Birkot HaTorah: Part Two | Rabbi Yossi Goldin | May 19 2026

that our learning should be audi for all those who are injured uh and impacted by this ongoing uh war and security situation and should give guidance to all of our leaders and all of the world leaders to make the right decisions. Okay. So we are continuing in our in our uh learning um on Torah very appropriate also for leading up to shaveot where we celebrate uh matan tora. So two weeks ago the last time we were talking about birkot tora. So we we did a general introduction learned a number of gumar wrote that helped us understand the source for saying birkot tora. We saw a number of gumaras and sources that talked about the importance of birkotra. There's a unique importance to birkotra. We discussed then as well the the maklo uh the argument whether or not birkatra are mida or are biblical in nature or midan. Um and then the implication that that follows from that regarding what a person should do if he's not sure whether or not he said botra. Today um we're going to continue our conversation. There's a lot to talk about when it comes to bkot. It's really a fascinating and and and very very beautiful braha. I feel like I say that each time we get to it, which is the way it should be. Um but um today I wanted to start with one one important question that that really sets the tone for for all of that we're going to talk about today. And that is what kind of braha is or are berotra. Okay. Meaning as we know and we've discussed before in the past u there tend to be three maybe four categories of brahot that exist uh in in in the world of braot. The first are known as mitzvah. Brahot that we say before we do a mitzvah. They tend to generally be very concise very clear. When you sit in the before we say before we do a mitzvah we say thanking Hashem for the opportunity to do to do the mitzvah. That's one category. Another category uh that's that that you know that's very classic is what we would call that we say before we benefit from something or sometimes after we benefit from something. So that would be before braha we say before we uh before we eat food or braha before we smell something before we benefit in some physical way. There is a bra that we often say before we do so. The third category is what's generally known as that we say praising hashem or thanking hashem for something. So again a classic example of that would be the braha we say when there is a rainbow or the braha we say when there is thunder and lightning. There are there now there's a whole range of these types of braot uh saying if you see the ocean for the first time in in 30 days and there are like I said a whole range of that you would say that fall under this category. One thing we did see when we when we learned the braha of Aaratsar a couple of months ago was that there according to many opinions there is actually a fourth category of that is very similar to beer coach in that it's a braha that is very verbose that's what I should point out as well generally a brah that is can be short or it can be very verbose it's praising hashem it's thanking hashem it's much le it's you know whereas whereas bir and birk mitzvah are very to the tend to be a lot more effusive and verbose although sometimes they are also a little bit short depending on the context of the brah. The fourth possible category that we saw when we discussed the is what is known as are similar in tob in that they tend to think and praise him or and or a combination thereof or one or the other. The main difference between what we call and is that are generally said upon having the experience. Okay. So for example, you would only say the braha of seeing on the ocean if you see the ocean. You would only say the braha on lightning and thunder if you actually hear let th hear thunder or see lightning. However areot that we say every day when the day begins as part of our daily schedule. We say there are certain that we say that are a form of just like we davin every single day. Part of that will include certain and the reason why this came up was when we were discussing the there was an interesting discussion whether a person should say the of every morning even if he didn't go to the bathroom. Okay, we know that classically 99% of the time that we say the it's a of just regular after you go to the bathroom you say the but there actually is a big discussion amongst the postkim that every morning even if a person did not just go to the bathroom as part of his daily braot as part of his fah maybe he should say a he or she should say aatar every day even if they didn't go to the bathroom and in fact that's how the rama the Rama actually says that if a person woke up in the morning and for whatever reason he or she did not go to the bathroom but they should still begin their day saying a yatar. So we see that sometimes asher uh can function as what we call aot which means we're praising hashem but we're not only saying it after we encounter whatever the braha is about in that context after having that I want to now turn to birk bottora and I want to ask the same question what category take a look at source number one I brought for you as you can see there's more than one there are and this is also makus some say three birra. Some say two birk depending on whether you categorize the first two as one or not. We'll hopefully get to that discussion a little bit next week. Um but look at those and I want to I'm curious to hear from you. Do you think are mitzvah? Are they well they're not although that would be interesting that would be a nice thing to say. They are birken that and that we benefit from them but they're not classically understood to be birken. Usually the conversation is are they mitzvah or are they? What do we think? >> I think all of the above. >> All of the above. Okay. Why do we think all of the above? >> Because we're going to do and thank. So, right. Okay. Good. Okay. Excellent. Okay. So, first it is a bit of a trick question because if you look at the text of the braot themselves, there's more than one brah. It's not an either or. And in fact, if you look, you can see that it seemed the the the text of the braot seemed to indicate that one of them seems to clearly be be a mitzvah. Look at the first brah we say. The first braha we say is written in a classic mitzvah style. Those that those words are generally only written for that are mitzvah. That is a classic beer mitzvah. Okay. Then we go on and we're much more verbose. As I said, there is a an interesting argument amongst the postkim or amongst the the the whether or not should be with meaning does that word is that word a continuation of the previous braha or is it its own braha? Okay. Interesting conversation which like as I said hopefully we'll get to we'll get to next week. But what we see here is that right after we have what we call a beer, a classic birk mitzvah, all of a sudden we have a braha that is much more verbose, much more effusive. It has it has okay so obviously seem to include both. But then the question becomes okay great if we have both is one of them a more dominant theme meaning when we look at should we just say oh this is a combination of two or three different braot or is there one theme either the birkot mitzvah or the shvak/filah that dominates the bir the bottora such that when we when we look at them as a whole we consider them to identify them as one or the other. So it's interesting if you look and and we're going to see that there's a number of interesting practical differences that come up regarding your kotra because because of this question. Let's see first a few sources. If you look at source number two the Ramban in his description and we saw this this this a couple weeks ago. The Ramban feels that there is an act that there is a biblical mitzvah to say that and look at how he describes mitzvah. We're in source number two. we have to thank Hashem every time that we encounter Torah. Every time that we read Torah to elenu, we have to thank Hashem for the for the wonderful gift that he gave us by giving us the Torah and by letting us know what we should be doing so that we can achieve. Okay. So the Ramban interesting only seems to focus on one aspect. His focus is on the aspect of these are about thanking Hashem. He doesn't even mention the the concept of a mitzvah. Obviously it doesn't mean that he doesn't think we should say the first but to him the key or the nature of Torah seems to be about the thanks we give to a bar. Elsewhere we have a couple of places where certain other rishonim seem to focus more on the burekot mitzvah aspect of of of of bottora. If you look at source number three, the rashba one of the early one of the rishonim in his conversation he's discussing the brahood of birkot creatima and he contracts contrasts excuse me berot kachma to birkotra and he says as whereas birkot creatur are not a beer mitzvah it's more of a beer chevak tora is a is a is an actual mitzvah why because when it comes to Torah we say When it comes to we don't say okay look at the look at look at the don't ask don't don't don't don't don't don't don't be amazed it's continuation of an earlier point he says are not your classic mitzvah like Torah Because if it was a regular just like when it comes to reading the Torah, we say the same thing would be if was the same. Okay. So again, we're not going to get into shama right now. We'll get to in in in good time. At this pace, who knows when, but we'll get there. Um but but the point is is that here he's it's clear that the rashba and again we won't see source number four now the raan as well to them to are a classic birk mitzvah a brah that we say before we do a mitzvah now the question becomes why does this all matter rabbi it's a braha what does it matter what kind of brah is what does it matter whether it's a whether it's a birk mitzvah or birvak includes both which one is the focus fascinatingly enough there are a number of very interesting discussions regarding birkotra that I think revolve around this question revolve around the question of whether we look at fundamentally as a bra that we say before we do a mitzvah or it's a bra whose stress is to thank Hashem and to praise Hashem and we do both but which one is the is the key one important conversation and that's what we're going to see now we're going to see a number of what we call navote nav are practical applications that revolve around this question is the dominant factor in your kotra the fact of your mitzvah Or is the dominant factor the fact that it is a bra that is about or as we would call it or of >> but we don't have three different which are >> we're focusing on all of them meaning because >> they're all different ones but what I'm want what I'm asking is which one is the dominant one and you'll see why why I'm saying it that way because because when we discuss the different navamino the nkamino don't say we'll say this one and this way and this they don't they don't divide them up meaning all as You can see the bra do include an aspect of mitzvah and they also include an aspect of what we would call of thanking Hashem. However, we're going to see that there's an important conversation that where there would be a difference between them. There are certain rules by mitzvah that are different than birkah. So which one is the dominant factor? How do we how you you'll understand it better once we see once we once we see some of the one one important nav is the following question. Does a person need to say need to learn Torah? right after they sab your kotra. Okay, meaning I say your kotatra in the morning, do I immediately need to do the mitzvah that I'm that I'm saying. Okay, now this is a bit of an this is a great example of an important namina. If we're talking about a classic mitzvah, a classic mitzvah is a braha you say before you do the mitzvah, which would mean right after you say the braha, you need to do the mitzvah. For example, you only say right before you're about to shake the lulah. You only say the of when you're in the suka ready to sit down. You only say the braha on the talith when you're about to put it on. So the question is if we understand that the dominant theme in birk is that we're saying a braha thanking him for the mitzvah. It's what we would call a classic birkat mitzvah. then I would have to immediately right afterwards learn some Torah because I'm saying a mitzvah if I'm saying a mitzvah if I'm saying thanking Hashem or I'm thanking Hashem for the mitzvah I should do the mitzvah right away and in fact you are correct that is why in our text in our text of the sided we have right after that the the sukim of kohhanim and then there's the bishnayote and then there's the gum that is because we're we end up pusinning practically like the opinion that says you need to learn Torah right after you say the braha. However, if Torah was really more kind of like a beer, what we would call a beer, then just like we said byar, you don't just say a yatsar when you go to the bathroom. You say sorry when you get up in the morning. The same thing could be that you maybe you should say and you're not necessarily obligated to learn right away because all really are about is thanking Hashem that I have the opportunity to learn Torah. It's not a classic birk mitzvah. where I'm simply thanking Hashem and there is a fascinating debate in the rishonim whether there is an actual requirement to learn right after you say or not. Yes. Why is it actually >> ah so it's an excellent question and I think that on some level meaning I think that classically the the two opinions seem to be birk versus birra you are correct that I think and I was we were saying I think it is true that we get that that we that we benefit from it. Um, and I think it would be very inspiring to consider it to be that. I think we generally assume when it comes to beer coat nannin that we refer to physical pleasure as opposed to as opposed to spiritual pleasure. But I also agree with you that it meaning I wouldn't be surprised if I were to find someone who would say that. I just haven't found anyone yet who says it. And I and I and I think I think the idea of saying it is an inspiring idea that we're thanking Hashem for the beautiful benefit that we have. Generally when it comes to birkot nan we refer to physical pleasure as opposed to spiritual pleasure. Yes. >> Would you not say the difference between is that you do say continue the day whenever is necessary whereas you don't say if you're going to share it to >> okay excellent so good so you're making a couple of points there yes that is true and that's another thing we're going to get to in a minute which is one of the questions that is raised it's a famous question that toos asked he says it's a it's a famous question that toos asked which is why do we only say once a day why don't we say it you know if I if I if I sabotra in the morning and then I you know I don't know I go play I go play basketball for a few hours and then afterwards I go to a shir why don't I say kotatra again there's that what we call a half sick so it's it's an excellent question and I think it's also connected to this exact question of how we look at we're going to get we're going to get to that as well to is a very inspiring and beautiful answer which some of you may be familiar with we'll get to u but that is a that is a very important question and you are correct and ashar is a little bit different in that in in that way yes >> the other thing is that if let's say you haven't done anything generated a share. You do want to make that because you do want to make sure that your body >> that's true 100% true. Um I think you know but I think we also want to generate the opportunity to learn Torah. I'm not I'm not minimizing what you're saying but I think we could you know we could argue that we also want to have that too. >> But I agree with you. I agree with you. Yes. >> Correct. Correct. Absolutely. Absolutely. So you're saying it's maybe we're preempting it >> as opposed to after >> after. Correct. Correct. Although although a classic nan you make before you eat. You do sometimes make the braha before. You are correct the text is anticipating. But when we talk about classic beer cutin which we're talking about let's say before you say a shahak or you still make the braha before you benefit with the idea being you shouldn't benefit without first asking thanking. >> Yes. Correct. you're requesting >> correct. No, you you are you are 100% but there's both aspects to it. We also thank Bakar was thanking Hashem for the for choosing us. So there's really both aspects aspects to it. That's the beauty of this braha is that it really doesn't tell everything and what I'm asking right now is just what's the you know what's the fundamental part of it? What's what's the what's the most important although they're all they're all there. So regarding this question of whether a person needs to learn right after they say right after they they say the brahot look at source number five. You have a question question. Um, what about saying words of Torah before you make the because in in my Torah was before the >> Excellent question. We're going to get to that next week. What what what do you need to do or what things need to be said can be said before Torah is an excellent very important question as well. Um, we say in the morning very often that during that time before can you do that? What can be said? What can be said? Excellent excellent question. Okay, look at source number five. The Rambam in source number five is very clear that right after a person says he needs to learn Torah again he calls them three the three and then you need to learn a little bit. You need to learn right after you say the right and he said he quotes the minhog that people say which is to say the he quotes other other examples of other things other excerpts from Torah that some people that some people do do say we're not going to see that all inside. However, if you look at source number six, um, within this conversation, it's not so clear that that's necessarily required. Now, source number six is raising a different question, which which we discussed briefly last week. And then that will eventually lead to what we're trying to to to the to the other opinion. The gamarra discusses what happens if someone forgot to say kotatra. Okay, a person woke up for whatever reason, he was rushing, his heads wasn't there. He he he forgot to say, but he dove the rest of davining. So, what should he do? So the garra says a person got up to learn. Okay, let's say you got up and sorry this is the case. Let's say you got up and you want to learn before. So he says if you haven't yet said you still need to say but if let's say you didn't say and you only realized after dvening if you said the which is the second right before that can count for your for your Torah. Why? Because the theme of aava is all about Hashem giving us the Torah and choosing us as his nation and the love that we have with him and therefore that can count as your birkota to Torah. That's exactly what Rashi explains in s in at right in source number six as well says Rashi why can this count because it's similar in theme to it says it's also that you should give in our hearts to learn and to teach right and it says that we should be able to fulfill all the words of your Torah and and that we should be able to learn and to teach uh all of all of your all of your it says Rashi because it's the same theme therefore it can count as Torah when thei brings this same it adds something very important what does the addar in source number sevenish a person got up and he wants to learn before he has to say but if he already said which means he already already said the beer code. He does not have to make a because can count. There's one other requirement says the if you want to count as your botra you have to make sure to learn Torah right after davening because in order for this to count as your as your birk tora you have to do some learning. Okay, if you're in the middle of doing, you still have to say the rest of domining, but right after davening, you should learn Torah. Now, that line is missing from Aragra. Our Gimmorra never explicitly says that after a person says Birk Torah, he needs to say he needs to learn Torah. So whereas the Rambam says it and whereas the Rushi says it, our Gimarra doesn't say it. And this bothers Tossfos. Toss wonders why is it that our gimmar doesn't actually say after saying bottora you have to learn Torah look at >> we'll get there we'll get there we'll get there well the Rambam says it the Rambam understands it again I think part of it has to do with well what type of rah is this if you depending on how you look at the braha look at toos >> be what's included in in Torah it could be that you know that everything you do is >> is part of Torah well that's going to be very relevant for for for the next question regarding the question of what happens if I have a heft sake. Why is that not considered a that's that's that's it's a fair point. We'll get to that. Okay. Look at toos to says source number eight this on this he quotes the he says that can only count as if you learn right after the end of dening. It means you learn right there after in order so that this can count and then the question was asked you go what about us we don't learn Torah right after what he's quoting a community in their community they said in the morning and they didn't say any other learning they didn't have what we have as all of that so they're asking balos are asking why is it that in our communities we say but we don't learn anything we don't learn after we don't learn right there how is that allowed it's against this that's the question that has he says right if you go to any any normal community what happens right after dinging how many people do you know that sit down right after dinging take out a safe start learning Torah most people are rushing out they got to eat breakfast they got to go to work they got to take their kids to school everybody's running no one's staying to learn Torah in our communities there's no there's no Torah learning so then How this shami said to you that in order for it to count as you had to learn Torah. We don't do that in our communities. That's to that's question. We often won't learn until the middle of the day or hours later. If we weren't then because we didn't learn right after we said the so why don't we have to say again? Answers toos and we're in the third line of the second paragraph. do kimalan cyoto yushi we don't paskin like that meaning we hold says the that you don't need to learn immediately after saying you should say that's part of our but you don't need to actually do lira afterwards in order to be saying our gumar doesn't actually mention the need to learn then he continues Oh, he gives another interesting. And then he gives another suggestion and he says maybe there's a middle ground. He says maybe there's a difference between birkota tora the classic birkot tora and aavar bir torah says tovos that can count in your yote even if you don't learn right after you say the braha which isn't the natural birra you're taking a different and you want it to count for then you need to explicitly learn right after you say okay so we have a wide range of opinions here we have some rishim who say right If you wanted to count forat right after you say you have to learn if you don't if other opinion other other isim say no say the bra and you'll learn whenever you learn and it and it works. The third opinion is well it depends if it's or it's if it's which is all about learning Torah once you say it you don't need to learn anymore which is meant you want it to be as a replacement it's not naturally the Torah in order to activate it being if you're qualifying as Torah then you need to learn right afterwards so we have a whole range yes >> I really don't understand >> good so that's correct >> correct so that was that's the qu A lot of people ask that a lot a lot of ask that and they understand that that it's a question whether or not is considered to be is considered to be libu meaning which is important for us because it means that when we say when we say those the parts that we do say it's meant to be Torah learning as opposed to you're saying as a form of that's the different it's a very good question I didn't get into it because but you are you are it is a very good point which is that those are sukkim from the Torah but because they're being said as therefore or they don't consider it to be but it's it's an excellent an excellent question. Okay. So again, we have a range of opinions here and and I'd like to suggest and I think this question revolves around the question we first asked are mitzvah or are they what we would call a ifma are fundamentally a mitzvah then when you say immediately after you say the braha you would be required to learn Torah because just like every other bir mitzvah and that's what the Rambam was saying and that's perhaps what the usual was saying but others say they say no this isn't the classic mitzvah it's true it might have aspects of that but what it's fundamentally about is this is av learning just like we saw earlier you say even if you didn't yet go to the bathroom it's part of our text of that we say we thank Hashem for various things throughout the morning and this is part of it and therefore even if you don't fundamentally learn practically learn right then and there the braha you're saying is going to count because you said you thanked Hashem for for the now how do we pin so there's a whole range we're not going to see it all inside now because of as many of you know our general minhag is right after because of this question in order to be all the different so after we we whenever we say in the morning we say the we say some subsukim from the Torah we say amishna and then we also quote some in order to fulfill the mitzvah of Torah learning immediately after We excuse me immediately after we say after we say the braha. Interestingly enough, the same thing is said regarding that if a person practically wants to qualify as his bure then he or she should make sure that at the end of dvening he does a little bit of learning in order to ensure that the brah is going on because again we want to we want to try to be all of the different all of the different shad. Okay. So that's question number one. Yes. Sorry. Okay. Second. Excellent. Excellent question. Also an excellent question. What's the difference between and motora? We'll get to it. I think I think there's a lot to learn from that. >> I well correct correct meaning if it's a why say as opposed to mod means to in involve ourselves. Maybe it's teaching us that that to that the mitzvah of Torah learning is not simply learning but is being invested. >> No, but it's not just for one thing. It's continuous also correct correct good so good so now we're gonna get now we're gonna get to the to the to the question of to this is the ne the next the next practical difference between whether mitzvah are fundamentally sorry fundamentally mitzvah or would be why is it that we only say it once a day right why is it that I only say this braha once a day this is the question this is the question that tovos that same to that we saw earlier asks if you look at source number 10 ask to the following question Tomar hard and if you will say my schna muka okay suka is actually a great example because suka is something we often will do many times during the day I go into the suka I eat my breakfast I then go out on a tulle I come back in and I want to take a nap I go back out and the every time I go and I have a meal assuming I left the suka for some amount of time I make a new again there's a big question when you under which circumstances you need to make a new we're not going to get into that but it's clear that if you had what we call a hefts an interruption between the previous time you were in the you definitely make a new braha so what about here vomar to say something beautiful sorry we're in source number 10 source number 10 >> oh I apologize must be I must be I must have I must have okay so give One second. I apologize for the confusion. My my version has some notes on it, so I have a So, it could be that I didn't do it correctly. Um, >> no, no, no, no. I apolog This all got messed up. Give me one second. I'm sorry. Okay. Sorry. Now, we're skip I I see that I didn't Okay, we're going to source number 17. Skip to number 17. We're doing We're doing things a little bit out of order. >> We're doing it out of order. No, no, no. I I see that I changed it in in my version, but I didn't change it in your version. Source number 17, forgive me. Source number 17. Why do we only say this braha once a day says toosar? And here we only make the bra once. Torah says says the says toos. Torah is different because Torah never leaves your mind. little mode because the obligation to learn Torah exists throughout the day. As the Puk says for Yeshua, the Torah says that Torah is something which we need to be involved in day and night. And therefore, there is a continuous obligation to learn Torah throughout the day. And therefore, even if at some point I'm going to play something, I have a meeting, I'm dealing with my business, I'm doing all the other things that I'm doing, the obligation to learn Torah is always there when I am able to. And therefore, nothing else that I'm doing is considered an interruption. below. It says if because that obligation is there and therefore your thinking about Torah is always meant to be front and center. There was never any what we would call a heft an interruption. But when it comes to sitting in the suka, eating in the suka, that's something you do at certain times and therefore it's defined and therefore you need to make a bra each time. Now what exactly does this mean? What does it mean that when it comes to learning Torah I'm obligated all all the time and therefore I'm always thinking about it. So Rafalik if you look what for you would be source oh I see all the they're all off. If you look the end the second source 12 the very end here Rafalik has a beautiful essay uh this was impromptu remarks that he was once asked to give apparently uh after his shior finished a makda to talk about uh limitra and he gave this beautiful beautiful essay where he talks about this toos. What does mean here? What does towos mean when he says that we're always thinking about learning? Many of us are going about our lives throughout the day, not always thinking about learning Torah. So look at source number 12. Second 12. Torah should not be just an intellectual pastime. Talmud Torah should be an emotional experience as well. One should feel a tremor when engaged in it. The Torah should be not seen not just as a book, but as a living personality like the Shabbat queen with whom one can establish an I th that relationship. If I look at the Talmud as simply paper and print, as merely text, I would never be creative. Torah is a friend. When you apprehend the Torah as a personality, not just a book, it infiltrates your emotional as well as your intellectual life. This is the reason we say Torah. Lass implies that even when we are mentally involved with something else, we are aware of Torah. This awareness of Torah should become part of our eye awareness. Just as I am always aware of my existence without having to walk around saying I exist, I exist. So should I be aware of Torah? Apparently there are two kinds of awareness according to Tosfoot. The first is an acute awareness. Clearly this is lacking when one thinks about other matters. The second is latent awareness and this awareness is still present even though one is engaged in other matters. And here he brings a beautiful comparison. When a mother plays with her child, there is an acute awareness of the child. But when the mother works at a job or is distracted by some other activity, there is a natural latent awareness of her child's existence. This latent awareness remains throughout her entire lifetime and can never be extinguished. It is expressed in commitment, devotion, a feeling of identification, a feeling that I and the baby are one. The infant is the center of gravity of the parents lives. They feel they cannot live without their child. The same is true with regards to Torah or should be hashem with regards to Torah. There not may not be an acute awareness of Torah for 24 hours a day, but the latent awareness never ceases. No matter how much involved one is in other other matters, there should always be an awareness of the appreciation of Torah of the highest value. So very inspiring words by Rosalvich. What exactly does toos mean that we're always involved? What it means is as he said, there's two different types of awareness. There's the awareness, what he calls the acute awareness of what I'm involved in right now. But then there's always what are my priorities? What are the things that are important to me? What are the things that I really care about? The latent awareness. And a Jew automatically naturally says Tosphos always has in a latent awareness of his obligation to learn Torah and to study Torah. And therefore, there's never a heftsake any kind of interruption between the braha and between all other times that he's learning. Another way of saying this, and again this might not be what Ra Salvich is saying, uh, and it might not even be what Tosfos is saying, but another way of saying this could also be similar to what I think someone was suggesting before, which is Torah isn't just meant to be learned, it's meant to be lived. And so when we live our lives alra, even if that sometimes means that we're involved in secular matters, when I'm exercising, if I'm exercising because it gives me the strength and the ability to be a better person and a better Jew and to be healthy and in my life, then that's also part of my living of of of a Torah life. And therefore, if the braha isn't just about limu Torah, but is about living a life of Torah, perhaps we can also suggest that our lives are all part of them. There never is any heaps. Okay. >> I would think I would think the I would I would tap into that you know >> exactly. So that's again the highlighted the highlighted exactly 100% although the rough salviche was suggesting that lasso implies a constant involvement in even if you're not practically in but yes it depends how you understand lasso but here's the thing getting back to our initial question are mitzvah or toos's initial question why how can we say it only once only starts if you assume that bottora mitzvah why because the whole issue of how can I make a braha now and do the action later there's a heftsake how does the brah I make in the morning go on throughout the day that's only if you understand that we're dealing with a classic birkat mitzvah whenever you have a birk mitzvah there has to be an immediate connection between the braha and the mitzvah you're doing and so to says how can the braha in the morning count throughout the day but if we understand that mitzvah is not a bat tora is not a birk mitzvah it's a bra we say every morning as part of our then to's question doesn't even really start because it's a braha we say in the morning and even if there is a disconnect between the braha and the act of learning Torah that's okay because all I'm doing in the morning just like we said with or other things we say we're just thanking Hashem for the opportunity to learn Torah and even if I end up learning Torah later on there's no issue with that and so this whole question only starts by taking one understanding or focusing on the brot mitzvah aspect of of of birkot tora. That's another what we call navkamina a practical difference a way to understand c uh another issue. There's one other one other important question we only have a few minutes so we'll do it a little bit quicker than normal and that is okay in your in your in your sheets. Let's go back to source number 10. Source number 10. Do are women obligated in birkot tora? Do women have to say bkota? So uh spoiler alert source number 10 says the absolutely women do say. However the question that you could ask is why why are women obligated or why should women say the we know that the obligation of women regarding limra is not the same as a man. Women aren't don't have the same obligation. Yes. You say it's something that's ever all the time. >> Excellent. That's true. True. Although the Garra in Kaducian talks about women not being obligated in in in in limbo Torah not because of the Garra explicitly just says it learns it from the we're not we don't have time to see it inside. The meaning the the the the pure the exemption for women from from Talmutra isn't based on mitzvah. Although what you're saying is a very nice nice point. It's just it's it's it's a limit of the Gar the GMR in Kadushian says explicitly women are not obligated in Talmra. So the question becomes if women are not obligated sorry just because of time I want to I want to make sure we finish if if women are not obligated in Torah so why do they say the braha okay so there's a few different answers that are suggested number one the gra says well we have many mitzvot that women are not obligated in but if they do the mitzvah then they say the braha what's an example of women who are ashkanaz will make the brahasuka some will make the brah on on lul love right there are any examples of where women aren't obligated and yet they still say the so that could be the case here. The problem with that is it doesn't fit in with the because the is of the opinion that if women do a mitzvah that they're not obligated in they shouldn't say the that's why many women if they will do or sit in the they don't make the braha or let's say all of those they won't make the bra and therefore we have to explain the why is it that according to the women need to make the if they're not obligated in the mitzvah. So if you look at source number 12 again, you know, we'll say it outside again just because of time. Um the bases a few different suggestions as to why women should still make the Torah even though they're not obligated on the same level as a man. Number one, many point out that the seems to refer only to to uh sorry the yeah only to number two another he says there is an there is an idea that even those who suggest that women are not fully obligated they still should they still should learn Torah in order to know what to do meaning there are many areas where women are expected or should learn Torah and therefore in those areas where they should learn Torah there's they they should certainly be be able to make the braha however Ever if you look at source number 16 and with this we will end the Grizzik has a beautiful suggestion he says I don't understand the question says I don't understand why people asking look at verse number 16 the question that all the ask is why are women why do women make the kotra They're putter from Titra. So if they're putter from Torah, so then why are they making the braha says the grizzen which is a reference to his father says the grid this is based on this issue of whether women should make is very much connected to the question we started with or fundamentally avo. So only someone who's obligated in the mitzvah should say the braha. And then we get into the whole question, well why are women saying the braha if they're not obligated? Maybe they're obligated in certain things. Maybe even if they're not obligated in other things or maybe they can make the braha anyway because they want to do it. But says the grizz. But there's another understanding of bottora which is that bottora aren't a bot mitzvah. It's a bat invashem that's relevant to anybody. If biritzvah are fundamentally about fundamentally about just thanking Hashem every single day for the opportunity to live a life of Torah to have Torah in our lives even if we were to say that women are not obligated to learn Torah that is still very much relevant to them. There's a concept of saying thank you to Hashem and Davening that the Torah should enter our lives and that braha should exist is relevant even for somebody who technically might not be obligated in the mitzvah and there said therefore says Salvetic certainly women should make the brat to Torah. Okay. Okay. So what we saw today just very very briefly we started with one fundamental question regarding briotra are birkh about are they mostly a what we would call birkat mitzvah a braha that you say whenever you make a whenever you do a mitzvah or are they more similar to what we would call a birk a braha that we say thanking hashem praising hashem and perhaps doing that on a daily basis regardless of actually benefiting or or doing or doing the mitzvah. We saw three main we we we me we noted that the brahood include both but which is the dominant feature of these brahot. We saw three different interesting navote practical questions regarding Torah that are connected that could revolve around this question. Number one does one need to learn Torah right after he says the braot or not. Number two what how is it that we could say the braha in the morning and it could somehow apply to the entire day? The question of tovot. And the third question was are women obligated in or why are women obligated in birkota even if they don't have the same level of obligation that men do when it comes to learning Torah. And we saw that each of those issues can be very much connected to this question of what about regarding the nature of birra. Wishing everybody a wonderful week and