Chasidim Rishonim & The World of Halacha (Pt II) | Rabbi Shai Finkelstein | December 30th 2025

We are on page two. Um so that's the third source from the end. So just a quick review what we started last week was to start um some kind of an analysis of this the first righteous people. Um and we saw the Mishna the structure of the Mishna. We spoke a little bit about who are these rasidim. Is that an expectation for everyone or just for them? So now we will continue to dig deeper in who are this and then we will obviously expand on it. Okay. So the and would just say that obviously is sponsored for the 2020 2025 2026 academic year in memory of by their families. It's obviously for me and Sylvia David. Okay. So everyone has it. No. Yeah. Okay. So says that this righteous people they had a tremendous desire to bring but the problem was what >> they didn't do any sins. Right? So you can't bring if you don't commit a sin. So what do you do? You sin, right? But then you are not aid. So that's a problem. So what do you do? So Unbelievable. So they took upon themselves uh to be a nazir and then you know when the nazir ends is a period of nazir he needs to bring what kbanat. So here we go here I have kban kat by the way I would just you can look at that and say to yourself really when I see this I have few things in mind. One thing in mind is wow korakavod you know they have such a tremendous spiritual desire and they do everything that they can in order to fulfill it. Second is >> they're a little bit too much, right? They're a little bit too much. Like this is not this is a bit obsessive. Like if you didn't commit so don't bringat and you don't need to create for yourself an opportunity, okay, to to bring okay. They didn't do that. Soon says no no no no no they couldn't bring they could bring many other but they couldn't bring why because they didn't commit which by the way it's also almost impossible to believe because we know that everyone at least one will But let's say they they can't they don't do so says they couldn't do why because why the nazir needs to bring a kat separated himself. >> Okay. So according to some he was when he took upon himself the not to enjoy not to enjoy life and not to enjoy right. though because they don't want to be called sinners. So they can't bringat for the nazir. You with me? Meaning if a nazir ends up his period of ner and he brings why? Because he did something wrong. Now you can't bring without doing something wrong. So you if you want to bringat you need to know that what that you are going to be named what? Sinners. But they didn't want it. So therefore, says no, no, they didn't do it. I don't know if this was written in with some cynicism or to try to send the message, but the message is is that you know what there are there is enough that you bring ka for just don't find another opportunity. Okay? Don't look for things that are not in the structure. And now, by the way, you know what? Um, I will deviate. I'm going to deviate now for a few minutes, which because I think it's important and because I think it's a pretty much noa to to everyone. Okay. You remember this mitzvah? What does it mean? >> You should separate yourself. Right. >> Right. You should be holy. You should be separate. You should be separate yourself. Right. You should separate yourself. Separate yourself from what >> from the goim from Okay. Okay. Wonderful. None of it is what Russian rambun says. And this is where the comes along. Rashi says which means you need to give them but there is an extra guarding when it comes to what toot to inappropriate sexual behavior. Okay, good. So basically if you keep all the mitzvot and you are a little expert with that you will become kadosh. Wonderful right you will become holy. Ramban says and this is where the Ramban coins really this very famous statement which means he says you need to separate yourself from everything meaning everything that even if it's allowed you should what you should distance yourself a bit from it for example he says there is nowhere in the Torah that says that you cannot eat meat you can eat meat as much as you want But if you will eat meat morning, lunch and dinner and in between and your entire day will be focused on what? On your next steak, you didn't really violate anything in the Torah. But you will never be able to be what? Same thing with drinking. Same thing with the beh every type of behavior. Even things that are you are allowed to do, try to what? to minimize it or avoid some of it. Regger it means what? That in order to be kadosh, what do you need to do? >> Separate yourself even from things that are what >> that you are allowed to do. Rea if you are allowed to do why should you >> separate yourself? Which means the question is can I'll put it like that. When you do what was prescri prescribed for you, can you be a healthy kadosh Jew or you need to do you need to do more than that? >> No, let let me let me just I will give you an example. >> Let me you go and you have a heart issue. You go to the cardiologist. He prescribed for you pills and he says to you, you need to walk at least 30 minutes a day. Okay, sounds familiar? Yeah. If you take the pills, you need to take one a day. Okay, and you say to yourself, you know what, I'll take one and a half and I'll walk for 45 minutes every day. I'll do some extra. Would that work or not? Okay. Now, let's not to exceed with the pills. Let's just say I'm going to walk 45 minutes instead of 30 minutes. Would that be better? >> We don't. >> Okay. Is an hour and a half is better than half an hour? Is 12 hours better than an hour? You see what I'm saying? Which means when something is prescribed for you, you know what? Let's take something else that we all do here as drivers where it says 40 we drive only what 30 right? >> So the thing is the question is can you reach the spiritual goal with just following what was prescribed for you in the Torah or that in order to be kadosh or something special you need to what to do extras. Now you all understand where I'm taking it. When you start taking extras, there is no limit, right? There is no limit. I'll give you few examples. I'm not giving an opinion even though I do have an opinion. Um but I'm just giving you an example. Okay. We all don't like bugs and insects in our vegetables, right? Fine. >> Okay. Therefore, we do what the halaka says to us. We all know how to check cauliflower and broccoli and lettuce and uh strawberries, right? However, today we have a microsoft micros. We have only Microsoft and also microscope. Okay. A microscope, right? And we have magnifying glasses. Should we use them in order to find bugs? >> No. >> Why not? Maybe there are. Maybe there are bugs there. >> So, you can hear interesting discussion here. Microscope. Do you think the Rambam used the microscope? Now, I don't know if he ate cauliflower or not. Maybe he did or maybe he did not. But I agree he never probably never used it. But on the other hand, now when you have it, maybe what maybe we should use it now. Yeah. Michael >> um using similar things to check is probably on the same side. >> Okay. And all sorts of things. Meaning the question is when it's becoming quote unquote too much and when it we all understand that you know if you do a little bit more extra other will become better. Okay. If someone took upon himself to do the and then he decides to do a in the afternoon what it's a bad thing to to review it again. It's not a bad thing. It's a good thing, right? Or if he prepares the daff before, the day before and then when they learn, so he has some some kind of he or she has some background. It's not a bad thing. It's a good thing. We all know that sometimes to do an extra thing, it's a good thing. Sometimes it's even required or expected. But at the same time, when it comes to spirituality and when it's come to hala, then it can become an issue. Um that goes back to this this you have a desire to bringat. So what do you do? You take upon yourself an which you really have no what have no intent to become really an you just do it in order to what to bringat while you are doing it you put yourself in a bit of aic situation not only that you don't enjoy life and whatever but also what do you think a nazir um should do Shabbat with >> kush [laughter] he Uh what do you call it? Can't eat dough. What do you silak? He's celiac. Gluten-free. You'll find answers for everything, right? So you you get me. Okay. You put yourself in a situation that what? Okay. What he will do? Okay. So the thing is the idea is is that this in a way represents a a a a type or a model of people who has a tremendous desire for spirituality but at the same time can do things that are what that are different or that can lead to things that are questionable. By the way, I don't know how much you know about um Musar um the it's not the Mus but it's a mus movement. There was a branch in the Musa movement that they will try to make fun of themselves. So they will teach themselves humility. So they will go to the pharmacy and they will ask for nails. Okay? And he will look at them, what are you crazy? And he will beat them up and then they will run away from the store in order to what? To create humility or they will sleep on what? On nails. Okay. In order to create a very uncomfortable situation for them in order to teach humility to themselves. What do you think about it? Many of those people loved it. Leave alone the the Christian influence on something like that. But some of them says that this is the way. This is the way to do it. we what we'll call normative people look at that and say try to find a better way you know to teach yourself humility. So what I'm saying is is thisim and this is uh I think Susie I'm trying to hint to what we spoke a little bit before they open up a tremendous discussion about not only their intentions but you can also expect that what that the institutions the established spiritual institutions will probably will be against this model or type of a Jew. Not only because it's always out of the box. It's like saying, "Oh, hey, you know what? Whatever the Torah gave me, it's not enough. I can do more. I need to do more." Like the Torah did not prescribe for me a prescription that it's enough for me. I need to do more. Which means what? By the way, that you will never be as complete as me. Why? Because you just follow the letter of the law, which is dangerous. Yes. I'm just confused about your example of the meat in terms of being blatant. How do we as normal Jews say well how far do we go in keeping any law so common sense but each person has different common sense are there what guidelines do we follow >> good question I do believe that extremes on both ends are like what are what is the what's the structure that we follow for example yes it's true in the Torah does not say that you're not allowed to eat meat so basically you can eat meat all day long says Ramban this is not good for you now I think every person understand that it's not good for you to you know so obsessed with meat from the morning until the night. So what are the limit? Yeah, there is some subjectivity in it for sure subjectivity with it. However, I would say when the Torah presents to us the the permission to eat meat, you remember the your soul. Who else says the connection between soul and meat? or food. It's bring me the hunt, bring me the food so my soul will bless you. All the rabbis in all the when do they start giving and everything from their >> from their from the food it's all connected to somehow to food. Okay. So if we go yes >> what was the source of the >> oh that's I gave you that was a long series of classes of beyond beyond the letter of the law yes >> oh very good here we go very I was waiting for that question we know that our rabbis put offense to the mitzvah there it's a little bit something else it talks more about the rabinicic enactments and rabinicic decrees Okay. In order to what to keep the core Torah here we are talking about what saying it's more than that. Even what is mutali I will still what I will still not use. Okay let let me give you another example. Hm. A story. Uh I read it about and came to him and he says to him um look Rabbi I I don't rely on Shabbat for electricity on Shabbat and and therefore I would like to buy a generator. So in Shabbat I will not use the because maybe there is someone who is not uh religious there and he's going to uh turn it off and turn it on and I want to buy a generator looked at him and says you know there is an upcoming hug did you buy your wife a dress or a jewelry or whatever it was he looks at him says Maresha like what's the connection he says Look to make your wife happy and the codified it as generator is not in the Rambam. Do the right thing. Now and by the way I believe that story many of the stories that are being told about many people I don't really believe. This one I believe because that's exactly who he was. You have something that is prescribed for you in the okay? Don't do other things that yes maybe according to one opinion you can't rely on that but most of opinion says what you can now I do hear the other side if I want to be mir with with myself I want to be more stringent what who are you to tell me what that I can't right I want it this is where the balance is between to be stringent to be obsessive and to be out there. Okay, we have levels and I think everyone likes to put himself in the right level but whatever the right level is but we need to know that theim here generated some kind of of resentment from let's call it from the established institutions that didn't like exactly what they are seeing. Okay. Okay. Um here we have something a little different in terms of the definition. So if you have a a garment that have only three corners and you so it's not and you added another corner so you will be four corners of the bag. So then what it's disqualified why which means the needs to come already with what with four corners rather than three and you make the fourth. However, which means when they took a garment which had already three fingers width, they immediately what? Put already for them. This talit was already obligated in what in in it. So the is dealing with that. I'm I'm not interested in the I'm interested in one thing that Rashi says. You see Rashi? What is >> they are eager? They rush into doz. Now this is interesting because until now we define as what as people who do extra if it's in concentration in dvening talking about what hiding the metal things and the glass things in the ground in order not to damage someone that's from last week that's zim it seems to be like it's a it's for everyone it's a good thing right everyone needs to be zar give me at least uh one thing that everyone needs to be zaris What do we do? >> We always need to but you do it early in the morning. I know here in Israel many times you do it later on but people who know a little bit more they do it in the in the morning. Okay. So now we are on page three. Okay. Take a look at the Rambam. You see? Okay. Even though Even though you are allowed to eat and to drink drink. Now does not mean >> tra. It means what? that it is not what we call and we will see that in a minute. So meaning those these people they created by the way a group it was called in the friends not friends like friends but that they will eat even things that are that are not kad they will eat it okay they will themselves will pure purify themselves this is like a extra level of holiness and it's a path of the righteous people or pious people. This group of people that they ate, they basically separated themselves from what? From all of us. They couldn't eat with us. Not only they couldn't eat with us, they couldn't even touch our clothes, couldn't touch our garments. >> Like the Indians, they >> Oh, I don't know about the Indians. But uh now, by the way, I will tell you about them in a minute. Not the Indians, they these guys. He says, "The purification of the body brings you to the holiness of your soul and your thoughts. And when your soul is holy, you basically imitate God. Now according to the Rambam, the Rambam describes basically again this is a group of people that by the way you had to go through a test in order to be accepted in that group and they will eat everything that it's even which is mundane. They will eat it. We know for example when you go to the beta mdash and you want to eat something you need to what are to purify yourself right you need to go to the mikvah if you are impure you need to be they sprinkle on you blood or water or whatever it is okay but if you want to eat something kadosh you need to do it now they acted like that on a daily basis even if what if they didn't eat it in the beta mikdash everyone's with me good now according to the raam this is this is a wonderful It's okay. It's kosher to do something like that. It's okay. You know what's the problem with that? >> Separation. >> Exactly. It's total separation. The Talmud talks about the fact you know what you know that before Abaka became Abaka, what did he say? Do you remember what the Gar says? Give me and I'll beat him like a donkey. Why like a donkey? I don't know. But he hated them. >> I'll buy them. Sorry. Right. Thank you. He hated them. Why would he hate? He became one of them later on. They what? They were very exclusive. Just imagine if I'm a Yeah. If I keep eating those things and you are not when you come to shake my hand for Shabbat Sharon, what do I do? >> I look away. You come to give me a big hug because you didn't see me for 3 months. What do I do? Stay where you are. Why? Corona. No, no corona. It's not co I just I can't I can't hug you. I can't touch you. you are. Can you imagine what the other person feels which basically created a total separation and this is also again something that it's inherent in our in our religion on one hand to try to encourage us to what to yeah to get to the higher level and to basically to be better. But at the same time not to separate yourself and to look at others from like a superior perspective. This is very difficult. You know who was able to reach one of the highest level of spirituality and at the same time to know how to behave with regular people. >> Give me No, no, no. Not modern rabbis. someone from Tanakh. >> Abraham. >> Abraham. Why? Abraham picks on it and he says after the pas says after the binding of Isaac. Ara was about to kill his own son. Then God reveals himself to him and then this and that and the other. What does he do after that? He Abra goes down and hang out with whom? >> With his youth, with the Elazer and Ishmael and with the Camor and with the dunkey. Like after he reached that incredible level of spirituality, he was able to go down and to talk about whatever the matters of the day says this is a by the way a second example. Well, I'm not sure if he brings it or not, but I'll bring it. Is that after the Brit that was supposed to what? To separate him. What does he do immediately after the brit? >> He sits in the entrance of his tent looking for what? For guests. And then he speaks to Hashem, says to Hashem, "Please, I'll put you on hold. I'm sorry. I'm going to take care of them." This is basically what a beet a Jew who can reach incredible spiritual accomplishments but at the same time not to forget there are people here. Um okay stay at that same spiritual level. Yeah, but doesn't does not mean I I'm not sure that that's the drush there is that it's very easy to climb but it's very easy to remain. That's the shot there which means many people >> hard to remain >> the what? >> Hard to remain. >> Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's very h very easy to take upon yourself all sorts of things for a week but try to remain in that spiritual level that's hard. Yes. Today just for example, we take police or you know and we say the nonceptions not now that can be very upsetting to people who are not Jewish who are part of the or part of the or part of whatever it is and >> I agree but there is a difference here you're talking about especially an ancient decree [clears throat] that continues until today because you want to create a separation ex that's exactly mission accomplished. You don't want them to feel that comfortable with you because you don't want them to integrate with you. That's exactly the issue here. We are talking about we are talking about within the Jewish people >> within the Jewish people that I tell you you are not kosher enough for me. Even though you are very religious you do everything that you you do everything by the book. I just do more than the book and this is exactly goes back to what to the points that we discussed before and this is something which is so difficult. How do you progress in your uh commitment and knowledge and at the same time create a friendly environment when you don't need to fully separate yourself from others and I understand I not a rabbi from last year and not from two years ago it's almost uh 26 years um and I know sometimes People ask about the child is super makmir and sometimes about a child who is super mel and sometimes it's the same family. Okay. And how do you try to accommodate everyone? And how sometimes children come to me and say, "Okay, my parents did a for so long and sometimes this A was really non-Halakic even or it was halahik but this guy went to yeshiva and after 3 months he thinks he knows the entire including all set five parts which are only four parts as you know. So the thing is is that we this is a delicate question. It is a very delicate question and um how do you also how do you inspire people to do more and not give them the the feeling that what that what they did until now was not right or was not good enough. So this is very delicate. This is not only this is to be a mench. Okay. So this is the idea of how you grow but you don't separate yourself. Okay. Now take a look at the in Shabbat. Okay. We are on page three. The Gar Shabbat says the following. Meaning all the animals that cause damage. You can kill them on Shabbat and you don't need to worry about and blood and slaughtering and all of it. You can do it. Okay. have questions. There are only five types of animals that you can kill on Shabbat. And this is the list. A fly that is from the land of Egypt. Is not a B. It's a hornet. Thank you. Um in Scorpio invy somewhere. And a snake in Israel, you can kill it and a wandering a dog everywhere. >> Sorry. So, so who is the owner? Who is the the author of this of this statement? If it's it cannot be because according to if you do if you do work on Shabbat even if you don't really need its purpose you are still can't believe that I'm saying that without giving you the entire introduction about but I'm just going to skip it because it's too much for today. um but it needs to be raishimon says if you do something on Shabbat that you don't need its purpose you are now don't start doing that on Shabbat it's I'm just telling you what they say without elaborating on it so says what at the end okay you know what I'll just I'll try to present it to you in an easy way says every all the animals that cause damage you can kill them on Shabbat. Now Ysef says how can you say that there is a list of only five so five versus everyone. So the Gar says oh maybe this one is based on this rabbi or the other rabbi. So the ends the and conclude what look there is really five animals that you can kill even if they didn't do anything to you which is this list. So what does it mean that you can kill all the animals that are trying to damage you? Answer, if they run after you. If they run after you, you can kill them. But five of them, even if they don't run after you, you can kill them. Okay, everyone is with me? Which means if you see a snake, he's not running after you or he's not running after you, okay? You can kill it. I'm not I'm not asking it's not. I'm just saying what the says here. Okay? And but if you see a a bear, okay, init only if he's after you, I would say run. But whatever. But if you can kill him, kill him. Okay. Okay. Now look at the bolded letters. So the Tana recited his in front of now I brought our discussion to a boiling point and that's exactly what I wanted to do. He says that if someone kills what? Scorpions and snakes which you are allowed to kill on Shabbat. That's what we said right now. They are not happy with him. It's not decent what he did in their eyes. They think that he didn't do the right thing. But rea says what? >> That you can do it. So why a who is asking you? And b why are you not happy? I I did the amalo. So says to this person who told him what that theim are not happy with those people who do it. He says, "Ah, now I'm happy. Now we have a discussion." You see, there is that says what? When you see a snake in Israel, even if he's not running after you, you kill him because he's going to kill him. Even if he doesn't do anything now, he might. Theim are not happy with that. Now why the are not happy with it? Because you did something that you not supposed to do on Shabbat killing and they they probably think that what that if you will not kill it nothing will happen to you. Which reminds us what you remember the first Mishnah that when you even if you have a snake like on your heel you're fine. So they are not happy with you doing what you're supposed to do according to what to and even in a case that it can endanger your life. When Rauna heard about it, what did he say? Tell them that are not happy with them. Here there is a boiling point mash of tension between and you sit in the suka and it start drizzling >> little bit. It's not that annoying but it is annoying enough. Do you have that in the family? Let's go in. Can't stand here. It's too much. It's too cold. It's too dry. It's too wet. It's my soup. And then you have the guy. No ma. But come on. But if you were in the street eating in the marketplace, you would run to your car and go home. Let's stay. Do you have it? That's a mash on a very superficial level. What do you do? So most of the times I think families do the following. You want to sit here, be my guest. I'm going home. Right? Right? Something like that. Or if you really really love those people, you say, "You know what? I'll stay with you. I'll bring my umbrella." And then you are really not sitting in the suka. I understand that if you're sitting under an umbrella. Okay? So the idea is is that you see the versusim and the idea of this is the but I'm going to tell you that the hala is >> not enough. not enough or it's too maker. You can be more stringent. Now if it was only besot with little bit of drizzling I would say no. Here we are talking about what? >> Life and death. >> Life and death. Now it sounds very dramatic but a potential for life and death for sure. This is why the says you can kill this animal and the would say no it's fine. Okay, let's do one more. Okay, page four. It says the following again. So Ravida brought a some kind of a testimony that um 10 20 days before will die he will basically will bring upon himself [snorts] suffering of holy like uh probably some kind of kidney disease or you know I don't know if you know but in the Talmud there are many many times in the Talmud that they are talking about holyim um what would you say in English Gastro gastro issues gastro issues and why gastro issues part of it is I guess because of what they ate b access excess access excessibility to bathroom and things like that you know many many times you know we have besetsu you know to that extent we have this uh obligation of father that if you need to go to the bathroom and you hold yourself there is a problem you need to go to the bathroom so holy was also something very scary for them I guess they didn't know exactly what to do they tried many times to basically create for themselves a diarrhea and I'm sorry talking about in a shoe. But that's what they did in order to what to clean the body. That's also what they also did. They they did hakaza which means they will take blood out in religious. Exactly. Right. In order to what to I guess to recirculate the blood to refresh the blood and whatever the medical uh opinion of the day was. But holy was something that they all were very scared of. And here says that 10 20 days before they died they felt I guess that they are about to die. So I guess they didn't take care of themselves with the in order to what? To suffer. What's the purpose of the suffering? The purpose of the suffering was what? So they will purify their body. So they will come to decent brings the when you purify the silver and you purify the gold and who analyze your heart who can really understand your heart. See that if you go through that suffering in order to what to come pure to he will accept you like that. Now, first and foremost, >> sounds very Christian. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, I didn't say that. You said it's all very good. I will just piggyback on what you said. It sounds like a very much of a Christian theology. The suffering in order to bring you to LA and why would you do that? And how exactly did they know that in 10 or 20 days they're going to die? Like, who told them? And I understand, you know, it's very appropriate to this para of lammud. How did he know? So the Ramban talks about the idea of khalishoot kalishicious. Okay, you are not sick but you feel weak. You feel that it's you know those are the last days. So I can imagine maybe they were so they were so in tune with their body. So maybe they knew but why would you do that? And especially if you have holy you also create some kind of a issue which is you need to have. So again we see what that are not exactly only they are doing things that are might be questionablely. With that in mind, next week