Why Narcissists and Codependents Always Find Each Other

Okay, I can't wait to get into it. So, uh, welcome back everybody to another amazing episode of the None of Your Business Podcast. I'm your host, Michael Greenfield. We are sponsored, of course, by the Prime Source Production team. Thank you to everyone who's following and subscribing and commenting. We're loving all the action we're getting today. We have with us the struggle guru, [laughter] Rev Joe Farcus. Um, I call you Reb because uh people who I learn from, I call them Arav. >> Wow. >> And um I've listened to your podcast and I've um I've learned a lot. I've learned that uh and and this is something that I've been involved with already for a long time of being vulnerable and being transparent and you take that to the next level. >> Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you very much. I'm honored to be here and uh I'm inspired and impressed with your podcast as well. I have also a lot of questions. >> Okay. Let's talk about my podcast first then. Let's get to it. >> No, but um you know, first of all, getting into the podcast world is not easy. I mean, I I have I've sat with people here who have statistics and numbers and >> it's staggering. Just uh recognizing that I think that we've made it in the podcast world, you know, like >> I hope so. >> Right. I'm saying yeah, >> you're over uh at least 70 podcasts and I think we're over a hundred already. So uh and it's every week you know people ask me >> consistency the resilience it's not easy >> I think it's a lesson in life >> right >> right it's about anything that you do like when someone tells me like oh you know how you know someone's a vegetarian right you give them two minutes they'll tell you you know you know the old joke right so >> I always tell people if you're not doing it for two years I don't even want to hear about it like you know so uh we've almost gotten to the two-year mark you're almost gotten to the two-year mark so >> congratulations to you on everything you're doing and the you know one of the things when we started is I actually called a couple of real podcast people and I asked them like what's the key to success in doing a podcast and they said to me like anything else in business when you focus and you have you have a zeroed in lane and you know what you want to do and what you want to talk about that's a chances of bigger success and unfortunately for us when we started we didn't really have such a lane it was just me and ushie talking and >> right you were like you were a lot business. We were trying to connect it to your business and >> we weren't even sure where we were going. We knew the name none of your business is about the person, not the business and back and forth and [snorts] >> it evolved for us to have more about growing just like you know and that that's really what it was. That's really what I'm about and it's really what I'm trying to do in my life and just growing and getting people with me to share stories of growth and so on. With you it's easy. The second you turn on the channel you know you know exactly >> it's the struggle. >> Yeah. Yeah. this is my lane and I and I I know what I'm good at and I just focus I laser focus on this. I don't want to talk about sports. I don't want to talk about something else. This is my thing. This is where I shine. This is what I love and this is something that was very close to me personally. This is not something that I I went to the school of life, you know. It's not I didn't read this in books and stuff like that even though I'm a life coach also. But uh this is I have such a passion for these things that I don't feel that I'm doing a podcast. I don't feel that I'm working. It's it's just like if you can make money with this, it would be great, you know. But I'm just saying it's uh it's my passion and people love it. The feedback and you know it's it's it's it's intense. It's deep. But uh I love it. I love what I do. So I and I appreciate that because uh it's obvious by the way in watching you and just talking. You have a great radio voice by the way. >> Yeah, that's what people told me. I never knew I never knew that I have a voice. >> See Ber just told me you have a face for radio [laughter] which is really nice. Uh you listen, you're not going to be a pilot. You might as well be a podcast host. But I I'd like to know what got you so obsessed with the struggle and narcissism and words that you hear a lot and people put labels on and >> you know and just talk about and you know the word anxiety and depression and it's something that I personally have experienced. I've spoke about it a couple of times throughout the past two years and I have people around me that uh experience it with me. The the most amazing part of and I thank God every day for this is that any struggle that I go through, I always recognize the number one thing is that I feel now what other people go through and I can talk to them differently. And now it's not like saying, "Oh, you're going through a challenge. Oh, you're going to be okay. You're going to be No, no, no. You know, I don't have to say the words I've been there." Because I have been there, right? >> So, it just makes the conversation that much more meaningful. But >> for you, I'd like to break you down a little bit first. And I know you have a lot of listeners and people that get to know you through your podcast, throughout, you know, your interviews, but really this is to me an opportunity to get to know who you are and for your audience and for my audience to get to know, you know, your background. >> Where are you from? Who are your who's your family? Where are they from? >> What were the challenges growing? How did you fall in love with narcissism? Yeah. >> What made you become who you are? You know, I'd like to go through just a little bit of the background that you can give me as much as you can. Yeah. So I grew up in the Satma community. I grew up in Williamsburg. Um and I lived there till I was 13, 14 years old and then we moved to Monroe in Kir. So this is where I grew up and um pretty much I mean life was okay. Um but growing up I noticed I always had this empathy. I always felt another person. And I always uh was a searcher, a mvakish, you know, I was always looking for something. But later when I, you know, when I got older and stuff like that, I um found myself and I'm going to say it. I'm going to say that I'm going to explain the name. I found myself being a codependent. I found myself um trying to pe to please. I was a people pleaser and I was yearning and was thirsty for validation. And I was trying to do anything in the world to be recognized. It was a lack of self-esteem that was missing in me, which I didn't know. I just didn't know what the story was. I just I was I was running after my own tail. And here's the thing, what I learned that I was looking for love in all the wrong places, which means I was running after people um who weren't there for me. I wanted to prove that I can win them over and with time it was extremely hurtful and it was extremely painful but with time I learned that the problem is with me not with that person. So that means in order for me to understand codependency I had to learn what narcissism is. So the codependent is it's it's an addiction. It's nothing different than any other addiction because you have a void that you want to fill. And that narcissist, that's why this is such a poisonous dance. The narcissist has a void that they have want to fill and the codependent has a void that the codependent wants to fill. And what the codependent does runs after that and the nar it's it becomes a terrible terrible dance of breadcrumbs and and hot and cold. The game is a very very painful game. So the idea is that the codependent has to learn about self-love. You have to find yourself again. You have to build self-esteem. You have to learn that you get validation from an inner environment, not from an outer environment. And that's when you can free yourself from this. But we have to explain narcissism. We have to understand why are you triggered? and why are you attracted to this animal? So that's where I learned this term narcissism and codependency. But and the the reality is that in order to get out of this, the codependent has to become the the focus has to be on the codependent. Even though we always talk about narcissism and people love to hear about narcissism and we always uh narcissism is an interesting thing but the real work is for the codependent to find themselves and build them their own self-esteem so they don't run after the narcissist. >> If you don't mind, first of all, I consider you a mental health expert. >> Okay? And with that label that I'm giving you, I want to make sure that you know that I'm not the expert. >> Okay. >> And I I I do coaching for people and I give them guidance and you know, only from my life experience. But I want to break down these words that you're using for a second. So if I'm a person that needs to please others, >> right, >> that's automatically a codependent type of personality. Is that what you're saying? >> Right. Because what happens is that what is the reason you need to please another person? You want to get something from that. You're not >> I want to feel good from it. >> You want to feel good because but you don't feel good from a place from a healthy place. You should please yourself. You should be content and fulfilled by yourself. So you don't need make transactions. >> Got it. And we and we'll get back to that in a minute. And then narcissism. So it's thrown a lot. Could you dumb it down for me? is a narcissist. >> Yes. So I'll explain you in one word. A narcissist does not have any empathy. That is in one word. In a nutshell, it does not have any empathy for another person. >> Empathy is >> empathy is being feeling another person putting yourself in another person's shoes. It's not sympathy. It is empathy. Which means that when you say something and you don't get that you just had an effect on another person, you know, you just embarrassed that person by that statement that you were saying, that means you don't feel that other person. >> So a selfish, egotistical type of person is more. >> In fact, not only that, >> lacking empathy. >> Yeah. And not only that, that person would walk away and not think twice what just happened. >> Right. So, if you're the type of person that's trying to please someone and that person has no empathy on you or others, right? That's the fireworks. That's the challenge, >> right? But it gets even worse. It gets it gets it gets very very complicated. So, here here's the key what you have to understand. As children, we grow up and everybody is a different fabric and everybody's getting developed in a different way. So, here the codependent is missing something. There's a void that the codependent is missing which is love from the inside or whatever the case was. Everybody in a different upbringing and a school issue or parenting issue whatever the case was the narcissist went through the same thing, same pain, same type of suffering. The only difference is that the codependent decided to become to the mechanism that the codependent use uses to you know to to for the self-defense is to start pleasing and to start being a good person and show the person and try harder and harder. The narcissist decided that the pain is so severe that I'm not going to deal with this and I am going to shut down shut down my feelings completely. What does that mean? That means that I am not going to feel pain, but I'm not going to feel joy anymore either. What happens is it's a very dangerous valve to shut down. So, the narcissist now is practically dead. They're like the dead men walking. They're walking the streets. They're going through the motions. Now, a narcissist understands a narcissist also very smart. They're both very smart. This is this is a very bad shock between a narcissist and the codependent. You have to understand that not everybody is a candidate for the narcissist. A healthy person which is not a codependent, which is not a people pleaser, is not attracted to a narcissist. And the narcissist is not attracted to the codependent. I always say this that sometimes when you come into a room of 200 people and you could be in the women's section and you could be in the men's section by the end of the night the narcissist and the codependent will meet. There's a certain energy that they give each other. They pull towards each other. So the narcissist can walk through a million people and not be you know the transaction is not a transaction. There's certain people that pull to each other. So what happens is that the narcissist will move on with their life. They'll have children. They'll be married. They have a business. They do whatever they have to do because they don't want to be ostracized. In society, you can't live like this. You can't walk all over people. So they do this. You know, they go through life. But when they find the bait, they're predators. So the only since they're dead what happens is that the little power they have imagine that the little power they have is to pain other people only the people who who they can't >> the people who are susceptible to it would be the codependent >> which would be the codependent >> let me back up a quick second so I understand it and I'm fascinated by this topic in general so >> just statistics numbers wise if you can educate me as far as you know you have a group of hundred people how many of them are narcissists how many of them are codependents >> I don't know the numbers but it's a lot >> if you had to guess >> it's a lot I don't know >> it's a lot >> so you say 50% of the people who say >> I wouldn't say 50% >> would be either codependent or narcissist >> I wouldn't say 50% that's that's way over there but um everywhere you go every family can have one >> okay so in every right so that's a little bit more of an easier way of describing it. Every shul every family and every community, every business, every uh yeshiva >> and every uh yeah >> would have a you know >> one person who did not work on themselves >> because I think that the narcissist >> chose because they're petrified of the pain they chose this route. Now the good the part the good part is that the codependent there is light by the end of the tunnel with the codependent which with the narcissist there is not and I'll tell you why because they have no introspect they never have a moment that they'll sit and say you know let me take a look at my relationships till now they see people are falling away they come in and out of their lives but they move on like a train because this is what works for them. How did they uh by the way I I I for sure want to go back. You said about childhood. I need to go back to your childhood, right? I gotta find out what happened that got you sparked and into this. And >> we're we're going to have to break it down. You can use this one time throughout the podcast if you want. If there's something that I'm asking that's too uh you know personal, you could use the none of your business. But besides that, so the the codependent so I understand better now and I'm very clear the the codependent person is relying on the other person to make themselves feel good. But because they're not a narcissist, they can work on themselves. And it's not even a question that anything that comes through in life, what we started off in the podcast in the beginning saying that I was mentioning two years. >> It's work. It's definitely work. But the first step before doing the work is recognizing you need to do the work, right? So, and you're shedding light to this topic, which is someone who's a codependent would generally have the ability to do the work because they recognize it. Someone who's a narcissist doesn't. >> How does a narcissist get married? How does a narcissist narcissist have children? What what happens in their life that they're able to park that? Or is it because it's their need? >> So, if you don't mind explaining that because they look like they're living functional lives, right? >> Very much. What happens is that it happens to be that um if someone tells you that a narcissist is crazy >> or stupid, that's not true. You know, people would say, "Oh, he's a narcissist. He's crazy." He's not crazy. These people happen to be very, very sharp, very smart, very articulate and very, you know, aggressive. They are on top of their game. These people understand life very well. The only problem is that they chose this route. And what happens is with this route, if you would choose this route, knock yourself out. I don't care if you want to sit in the room and be a miserable person. You want to be dead. Good for you. The problem is they're hurting another person. In order for them to survive, they have to hurt other people. That's the problem. And codependents who are not educated, who don't understand that it's about self-love, it's about fulfillment. It's about it's about yourself fall for this. And that's why I'm here to expose this idea of narcissism and help the codependents find their freedom. >> Got it. So a narcissist without a codependent can coexist and based on what you're saying. Meaning that's what I'm asking you about a family, right? I don't choose my neighbor. I don't choose my my So what they want to do is they look at life and they want to live life. They want to have what everybody has. They want to get married. They want to have kids, but it's got to be their way. They're doing it in a frozen way. They want to make money. They know that money can get you something. They want to go on vacation. They want to whatever. They want to do what they want to do, but it's got to be their own way and with very little feeling. So, people ask me though, narcissists hate their kids. They have no feelings for their kids. Zero feelings for their kids. The only thing is if they can use the kids to feed their ego or their image whatever they need to do. What these kids these kids have a role in his life. The wife has a role in his life. The business he uses everybody in the business to get what he wants. But they live life but they don't live an authentic they don't live an authentic life. They don't have joy. You see I always say this when they make or if they go to it's the same thing. They're not overwhelmed. They're not emotional when it comes to marry their children pur. It's the same thing. They just go through life and for them you know to say you know it's comfortable if they they're happy. It's not about that. It's about surviving. They're surviving. They're not living. And the codependent has a chance to live. And in the meantime, the codependent for years, if they're not fixing what the problem is, if they're not aware, I know people who married narcissists, divorced, and married the narcissist again. They were attracted to this animal. The other person didn't do it for them. They were dating. They said, "This person loves you. This person is nice to you. this per it's really good for you this but it did it just didn't click >> right it's like they want the bad boy >> they want that right they want it because they can't see themselves living with it's boring >> what what other types of personalities do you encounter that are challenging you're mentioning we're talking a lot about uh you know relationships of people and we're talking about you know codependency and narcissism >> what about angry people what about people that are BPD border borderline personal disorder. How does that all fit into the Because I feel like whenever you meet people in general in a community, right? Like I always like to use the example of a shul. You have a million of people, 10 people. You're going to have a narcissist. You're going you're going to have every the guy that puts away the form, the guy that speaks, the guy that shushes, you know, you have it all. >> So, what other type of personalities are there to be aware of? If you can take Z back up a little bit, let's not focus so much for now on the narcissist or the, you know, codependent person. What other personalities are there to be aware of? So here's the thing which is more um it's more safe is the people with mental illnesses. People with mental illnesses there is a diagnosis you can get medication you can pretty much be controlled. There are people with bipolar or whatever mental illnesses they have and they're executives of businesses. They are intelligent a lot of them and they can check into a psychord if they need to. These people I'm not so afraid of. >> You're saying every other personality trait >> could be diagnosed in the if it's a mental illness. See a psychopath considered a mental illness. >> So that's the thing. This guy does not walk around with an elephant nose. This person is a genius >> at hiding it and people love that person. And while you're sitting over there tortured, you're seeing hundreds of people like other people love them and they're attractive and they're they're they're the life of the party. And you're looking at yourself, you're asking questions like, "What's wrong with me? Why am I trying to be the am I'm trying so hard and I can't do anything in the world to win over this person and this person doesn't give me the time of the day? Doesn't even look at me. Gives me the silent." You have to understand that person the narcissist knows a codependent so well that it's not even funny. The the narcissist learns the other person and it understands spend some time with you and figures out exactly what makes you tick and takes it away and gives it when it's needed. The pain is is unbearable. So again, so I understand what you're saying about mental illness in general because that's labeling certain things, but what about not mental illness? Let's say for example, someone who has anger issues, right? >> A negative person, right? You know, these are the kind of people, let's say, for example, I don't want to hang out with someone negative, right? >> Right. >> What other personalities do you feel like are are to be aware of, to be weary of >> now? all these these uh if you can stay away from these people then it's not dangerous. You have to understand if they don't grab your mind and they run around the block with it. That's the that's the person is angry person is a negative person. You sit there long enough till you decide you know what this guy is not letting me grow is bringing me down and I'm going to have to uh take a backseat. Whatever the case is, you make yourself, you know, these are things that you you're you you're not letting these things come into your life. You're in charge, but it's not like your life has been taken over by it. It's not like you're ruminating all day and all night thinking about that person. I see. So, it's anger is a problem and there's a million other problems. But again, we will not change another person. We can only change ourselves. So, it comes to time, you have to make a decision. You have to take responsibility. You have to say this relationship has not worked for me. >> I see what you're saying. So in regards to what I was asking, what you're basically saying is any other personality that you see as a negative, you instinctively stay away from. >> Correct. >> However, a narcissist sucks you in. >> Sucks you in. >> That's really the challenge. Okay. >> It becomes it becomes like an addiction. >> Let's go a little bit deeper into this for a second. So I have a narcissist spouse. >> Yeah. >> And it is what it is. You're saying there's no way to get through to them. Is there is there there is a book on this, right? I think is a pretty popular >> There's a bunch of books, >> right? But there's a there's a pretty popular one. Someone mentioned on the podcast once, I forgot the name. Is there one that you recommend? The one that >> I mean there's a lot of them, but uh it's complicated. You have to be very much into it. There's a lot of a lot of books. Yeah. >> Okay. Not one specific say you recommend. Um >> so, so you're living with a narcissist. How do you get through to them? How do you change something, make positive change within your relationship? It's very tough. It's a very very tough life. And the only thing you can change is yourself. >> Is there you said this before >> there's a way how you start looking at this situation. >> Yeah. You see, awareness is the first step in healing. Which means that if you know, if you already see a pattern and you know how this person is going to behave, you have kids and you have an entire family and you're not ready to leave. It's your work. You're not going to get any work from that side. >> Is is the question for you because you have a lot of experience specifically on this topic. Does the narcissist know they're a narcissist? They're first of all there's they don't believe that there is such a thing as narcissism. They think it's a scam. >> Mhm. >> They think therapy is a scam. The whole thing is a scam. So they don't believe it. It's made up. So because they have no introspect because this is the way they live. This is their norm. They have no idea what it means to feel another person, to to to hold another person, to to make another person feel seen. And they don't want to be seen either because by you shutting off your feelings, you're subhuman. You're no longer human. You just go through the the day and the night and you do your thing and that's it. They look at life as doggy dog. >> Wow. Okay, let's go back. Yeah. >> Joe. Um, what' they call you when you were younger? It wasn't Joe. >> No, it was Yontiff. My name is Yont. Yeah. Yeah. >> Is it Yanti? >> You have more than Yontiff or is >> Yontiff Lipman? Yasf. >> Wow. Okay. So, Yanti. >> Yanti. Yanti. That's the Yiddish name. As a kid, my English name is Yasf. It's Joe. >> As a kid, you were Yanti. >> Yanti. >> And you went to >> You like how I said that? Not. Thank you. >> And uh you were in the Sur community. You had siblings. Yeah. >> Brothers, sisters. >> Yeah. I have one brother and one sister. >> One brother, one sister. Beautiful. And um you grew up in an environment of >> Yeah. very much. Yeah. >> You're not learning English till a certain age. >> No. No. Right. Yeah. And and when we started was one hour a day, >> right? And that's the minimum. Yeah. and very little I'm imagining very little working on yourself more working on Torah and >> which is important don't get me wrong but >> I I'm curious then >> it's all it was was all about Gimura and stuff like that >> of course where's your parents from where where >> they're also from Satma they're from Hungary Romania they coming from yeah >> got it so they grew up also yeah >> in that world >> got it okay um anything that you can recognize as a child when you were growing up that you recognize your own personality or others personalities. I'm curious like I was 8 years old and something h like I'm curious when you because you have this innate personality that you recognize emotions >> right >> and it must have been somewhere as a kid it didn't just happen you know as an adult it had to happen when you were younger that first recognition of personality for yourself or others tell me about that if you can >> so I didn't have any major trauma or something like that that I can remember and I had very good parents we had a house and we had there was a roof over our head we always had food and I pretty much had a had, you know, had a pretty decent childhood. But it was a factory. I got to tell you, it was a factory. It was it was you were a number. You came into this big school and um it was a system, you know, a system in place. And I don't remember one rebi put their hand around me, you know, to have a personal relationship with the rebi. I hardly saw a rebi smile. It was all about learning, going home, coming nothing. There was no relationship. There was no um there was there was a big emphasis has been put on learning, learning, learning, learning. That's all it was. And I grew up and I was just my nature. My nature, my type of a nature is I was a person with empathy. I was a person with feelings, with emotions. And I had a couple of good friends. Um, but when I grew up, when I got older, I don't know. I was like I looked outside. I wanted a little bit of different life for myself. >> How old was this when you started recognizing this? >> Well, I was like 15 16 years old. >> Okay. So, you started being a teenager. >> Yeah. But I wasn't rebellious. I stuck around. I was there till till until I got married. I was in yeshiva. >> And this is interesting to me because you you're you didn't experience a major trauma that happened, right? No. Um, you didn't feel the emotion of the hand around you, but you also didn't necessarily feel the hand on your face either. >> Right. Right. >> So, it was just [clears throat] part of the process. >> Right. Right. I went through the system, >> but when I But something didn't I I didn't connect. I didn't connect. I needed a little bit more. >> Tell me more about that. go back to your teenage self because it's very interesting to me someone like you who's dedicated his entire life to the struggle, >> you know, to understanding personalities and working with them. It's >> at 15 years old, you're thinking about it. Are you doing a puzzle in your room? Are you reading? Are you looking out the window? What happened to you? Tell me about that process. >> I mean, it was just all those things like you said. I wasn't rebellious. I wasn't rebellious, but I I I felt I needed more. I didn't have enough. What' you do >> while I was a while? It was just like what everybody else was doing. >> So you felt it but you kept doing what? >> Yeah, I kept doing I had a very good relationship with my mother >> and so I wasn't rebellious. I couldn't rebel. You know I didn't go away. I didn't go and all the yeshivas. I didn't go I didn't do all these things. >> Well, you have to attribute at least you know that to your parents, right? And the fact that you just mentioned that you had a relationship with your mother. What did your mother teach you? What what >> she she was like she she made me she saw me you know she understood me. she saw me uh she was encouraging me all the time and she teach me about life you know she was telling me that this is what life is all about you know it's standard stuff but but I felt seen by her and um yeah she encouraged me for the future and she was positive you know she was doing these type of things and then um I got married and it was a sh it was not uh there was no dating there was >> at what age did you get married >> 20 >> at 20 yeah when you You mean you were introduced to somebody? >> Yeah. You didn't know? >> Yeah. Didn't know. It was just sitting together for a very short period of time and we talked and we knew the families from both sides >> and the families did the research, >> right? >> And like any other good family. >> Yeah. >> Mas you're engaged. Yeah. >> Got it. >> So, but but but you have to understand another thing. um in that community in that environment the key to freedom and I'm saying freedom I mean driving a car having your own apartment and being your own person even when you go to shul you're a different person when you are married to even though if you're 25 years old but if you're still a ber you looked on a little bit different than an 18-year-old who just got married so there is a drive to get married over there everybody Everybody wants out. Everybody wants. So the key to freedom is to get engaged and all of a sudden the next day you're sitting in a car and you have your own apartment and you have your own opinion and you can go out and do work and you can make a business. So uh like everybody else, I also wanted to get married. >> Awesome. So take take me through that. You're 20, you get engaged, you get your freedom. By the way, interesting perspective. I never heard that. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's clearly that feeling of freedom. Not stump. It's like uh because you're a different person. You have to watch the way you you talk and the way you dress and the way you you can't express yourself, >> right? And you could be 18 and get that freedom once you be 18 and then there is a 24 year old who's trying to be in the system. It's uh >> that's fascinating stuff. >> So at 20 years old, you finally got your freedom, so to speak. Not that you didn't have some of it, you had a good upbringing. >> So what did you do with that freedom? >> Just I was excited, you know. I was excited to be my own person. But uh I was there for a while and then um I decided that this is not for me because I can't say that I was happy as a child in school and and the environment which is if it works for people great you know um there's nothing negative to say but for me it didn't work. So I had the ability being married I had the ability to pick myself up and move. That's what the freedom that's what you're getting. That's the freedom that you're getting. And that's what I did. And listen, there is a price to pay. You're leaving a community. You're going out. You're getting you're putting your kids into a different environment. You don't know what's coming. You see, uh, in that community, when a child is born from the bris till he's dead, he knows exactly what's going on. It's predictable. He even knows which plot in the cemetery where he's going to be. you go out of there, you don't know what's going to be. You don't know what's the way the kids are going to go, which direction. You don't you're open to ideas. So, there is a price to pay and there's also his guts to do it. And um and that's what I did. I moved out and I started, you know, 20 years old, you're a baby, 25, 30. I started looking and growing and searching and yearning and listening to speeches and and you know I was like you know going around and uh wanted to find myself while this was happening I noticed that I'm getting into relationships which are unhealthy for me and for years I was fighting the narcissist you know I was like why is this not working it must be them it must be this that's where I learned the term narcissist and I build this up that this is not right and the world it's not fair life is not fair you know it took me a while and then I found out you know what it's true there are people who will shut their feelings off there are people like I said before angry there are people all kinds of people but the problem is here and I need to know what the problem is why am I attracted to this why am I going from a business relationship to another relationship or to a family problem or why am I always there and I'll be honest with you I'm still struggling with even though I'm at a place where I teach about it and I my cup has over you know my co I I can teach now but you know what sometimes I find myself wow that I fall back can't believe after so many years knowing every detail that this person got it you know this person did it to me >> it's almost like an addiction >> an addiction I will 100% say that this codependency is an addiction and the cure for this is the cure for this addiction is self-esteem it is the 12step program which is connecting to a higher power surrendering to Hashem which is huge for me this is a big part of my life is that I found Hashem and I want to go back to this idea that I told you before that we used to learn and all these Hashem was not mentioned the way I know Hashem now I found Hashem later in life by myself I had to find I always became about Shiva on my own nobody has taught me this type of Hashem but this is called surrender this is connection this is a next level and this is how I live and this is what I teach people that without this don't even start because if it's good for the 12step program and all they're doing in this meetings is they're talking about a higher power and they're talking about surrendering giving up control because don't forget codependency is also control codependency means I want you to like me the narcissist also wants to control but it's all about control. So when I found myself started to like with the introspect really understanding was this slavery of running after another person. How can I get out of it and then you bring in Hashem into your life? You're off to the races. >> I got to go through the process with you if you don't mind. I like breaking it down because absolutely you know I think that we have obviously like both of us we have a huge audience of different ages and different groups and I always love that we have the opportunity to have the 20, 25, 30 year olds that are starting their life and doing that work that they can hear this, they can recognize. Exactly. Get the insight. So that's why I want to figure this out with you. First of all, when you were 20, what did you do for work? >> I was um I'm the third generation in the flooring business. >> Okay. >> So my grandfather was in the business, my father was in the business. I'm in the business. >> So automatically Yeah. This is this is part of, you know, part of the, you know, you do what your parents do and stuff like that, but I'm a big proponent of being creative and going away and doing other things. And I was always I always wanted to do other things also. So, I dabble in real estate. I do I do a few things. I'm always open for ideas, but this is the bread and butter. Yeah. >> So, you got into the flooring business and you're working. Did you find what your talent was in terms of working-wise? Because you never really went to school for anything, >> right? Well, I'm super sal. >> Got it. So I was good at bringing in jobs and organizing and um yeah I was >> hunting new business. >> Yeah. Yeah. Was very creative and a very you know Yeah. >> So you're going through you're going through that process. You're you're hunting for business. You're growing. You're starting to make money. You're being dependent on your own. Right. I >> I really want to break it down and understand a person that is working on themselves and recognizing the emotion of needing to please others which I think that a little bit is ingrained in most of us. You know when I asked you percentages wise earlier about narciss >> I think the concept of pleasing others I think most of us have. I mean it's just personally this is the way I >> think we have it. Yeah. >> Right. Like you know it makes us feel good. You know you help somebody. I mean I remember you know years ago I heard about a study being done. You want to be happy, help others. Like, okay, thank you. Like just >> but we have to make this distinction. I mean, you know what they say that when you give suka, it does more for the giver than for the taker. That's true. I still want to please and I'm still want to be a good person and I I would give a compliment if I can uplift somebody. It's all nice and dandy. But now there is a balance when it comes to a you know when you go overboard when you make that extra you know the extra turn and you do this a person has to know where the fine line is from being a good person should always be a good person but not [clears throat] people pleasing. People pleasing is is drowning. It's great a great way of saying it by the way. And in my head, I'm thinking like, you know, you're with your kid and you're spending time with him and then your friend has a flat tire and you're running to help your friend with a flat tire. Like, what are you doing? >> You know, so that's a practical everyday thing. So, you're going through your life in your 20s and you're you're when did you decide or how did it happen that you started getting involved in mental health? What what transpired in your life that you started recognizing it? And one of the things that I want to focus on in this conversation is how do you find selflove? Where do you and this is a challenge that I personally have and it's something that I want to explore which is when you're by yourself and it's lonely and it's quiet and you're not feeding off other people's energies. >> Correct. >> That's the time that I want to focus on how do I find that self-love or awareness and I'm curious about your journey. take me through that process of how you entered into that world and what you >> so so what happened is that um like I said before it was it was very painful the relationships that I got into and the ideas that I had how life is supposed to be it I was hitting a wall one wall after the other because every one of us have an illusion and a vision of how life should be and reality kicked in and Life is not the way you want to be. Life is life and you have what you want. The pain was unbearable. So I went and I, you know, it comes a point and this is a gift from Hashem that I had. Then I went for help and I went for therapy and I went and I looked and I searched and I studied and I read and I do I did everything in the world to make to get some peace some I didn't have I I I lived with anxiety while I had money and while I had a house and while I had a car and I was in the middle of raising these kids I'm in the middle of raising myself. It was painful stuff, but I was I had this gift from Hashem that, you know, instead of going to the bottle or numbing my pain or doing what a million other people are doing and I did what you're supposed to do, I grind through it. I went through therapy and I faced it and I dealt with it. And then while I was searching and stuff like that, I found Hashem also. It was part of my journey. And to answer your question, how do you find self-love? How do you find yourself? How do you live a life of fulfillment, being content, and and not feeling lonely? Exactly. That is by incorporating Hashem in your life. You have to surrender. You know, I have my one of my mentors is Gdali Fster. You heard of Gdali Fster? that he always says this that again we're Jewish we're yen you can't be half pregnant ever heard somebody being half pregnant it's either you're pregnant or you're not so if you're eat and if you're Jewish you have to be all in you go to shul with a le of an not going to help me in much you can't be half pregnant >> right >> so this thing clicked in me and I decided said it, you know, if you're Jewish, if you're a yeid, you can't be a half a Yeid. First, the first step to be a yeided is you have to believe that everything is meant to be. Everything is from Hashem. All of a sudden, you give your life meaning. You give your life meaning. You look, you're not lonely anymore because you know you have Hashem. Whatever happens in your life, you are your roots and for Hashem's roots. You know, make your will Hashem's will. If you live with that, automatically things fly out of the window. You think about anything, any challenge you have in your life. If you're humble enough to accept the fact that this is what Hashem wants and I'm a Jew, all in. Nobody ever won this. >> I I feel like it's it's a it's a great approach. Yes. And I like it. >> Yes. >> What am I telling all my non-Jewish listeners? >> Okay. What the idea is that they also give life meaning in their own way. If you if you talk to non-Jews, whatever they whatever they belong, a person who lives with meaning, a person who surrenders to a higher power, let's call it a higher power like they call it in the rooms in the in the in the rehabs. That's the root cause of all addictions. Why are they talking about a higher power? What are they doing in the rehabs all day from 6:00 in the morning till 8:00 at night sitting together in circles and talking about surrender? Surrender what? Surrender your control. Understand that this world you came into this world 70 80 90 years and you want to control it. You will not win this game. You have to be the best person you can be. You have to makeadlas. You have to do whatever is right. You have an obligation to do it. You can't sit home and wait money to come in from the window. There's a system to this madness. But also, you have to surrender. And surrender is the key because when you surrender, you're not lonely anymore. As a matter of fact, you become grateful. You count your blessings. All of a sudden, your mind is open for creativity. You go out. you radiate positivity and magnetically people want to be around you. So that lonely person all of a sudden in shul or the feels that that person didn't tell him chabas or whatever wants to say good chabas because what you're doing is you're like you're a different person right now. This is what helped me. It was pain. It was suffering and unfortunately without this nobody wakes up. If you have a smooth sailing more and less or you're oblivious to what's going on, you're not going to get there. But if you're if you're sick and tired of being sick and tired and you want to change your life, you examine yourself. How can I be better than yesterday? How can I be a better father? How can I be a better husband? How can I be a better person in business and stuff like that? You bring in Hashem because you surrender to the fact that I don't need to control everything. I don't need to I don't need it to be perfect. >> If you're a non-believer, >> yes, >> you the 12step program is not for you. Then I'm imagining trying >> all about spirituality, the 12step program. >> Right. So if someone's an addict and they're trying to get help and they go to rehab and they're an atheist, >> right? >> What do they do? They can logically try to say it's not good for my body. You know, if that works with you, you can you can try to find an angle logically to say, you know what, I want out of this. I don't know. I'm foggy. My wife doesn't like it. But it's not the same. You don't have that joy. You don't you don't love life. You don't love the trees outside. You don't appreciate what this is all about. If it works for you, great, >> right? >> But for me, it doesn't work. >> The idea of the 12th step or what you're saying in general is surrendering to a higher power. >> 100%. >> That's something that >> that's 100%. Now, everyone is addicted to something, >> right? >> Even though a person doesn't have to join rehab, but at home, he's addicted to his phone. Uh food is a huge addiction. But to conquer loneliness, to conquer uh to build self-esteem, you ask the million-dollar question, how do you build self-esteem? Everybody wants to build, you know, this Rabbi Tski g wrote 80 books. He said, I wrote about one subject 80 different times. It's all about self-esteem. He said when he till he was 40 years old, he and he had on the wall diplomas and and and and and but he didn't have any self-esteem. But how do you find the self-esteem? >> Break down self-esteem for me if you don't mind. Different than self-confidence, right? So it's not >> self-esteem is knowing what you bring to the table. You feel good about yourself. You walk you walk in like a g. You walk in this is who I am. I need me. I love me. I know what I bring to the table. You have this clear conscious that you you're getting up every day. You're doing what you have to do. It's you come in with a briefcase of of success but not somebody else told you. You told this yourself. So if you encounter a person who who is like you know I need you to validate me. Oh my god you have no self-esteem. You are now a slave to what this other person is going to think of you. Why is it different than a bottle? It's the same exact thing. >> Right? So, >> so in a marriage if two people if the wife has self-esteem and the husband has self-esteem it's the greatest marriage in the world the only problem in marriages is that one person is a drag to the other threatened jealous all these things come because there's no self-esteem but imagine both of them are pulling together both of them know who they are both of them know what they bring to the table and together they become one So, a a recipe for a healthy life. >> Correct. >> Let's let's talk about that for a moment. >> Uh, you know, as we're getting older and we're growing in in the world, >> what would what would you say would be that recipe? I'm I'm picking up on a lot of things that you're saying, right? So, one of it, of course, is surrendering and >> recognizing a higher power. >> 100%. >> Right. That is a a very big antidote of living a healthy life. >> Correct. >> And the I think the other one would be uh working on your self-esteem. >> Correct. Does does it make sense to say that those two things are the key to a successful life? >> The only things the working on yourself are we are on a self-improvement journey our entire lifetime. Every day we have to ask ourselves am I better today than yesterday? Am I dignified today? Am I doing the right thing? Did I help another person? Did I make a difference? what you're doing in your podcast, you're making a difference. You're a giver. You're giving to people. Maybe someone is going to listen to something. Maybe there's a person somewhere in the boondocks who is going to listen to something that's going to make one little. So, so you don't even know. I used to say I used to read books from Rabbi Tski. I read his books about forgiveness. And I at that time I had a big issue with the forgiveness and he died later. I'm like, he died not even knowing that he made a difference in my life just just by putting out a book. So, he lived an authentic life. He lived a life with meaning. Whether he knows it or not was not important. He felt good knowing that I put something out there because there's a guy over there in a corner that I don't even know that made a difference. So, self-improvement is is a journey that is never ending. There is no timeline. And there's no I'm 60 years old, I'm fine now. I accomplished. Forget about it. That's not what life is all about. But if you don't bring in Hashem in your life, if you don't live with this idea of, you know, self-esteem on one side and crazy humble on the other side. I am grateful that I have gas in the car. I am grateful that I my brain is telling my feet when to break when the red light is here. I'm grateful there is police and there's ambulances. Everybody, everything is here to protect me. I'm grateful for the grass. I'm grateful for everything. So, as soon as you're in your self-improvement journey, you're going up. All of a sudden, you're grateful. All of a sudden, you you want to do something good to another person. It's it's it's a the other way is the same thing. If you're a selfish person, all of a sudden you're talking to all of a sudden you're jealous. All of a sudden, you have an when someone is is is falling apart. this you heard this business is gone. He this guy was here and he's here now. Oh, you don't want to even go there. So clearly if you bring Hashem into your life, it transforms you that your wife, your kids, people around you will not recognize you. And it's okay. It is okay to fall and it is okay to have a past. It really doesn't matter. It matters now today. What do you want to do? Do you want to live a peaceful life? You want You want calm. You want to make this life again because some people make it again. I know people who live in this life and it's again ganam in this world. They don't need to go to the other. This is it. They're dead. They're miserable and all they see is uh negative and negative. You can do it. >> You spoke about first of all, thank you for all your insight. It's really I'm appreciating your clarity and the way you're breaking it down and um >> clearly you've been doing this for a long time. >> Yeah. >> You you you mentioned it before you struggled a little bit with forgiveness. >> Yeah. >> I want to touch upon that for a second because I believe that >> is a very big key to so much that's happening in the world today with challenges and there's >> Yeah. >> There's a there's a huge um push now for making peace between families and people that have challenges. There's a >> you know shalom for Charlotte. Yes. heard of that before. >> Tremendous. Tremendous. >> A huge, huge thing. A huge topic. >> When I think of forgiveness, I'm thinking I should forgive the guy for a personality trait that he or she has, >> right? >> That didn't change, which means I'm forgiving them for stealing from me, let's say, but they can steal from me again, >> right? >> How do you how do you address that? How do you >> So, so the way I look at it, and I actually had um I I I I I spoke about this. It's called I'll rather be smart than being right. And you have to live by this because in family dynamics there's sometimes uh you know problems, friction and you're right. If you go to dentoa you're right. If you go to court you'll be right. If 10 people sit down and you tell them your story everybody's going to say you're right. But you can't deposit it in the bank. If this is going to cost you, if the price for this is going to be that you don't talk to your or you don't talk to one of your children, what do you have from being right? You have to be smart and then attach Hashem to it. Attach the fact that Hashem put this person into my life. Why? I don't know. But I sure am going to learn something from it. So let's say if you didn't sign a contract and that person, you know, stole money from you and this and that, what did you learn from this? How did I get away with that? How did that guy get away with it? What is wrong with me that I wasn't so thorough when it came to this contract? So not forgiving, you forgive that person. You see, we don't want to judge. I never judge. I don't want to be a judge because I don't want to be judged either. Hashem do his thing. You see, that's part of the surrender. You do you. I'll do me. I'll try to get my money out. I'll do whatever I can to make it work. And if it's not a rug, again, there's a there's a fine line. There's a balance. It can't be a rug to stand up for yourself. someone disrespect you, someone's disrespecting you, you you stand up and you have boundaries, you have healthy boundaries. But it comes a point that you want to be smart, not right, because people are going to be right for the rest of their lives, but they're not going to talk to their family or you're not going to talk to another person. So, it's it's working on yourself. Sometimes you you wouldn't believe how you can be somebody this person this this schul for Charlotte this these two that it is unbelievable what this person said because this person could have said you know what maybe he wasn't texting on the phone maybe he was speeding maybe he didn't look I I'm not looking for investigation I'm not interested I want to be smart I don't want to be right this is from Hashem he's Are you a ye or not? Are you are you are are you in or you out? This was meant to be. Don't ask me why because I don't understand 15 other things. It's very very sad. You should not know what this what this is. But this person meets such a kdish hashem saying I don't care. It's not going to come back. It's not nothing's going to bring this back. I'm going to go for shul it's for himself. You know sometimes there are people who are saying you know what I'm you but don't look at me don't I don't want to have anything to do with you nothing against you but stay away from me. He didn't say that he's sitting and learning with this person. It's amazing stuff. You overcame something. A human being went against his grain 100%. Our nature is to be angry. He took it. But again, if you really want to get into it, your children are not yours. That's why the foundation of connecting to Hashem is so big that your children are a gift for you. It's not yours. That's why I say when a person has children who are 20 years old, 25 years old and in his eyes or in the eyes of his community, they're not successful. What is this? A report card that I these are children are not mine. I was given a gift. I did the best I could. I was the best parent ever. I tried my best. Whatever you see, whatever the result is is not my is not my problem. In life in general, the results. You can work in a business and work and work and work and do the best thing you can do and the results are not where you want it. So what does it have to do with you? It's not your report card. You do you. You do whatever you can. The rest is up to Hashem. You live like that, you look at life differently. You don't there's no anxiety living like this. And it's not dumb. It's it's it's it's it's helping you. It's helping you living a calm and peaceful life. And everyone has beautiful things in their life that they can count and they can, you know, their blessings and stuff like that. It's a difference what the neighbor thinks. It's a difference what you think. That's the idea of the codependency. What's the difference is between you, you have a special relationship with Hashem. A big part of it is talking to Hashem every day. I do that. I do as brothers. I have a place here in Pomona where I walk and I talk to Hashem and I have a three-step beautiful uh way how I do this. >> Tell me more. >> And it works. It works. Awesome. What I do is I take 45 minutes to an hour >> every day. >> Every day. Let me tell you what it is. I don't stop my day without it. If I don't have it one day, then I feel something is missing. So let's say I'm in sales. I always say that I make the sales over there. That's where the sales start. Talk to Hashem about it. Then I go out to see customers. So what I do is every day I take 45 minutes to an hour and first I'm grateful grateful grateful for for the things that's happening now. Let's say yesterday I had this this there was a good customer but this whatever good stuff but I am grateful for every little thing. I'm grateful for my eyes. I'm grateful that I hear I'm grateful that I have teeth. I'm grateful that I have a house. I'm grateful that the the landscaper came today. little things that people will take for granted like stupid. I'm grateful that I got a lease on my car and I grateful the the most little I'm grateful for everything. I married off my daughter. I'm grateful for everything. I could make a I go into it. You can go nuts if you get into every little detail. I'm grateful that the flower showed up. I grab grateful that everything. So you go into that that puts you in a mood of like, oh my god, like you're abundant. I have a good life. Could have been worse. I'm grateful I'm not in jail. I'm grateful I'm not in the hospital. People are in the hospital. I walk on my feet. When I'm done with that, I'm I I am like I I do a certain cha type of thing, which is like I want to be better than yesterday. Maybe I spoke to maybe I maybe this maybe at least you know what I want to be a better person like help me become a better person. You know I I recognize that maybe yesterday I slipped here there tried not to but I did so at least whatever I did or I was not supposed to do I want to be better today. It's like a chua type of uh thing. And then the third step is I ask Hashem for what I want. But here's the thing. I don't ask him for another car, for a second home, for a vacation. I don't ask him for these things. I ask for things you can't buy with money. Give me your download your perception. I want when I make a decision, I want you with me. You see my podcast I don't do without Hashem. I ask Hashem when I do a podcast you come with me. You are my partner in this podcast. It's got to be successful because if you're there how is it going to look right? So I ask Hashem give me cycle give me das give me understanding let me connect with you because if I have that if I have a I ask for a you can ask for a you know said that the person says I'm going into the woods we have a pat I don't have what to say he says this is what you say I don't have what to say it's also good say this should be your first thing is I don't have I can't open my mouth. Then eventually you open your mouth. You talk for an hour. Sometimes I don't have enough time. I have more to say. I got to go. But the idea is for one hour you dedicate. This is besides doubling. Dining is beautiful. It's very nice and it's important. But this is something personal. You can speak in English, you can speak in Yiddish, you can speak in Hung, Hungarian, you can do whatever you want. But it's a special relationship that nobody knows and nobody should be there. This is private stuff. And sometimes if you have demons that you have to fight with, crazy thoughts that's coming into your head or you spill that right there. You know, I know it's wrong and I don't like it and I feel ashamed, but I need you. You don't drop me right now. I need you with me. You do. You do this every day. You come out a different person. Forget the 12step. [laughter] It's a new thing, guys. The three-step program. >> Three-step. I'm telling you, his brother does this is idea. >> This is every day. >> How long you doing this for? >> For years. >> More than two years. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I can't get enough of it. And I recommend it to everybody wherever I see. I >> I do have a good friend of mine, Ze Murmstein, who I'm going to call him out. He's our uh he's our super uh super fan of the week. >> Yeah. Um, Ze does this and uh he took me with him once and it was a very awkward situation like you go this way, I'll go that way. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, because it has to be very private. >> Yeah. No, he he was showing me the process, you know, what he does, where he goes, >> but it's next level. This his brother, this is a gift that talks about that is like whatever is going on in your life, sometimes you even if you're talking to professionals or whatever, there's certain things you can't talk to another person. You don't want to share it. You don't know if tomorrow a person is going to you have this this idea like I said we are all in. If you're all in build this relationship that helps for codependency you know the the secular world would look at me like I'm stupid like is this the cure for codependency? It is the cure for everything. If a person has a problem with chulias, if a person has any problem, even a child, they is go out and talk, pour your heart out, talk to Hashem and get out of the way. That's the most important thing because people are like, I spoke, where is the results, you know, uh, I want money and the business. That's not what this is all about. This is not a relationship. When you come in asking for something because you want something, you're not going to get it. you're not going to get it. >> I appreciate what you're saying. It's also a good timing. This is the time of L, the beginning of the year. This podcast is definitely going to be released in the next week or so. So, I'm going to make sure of it. >> Yeah. >> Um because the timing is right because I'll be honest with you, I grew up in an environment where you got to cry now and you got to ask forgiveness. You have to be fearful. >> And thank God I have uh someone I learn with on a weekly basis, Alex Cheruk. Shout out to you, Alex. >> Oh, sure. I had him on the podcast. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Alex the best. So, uh, yeah, you know, we we did this project at the lighthouse together. Yeah, of course. Been life changing. And >> we learned Joey Joey Rosen. >> Yeah. He's Joey Roosevelt is his rabbi. >> So, this so this week we were learning it and Joey was saying something that's I was so not used to. He was saying to ask forgiveness, not from a place of love, from a place of like you are God. You are the person that's going to help. And it's just it was mesmerizing for me like what there's a place of love during the month of L or during the time of you know forgiveness. What is what is the rashash? We I also grew up with this was fear in sh you used to to come to this rash was like you felt us in the air but what I learned from that rash is a happy time is we are voting for hashem the entire all these things comes from rash but the idea is you're actually pulling the lever you're saying to hashem I'm your god there's a half a world over here where are not We're yours. It's a It's not something that is uh you know it's the it's a time the progress report just like a business. You sit down and you're like is the numbers up the numbers down? Where are we slacking? What's going It is a time for that. But is like I'm I'm you. I vote for you. I'm your person. >> I love this. This is a great conversation to wrap up with because you know we're going to have Yam Kipper and Sukus. We're going to be off for a few days. Right. Right. So this is a good way to, you know, end the year and start the new year, which is a place of love, a place of >> understanding that God, you have my vote and therefore I know you have I have yours, you have mine. >> Correct? >> We're building a deep relationship. That's what it's all about. Building a deep relationship, but you're building it with something higher. You're building it with not with a human that can tomorrow turn around and and change their mind. It's it's flawed. >> I love it. I love it. We uh we spoke about the past, the present. What's your hopes for the future? >> Like I said, I want to become better and I want to make a difference and I want to see whatever I can do. You know, I'm looking forward. I'm very positive. >> What's that magic wand that you can, you know, wave and certain things will happen in this world to make it a better place? What what would that be? >> There is no magic wand. Um the way you look at it is you live day by day. You live day by day. You appreciate life. You look at life uh you know from a grateful from a gratitude point of view and you take it day by day and you let yourself be led. >> You let yourself be led. >> I like that. You know, go back to your 15-year-old self who's playing with that puzzle looking outside that window, >> right? >> What do you tell him? >> Listen, I wouldn't be here. I wouldn't be who I am if if this if I wouldn't have this journey. So I look at it this way. Everything was meant to be. I was born in that place. I grew up in that place. I moved on from that place. This is where I am at my age right now. And I just let Hashem do his thing. And I'm just here for the ride, but in a positive way. I am not resisting. I just let it go. >> I love it. Uh before we wrap up, do you have any questions for me? >> Um what is your motivation for the podcast? my where where where where's your fire? >> Um [laughter] for views um you know people ask me this a lot and um I've I've mentioned it a lot over the past few months which is it's a growthoriented idea of I feel like we all feed off each other and one thing that I've learned over the past few years is that we have a piece of God in each one of us and that's the energy that exude and that we connect through one another. What better way to grow knowing that thousands of people are growing with you and doing this with you in unison, >> right? >> I think that's my drive and you know, of course, it's a great marketing tool and you know, we mentioned the name Prime. By the way, we can mention your flooring business. That's >> Parkus Flooring. >> Park is Flooring. If you need any flooring done, right? >> Yeah. >> Okay. You know what? I We just had a leak in our house. I I can use new carpet in my room. Let's Let's get you going. There we go. You'll have one piece of business from this. But um you know so it's definitely a motivating factor of you know marketing and business development and it's nice to to have that you know >> but but you're looking for connection is what I hear. You're looking I I have a front row seat to self-development and growth in every aspect of life. Sitting here with politicians sitting here with you know music stars and sitting here with people who are just regular normal everyday people who are making a difference. So to me that means everything to I I I was excited to meet with you today knowing that I have a front row seat with Joe Farcus like oh my gosh I can hear from him what it means and I don't have to now listen to a podcast because this is it. >> Um so that to me is very very motivating and I and it it drives me to understanding. I mean like you said I'm I'm taking a page from your book >> and it's living that every single day and it's going through that journey and having this as a part of it to me is is unbelievable. >> It's beautiful. Beautiful. Is there anyone that you're trying to get on the podcast? Maybe we can go through them for him together. I mean, because one of my final questions is always like, you know, who would you recommend as a podcast guest, right? >> But [laughter] you're that guy that would get him yourself. So, I don't know. >> I'm I'm working on on Charlie Herreri. >> Okay. >> I want to get him. That's good. He's one of my Yeah. So, I'm I'm in talks with him. >> You know who I'm in talks with, by the way? His mother. >> Yeah. I spoke to his mother, too. Yeah. She's also She's a therapist. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. My question for her would be uh what did you do to have a son like that? >> Okay, I'm going to ask her that. But >> it's a good question. [laughter] Um yeah, but um >> and it's a it's a matter of your guests all share that same notion of the challenge and the growth, which is phenomenal. >> Life is a struggle. You're not going to get away from it. It's the question is how you look at it and you live and you learn. >> Joe, I'm living and I'm learning from you and I appreciate you. Thank you to all our subscribers again to all the comments. The Prime Source production team of course if you're a hotel, a hospital, nursing home, assisted living facility looking to cut your expenses, see one of the Prime Source expense advisors today. Thank you again for you Joe. I appreciate it. Happy New Year. >> Thank you. >> And going into this year filled with love and joy and looking forward to the next day is breathtaking for me. >> Thank you. Thank you. It was an honor. It was a real honor to be here. >> Thank you. I appreciate it's a rat. Thank you. >> Excellent. >> Thank you. I appreciate it. >> Yeah, it was