Ashkenazi~Sefardi Customs - Pronunciations (Pt II) | Rabbi Anthony Manning

good to see you thank you for coming out um if you could ask if I could ask you please to turn off your cell phones that would be great just pop them on to silence so that we don't get interrupted and also if I could thank our sponsors for the whole of 2025 the sponsored brand andman so thank you very much for that I'm going to move this over here so I can read my okay so last week we started something that we did not get chance to finish and I quickly realized that this would need to be a series of three Shi Rim um last week we started with some history and looked at the development of different havat Havas however you want to say it um ashkenaz andit and yemenites etc etc um this week we need to we rushed a little bit at the end last week and therefore I'd like to just go back the for the five minutes that we rushed and make sure we understand that properly because this week we'll start to get into the question of changing the havarah when can you when should you when must you when may you not Etc and there are also in addition to today's Sher there's going to have to be one more installment which is looking at the 20th century Chas we might get to see RF cook today we might we'll see if we get time I put it on this s sheet just in case looking at the 20th century Chas with the establishment of the state of Israel um and the growth if you like of the the push in to teachit in the schools and therefore we will see Chas we will see R cook R Herzog R pesak Frank we will see r y Vice writing a Chu to the British Chief Rabbi Rabbi bro asking what shall we do in our schools where there are iitz teachers now coming in from Israel Etc and it doesn't always go the way you expect it to go for example we'll see today R cook is absolutely if we get there if not then don't worry we'll see it next time rev cook is absolutely unequivocal that one may not change ones Hab and if you are an ashkanazi you must DAV and Lane with an ashis laning um you may ask well if you've ever been to amas Arab uh then that's not what happens there except maybe the Rashia Yeshiva who still speak with the ashaz so we'll talk about why that is and how that happened Etc uh and of course we need to see some of the S chuat as well um just in terms of housekeeping I am not going to be here next week or the week after I'm traveling to America I'm going to be recruiting and speaking in various places I'll be in Silver Spring Baltimore uh and Manhattan going to London for a few days so I won't be here they will be Shirin they won't be on this topic but they will be shim I'm not sure who but Rabbi sure will fill you all in um three weeks from now I hope to be back but it won't be this topic because we're having a yum Yun there's a yum Yun on purin topics and there's going to be a very different line up in the morning I will be speaking but it'll be a Purim related topic um this year you may be aware is pmash uh we've had a few of those over the last few years but this is the last one till 2045 so um I figured that even though I hope that we will all be together in 2045 continuing our series I can't guarant seee it uh therefore I will uh I will deal with that issue please God three weeks from now um and then the next year after that we'll finish this series and then we'll be into prep pesak I don't want to freak you out or stress you in any way but pesak is coming I already ordered my Matas um and we'll talk about that then okay let's have a look now some of the issues we haven't really talked much yet about the issues as to how to pronounce God's name and how to pronounce Hebrew um again a few of these sources right at the very beginning we covered quickly at the end but we'll soon be in new fertile territory so why does it matter what what could be uh critical about pronouncing something in the right havar um what if a spar Jew wants to be y kides by an ashkanazi who is making kides and ashkanazi hav there is a rumor that the is said that you cannot be yish by somebody who has a different hav to your and we'll see if that rumor is substantiated or not we'll see who quotes it we'll see who doesn't quote it I remember many years ago we went to say with very Israeli friends of ours that live in kakar and which was very beautiful and they asked me I'd miss the Kish whatever they asked me if I would make kiddish so I stood up and made my very ashis Kish like I do because I speak with from the old country and the kids had never heard this before the kids thought it was like por the kids are rolling around laughing thinking what a funny guy like who is this man you just brought to make kidish they' never heard anything like it so that was very funny at the time I remember that distinctly um but what's the deal so we'll have a look so let's start with number one at First Site for it should not make much of a difference look at number one let's start together the following things can be said in any language you like para sta when the when the SAA is being admonished before the before the uh the ritual there VI where the farmer declares that he's given all the Trum and mishma can be in any language you can say it in English can you can say it in English you can Ben in English you can take a sh that you have no testimony you don't know anything about the matter that they're discussing you can do that in English and if you're making a sh in the B that you don't you never have possession of an item that you're claimed this claim that you have it I never had it you can do that in any language you like f kishma seems not to be a problem if you can say it in English then who cares how you pronounce it in Hebrew we'll see it's not so straightforward but then it says but the following things have to be in if you're making this declaration about the bringing the mikdash if a woman is involved as a and he has she has to declare things during ceremony she has to say it in Hebrew grou uh we saw last week if you recall ra mosha Feinstein uses this as a proof that all the havat must be kosher all halic forms of all all modern forms of pronouncing Hebrew contemporary Community forms must be koser otherwise a woman who's doing KH would have had to savor KH in five or six different habat just to make sure that she's getting the right one see we never heard such a thing maybe shom we heard such a thing but not for and therefore it must be that all the correct we saw that but it must be in Hebrew that is we'll get to that in a minute has to be in correct Hebrew Etc fine let us move on to a very important starting point in number two for how would we Define proper Hebrew so a man from and a man from may not we do not allow them to says we have like this as well not just but any we will not allow the person to be the if they come from if they come from and another place I don't exactly know where it is fine we won't let them what's that it's in the north great so we don't we won't let the either they cannot distinguish between their Alf and their okay and neither can I really but they can't do that so they they qualified Rashi explains why this is very important number three so Rashi understands it's not just that they speak it a different way they speak in the wrong way m means they mess up they stummer they start they pronounce it wrong the language that they're saying and that's why they're prohibited from going up um and Rashid then says in number three second line okay so is easy because it has okay God May light up his face so Rashi says if you let these people do you'll say and they'll pronounce it with an iron which God will burn his face to you which is and there are many examples where the's P can mean God's anger you see that in says I'll put my face to this person it can be a negative thing we don't want you saying with an because that's a CLW and what about the other way around what about people who pronounce theiron as an alive well there is no iron in b so that's obviously not talking about he says they mess up their okay it's not a problem in but it's a problem in DAV he says elsewhere when we say inas and I didn't speak about this last week there were B mid where they'd flip the and the Al and the Al and the he says that wasn't the way they DED that was to make D when they want to make AA in the word they can say don't read for example or with an iron when they say the um the when they made for fora Adam and clothing made of or with an iron say or with an Alf made of light it was the light the clothing was radiating light he says no no no no he says don't think they were switching because they couldn't D properly they were intentionally switching to make dra shots because it sounds a bit the same it's interesting the fact that you can make a Dr between an Alf and an ion maybe implies that it does sound sound a little bit the same because it's a very different letter but he says that's nothing to do with this so we're not allowed to have situations where people are going to pronounce this wrong this is ma so the question is kind I understand because it has to be in Hebrew but what's the problem with daving daving doesn't even have to be in Hebrew it can be in English we said that before so why are you worried that somebody pronounces aliv and N the wrong way around so we'll see in a few minutes let's look at page number two look at number four says the rvas the rvas was living in Egypt in the 1500s he has he was asked to the Greek okay Cloud they don't they can't say at all we know lots of people like that right happy happy Hanukah yeah HSA lots of people find it very very difficult to say I don't quite understand why because most people can say Y and if you say y why can't they say but okay I have no idea there's obviously something deep there going on they can't say they don't say God will be gracious to you which will go give you hor God will give you wealth okay that's not so terrible it's the wrong words and it has to be in Hebrew do we let them or do we not let them so he says and this is what you might argue okay they pronounce things wrong didn't we see in the they're not allowed to he says but I'll tell you something of course in in the places where they came from inan in of course they let these people what they're saying that nobody in could because they didn't have the right pronunciation of course they were allowed to D where people knew where they what they were saying because if you don't say that they would have had no one to DAV they would got to DAV they well we have to skip this I'm sorry because no one can pronounce it properly they wouldn't have said if you want to say no no no they would bring in guest like every day and guest coim to do the who could pronounce it properly no that doesn't sound realistic that's there's no indication of that in the G if it's in a place it must be where they speak that way is talking about a place where they're not normally from there and therefore it's unusual the did who because for the people that they're visiting they were they were they were they stammered they started they said it wrong but for their own place meaning even if you want to argue he says and this Ras is brought down in that there are people who mispronounce the daving or mispronounce the brick cing in a place where that's how everybody davens it's obviously fine it's obviously fine because everybody knows exactly what you're talking about and I go one stage further and I mentioned this very briefly last week the T Evan in number five says I go even further when Rashi said that it was a problem it was a problem because it came out as a curse it came out as a curse what if it just comes out wrong but not a curse meaning there came out with an iron but what if he's just pronouncing the words so he says who says that's even a problem if they mispronounce in anyway if they mispronouncing or even in if it's not coming out as a curse so okay you know it's not coming out quite right but it's not a bad thing he says what about is only a problem if they're being Mo to you remember it used to be that the said and he covered the people who were standing and listening and saying a and when you say to the it's as if you'd said the BR okay there you can understand if the gets it wrong is in the wrong hav a different hav whatever that's not good for you because it's as if you said it and you don't speak that way but if it's just for them what's the problem at all and therefore he minimizes this issue very very significantly there are other examples where we find this and this is already new territory we didn't we hadn't seen this last week number seven this is very interesting gamar says the following Ben the people who lived in Judea they were very careful how they pronounced words and therefore they retained very accurate traditions in Torah because they pronounce the words exactly right butal but the people in the Galilee and of course Judea and the Galil were two very different places and this is the origin this gor of one of the theories as to where the Ash gazis and saris departed from each other we said last week maybe it was Judea and the Galilee maybe they were two different pronunciations but these they don't speak properly they can't keep Torah straight because you don't know what they're saying I'm says is there anybody for example ABA said Can anyone speak to the and they are very careful is it is it with an in the Mish or with an iron ask them because they know and don't forget it was all oral it was B so we need to know someone who can pronounce it right it's a waste of time what does it mean and he gives a funny story there was a man from the Galilee to have a he went around in the marketplace saying he said does anyone have Amar I need Amar who's selling Amar so they responded to him they said said to him G foolish gilean why are you speaking that way what on Earth are you asking for are you asking for a donkey to ride on or or beard to drink or or wool to make cloth from or or or or a lamb to slaughter meaning we don't know what you're talking about all you're saying is it could be it could be it could be it could be anything therefore you don't go you don't listen to these people they can't they don't have clear T because they don't pronounce the words properly similarly number eight son was learning with now is very is the author of The to or many of the toas the generation after R who put together the mishna if you weren't if you were rather a Ley he said to him we said this briefly last week you would be you would be disqualified from singing in the BET mdash course there was noash now because your voice is terrible you have a terrible voice you should not even be singing at all if you were a Ley I will parel you so he went home and he told his dad this is what my teacher told me I have a voice like a fog horn and he would pule me from the from the L so he said to him okay you say to him next time you have a class when you get in to the verse I wait for I I I yearn for you'll be you'll be blaspheming why rash says because he PR also couldn't pronounce and it's he didn't say he said and I and I smack Hashem I I beat Hashem so you tell him now very interesting there's a there's a villon the V Genius of the Von the villon quotes AI which says that re saw a person violating Shabbat so he didn't say anything at the time and he waited till the next day and then he wrote down on a piece of paper and handed to him those who are will die he had so so so the vagon says why did he wait till the next day and write it on a piece of paper he said because we know about he couldn't anoun his and his so if You' have said it at the time it would have come out as that people who pray Shabbat will surely die and that's now you know you have to be such a genius to join everything together why he wrote it down on a piece of paper and gave it to him the next day otherwise you think what on Earth is he doing why why is he doing that nevertheless and here is the here is the the key re was appointed as the this man who could not pronounce his and his ha nevertheless number nine says say the the very one who told his own son to go back and tell you would be blaspheming against God because of your pronunciation he he declared a fast and he brought down re and his sons to davar when he got to okay when he got to mash he saidh the wind began to blow Amar when he said the rain began to fall when he got to saying ra the whole world began to shake meaning this is the man who is the guy when you really need somebody to DAV like no one else can DAV one second this is the man who can't pronounce his ding so how does it fit so these two answers in toas are the key and we'll see this is BR down by the Miss look at number 10 look at this carefully because tus explains this in two different ways again what's our problem is the one who is singled out as someone who cannot pronounce his words properly and yet he's been appointed to number 10 say a problem since he couldn't say why why was he the man why was he the one appointed as on this special day the answer is if he really really tried hard he could really do it if he really tried but it was really hard for him to do so this is not somebody who could who would mispronounce ding it's someone who found it hard to pronounce Ding and therefore since he was the man who could bring the he took a chance with him he said you know something you're the man we need but try hard to pronounce it the right way even though it's really hard for you in says no I don't think that's the answer at all look even though we have this rule we don't bring down people who can't pronounce this properly this is all the question if you have options you can pick a who pronounces everything everything right okay the but here there was no one else to D you couldn't ask anyone else to D even though he's definitely going to pronounce it wrong it's not that he he he can do it if he really works hard TOS says here no this idea of having a SCH who pronounces with the correct havar the right way Etc is ideal when all other things are equal you can have such a person but if all of the things are not equal then you have to appoint who's needed so now we get to all of the people who DAV and mess up all the words this fellow has your side and O he's got your side he can't sing he can't D and he pronounces all the words wrong so how which way did you go so according to the first host say I'm sorry if he just can't do it he just can't do it there I'll tell you a story this is a true story you cannot make this stuff up one of my friends who was a ROV not for very long it must be said but he was a r okay he called me up one day he said I know what to do there's a fellow in my sh and he loves to DAV and he's always volunteering it's a little shw in you know out of town and he says when he gets to he says God with destroys the whole world and he said and I didn't know what to say he's quite sensitive he says you know I went up to him in kdes one day and I said you know something we really appreciate your contribution to the shore we love your daving it really is something look forward to but there's just one tiny thing that maybe you could just think about and he didn't say anything he got a letter from this guy the next week I'm never coming back to your Shore I'm never going to come here again how dare you treat me this way and in case you think this is exaggerated obviously you've never been involved in any sh in your whole life okay and he said he said to me this guy the r r me up says what can what can I do I I did everything by The Playbook I was polite I told him how great he was Etc nope so what do we do the answer is according to the second host if that's how who you got to have because you're going to make Aus okay that's who you got to have I knew there was was a sh um on Friday nights the law of there is no in Hashem there is no negative no this guy never said the LA he said hasem is what are you going to say you know he said it every single week you going to take the guy off according is saying to us as if it's going to cause is no yeah oh oh okay okay that's very interesting one someone always someone also told me many years ago the word okay is okay okay fine so so which way are we going to go so there's a there's a very interesting rambam let's look at this rambam together number 12 says the rambam who should be your prayer leader who should be your the great person in the community okay has to be someone who's a someone who does Good Deeds who keeps mitv Etc fine that's the first the second but someone who can't pronounce this properly funny words I get wrong here yeah anyone who can't pronounce the words properly you may not appoint them okay good and then the last and the rav can ask one of the to DAV if the r wants to ask him okay innocent enough how do you put those three together so most the say Okay so the first is you should have the great person in the community to lead the D name and the last which is that the RF can ask anybody is that he can be he can say okay in this case I'm gonna ask you to DAV even though you're not the biggest even though you're not the biggest person in the community they're very nice that's how the K Mission understands but the and also the sh say no no no no no that last is not going back on the first one it's going back on the second one which is the rav can the great person should DAV H number one number two you mustn't appoint somebody who can't say the words properly and number three but the rav can ask anyone if the rav decides that's the person you need to ask meaning it's qualifying the second one not the first one that even someone who cannot pronounce their words properly um can be asked to DAV and I brought you the in number 13 where it says that in theory you're not meant to you're not meant to appoint somebody who cannot govern properly and the mission AB basically brings these two views of toas one View being if he can do it with difficulty that's okay and the other view being no even if he can't do it even with difficulty then it's okay if you really need to if there's a good reason to and then he says at the end but best off not to appoint them as a as a fixed because you know a fixed K you have to fire afterwards we don't really have fixed Kaz much he's saying a temporary thing might be open okay so where does that leaves us with with the bottom line is if this person is ding from the AR doesn't matter what hav they have if there's a right if there's a good reason for them to be daving then you're Yu with the daving now what about the Kish who said you're not Yi with you're not Yi with KES rather Etc so I brought you a footnote on the on the first page you don't need to look at it now um but Radu quotes this in the name of the Kaz says I find it very difficult to believe that the Kazan actually said this it is brought down other people do quote it uh but this is this is brought down by the but most people doubt strongly whether the Kish came out and said something so clear because why would that be the case for here as we've said before now what about kma kishma has an added level to it because it's the not just thean so have a look on page four and this is a material I think that you'll find very interesting the mishna brings in number 15 someone who reads the but they they don't say it out loud they can't hear what they're saying then that's okay says no they're not unless they say it out loud okay second someone who read the but they weren't absolutely meticulously careful with every word says says they're not y so you have two disagreements here do you have to say it out loud one view says you have to and the other view says you should but your y if you don't the second is you have to be M what if you read without so careful so one view says you're not yod one view says you are yod how do we pass him and by the way these two are correct connected because if you're saying aity out loud then there's such a thing as saying it accurately if you're saying it in your head there's no such thing as car if it's all in your head so the two are connected so the gamar says we're leaning on both number 16 look at number 16 so he says says we pass like both of these opinions on the lenient side we're lenient with that how do we know ideally you should pronounce everything exactly right but if you didn't do it if you Wen then you're y so so we have a statement here says for the word it says in the which means you shall teach them and make you have to have a pure learning your should beim and he gives some interesting examples and we know this if you say the shma which I'm sure everybody does you have to be very careful with certain letters where the word ends with the same letter as the next word begins be careful with words that could stick together said here are some examples could easily come out of okay or you have to have a little bit of a a slight break and then look at this next one that's not the same sound it's not and it's not so they want to bring from here it could be that the the D was less pronounced back in the day that this was one of the things that they understood to be a word that could be connected the okay also interesting you could get that all together have to be careful etc etc um so these are things which are Di and we pass in yatsa if you low di you're still y one of my russan Yesa said this is what you call um someone who read but they weren't careful says there are some people but they they become so obsessive and compulsive about it that they they they they almost you get to the point where it's Dake thear you were so careful that you didn't even read it what you were doing was some kind of exercise in pronunciation rather than actually reading the shma got a question okay good but still they should know how to pronounce it t they should know that at the beginning if you have a bed at the beginning of the word has always has a Dage in it still but they would know how to read the shma nothing had what if they said all of the vows wrong they they know how the vows work etc and that's the the ramban brings it down number 17 you should be very careful to pronounce it exactly right but if you didn't do it right then you are exactly right you are still Y and he brings us examples of things that he means even every D and every and every should if possible be correct and that's what's brought down in the Mish that you should try very hard even though you have to a mitv to try very hard now the brings from the from the dictate doesn't mean that you said the words wrong if you said the words wrong then that's just you didn't read it you just said the wrong words and then you're definitely not Y at all so what's with someone's have a there a you know fellow saying the and he says it is is that called car dict or is that just called like what is he reading what is he saying this is just not you know how does that work we'll see rev cook talks about that in a minute we'll see if we get to rev cook how does that work and by the way the the M says the the reward if you are if you careful how you read it then uh then you the fires of geham are cooled down H how how does the one thing connect with the other he says because people are very impatient when they're daing I've noticed this and I've noticed it myself as I get older I get less and less patient maybe that's just a normal thing you have to work on it he says one of the things you have to do is cool down your lack of patience with other people and if you cool yourself down then the fires of ganam get cooled down as well if you write read with with rev and soft and clearly Etc one thing is for sure though if you pronounce the words wrong Noah to anything people say there is no such series of words as it's not Hebrew that no matter what your pronunciation is and if somebody says nobody's go through at all it's just not it doesn't have it doesn't have it's not and you have to uh you have to uh be careful with this and because it sometimes goes wrong rakov kineski was asked this very question look at number 20 he wrote A has to a saer called saura about all these issues and ravak kineski writes and we said last week in here he also writes not in this piece I've given you that he was very careful to say the shma in Ash and then inspired it he was very careful and somebody got upset with him and said what do you mean how can hav be wrong how can anyone have a rabie wrong look in 20 says a very important important person once said to me okay after I told him the soft the pronunciation of the soft is all messed up with like we talked about that you can't say you can't elongate the someone almost got very upset with me when I said that the yemenites were right he said to me are youing for one second are you telling me the G was not kishma his whole life because he pronounced it like a how can you say such a thing and he answered him and I said to him of course he was yeah it was y because we Pas him that someone who is not careful how they say things is y so they was Y and then he says an interesting thing he says how do you know that the G re didn't say the Shar again like AI how do you know he just didn't want to change all his all his t he says can you promise me that the G didn't say it again like I say it again you can't promise me that so either he was y or or or he said it again but the the answer here on krishma seems to be the whatever you use and and that's not called that that you didn't say the words it's just called carav di maybe not that you didn't say the words however if you go over the page when it gets to the name of God everything gets much more serious and here we get the big question do you say Ad and then with n at the end or no at the end and there are people who teach theim that they should say no even though they pronounce everything else I with a they with a this they should pronounce o so let's have a look at this because it's fascinating it's not even the name of God no correct but it's how we pronoun the pronounce the name of God absolutely but that's how we pronounce it number 21 all the all the names of God which written in the Torah says the abah when it comes to the story of Abraham KES they all KES apart from this one which is not cish which is [Music] secular that word says this first view is not God's name that he's talking to the leaders of the the group of Mal okay okay the the uh the nephew of R Yeshua and also they said both of them this pair in the name of noes this is also KES now asked so who does who who which view is following the following so when the statement comes up in that is even greater than receiving the face of the we talked about this a few weeks ago remember and that abam is saying to God I'm gonna wait you please can I ask you to wait please wait for me while I deal with who is that following command meaning he's talking to God he's following this the view of this pair that said that this is the actual shame hasem and therefore theem is being used in this sense fine so how do you meant to pronounce it if the shame is KES which the Sham is KES together with all the other shamers and we need to know which shame is KES and which shame is otherwise we're not having the right cavana when we read it and when we write etc etc so most today do not differentiate between I and and I a with a and with a basically sounds the same and again is the one who is often quoted to say even if you're you have to pronounce the sameem no not n you have to pronounce it no based on what based largely on this reak and this is reak I think is very uh in many ways quite life-changing it comes here on exactly this that we just read when speaks to God and the question is he's speaking to God or is he speaking to we he's speaking to God look at what says in number 23 if you want to get into the he's not even getting into Caba here how you actually do the vows the is the most important of the list of of vows it's the first in the list of seven vows and there's a packing order it's interesting there's a packing we'll see why in a minute and the is the top of the list okay because through these through these seven vowels that's how you create the Torah that's how you say it right these are called the seven ways of pronouncing things or he talks about the these are the vows okay all the Torah is founded on them and there's a very tiny difference between a and a just this little little dot underneath but it's a makes a big difference even though it might sound to you says he's living in Spain in the 12 1300s he might say he might sound to sorry he went to live in Israel I think originally from Spain he went to live in Israel and even though it might seem to you that they are the same thing it's not the case there is a big difference between these two and he says as follows why is this important if a word has a a Kamas underneath it it stands alone it's independent it doesn't need anything else that's how it's used he's going to give an example it's not dependent on anything else when you sayon the Aron okay the the AR the theit but when it turns to Aon habitz where it's being qualified it's not the Aron but it's the Aron of something else the Aron habitz then it changes to a it changes to a so you see the the the use is very different and then he uh gives another [Music] example it's it's has a under the last under the because it stands alone but when it [Music] says so then it's a when you qualify it it goes from an to an and therefore he says last paragraph when you're saying name it can't be with a because it sounds like then God is reliant on something else that's always the the qualified version built because the says it's not depending on anything else anything which is created depends on something else but not God and therefore it has to have a and when it's it has to be that's why it's very important to get it right it's night and day it's light it's light and darkness if you mix these two things up you will not be able to escape from one of the two or you'll mess up all the which cabalistic is critical or or you'll be be speaking heresy because if you say n under God's name it's heretical you're saying God is dependent on something else got a question well that's the whole question he's saying that there is no such thing as a minhag that pronounces God's way in a name which is heretical that's not called a minhag you can have a Minag to pronounce everything else with an i with a p when it comes to God's name you're destroying God's name it can't be okay good so he's going to say that your family's pronouncing God's name wrong meaning even the spim he says should have a slight difference between the kamat and the P now let's have a look at the r r based on this by the way this is where the pressure is coming from on thei boys to change their hav to talk like asazin when it comes to God's name they can say everything else like aari but God's name they have to say no not n so look at what RAB YF has to say about this he is not going to be very happy with this and you'll see why right now and he's going to bring a very interesting proof number 24 this is in the say God's name with this what he calls a and it's very similar to a says it's true the do say God's name and it does sound I not oi the people who want to actually listen carefully but if you're if you're saying it properly you will you will differentiate very slightly between him between them will be name even though there is a tiny difference between them it's not o and I if you listen carefully you you'll hear that in someone who's careful all the and by the way there's a lot of boys in the asias he says they're being taught they're being taught to pronounce H's name in a different way they're being T to pronounce it they're being pushed into the how can they do that when the is the correct one how can you be educating our boys to change to an incorrect and it's very clear from the they pronounce things like okay not like even maybe the pronounce things in a more spy way than they do today we talked about that last week anyone who wants to make a difference they the onus is on them to prove it should be a difference he's not doing the right thing if we get to we'll see R is very clear on this there's a Mitzvah do not deviate from the Torah of your mother which is the and you are impliedly criticizing all the who didn't say it the way that you say now it has to be said even by you have to reconvert you have to convert back if you've been told to pronounce it o and he brings a proof look at the proof look the rash scpt to the bottom says look at the he brings from some say that that was one of the now you have to be ra to have at your fingertips all of the wording of all the crits all of the things that everybody misses out you know that the back small print most people missed this out R whether he said it or not he knew what it was as a mar he says this is what it [Music] says it's rhyme this is rhyming theem is meant to rhyme with the words and den so what do you think it sounds like doesn't sound like o he says I give you an even more obvious one that you know you may not know all the covits forsh but you know how does go he says Ah okay so now it's meant to rhyme how can noi rhyme with n it's not it definitely isn't noi the first time it's so he says you see from there very clearly that it has to even though it might sound very slightly different it has to basically be almost the same that you can't possibly criticize those people who say it sounding much more like I let's look at the last page we may finish with this page and I may introduce R cook to you let's look at this chba of r r herd r r Isaac Herzog the first Chief Rabbi of the Medina says in number 25 he asked this very question are you allowed to say n or do you have to say no look what he says this is a CH he says so it's in 1951 this CH okay of okay I'm not sure exactly who that is but he was asked and some people are ruining the according to your saying you they're pronouncing it the wrong way they're pronouncing with I and with o the same question they pron some people are saying with I and some people saying with and people are saying you have to pronounce it o same thing so look what he says say very clear even with to say that Ed was saying it wrong with an and You by saying you are criticizing all the they all pronounce it and actually if you listen carefully they are saying they if they know what they're doing they're saying it differently and they they I don't I don't know how to do this I don't know exactly what he means he says when they're saying with a kamat a kamat it does sound more like a but it's not exactly the same the it's slightly I don't know if it's I as opposed to I I'm not sure okay but they do that and therefore if you're you're gonna do it like you better learn to do it right says because if you're asazi you can't just do what you think it sounds like you have to do what they're actually meant to be saying and there is a very slight difference between them therefore you have to make that difference as well um and then he says oh what about the from pres he says you're never allowed to change anything you can't make these changes and I'm not sure he said it about this he says even if he did somewhat say about not changing the this doesn't apply to all people in all places reform and this is very important of course is the first Chief Rabbi of the state of Israel he says the's agenda when he said you can't change anything that was against reform the Hamburg in the 1800s they were trying to destroy Judaism they were trying to undermine Judaism but people today who pronounce this with thear accent are not trying to undermine Judaism they're just zionists okay so you know you'd expect him to say that uh but other people will say well yeah that's the whole point zionists and they are doing the same thing that the reform were doing back in the day and that's why the was so so strong about this but it doesn't apply today did he change the chief Rabbi no he didn't change when you come to my personal base Med okay you'll hear me pronounced like ashaz i d by the way in AR a few years ago and the r there Rak shap he D with ashis when he was called up to the to tah tah okay what whatever he was called up to he nevertheless I don't get upset with other people if they want to pronounce it in the Israeli way because then used to saying more of a he says and indeed when I go to theur who pronounced things with an Israeli okay what does he do and he doesn't he pronounced it Asis when I go there on the I get course they sham I change the way I pronounce what I say if you are in by the way ra said the same thing if you are called up as a Nashi in if you're called up to make a or to or to be they say when he was for he will pronounce the like pronounces the because you have to adjust says of course in my own I don't change but when minak requires then I do yes okay so that's very interesting I mean I don't know exactly what you're asking but one of the things I didn't mention is if you are going to say a br and you're going to say it in English then you have to still say Shem Hashem in Hebrew if you're in a beginner's minion and you say blessed are you you can't say well you can drop the O if you like but you bless blessed are you Lord God you can't do that you have to say blessed are you and then shame Hashem in Hebrew you can work out with whether you're going to say n or no but you can you can't just say God you can't just say Lord and you certainly can't just say Abisha or any of these things you have to say if it's going to make it the BR has to have shame hasem in Hebrew Okay bottom line I want to show you two last sources and I want to finish with this for today ruk will come back to please God when we reconvene in a couple of weeks first of all let's look at R bottom line let's draw a line under this are all Havas kosher yes or no the answer is yes they are Kosher look what he says number 26 but your tell so he says I think very clearly all the hav which are used by different communities in the Jewish people to wherever they live they are all they're all just as ker as everywhere else and somebody pointed out to me that there are Min where it says on the you know the omed you may not pray with this hav or that hav Etc now you should adjust to the of the place correct but to make count that other people are speaking incorrectly is not true and nobody can tell me that this is better than this one or this is better than that one they're all beloved and they're all clear she follows M on this why do I care if it's this or that of course he said I don't think you should change I don't think you should change you should follow and certainly the way that you not because we're not sure oh maybe is better maybe is better it's not because we're not sure that's not why you DB the way you D okay because there's a Mitzvah to stick to the way that you're parents DAV now Lisa kids DAV the way the the teacher tells them to DAV H you know I think I mentioned to you I DAV ashis in not just in terms of my sonis my daughter why because she came when she was a very small child and they put a in her hand because in the schools most of the kids so now I have one kid who and oneid who okay is that right not really my daughter should have because that's a family Minh but am I gonna drive it crazy I'm not going to drive it crazy she know you get this with Spar women a lot I had a lot of sparity students they come to me and they say look I'm I know I'm sparity but I've been brought up in an ashkanazi school and I pronounce everything ashkanazi and you have this strange business with a Moroccan student with Moroccan parents is pronouncing things as if she came from you know Lodge and and and but but now that she can't you know convert back okay all the all the uh all the havar kosha but not just that let's just finish with Source 27 the beautiful sa says the SA this is back in the Middle Ages in the 12th century 11th 12th 13th century in northern Europe if you think it's strange people who can't speak Hebrew properly and they they mess up their and their okay and they mess up their sh and yeah interesting people don't know how to pronounce and we'll see that in a minute how can these people how can they read from how can they do that when they get to this we saw this before with my my soul Longs for you they'll be saying says no don't don't be very surprised at this because God creates us and what God's interested in is where your heart is it's very interesting coming from the this God is only interested in your in what you mean in what you intend since this person doesn't know how to speak in in a highway sorry like you should [Music] speak this is you know theic kind of best stories about the kid that doesn't know how to D and he just plays the whistle or he whistles at the back this this is not the origins is not in you see this here in in the him from 400 500 years before God doesn't care he says if you make mistakes if you're trying your best because you get all sorts of who get up and they say and they say it out loud AB him and they don't know what they're saying they're messing everything up they're saying all theuk him wrong and everybody's they're messing up tell I'm telling you he says their songs their singing is accepted like this the guy who's saying yeah God is delighted with this person he says he's doing the best he can and then he finishes with a warning and there was one who was doing doing he wasn't saying he was saying that God should destroy you there was a there they stopped him from because he couldn't speak properly they came him in a Dream from heaven but if they don't put that guy back on the he will be punished because this man has to with his and because he's wants to do the best and you should allow him to do the best he can which is an amazing thing because he's definitely saying it wrong nevertheless he is beloved to Hashem says the says the okay have a wonderful couple of weeks I will see you please God three weeks from today