very good question. Let let me think about that. Okay. So that's where the the Rambam once again reaffirms the idea that in spite of his great disdain for the behavior of Muslims and the persecution of Jews. Remember he both tan and keshm were devoted to the themes of Islamic persecution. The Rambam says they are not idolatrous. Now this idea though that this this point that a ceremony that was idolatrous can be cautered so to speak if it's dedicated to God. Uh this actually has implications well beyond that specific example. uh it may be an approach that we could take to yoga uh where we could take to various eastern medicine like acupuncture and various modes of alternative medicine where some people say you can't use those things because they did have their origin in eastern religions many of which were idolatrous Buddhism Hinduism and and the like but it would seem based on the Rambam's reasoning here that you can disass dissociate the ceremony from its origin and then it's no longer tainted. So I think uh that would be in fact that is the basis of why we permit yoga, meditation, various other things that did indeed start off as ways of worship. >> Yeah. >> Did Carla not start out as a pagan? >> Yeah. So um the the Rambam actually says yes. The Rambam himself in fact it's a good point. The Rambam is kind of consistent here. He says corbonote were originally uh used to serve idols and the like and it would have been so difficult to wean us away from it but God incorporated it in the Torah to give us a way to remain with that. Now the MS is that's the Rambam's opinion thatos are consumption to idolatry. Ramban however doesn't really like that. He points out that Cayenne and He brought corbanos and avoc brought corbanos. He did not see it as idolatrous. He saw this as a way of worshiping God. So that's a mus. So um again we're not we weren't supposed to have I don't remember this for say but one of the two reports that was what the going took over and there were yeah >> so wondering whether because yoga and meditation are not used uh to serve Hashem but it's anything that was once used to serve the Zora and now you want to use it to serve Hashem I don't know and if and you're Jewish Yeah. >> Would that be allowed? >> Well, you're correct. A mata is an altar of a single stone and the misb is an altar of many stones. So, originally uh we the obos did mata but then when it was taken over by the ovodora we don't do matsa. We only have msbak of many stones implying that that which was used for a zora we should not use to serve hashem. Uh that's a good point. On the other hand, that's inconsistent with the corbanos rationale which the Rambam advocates. But but you are correct. Yoga is a different sugia because we're not using it to serve Hashem. We're using it for exercise and and relaxation. Okay. So that's the third part of the letter. The second part of the letter which I alluded to briefly is the issue of free will versus determinate determinism. How much of your life is directly determined by God? How much of it is a product of your choice? Very perplexing question. Oaja raised it with the Rambam. Uh next week, God willing, we'll discuss the Rambam's answer to that question. Have a good week.