Why This Broadway Star Quit Acting to Fight for Jewish Pride | Jonah Platt

Who wants to be famous for having survived something awful? We are the most persecuted people ever and not we are the most resilient, defiant people ever. >> You've been to Israel, right? >> Seven times. >> That's more than a lot of my friends, by the way. They don't like us when we're too small. [music] They don't like us when we're too big. >> So, we might as well be big. >> None [music] of your business, Oshi. None of your business, Michael. It's the None of Your Business podcast hosted by Michael and Oshi. Welcome back everybody to another fantastic, amazing, wonderful, incredible episode of the None of Your Business Podcast. I'm your host Michael Greenfield. With me is co-host Ushi Schwarz. And today we have the incredible >> Do we have another word for it? >> Venerable. Should we try that one? >> Oh, that's a new one. >> I like that word. It's my good Jonah Platt. Uh, welcome to the program. First of all, thank you so much for being here all the way from California. >> That's right. Wow. >> Yeah. I was wearing a tank top two days ago. Now I'm in a winter coat. >> Well, you're loving it. It's the It is the season. >> Yeah. No, it's nice. It's a good change of pace for sure. And I run hot anyways. So, this is I feel much more relaxed. >> So, first of all, thank you to all the subscribers, our comments, our likes, even our dislikes. We're loving it. We love the feedback. We love the growth. And we appreciate everybody being involved. Our numbers are doing great. We're always on the trajectory of growth. We've been growing since the beginning. I looked back recently and I saw her first podcast had 320 views and I'm like, "Oh, it was just me and you, Oshi." H >> Yeah, >> that's actually very good for your first one. 300 out of nowhere, nothing. I mean, like, >> thank you. >> That's more than two people. >> You know what? That's 320 more people than a lot of other people get on the first time out. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I appreciate that. I really do. Uh thank you for that. So, yeah. So, thank you to everyone involved. Thank you, of course, to the Prime Source production team for uh being behind this wonderful project. We appreciate you all and uh love that you're here today. You know, we we actually solicited you through um I think social media. We were looking at >> Stephan and I and Will and I we were we were all talking about who can we get that is in our space in our world but not like directly so to speak. And like we we did we did some research and we found you and we got very excited and we had to schedule it like a couple of times to figure out you know your your schedule. Uh I have to start in saying why I'm so thankful and excited that you're here. Uh you bring an entire different element to our world in terms of yeah we're podcasters and yeah our listeners you know are Jewish and non-Jewish and you know a lot of the listeners are trying to learn about our world also because we do a lot of business with you know all different types of >> sure you know backgrounds. >> But you said something off air before a minute ago and I want to talk about that for a second. You mentioned that you were speak you were speaking at an engagement uh last night. What was that for? That's for the JDC, the Joint Distribution Committee, one of one of the world's oldest and largest Jewish organizations. And you know, this is exactly why I wanted you to bring it up because I'm I'm thinking how many of our listeners even know what that is. And I personally I'm not embarrassed to admit it, but I am embarrassed after knowing what it does to know to to admit that I I didn't know what it was. And which is why I'm so glad that you're here because you're out there in the world. And I feel like as an Orthodox Jew, I don't get to see as someone that's, you know, uh, I guess a little bit more closed in. You know, my box is a little bit it's pretty big, believe me. Um, but there's certain things that I don't see. And when you're talking about speaking out of JDC and you're talking about what they do, just first of all, if you don't mind telling us who they are, what they do, cuz would love to learn about them. And then I want to know what else do you know about the Jewish world that I don't know. I mean, I'm so excited. Uh, well, the JDC I I wish I was an official spokesperson and can give you the entire spiel, but really what they do is they help Jews around the world. They, you know, last night at this event, they showed a couple of different video packages of families who escaped different countries and regimes around the world over decades. Uh, that the JDC is the one that helped them get out and reestablish their lives. And they've been doing that. They were one of the biggest and only organizations doing that for Jews during the Holocaust. And and they do it now for Jews everywhere who need help. Um they help Jews, not just practically, but even just knowing that they're not alone as they're trying to save their lives and and create a new situation for their families. There is somebody that cares and that is helping them figure out the paperwork and get the funding they need and get to where they need to go to to to be safe. And they're everywhere. They're on the ground. They have programs all over the place. Uh they're really doing amazing work. >> And you spoke there. Is that what >> I did? I spoke there. Yeah. >> What did you say? >> I was interviewed. It was the the focus was on sort of multigenerational talking cuz the this was for a large donor event. This was honoring something they have called the Shift Society. And this is honoring people who over a lifetime of giving have given over a million dollars uh to JDC. And so those tend to obviously be older than my generation folks. Uh and so they wanted to know about, you know, what what inspires me to be philanthropic and the kinds of conversations they can be having with their children and grandchildren about philanthropy and just that's sort of the the general vibe. >> Yeah. Yeah. Was there a highlight that you like remember of uh something specific? >> Yeah. I Well, I can tell you the thing that seemed to resonate with people the most was thinking just the word intentionality. I think a lot of times Jews, Jewish grandparents, Jewish parents sort of take for granted that the what what should be explicit is explicit and is not being held implicitly. Um, and you have to really be intentional as a grandparent or parent of what do I want my kids or grandkids to do in this world and to think about this world. I can't just assume they're going to pick it up. I can't just assume because giving Jewishly is important to me that they're going to understand that and understand the why and understand the how. We have to really think about what we want our kids and grandkids to be doing. Figure out the outcome and then be intentional about helping them get there. And that comes through both modeling that behavior and then empowering them to take on that behavior themselves. So, it's not enough just to be a leader and a doer and never talk to your kid about it and just hope they're going to see your example and get it. You also have to say, "Here, let me help you here. How how can I give you the training wheels so that you can then be doing that on your own?" >> I guess this is a world also where Jewish is uh an identity, right? Uh you're Jewish. Uh but the concept doesn't come up that often, meaning the conversation comes up when you're talking about Israel, we have holidays, but it's not on a daily basis, I guess. And it's something that they want people to think about or >> No, not it's not about uh being Jewish. It's about this conversation. This was about being Jewish philanthropists and giving Jewishly and starting to work that muscle first just generally of, you know, getting people on between the ages of 20 and 40 to be philanthropists and and think I don't need to wait till I'm 70 to start giving back and giving money away. >> You have 10% of something. It's already there now. >> Exactly. even if it's even it's, you know, $180 a year or whatever it is. It's it's a muscle and you just have to get used to it. There's there's that there's that wall there at first where you're like, well, I need I need this money. I I'm still building my life. I'm building my family. Well, I can't give it away. But, of course, when you do the math, you know, if it's 180 bucks, it's like a couple of door dashes in your one month, you know. Uh, so you just have to get used to it. And so, that's >> Speaking of this exercise, have you done these types of events before where these larger organizations any other come to mind? >> Oh, sure. Yeah. I mean, the one I'm really looking forward to, I'm doing next week. I'm I'm speaking for Magendid Dome in Miami. Heard of them? >> Yeah. I'm actually So, I MCED their event in Los Angeles and this one in Miami, I'm going to be interviewing Ellie Sharabi, the the released hostage, which I'm really looking forward to getting to sit down with him. >> Wow. Yeah. >> What's that one question you're going to ask? >> Oh, no. I got half an hour, so I got a bunch of questions. I mean, something that I'm really interested in speaking to him about, you know, spoiler alert, but you know, I I I actually had the chance to sit down with Noah Argammani at a dinner a while ago, and what I what I was struck by with her is sort of the like desire to to disappear back into her life. Do you know what I mean? Like, who wants to be famous for having survived something awful? Like, you don't that's you don't want to walk down the street. It's not like she accomplished something great in her career or whatever. And I I really got that sense from her of like I just want to be Noah again. And so I sort of want to understand where where Ellie's at with that of, you know, now he's an author and he has to talk about this and live this and it really is his identity in a way. And I'm curious, you know, obviously he's doing a lot of good by bringing this story out, but I wonder where he's at in terms of when does he want to or does he want to sort of retreat back into his life and be forgotten and just get to be, you know, who he is? Unfortunately, I don't know if he's going to have that choice anymore. I mean, he's been put in this position. By the way, I read his book. I read Ellie's book. Phenomenal. >> Yeah. I'm in I'm in the middle of it right now prepping for Monday. >> I couldn't put it down. Yeah. >> It took me an entire Friday night to read it, but I read it cover to cover. >> Yeah. >> And what was so different about the book was I knew that this just happened yesterday, right? >> Like this literally just happened. So, I'm not reading a story of 100 years ago, you know, 200 years ago, right? I'm reading a story that I lived through in real time was following it very closely like everybody else around the world >> and then as I'm reading it like every single page I'm almost like just envisioning myself like what I was doing at that moment while this was happening while this guy is in a tunnel >> you know with it was just it was just wild it was crazy >> wild and and you're right one of the biggest challenges for these people is that they were thrust into the limelight >> against their will and here they are and they have to parade themselves around, you know, talking about it and and it's almost like we sort of need that comfort more than they themselves need it and, you know, try to make ourselves all feel better about it. >> Um, it's just it's crazy. I can't imagine what they're going through. It's got to be really difficult and I really appreciate the fact that, you know, you're, like I said, that you're here and that you're going to be doing those kind of things. I'm looking forward to it. >> I got to jump to the chat GPT says what segment of >> I'm excited. >> All right. So, um, as you're aware, you know, we have a chat GPT says what about you? Have you done this ever? No, never >> really. >> I've never been like, "Hey, Chad GBT, who is Jonah Plant?" No. [laughter] >> Okay. Uh, other people may have done it though and not maybe. Yeah, sure. I hope so. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm excited about it because I think that our audience uh uh heard of who you are and um like me, I've seen you. I've seen that you're out there. You're advocating. You're talking. You're sending a message, interviewing hostages that were in Gaza. Like, you're really out there making an impact on the world. And I'm like, who is this guy? Where's he from? How did he get here? What's his message like? What does he want for the future? >> Chat GPT says, what Jonah went from Broadway and Hollywood actor to full-on Jewish identity hype man like trading spotlights for soul lights. >> Wow, nice one, GPT. [laughter] >> I mean, you got to tell us about that. I mean, you know, you have a background of acting. I know that you have an entire family of people in the spotlight, so to speak, right? Dad, brother, sister, etc. >> I Well, I actually it's most of my family is not in the spotlight, but I do my dad and my brother are, but then I have two sisters and another brother and many, you know, cousins and in-laws and all the things. >> So, it was really just me and my my brother and my dad are >> Wow. So, what what was that like for you? I mean, what was your first Hollywood debut Broadway thing >> as an actor? Um, so my my my big Broadway thing was I was in Wicked on Broadway in in 2015 2016. I played Fiero, the the Prince. That was an unbelievable experience. Got to do about 350 performances. Um, one of one of the, you know, great accomplishments of my life, certainly. Um, movies like Hollywood, I can't really remember what my first thing was. Um, I'll tell you my first my first and only big Jewish on camera project is a is a Hanukkah film called Manora in the Middle, which uh you can watch on Hulu. I And now there's people who like every holiday season are firing up Manora in the Middle on Hulu. >> Well, Hanukkah's coming up. Good plug. Yeah, we're going to we're going to feature it. We'll we'll put the link down there. >> It's fun. It's cute. It was, you know, it's a movie that's actually was written and directed by Jew acted in by a bunch of Jews. So, it's got, you know, that nice Yiddish guy to it, which is good. [laughter] >> I love that. By the way, Wicked, I mean, that is something that's wicked. >> I mean, it was a big deal. I was It was incredible. The the the fans of that show are unbelievable. They come back again and again and again. And that show means so much to so many people. And the the company actually, like, you know, the people that run that show on a day-to-day basis are are fantastic. It's like a great just organization to be a part of and the show itself is such quality. It's it's always hit or miss as an actor. It's like you have no control if the material's great or not. But to be in a show that is fantastic, run by the top professionals, full of top talent and beloved by so many, it was just, you know, total dream. >> That's unbelievable. So, when you found out that you got the gig, so to speak. I'm Take me there. >> Oh my gosh. I I I was in a a restaurant that no longer exists sadly that my now wife, who at the time was my girlfriend, uh we frequented all the time. It was called Cabbage Patch and they made delicious salmon bowls, you know, RIP. Um and we were having lunch there and I remember getting the call from my agent and I think I like ran into the bathroom so I could like hear it. They had like a a single person bathroom and and I came out and was like, I got it. And and it was incredible. I mean, I felt really good about it. They they had asked me to audition for the tour before, but never for the Broadway company. Uh, but I had just gotten the opportunity to do a musical called Hair, uh, from, you know, 19, it takes, well, it takes place in 1969 or is that when it came out? I can't remember. Um, but I did at the Hollywood Bowl in LA, which is a a huge historic venue, 18,000 people. They do a musical every summer. and I had been a principal role and I gotten great reviews and a lot of people around, you know, in Hollywood had seen me in the thing and so that's when I finally got the opportunity to audition for Broadway. So I felt like the momentum was there and I got the call. It was amazing and we were going to move to New York and you know before we did I proposed to my then girlfriend so that she would come with me and uh the rest is history. >> Wow. That that is amazing. There's so much I want to talk about with what you just said, but I I also want to continue at the same time. So, I'm going to >> remember what I want to talk about and get back to it in a minute, but I really want to get the audience to get to know you as well as myself because this was just handed to me >> uh uh by Stephan a minute ago. Uh you launched Being Jewish with Jonah Platt almost like a mic drop moment. No more dancing around controversy, just honest conversations about what it means to be Jewish. What happened? Where did this idea come from? What is going on? you're blowing up as far as your podcast is concerned. And >> it's amazing. I mean, people ask me all the time, why podcast? >> Look around. This is this is what you need to do it in order to be out there from a marketing brand perspective. And if you could do it, right, and you have a good message and people enjoy listening, right? Yeah. >> And I I think that you've hit the nail on the head and you're slamming it out of the park. So, >> Oh, thanks. I'm trying. You know, it's funny they call it a mic drop moment. I'm like, well, it's really a mic picking up moment. Um, I I really started it in the in the wake of October 7th. I was starring in a play at the Geffin Playhouse in LA, which is a a great theater that I actually had always wanted to perform at. I grew up like a mile away from it. And I found that all day long, when you're in a show, you're when the show is running, your days are free. You just have to show up at the theater at night. So it happened October 7th was a Saturday and I we were literally running the show. So I would be on my phone or computer just glued all day long making videos doing Q&As's trying to help cut through the noise and help people understand things online which is sort of the space I'd already carved out for myself as a Jewish advocate online. And then I'd go do the show at night and that turned into weeks and months of that and the show ended and I still was like only wanting to spend all my time engaging in in this work. And couple months into that, like February of 2024, I was I was like, "All right, I I don't want to I want to stop being sort of reactive and putting out the fires and just being in this moment and sort of get back to what my Jewish advocacy mission always has been, which is about trying to uh empower people to lean into their Jewish identity and to celebrate Jewish identity." And I thought a podcast would be the best way to do that. I it actually I had a long list of things I wanted to accomplish with the pod. One was that for myself just to like get back into doing my version of what Jewish advocacy looks like. Everybody has their lane and their thesis and I wanted to do mine. Um I thought a podcast would be a great format for expanding on the stuff I was already doing online where I wouldn't have to spend all day sort of creating an off-the cuff video. instead I could, you know, write a monologue and record that and interview somebody and like have a thing. I wanted to create a space for notable guests to feel safe and to go deep about their Jewish identity. That's always sort of been intrinsic to what I want to do with the show. I have a really awesome network of relationships that I've built over my life and career that I've never really tapped into for anything. And I thought, okay, now I'm going to tap into it. And and I just knew that hearing from people who care about being Jewish, but who you don't usually get to hear from about how much they care about being Jewish, would be really powerful for people and and powerful from the for the audience and for the guests themselves who, for example, when I have, you know, a big movie star on, >> Jason Alexander, >> like I'm going to have a Jason Alexander on, like when he's doing, you know, press event or something, they're not asking him, "What does it feel like since October 7th for you?" They're like, "Tell us about your latest project." So, and I and I know that just like you and me, like for the people that I have on, their Jewishness is very important to them, and they are desperate for a a venue to speak about it honestly and safely and know that they're I'm not going to like catch them in something. I'm not there to do anything but let them share their truth. Uh, and I also wanted to really showcase the diversity of Jewish belonging and experience and connection. So my show is super diverse from an observance standpoint, from a professional standpoint, from an ethnic standpoint. I try to really show non-Jews and Jews how different being Jewish can look and feel and how amazing that is. And so that's what the show's all about. >> Wow, that's amazing. I mean, it goes on to talk about the successes of your podcast. I didn't even know there were awards that could be given out for podcasts. I >> Oh, hey, you got to get in there. I'm like, "Wow, is she we have we have you know >> there's a lot of them." I mean, it's a little bit of a racket because you you know, you have to pay to be uh >> to be like included as an entry. So, they're they're making they're making some money, but then, you know, it's nice. It's a nice accolade. >> You have award an award or two, though, right? >> I have a couple awards. Yeah. Yeah. I I got a I have a W3 award for best host. I have a Religious Communicators Council award for best audio video program. I have a Webby honore for best independent podcast. And we'll see what 2025 brings. That was from season 1. We'll see. We'll see. >> You have to teach us a little about this. How do we apply? You know, like what do we >> online Webbies and you'll let me know at the end of this podcast if you think we should apply or not. >> Well, awards aren't something uh this family here is lacking. I mean, his father, right, Mark Platt, he has Tony awards, a Grammy award, right? All >> he's got I can't keep track. He's got a bunch of stuff. Yeah, he's certainly got a he's got a lot of nominations and a and a bunch of wins and >> Yeah. >> Well, thank you for bringing that up. I'm curious about your family and I want to take a little bit of a deep dive into that if if that's okay. >> Yeah. Just like your history growing up, you know, we know you're from LA and all. Obviously, your family is, you know, pretty popular in in a lot of different ways. That was probably, you know, good parts, bad parts of growing up in that environment, but just walk us through like, you know, some of the interesting points of your life as you're growing up that, you know, brought you here. >> Oh, sure. So, I think what really like the best way to sort of characterize my family, I think people people hear LA, they hear Hollywood, they see my dad's success and they're like, "Oh, you had this Hollywood upbringing." It's actually not the case at all. So, my dad's from Baltimore. My mom is from Pikesville. Nice. >> My mom is from Witchah, Kansas. And they're just like really down to earth, very unassuming, very salt of the earth kind of people. And I'm the first plat born in Los Angeles. So, >> November 17th, 1986. >> Wa. Okay, we're getting freaky here. >> A little creepy, right? >> I know that because I'm November 5th, 1986. >> So, we're like two weeks apart. >> Are you a Scorpio or do you >> I am a Scorpio all the way, my man. All right. >> All the way. Yeah. >> And I despise anybody that's not a Scorpio. So, >> I wouldn't go that far. >> That's very Scorpio. >> It is for sure. [laughter] >> Um, so that you know when I And also people don't realize like my dad didn't produce his first film until I was in high school. So, my childhood was very normal. What was he doing? >> He was a studio executive. >> So he he would, you know, go to the office every day. So he would wake up in the morning, he'd go to the office, he put, you know, in those days, you know, he had a briefcase, he put on a suit. Now he doesn't you get to wear a t-shirt and jeans, but, you know, back then he was doing his thing and then I'd, you know, wait to hear the keys jangling in the door at, you know, around dinner time and he would come home. The the the perk was every so often I got to go to like a Disney movie premiere, which was awesome. So, like I was at the Aladdin premiere and the Lion King premiere, but when you're a kid, you don't, you know, that was just like a cool fun thing to do. I didn't really think much of. And I got to go to a couple film sets, which again is cool, but it's like if your dad is a plumber and he brings you on a job, you're like, "Oh, cool. That's what dad does." It's like there was nothing. They never made it like that we're we're anything because of it. Just like this is what dad does and this would be fun for you to see. >> Was he doing financially well at this? >> Oh, yeah. I mean, he was he was, you know, very well regarded. He he ran a couple of different studios. He was head of Tristar and head of um uh Universal and Orion. >> You were growing up middle class plus. >> Yeah, for sure. Um Jewish day school, Jewish sleepaway camp. Uh I went to Camp Verma in California that my mother had also gone to with all of her cousins. I got to go with my siblings and my cousins. That was a super formative part of my upbringing and why my cousins and I are all still so close to this day as adults, which is a beautiful thing. After this, I'm actually going to lunch with one of my cousins in the city. Uh, shout out to Will >> of of camps in general. Of course, >> tremendous bonding experience. >> Tremendous bonding experience. And, you know, as the data proves, actually one of the number one indicators of having a strong Jewish identity as an adult is if you've gone to Jewish summer camp and been through that immersive experience of being, [snorts] you know, full Jew from sun up to sun down for a month at a time. >> Yeah. >> Um, >> boy camps is a very Jewish thing. Like every Orthodox Jewish kid at some point in their life went to sleepway camp. I don't know like in the non-Jewish world how common it is for kids to go to sleepway camp. >> Very >> it's very common. >> Yeah, there still are. I mean not as common like so how do I So yes, it's common but like the ratio for the Jews is much higher. >> Yeah. Yeah. Like 90% of Jews, right? Yeah. All the Jews are going to summer camp at some point, you know. >> But there's still lots of non-Jews who go to sleepway camp and they go to you know the >> But I feel like it's more ritualistic by us. Like it's like you have to like you got like you're weird if you didn't go to sleepway camp. Like >> my my my wife converted to Judaism when we got married and at the we I brought it up on our first date. We actually just talked about I had her on my she was my last guest on my podcast and we talked about this whole story. Um the we were serious right away and I said to her on our first date we were we're actually sort of like we were connected before we even had dinner. So we sat down and I said you're really serious chick. I'm a serious guy. Like I think we both hope this is going to go all the way. If it does, would you be open to talking about converting? And like if yes, also you should know like our kids have to go to campma. Like that [laughter] that like came up all of the first >> very early on stipulations >> literally the first first date. literally the first day and she uh you know she really appreciated that actually that I made it known how important those things were to me and she said >> that's very bold right you know so early talk about religion in that way and that you know you're going to be the one to convert that's that's asking a lot you know for some >> I mean I was careful I didn't say will you convert I said would you be open to talking about it if we go the distance because I didn't want you know I didn't it is a big deal and I I wouldn't I wouldn't make that ultimatum right like if you won't convert today before we've even gone three dates, you're out. But it's if you tell me today, I will never even talk about it or consider it ever, then we should stop here. And you know, to her credit, she said, "As long as I see it's actually important to you in your life, and this isn't like your grandparents saying you better marry a Jewish lady, then I'm totally open to talking about it, and we'll we'll see." >> Your values were set from a young age. That's pretty fascinating. >> You're very strongminded about your Jewish identity and, you know, not breaking the chain, so to speak. >> For sure. Yeah. I mean, it's it's so much a part of who I am and and how I move through the world and and my day-to-day, you know, be being Jewish is a is a way of life. It's it's you you do everything Jewishly. It's not just something you pick up and put down. And very very important to me to to raise a Jewish family and impressive. Yeah, that's really >> There's a Netflix show uh that was actually came out the I think last year or two years ago called Nobody Wants This. >> Oh yeah. >> And that's the same basically story. He the rabbi wanted to started going out with the non-Jewish girl in the first on the first date. He's like, you know, >> well, I mean, he's a rabbi, so like >> now [laughter] there is a little bit of expectation that comes along with marrying a rabbi. >> That's a good show, actually. >> It's a great show. I haven't finished season two, but I loved season one and uh I spoke about I've spoken about it a lot on my podcast because there's like controversy about it, but I'm a big I'm a big supporter of it and I had one of the actresses on >> Oh, really? Which one? Who? >> Jackie Tone, who plays the like the sister-in-law. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Yeah, >> it's a good energetic show. It's It goes in a bunch of different directions. You don't know what's going to happen. >> I find that a lot of shows that I'm watching though that I, you know, I fly a lot, so I try to like, you know, download a series and >> I I never make it to the second season of anything anymore. Like I don't know why. Is >> that Well, that means they're not they're not capturing it. >> I don't know. Is there a show that that you're into like something that you you appreciate lately? I'm just curious. >> I I honestly I have zero time to watch television. I used to I used to watch so much TV and movie and everything. I had a I had a blog called the media maven. Media maven's musings and I wrote about everything and and like it was doing really well. I had a a really big blog. I mean this was in the mid200s when blogs were like a really big thing. Uh but now I I've gone from that to I literally have no time to watch any television at all. Which is why like Nobody Wants This has been out I don't know two months. The episode's only half an hour and I'm still halfway through season two. I don't even have like a half an hour here and there to watch show. I'm just I got three young kids. I'm traveling around. I'm doing the show. I'm it's it's it's busy times. >> Well, compliments to them if you're putting in that much time watching it. So, that's a good thing. >> Yeah, I'm try trying to get through that one. And then the next one I'm going to watch that I I hear is fantastic is called Long Story Short, which is an animated series from the creator of Bojack Horseman, uh, which is one of the best shows ever. >> Big fan of Bojack Horseman. >> Oh, yeah. So, Raphael Bob Watsburg, who created that, wrote a show about a Jewish family called Long Story Short. And everyone who has watched it has told me this is the best portrayal of like real Jewishness on TV. >> My son showed me this show and I loved it. >> Yeah, >> it's amazing. >> That's what So I'm looking forward to having >> I only made it also similar to you with timing wise. I made it through one episode, but it was it was fun. >> You know, you see a lot of Jewish things being infused into television and movies here and there, you know, throughout different shows that >> not enough, but it's starting. It's we're getting there. It's the it's it's starting to crank up just a little bit. I think since October 7th, the engaged Jews of Hollywood are really feeling the urgency of needing to tell our story better and and more ubiquitously. And uh I hope within the next 5 years you'll start to see a lot more of that kind of content. >> By the way, great word. Um >> which one? >> Uiquitous. >> U Michael, I don't know if you've [clears throat] been picking up on it, but this is like the seventh good word I've heard him use. >> Yeah. Yeah. you have a great there's a reason why he won the Webbby award or or the best uh communicator award something like that but I you're you're a true podcaster and it's something for us to >> I do want to tell you there are >> we know how difficult it is so you know by doing >> I rely on uh you [clears throat] there are shows I want you to know that and there are uh television programs like Netflix right there is the Netflix of Israel and there's a lot of television shows now that belong there's actually something called Kougle that came out >> yes you're talking about Izzy >> yes >> yeah my show my show's on Izzy >> no Hey. Mhm. >> Okay. So, now I'll be able to watch it because someone just told me about Google and I'm like, I got to download it. Yeah. >> And there's like two platforms that are pushing a lot of Israeli. >> I know. I know. Stream Israel or Izzy. What's the other one? >> I don't remember the name. Uh I don't know. Maybe Steph can chat GPT that for us. Uh but that's a good thing. That's like pushing. >> They're they're trying to show and it's it's for a non-Israeli audience, >> right? Yeah. Exactly. uh you know if you can watch a show like um you know Narcos and you can watch like you know the English subtitles and get entertained you can watch any show and watch subtitles and >> absolutely be entertained and also learn something from it about the culture etc which is so important take me back to when you were a kid and you realize that this is something that you want to do like at what point as your childhood like you know kids play basketball kids go to the gym kids love acting and playing like how was that journey for you as a It was not even a journey. I mean, it's like from day one. You've got videos of me at 2 years old singing My Fair Lady. Uh, my family, my parents love the performing arts. They love musical theater, especially. It's one of the things they bonded over when they met in college. Um, they were both in the performing arts. My dad directed my mom in a show. Uh, and they raised me and all my siblings on it. So, there's five of us and we all grew up singing, doing musical theater. All my siblings have amazing voices and are great musicians and uh great performers and so it was always around us and always what we did. So we were always putting on shows in the backyard and with our cousins and you know my first creative enterprise was when I was in kindergarten I wrote and choreographed an original song. I I made the whole class do it uh a tribute to my teachers and we performed it for them and they you know took a picture of it and put the lyrics in the yearbook and this whole thing. So that was when I was five or six. >> Wow. I must see that if you have >> Yeah, I I I bet [clears throat] we have the yearbook somewhere. There's a picture of us like in formation with the with the words. Um so I was always, you know, all my school projects anytime they were like you can make a diarama. You can I'd be like can I just like make a show? Can I just make a a play? and I would direct it and write it and make the program and do all that stuff. So, I've always been a creator and a maker of stuff. Wow. >> And then we all started doing these after school musical theater programs. I started when I was eight. Between 8 and 18, I did, you know, 20 musicals. And when I was in high school, I then was teaching there and teaching younger kids how to do musicals. And uh it's just always always been there. So, I always knew I was going to do something in entertainment. I never knew quite what. um my my ADHD prevented me from picking one lane and sticking to it. So I try to do 10 things at the same time. So my my career was very um a mosaic of entertainment, if you will, from 20 to now where I'm on Broadway, I'm writing for animated TV comedy, I'm uh doing improvised musicals, I'm directing plays, I'm just doing all these different creative things. >> Wow. You know, I'm sorry. I I have to get this in. I've said it on this podcast multiple times. I am just waiting for someone to sit in that chair that I could finally have like some gateway into Hollywood. Like I want to be one [laughter] step removed from Hollywood and I feel like I'm finally here. >> Let's get you there. >> I feel like the day has arrived. Okay, we're talking to someone who uh has a lot of notoriety. Your family uh your father has uh credits to some of you know biggest productions which you're talking about Wicked, right? uh Kruella and uh and some others. I'm not remembering all the names, but like 40 or 50 films over his career. >> Uh your brother is currently uh pretty active in the Hollywood scene. >> Oh, yeah. >> Um I think if I remember correctly, >> he performed at like the Grammys or the >> He's definitely performed at the Grammys, but he had >> he's also won a Grammy. >> He had like a solo act. Like it was just him on stage and he was like big like his family. like you you guys are a big deal and I'm just I I guess I'm very shallow. So like for me I'm like envisioning myself having your life and growing up the way you know the way you did and here you are talking about you know all your work that you're doing on behalf of you know Jewish people and promoting you know self Jewish identity being Jewish pride and all that like why are you not you know trying to go meet Brad Pitt tomorrow? Why are you not more saturated? Like you're taking almost like a different a different journey than your brother, right? And and you're like doing your own thing and I'm impressed by it, but a part of me almost feels like you're missing an opportunity. Like, you know, not everybody gets this chance and you're already halfway there. Like you have a lot of accomplishments under your belt. Like you could just get started. Like there's a whole world of Hollywood that's waiting for you and you're squandering it. And I'm like I'm upset. I'm like what what are you? But like [laughter] I have to respect I have to respect you know where your passions are and what you're doing and it seems like I heard a little bit of the answer after October 7th. You had like a little bit of an awakening and you know you became more passionate about it. But tell me what am I what am I missing? Like tell tell us about the real Jonah that's driving you to do what you're doing today. >> Uh I'll say I'll answer that in a couple ways. One is you know my mom if my dad is the you know entertainment part of my personality. My mom is the Jewish leadership part. Although, you know, that's also no shade on my dad who has done a lot Jewishly as well. But my mom, you know, she's the most recent past president of Jewish Federations of North America or chairwoman, I should say. Um, and has been an incredible Jewish communal leader uh for her entire life. So, she's she's been modeling sort of that path. And I've, you know, funny enough, sort of found myself in in the middle of both my my mom and my dad. Um, so that's always was as much a part of my upbringing as the Hollywood piece was the mom's going to, you know, run this Federation event and they're having an event in the backyard for this Jewish cause and we're doing this and that. So, they were equally a part of of how I was raised. Um, and look, even the way you're talking about it, like you could go meet Brad Pitt or I'm like, who cares? It's like what what what I'm doing now is so much more important and certainly more fulfilling for me. And anybody who's pursuing a career in Hollywood of any kind, let's be honest, for the most part, it's a selfish pursuit. And I don't say that in a judgmental way. It's just a fact of the matter. You're you're not getting into acting because you want to heal the world. you're getting into acting because you love doing it and it's something that you want to do and you have you feel you have a gift and you want to share that gift or or you or you want the glamour or whatever it is you want whatever why you're whatever reason you're there it's for you and what I'm doing now is is not so much for me it's for for a service I'm hoping to provide for people and the the impact that it can have on people and is having is so much more meaningful and fulfilling and gratifying for me than applause, you know. Um, and and also to be fair, you know, Hollywood is really brutal and I I worked really hard at it for a long time and I had some great achievements, but there's no guarantees. And I could work just as hard as I had been working for another 20 years and maybe nothing would change and maybe I'd get some big breakout role or maybe I wouldn't. And that would just be, you know, it's it's a rat race and you're just stuck on that wheel and it's a grind and it's it is mentally so challenging and taxing. You basically spend 99% of your time hoping someone will give you the opportunity to do the work that you want to be doing and 1% of the time actually getting to do the work. >> And it's it's really difficult. And it it it this this pivot that I made sort of came at a time where naturally I was sort of already feeling like I maybe wanted to get off that hamster wheel. And then I found I didn't even have to think about it. It wasn't even really a choice. This happened. I got pulled in this other direction and it was like, well, should I go back to the hamster wheel or should I stay on this new path I'm on? I was like, of course I'm going to stay on this path that I'm on. It's so much more impactful. and meaningful. I, you know, and funny enough, for sure, this is not why I do it, but like I'm I'm way more, you know, quote unquote, famous now for doing what I'm doing now than I was as a in in Hollywood. Uh, I I like to say I'm a J-list celebrity. Um, [laughter] >> so, you know, yeah, you know, people be like, "Oh, you're famous." I'm like, "I'm so not famous, but like maybe in your synagogue I'm famous, right?" you know, >> and the Orthodox crew and your family, are they supportive of this? Like, you know, >> they they couldn't be prouder. I mean, it's it's it's it's so nice like, and I'm so much more proud of myself, like, you know, certainly I love being on stage and performing and getting that that pride from my folks. But, you know, when I'm able to forward them an email from somebody who says, you know, your show has has done XYZ for me or I've made this change in my life because of your show or, you know, I'm now able to have this conversation because of your show, whatever. And I I share that with my parents, you know, they're just bursting with pride and and my wife is so supportive. I mean, the fact that I'm here right now, she she she understands the work and and supports it, and I'm on the road a lot, and she's holding it down at home, but she's she's the first one to be like, "No, you got to go do that." >> Wow. Wow. >> Amazing. You know, his uh Mark, his father, uh just recently had an award. I don't know him personally, but for the production team for La La Land, was a big Hollywood movie, right? Was that your father? >> Yeah. I mean, that wasn't so recently, but >> he was on stage. was taking a picture with everybody. So, he was definitely a part of that. >> This was Oh, no. No, he produced it. No, we just said recently. I was like, that's >> four years ago. Five years ago. >> So, something like that. Yeah. Yeah. He's the one who who won the Oscar for like 40 seconds and then they took it away. >> Yes. That's what I was getting at. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Do you know the story? >> I You got to You have to say your version. >> I was going to tell it briefly because it's it's very painful for our family. >> Oh, really? >> Oh, yeah. My dad, they they the God love them. They uh Who was it? It was Fay Dunaway and um Warren Batty. >> Warren Batty. There you go. >> And they read the wrong film title for the winner of best picture. They they it they I guess they were holding the thing that had the nominees in it instead of who the winner was. And they just we need to build this up a little bit more, Jonah. Okay. This is Hollywood's most elite night of the year. >> The Academy Awards. >> This is the Academy Awards where they're celebrating the best of the best. >> Pause for a second. Is it true that everyone in Hollywood takes it as seriously? Meaning like it's not just the outside looking. is the this is Hollywood's biggest night. >> This is prime time. Prime time. >> The biggest award of the night goes to movie of the year. The best movie of that year. So you're talking 4 hours into the night at the very end. >> Everybody's waiting for this like it's the biggest award. Like who made the best movie, right? That it's at this moment. Okay. And uh everybody with a baited breath, a big anticipation in the room, these two presenters, walk on stage, Warren Batty and Fay Dunaway to present the award. And they list all the nominees of all the movies that are in contention. And then they announce the winner >> and they announce it very clearly for the world to hear. La La Land is movie of the year and everybody from the La La Land production team comes on stage and they're starting to you know uh celebrate getting and all of a sudden the I believe it was Jimmy Kimmel I think was >> no it was one of the one of the producers of La La Land somebody like I don't know if it was a stage like somebody from the production team goes on talks to the producer uh and the producers like stop stop we didn't win basically no this there's been a mistake like Moonlight won and this was already after like my dad was already holding an Academy Award and like giving his acceptance speech and uh they gave it to Moonlight and >> that's crazy but how do they read the wrong like how does that happen? I mean right there >> I think because they're they they didn't have the right card. I don't think she opened >> the winner envelope. I think she was still holding the nominee envelope and I think the first one on there was just La La Land and she just read it >> and she was just, you know, old and where where were you at home with my siblings watching on TV celebrating >> and then >> Have you ever been to any of these award shows? >> I've been to the Grammys and I've been to the MTV Movie Awards. I've been to the Tony's. I think that's it. >> I don't think that's it. Just those three. >> Just those three. >> Just those three. Do you understand that you're living the life of millions of people that are like just with with envy just listening to this? >> It's not all that, man. >> I could tell Jon he's downplaying a lot of this. >> Michael, he is embedded in a big part of this of this Hollywood setting. And I'm so impressed that you're just so down to earth uh that you know, you grew up in this in this life and it just didn't not only not get to your head, but you're doing good. you're actually doing something that's meaningful and something that's impactful in other people's lives and you didn't pursue this selfish dream like like you said a lot of people >> for a long time. >> Yeah. But that's not where you landed, right? It's it's about where you're going, right? >> And the work that you're doing and the podcast that you have and the guests that you're bringing on, which by the way, I wanted to tell you when you were reading on Chat GPT, I actually followed your podcast before this even came up. >> Nicely done. >> I've I've seen you and uh I've I've tuned in for, you know, some of the episodes. Um, I think it was Jason Alexander, the one that like popped up, which I think I watched pretty much the whole the whole episode. By the George Castanza on Seinfeld, one of the greatest characters of TV of all time for sure, right? One of the greatest characters just and he portrayed that role. >> I mean, he could never get away from it. He is George Castanza. I wonder if he ever had any other acting opportunities. >> Oh, for sure. He's a Tony winner. Yeah. I mean, he's Broadway. >> He He started actually on Broadway. He's been on Broadway a ton. That's his like first love is theater and he has a Tony for being on Broadway and Jerome Robbins Broadway and you know he was in Pretty Woman which is a pretty iconic film. >> Okay. >> Uh and he's gotten other opportunities for sure. >> But if you think about you know uh Jayce Alexander you think about George Castan that's his entire cultural touch point. >> What a great show. And you had him on um what how did you get him like what was your connection to? >> I know him personally. I I I know him in a couple of different ways. you know, he obviously he knows my dad and my brother through the business. So, like we weren't strangers to each other. And then we actually met very shortly after October 7th. We met for the first time. We were we were both called together in a room by uh Daniel Lubetski the >> oh the founder of the founder of Kind bars and many other things who is an unbelievable bridgeuer and is really devoting his life to try to bring bridge building to the Middle East and around the world. >> Shark on Shark Dank. Correct. Daniel Leitzky. >> But you know and as amazing as a businessman he is his real passion is you know the Jewish people and bridge building around the world. >> He always talks about his father going through the Holocaust. Yeah. Um he he talks about he's very open about it. Uh I've heard him speak about it multiple times. He gets very emotional every single time. He's so appreciative for his past and you know for the the ones that came before him >> and uh he's very humble. Uh he's just he's a great dude. >> Yeah. And he's really paying it forward. So he called together a group in LA to just sort of brainstorm about what's going on. And I was in there and Jason was in there. And so we connected just of like let's connect cuz you know we both know of each other but we've never really been in the same room. And then I actually had the opportunity to take a a an acting master class from him which I only took because it was him and I thought that'd be cool. Yeah. Um and so we got to hang out for I don't know it was like six weeks in a row and um but because we knew each other from the Jewish stuff first and from outside, you know, we had a relationship. It wasn't just the teacher student relationship. And so we were in touch and I had sort of been poking him for a little bit about doing the pod, but he was working. He was in Chicago doing a play. He was like all around and I really wanted him to be my season premiere for season 2. So poked him again and found a little window where he was in town and available and he graciously agreed to come on. >> I couldn't help but smile throughout the podcast. I just I couldn't help like he he's just everything he says he's not intending to be funny all the time, but he's just like he's just good energy, you know, and there's a lot and I didn't even know he was Jewish. >> I did not know Jason. You didn't know Jason Greenspan was Jewish. >> Well, now I know it was Greenspan. [laughter] I didn't even know his name was Greenspan. I think most people didn't know that. But I had no idea. And you actually, you know, are emboldening people, empowering people to be proud of, you know, who there's so many people that are out there that I feel like maybe are in the shadows like there, you know, till now they were almost like embarrassed to come out with a lot of things going on in the world, you know. So I I want to ask you a question. >> You come from this, you know, Michael and I, we're Orthodox, right? We grew up religious and you know we're not so sheltered. You know there's a lot of people even more orthodox than us that even way more sheltered, right? We were pretty uh open-minded. We grew up you know exposed to the world and to the cultures and to everything. >> Um but then there's that other side that people like you grew up you know not religious at all but Jewish but very Jewish right and in a way almost like more proud of your identity than than I am you know. So yeah, you have like like this staunchiness about how you're talking about and you're making a podcast, you know, to deliver that message which which is fascinating. I'm very curious. There's a lot of people like that. What are your thoughts? Like what is your perspective and like Jason Alexander and other people like that about the religious side of the Jews, right? Like I'm talking about, you know, not ultra orthodox but like the Orthodox crew like growing up like what did you think of them? Like like they're like a little weirder. they're extreme, you know, uh be candid here like Sure. I'm curious because like I I have somebody in front of me where you know I I think that you know you you you've seen a lot right so what is your perspective on that growing up and like how did that shape is that changing do you see it more now differently than you used to see it tell me a little bit about that >> so there's a spectrum you know as you as you rightly just said you know there's there's even within the Orthodox community there's a lot of different ways to be orthodox um and I grew up like it's like I grew up with no religion right I mean I grew up. I went to Jewish day school. I celebrate my family kept kosher. We celebrate every holiday. My cousins, a lot of my cousins are more observant than I am. Um, I'd say some would probably categorize themselves as modern Orthodox. Uh, so I've been exposed to a lot of different types of Jews kind of my whole life. And as as with all religions, I think the people who are the most religious, the most observant are feel extreme to me. Um, I think it's tough, you know, when it I I totally understand and respect of any religion, certainly the Jewish one, when you this is what you care about, this is what you want to adhere to, sort of this is what the meaning of life is for you and it is 2025 and you do live as a part of a fabric of a wider local countrywide global community of people. And I think it's important to recognize that and that's sort of, you know, the you don't exist in a vacuum. Um, but I've always found, you know, I've only had good experiences for the most part with with more observant folks. Um, yeah, I mean, it it's I I I certainly see for some people there's there's definitely an an intimidation factor. There is uh there's definitely I I've I have not myself been on the receiving end, but there's definitely um a a shared experience of being on the receiving end of judgment and you don't count as Jewish, you're not Jewish enough. Uh um you know, condescension from more observant people. I get it on my comments a lot, especially I'd say on like YouTube from like more Orthodox Jews who will pop on and say like, you know, try to correct or diminish or say, "Well, that that person's not a real Jew or whatever." Um, which I find really frustrating. And you know, I I think because the Orthodox community, especially the more observant Orthodox, is so insular, they really are, for lack of a better word, ignorant to sort of how the world is working around them. Uh, and that we're in a moment where we as Jews really need to be united. And, you know, they're they're the the world is not so happy with us right now. And if there if we are fragmented internally, it's going to be a lot harder to deal with what we're dealing with externally. And unfortunately, some parts of the community are just totally oblivious to that and living their own focused lives, which again, I understand and I respect where that comes from. But you don't live in a vacuum. You're not on your own planet. You're on a planet with a bunch of other people. If you want to go live on a, you know, deserted island and make your own thing there, go right ahead, please. But as [clears throat] long as you're going to be part of this world, like you got to look outside the window. >> Yeah, for sure. You know, um Adolf Hitler was the least anti-semitic person. He taught us one thing, which is he hates all Jews. They're all the same. Didn't matter how religious you were, how irreligious you were. Like he consider and that's like one thing, you know, to learn that a self-hating Jew is, you know, one of the worst forms of of anti-semitism. And I'm guilty of this sometimes. Like I look at an ultraorththodox person and I sort of like judge them in a way of like they're embarrassing me a little bit. Like I don't want the world to think like this is what you know Jewish people are are like. But meanwhile there is a part of me that respects them because I feel like they're you know connected more to the roots through the traditions you know and they're you know they're much more in tune on a dayto-day about being Jewish where I live a life also materialism as well. I'm not just focused on my dream. I got to get better at it. I got work to do. We got to grow. So, a part of me like respects it and a part of me like almost I want to distance myself from it a little bit. I think a lot of people and that's what I'm wondering about on the non-religious side. Someone like me, I'm sure there's an element where they sort of want to distance themselves from it and say, "Nah, that's not what real Jews are like." Or or am I am I, you know, >> No, I I think you're absolutely right. especially, you know, uh, sort of like the more patriarchal elements of of the ultraorththodox. Certainly more, uh, contemporary Jews want to distance themselves from that. Um, you know, like, you know, you're telling me women have to wear a wig, women can't sing in public, like all of that stuff feels very archaic and patriarchal and please don't judge me by, you know, that extreme position. I think it's it's it's really just about extreme and moderation, right? Like as with anything, I I and most people on Earth generally like try to live somewhere more in the middle where it's a little of this, a little of that, not too much of this, not too much of that. And anytime you go to any extreme of anything, it's extreme. That's why we call it extreme. And it's it can be alienating and it can be, you know, something you don't you you nobody wants to be judged by the most extreme element of whatever their community is. >> Yeah. Um, so I I think there's definitely >> we need to be united at the end of the day. We really need to be united because if we stand at Chammy, the world right now >> isn't exactly elevating Jewish people, you know, in a high pedestal, you know, and the the outlook, the perception isn't great. So, we have to bond together and uh we, you know, we're all representing a common cause at the end of the day. And if we can reach a point, Michael, where we can have all respect for each other, um, and just, you know, really protect each other, um, I think we'll be so much better off. And once we become fragmented and once, you know, you live in America and you live in Israel, you live in Australia and we happen to all be Jewish and that's about the only commonality we have, we've lost something. We've lost something. And it's so nice to see voices, you know, of a demographic that you're representing. um and a podcast like you know what we have you know and all of us you know collaborating and colliding we need more of that >> yeah for sure we have to we have to talk to each other a lot more across the spectrum of observance and I think it's important also to to think about you know what does it mean to be quote like more Jewish like who says necessarily that the more laws you follow the makes you more Jewish than the more mitzvote you might do. You know, like why is the person who keeps kosher the strictest but is a jerk, why is that person more Jewish than somebody who doesn't keep kosher but is doing acts of loving kindness all over the world all the time? Right? Like to me, it's the values of Judaism and and the putting those values into action that are much more important to me and much more how I like to think about myself as a Jew than how many of these rules am I following today? >> Can you clarify something for me? Because you're coming from that world. So, you can help me better understand it or say the right word. >> The word religion and the word observance. I've heard you say more observant. I've heard him say more religion. I'm curious where that collides. It's like what what's your when someone says religious as a Jew, what does that mean? When someone says observant, like what's what's the right frame of of putting it, you know, in terms of not having any negative connotation or what? >> So, like I'll say like when when when Ushi said like, well, you grew up not religious. Like to me, I'm like, well, no, that's not true. I did grow up with religion very much. So I mean I I in my Jewish day school I wrapped Phil in every morning when after my bar mitzvah and we pray every day and my camp pray three times a day and I mean like every holiday family kosher like all that stuff. So but I was am I as observant with that religion as an Orthodox person? No. They're doing more stuff than I am. Um so I guess that's that's sort of the difference. >> What's the best way to frame it? How what's the >> um I think observant is probably a better word to use. >> Yeah, like following more of the traditional things that you know used to be done and continuing that on is more observant. >> I think observant speaks to basically like if there's a list of laws that you're following, the more observant people are following more of them than the less. But you may not necessarily consider yourself less religious. I mean, like I know many reformed Jews who would probably consider themselves religious who think about being Jewish every day who are involved in Jewish organizations and raising Jewish kids and they just don't they just eat shrimp, you know? >> Yeah. My rabbi always says uhim, right? Like there's a difference between being hidic and being uh religious. Like you could be acidic like you wear the garb, you can, you know, do a lot of things that you know, but you're actually not even so religious because you're not connected to God. You're not even, you know, proud of there's a distinction between the two. And I think I I made that error when I sort of surmised you growing up not religious. I should have said not observant. I think there's a not as observant, right? >> Not as observant is a big difference. And I apologize for that because it could very well be in his household the the religious aspect of Jewish was highlighted even more than than when I grew up. And it was more embellished in your house than it was. Like there is a far cry between, you know, being religious and being Jew and being spiritual, right, than there is and being an observant. It's very nice. I'm not diminishing that. I think there's a lot to say about being traditional and keeping us have more of a chance of sustaining that long term if you're keeping it guarded, right? And you're putting, you know, measures in place that, you know, no one should, you know, fall off, you know? But there's a very big and I'm happy you >> there's also I think there needs to be more of a balance between the the gatekeeping out of the fear of losing which is important but also the opening out of a fear of losing because I think it's too much gatekeeping is having the opposite effect where you have people who are showing up and they want to come in but you're saying well if you're not meeting every criteria on my list you're not welcome here and so we're losing people who do want to be there but feel like they don't have a place or they're not good enough for how to do it. And so it's having the opposite effect. >> Yes. Yes. We had someone on our podcast a while back. I'm curious if you heard his name before. It's Yasi Pharaoh. He's uh the Tillin guy. >> Oh yes. I wpped with him like the the young guy. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We wrapped uh the last time I was in New York, he like came and met me in a coffee shop which randomly I I walked into because it had good reviews and was near me but happened to be Israeli owned. It was an Israeli coffee shop and uh and Yeli met me there and we had been there. >> No, no, no. He was like, "Where are you? I want to come around with you." >> I'm I'm I'm just It's just coming to me now. I think he's the one that gave me your number. >> Oh, there you go. That makes sense, >> right? Is that Does that make sense somehow? I think you reached out on Instagram or something, right? >> I I don't I don't know. I don't know if we got it from Yassi, but anyway. >> Yeah. >> You know, I like I like to give credit where credit is due, and I'm going to look it up in a minute, but what's what you know, when you see that happening around you, uh the putting on of tillin, right? So there I have a real one I have a favorite uh uh one of my favorite Hollywood Jews uh is uh you of course. >> Oh, thank you. >> And uh Michael Rapaort. >> Oh, sure. >> And uh he has joined recently a fill in chat with a few hundred of us that share putting on fillin every day with one another. >> What? Just like photos? >> Just photos. And he goes on, I'm talking about at least two, three times a week. and he puts his picture of him putting on fillin and he empowers all of us. I'm talking about myself included and I've sent him videos and he's sent me back and we've been sch smoozing back and forth over the past few weeks and I'm loving what he's doing. I'm curious how it looks. Is that something like we're talking about what we can do and how what else we can do to further this message and this unity. How is it looking from your side and from the people around you in terms of this objective? Like is it annoying people? Is it like oh just >> what the the fillain piece the I mean obviously I did it right so I and I have friends now who are rapping to fillin who hadn't been doing it because I think there's this desire right now especially to lean into Jewish identity. I call it on my show, I say go full Jew. Like what what's that thing that you know would feel good if you tried it, but for whatever reason you're the voice in your head is saying ah that's too Jewy or it's too weird or it's too assimilated or unassimilated, it's too othery, but when you do it, it feels good. I I've been thinking about so I just I had lost my fillin somewhere over the years and I I was doing a speaking event in Long Island and the woman who interviewed me there named Mo uh Moji uh Porati uh great great lady I told her I'd lost my Tillin she's like I'm buying you fillin so she bought me to fillin before I left and then I just got a beautiful new fillin bag so now I have it and then I was talking to my buddy from elementary school who is now a dad we're both dads at the day school where our kids go where we both went and he's like I've started wrapping fill in every morning. It's just like a meditation. It's a connection. It's a thing. So, I've been thinking about it and I I want to do it, but again, it's like I don't have time to watch TV. It's like I I don't have time to wrap the fill in, but I know it takes like 2 minutes. So, like maybe I'll get there. Um, but I think people are just looking for more ways to feel more Jewish to to exhibit their Jewish Jewishness more. Uh, I think it's not annoying. I think people are as you I mean, even you're even being inspired by it. I think people are being inspired by it. I think people are waking up to the fact that a it Judaism gives you so much meaning in life. I mean like what a way to sanctify five minutes in your morning and then and b that like we need to be taking up space publicly as Jews and being really visible as Jews because you know it doesn't work being quiet and having your head down that doesn't make things better for us. being visible and having dignity and self-respect that will work for us. And uh and people are just looking to get more in tune with what's spiritual and meaningful about Judaism for them. >> Absolutely. You know, he was on uh he he wra he strapped someone or wrapped someone that he got Michael or Yosi. >> Yossi that um that people were telling him he's not Jewish and like and I was thinking >> and Logan Paul. He did Logan Paul. >> Oh, right. That that boxer >> and everybody's like what are you doing? Like he's not really Jewish. Like you you'll rap anybody apparently. like what's what's the deal? >> But uh and we asked him that question. We had him on our podcast. Y we asked him like why did you rap Logan Bulock what you trying to get out of that? >> He's like just in case for that little slight chance he's Jewish it's worth to rap him. >> Okay I hear you know he's making a decent point but >> I don't know [clears throat] I found the whole thing to be a little excessive. Like I think so I don't I love it to me if you have an inkling of Judaism put on the fillin get connected. Let's say even if you didn't have any like think about like uh like yoga like yoga is a Hindi practice right but it has so much to offer everybody uh and so if by wrapping fill in it it brings you some sort of spirituality or connection or or brings you to a higher place I think that's a that's a good thing >> that's such a pure thought but see in a lot of ways he's more religious than me at the end of the day and that's why I feel bad how I phrased it originally because it really is not it's I never >> he's a better Jew than I am. >> I never do I never do this. >> There's no such thing as a better Jew or not better Jew, >> isn't there though? Isn't there >> I mean only in terms of the the quality of human being you are. I mean I think >> that's that's the moral compass of just a person. I don't know that's exclusive to just Judaism and any religion like you have to have certain you know basics you know of of of living you know and your code of conduct. But I'm saying as far as like the Jewish traditions and laws and customs, right? Like we've been taught at least that that's sort of what makes someone better and better Jew, you know, and you're coming from a different world and different perspective. And I love it. >> I I don't think there's I I hate the phrase like bad Jew or better Jew or anything like that. I think that's what I love about Judaism is that it it looks and feels so different for so many people. And that's what my show is all about. And I think wherever you are engaging is is good enough. There's always room for growth. Um you can be a more engaged Jew, but I don't think being more or less engaged makes you better or worse. >> Well put, by the way. I really like the way you just said that. Thank you. And that's why I was going to say a minute ago that and I usually never do this. It's okay, Oshi. You didn't make any major mistake. And the reason why I'm saying that is because I think it's a common thing that us more observant or orthodox Jews say a lot. >> Less religious. dress religious and observe it. I think that we need to be a little bit more sensitive to it. That's all I'm saying. >> I I think also something that you're sort of pointing to, if I may, is and this is what you see a lot in Israel actually is because you you were raised in a more orthodox, observant environment, you're able to take it more for granted, which you know is why I think so many Israelis end up being it's sort of the opposite. They end up being so secular because like they don't have to think about their Judaism because it's all around them. So they don't actually have to be intentional with it or or think deeply about it because it's, you know, that that that shop's going to be closed on Shabbat whether I keep Shabbat or not. Um, and that's sort of the same, I think, for more observant communities. You don't have to really contend so much with your Jewish identity and and be super intentional with it because it it's kind of a given. You get to take it for granted growing up. Um, so you know where whereas we have to sort of, you know, less observant, you have to really be intentional and think about more how do I want to engage? What am I going to what kind of Jewish life am I going to build for myself? Cuz if I don't do it myself, the the scaffolding isn't necessarily all. >> I do just have to interject and I checked and uh Yasi did ask you directly and you said yes, you would love it and we connected through email on there and I know that Stephan also uh connected with you on Instagram. So I really appreciate that and I appreciate you Yasi. When we had Yasi on our podcast, we actually joked with him afterwards like, "Let's just follow everyone you're strapping >> and just get them on the podcast." >> There you go. >> You know, so he gave me Gary Vee's number and he's like, "Let's get them together." >> But that didn't have Gary Vee. >> I don't think he did him yet or I don't know. I think he did actually. >> Would you ever have on your podcast somebody like Anna Kasparian or Dave Smith or because a lot of times I see them debating, you know, people and I'm not happy. The way >> Sorry. Uh who are these people? Oh, these are just very radical um um anti-Israel, but ultimately anti-Jewish. Really? >> That's so interesting to me that like you don't know who Dave Smith and Anakasparian are. So So they are hugely hugely well-known pundits, talking heads who are extremely anti-Israel, and have enormous audiences and followings and are on every talk show and every >> I have to be honest with you, just so you know, 5 years ago, I limited social media for my life. So though I have a podcast, I don't have personally social media. So I don't have YouTube. >> God bless you. I get it. I'm I'm sure your quality of life is higher. >> Oh my god. Tremendously. And it's it's >> if it wasn't like a career thing for me, I would be I would be as off of it as much as humanly possible. >> Honestly, thank God I have Stefan, >> right? >> You know, cuz he's on it and he's responding and he's, you know, engaging with the social media part of it. >> And by the way, my life is terrible now. [laughter] >> But I I mean it's it creates a good point. So, like on the one hand, should you know who those people are? Maybe. But on the other hand, do you really need to know who they are? Maybe not. >> It's important to know, I think, sort of generally what's going on. That like there are talking heads that are out there, >> you know, spreading liels about Jews and knowing that that's important, but knowing who these individuals are, it has no material impact on your life. >> We have to be aware of this because they're out there on the world stage and and have you say what you question? No, no, I wouldn't bring them on for for two reasons. One is my show is about >> loving Judaism, right? And Dave Smith is only Jewish in as much as he's allowed to use it to help him, you know, talk trash about Israel. Uh he's never on there talking about how much he loves being Jewish or any or, you know, what his, you know, religious connections are or anything like that. It's just about how wrong Israel is. And I don't know if Annis Kasparian's Jewish at all. I don't think she is. >> No, she's not. She's um she's um um Algerian, something like that. >> Armenian. >> Armenian. She's Armenian. Yes. >> So probably Armenian Christian. Um so like I have non-Jews on but only non-Jewish allies who who have some connection to our community. So it's not that there's anything wrong with debate. In fact, it's very important. That's just what my show is for. My show is actually like the breath of air that people come to when they're getting stressed out by all the debating and the and the negativity and stuff. they can come to my show and be like, "Oh, yeah. This is why I I love being Jewish." And, "Oh, here's somebody who I didn't even maybe realize was Jewish or I didn't know was an ally talking about how great being Jewish is." >> We talk a lot about um the fear of uh publicly being Jewish in places like New York City today. >> Um we had recently uh an a magazine reporter of the White House correspondent that tells us that he's more comfortable wearing his garb, his Jewish garb in Abu Dhabi than he is in New York City. Yeah. >> And not so much, which was interesting about that discussion. It's not so much about the anti-semitism that he would feel in New York City. It's more about what would happen to someone if they acted on the anti-semitism in New York. Whereas in Abu Dhabi, they would go to jail for a year, right? >> And in New York City, not even a slap on the wrist. >> Yep. >> You know, compliments to you. you don't really look that Jewish, you know, meaning in terms of you have you don't have that Jewish punim like I have, you know, uh and you have a little bit of it, but so I'm curious if you've experienced, you know, that fear or that thought, you know, um because I do think about it and it's been part of my life and a lot of our listeners life in terms of do I put on my keepa? >> Yeah, >> it's a huge discussion and since October 7th, I have to tell you, I've never removed it and I'm proud of that. To be honest with you, I used to remove it because I was like, I don't know. I'm going to I don't want to like Oshi was saying earlier, you know, I don't want to give a name to the Jews. I'm in a I'm in a place and I'm misbehaving or I'm, you know, making a lot of noise. Now I just make a little less noise and I it's more important for me to keep it on. But I'm curious in your experience and I know Hollywood has a lot of hate out there and we talk about always fighting hate with love and it's a nice sentiment but the reality is that it exists and we're hearing it and we're seeing it and actors that I grew up with and like >> I'll never forget like you know I'm listening to a Phil Collins song and like you can listen to that guy he's an anti-semite. I'm like is he really an anti-semite? I don't know. And >> but but and then you you hear Robert Dairo or people that just go out there you're like what are they saying? Who are these? Like, should I stop watching these movies? Like, what's your thoughts on that? How has that been in your life? Like, where do you feel it? You know, >> such a good question, Michael. I'm I'm so curious on your bringing up this major point. Like, Hollywood is infested with a lot of these people that for some reason, it's not even so much pro Palestine, it's almost like anti-Jew, >> and it's like they're getting more emboldened now more than ever to say things and and you know, people are being backed by it. And then it's crazy what's going on out there. and and people that we grew up with that we love and adore and like, "Oh my god, who can I listen to these days?" Like, "Why does everybody hate me? What the heck is going on over here?" >> Right? >> Great question. >> And I loved Robert Dairo growing up. Like, can do can I not watch the movies anymore? Like, and what's crazy, Hollywood is run by a lot of Jewish people. They have a lot of clout, a lot of, you know, legitimacy. >> I know it's a sensitive topic, so I'm just going to let you talk to hear your thoughts. >> So, there's a lot to unpack there. >> Yeah, please. >> So, let's where to start. So, let's I'll go backwards. Uh, Jews running Hollywood. First of all, Jews don't run Hollywood. There are Jews in Hollywood. There's also a whole lot of non-Jews in Hollywood, and they're all equally positioned. And more importantly, the majority of the Jews in Hollywood are not engaged Jews. So, they may as well not be Jews. You know, just if you're a Jew by birth who doesn't care about being Jewish and does nothing for the Jewish people, in fact, probably goes out of their way to not do things for the Jewish people, it it almost has the opposite effect. So, you know, I the the Jews that are engaged with their Judaism that are in Hollywood are all or for the most part switched on in the post October 7th world in a way they hadn't been before. I mean, you've got people, for example, a guy I had on my show, Lawrence Bender, who is an Academy Award nominated producer, produced in Glorious Bastards, Pulp Fiction, Goodwill Hunting, and just went to Israel to produce um an October 7th fictionalized series that's now on Paramount Plus uh called Red Alert. because it was important for him to do and he wanted to be a part of making that happen. So you have people like that who are like really engaged as never before. Um but that's not the majority of technically of Jews. I mean the majority of Jews in America are unaffiliated Jews. It's sort of the biggest. I think it's something like 40% are are unaffiliated. Altogether the rest of us make 60%. So the engaged Jews are bigger than the unaffiliated. But if you split it up into like unaffiliated, reform, conservative, orthodox, like the biggest single slice is unaffiliated Jews. And so that holds true for within Hollywood. Um, so that's that piece. In terms of the, you know, the Robert Dairos or the whoevers, I I'll say two things. One is I generally can separate the art from the artist. Personally, like the only person that, and this is just a me thing, like Miss Rachel is sort of the only one that I've canled. Do you guys know who Miss Rachel is? Miss Rachel. >> Yeah. Amazing. So, Miss Rachel has, you know, >> could you pull it up, Steph? Who's Miss Rachel? >> I think she's got, you know, 18 million YouTube subscribers. She's the biggest children's entertainer in the world. >> You know, her her show on Netflix was the biggest Netflix debut ever. >> I have a lot of friends that that Yeah. It's a natural babysitter for the kids. Exactly. Yeah. I've Yeah. >> You know, there she is. She's, you know, the I've seen her. She's the the the Barney of the of the generation, whatever. and is like super anti-Israel and uses her platform to literally have, you know, Hamas supporters on her show. >> Yeah. So, she's she's the only one who I've been like cuz her show is her. So, I could that's an easy one. There's no separation for me there. But like, will I still watch a Robert Dairo movie? Sure. There's there's a store called Lush. There's this chain of stores. They do like uh bath bombs and soaps and whatever. Very anti-Israel ownership, but we just went there yesterday and bought some great bath bombs and soap and stuff. You know, I still want the soap. Um, and so I'm able to separate in that way. Everybody has their own lines. That's there's no judgment there for me. That's how it is. Um, >> that makes sense. I'm going to adapt that. I like it. >> Yeah. You know, I still have a Swiss Army knife. I'm saying like >> Yeah. Like, you know, Kanye West is one where like I'm not going to put on Kanye West music on my own, but if I hear it in a restaurant, I'm not going to like walk out of the restaurant. And if it's like one of the good songs, I'll probably like be popping my head. >> Yeezys. I still have them. >> Okay. So, there you go. >> Do you know that he was just at a rabbi for asking forgiveness? you. >> Yeah, that seems so weird. I just wonder if you know about I saw that video. It seems so strange. >> That didn't do a whole lot. >> He's he's he's he's done. >> All right. So, there are times that you can separate the art with the artist and that the example I always give is Michael Jackson. It's like that guy was having sleepovers with little kids in his bed and I'll still listen to any Michael Jackson song. >> Thank you, by the way. I have a few friends that despise the fact that I listen to Michael Jackson. You know, >> I will always listen to Michael. Yeah, it's great music and I can say and the guy was a creep with little kids, you know, >> you know, they're making it in 2026 the first movie about him, Michael. >> Oh, it's it's a big uh >> they've been marketing it for like a year almost supposed to be uh you know, >> I look forward to that. >> A tell all type, you know, boy, we'll see. >> Um so yes, so there's that piece and then you know like why are all these actors like popping off about this stuff? It's it's propaganda is a very powerful tool. They have been ideologically captured just like a lot of the people who are the most quote unquote progressive and left in our society. Obviously, Hollywood is about as left as you can go as far as industries, [clears throat] all of the arts industries and they are the they are the prime target of this propaganda because all of the anti-Israel stuff is shrouded in the the the religion of today that is social justice. And you know, you've got the the apartheid and the colonizer and the supremacy and all of the the words. And these people are not educated in these topics. They're not deep thinkers about these topics. Robert Dairo is not spending six hours of his day reading Israeli newspapers and and authors and listening to podcasts. He hears some news story. He hears all his friends are saying this thing. All the the the publications he does read are saying this thing. the UN is saying this thing that must be the thing that's the narrative you know and it's just it's not deeper than that unfortunately so you've just got a lot of non-critical non-deinkers who are very easily ideologically captured and going with the group >> I I love the way you broke that down and I appreciate it one thing that I feel like you missed in terms of my my thoughts were >> where have you experienced it >> me personally only never in real life I've only felt it on social media, which to be abundantly clear is not real life. I don't a lot of people, you know, have forgotten that and they think social media is life. If I didn't open my phone, like I would not know there was anti-semitism around, right? It's like it's only in the articles that I read and in comments I see and in videos I see. Um, thank God. I mean, if I lived in Paris, it would be a different story. If I lived in Naples, it would be a different story. But in America today, in most places, you walk down the street and you and you're fine and you don't know that these things are going on. >> But I have to disagree a little bit. I think it is real on social media. I think that's the reason why it's so rampant today, the anti-semitism, cuz it's more visible in today's digital age. We're actually able to see what somebody a thousand miles away thinks about a Jewish person. Uh, and this is the casual average person just anywhere in the world. and there's an abundance of them. It's almost like a majority of them. It just seems like >> it's not it's not a majority. That's that's the that's the trap of social media is that we we um incorrectly correspond volume of videos to actual volume of humans in the world who espouse a certain point of view. Um the the algorithm is specifically built to piss you off. where [clears throat] I feel this the most. There's a I don't know if you guys are on Threads. You're not obviously. I don't know. Threads is Instagram's version of Twitter. I go on to Threads and it is it immediately pushes in my face a bunch of anti-semmites and I and I I if I didn't know better and didn't see, you know, understand the the code through the matrix, I would jump right in and start rage tweeting at these people and it would keep me on the app and the app would make more money from their advertisers because I'd be spending more time on there. But [clears throat] I understand that that's what it's doing to me. It's not that every person on threads is an anti-semite. It's just it's finding all the ones that are the anti-semmites and shoving them in my face to make me angry. Uh and it makes it feel like everyone's an anti-semite. >> Such a great point, by the way. They're creating a business out of pissing you off. I like that perspective. >> 100%. That is how that algorithm functions. That outrage is the the most likely emotional trigger to get you to engage with the app. So they they don't want to show you nuance. They don't want to show you. >> Is it crazy the money? Everything comes down to the money. It's unbelievable. >> That does for sure. I mean, >> people will do the craziest stuff. People will start wars, right? People will have people killed. People will do like things like this. >> All for money so they can another dollar in their pocket. It's just unbelievable. >> You You've been to Israel, right? >> Seven times. >> Seven times. Yes. >> Wow. That's more than a lot of my friends, by the way, that's more than eight. >> And it's not enough. I'm like I'm like jumping to get back there. [laughter] >> I can't wait to go back. I don't know. >> When was the last time you were there? I guess >> I was there October 7th, 2024. I went for the one-year anniversary. That was the last time I was there. >> Wow. >> Yeah. Which was very powerful. Um I I did a podcast episode from there and spoke all about what that experience was like being there at that time. It was incredible. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> A guest. >> I Yes. I interviewed a woman named Fur Hassan who was the former deputy mayor of Jerusalem. >> Oh wow. >> Yeah. and is a is a an awesome sort of uh public speaker now and pundit and >> wow one of the former deputy mayors of Jerusalem is my neighbor in Jerusalem. >> That's random. >> Yeah, that's funny. When you know next time you go there, let's coordinate and we'll do some podcasting together. >> That'd be fun. >> That would be fun. You know, he just had on he was in Israel uh like four months ago and he had Jonathan Pard on. >> Jonathan Pard. >> Pard? Who's that? >> The one that was in prison for 30 years as a spy and he was released from prison. Yeah. Whose prison? Yeah. From uh from American prison. Yeah. And he >> he was an Israeli spy. He passed intelligence from within the American um >> there he is on on on the screen. >> Yeah. >> But um >> he passed national. >> I didn't know Israel was spying on America. >> That happened a long time. >> Spying on everybody. >> Yeah, that's fair. >> I mean, they need to be well positioned and prepared for >> I mean everybody everybody's spying on everybody. Let's be clear on that. >> Everybody's Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. But there there are interesting people out there. Who's Who's the one that you want to get next? What's I I'm curious about your what's in your trajectory? What's in your head? What's your guest? >> A for your guests, B for the Jewish people as a whole. >> Let's just take it for that. Yeah. >> In terms of guests, you know, I'm trying to get more of the same, but at a even higher caliber. So, like for an example, somebody I I would really love to have on is Mark Cuban. Mark Cuban, huge platform. Everybody knows him and is Jewish and has spoken about being connected to his Judaism. very little. >> Yeah. But he he it it matters to him. >> Um and I would love to give him the opportunity to talk about that and maybe make it matter to him a little bit more. Uh and to let people hear some people probably didn't even know that Mark Cuban was Jewish and hear from >> I didn't know until recently, but yeah. >> So I feel like that's very powerful. So guys like that. Um, and then in terms of for for the Jewish people, it's really I I guess the the the things I'm trying to do with my pod are what I want us to be doing on a at large as a community, and that is >> you'd like to be a part of it. What is that? >> That's so kind. Um, one is leaning more into Jewish identity. Um, so I mean, for you, Ashie, it's like thinking about really with intentionality like what kind of Jew do I want to be? and not just sort of what was handed to me that that that's already there, but really thinking about, you know, who you are as a Jew. Um, and for the less observant of us, thinking or the less engaged even, how do I get more engaged as a Jew? What gives me meaning? What can I be doing more of? And as a Jewish collective, we need to be so much more louder and and and visible and uh have much more dignity and self-respect as a Jewish community and totally eliminate the head down, hide the muzza, like don't say anything, don't rock the boat kind of mentality that, you know, history is screaming at us that that doesn't work. It just doesn't work. It doesn't make us any safer. Um, it might feel safer in the moment, but certainly it it doesn't it it doesn't uh push back against anti-Jew hate. The only way to push back is is self-respect. >> Give me some ideas. Give me some concepts as a as a listener, you know. Okay, I'm Jewish. You know, I have a muza, you know, I I I I act with respect and dignity and so on, but what can I practically do? >> Yeah. So, you have to think of everybody's answer is different. There's not like a one-izefits-all, but the the the way to think about it is, okay, what what am I passionate about within the Jewish world? That might be taking care of Holocaust survivors. It might be the environment. It might be, I don't know, it can be anything. It might be my my kids day school. Whatever it is, something you're passionate about. What is your skill set? You know, what do you do well or what do you like to do? >> And pick one little corner and and and overlap the passion with the skill set in that corner. Start with the man in the mirror, >> right? >> Sure. >> Start with the man in the mirror and everybody does a little small act of kindness and >> Yeah. Well, that that's about like changing your ways, the man in the mirror, right? >> Um but this is about it's about, you know, um here's an example. Like there's a a woman who listens to my podcast who let me know. She said, "I'm I've moved to Dallas and I've been wanting to have some sort of Jewish book club and there isn't one and I was inspired by your show, so I started one and now there's a a Dallas Jewish Mom's book club." Look at that. >> You know, exactly. It's just that's it. That's it. Like things like that. If everybody was doing something like that, we'd be we'd be slowly moving the needle. But it can't be, you know, just 5% of us doing that and 95% being I'm going to let those 5% do it. >> Yeah. And Michael, it's 100% of everybody can't do the same things, right? Everybody has different talents, different strengths. Yeah. >> We just right now have, let's say, 5% like Jonah here and others that are that are basically, you know, taking the lead, taking the reigns, and doing We need more of that. I think that's what it is. We need more people being audible. We need more people, you know, more resources thrown at this. We need to have a collection of people come together and organize organize a little bit better so we have a better PR, right? Because it is important. You're not agreeing. >> I'm I'm medium agreeing again. Like I don't think better PR is going to change things for us. I think it will help for sure. Like for sure we need better PR, but I don't think that's like the silver bullet. I don't think there's a silver bullet is what I'm trying to say. Like I think we need to be hitting this at every single possible level. We need to be hitting it from PR. We need to be hitting it in academia. We need to be hitting it in entertainment. If you're a lawyer, you need to be litigating. If you're a teacher, you need to be teaching. If you're an actor, you need to be creating. Like, everybody has to be pushing this boulder up the hill of Jewish visibility and Jewish self-respect and uh Jewish pride. >> You see that? But here here's the thing. There's going to be a lot of people that are going to disagree. There's going to be a lot of people that are going to say that that is not our place. Like we're in exile allegedly, right? That's the And uh we're not supposed to be on top of the hill. Like it almost sounds like we're trying to, you know, take over. Like we're trying to take our our our position at the world stage. And uh I I agree. I'm totally on board with you. Michael does too. >> So then let me clarify like definitely not about taking over. It's about saying I mean to me like my my model is is the black American community. They have been, you know, lynched, segregated, enslaved, redlined, and they are like the dominant culture in America right now. I mean, they they have given so much to language, music, humor, literature, uh the conscience of America because they didn't wait for America to love them before they loved themselves. I mean, they didn't ask for permission to claim their space in this country. They said, "We're claiming it, and you're going to catch up when you catch up." And Jews are the opposite. Jews are like, "Is it okay if we take up this?" >> Yes. Because in the history, they don't want us to get too out there. And as soon as we do, they come, they come for us and they knock us down. >> But they come for us anyway, right? They're coming for us now while we're like this. You know, the people listening, you know, covering ourselves up, we might as well, you know, stand. >> That's history is trying to find that medium of leave us alone, right? Leave us alone where we're not going to get too uh too big. We We're not They don't like us when we're too small. They don't like us when we're too big. So, we might as well be big is I guess is my point of view. If haters are going to hate, right? So, you have to be you. You might as well just be you anyways. >> Okay. I I love that. I like that. That that mentality. That's what he's promoting. And that's >> that's what I'm all about. And that's not even a Jewish thing. I mean, that's like a life thing. Like, especially today in today's climate, whoever you are, whatever you do, 50% of the people are going to are going to hate on you for it for whatever reason, just because there are haters out there who want to bring you down and hate on you, and you're you can't make everybody happy. So, you might as well be your authentic self. Yeah. Yeah. You know, >> and make a better lives for ourselves, you know. And >> you remember you remember when when we had Naki on and Naki said that we should, you know, get like a a Super Bowl commercial. Remember that. >> Put a Super Bowl commercial on. >> Have like somebody lighting Shabas candles, right? >> Showing what Shabas could be, >> right? >> And that's addressing the PR the PR part. >> But at the same time, it's like [clears throat] >> we we we we do need scale. I mean, I I think Hollywood definitely has a role to play in that regard of we need to be seeing humanizing, contemporary, fully three-dimensional stories that are super entertaining and happen to be about Jews and give you this this light into who Jews are as people that were were just like everybody else. We have the same works and infighting and joys and whatever >> portrayed us as victims and a lot of them. So, it's an issue like we need >> a little bit over it already like you know, okay, we get it. Look at you today. you're thriving and you're still complaining about what happened to you 100 years ago. Well, meanwhile, yeah, we did that. Like, we had to pick ourselves back up. Uh, it wasn't easy, right? But we're portrayed unfortunately in Hollywood that way. >> We 100% right. And we don't tell the story of how we got from there to there. You never see that good that we did in order to reach this point. All the involvement we had with each other, we picked each other up, you know, when we we we unified and you know, when the kind of charity that goes on amongst Jewish people and and our culture and all of this is not something people see. They're seeing the other side of it. >> People don't think of the American Jewish story as like an incredible immigrant success story. >> And it should be. It should be studied. What other nationality do you know that has been persecuted this many times, this continuously over this period of time, and still is around? forget about being here the way we're around that, you know, we're thriving in a lot of ways. We're still around. Everybody else is extinct. Every empire that ever existed, every major [snorts] nationality that ever existed, they're no longer here, yet we're still here. And uh people don't learn. They're still trying to come after us and take us down. It's a I mean, these anti-Israel, they're just one of the latest people to do what's been the oldest tale of time. It's the oldest tale of time. Nothing has changed. And I and I think a big thing that this sort of goes back to like my thesis is there are too many Jews who have internalized that story as we're the most persecuted people ever and not we are the most resilient defiant people ever. >> It's matter of how you phrase that. You see that >> it's or the most resilient because both are true at the same time but it's one side of the coin and how do you position it and that's what people hear, >> right? And we need to we need to today in 2025 be looking at ourselves as look how resilient we are. Look at the amazing things we've done. Look how we should be celebrating Jewish excellence and not let's downplay to make people who hate us comfortable. >> I am really happy that you are on our side. I am really happy that we got to know you and uh you know we have a few minutes left based on our schedule. So I just want to ask you, do you have any questions for us? >> Oh gosh. Um >> what if we were on your p podcast? What would you be asking us? >> Okay. Um, in your community, in the modern Orthodox community, is there conversation about, you know, needing to connect with the the wider conservative reform Jewish world or or or do that does that feel like a separate thing? >> Totally separate. >> That's terrible. >> Totally separate. Yeah. >> It's a shame. But in our like amongst the mainstream, no, it's not something that we're, you know, addressing talking about regularly. But there is certain organizations, you know, that is catering exactly towards this that and they're funded by, you know, a lot of people in the communities because, you know, it's a worthy cause. But no, the average person is not concerned by that at all. >> And I think that's a that's a huge misstep for our community, right? I mean, from a pure strategic numerical standpoint, there's a lot more reform and conservative Jews than there are orthodox Jews. Like massively bigger. So for all intents and purposes, like the mainstream American Jewish identity is a reform one. Like that is who the meat of Jewish America is. And so I think we are making a a huge strategic misjudgment to discredit that group or to not uh focus on that group as being central to whatever we're going to accomplish as a Jewish community. >> I want to clarify, we're not discrediting it. is not part of our daily conversation. >> But I want to explain why. It's it's almost by design in a way. Um they're very protective, you know, from the the religious standpoint of what they have and they don't want to lose it, right? If they just send out anybody just go out, you know, hey, and start spreading the word and start talking to, you know, they could easily, you know, fall into the other side. It's very it's they're susceptible to everything going on in the world. If you're living an Americanized, you know, western civilized type of lifestyle, it's very appealing. It's extremely appealing. And and there's a lot of parts in the religion that's difficult. That's it's it's it's hard, right? And uh and we that's why we fall sometimes. We got to, you know, we got to do better. But it's very hard. This is the professionals. We got to leave it to people who know what they're doing and know how to speak the lang. You know, there is, like I said, a a a lot of organizations that do do this every day. >> But I don't agree with that because I'm saying is that what I was I'm admitting to the challenge, but I'm saying the organizations need to be us. It needs to be within us to do. >> It's got to be people to people. Yeah. I mean, that's >> it is within us. There are people from our community. >> I get it. But that you're wrong. It's not your community. Okay, John, he used the word modern Orthodox. Okay, now you and Michael and let's just say even put myself in that box. We're not in the modern Orthodox world fully. Okay, >> but it's the same thing. >> But no, it's not the same thing because you have NCSY and you have a million and one organizations in the modern orthodox world. Not in our religious ultra yeshivish world that do >> do programs like that every single day. Hey, but you know, you said because I just want to stress that like it's not that in the modern Orthodox world they are doing it. >> That's what I'm saying. I'm I'm putting the modern Orthodox and orthodox like I'm not separating it that extremely. I'm just you know pretty much putting everybody above this line in the same and there is a lot of like NCSY is a great example. So I was saying that it's not like it's being disregarded or it's you know it's being it's being handled. The outreach is very important and you know we have to have that line of communication. I'm just saying the regular average yeshiva guy you know is it's not something on their radar. It's not something that >> and I think that's that's bad. And I think it's bad from both sides. I mean, and I hate that I'm even using the word sides, right? Like we are all one Jewish community just sitting on a different parts of the spectrum. >> It's a powerful question. That's why I asked you the first question. What is your perception sort of of guys like me? Like what do what do you think about >> I feel well it's like almost like sometimes a different religion which was crazy because it's not it's the same exact one. >> Totally. And I I I have been so exposed to all parts of the spectrum that I feel very comfortable in all of the spaces, right? >> So I'm able to sort of see from the middle how people on one end of the spectrum feel alienated and uncomfortable with people on the other and vice versa. And so we've got to find ways to to all come together and just talk to each other. >> It could be that that's they both sort of feel alienated from the other side. For sure. I think the timidness is that sort of who's making that first step, the first approach. Like that's, you know, >> I think I think on the on the less observant side, it's those people are going to judge me. They're alienating. They're um like they're weird. >> And on the other side, it's sort of I mean, when you were describing it, it sounded like you were talking about heroin, like I can't go try that thing. I might fall off the cliff. [laughter] Like, you know, it's going to suck me in, you know? And it's And they're like, "Dude, it's just like it's just a cheeseburger." It's like, you don't want to eat it, don't eat it. >> Exactly. Um, so I I think we just we have a lot to learn from each other and and we'll be just so much stronger together than we are siloed >> and that's why I love the question that you asked and this is a this is a podcast in of itself, you know, so literally this really is >> and a much necessary a lot of I really do I think you know it's it's within our own infrastructure. We have some holes like we have some you know some some lapses that we have to fill those those gaps and do a better job at it. I want to wish you a lot of success on this journey and uh you know you are making an impact and you're making an impact on one person. Of course it's enough >> but it's nice to see when the impact is growing and uh that's really what it's about. I've seen your grow your growth and it's uh >> it's really just an amazing uh thing to be part of that journey like you know we're we're podcasting together. >> We're doing something good in this world and we're we're living by what we're trying to do which is you know connect ourselves. That's why I really like that you're here. We're connecting ourselves. >> Me, too. Me, too. Thank you for inviting me into your space. >> Yeah. Any other questions before we ask you our final question? >> Um, no. I'm ready for it. >> Our final question is, who would you recommend would be a good guest sitting in your seat? He's hoping you say Brad Pitt. No, [laughter] I'm changing it. By the way, I'm hoping you're going to say Jerry Seinfeld. >> I'd like him on my show. He would be perfect for your show. >> Oh my god. I wish >> if I have to relinquish him to you, I think it's the right thing. I think you would do way better with him than we would. And I' I'd probably just sit in and gravel at his feet the whole time. So like it wouldn't be productive, but I think that uh he is perfect for your show. >> Yeah, I agree. >> How do Why do you not have him yet? And how do you get him? >> He's you know, he's Jerry Seinfeld. >> Yeah, but you have you have a lot of connection. I'm I'm working on it. >> Let's find that third. Do you know somebody? Jason Alexander. Last time I checked, they ran a pretty big show together for many many years. >> You can't ask that. That's that's a weird one. I got to find somebody closer to him. Uh so >> George Costanza [laughter] closer. When was the last time they were even in a room together? You know, >> they don't they don't hang out anywhere. >> Well, Jerry's in New York, Jason's in LA. And, you know, think about it. Just cuz you just you do you hang out with your best friend from high school every day? >> Jason sends uh Jerry a text. You don't think he's responding to this? >> He might respond, but not saying, "Okay, I'm going to fly out scheduling." And so, I don't know >> who's the person that you're going after now. Is there anyone specific? >> I'm going after all kinds of people all the time. I mean, I have a long list and I I try to use every friend and and avenue I have. Cubid is a big one as It's a full-time sales job. >> Yeah, for sure. For sure. And I I book all my guests myself. Uh it it it tends to work out that way. And in terms of for you guys, I would love to see you have, you know, uh a reformed Jew on your show who is really engaged and, you know, the pride of the community, but is is less observant and and see what kind of conversation you all have together. >> Anyone you have in mind? >> Could be so many people. I mean, you can have >> We spoke earlier about that the kind bar person that >> Oh, Lubetski. I don't know what his observance level is. Um, and if you I mean, if you can get Daniel Lubetski, that's like a huge get anyways. Yeah. I mean, I mean, he's a he's a major major figure. Um, >> you've hung out with him, though, haven't you? >> I have. Uh, so I I He He and I are circling each other. He's just like one of the busiest dudes on planet Earth. No, he lives in Austin, which makes it even harder. So, he's popping in and out of everywhere all the time. >> Try thinking New York for us, you know, make it easier. Um I do like well he's not reform but you know uh Rabbi Elliot Cosgrove of Park Avenue Synagogue. He's conservative but he is a major Jewish leader. He actually is in the news today for going uh being at this conference and saying you know we as an American Jewish community need to be able to speak openly and critically of Israel without you know turning on each other and ostracizing each other. Um and he he's I think he's fantastic. you guys would have a great conversation with him. >> I like your frame of mind. I I I like what you're saying. In other words, just reach out to people that you normally wouldn't think of that are Jewish. >> Yeah. That are Jewish and our leaders and are just in a different sphere. >> Way more up Michael's alley. You know, for me, I'm just trying to live day by day. I you know, I got a lot of things to work on on my own. Like I I'm not like so compelled like with like this. >> Who do you typically have on? What kind of guests? >> So, it's really all walks of life. So, I'm I'm personally enjoying what you're suggesting. He's just He wants to go back to Hollywood. Let's take him there for a minute. >> My own religious. >> Who's a Jewish person? >> I'm still trying to figure it out myself. >> Maybe who's a Jewish person. >> What about Rapaort? >> Yeah. I I don't know him well enough. We're having a conversation back and forth. >> There you go. So, a couple more to fill in photos and maybe maybe you're in. >> How about we put you a bone? Throw me a bone. Somebody, you know, in in the Hollywood market. Somebody somebody that's rubbed shoulders with, you know, uh the elites, you know, somebody like that >> that you should have on or that I know. >> Yeah. you've you've become too uh you know uh you become too righteous like you're becoming a you're like already a better person than you know me in my inner circle and and you you know and it's somebody that's on this path somebody that's really you know pursuing this and he's very passionate about this I want to know the inner workings you know how things go you know somebody wants to start out what do they do what's their first step you know you got an agent you just show up in LA you can say hi I'm here I want to be in the movies you know how does it work I want to get the the >> he wants to understand the business and growth side of financial struggles and challenges of Hollywood, so to speak. >> So, you need to get you need to get somebody on the business side. You need to get you need to get a studio exec or agent or a manager or uh or uh somebody who works in production. >> You happen to know somebody by the name of uh Mark uh that do [laughter] really. It's like that. >> Oh, no. Just he's I mean like he's he's one of the busiest dudes on planet Earth also. Yeah. I never know where he is. >> And he's [laughter] and he's in California >> and he's only been on one podcast and it's mine. Oh, nice. I got to watch that one. I didn't see. >> Oh, yeah. Actually, all that I think he actually just did another one because he was doing press for the Wicked movie. But yes, he he has been on he's been on mine. My mom has been on mine and my wife has been on mine. >> What about from the production of The Wicked? I mean, who's who's there that you would know that might be a good guess? Um maybe like in terms of uh on the performance side or on the business side, >> someone that either would be, you know, >> on the business side, you know, David Stone is is the one of the producers of Wicked the the musical. Is he sort of the day in dayout producer um Jewish guy and then there have been a lot of Jewish actors of course who have come in through that show. Um, the the the one that's top of mind for me is a woman named Alexandra Socha who converted to Judaism, married an Israeli American guy, played Glenda on on Broadway, and is, you know, super engaged and activated uh as a Jew. She's got an interesting point of view, too. >> Stephan is whispering Galadote. >> Oh, yeah. Good luck. Yeah. Uh, I've been working on her for a long time. >> I actually like that uh suggestion that you just gave, Alexandra. Yeah. It's just fun to have conversations with people that understand our culture and our, you know, background and really the integration and the society and the crossing paths and so on. So, I like all your suggestions. I might take you up on one or more of them. Great. >> Um, knowing that I think we're going to make you call right now. So, you know, we're not going to put you in that position. Uh, but we really appreciate you being here and we thank you so much for taking the time and coming out here. Thank you to all our subscribers, our listeners, to the Prime Source production team. We are sponsored by Prime Source. And if you have a healthc care facility or any facility that you're running expenses and you want to know how to magically cut your costs and elevate the level of care, contact someone from Prime Source today. Thank you again for being here. It was a pleasure. That's a wrap. That's a wrap. Thanks, guys. Appreciate it. >> Wow. Amazing. [music] >> [music]